Blue Texan!

I didn’t watch FoxNews at all last night. Afraid I missed some comedy. Anyone catch their reaction?

It’s so delicious. hens home to roost - suck that one up, GOP!

these are the same people who voted for Pat Robertson
too much pork to think straight

Interesting quote from Left Coaster about the Obama/Lieberman connection.

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/

“If Sen. Obama’s supporters want to argue that he is more progressive than any Republican running for President - I agree wholeheartedly. Will he be a better President than any of the Republicans? Absolutely. What I have a problem with is that he is systematically undermining the foundations and icons of the progressive movement using Republican talking points - just like his mentor Joe Lieberman. There will be a high cost to pay if he continues down this trajectory and it’ll be too late to change this trajectory once he is in office.”

Re: Fox Noise.

Yeah, they were really bummed by both results. It was awesome. The only one who was half-way upbeat was Kristol, because he’s a Rudy guy and Romney losing is good for Rudy.

Yeah. IMO the R outcome is a lot more fun than the D outcome. Let the trash talk begin.

Hee, hee, hee!

My favorite result from the Iowa Caucus was that Fred Thompson did fairly well. He soooo wanted to quit but now he’s forced to stay in for a while longer.

Please read Digby before you get too damned shadenfreudy….

this is bad news for anyone who believes in the fossil record… heliocentrists should be wary as well.

I’m terrified he could actually win.

tthe worst subculture of rightwing extremists and religious fanatics may very well gain a mainstream audience and an influence over that audience that makes their current reach look trivial. Let’s not forget, folks, that the current “conservative movement” is traced to Goldwater’s landslide defeat.

Well, ya lose either way then. Might as well go fishin.

He soooo wanted to quit but now he’s forced to stay in for a while longer.

707!! Poor, poor Fred…

Isn’t the fossil record just a theory? *g

The Republicans are learning the meaning of “ya dance with them what brung ya.” They are finding out that those “easily led Religious Right types” are also the ones who actually are members of the NRA and use shotguns to encourage marriages when the no-good suitor tries to bug out.

Pass the popcorn.

I’m gonna enjoy hearing the Beltway elites deal with the Republican version of the man from Hope, long serving governor, and amiable off the cuff speaker. (Who also plays a musical instrument and knows all the words to any hymn sung.)

From tristero

religious fanatics may very well gain a mainstream audience and an influence over that audience that makes their current reach look trivial.

Whatever happened to sunshine being the best bleach?

For the Repugs:

Huckabee is counting on McCain to knock out Romney in NH. He’ll be happy to settle for third. Then he and McCain can duke it out in South Carolina, where, given all the evangelicals there, he thinks he can win.

For the Dems:

Heartland Dems are split between the Dem establishment and progressives.

Obama got the majority of: the women vote; those under 30; white women under 30. Which means, the Oprah strategy failed, at least in Iowa. It might work for Obama in South Carolina.

Hillary got the majority of women over 45.

If Edwards comes in third in NH, he’s more or less done, but I think he’ll hang in there till South Carolina.

The irony for me is that as an Edwards supporter, I might not even get to vote for him, since I live in MN. If it comes down to Hillary and Obama I don’t know what I’ll do. I might have to toss a coin. Not kidding.

my favorite reaction is here: great reactions in comments.

Hi, Blue Texan! Great post!

What, no “the King is dead! Long live the King!”

“I just can’t wait to hear from Peggy, Charles, Robert, Rushbo, and the rest of the wingnut Huck haters.”

I wonder what Karl’s “math” is telling him now…

Hi all
This from Time on Edwards win last night.
http://www.time.com/time/polit.....33,00.html

My 17 should read thus:

Hillary got the majority of women over 45. Which means, the Oprah strategy failed, at least in Iowa. It might work for Obama in South Carolina.

(Pining for that edit function…)

Whatever happened to sunshine?

Let’s not forget, folks, that the current “conservative movement” is traced to Goldwater’s landslide defeat.

I thought the “conservative movement” is traced back to Reagan and the “Reagan Democrats.” No?

Took me a few seconds to “get” your comment. *g*

I wonder what Karl’s “math” is telling him now…

Tellin’ him that the monster they created lives!

I was quoting Digby. far as I am concerned it started when the lily-livered democrats “lost China”.

:) I just don’t see a lot of it beaming in where it should be, my friend.

As for Edwards and Barack Obama:
Walters interview on Moyers: Why Black community has not embraced Obama.

BILL MOYERS: Well, I noticed that a lot of progressives are unhappy that Oprah’s endorsement has taken the spotlight off of Edwards, who has been the white candidate speaking the most consistently to issues that concern the inner city and other black issues, right?

RONALD WALTERS: And that’s interesting because John Edwards has really posed a very stark contrast. Because you would think that the African American candidate ought to be raising these issues. And yet the person who’s raising them is John Edwards.

I wonder what Novakula’s eating this morning.

Rush Limbaugh should be rather interesting today, given the shots that he’s taken at Huckabee. I hesitate to link to him, but it’s such a hoot to read or listen to that I couldn’t resist.

Here’s his opening salvo, after a caller tried to compare Huckabee to St. Ronnie:

Here’s my problem with this. I say this with all compassion, and I say this with love and respect for all of you who support Huckabee. But how dare you compare Mike Huckabee to Ronald Reagan. That is simply intellectually vapid, and it’s grasping at straws. Ronald Reagan not only served as a governor, but he wrote and spoke for years about conservatism. Ronald Reagan was there at the beginning in 1964 about conservatism. I said yesterday, I have not spent a lifetime advocating conservative principles only to throw them away to embrace a particular candidate. I don’t support open borders and amnesty. I don’t support the release of hundreds of criminals. McCain supports open borders and amnesty. Huckabee released hundreds of criminals. I don’t support repeated increases in taxes. I don’t support national health care, whether you call it a children’s program or whatever it is. I don’t support anti-war rhetoric. I don’t support Republican candidates trashing the war in Iraq when we’re winning it. I don’t support Republican candidates claiming the president doesn’t read the National Intelligence Estimates as an excuse for him not knowing what the hell is in one. And that’s Governor Huckabee.

It sure looks like the its the TheoCons vs the OtherCons in the GOP. ‘Twill be interesting to see how this goes down.

I think the “movement” as a mass phenomenon that actually wins elections dates to Reagan. As a top-down leadership structure rubbing their hands together and planning world domination while cackling maniacally, it dates to the Goldwater defeat.

You cannot get elected as a black in the United States unless you turn your back on black issues. Just the way you cannot get elected as a woman unless you turn your back on women’s issues. That’s why neither candidate has talked about those issues in this campaign.

The Republicans are learning the meaning of “ya dance with them what brung ya.”

I was thinking….”Lie with dogs, wake up with fleas”

crow. scary, huh?

Fascinating list from Rushbo. He declares he doesn’t support any GOP candidate’s positions that are against Republican orthodoxy.

I think this is more than opposing the pure theocon. I think it’s continuing to reinforce the voice of the hardcore base that’s preventing GOP candidates from distancing themselves from Bush (except about immigration, where the base already rejected Bush’s position.) I sure hope that continues for a long time in this campaign.

That’s no excuse for Obama. It’s his pattern of equivocating, talking of bipartisanship, not showing up for major votes, or defending Dodd on the FISA fight. To say, outright that neither Jena Six or New Orleans are not racial issues, is flying in the face of the Dem majority of this country. Or that social security is not being framed by Republikans to their own liking. It smells more like Lieberman than a race thingy.

Blood, as usual, I’d guess.

Shorter Rush: And Huck never told us whose shirts he wears!

Apparently we’ve refound China. They now own our debt.

Any firy editorials written by the vampire as of late? Or is he still eating breakfast.

I’m on a diet. I can only stomach about one Novak column every few months.

Another thing I’m enjoying is that some repub lives are going to be hurt this election cycle. Guilianni and Thompson might as well have “Loser” tattooed on their forehead. Rudy, especially, was respected (gag) before this began. That’s not going to be the case a few months from now. It’s going to effect his speaking fees. And if there’s a God, he’ll be hurt financially.

One thing is clear on both sides from Iowa (and maybe for the rest of the country): the younger generation (those under 30) wants change (in whatever form that might take) in the US. FWIW: According to several stats and a few articles published in recent years, Americans under 30 are supposed to be the most ethnically diverse group in the world.

Maybe another Christians and lions era.

I agree that Obama’s fallen far short on issues not involving race. All talk, no action. I just meant to put the racial (women for Hillary) part of the issues into a separate bucket for them. And also to serve as a warning to blacks & women that they shouldn’t vote for O or H on the expectation that their issues will get the attention they deserve. Race & gender would be off the screen under the O & H administrations, I think.

We might think about how we can help reach the under 30s. (What letter generation are they?) Some change is better than others.

thought you might like this

Mukasey announced today that he’s appointing Chicago federal prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald to the Attorney General’s advisory committee of U.S. attorneys.

Fitzgerald was on the committee from 2001 until 2005, but his appointment to it preceded his service as special prosecutor in the Valerie Plame CIA leak investigation….

Gonzales… did not re-appoint Fitzgerald to the advisory panel, which counsels the attorney general on law enforcement issues.

There’s also a measure of Rush trying to preserve his own base of listeners. He doesn’t want to lose his status as The Definer of What Conservatives Believe ™, especially to the TheoCons like Dobson and Co. The clash of the Right Wing Media titans is a part of this discussion as well. A Huckabee string of victories will only embolden the TheoCon radio/tv folks, and Rush doesn’t want to go down with Mitt, Rudy, and the rest if Huckabee wins the nomination.

Fitz!

Yea, Mao and Uncle Ho are laughing it up big time in the big mausoleum in the sky!

Hey, that is cool! Got link?

It’s over at TPM.

Yesterday morn I watched Edwards being interviewed on CNN by John Roberts(?). Roberts asked “why do you want to investigate the oil companies irt the price of oil? That price is determined by the market, not by the oil companies.” Edwards sort of chuckled and said that an investigation would determine if that were so. I wanted to scream. Roberts really reminds me of Ted Baxter. Totally clueless.
Well, that’s why I want Edwards. He sees the evil, greedy, machiavellian bastards for what they are. I fear that Obama does not.

Thanks!

Re: Fox Noise.

Yeah, they were really bummed by both results. It was awesome. The only one who was half-way upbeat was Kristol, because he’s a Rudy guy and Romney losing is good for Rudy.

I’m bloody disappointed bloody Kristol didn’t suffer more over this, but is just the beginning of the primaries.
heh heh heh :)

More than that:

BILL MOYERS: What’s he not talking about that concerns them?

RONALD WALTERS: Some of the very hot button issues. For example, he has issued statements on the Jena Six, but he’s not been there. Housing foreclosures going on all across the country– hitting blacks the hardest, we don’t hear that in this campaign. We don’t hear a lot of things about the fact that what we’ve got now is half of everybody who is locked up in America is black. We ought to hear something about the fact that a million blacks are in jail right now.

BILL MOYERS: In fact, I read this the other day, Dr. Walters, that in Iowa, which is we think of as an essentially white state, blacks are arrested about13 1/2 times more frequently than whites

And:
BILL MOYERS: There’s a black progressive site. It’s called BlackAgendaReport.com. And I went to it this morning. And the editor of that site took both Obama and Oprah to task and I’m quoting for a three-state weekend extravaganza of vapid, substance-devoid entertaining posing as presidential politics. I mean, he goes on to say political theater has devolved to theater without politics. Do you agree with that?

RONALD WALTERS: Yes. I agree with that.

Conclusion: Obama enjoys the company of fundraisers more than he does his colleagues or activists or his actual job.

(What letter generation are they?)

Gen Y, I think…straddled with the Millennial Generation (those born between 1980 and 2000).

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.co.....e_tha.html
original article

My 58:

should be: the tail end of Gen Y…straddled with…

Cspan now reporting Edwards came in second in Iowa with 30% to Hil’s 29%. Obama with 38%.

Obama wants to join hands with Big Oil and end the acrimony. He wants to join hands with the health insurance companies, the defense contractors, the GOP base, etc, to focus on “what unites us”. The problem is that you CANNOT make treaty with people who absolutely refuse to give any ground ever. You cannot find common cause with people and entities that will not budge on any position or that use a take no prisoners approach to politics.

I don’t want to join hands with ANYONE on the “other side of the aisle”. I want to slap their Grimma Wormtongue craws away and lock them out until EVERTYTHING they’ve wrought these last few decades has been completely rolled back. Pretend the GOP doesn’t exist and just ram through Democratic (real Democratic) bills and issues while totally blowing off the Lieberman wing of the Democrats and the entirety of the GOP. I just don’t see Obama as the man that can or will do this. He wants to make nice and chat about shit rather than do what’s necessary. NO COMPROMISES WITH THE DEVILS!

Agreed.

I like that CNN is flagging a Thank you, Iowa message across their screen this morning. All of America [the globe?] needs to be thanking Iowa. Voting is in, sheeple is out….

~ Prairie, morning after

Over at the wnyc comments page, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of love for Obama. Some favorable comments, but several unfavorables (other than mine, that is).
http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/e.....ents/91335

” He sees the evil, greedy, machiavellian bastards for what they are. I fear that Obama does not.”

or that Obama is so naive in addition to being too clever by half that he’ll become one of them mighty quick. I think Obama is too young and inexperienced and has a fragile ego, lacks genuine humility that comes with experience and failure.

Here Here! Scathing review of Obama from blackagendareport.com

Obama is, of course, a media and money phenomenon - both corporate derivatives. In that sense, his rise is only different in degree from the proliferation of “media leaders” that have taken the place of real organizers in Black America - and of former organizers who have held on to name recognition by becoming media leaders, running from camera to camera in between their radio shows. Nothing lasting, organizationally, can possibly emerge from their performances.

Obama’s hook-up with Oprah Winfrey was perfectly logical. Both are famous, unthreatening media celebrities with huge white followings. They compliment each other, and achieve the same effect of mesmerizing fame-struck Blacks and soothing the fears of whites - placebos for both sorely afflicted groups.

Hmm, I don’t know. LBJ got a lot of good done because he was able to cobble together enough from both sides. I’m sympathetic to the “kick their asses and make them say uncle” attitude, but there’s something to be said for gamesmanship. It’s worked before.

Still think the Obama win was engineered by Repubs posing as independents cause Repubs know he’s much weaker than Hil.. Wait and see.

That is terrible! What is a big fat-ass cowardly bag of flatulence to do?

Well when I think of Obama, I am reminded his mentor HoJoe was primed by Buckley to defeat Lowell Weicker. Not that Hillary comes close to Weicker, but Edwards on the other hand . . .

that is what KKKKKRove has been up to imo

lacks genuine humility that comes with experience and failure.

Very nicely put, and something I hadn’t thought of.

Obama’s hook-up with Oprah Winfrey was perfectly logical.

I’ll never forget that clip of Oprah (on Bill Moyers Journal) going after that young woman for even *suggesting* there might not be any WMDs in Iraq.

Still think the Obama win was engineered by Repubs posing as independents cause Repubs know he’s much weaker than Hil..

Anecdotally, I know people who are Republicans who like Obama. Sometimes it’s not jujitsu.

specially the failure part…it is humbling cept for chimpie

Hi Everyone - Happy New Year (late) I have been deep under with writing. Any congrats to the Dems last night (I’m an Obama fan and Hilly fow so esp happy with no. 1 and 2).

I have a couple thoughts on this: Jane was spot on yesterday with her comments on Hucky vs Edwards charisma/appeal. One clear reason the Huckleberry did well is that he is articulate, engaging, and personable - so if one doesn’t know who/what he is he is viable candidate that plus the concentrated work the evangels are willing to put into various campaigns -political and otherwise cannot be overlooked.

At the same time, as Rachel Maddow noted last night on MSNBC Obama’s win is a ground breaking moment in American history. Here race clearly trumps gender as a force for breakthrough and positive change. Like Bill Clinton he conveys both a certain tabula rasa and mirrored persona (blank slate - you fill in the blank of what you want and he is seen to have it; mirrored meaning that you look at him and you seem to see bits of what you see in yourself-the every man/person). And he is smart - you don’t get to be Law Review without.

In some ways what is striking here is that both Huffy and Bama share all 4 qualities I note above. Both are personable and articulate and both convey a certain blank slate and mirrored persona.

Watch possibly for a new push by/for Bloomberg in light of last night. As I noted before, the neocons DO NOT want a candidate (Dem or Rethug) who is not going to commit to continuing NE war for the long term. By adding Bloomberg to the mix (another articulate, personable, tabula rasa, mirrored persona) jis function will be to serve as a spoiler though if Huffy continues to play out this is less likely because he will probably pull Republicans away from him than Dems from Bama. I also think MSM soon will begin to attack Huffy and put out dirt. No way they want him there.

I hate the sort of premise that so-called bipartisanship seems to be derived from. It’s like we can actually form a coalition with people who want to destroy everything progressives stand for from FDR’s legacy, to civil rights to everything else.

Ah a nice after breakfast treat…..watching the loser Neo-CONS eat themselves. Couldn’t happen to a more deserving bunch.
Hey Miss Piggy Rover supporters, What kind of genius is unka Karl now?
LMAO

There are lots of republikans who genuinely like Lieberman as well.

W has never failed, in his own mind.

Re: race and Obama:

He has said that his race is part of his identity but he’s not defined by it. The problem is: that’s not really an adequate explanation for his eliding racial issues in his campaign. As an African-American, I was initially excited by his candidacy when he first declared. But then I abandoned him for Edwards when he started his faux pas… It was quite clear to me that Edwards is the only candidate out there who is focusing on poverty, a major issue for me.

with all her power and might she really is a big gasbag and gave us another flimflam gasbag DR. PHIL uggggggggggggggggggg

Hmm, I don’t know. LBJ got a lot of good done because he was able to cobble together enough from both sides.

Yea, stroll down to the Wall and look at all the good he did.

LBJ got a lot done because he was a horse trader, a son of a bitch and more than a bit of a bully. And he always got at least something of what he wanted or there was no deal. Back to lurking.

I can’t tell you how hard I laughed. Huckabee won and Guliani got beat by crazy Ron Paul. Wow pay back is a bitch to the GOP. As have they reaped now have they sown. How is that working out for you Karl?

She’s too stuck on her own Hallmark card hubris to see the light of day without the rosy Aaron Spelling lense she’s probably wearing.

hahahahahahahaha

Both are personable and articulate and both convey a certain blank slate and mirrored persona.

The latter is very important. As I hear what people are saying about Obama this morning, most are writing their personal desiderata onto his persona. It’s the advantage of being a blank slate.

he aint so blank…loves him some Jomentum

I read that Richardson’s people moved as a bloc over to Obama. Wonder what Richardson’s thinking was….oh yes to keep his hope alive by defeating Hill.

Heh! Maybe as part of the “reach around” that Obama wants us all to go along with he could appoint Lieberman as Sec of State or SecDef! Or even offer him as a SCROTUS possibility!

I saw Edwards firsthand and he’s personable and articulate as well, not to mention extremely handsome.

Since Jimmy Carter, no winner of the Iowa caucus has gone on to win the candidacy, according to a guest on wnyc.

The Talibangenicals will not be offered a seat at the table even if Huckabee goes the distance and is the nominee… one of their number who is “acceptable”, like perhaps Preznit Cross Carrier will be the intermediary between Huck and the corporatists horrified at the prospect of liver being on the menu, said intermediary will deliver the word to the Huck campaign “you can stand on their backs, but they get no invitiations to the party after the Dance” and “them’s the facts of political life”.

Mark my word, if Huckabee wins New Hampshire and South Carolina and is annointed with the “big MO”, it’s gonna get ugly out their.

Please pass the popcorn.

I wonder if after McCain drops out (if he does0 Lieberman transfers support to Obama and then Obama will be dramatically influenced by LiarJoe. That would make me very unhappy.

Could you consider that maybe after all that has gone down with LIEberman that Obama could change his mind about Holy Joe? Let’s see.
All this joementum talk is looking an awful lot like a Taylor Marsh meltdown.

Oh the horror … Viquerie pronounced Huck ”a christian socialist” better yet RNC Chair didnt mention his name when commenting on the race… Tee hee

I’m surprised by this talk & haven’t seen it documented. My thought is that Richardson wouldn’t throw his support to Obama, because he would want to keep options open to cabinet post in Hillary presidency.

Liebermensch + Obama = bad for our party, in any combination at all…

Until Tet

OT, just read Broder’s take on Iowa. He said it was not representative because too many activist were involved. What the dunce, oops, dean of the Washington press corps, doesn’t seem to understand is that democracy is not a spectator sport where the public just sits back soaking in the “wisdom” of the punditocracy. The sooner that people like Broder, Russert, Matthews et al are made completely irrelavent will be a great day for America.

What is a Taylor Marsh meltdown?

I doubt it, as far as I could tell, Obama never strayed from the course his mentor helped set for him, unless his arm got twisted.

Yea, Mao and Uncle Ho are laughing it up big time in the big mausoleum in the sky!

Think they’ll still be laughing when/if we default on that debt?

Somewhere last night I read that the Obama people confirmed it. I have no idea where.
I thought that too, that he would want to be part of Hills cabinet but if she isnt going to win…then Obama’s
Also he is still in the race.

Short Ride has pretty much always had Rs loving him IIRC. After all, he was endorsed by Bill Buckley and was the means to get Lowell Weicker out of the Senate.

I would think Mao would chase the ghost of Deng Xiaoping with vengeance in mind.

ya figure “they” might try to fill the void with some other economic system?

Interesting!

The Republicans are learning the meaning of “ya dance with them what brung ya.”

I was thinking….”Lie with dogs, wake up with fleas”

It’s tough to soar with the eagles after you’ve rooting with the swine.

because he will probably pull Republicans away from him than Dems from Bama.

I disagree. Bloomberg will f*ck things up for Dems if he jumps in there. We talked a little bit about this yesterday on a thread. Bloomberg used to be a Dem and then he switched to Repug before the Dem primary for NYC mayor because he figured he wouldn’t win in the Dem primary. He’s a little to the left on social issues. And in his second term as mayor (his limit), he switched to Independent to position himself for a possible prez run.

How about starting by allowing more than just “one union.” Workers rights don’t work under just one union.

That should be caveated by adding “contested” Iowa. That is, I would wager that St Ronnie won the R side in ‘84, Bush 1 in ‘92, and Clinton in ‘96

I know we disagree, but I see a difference between Bill Clinton coming in to Ct. to promote Lieberman even after Lamont was Dem candidate, and Obama’s traveing right past Ct without stopping at around the same time. Also, I don’t know the Senate system well enough (its been a long time since I was there) to know how this mentoring is set up. Sometimes people are allotted mentors, and it is shared around the whole group of party leaders.

Except he’s got zero potential. People are sick of millionares. Look at Mitt Romney.

Umm, you forget the CT fundraiser dinner when Obama chastised CT Dems for booing HoJoe. And talked about what a great guy lieberman is.

I got in enough shit for my opinion of unions yesterday, not thanks.

unka karl is backstage pulling every single string, bet on it.

oh wow…. obama gets no love here….iowa is just a fluke and he’ll get his come-uppance in NH seems to be the vibe i’m getting here…. and huckaboo has crossed all the repugs by actually winning over the mitt…long knives are coming out

I was just typing what my ears heard. Never stopped to think about the nuances. I suspect you’re right, and that what the wnyc guest said is pretty meaningless. But it was curious nonetheless.

Morning Blue Texan! Hilarious rundown… except, somehow I remember some loon from the past who proved time & time agin he was a gen-ewe-ine idjit, & we laughed & laughed. Then, 8 yrs later, here we are with a broken country and festering world.

I’ll laugh too, because it’s ludicrous, but let’s just remember there are toys to pick up, and more than just dust in the corners.

I wasn’t talking of US.

Quoi? definitely false.

Besides I never give you sh*t for your opinions.

Nah, I think they’d chew us up until we’re malleable, and then swallow…hard.

buttered? or chilisauce? ;->

OK. That’s the last time (until the next time) when I pass along info I heard but know nothing about.

Since Jimmy Carter, no winner of the Iowa caucus has gone on to win the candidacy, according to a guest on wnyc.

Except for Mondale in 84, Clinton in 96, Gore in 00, and Kerry in 04.

Perhaps the guest meant “presidency” and not “candidacy” (that is, the party’s nomination), but that still ignores Clinton in 96.

Could you consider that maybe after all that has gone down with LIEberman that Obama could change his mind about Holy Joe? Let’s see.

I’d certainly welcome any evidence of this. Anyone have any?

*Ducking beneath my computer stand and hiding my head.*

picky picky picky…

One reason i luvs this place…

You did last week as well on the Tula thread. Maybe you should just stay off that thread…or lurk. *g*

OK. That’s the last time (until the next time) when I pass along info I heard but know nothing about.

Kinda like what the mass media does every day.

Here’s a thought — is Obama/Edwards a winning ticket? I mean, Hil IS a woman, and if you ask me, America is a lot more ready for a half black guy (to assuage its guilt and end the race discussion forever) and a sweet lookin country boy in the White House than they are to admit a woman can run the show. And i am not a Hil fan by any means, but that’s how i see it.

obama38%
edwards 30%
Hil 29% with 100% of precincts in

HEY! Git out here & hep me clean up this popcorn! *munch munch munch*

Been there and done that myself, more than once.

I believe that most people here, as at DKos, are in the Edwards camp but I would certainly not call Iowa a fluke that will correct itself in NH. I WANT Edwards to win but I want Hillary to lose more than I want Obama to lose.

Realistically, I think Clinton has better odds in NH than she did in Iowa. My two predictions are: if Hillary takes NH then Obama takes a close second with Edwards, obviously, in third. If Obama takes NH then I predict another Edwards second place win tight with Hillary. I would LOVE for Edwards to actually take NH, which I would then have to place Obama in second and Clinton third.

So, I’m all over the place on how I EXPECT NH to come out but I have no particular animus against Obama, just his mushy “let’s all just hold hands and sing koombayah” blather. My own vote is irrelevant as my state doesn’t do a primary until FRIGGIN’ JUNE! So I wont be voting in the primary because it doesn’t count for shit and I don’t support status-quo Dems, which are all we get here.

My position come 2008 is to vote FOR Edwards, if I have that option, or AGAINST the GOP AND the Democrats. My local Dems are yellowish dogs as are the so-called “leadership” of the party so I will NOT encourage them to continue more of the same crap by voting for them. No love for DEMOCRATS as a while from me, just certain individual Democrats. No particular love for Obama, but NO love for Clinton. See?

I’ll take that as an insult. *g*

Too busy picking up the Cheerios.

Obama/Edwards a winning ticket?

Nope. But Edwards-Obama might be. Besides, Edwards would never be the VP on any ticket. He’s been there, done that.

To arms! Batten down the hatches!

The spin machine is all busted to hell and all the kings men are sitting around with their thumbs in their mouths.

Oh, this is something funny to watch.

The pain.

-G

No insult intended [yes I did see the *g*], just thot you worded it cleverly.

Indeed. See my 17 and 22 above.

as a person who wanted dodd to win or at the least come in much higher than he did - i’m rather surprised that progs are upset that obama won in iowa….. would there be this much animus had hrc won? i for one now fear for obama

It was very alarming to understand that in the rules at the Iowa Caucus for Democrats the door is open for any Independent or Republican to come into the Democratic side, declare themselves a Democrat, and vote again.

Especially as the news commentary suggested that the Republican vote was cast. and immediately gave it’s Caucus area to the Democrats. At this point all the Republican bean counters needed to do was float enough Republican insurgents to the Democratic side, to send a lope sided message to America. They did. Giving Obama a win. Only the insiders know what happened but it would be interesting to know the truth of count manipulation. To be sure its kept a secret, and actually something expected by the Clintons.

This is all very scary, and does not represent a true picture of the electorate. Yet, shows everyone in America the horrible Primary way things can be manipulated. It’s obvious across the Mainstream Media spectrum every news commentator was glad to see Hillary come in third. It’s only my opinion that Hillary is clearly able to work out of this mess America is in using a great deal of hind sight Obama does not have.

It’s obvious, with Obama the electorate is confused and can not differentiate ego and audacity with, a real skill in true leadership. Obama pounds out change. Only what change is he going to do? So far Obama mirror’s every thing in the Hillary, or Edwards’s agenda. Change what? It’s all an empty suggestion to me.

Reflecting back to the Clinton administration, anyone who knows technology and grow up through that time understands the Clinton/ Gore team introduced the most profound change in the world and American by promoting the Internet in the educational process. Getting our education system online that quickly spread to the free market system which today is a reality of the most significant change in human history. A new world of online technology so profound it’s usefulness is unlimited to every citizen who hooks up to it. These minds of vision for goodness and social awareness are a treasure, and we are all witness as we write on these comment blogs to express our opinions to develop change. We write on these blogs every day ignoring the agents of change that made it possible. Clinton is among the giants of time. It’s surprising that Clinton and Gore did not achieve a Nobel Prize for this profound change. The voters of Iowa have be totally disconnected from reality not to understand that.

But most glaring in the ideal Change will never happen in America if Bush and Company is not held accountable for the abuse, profiteering and corruption it currently is swamped in. All deliberately avoided with Mainstream Media as a key player in a deception and corrupt manipulation beyond anytime in history. More and more Americans are keenly aware that news is biased for the few and against the electorate. These profiteers, these thousands of think tanks filled with bias operate with mainstream Media on a daily basis to manipulate America that run against the grain of the very fiber of the Constitution and free market system.

Hillary Clinton has the ability to create the same change needed right now in America. The real agent of change; vote Clinton 2008.

i am totally with you on all the above. we have the wimpy variety of congressicats here in maine as well. i’m not voting for any of them and i’ve let them all know that. am supporting people running against them in primaries who don’t have a prayer but hopefully will elevate the discussion. And our senators, oh puuullleezze! They are both lieberman groupies.

Edwards and Kucinich are the most honest operators in the field i think, but Dennis hasn’t a prayer and can’t even elevate the debate as they give him so little press in MSM, and even in other venues.

you really think Edwards can get the nomination?

aw-rite aw-rite, too bizzy to argue. someone absolutely surrounded my ‘puter table with a carpet of hershees kisses wrappers while i was sleepin’ last nite.

Praedor at 137. geesh. i suggest a few more hrs. sleep a’fore you dissect that plan of, um, action any farther. good luck to you there! i’m just a simple old hag lass.

Obama burned his bridges with netroots when he supported Joe-Lie against Lamont. Plus: he’s a few some dumb things, the most recent being his allowing his ads to float on Matt Drudge for several days before Iowa…

Sadly, no. See my 17 and 22 above.

Was that message approved by Hillary Clinton?

Deez whut i’m saink about obama win. repubs are responsible?

Dodd and Obama are nothing alike. Obama decided to sit out Dodd’s fight against FISA telcom immunity, in favor of what?!? As did Hillary and Biden. I’d like those chickens come home to roost for both.

Not to mention the way he attacked Krugman…

I think Edwards can get the nomination — so much so that I sent his campaign more money this morning…

It’s a different Republican party now.
Until either they replace or we defeat the truly despicable goopers, we should not be seeking reconcilliation. As I said in a comment last week on the same subject, that reaching across the aisle thing is a load of crap until things improve on the other side.

Did we think he would come ahead of Hillary in Iowa? Weird things happen.

Hey, I’m one of those right-wingnuts because I want the government to leave me alone. Huckabee is basically the opposite of that, fiscally & socially.

Obama doesn’t look so bad in comparison.

Re: my 149:

…he’s done a few dumb things… (ah, the edit function)

heh heh

Say, has anyone made any headway deciphering whether it was huckster’s veryown minions who poked the ministerial ranks into fear & tremblin’ over nontaxable commentarying, or if it was somethin’ else? My totally uninformed opinion is that huck’s crowd prolly pulled that caper just for kicks.

Sorry, I will no longer vote for the lessor evil. Never again. I’ve done that already and all I get for it is polluted.

I will henceforth vote on principles, damn party. What I REALLY like to see is more 3rd party members in Congress. Sure, they don’t have much chance of taking the White House but there is NO reason that 3rd party candidates cannot easily get more seats in both houses of Congress. This would be a GOOD THING ™ and would force the two broken and corrupt parties to scramble to win 3rd party members to caucus with them. Thus, more 3rd party candidates in Congress can FORCE the Dems to actually do what they were actually given the majority to do: ROLL BACK, NOT GIVE IN.

Thus, no Edwards for Pres then I MIGHT vote for Obama, no way for Clinton, and no way for any local Dems or GOPers. They all suck and are all corrupt.

Hillary Clinton has the ability to create the same change needed right now in America. The real agent of change; vote Clinton 2008.

Want my honest opinion? “Real agent of change” sounds way too marshmallow sales markety.

i’ll be paying more attention now to obama now that he’s won in iowa….i’ll see what he does and says from this point on….edwards has yet to win me over

Attaturk’s post early this morning sounded like, for better or for worse, the vote for Obama was genuine support, not a Rovian plot to stick it to Hillary with stealth GOPers sneaking in to skew the results.

You might want to loosen the tin foil a bit.

Ha! Truth seeing the light of day…what a concept!

Let’s face it the guy has burned bridges right and left (well mostly left). So who is left? A good question to ask.

Didn’t he do something to basically slap a union in the face recently? I can’t remember what! (It’s tough getting old!)

I am already in my close ranks mode.

I don’t care who the Democrat is now.

Justice Stevens is 83 years old or 93 or whatever.

And any Democrat is better than any Republican.

-G

707 :-)

Speaking as one who has an almost completely solid, unbroken record of voting for losing candidates of very high quality, superb ethics, common sense and an abundance of compassion, I commend you and wish you well.

*hands extra box of tissues thru the toobz*

so I am reading the comments over at that concervative site and I am amused with something

they only problem they have with huckabee is that he doesn’t mind social projects and that he pardoned some guys in jail

first, I am wondering what they expect, do they really think the next republican is going to bring back federalism?

obviously they have no clue how hard they will be hit if we eliminated social programs, they think if we eliminated the roosevelt years everything would be so much better

the way they right, they seem to have a fair amount of inteligence and it’s hard to believe inteligent people have so little understanding of government or economics

they are also mad at mccain for a number of reasons which I can’t figure out, however one of them is that he is for stem cell research

and even though they want no social projects what so ever, for some reason they are against ron paul who happens to be the only one that will try to give them what they want

they probably don’t like the fact that he’s against the war and ron paul would probably get their vote if the flipped on that

anyway, interesting to see how they think, interesting to read what they assume are facts

Reflecting back to the Clinton administration, anyone who knows technology and grow up through that time understands the Clinton/ Gore team introduced the most profound change in the world and American by promoting the Internet in the educational process. Getting our education system online that quickly spread to the free market system which today is a reality of the most significant change in human history. A new world of online technology so profound it’s usefulness is unlimited to every citizen who hooks up to it. These minds of vision for goodness and social awareness are a treasure, and we are all witness as we write on these comment blogs to express our opinions to develop change. We write on these blogs every day ignoring the agents of change that made it possible. Clinton is among the giants of time. It’s surprising that Clinton and Gore did not achieve a Nobel Prize for this profound change. The voters of Iowa have be totally disconnected from reality not to understand that
.

So much of what you say is true, but we paid a price for all this techno, and i’m not sure all the techno wasn’t just smoke and mirrors to distract us from the wholesale giveaway of america. Not saying the techno wasn’t amazing advance, just that we could have HAD that without giving up everything else, mentioned here earlier today by many people. The DLC sold us old under Clinton, moved the dems to the right, and closed doors to a better life for millions of people that will never be reopened without real revolution. Dose don’t come easy eeda.

Caught a glimpse of David Brooks (who luvs him some Obama) on the NewsHour last night, doing this kinder, gentler act with no mention of how the rethugs have consistently run on race, sexual-preference, extra-chromosome “patriotism,” “religion,” etc. Morphing now into Mr. Reeeeasonable he thinks he is…

“
Hillary Clinton has the ability to create the same change needed right now in America. The real agent of change; vote Clinton 2008.”

like my mississippi grandmother used to say to me in the 60s, “Don’tchoo fool yoself!”

Apropos of nothing in particular:

I’m remembering John Chancellor’s reference, years ago, to having to choose between “the evil of two lessers.”

i thougt it was interesting that obama got the unmarried female vote, Hil got the marrieds/

Attaturk’s post early this morning sounded like, for better or for worse, the vote for Obama was genuine support, not a Rovian plot to stick it to Hillary with stealth GOPers sneaking in to skew the results.

Seconding that: the structure of the caucus is that the doors are locked at 7 PM — latecomers aren’t admitted. So for joze46’s analysis to be correct, we have to assume that the fix was in on the GoOPer side in advance. Huckabee is a candidate of what passes for roots in the GoOP: he is not a candidate of the corporatocracy. Ain’t nobody but the christianists backing Huckabee, so a fix being in for Huckleberry doesn’t pass the laugh test.

Additionally, the Democratic candidate the GoOP most wants to run against is HRC. She is the one Democratic candidate likely to bring to their base out in force, foaming at the mouth. So if the GoOP was trying to monkeywrench the Democratic caucus, they’d be out in force for HRC not Obama.

Mark Kleiman (http://www.samefacts.com)is an Obamaniac, but he makes a persuasive case that Obama is the candidate most feared by the GoOP. If Kleiman is correct about that (and I believe he is), the GoOP wouldn’t be loading the dice in Obama’s favor.

Take peterr’s advice, loosen the foil a little and make sure you took today’s dose of thorazine.

BC

The Clinton Admin essentially setup the surveillance state that Bush/Cheney have picked up and RUN with. Clinton was beholden to corporations and simply put a kinder, gentler, more folksy face on corporatism but corporatism it was.

In any case, I cannot forgive Clinton for giving us the overarching surveillance state we now suffer under. It is only going to get worse, particularly if the Dems actually put forth Hillary (in the end) as the nominee. She would do nothing to undo any of the power grab that Bush has made (and Bill Clinton) made possible.

Iowa, New Hampshire? We have the most bizarre, anti-democratic way of picking our Presidents, which probably goes far in explaining why nearly all of our Presidencies in the last 50 years have been failures.

I don’t support Obama but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t if he ran in another 4 to 8 years. This would give him some time to show us that leadership he keeps talking about. As for Hillary, she is part and parcel of a system that has contributed mightily to the failed Presidencies we have seen.

It grieves me to see real Democratic candidates, those of substance, like Christopher Dodd have to leave the race just as it is properly beginning or a John Edwards struggle against the indifference and hostility of the media. Star power still trumps substance.

We come to this place every 4 years and we make the same or similar mistakes every 4 years. I sometimes think a Presidential lottery where you buy a ticket and if you win you’re President for 4 years would make as much sense as this goofy and capricious method we use now.

you’re absolutely right. book: No Place To Hide tells it all. I was quoting in that first para, responding to that, and disagreeing with its rationale. Think the Clintons and Bushes are cahooters. It doesn’t take long for the slime to wipe off on you once you get to DC. Sad but true. Not that they were squeaky clean to begin with.

I’m reading that book No Place to Hide right now. Ok, not RIGHT now while I type this…

Edwards strikes me as the only candidate left standing that one can have a realistic expectation that he would actually move against corporations and the government violating our rights and privacy. Obama and Clinton would be all to happy to go along with the same old same old.

NO SALE…you all give that THUG too much credit.
He is too busy right now worrying about his fat arze!

I think if Mike “Waste of Bass” Huckabee wins in NH, it will be a major upset for Romney, who would then be tempted to take what’s left in his bank account and run home with his barbed tail between his legs. He would then have EARNED the “Big MO.”

RE: How LBJ got things done….

From your pen to Harry’s & Nancy’s BRAINS!

I am happy to see so many people sharing my delight at having lots of smelly, rotten, fundamentalist, chickens swooping into the GOP’s Halliburton-Bechtel mansion to lay their eggs, and shit all over the pricey rugs. (Not to mention on Rush and Crazy Annie’s heads. :o) )

Run, Huck, Run! :o)

I’m with you, GregB! Much as I have my druthers, any one of the democrats running is so much better than anyone the republicans have pulled out of the primal ooze — I know I’ll vote for any of’em!

i thougt it was interesting that obama got the unmarried female vote, Hil got the marrieds/

According to CNN Obama got the young vote and that would include unmarrieds in general and unmarried females.