This pretty much encapsulates the entire presidential race in 2008 in two tidy quotes. First, an Iowan via Eugene Robinson:
I ran into Gary Levitz, a retired management consultant from Iowa City, at both the Edwards and Clinton events -- Iowans like to comparison-shop before they buy. "The Democrats have outstanding candidates, and it's difficult to tell them apart on the issues," he said. "You wish there was some way you could have them all."
Robinson goes on to talk about the success of the Edwards campaign once he turned up the heat -- turns out Americans in Iowa were ready for some righteous anger against the greedy crony's enriching themselves at the rest of our expense.
Just take a peek at the various positions and statements of candidates in both parties on federal contracting rules or executive power, constitutional and rule of law issues. For starters. And see what I mean by a "deep bench" versus "mixed nuts" comparison. Then take some time to read the various foreign policy candidate essays from Foreign Affairs, and get a real taste of those GOP mixed nuts. (The Giuliani one is an especially "chock full o' nuts" extravaganza.) And across a whole spectrum of issues.
For the GOP, I couldn't sum it up any better than disaffected and now former Republican, John Cole at Balloon Juice:
...Giuliani is tanking, Thompson is sleeping, and, most importantly, Huckabee is surging (and you can expect to see more attacks like this from the establishment), and something had to be done, and done quickly, or the corporate establishment might lose all control of the race. As such, NRO offers a glimmer of honesty:
More than the other primary candidates, Romney has President Bush’s virtues and avoids his flaws. His moral positions, and his instincts on taxes and foreign policy, are the same. But he is less inclined to federal activism, less tolerant of overspending, better able to defend conservative positions in debate, and more likely to demand performance from his subordinates. A winning combination, by our lights.
Everything but the bolded portion is simple nonsense. They think Romney can win, and that is all that matters. Because it sure as hell isn’t Romney’s record that is convincing them to support him. At any rate, it should be fun to watch the evangelical base get alienated by the party elites as the establishment candidate is rammed down their collective throats and the go for-the-throat right-wing media do what they can to strangle Huckabee’s campaign in the crib....
Grab the popcorn and soda, because the GOP is providing the nuts.
Nuts, indeed. Just take a peek at Stoller's review of the latest "full spectrum Republican" ad from Team Romney and try not to laugh at the "winning combination" selection. After reading through the IHT reviews of the various GOP campaign styles, I'm not certain that "nuts" goes far enough....
(H/T to dakine)
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Christy!
Hello, Christy…
Told them downstairs; now to read the post!
Ann, where in AZ? Tucson and Tempe are my old stompin’ grounds. I had every intention of going back until I met Redd. I do miss the desert sometimes still.
Ann in AZ:
Did you see my response to you in the last thread?
MrRedd in the house… Hello.
The GOoP-er bench is best described as a Shitheelpalooza.
-G
hiya Christy!
CHS!! Romney is just as nuts as the rest of the Republican field.
D bench is deep only by comparison to the Rs. Neither Obama nor Hillary is very progressive. Yeah, they’re smart and they work hard (and I’ve been told that Obama is charismatic, but I’m not charisma-enabled, so you can’t prove it by me), but they don’t share my values.
MrReddHedd on the thread!
I went to ASU Law with Bmaz 1982-84. When were you there?
Hey all — SO glad I filled up our bird feeders, because they are being emptied by hordes of snow-covered birdies today. Do take the time to click through a number of the links in the post — some great analysis, statement and policy prescription snippets, and a whole lot of useful information on candidate positions on both sides of the aisle. With all the upcoming primaries and caucuses, thought folks might find a compilation like this useful…
Welcome MrReddHedd - delightful surprise.
OT This via Froomkin:
Yeah, right. That’s why at the Bali climate summit which ended just over two weeks ago the agreement was for 2 years of negotiations knowing that Bush would be gone in 1. So my question is: Does Peter Baker have Alzheimer’s (aka shillotosis) that he can’t remember a conference that ended a half a month ago? What stenography!
As I’ve said before many times: Smart Repugs know they’re f*cked with respect to their prez candidates. Not one of them is electable. Not a one.
Happy Hew Year Christy and Mr ReddHedd. If nothing else the GOP bench makes it pretty clear that there will be a Dem in the White House next year. What is distressing is watching some of the Dems use the GOP talking points against each other. I have come the painful realization that nothing short of some kind of revolution in Washington is going to make a difference and right now the only viable candidate capable of such a revolution I see is Edwards.
I’ll take Yet Another Attempt At Reputation Rehab for $1000, Alex…
Greetings to you all (or y’all as we like to say). Just taking a moment to catch up on Christy’s political thinking. Its a nice break from my somewhat stuffy, conservative surroundings :-)
Teddy - the plastic pooping dog Christy brought home from SF is still the big conversation starter in my office.
OT: Tom Lantos has cancer and will not be seeking relection.
Oil today hit $100 a barrel. Gold up over $20 today.
I’m surprised that there hasn’t been more of an overt (as opposed to the passive-aggressive Fox denial of a seat at the debate) attack on Ron Paul by the R establishment, after his saying Sunday, on MTP, that he would “absolutely” cut off all aid to Israel if elected
Yeah! This is great. Thanks for putting it together.
Did you coin that? I need to know because I intend to incorporate it into my vocabulary immediately & I want to get the attribution accurate.
Hear, hear!
Since the entire point of this post was comparing the Dems and Republicans to each other, that was pretty much what I was saying. And, frankly, pretty much what polling is saying: Dem undecideds in a lot of different areas are undecided because they have several candidates from which to choose that they seem to like, GOP voters are saying they are undecided — at a much higher rate than Dems btw — because they are having to force themselves to hold their nose and vote for someone in their line-up, and they are not happy about it.
Was that courage or a death wish?
See, that’s my take as well. And it worries me. The GOP is going to go negative as soon as the nominee is named and you can bet they’ve got a mighty s***load of dirt already prepared for Hillary at least. The only way they’ll win is by making their nominee the Lesser of Evils and the Dem nominee the Evil of Lessers.
And the GOP is much better at that sort of mudslinging than the Dems are at responding.
Boxturtle (Note: 1 mighty s***load = 2.5 metric s***loads)
I was there from ‘88 to ‘90. Finished my M.A. and taught German. Then it was off to Wild, Wonderful and hopefully Victorius West Virginia for law school.
26 was in reply to #21
From WarOnWarOff in the previous thread:
Somehow I don’t think the Ivy League educated GOP elite trying to stop Huck spend much time with the home-schoolers or are even comfortable in their presence.
Greetings and blessings in 2008 to Mr. and Mrs. Reddhedd!
Mr. Reddhedd, loved that you gently encouraged Christy (I think you held the remote that day according to Christy) to watch Ruddi and learn. Christy’s post that day had me laughing all day.
An aside, Christy, here in Columbus, Ohio people still talk about wanting Gore in the race.
Thanks for pulling this together. A nice mix of resources.
Impeachment, anyone?:
Democrats.com:
Several activists from World Can’t Wait, joined by other antiwar activists are at Jerold Nadler’s Brooklyn office today. They don’t intend to leave until they get a commitment from Nadler to get impeachment started in the House Judiciary Committee. They are requesting that you put out the word, asking people to call Nadler’s offices to make the same demand.
Washington Office: Tel. 202-225-5635
Manhattan Office: Tel. 212-367-7350
Brooklyn Office: Tel. 718-373-3198
What do you think, Christy? Should we make some calls?
Just to pat myself on the back a bit, I pegged this situation pretty well at Needlenose in July 2004, looking at the lineups for the respective parties’ conventions.
Where he was lucky enough to meet me and have his life altered for the better for all eternity. *g*
the only good gooper is Lincoln Chaffee
Glendale. Moved to the area in 1985 from Portage IN, but I lived in Gary most of my life. Haven’t been back since I left, though.
And yes, Biodun, I see where you’re also an Edwards man and that remark was meant to be snark. Should’ve known! Glad you’re on our side!
Lahoma tells me:
The polls and the pundits, and it seems,just about everyone else is telling us that Americans want change and are pissed-off. Well okay, Americans… you want change? It’s up to you. You certainly arent’t going to get it voting Republican next November.
Hi Christy - those birdies have a good thing going @ the Smiths’ bistro. Hello, Mr. Reddhedd! Will read now…
What, if anything, do you think it would take to make Rs hold their nose & vote D? (Not the moderates, but the more extreme ones.) Don’t feel obliged to respond. Just a mental exercise.
OT: Matt Stoller has five significant agendas for the next president that are never mentioned in the campaign: http://openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=2924
I realize we’re not Iowa, but something interesting’s happening in rural Western Washington, according to the Seattle Times. The formerly strong R areas have now gone D. A large number of R’s have reregistered as independents. To be an R in Western Washington at this point either means one can’t reason, or one got dropped on his or her head as a child.
Of course, the yahoo down the block from us with the Thompson sign in his yard hasn’t gotten the memo yet, but somehow, I’m thinking it’s not going to happen for him. I’ll be really interested to see the yard signs sprouting up as the months wear on; one of our reps assures me that the area is full of Reps turned Dems now.
-S
IMHO, you’d have to convince them that Reaganomics doesn’t work. And you could point to the subprime meltdown and healthcare, where throughout the industrialized world greater government involvement delivers better care and less than half the per-person cost.
From the post:
“Robinson goes on to talk about the success of the Edwards campaign once he turned up the heat”
Oh what could’ve been. I feel he was over-consulted once again, which he has admitted in the past was a problem for him, and suffered from a paralysis of analysis the first 3/4 of his campaign so far. Just think if he now had some of that collective energy that Dodd received from the Telco stand, and much of Dennis’s support. I think Edwards could have harnessed much of that from the beginning, if he would’ve been talking like he is now. I remember seeing several appearance by Edwards over the Summer/Fall, and thinking WTF happened to this guy?!? Hope it’s not too late for him now.
This happens over and over again. When a Dem starts coming out swinging, they start gaining support. Will they ever learn?
Well, I can’t document it, but I’ve been saying with every new R declarer that not a single one’s electable.
Going out to ski in Utah on Saturday. I’ll try to figure out what the local spin on Romney is, though the lodge I stay at is pretty divorced from the real Utah.
Believe me, the Repubs are so deep in their own mud, they won’t be able to take a step without getting bogged down….They are the one’s that should worry about what they’ve gotten themselves into…really.
I’m not certain that anything, save God coming down from on high and personally order the 28 percent die-hard wingnut and neocon crowd to vote for a D would do it. And even then, there would be a sizeable chunk of hold-outs, whomever the D candidate might be. There has been too much of a constant barrage of demonization of all things D by the likes of Limbaugh and Malkin and the shillocracy, as well as the sort of disinformation and dirty trick outright lie-a-thon politics of Rove, Reed, Norquist and Co. — and those divisions are hardened into concrete hatred of any and everything D that is going to take generations to undo.
As for the rest, some principled stands on rule of law and constitutional issues, real discussion on honest terms about economic difficulties and the like might appeal to certain swatchs of the fiscal conservatives or libertarians. But, frankly, the bar is so low after Bush for just plain competence as an attractive quality that this might be all it would take.
What do you guys think?
And Edward has Joe Trippi this year. When will they ever learn?
Let’s see how many of those former R voters may rethink as a result of getting caught in a subprime mortgage meltdown and learning that bankruptcy will not discharge the credit card debt they’ve run up on food and gas for the SUV.
Of course, this is IMHO.
-S
[emphasis added] You know something we don’t?
An interesting test case in response to my 39. So what made them change? Any particular issue, or “all of the above?” And when was the tipping point?
OT - my neighbor mentioned Kos changed his presidential endorsement - anyone know if this is true?
Was that courage or a death wish?
good question. I don’t know that it was an intentional political death wish, but it should, I would think, provide that result. Grossly naive, to say the least. Paul himself probably thinks it to be a courageous stand, unaware that he sank his own battleship.
Immediately after I heard him say that, I posted here that the guy could end up in a dumpster somewhere… (and was only half kidding).
Justice Department naming outside prosecutor in CIA tape destruction case!!! CNN
The trouble is that the MSM doesn’t tie these phenomena to their root causes. They are described as though they were a deus ex machina, divorced from the people who perpetrated them. You have to read a book to understand the links.
well, it seems like Edwards has passed Obama and caught the hill
that’s great friggin news, Edwards is a real progressive
now take a look at this
I am guessing they read the lake, I mentioned that downstairs and was really surprised nobody else was talking about it;
that is a really bizarre moment in the “attack add” from huck and I mentioned that downstairs, this “man of the cloth” actually thinks it’s criticism that mitt didn’t have anyone executed
and that guy is running for president
man, repukes have to be turning a putrid color right about now
Who is going to lie for Cheney this time?
Trippi and “Muflap” Saunders no less.
http://firedoglake.com/2007/06.....ouldnt-be/
Mudhead thinks Scooter Libby was much ado about nothing. This is one of Edwards’ main campaign advisers.
She’s catering to my mormon heritage :-)
Any Democratic candidate is far and away better than any of the GOP-nuts. Hopefully the indies know that.
woo hoo - my first reaction was this is too good to be true! Paging Patrick Fitzgerald to da red phone.
think they will have the nerve to appoint the fitz?
What do you guys think?
I’m worried about how they’re gonna turn that 28% into 51%. Aside from the problems of voting machines, “caging’ is still alive, well and ready to be trotted back out, upgraded and improved, for 2008.
As far as I know I just coined it. But I wouldn’t put it past one of the other wordsmith’s around here having made it up before me.
Re Repub candidates - not merely mixed nuts, but past stale and all the way to rancid mixed nuts.
LS - where’d you get the “outside” part? All I can find is DOJ invrestigating.
Oh boy. Can we trust Mukasey? Does a special outside prosecutor have to be approved by Congress?
See Stratergery @ 41.
It’s already happening, and with
piss poorno D leadership. Think what could happen if you had some real D leadership.Almost:
Don’t forget that “Mudcat” IS the second string on the Edwards team. His first string were Amanda Marcotte and Melissa McEwan who had the audacity to be free thinking and independent women, which Bill Donohue of the Catholic League couldn’t abide.
Edwards did NOT do himself any favors by accepting the resingations of those two wonderful women.
It’s yours!
No, Cheney would use his powers as the fourth branch of government to fire the new attorney general before he would let that happen.
Yes, always good to keep that in mind. And the Ds aren’t doing anything about that either.
CNN’s words on the teevee…
Speaking of Edwards:
I’m not quite sure what to make of Nader’s endorsement. Sure Edwards is anti-corporate. But as far as I’m concerned (aka in my book), Nader will always be suspect because of 2000.
Do you think this worries the GOP (greedy old party) at all? Quite the opposite, I think. I wish the Democrats would hammer the Republicans on this.
AP - Crude oil prices soared to $100 a barrel Wednesday for the first time, reaching that milestone amid an unshakeable view that global demand for oil and petroleum products will outstrip supplies.
Someone would have to make them a serious campaign issue. And the only thing that would cause that would be for Ron Paul to take the Republican nomination, of which there’s no chance in hell.
Hey–Thanks for that!
TPM:
Mukasey named John Durham, a federal prosecutor in Connecticut, to oversee the case.
John Durham???
yup - from Obama to Edwards, I think…
I believe that the racist homophobic neo-Confederate theocratic batshit-crazy base will never ever vote for a Democratic candidate. Never. They actually believe that Democrats are traitors who genuinely hate America and Jesus, and want to establish a secular gay communist dictatorship.
The neo-conservatives and corporatists could vote for someone like Clinton or Obama, as they could both be perceived as likely to continue a corporate-friendly and AIPAC-friendly domestic and foreign policy (which are, of course, intertwined). Edwards’s economic and foreign-policy populism probably makes him a non-starter for these Republicans.
As a matter of Democratic strategy, however, I think it is foolish to attempt to siphon off Republican voters. Let’s play to the core base of the Democratic Party. The Republican strategy of playing solely to their base was effective when the Democratic base was splintering (in large part due to effective Republican propaganda tactics). Now it is the Republican base that is splintering, and I think the Democratic candidate can win handily without “reaching across the aisle”.
Had to laugh at the Ron Paul part of your remark. He does make me nostalgic for the days when the prez candidates thought we had triple digit IQs.
……continue to bend over America……..
Dood, the Rs find nothing wrong with that. They’d make suicide bombing a capital offense and feel a sense of accomplishment.
Here’s all I can find on their site. One sentence. Reads as though the DOJ will be doing the investigating. Looks to me like another delaying tactic.
WASHINGTON (CNN) — Federal prosecutors plan to begin a formal criminal investigation into the destruction of CIA videotapes that showed the interrogation of terrorism suspects, the Justice Department said Wednesday.
From TPMMuckraker:
“The Department’s National Security Division has recommended, and I have concluded, that there is a basis for initiating a criminal investigation of this matter, and I have taken steps to begin that investigation,” Mukasey said in a statement released Wednesday.”
Michael Moore all but endorses Edwards [his website via HuffPo]
Matt Taiibbi [sp?] calls the Republican field the Addams Family.
The raw numbers must be watched, as well as the percentages. How many are there left who will call themselves Republicans under this crowd?
And Romney taking shots at the Clintons in the White House.
And John Hockenberry says GE/NBC diverted him from pursuing al Qaeda story after 9/11…not good for GE/binLaden bidness relationship? How very BushCo. No wonder Matalin was sure Russert was a shoo-in for the WHIG to get their story out.
they will also under equip democratic precincts, they will also remove democrats from eligibility
we need a landslide just to look like we barely won
The dems consultants have much to be proud of. They write the best concession speeches in the business.
Thank you Old Coastie - oh so pleased Kos changed his mind…never understood his Obama crush.
Bill Donohue is the “Catholic League”: a nutjob in his basement with a cable modem and the phone numbers of some somewhat powerful wingnuts.
Could Edwards have been any more flaccid during that dust-up? Reaks of over analysis. Be real John, and the people will follow.
I long for the day when Jane, Christy, and Marcy are sought-after campaign consultants instead Trippi and Mudflap Saunders. That will happen someday, right? I’m patient, but life’s short, ya know…
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/
This John Durham?:
Who is John Durham?
Durham, a well renowned federal prosecutor was hand picked in 1998 by Attorney General Janet Reno to investigate allegations that, for decades, FBI agents and police officers had been compromised by the mob. Durham soon discovered that FBI Special Agent John Connelly had assisted the mob in at least three murders. Durham successfully prosecuted these cases and earned praise from his colleagues for his integrity and perfectionism.
After gangs took over the streets of Hartford in the early 1990, Durham was appointed to a joint Federal, State and local gang task force. As supervising prosecutor for the Federal Northern Violent Crimes Task Force, Durham oversaw numerous federal investigations and prosecutions, crippling the gangs. At various different times Hartford Police Officer Robert Lawlor worked on this task force.
Very intelligently stated. And I agree with your conclusion. Lakoff was on C-SPAN2 in the past couple of days, and said: ‘There are no votes in the middle.” He said it in the context that people vote their values and the more you mush those up by moving toward the center, the less you appeal to anyone.
But here’s two specfic examples of hard core Rs that are moving toward D:
*NRA hunter types who are really pissed at W’s corporate wilderness rape.
*Religious types who believe in the beatitudes instead of the prosperity doctrine.
In other words, their own values are leading them away from the Rs. Ds don’t need to change theirs in oder to caputre them.
Yes, we must bring the suicide bombers to justice.
Assuming this article is about the same John Durham, he seems to be a career prosecutor with experience prosecuting serious wrongdoing by government officials, including FBI agents. So, it looks like this is not being given to a Bush regime partisan hack.
Mike Taibbi….
Thanks - Here’s Pete Williams. “Outside” apparently means someone in the DOJ from Connecticut.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22474868/
I’m guessing you all have seen the fdl mention in the wapoo?
I meant the son, Matt…
Forgot the link:
http://www.laborers.org/Hartfo.....-28-01.htm
Of all the days to be busy.
Howdy Mr. Redd Hedd.
The scapegoat is being groomed as we type I presume. Who will take the fall for the team? Gone-zales? Rove? Some lackey we never heard of?
I read yesterday over at kos that Markos was going to vote for Obama until Obama made his comments about the 2004 election to the effect he didn’t want to go into the 2008 election with half the country against him.
Good quote for Jane!
won’t be rove, they’re afraid of him, he be bat shit
From the WaPo link:
What took him so long? I abandoned the man, it seems, eons ago, when it was pretty clear he burned his bridges with netroots.
Perris - thank you for the laugh. I needed it today.
Bless you Old Coastie for the linky - cleared up my kos confusion. Geez some of the comments there are rude & crude. ;~)
yep, me too. Thanks for the editing, Biodun! II ggoott ttoooo mmaannyy ii’s in there, hurrying.
Does anyone have thoughts about Mike Bloomberg entering the race and whether this would change the dynamic for the GOP, i.e., would he take independents away from Democrats?
Well, it’s not as if the feeling isn’t mutual at this point. Hard to overlook some of the lethal shit they’ve been pelting! OTOH, if some of them wants to help us put Habeas Corpus back in it’s rightful place in law, and restore the Constitution and Bill of Rights to their former positions of honor, it would go a long way to salving our burnt collective sense of decency.
As for fiscal conservatives, they’ll never forgive us for the National Healthcare plan that we’re about to demand.
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