Login HereThe Mellencamp concert for John Edwards last night was a huge success for the campaign. It was well attended (easily twice the size of the Huckabee "Huck'n'Chuck" rally the night before), the crowd was enthusiastic and responded to his message. The people he assembled on the stage represented the image he was trying to put forth -- working class, labor, the people who have been forgotten and disenfranchised and disempowered. They're pissed off and they respond to Edwards' message that you can't reach a "bipartisan agreement" with people who won't pay for a liver transplant for a teenage girl for the sake of profit. You're going to have to fight them.
The whole thing was well stage-managed and the pieces were put in place for a consistent message. Elizabeth Edwards was great and Mellencamp really worked for them, but my problem was strangely -- Edwards himself.
He's better than I've ever seen him before and he connected with the crowd well, but the obvious comparison with Edwards was not Obama or Clinton but the populist Huckabee, who had been on that very stage the night before. Edwards doesn't have Huckabee's affability, his sense of humor, his ease in front of an audience. I like Edwards message, it appeals to me, but I got the sense that if I wasn't already on his team I might not be persuaded by listening to him. Edwards speaks like a man who is convinced he's right and will doggedly pursue his message whether people want to hear it or not. Which I respect. But Huckabee has a sense of himself as a man with a message that is right for the time, and all people need to do is hear it and they'll think so too. The populist frame is not all that different, but one message is alienating, the other enfranchising.
Edwards could do it in Iowa. He seems to have channeled people's economic frustrations (as opposed to amorphous frustrations with the political process) better than anyone. He's got solid labor support and those people show up.
But if he goes forward, he needs some media training. I'm assuming he's had plenty, but he needs someone else. Someone to lighten him up and shift his pitch to ride the wave on the left that Huckabee has surfed on the right.
I'm listening to Ron Paul speak right now to an enthusiastic audience. There's a tremendous hunger for change in this state. The only question is -- whose package are they buying?
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Jane!
ZED! Go Edwards!!
Everyone was wondering what was in the Ron Paul box lunch?
Rooting for Edwards here!
Is Ron Paul the George Wallace of his time? Populist BS that preys on prejudices of people.
Both CBL and I are solid for Edwards right now. Love to hear he is doing well in Iowa.
Maybe you have to be angry to connect.
Can Edwards do it in Iowa? Maybe. I hope so… Hillary might then come in third. That would stun her and Bubba. Then watch out when they crank their machine!
Do you think the $100 a barrel oil will be on peoples minds tonight in Iowa?
Boy, you nailed it Jane.
Tweety is already trying to “Dean Scream” Edwards for being “angry”…Huck’s sense of humor is entirely what is floating his boat..
I think Edwards will do well and with a little better sense of humor (he needs to go back and carefully listen to Bobby K)… strength, logic, and snark..that was his charm.
I’m pullin’ for Edwards.
Yeah, and Huckabee seems well under his skin, so to speak. But I know what you mean, Jane. Huckabee comes across as a natural, easy going, and not acting at all. Quite a contrast to Mitt and Mama…
MSM is calling Edwards angry. I get a kick out of this. An angry white man. Watever happened to the angry black man? *g* I guess Obama wouldn’t quite fit that.
I have heard a similar criticism (and thought the same thing myself). Edwards needs the lighter side to show through a little more. He doesn’t come across as “relaxed.”
That’s okay with me because it’s usually a big act from people like the Decider and Bubba, and probably even Huckabee. But it’s a sign of polish and professionalism that may prove invaluable for the party’s nominee next November.
Ab Fab Jane & Jeralyn - who is Patsy & who is Edwina?
Jane,
Perhaps you’re just too close to objectively scrutinize what transpired. I think the caucus goers who attended the rally probably had different experiences. I don’t know or even dare to prognosticate what the differences might be. However, I do believe that your intense involvement in the campaign along with your own decided selection of your candidate of choice is very different from the people who will actually caucus tonight.
Maybe I’ve missed something, but it seems that Julie Anni has disappeared from the news entirely. I know that he is in Florida, but is he still a contender? What’s up?
The question for me is do I think that voters will recognize that Huckabee does not engender the prospect for change. It should be obvious that Mr. Huckabee, at best, represents a continuation of the Bush era, with all it’s accompanying failed attributes.
Mr. Edwards would be fine with me. As would Dodd. Of course Edwards could polish his message a bit perhaps. Couldn’t we all?
“Huckabee has a sense of himself as a man with a message that is right for the time, and all people need to do is hear it and they’ll think so too. The populist frame is not all that different, but one message is alienating, the other enfranchising.”
My take on that is that John knows he’s saying things (and will be ) that people don’t want to hear.
OTOH, Huckabee is the “Southern preacher” incarnation of Dubya. He’s practiced at his presentation because he’s seducing, not convincing. The people he appealed to in the past were already convinced about his message.
I’ve seen too many like Huck over my growing up years in the south. Their moving out of the mansion Target registry (and for the recommitment ceremony) is just par for the course. He has no real principles that translate well to governing a country…..just a style that works in a particular culture. And it’s mostly about him.
Edwards is my guy. It was close between him and Dodd though. About his chances to win Iowa, my gut tells me that he’s not going to win. Maybe second, but I guess we’ll be seeing for sure this evening. I think that the other candidates are going to kill him with the expectations game. If he doesn’t come in second at least the press will spin this as Edwards is a loser. But that’s just my gut. Maybe I just need to get something to eat….
I’ve heard his delivery described as the defense lawyer style, making eye contact with every person on the jury until they are convinced. If that’s accurate, perhaps it works better in small gatherings than in large crowds. More media training might help, but the problem with training is that the subject has to know he needs it first, otherwise it won’t be effective. Edwards was fine at the WGA rally in NYC, but it was a friendly informal crowd, not voters trying to make up their minds. So it was no test, and we all had no basis of comparison, like you did with Huckster.
Check out his latest ad
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/062467.php
I think Edwards is really solid and I think the turn out for Dems will be huge. I also think a lot of talking knobs heads will explode over the next couple of days…
Completely OT, Owww terrorists and gay folks..scary…../s
(Baghdad) The Iraq government is considering the release of some 5,000 prisoners but a spokesperson said it would not include terrorists or homosexuals.
http://www.365gay.com/Newscon08/01/010208iraq.htm
Jane,
Will you be coveying these impressions to the Edwards campaign?
Now that is scary!
Tweety is already trying to “Dean Scream” Edwards for being “angry”…
Heard Mrs. Greenspan pushing the same crap this morning. Repub’s are *desperately* loooking/pushing for a “Rodney King” D candidate.
“Can’t we all just get along”?
NO!!
I suspect that the patina of “inevitability” has started to wear off with HRC, thank goodness. Obama is still a neophyte… one good convention speecha and two years in the Senate hardly make someone presidential, I have to wonder how much of his run is ego, and how much is truly understanding what he’s asking for; also we don’t need another president who is going to be getting massive amounts of “OJT” because his ego overcame his good sense.
If Obama ran in ‘12 or ‘16 he’d have my support if he remains true to the principles he’s espousing. But a quick glance at the record as it sits… he could not be bothered to do anymore to “protect and defend the Constitution” by literally standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Chris Dodd in the well of the Senate, for the FISA/Telecom immunity issue. If he (and HRC and Biden) could not drag their asses off the campaign trail for something of that import, what is there to suggest that if given the keys to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave Obama or any of them would behave differently?
And this get interesting for Huckeeberry:
Link: http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin.....tters.html
We are in support of Edwards and Dodd. We think either could defeat Huckabee.
Edwards knows he needs to be angry to win the nomination — Democrats are angry and need a vessel for our anger. He’s it. I hope we’ll see a return to the sunnier Edwards for the general election.
I don’t want him to tack right for the general. I don’t think he needs to. But I think a little tuneup in the disposition department will serve him well. Americans like a cheerful president. Between two populists — Huck & JRE — America might choose the more cheerful one.
(Baghdad) The Iraq government is considering the release of some 5,000 prisoners but a spokesperson said it would not include terrorists or homosexuals.
In other words, 5,000 utterly innocent people?
How, umm, *decent* of them…
…gets interesting…
the description of Hucksterbee sounds like ronnie raygun and oh boy
I guess we should be looking in Hoolywood for people to run for office
masters and misstresses of the universe….Please give us Edwards
All due respect, Jane, but is it possible that you have been influenced by your proximity to the massive mainstream media juggernaut in Iowa? This sounds a bit like the usual “can’t win” MSM criticism: “too angry”, “too strident”, “not enough passion”, “too distant”, “too raw”, “too polished”, etc.
I’ve been an Edwards supporter from the minute Kerry conceded. I was looking forward to his candidacy since then. And he’s always left me feeling a little empty or disappointed or something. But screw those “feelings”. he da man. Jane, I’m assuming we’ll see a different Edwards as things head south and I’m also assuming he can connect with Southerners just like he did with NC juries. He’ll be OK if the mulah hold out.
THAT was insightful. Really nice pickup.
But I get Jane’s point as well. I think Edwards, b/c he is so damn pretty looking has always had to struggle to be taken seriously and has learned a demeanor to achieve that. (otherwise all commentary about him would be even MORE focused on his haircuts and his pearly whites.)
It’s kinda late inthe game to try to chnage that and if he did, I’m afraid it would come off as very phony.
That being said, if the pressure is getting to him, he could be coming across as very strained. It might eb as imple as getting some sleep and sipping a little cammomile—and, yes, I know how trite that sounds and how unlikley a litigator (used to pushing himself past his limits and “gutting” things out) would even consider sucha thing.
Maybe a massage and steam?
Who the hell is equating these two groups?
The really hilarious thing is that the Villagers have been trying for years to convince the Dems that they need to appeal to the “angry white male.” I guess you’re supposed to pander to them, but you’re not supposed to actually be one.
And Obama, I’m sure, knows very well that an angry black man would go nowhere in national politics. I believe his conciliatory style is sincere, but I also believe he has fewer other options for that reason (as does Clinton, in fact.)
Musharraf is now thelling us that Bhutto is responsible for her own death. Perhaps big brain Huckabee could give us his take on this.
Is it me but I find Huckabee just plain dumb and uninformed. The difference between him and Dubya, is that Huckabee doesn’t try to hide it.
How low have our standards fallen that affability is a big concern in a presidential race? We are in deep s*** as a country.
1,750 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Thanks for the report on the Edwards rally, I really think that regardless of large or small turnout Edwards’ unpollable support and his consistent strength with the “independents” will torpedo the corporate media efforts to make ‘im invisible. As for your worry about the “affability” factor, I would like to suggest that you may be over analayzin’ this one…don’t fall into the trap of advancin’ cosmetics and marketing psychology over issues and the ability of voters to identify with the honesty of experience of a candidate. The people who count and the greater base of the Democratic Party are hurtin’ BIG time and identify with Edwards’ politics as well as his personal presense. Put the Elmer Gantry up on the same stage as Edwards and he’ll shrink to the size of a penny in the collection plate.
I am more afraid of Barak O’Lieberman foolin’ the “newbies” in the Democratic Party, especially the young, than I am a general election confrontation with a fascist phony.
KEEP THE FAITH AND GO TO JAMAICA IF YA WANNA SEE WHAT FASCIST ECONOMICS WILL DO FOR AMERICA!!
Could it be as simple as the difference in their backgrounds. Huckabee has had to earn donations most of his life with mythical tales from sympathetic parishioners. Edwards had to earn by channeling anger into justice, with facts, through courts of law on behalf of those who have been taken for a ride.
I must admit that one of my main reasons for liking Edwards is that anger. I think that’s what we need more of. I’ve often asked, “Where’s the outrage!” I’m glad Edwards is supplying it. It’s time! Americans should be angry at what’s going on with our government! I wish it were more geared toward our loss of Civil Liberties and subjugation of the Constitution to the Personality Cult of the President. But at least it’s there.
Your misgivings do give me pause, though, Jane. What would he need to do in your opinion to close his argument, and as a trial lawyer, shouldn’t he be convincing enough to do that without further guidance? What base is it that he’s not touching for you. I doubt it’s ideology, I don’t think it’s philosophy, what? Does he just seem “on” all the time? Does he not seem real and trustworthy? I bet his wife has a lot of what you feel he lacks, because Elizabeth seems extremely personable. I even wonder if it’s his little boy countenance, that Dick Clark look of his, that “I never age!” look that may be off-putting.
Re-read your post (since the servers seem to be having a breakdown) and I think it may just be that Edwards needs to learn the benefits of meditation or some other similar practice, bio-whatever, or zen or something. He needs to get more comfortable in his own skin.
All due respect, Jane, but is it possible that you have been influenced by your proximity to the massive mainstream media juggernaut in Iowa? This sounds a bit like the usual “can’t win” MSM criticism: “too angry”, “too strident”, “not enough passion”, “too distant”, “too raw”, “too polished”, etc.
Hillary’s Zionist MSM support switched to Obama a couple of months ago.
Hill looks lost in the wilderness ever since.
I have to agree with Jim the Cynic where he says “…your own decided selection of your candidate of choice is very different from the people who will actually caucus tonight.”
It surprises me Jane, after all this time you are only just seeing Edwards? Then when he had a great event with over 3,000 enthusiastic people you make it sound like he was mediocre? And while he was on a 36 hour tour? Obviously you have had your own candidate of choice and haven’t been paying attention.
I have seen John Edwards engage crowds too many times. People leave feeling he spoke directly to them. So maybe he had an off day where he was running low at that point, I don’t know, I wasn’t there. I have only heard enthusiastic reports from many sources about that event.
This is the only one that was sour. ?
Edwards populism vs. Huckabee populism:
http://www.arktimes.com/blogs/......aspx#more
Don’t tell me server problems still? Is it the underlying OS or the Blog app that seems to be causing the glitches? It took me 5 to 6 minutes to get my connection back. Whats up??
Can Jane get some time with Elizabeth Edwards and tell her that? I hope so. He seems to have the ability. Maybe John should try playing the guitar. I just want him to win.
Wasn’t last night the end of Edwards 36 hour campaign marathon? He could be forgiven for being a tiny bit off his game at that point.
If the Huck gets even close to getting the nomination, I believe the GOP will empty the coffers to stop it. Most of those elected would have no idea how to even talk with this man. He’s pathetic.
‘ ‘terrorists or homosexuals.’
Who the hell is equating these two groups?’
Biodum,
It’s from this link, I’m not linking the two together…
(Baghdad) The Iraq government is considering the release of some 5,000 prisoners but a spokesperson said it would not include terrorists or homosexuals.
http://www.365gay.com/Newscon08/01/010208iraq.htm
I don’t think you fully understand what she is saying. If I read it correctly, it seems as though she is saying that John needs to lighten up things a bit. He is so serious, that a little levity can go a long way.
Gosh, what a relief - I was concerned about all those gay people attacking ‘mercans./s
Could it be as simple as the difference in their backgrounds. Huckabee has had to earn donations most of his life with mythical tales from sympathetic parishioners. Edwards had to earn by channeling anger into justice, with facts, through courts of law on behalf of those who have been taken for a ride.
All Edwards would have to do in a general against Huckabee is replay Huckabee’s statement about being an author who supports writers with footage of him crossing a picket line juxtaposed with footage of Edwards supporting strikers and working in New Orleans. Simple honest facts would be all that’s needed to show Edwards as a man of intelligence and conviction.. and show Huck as another dumb hypocrite looking for a handout.
On the other hand, an Iowa teacher who called into Ed Shultz when I was out this afternoon really liked the fact that Edwards was dead serious and didn’t try to throw in some jokes. And he certainly had plenty of humor in the YKos post-debate session, so it may be a case of the right strategy for the time. Right now in Iowa, it’s less about convincing the undecided and more about convincing supporters to actually show up (especially at a rally of supporters.)
When Edwards takes Iowa by 4% points I’m going to have so much fun telling the Hillary supporters at my union to suck it.
She’s seen Edwards several times, in cluding at YKos and has written about them. Good lord, people, it’s Jane’s personal opinion. If you don’t agree with it and you were there and saw something different, then by all means detail what you saw, felt, heard, etc.
Presidential campaigns are tough to report, because people adopt a particular candidate and then take anything said about them very, very personally. But every candidate has strengths and weaknesses, and can use constructive criticism from someone on the outside of their campaign circle — which is, I think, Jane’s objective on this. We benefit from the best candidate fighting for all of us — would you all feel better if Jane only pulled her punches on Edwards and let him keep going forward without addressing something that needed work, even if she thought it would make him even better over the long run?
This isn’t some popularity contest, it’s politics. It’s nasty, it is a sales job, and media training has long been a part of it. Good media training. If a candidate isn’t getting that, then his staff and the people around him need to know that — otherwise even if he wins the nomination, we’ll get creamed in the general and we cannot afford a President McCain or Huckabee. We simply can’t. The stakes are FAR too high this year for mincey niceness.
And JaneNYC — you are absolutely right on the Huckabee Target registry — that just screamed “trashy” to me, too. Blergh.
Love that line “as another dumb hypocrite looking for a handout.” That’s Huck in a nutshell.
you owe my cat an apology. she doesn’t seem to like the coffee on her face….
Sorry, Kitty. I love cats.
Opps, forgot smiley face thingy :):):)
Dodd getting facetime with Noron on CNN, decrying “deals” where candidates tell their supporters what to do. Says he hopes his supporters, if they need to, will support their own second choice candidate.
Hear, hear, Christy. I certainly respect Jane’s opinion. I’m not convinced it’s a problem, but if it is, I hope it’s not too big of one, because I’m doubtful that anyone this far into the ego-trip of a presidential campaign is capable of seeing they need that kind of retooling.
“My own decided candidate?”
Nice try. I don’t have one.
I don’t think she ready to accept anything from either of us yet. I’m getting the ‘evil cat eye thing’….
After all, it’s the most important election of our lifetime. . .just like the last one, and the one before that, and the one before that.
Great post and very helpful Jane. You’re tracking the things that matter the most to lots of people- thanks.
I’m not liking all this “deal making” going on about who gives who’s votes to whom. Dodd was just on, and he said people want to make up their own minds about who to vote for. The latest is some Obama/Richardson deal. Just stop it.
Edwards has re-tooled his message, and his delivery, several times in this campaign. I think Jane’s seeing something specific he’s tailored for Iowa. Something not necessarily attractive to outsiders. This guy really knows Iowans, and he knows how to close the deal with them.
I trust him, and I also trust Elizabeth.
rotsa ruck
Yes it really is. I watched a very informative documentary on Nader (PBS) last month. One of the things I learned was how many D’s offered Nader and his causes a whole lot of money to drop out in 2000. I strongly suspect this will happen to Huck if need be this year. Nader didn’t accept the bribes.. Huckabee absolutely will. Bushco can count zeros.. and they have an appetite in multi-billions.. Huck can’t count high enough to have the level of greed.
As do I and, I suspect, the vast majority of people who frequent this blog. I don’t see anyone in this thread denying Jane’s right to her opinion, or minimizing her hard work in developing her opinion. I just see people analyzing and unpacking her opinion, trying to glean as much as possible from it, and figure out what it means.
I heard Dodd talking about the same thing. Does anyone know if there are records kept of which candidates the second-round votes in caucuses actually come from? It’d be interesting to know whether we actually know how many supporters follow their candidate’s request to “give” them to another candidate, or whether it’s just speculation.
I have met John Edwards, spoken with him, and I found him honest as well as likeable. When he spoke to the crowd the evening I saw him, he spoke with humor as well as frustration over the country’s current situation.
If I want humor, I’ll watch M.A.S.H re-runs, or our laugh-a-minute Idiot-In-Chief…
I’m just worried about the media. Heck, Channel 6 here in Philadelphia reran the whole “Dean Scream” thing here last night. I guess I just wish that Edwards would put a boot up Blitzer, Tweety or Russert’s ass.
I agree. Dodd seems to have a core of integrity that won’t allow anyone to seriously dilute or redirect it. Imagine that! As for Edwards and his anger, he needs to speak to it proactively. Who wouldn’t be angry? We have had feces dumped on us for seven long, anguished years. Don’t dodge this. Turn it into an asset. Remember the old “If you’re not angry, you’re not paying attention”? Turn this on its ear. Or maybe he already is. Remember me? The one who doesn’t watch the tube? Not always a good thing. Maybe.
Won’t it be nice if/when we can knock the GOP down far enough that every election isn’t the most important one of our lifetime?
Agree completely about trusting J & E. However, I cannot imagine the stress at this juncture of the campaign. We can count on the fact that Elizabeth misses absolutely nothing.
Now, OTOH, would love for some of the Edwards campaign staff to read Jane’s great post.
I’ll go one step farther; I want Huckabee to win for Rs. I don’t think Huck can win a general election for reasons too numerous to mention, so I’m hoping he is their chosen candidate. It gives our side a bigger edge, IMO.
In Response to Biodun @27
S
Signed, Your penpal,
KKKKarl
Seems to me that Iowans realize that they are really important to the election process, and I wouldn’t dare tell any of them how to vote. They are very independent people and I think would resent that.
“I just wish that Edwards would put a boot up Blitzer, Tweety or Russert’s ass.”
I’d send another contribution to Edwards campaign just to see that…
You know what? I have this vision of Edwards, shaver in hand, shearing off his golden locks, staring into the camera and saying, “Now. Pay attention to what matters.”
I don’t believe records are kept. Until this year, it wasn’t even illegal to misreport your precinct caucus results.
On another note, I worry that those Iowans most responsive to JRE’s message — second- and third-shift workers, oddjobbers, service and waitstaff folks — won’t be able to get off work for two hours at 6:30pm to vote for him. We also already know that military serving have no way to cast absentee ballots.
Gotta find a better way in 2012.
Have never thought of that possibility. However, you are right. Enough zeros on the check and I think the “Huckster” will go away.
He and Rudy love money more than power now that they have a taste of the former.
That’s what I’m talkin bout!
A valid concern. If we could just get some media attention for red-faced screaming freepers who show up at every protest and probably will show up at Dem events, it would make pretty clear the difference between anger and passion. (Oh, who am I kidding; regular people already understand it, it’s just the Beltway media who don’t because they don’t want to.)
2 questions:
1) Is Edwards your choice over all the candidates?
2) If you had never met Edwards, would you be interested in hearing him speak as someone talking with you, instead of at you?
In a show of support, John and Jack wanted to shave their heads before EE’s chemo and she wouldn’t let them.
Also, gang, FWIW the Richardson campaign is saying that they did NOT direct supporters to caucus for anyone else. More here.
In the past two weeks, Sunny John Edwards has been eclipsed by Fightin’ John Edwards — but did the shift come too late? When John Edwards is on, he is The BEST — but there have been too many missteps and missed opportunities along the way.
Here’s hoping he wins tonight, and rides the wave to victory.
Whew. I was worried about that one.
1,750 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hamsher:
I really appreciate your post on the Edwards rally and your musin’ about the “affability” factor as a frame to compare the phony with the real populist. I really believe that we are at a watershed election here not unlike the election of 1932 …what this means is that the real conditions and experiences of the people votin’ will be able to cut right thru the marketing cosmetics that were so successful in 1980 and made the 2000 election stealable for the Chimpenfuehrer. The fascist movement is skewed not on it’s own petard but on the reality of it’s own corruption and incompetence.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DO IT TO THEM BEFORE THE BASTARDS DO IT TO US AGAIN!!
In the last 4 months I have seen Obama speak 3 times, Edwards once and Bill Clinton once.
Obama is an uneven speaker. The first time he was pedestrian. The second time at the J@J Dinner he was absolutely on fire. The last time, two weeks ago, he was flat as hell.
I saw Edwards 4 days ago. Like Jane, I felt he gave a decent speech, but something was missing. Perhaps, it was that he had given the same speech too many times. It reminded me of some of the less than buffo performances he gave running as the VP candidate in 2004.
I saw Bill Clinton 5 days ago. He was sensational. The crowd, virtually the same one that saw Edwards the next day, in fact it was given in the same gym, loved him. There must be something in the water in Hope, Arkansas.
I hope people are not confused by this sentence in Jane’s post:
The conditional “if” is more important than some may notice. Jane’s not on a team; she was speaking as if she was someone who was on Edwards’ team. Which she’s not.
Where you been, in the bunker?
John Edwards gave a dynamite interview with the hapless Chris Matthews on MSNBC a couple of weeks ago. That was one on one and he came across wonderfully.
Iowa and NH are special cases. Most of the campaign will be waged over the air in debates and on ads. What Edwards has going for him is his intelligence and his sincerity. Huckabubba on the other hand may have a sincere air about him but he’s still batshit crazy. Edwards maybe could use a little fine tuning but I would advise against a do over. That way leads to the chameleon like rubberiness of Romney.
As do I and, I suspect, the vast majority of people who frequent this blog.
Damn, bet I didn’t make that cut!
Edwards is my choice, but I would answer yes to question 2 for any of the Dem candidates. While I disagree with some on policy, strategy, or style, I think they’re all thoughtful, educated people who would be interesting to have a conversation with.
The Republicans, not so much.
My sentiments, exactly… thanks for the short version.
I was in Edwards’ breakout session at YearlyKos. His honesty and integrity blew me away. Zero bullshit. If he didn’t know something or he disagreed with you, you knew immediately. And there were many questions that he wasn’t expecting or wasn’t ready for.
Well now he can. Hell, I’d do it, too. Might, in fact. My David’s hair started to fall out yesterday, so he’s on the road to bald pate, courtesy of chemo. Chrome domes for Edwards, I say!
Tweety made the call for Obama and that self serving media snot will do anything in his power to prove himself right.
But that’s Tweety’s deal. I’m in complete agreement about Edwards. He is definitely my preference of the big three with Hil a distant third. BUT I, too, have been struck by his woodenness and lack of affability. I know it’s there, he just needs to let it out. I wonder if he’s worried about people making fun of his lustrous hair in the event he let’s his “angry” guard down.
On the other hand, the country is pretty cocked up right now thanks to Republicans, in general. Why not be angry? Isn’t it justified on some level and can’t Edwards find a legitimate common ground to be both righteously angry and affable (bottle that, if he finds it!). If Huckabee wants to be jokey-jokey, isn’t he susceptible to the converse question of, “Hey Mike, things are pretty cocked up; what makes you so freakin’ cheery, anyway?”
1. Yes, he is — and 2. if I had never met him, I would be interested in hearing him — and when he speaks, he never gives me the impression that he’s talking at me. Even more important, when he realized I had a question I wanted to ask him, he stopped and listened to that question. I was very happy with the answer too.
That Iowa Independent reporter’s attribution of the rumors to “state and national media” is a ruse, though. As far as I know, the rumor was first published by Chase Martyn in the Iowa Independent.
Edwards on CSpan from Des Moines (taped yesterday, I assume) in 50 minutes, 1:25 Pacific.
(Mitt up now…)
Yeah, the absolute best line in that session was “I can honestly say I have never been asked that question before.”
We were not a typical meet-and-greet crowd. *g*
I don’t get this, I thought he was just as you describe in the debates with Darth. Wooden.
In my opinion, this is an absolutely key character trait for our next President. We need someone who is not afraid to admit that they don’t already know everything and, the corollary, that they could be wrong.
I’m mad at what this President has done to this country for the past 7 years.
I’m mad at what the Republicans in Congress have done to this country for the past 13 years.
I’m mad at what the Republicans in this country have done to this country for the past 30 years.
I want a President in 2008 who is as mad as I am about it.
Yes.
I wonder how the Edwards - Obama interaction will go if divided both lose against Clinton.
That being said if Obama is as moderate and consilatory as Clinton why not go with Hilary as she has more experience.
Edwards has thrown down a challenge and it is a fight pt no pot matter what the hope is. The Rs are always going to make it a fight and take and steal.
After continuing my enlightenment (as i am guessing is part of Edwards evolution) in hearing the author of the new book ”free lunch” on fresh air NPR I am double-plus for Edwards in NH.
Edwards got shafted by the media (corp) so if he can pull it off then that along with his trial sucess is a good track record. I hope that will help in NH and then have a shot at NC.
Affability, competence, affability, competence, which to choose, which to choose?
Edwards is the best choice! He cares,is smart,articulate and YES……..PISSED OFF LIKE ALL AMERICA IS!!!!
Yes, yes!!
I’m Mad Again
The Animals
I had a friend one time, at least I thought he was my friend
For he came to me, said “I ain’t got no place to go”
I said “take it easy man, you can come home to my house,
I’ll get you a pillow where you can rest your head”
Took him home with me, let him in my house,
Let him drive my Cadillac that I could not afford
When I found out he’d been messin’ around with my baby
You know I’m mad like Al Capone (I’m burnin’ up)
I said I’m mad (I’m burnin’ up)
Like Sonny Liston yeah (I’m burnin’ up)
You know baby I’m mad (I’m burnin’ up)
Like Cassius Clay (I’m burnin’ up)
You know I’m mad (I’m burnin’ up) you know I’m mad
Yeah baby, alright baby (I’m burnin’ up)
I’m mad, come on (I’m burnin’ up)
Took him home with me, introduced him to my baby,
He began to talk to her, made her think the moon was blue
You know I think I ought to tell you daddy
I’m mad, I said I’m mad with you
I don’t know what I’m gonna do to you
I might drown you, I might shoot you
I just don’t know because I’m mad
1,715 dayz and the killin’ goez on and on and..
Citizen Raven:
I jest got back from a 10 day field exercise in Negril, Jamaica with jest the field commander and the two daughters…it was the greatest thing to happen to our little family and for the two daughters. Yes indeed, the Norske is one lucky mother and next year we bring all three kids and the three granddaughters. Nuthin’ like the holidays without in laws (except my beautiful daughter-in-law). The Jamaicans have a lot ta teach us and we owe ‘em a new economy…
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION!!
Yup, it’s a tough one alright.
I don’t know about wanting a “lighter” Edwards. We are not in “light” times, and if we lose this election, it’s going to get so heavy that Costa Rica may start looking like the best option. Edwards isn’t perfect; none of them are, but I think Jane is reaching when she tries to compare Edwards with Huckabee, and that’s what it was.
In other news, here’s Digby, winding up a thread on Iraq, at her place:
She says:
“One hopes the candidates haven’t gotten too rusty on the issue of Iraq, because it’s going to be an issue, whether they like it or not.”
I’ll say it is, Digby. And Hillary’s got ALL of her chips on Iraq becoming LESS of an issue, and that puts her right in the republican limousine. This year, any democrat that thinks that is going to happen, or needs to happen, after all the blood and money down the tube, ought to simplify matters and…lightheartedly…show up at the next GOP debate and demand a podium to speak from.
I’m gonna say it one more time. And I’m absolutely serious about this.
Edwards shaves his head on-camera. And when he’s done, he says, “There goes the Republican talking point. In the garbage, where it belongs. Now that the distraction is gone, let’s talk about the things that really matter!”
Nice having you back. Just in time, too!
Last time I was there I was sitting in a joint across from T-Water eating conch chowder and drinkin Ting when the news came on the radio that Elvis died.
Arie
BTW what’s all this talk about $100 oil. Why at the moment the Cushing spot is barely over $99. *g*
I also saw in the new fdl news box that Bush is considering a stimulus for the economy. Gee (tax cuts) I wonder (tax cuts) what that could mean (tax cuts)?
Heard Richardson this morning talking to Ed Schultz for his regional show. Richardson was definitely talking looking at finishing in the Final Four…no indication of trading away that position.
Props to all the involved Iowegians who are launching the campaign season. Hope they’ve a few surprises in store for the MSM.
And redshift at 88, we don’t need to bemoan media attention any more…we have Youtube and the rising tide of the blogs. Let’s make the most of it.
Prairie, no time for cruise control
btw, Jeralyn has some video up from the Edwards’ event on C&L.
I hear ya! Actually I was surprised at some of the skepticism — and very impressed on how he handled it. I thought it was gonna be just a big love fest. Nope…not at all.
Oooops…gotta run. See y’all later…
Taylor Marsh has a take on the Obama rise:
People are seriously pissed. When the press ask why is Edwards so angry, they should be asked why they are not angry also. Maybe their jobs should be offshored to BBC and then they would get it. The economic message is coming at the perfect time which is why Huck is using it also. The populist message has always been I am not for sale. If the anti immigrant crowd could be made to see that it is really corporate interests they are against instead of people just trying to make a living then we would have a landslide. People are nice and bipartisan after they win not before. And the whiners saying how angry Dems are, and shouldn’t everyone be bipartisan know the pendulum is swinging back and they are about to be knocked silly by it.
The press corps gets its reward for getting McCain aloft again:
This NYT blogger nails Huck so well.
And you have to know there is a high degree of ability to make a connection in Edwards. No successful trial lawyer finds that success without being able to connect with people. And that’s a stressful grist mill too, so you’d think he’d be prepared for that. But maybe campaigning is a different kind of stress. Maybe the connection you can make to 12 individuals is vastly different from doing the Big Dog oratory master connection, thingy. Maybe the sleep deprivation is taxing. Maybe loosing a child never really gives you a break. Maybe knowing the woman you love will die young from cancer weighs on him. Maybe I wouldn’t like him as much as I do if he weren’t wooden after dealing with all that…I don’t know; but, I do know it won’t score him points with the soulless media wonks.
Mary Matalin on msnbc implying McCain is starting false rumors about Thompson dropping out after the caucases…
From OldGold @ 95
“There must be something in the water in Hope, Arkansas.”(re Bill and Huck’s abilities with crowds)
Reading the Wikipedia entry on Hope AR is a bit chilling…almost the exact demographics of the small town in NC where I grew up. My experience is that it’s very hard to break away from places like Hope, but you’re raised with a lot of support there (even if you’re from tough circumstances).
People in towns like these know, encourage and celebrate the town’s children. My NYC friends are always amazed at how far some of NC friends have gone in their careers…and how wide my “circle” is.
However, when you grow up “knowing” everybody (and being known), you have to learn how to really connect…if you want to leave and be welcomed back.
ITA. This American citizen is sick and tired of the “aw shucks, I’m not smarter than a fifth grader” types.
Yes, preachers are verry good at salesmanship. As a PK, I know a thing or two about that.
“Who built the highway from Baton Rouge”.
Kingfish
Kingfish
What town in NC? I’m from Boone.
Ask the people in Arkansas what they think of ‘ole Huck.
Does anyone know how Elizabeth Edwards is faring, health-wise? I can’t fathom how that could not be part of what’s going on with John right now.
Washington…and BTW from earlier thread, keep in mind that JRE is a NCSU grad. *g*
YEAH!
If there was any election that was due for socalled “Dean Screaming” this is the year! Hey, Repukes, hear us roar!!!
Good point on the angry message. Have heard it on Msnbc, npr, and many other media outlets neatly release over the last 2 to 3 days.
Other than CNNs 1 hour try after the debate to stick to the issues and policy this entire process is witches brew lies from pundits, spinmisters, and talking point authors.
There is enough truth out there for some enlightenment - never mind how great and what solid collective decisions we could make with what is hidden and without all the lies - but then thats the point I guess. Thats why its going to be such a fight in the end.
She is so stupid. Thompson has about 3 votes and she’s blathering about McCain. Matalin just hates to lose.
Typhoid Mary?
Ooh. I bet they’re really excited to see what kind of hors d’oeuvres he serves. Maybe little crab cakes and baby lamb chops?
The real Eeers!
Guess I’m gonna have to learn how to work a video camera (or find someone who can) so I can put together something…
Jane,
Interesting observations. I agree that John Edwards was a little off his game last night. I think it had to do with him being at the end of 36 hour straight campaigning and the fact that it was a crowd of over 3000 people. He seemed distracted by folks in the audience.
I have had the opportunity to hear Edwards speak at 4 different events this year. I think the best was back in November with Bonnie Raitt and Jackson Brown. He calmly answered questions from the crowd. Looked people in the eye. I think last nights event was somewhat tentative and cautious. I still think he can win tonight.
Does Thompson even know he’s in the caucuses? Or the Presidential race?
Jane, tell John to ditch the jacket shirt and tie. Look around at the supporters. they’re wearing bluejeansntshirts. he’s got to get out of lawyer mode and connect big time. jes sayin.
Huck, Rudy, Romney… Let’s see, just how many of the GOP candidates couldn’t get elected president if only the people they’ve governed were voting?
Jane, I’ve noticed a more fierce Edwards recently, as well, although Jerome Armstrong rates Edwards’ speech last night as one of the three best he’s ever heard in his life. Edwards’ delivery definitely seems to vary depending on the size of the audience. When he is able to answer audience questions his affability, sincerity and sense of humor definitely come through. I thought his J&J speech was one of his best–passionate, visionary, but not “angry.” It must be very difficult for all the candidates at this point, trying to differentiate themselves in the midst of such a strong field.
The Michigan-stomping ones!
Strange. I thought Edwards handled Chris Matthews better than any other politician I had seen. Every time Matthews came out with one of his bizarre non-sequiturs or inappropriate references to lines from an obcure old move, Edwards would break out in sincerely laughing, like, “what the hell are you talking about with such a ridiculous analogy?” Matthews looked embarrassed and would back of and try a more reasoned approach every time.
The difference between Edwards’ and Huck’s populism:
Edwards means it.
And I gotta tell you, I like humor as much as the next guy. Huck isn’t funny, he sounds like the fat guy trying to chat up folks in his new aerobics class.
Huckabee would not be nominated for Gov. by AR Republicans again. Term limits saved him from such an embarrassment.
I had forgotten that. Thanks. Now I won’t feel so guilty if I vote for him.
Perhaps Edwards doesn’t need to so much so a light side (a superficial touchy-feely side) as he needs to simply project full comfort in his own skin. If he could be more like the new, post-political-office-chasing Al Gore he would really have it covered.
I am really hoping for the candidates that the punditocracy has expressly disdained and ignored to do well today. I want them knocked back on their asses AND I want a better candidate that is more in tune with REAL America rather than cocktail circuit/corporate America. It is time for a populist to hold the levers of power and force the worms back into the ground.
Go Edwards (and for the GOPers, go Huckabee and/or Paul). Wouldn’t it be a hoot for the sole candidates to choose from (except, of course, for Bloomberg jumping in, which he WILL do if the iconoclasts win the noms) to be only those the punditocracy have dismissed?
Are we there yet?
20 minutes.
Uh…I’m mad at how the Democrats have sat back and done nothing but whined about how put upon they are, how weak they are, etc, while the GOP and Bush ALWAYS gets exactly what they want. THAT is what I’m mad about and I want a President who is as mad at the GOP as s/he is at the Democraps.
No quarter. No deals. No forgiveness.
Teddy’s looking out my window
If Tweety & other self-important others want to label Edwards the angry guy, they are deliberately ignoring (or just plain ignorant) most americans who happen to be extremely angry & fed up.
It isn’t a surprise John Edwards may have been a little off his game last night considering he hadn’t slept for 36 hours. Edwards schedule today includes visits to Iowa’s three largest cities. Call me crazy but me thinks he may well pull it off in tonight’s caucus rooms.
If this were a Texas caucus, I would feel comfortable in forecasting that, except for a few precincts, the most rotten turds would emerge as winners. But I have no idea what to make of a state giving us Chuck Grassley on the one hand, and Tom Harkin on the other.
OK. In addition to Teddy, who else is on pins and needles? I sure am.
Any idea if Edwards would be satisfied with the VP slot under Obama? I would think that this out of office, former one-term Senator would be content with that, and it would be a dream ticket.
Yeah, that too, for sure! Absolutely.
I’m sick of Establicrats.
Not for me.
Wow. Isn’t it a little early to be thinking about that?
Do you think Obama would pick him? I don’t think he would…just a gut feeling. oh, sorry about the gut thing, but I have no reasons to offer other than that.
Jeez, I guess my nerves are getting me too.
Go Edwards.
So, laughing at the preposterous can work. Seems someone suggested doing that awhile back on FDL.
I just hafta say: I’m connecting with the anger. I think outrage is completely appropriate right now and I’m glad Edwards is expressing the fury that I have been feeling for years.
Now back to read the comments.
I don’t need a friend or a funny guy, or to have a beer with an alcoholic. I need a President, and one who stands on principle and stands to fight.
For me I started to support Edwards in my small way (digging into the snow to plunk down a sign, talking to people I know and meet) after hearing one of his speeches a few weeks ago (shortly after the 2nd Tweety interview - I did not like the first one on Nov/ early Dec, this being the mid/late December one). He connected with me, I think due to a similar journey of enlightenment over the last few years.
Just to clarify - not a dig as I know you are talking about strategy and how to connect. Not that you are saying whoever tells the best knock knock joke should be president (or necessarily will be).
Oh, is he running again?
But Billyboy Clinton has lost a lot of his mojo and a lot of my respect. His triangulated-out-the-ass lie that he opposed the Iraq invasion from the start?! MY ASS! He and Hillary were ALL OVER IT! Bush’s invasion was just an extension of Clinton’s starve-the-Iraqis-and-bomb-the-crap-out-of-them policy.
Bill cannot force Hillary upon us. The magic is mostly gone and it is time for new blood and MUCH newer ideas that do not in any way involve triangulating or backslapping with corporate scum.
In fairness, Jane, it was a good post. In the strictest sense, they’re ALL whoring after the nomination, and it has to be degrading to one’s sense of self, to be forever getting up and bragging on yourself.
And that $3 bil a week, being pissed into the sand, would pay for a LOT of health care.
What Praedor said. My 2c; I don’t want to hear the words “Clinton” or “bush” mentioned again, in connection with the presidency.
I say this is an ill-timed post… the guy has been campaigning non-stop for months, and is nearing the end. He has had much fiercer opponents than F*ckabee… he’s fighting for his political life and for the life of middle class Americans.
Give the guy a break… sure your comparisons with Huckabee are natural since you just saw him the night before, but I doubt many at the hall saw the F*ckster the night before.
Go Edwards! I’ll be so depressed if the corporate media succeed once again in leading Iowans, and by default, the American sheeple astray.
The Clintons have set the lowest of possible bars for our body politic, followed in line by Gore and Kerry. Those who claim Bush is the worst ever; Bush is just jointly and severally liable with the Clintons.
Here’s to you. Praedor.
I say it might help to put things in perspective… the guy has been campaigning non-stop for months, and is nearing the end. He has had much fiercer opponents than F*ckabee… he’s fighting for his political life and for the life of middle class Americans.
I think we should give the guy a break… sure your comparisons with Huckabee are natural since you just saw him the night before, but I doubt many at the hall saw the F*ckster the night before.
Go Edwards! I’ll be so depressed if the corporate media succeed once again in leading Iowans, and by default, the American sheeple astray.
Hi Jane, and NO.
I’m not an Edwards supporter but these blogs on Firedoglake are a center of civil discourse and genuine enthusiasm and it’s a pleasure to visit here.
May the best person win!
I’m very saddened and conflicted today.
I have long supported and defended Dennis Kucinich and expect I will always appreciate his steadfast courage and actions speaking truth to power. His recognition of the need to stop our Congress from backing the neo-con conspiracy to force the “benchmark”, corporate-friendly hydrocarbon law on the Iraqi parliament and his call to impeach Cheney for his massive crimes against the Constitution are singularly crucial to supporting the very concept of justice. We all owe Dennis our gratitude. He is a leader with integrity standing high above his opportunistic colleagues.
But circumstances have converged to undermine my confidence. I just finished reading Naomi Klein’s “Shock Doctrine”, and it has had a profound effect on me, illuminating a wider arena of our political circumstance than I knew existed and confirming many of my greatest fears. Some of those fears, ironically, had been brought to my attention by Dennis Kucinich. Free-market corporate control through forced privatization is the essence of both the proposed “Iraq oil and gas law” which Dennis exposed on the floor of the House in a historic hour last May, and the decades-long disaster capitalist conspiracy detailed in Naomi’s stunning compilation.
I guess I must have been in denial since Dennis proposed a cross-party ticket with himself and Ron Paul about a month ago, a slip I couldn’t let interfere with my appreciative loyalty to one who carries the banner for progressivism. I was aware of Paul’s Libertarian position and often tried to wake up his zombie-like followers, who appear ready to follow him blindly into ridding our society of any vestige of social justice as a side-effect of their honest zeal to quit our involvement in Iraq and disastrous free-market agreements. Maybe he was mis-quoted, or I didn’t really read that. After all, they’re diametrically opposed on health-care and tax reform. Can’t be.
I didn’t even rationalize it. I just denied it.
Now this. Throw support to Obama over Edwards? To say Edwards has a flawed record is an understatement. But to compare Obama’s regrets for his faults to Edwards’ honest contrition on Iraq and the bankruptcy bill, well, Obama seems to have no regrets for comparison, yet his short record certainly has much cause for regret. There is no single issue on which Obama is more progressive than Edwards. Yes, both are flawed candidates, but now, clearly, so is Dennis Kucinich.
This could have left me at quite an impasse, but I was really awakened by Norman Solomon’s comments today, and one in particular, “Presidential candidates have to be considered in the context of the current historical crossroads.”
Edwards is challenging power. He recognizes the dangers of oil dependence and global climate change. Edwards is pointing to excessive corporate influence as he appeals for economic justice. He is openly challenging the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. If he hasn’t read “The Shock Doctrine”, he is channeling it’s warnings.
Thank you Naomi, thank you Norman, and thank you Dennis. I won’t forget you, but it’s that crossroads where I must re-assess which road I should take. More than one has promise for real progress, but I can’t afford another breakdown on this journey.
If I were Obama, with the campaign Obama has run to this point, there’s no way I could choose Edwards as my running mate. If I were Edwards, looking for a running mate, I probably wouldn’t choose Obama. Their campaign themes are so different, it would be bizarre to see such a pairing. I don’t know who Obama can choose, but not Edwards.
I’m late to the party, but so what if John Edwards doesn’t always “connect” with his audience? I do not want a president with too much media training. I want one who channels Howard Beale (h/t Digby). And really, who would you really have a beer with? A perpetually mean-spirited fraternity boy screw-up until he was 40 who has never taken a single responsibility seriously? A nutcase preacher who sounds good at times and has a feral intelligence but no real understanding of anything important for a president to know? An effective, intelligent Harvard lawyer who nevertheless still seems to want to bring a penknife to a gunfight? An oh-so-serious, intelligent, effective class president who doesn’t know whether or how to genuinely laugh at life’s manifest absurdities? Or an intelligent, successful, committed candidate who does understand the predicament we are in, is righteously pissed off about it, doesn’t see anything at all funny in the situation, and will do something about it, and as a bonus can make Tweety look like the total dumbass that he really is?
Over and over the same idea comes up: Edward is a fighter. What progressives need and the Democrats in particular need right now is someone who will carry the fight to the opposition and not roll over in the face of resistance. If you want a progressive humorist, find the next Will Rogers. I have pointed out to others that Obama favors the audacity of hope. I favor the hope of audacity in the face of Republican challenges.
Interesting observations. I agree there are times Edwards needs to loosen up a bit or be more media savvy, but I certainly like his message. Huckabee’s patter doesn’t stand up to much scrutiny, either.