Making a sustained argument against Goldberg’s book would be like trying to fuck air.

Nice come back, Blue Texan. ;-)

LOL – made me laugh out loud today. First time this year. thanks. And agree about trying to argue with him. Just trying to read his nonsensical writing gives me a headache, let alone analyze and decipher the garbage. Why, oh why is that man/boy still hanging around. He and Jeff Gannon must be in someone’s good graces.

I’ll bet the mama’s boy is upset because NOBODY is writing about his little screed. Poor baby – not.

I quit taking the LA Times- Goldberg being part of the reason. Not worth reading ever. He is too lazy to research a column and prefers to blast away with unsubstantiated “opinions”. Not worth the powder it would take to blow him to gooper hell.

Incredibly, conservatives have also refused to give serious attention to my “Republicans are racists” thesis.

Jonah, I learned one thing as a college security officer. Never try to reason with someone who is drunk.

It is not worth the time or the effort.

Jonah, feel free to minimize the Holocaust by claiming that white men in America are equivalent to Jews in Nazi Germany.

Seems to me you should use the term: Never Remember.

-G

didn’t know that Iraq had Sunnis and Shiites.

He also doesn’t know Shiite from Shine-ola

Cool! I made a Grandma laugh!

If you really want to laugh, you should check out Sadly, No!’s necropsy of the book.

http://www.sadlyno.com/index.php?s=liberal+fascism

He also doesn’t know Shiite from Shine-ola

LOL!

Somehow, Blue Texan, I don’t think he’ll understand your blunt, clear critique. Besides, he spent SO much time on his book! Waaah!

When arguing with pixies, it’s hard to argue against the existence of pixie dust. They just don’t get it.

Hey GrandmaJ

Great big Deaniac hug at ya for New Years!

A liberal fascist? How does that work?

And I’m a female grade-school teacher, although most people use the term elementary teacher. Schoolteacher has its own connotations.

Maybe they aren’t stupid. Maybe they are just mean and selfish.

Fascism:

http://www.secularhumanism.org…..britt_23_2

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

[…]

And, 9 more key elements of fascism to follow at the above link.

So, is Jonah trying to tell us that it’s the neocons who are the tree huggers, the peace embracers, and the ones who take to the streets to hold their government accountable for their criminal actions?

One of the great oxymorons for out time.

So are the liberals fascist only when they aren’t cutting and running, capitulating, being weak, wishy washy, vacillating, flip-floppy, soft, surrendering and appeasing?

-G

Maybe they aren’t stupid. Maybe they are just mean and selfish.

No, by and large, they’re stupid. And proud of it.

Solai — Even the pundits and the ones in the magazines are stupid?

Well, Goldberg’s book title suggests it’s a good idea for liberals to move farther to the left if they want to get away from the fascist right.

Did he bother to look up the word in the dictionary? I know, I know. It’s pure and simple projection and he’s creating a negative false frame. They trashed the word liberal so he’s trying embellish upon it. Take a good look in the mirror Jonah if you’re wondering what a supporter of fascism looks like.

- Tom

Maybe they aren’t stupid. Maybe they are just mean and selfish.

Stupid and mean and selfish are not mutually exclusive. In fact it often seems that all of the above is redundant.

Hi, SnarK!

Goldberg is all three.

If you really want to laugh, you should check out Sadly, No!’s necropsy of the book.

Oh, absolutely! However, do post a major spew alert or there will be a whole lot of new monitors and keyboards being purchased…

He manages to paint the bloggers as “inane or deranged,” which dismissal he’s bound to use if someone suffers through his book and “seriously” dissects it.

Hi Physioprof!

casserooo

Note to everyone commenting: if you repeat or try to negate Goldberg’s false frame (i.e. don’t think of an elephant), you are helping him by activating and reinforcing it. Come up with a powerful different frame or just make fun of it and him in general.

- Tom

Some of us ARE insane !

Jonah boy has the same problem as that unindicted criminal Rove; They project their weaknesses on their opponent like KayinMaine’s #3 above.

I don’t know what he’s complaining about. His “book” is at #298 on Amazon’s list, while fellow dynast Jenna’s “book” is just at #1,483.

Here we go, though: they both weigh 1.6 lbs., but Jonah’s is 496 pages versus Jenna’s 304. SOMEONE GOT NICER PAPER!!!

It’s a non-argument guys. They are mean, selfish AND stupid.

Using Goldberg’s logic, he is a Nazi because he is built like Herman Goering.

The Doughy Pantload is a modern day Storm Pooper.

-G

Shorter Jonah Goldberg:
“Why won’t ANYONE take me SERIOUSLY! I wrote a BOOK, goddamnit!” *STAMP*

I think the best approach is a judicious gumbo of factual debunking, personal mockery, and laughing our asses off.

Sadly,No! has been getting this exactly right.

LooHoo, how does it feel to know that YOU are

The quintessential liberal fascist

…

Goldberg: I wish these inane and deranged people would offer some cogent analysis.

-G

These that seem to have control of the news are not conservatives, as I told my late father they weren’t his conservatives but Nazis. One day in the middle of King G 1st term he looked at me and said I was right, they weren’t the conservatives of his past. I hope none you bought this book, the last thing they need is support.
jo6pac

Huh? I made a comment at #2. Thanks. ;-)

The last “thoughtful” conservative in American political and social discourse was William F. Buckley. And given that his thought has been misused to justify the oligarchs’ usurpation of power, I’m not really sure that there is a conservative political and social book that I’m willing to read at the point.

Maybe we can critique him with the seriousness he craves after I finish researching my opus, Conservative Marxists. Just as a hint, Engels was rich and Marx used a wide stance.

Solai — Even the pundits and the ones in the magazines are stupid?

My theory…those that are devious have figured out a way to con the ’stupid’ into following them. Think all those grads from the Pat Roberson school. Think all the Christians who have stopped following the teachings of Jesus because their corrupt religious leader uses the name of Jesus in every sentence but don’t preach the words of Jesus. Think all the bigots out there who find solace when someone like Lou Dobbs gives educated ‘reasons’ for their hatred. Think all the Larry Craig voters who are suckered by all his ‘family values’ bull but never even consider that there’s nothing wrong with homosexuality.
There are lots of examples. It’s just easier to follow blindly.

In a sad twist of irony Jim, you’re doing the same thing here that you’re accusing GrandmaJ as doing. LOL Just thought I’d point that out!

BT – I love this. Makes my little skinny fingers itch to run across the keyboard pounding out comments.

Yes, the Blind Followers are stupid. How do I know this? I’ve had to deal with them in my family, in the work place and working on political campaigns.

Here is a tidbit from the last election. I vote in Nevada. The University of Nevada in Reno (UNR) made a documentary on voters in the upcoming election. On the day of Dick Cheney’s Reno appearance to the Reno constituents, the UNR documentary students asked the same question of each person standing in the looonnnnggggg line to see/hear Dick Cheney. (Aside: I was among the protesters on the outside) They went from person to person, down the line, and asked one question. What do you think of the NeoCons’ influence on the Republican Party? Pretty simple question, I’d say. I kid you not, not one person ever heard of the word “NeoCon”. They had no idea what it meant nor its importance. They just looked like a deer in the headlights as they said to the camera they never heard of a NeoCon. The documentary is on record.

In my family they vote for whatever straw dog the Repugs put out there. Examples: Amending the Constitution to say marriage is between a man and a woman only. Or, anticontraceptives. Or, burning the flag. They brag about being driven by one issue only. They also don’t read, anything. They watch Fox news only, once a week. They vote for the person their local minister (guy who flunked out of the working world and hung out a shingle in a space calling himself a church of the Lord). Bush was sent by God.

I’ve never been able to have an intelligent conversation with the Blind Followers.

I was wondering have you tried Anti War.Com? There is some serious conservatives and Libs there.
jo6pac

Jonah Goldberg needs to write a thoughtful book first. I will be be happy to write a critique on any of his unthoughtful utterences. If the money is there.

Shorter Jonah Goldberg:
“Why won’t ANYONE take me SERIOUSLY! I wrote a BOOK, goddamnit!” *STAMP*

Um, wouldn’t “typed” be more accurate than “wrote?” Unless, of course, he scribbled it in crayon and had someone else type it for him…

My apologies. I should have been more clear. I was referring to projection as scapegoating in your definition of Fascism above. My apologies.

Hi
Ever read Eric Hoffer the True Believer and you would really understand the Blind Followers. I like your name better.
jo6pac

A thought just occurred to me. It’s been said that the biggest problem with American schools is that they teach to the test rather than teaching the student to really think. Maybe that’s intentional.

For some reason Mr. Golberg many times reminds me of Tucker Carlson. Perhaps it’s the common thread of banality shared by both of these intellectuals.

Wow. I haven’t been able to jump in the lake for awhile due to family and holiday fun. This morning Mr. Gnome and one of our good friends were having one of their perennial arguments. Mr. Gnome mentioned this new book that had just come out called “Liberal Fascism” that he was really interested in reading. (Being somewhat of an anarchist he loves the ol’ “scratch a liberal” motif.) And Blue Texan comes to my rescue! As soon as Mr. Gnome gets off the phone with his sister I will read the post to him. He has no idea who Jonah Goldberg is. Thanks Blue!

Tucker’s an intellectual?

But you do have to think on the tests.

I’m trying to wrap my head around it! Maybe it’s a compliment!

I agree. Know what’s in it (for as long as you can stand reading it) but don’t financially support it. Go to Borders, buy a cup of java and read it there. You’re informed and didn’t spend a dime (except for the java but that is out of respect for using Borders real estate). Make it up to Borders next time you purchase a book worth being in your collection.

“The quintessential liberal fascist isn’t an SS storm trooper; it is a female grade-school teacher with an education degree from Brown or Swarthmore.”

well, jonah, let’s start with the above quoted sentence: A female is a “she”, not an “it”. “Grade school” does not require a hyphen. you are a writer(?) who doesn’t know the proper use of pronouns or punctuation. that’s two errors in one sentence. i suppose a non-writer gets a non-editor. and, finally, you expect a progressive to spend time offering you a critique of your oxymoronic screed. have you no chutzpah? i know chutzpah and it ain’t chopped liver.

Evene in the ’60s and earlier, it was quite rare to have many teachers at the HS or Jr High level who actually taught students how to think. Most of us were fortunate if we had one or two who challenged the CW.

If we were lucky, we landed college courses that asked us to do more than provide rote memorization of names and dates and actually demanded that we learn WHY things had happened in history or science or political affairs.

I can never get past the notion that Jonah has never quite emerged from his mother’s womb.

It wasn’t my definition of fascism either, Jim. LOL Jim, get yourself some coffee. The same was suggested to me earlier as well. Believe me, it helps. ;-)

Karl was also an investor in the stock market.

Dear Mr.Goldber:

Loved your book. For your next creative effort, I suggest you imitate the style of George Plympton. If you could go through Army or Marine Corps basic training, and film a documentary, I’m sure millions of us would pay considerable sums to watch.

Tucker’s an intellectual?

Tuckery (and Jonah) are ineffectuals…

Eeew. EEEW. Just really, really, really EEEEEWWW!

Acrid sarcasm. Snark if you will. ;0) Happy New Year!

Of course it’s intentional. NCLB was part of the master Plan. By 2013 all children in America will either be “Proficient” or they’ll be in private schools on the public dime. This includes second language learners and special ed kids. Not (and get a load of these terms) Basic, Below Basic, or Far Below Basic, but Proficient or Advanced.

Ever read Eric Hoffer the True Believer and you would really understand the Blind Followers. I like your name better.

That’s because I’m conservative. I conservative on gas, energy, frugal in almost everything, live simply and conservatively, conserve on my impact on the environment. And, I’m seriously financially conservative. That doesn’t mean being mean to those in need. There I practice generosity.

I do have an indulgence – I spoil my six pounder Molly terribly. Oh, and chocolate.

Yes, it was rather glib. May your coming year be the best for you. ;0)

okk

No one is more dangerous than an independent critical thinker. God forbid and burn the books.

Sounds like a conservative liberal fascist to me. It’s all so confusing.

Best I can tell, Goldberg’s definition of a fascist is anyone who wants him do, or forbear from doing, anything he doesn’t want to do, or refrain from doing, respectively.

Glib is good, just sometimes icky! Best of all New Years to you and yours.

Sounds like a conservative liberal fascist to me. It’s all so confusing.

LOL :D

Unwarranted self-assurance is one of the key characteristics of conservatives.

GrandmaJ, it’s because he’s part of the Wingnut Welfare State. He never need seek gainful employment so long as he tell rich right-wingers what they want to hear.

Only stuffed with more soft shit.

-G

kiddo January 1st, 2008 at 12:45 pm
58
“I can never get past the notion that Jonah has never quite emerged from his mother’s womb.”

i’ve heard he goes back there and hangs out on weekends ………..

Ever notice how conservatives bash Elites for being smug and smart even though the conservatives often went to the same schools? Watching George Will attack Elites is hilarious. Yet Conservatives do claim to be smart they claim to be realist.
Larry Kudlow claims that he understands the real world because he thinks he understands business. Sure his advice on business could bankrupt you but we need to step up,
We need to challenge the conservatives by ignoring them more as irrelevant and talk about our ideas more. We need to force the GOP to respond to us.
However if you got some Snark thats burning a hole in your pocket.

The Federal Reserve should function to protect this country’s savings, not finance Wall Street’s wild spending schemes.

Bubbles Bernanke and Shitman Greenspan have taken our financial system beyond collapse. NYC banks and financial houses are broke. They must borrow like crazy from Asians and Arabs to keep their doors open.

Only one candidate has promised to close down the Federal Reserve, stop the printing of infinite sums of funny money, and protect our assets.

Ron Paul

Ha! All I had to do after reading Blue Texan’s post to Mr. Gnome was read PhysioProf’s comment at #1. He then got out a few reference books and I think we have put his liberal-fascism link out to pasture forever. Great way to start the new year.

As a final piece, in case he is unaware, you can let him know that Jonah is Lucianne’s son. As in Lucianne Goldberg of Whitewater/Linda Tripp infamy.

Isn’t Jonah Goldberg the lead actor in Fahrenheit 451?

Selfish is shortsighted its focused on short term gain as opposed to long term thinking which requires compassion and the desire to help others rather than hurt others to prove your own sick power. It takes strength and confidence to care about others besides yourself. It takes brains to make large groups work together and share equally.

My lady teaches grade school in a rural public school. She has read this post about Mr. Goldberg. For a change, I’m trying to calm HER down. All I can say little Jonah, is don’t let her catch you on the streets of this little sw Oklahoma town. Otherwise… ‘High Noon’ time. And I can promise, she will prevail.

you can let him know that Jonah is Lucianne’s son. As in Lucianne Goldberg of Whitewater/Linda Tripp infamy.
reply

for those of us too young to remember what she was infamous for …. please explain

I didn’t tell him specifically about that. I told him about the “idiot son” phenomenon of which he, tucker, alex, et al are members.

Consider the source Lahoma.

“Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.”

– Dean Wormer

Truer words never spoken.

Or we could just elect any of our Democratic candidates and they will work to pay the national debt down like Bill did. Lower the debt and you strengthen the currency. I admit that we need to stop printing so much money but with a Democrat in the White House I’m sure the Fed will stop printing money in an attempt to destroy a Democratic Presidency.

Taylor Marsh:

UPDATE: Two new Iowa polls are out today. In the Zogby poll, it’s Clinton 30, Obama 26, Edwards 25. In the CNN/Opinion Research poll, Hillary leads with 33 percent, Obama 31, Edwards 22.

The Des Moines Register poll adopts an unprecedented new turnout model for the caucuses, and its new poll is out of sync with the other polling done in the race.

When you look at Democrats who last time were 80% of the turnout, Hillary wins with that group by 6%, 33 to 27 for Obama and 25 for Edwards. And as David Yepsen points out, had their pollsters used the 2004 turnout model, Hillary would lead by 29 to 27, figures in line with the other polls. .. … ..

Insider Advantage, 12/28-12/29: Clinton 30, Edwards 29, Obama 22
Zogby, 12/27-12/30: Clinton 30, Edwards 26, Obama 26
Mason-Dixon, 12/26-12/28: Clinton 23, Edwards 24, Obama 22
Research 2000, 12/26-12/27: Clinton 28, Edwards 29, Obama 29
ARG, 12/26-12/28: Clinton 31, Edwards 24, Obama 24

Lucianne Goldberg’s wiki

In fact, Glenzilla critiqued a publisher’s summary of Goldberg’s book back in August 2006:
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot…..ainst.html

Larry Kudlow claims that he understands the real world because he thinks he understands business.

Father Guido Sarducci two minute MBA, “buy low, sell high”.

Just saw that Kucinich will send supporters to Obama. I have trouble believing this.

Father Guido has a far better grasp on basic economics than Larry Kudlow.

Kiddo, tell Lahoma that teachers like her and those horrible Brown and Swarthmore ed grads are the most important people in the future of the world. That is why little Jonah attacks them.

Cut your losses short, and let your profits run.

Well said.

QuakerGirl
True conservatives and Libs are closure than most would like to know.

True dat. Ya’ll doing that haka?

How does that make sense? Seems like he would support Edwards.

A oaradox I’ve noticed for years, is that many “conservatives” and/or Rethugs, who can make a decent living are politically ignorant, and much of this is not because they haven’t had the opportunity/environment for education, which is a tremendous problem for the majority of Americans, but because a conditioned prejudice denies them the opportunity to become educated.

Wall Street Murdoch Journal: Has college graduates working at the paper–some from the Ivy’s and so-called other ‘prestigious schools.

Same for IBD (Investor’s Business Daily)

Yet both papers have editorial pages that are systemic stupidity. This site sent several very talented people to blog live at the Libby trial (Christy, Jane, EW, and possibly LHP–I can’t remember maybe others and WSJ did not print one single news column on the Libby trial. EW and her commentors offered very high quality analysis of the whole Plame/Libby/White House involved situation, but not a spec of it was in the pages of the WSJ.

The editorials IBD are so factually inadequate and replete with so many delusions and non-sequitors, they’re embarassing. This is in a paper whose two pages of Tech reporting are excellent.

I know physicians/lawyers/professionals, all died in the wool Rethugs, who couldn’t begin to discuss any of the topics that are threads here, EW, Tbogg, Blue America or on any of the links.

Pocket veto/who’s Addington/how is Gillespie running much of the agenda/they don’t have a clue or care. They do think their tax breaks are better under a Republican but in truth they don’t make enough to really benefit substantively. They couldn’t name chairmen of committees in the House and Senate if their lives depended on it.

Under the caucus system, are supporters of those with less that 15 percent bound to follow their candidate’sinstructions?

Doesnt make sense to me either.
but there are diaries up on Kos.

Ah, the innocence of youth.

Lucianne Goldberg was considered by many to be the puppetmaster directing Linda Tripp’s actions in exposing the relationship her confidant, Monica Lewinsky, had with President Clinton while Lewinsky was a White House intern.

I’m sure the Rainbow Warriors will be doing their Bourbon St variant on the war dance but don’t have any special insight.

But I did pick ‘em in the pool (10 1/2 points is way to many to give).

They are called pimps these days.

I thought they bailed on the “Rainbow”?

I will. But right now I am still trying to get her to calm down. It takes a lot more to get her going than me. But when she becomes irritated, she’s a 110 lb. package of nitro. Very volatile.

Have a great coming year!

It’s all about gettin’ them Iowa people to the Cacuses Thurday:

OBAMA holds seven point lead in poll

HRC/Robo Cop (Votes with Bush in the Senate) Of Course, Disputes This

From Talk left Obama getting support from Non-Democrats
http://www.talkleft.com/
I was afraid of this. Just what we need Lieberman-esque

Don’t forget Betsy and Loo Hoo!

They may have – which tells you how long since I’ve been there.

The other thing is that Goldberg doesn’t take criticism well: http://glenngreenwald.blogspot…..ntrum.html

They need to show up at the caucuses as well.

Thanks for the correct term for those who support this regeime. They aren’t not conservative, if they were the coming nightmare know as Wall Street wouldn’t have happened.
jo6pac

From a Kos diary – insider projects big win for Edwards.:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..348/428844

She’ll will. But she’s not finished blowing up yet. ;0)

I was trying as hard as possible not to editorialize in my summary. How’d I do?

Oh, I thought you WERE there.

If by this you mean that Obama is in any way shape, form, Liebermanesque–where have you been for the past two years?

Obama is nothing like Lieberman who is arguably one of the worst performing Senators in history, and his coalition doesn’t resemble Lieberman’s voters in the least.

Very measured, hats off.

Everytime I see Larry he is pushing the Laffer Curve of less taxes will somehow cause government to collect more money in taxes which might work if our tax rates were much much higher and even then I’d need to see real world proof.
Then Larry will start to talk about Milton Friedman nonsense and then I start to worry if any kids are watching this crap. We need a Lefty business channel!
Real Change the homeless aper had a great bit on Finland socialized medicine and free University tuition? Which blew my mind because America is so much richer than Finland.

Goldberg believes he is entitled to a serious critique without earning it, just like everything else he’s gotten in his nepotistic life. If you don’t put forth serious ideas and serious research, you don’t deserve a serious critique, only mockery. So in truth he’s gotten exactly what he’s earned, for once.

Those people are ignorant and proud of it. Too busy and important to bother they heads with fact. Big-picture men. Deciders.

Only in my fantasies/imagination. Haven’t been back there since my discharge in 09/82. Currently in San Antonio.

Quick flyby — over at DailyKos, New Hampshirite MissLaura tells why she’s for Edwards. Interesting.

What tips it for her? Edwards the one articulating her sense of urgency.

Yep I’ve been following KOS. They’ve really had some excellent articles lately, if only I could find time to read ‘em all.

I’d be very happy with Edwards, although Obama is my first choice. He’s very competent and bright and in many ways these days, being an attorney that understands the workings of Congress is a plus for a President.

But if the past is any indicator, polls have missed in contrast to who shows up at the Caucuses and primaries.

We need a Lefty business channel!

Yeah.

Back in August, when the market was melting down, Jim Cramer was on some financial bobblehead show practically crying, begging the Fed to bail out his shitheel trader buddies in the investment banks: “I know those guys; they have families; waahh!” You can probably find this on YouTube.

All I could think was, “Cry me a fucking river”.

I guess it’s those leis on yer FB!

I might accept your statements if Obama hadn’t selected Short Ride as his mentor upon election to the senate and use all of Short Ride’s words in discussions. Plus his strong backing of Short Ride against Ned Lamont.

If he was so foreign in perspective to Short Ride and so against everything Short Ride is for, he would not have chosen the biggest cheerleader for the invasion/occupation as his mentor two years after the invasion and occupation began.

Perhaps Goldberg can become a columnist for the NY Times someday.

Aite, gotta check out for the Rose and Sugar. It’s gut wrenching to be an Alum of Illinois and Georgia. Send white light if you have xtra.

Actually those are beads “won” at the Gaspar festival in Tampa a couple of years ago.

Faulty target ID!

Best I can tell, Goldberg’s definition of a fascist is anyone who wants him do, or forbear from doing, anything he doesn’t want to do, or refrain from doing, respectively.

Pretty much. That would explain why he thinks Jimmy Carter asking people to turn down their thermostats is “fascism” but George Bush asking people to go shopping isn’t. (Well, if one is willing to believe that he’s making a judgment beyond GOP=good, Democrat=bad, that is.)

Kudlow? Is that the guy who always looks like his head is going to blow up and does a pretty good imitation of a crankster on an uninterruped thirty year binge.

So lefties are jack of all trades in thinking on issues we learn and adapt as we go along. I and others here have certainly learned many new subjects hanging out here just to keep up. Conservatives though prefer not to learn things that are not directly related to their field, or self interests? If I understand you correctly?
So if Conservatives are moving left as the polls suggest then the war the economy etc have then gotten so bad that they are not only paying attention, they are changing their minds!
Rove is going to blow a circuit, if he ever allows himself to think that thought!

I think early on, Obama and the rest of us didn’t realize the extent to which Leiberman was going to take neo-Con positions and become a Bush clone. Leiberman has gone down hill fast in the last few years and particularly the last two.

But if you listen to Obama-who can speak very well without a prompter and lines, and you drill into his advisors, his positions are nothing like a cheerleader for invasion/occupation Dover Coffin production/millions of displaced refugees/a qaulity of life that is much darker than the ones in Dostoyevsky’s novels/thousands of dead Iraqis.

I think HRC would do little to end the Iraq occupation for years; Edwards and Obama would make a substantive dent.

At Lefty Business Channel we would cry for all the people losing their homes thanks to the subprime crisis.

I disagree. Short Ride’s final step over to the dark side was well noted by ‘04. Yet it was after that election that Obama selected him as his mentor. If he couldn’t see what Short Ride was doing at that point as a war cheerleader and enabler of Bush, then his judgment has to be questioned today.

I don’t mean to sound as simplistic or to have blinders on that would make the broad brushstroke assumption that all conservatives aren’t interested in things not releated to their fields. That would be simply wrong and it would sell a lot of people short.

And some of them may have the capacity to change. I know that inwardly a lot of Republicans in Congress are deeply unhappy with the Bush administration,but that’s not stopping them or the Democrats from voting with Bush everytime. Watch how the Telco Immunity Bill componet of S. 2248 plays out. And as I’ve said ad nauseam the rest of S.2248 is ridiculous. Many people here ignore that the rest of S. 2248 is nebulous and puts control in the hands of Mukasey and McConnell and whoever comes after.

Where was Obama when Senator Dodd was standing on the floor of the Senate blocking 2248? Out campaigning is NOT showing the appropriate level of leadership.

I think Rove is pretty well aware of how bad things can get for them, but you’ll never here him talk about it and he’s very committed like most of his camp to a Unitary Executive.

But what I meant was that many of these professionals close their eyes/have blinders on when it comes to digging into the political issues beyond the surface and knowing what’s really going on.

If you talk to the types that attend these Bush/Republican fund raisers, they parrot the same simplistic lines that are all over the Republican blogs like:

“The surge is working”– Not hardly.

“We need a strong Republican President to protect us.” Complete Bullshit. They can’t govern. Bush and Condi were deep asleep at the switch and still are. Only a moron would think the current no-fly list 750,000 plus moving fast towards a million has anything to do with security.

It is very plausible that a dirty bomb or two could start a Jericho like scenario in the U.S.

Rudy facillitated deaths during 911 with stupid choices. NYC still has not improved communications frequencies and Big Biz like Clear Channel is not about to share those frequencies. Martin run FCC has done little to help it, nor have the two Dems on FCC tried.

“Republicans are the party of Fiscal Restraint.” What bullshit. They’ve spent far more money than any administration and for some very stupid things. Their management of defense money, Iraq, Pakistan has been abominably egregious.

I absolutely agree with you on that. But I don’t find it in balance a reason not to be for him. Remember as to Democrats, you have three people with a chance for the general to choose from.

I must have made 10 posts on threads here and at EW asking the same question about every Senator but Dodd–we’re talking HRC, Biden, and Edwards could have and should have shown up on the Senate floor (he absolutely has the privilege to be on the floor) symbolically to support Dodd.

Watch how Reid tries to fuck Dodd. Take a look over at Salon at Glenn Greeenwald’s excellent analysis of this the day after. Dodd took the floor

Glenn Greenwald has officially endorsed Atrios’ estimation of Jonah Goldberg as ” one of the stupidest people in our public discourse.”
http://www.salon.com/opinion/g…..index.html

However, I don’t think Glenn would bother writing for The American Conservative — nor would they be wanting to publish him — if their readers were stupid. Obviously there are plenty of intelligent conservatives. And guess what? There are plenty of stupid liberals. Come to think of it, this post is not exactly the greatest demonstration of liberal intelligence I’ve ever seen. all this being taken into account, one must admit that there are a great many stupid conservatives out there.

Ignore me, I’m practicing…

wangdangdoodle

YAY!!

I love that song.

Just when you thought there wasn’t a dime’s worth of difference between the two parties, the Republicans go and prove you’re wrong. – Molly Ivins (RIP)

It’s hard to take seriously or have a conversation with a person who doesn’t know the meaning of the word ‘liberal’ or ‘fascist’. That pretty much covers all Conservative Bush Republicans.

Just found a great post right on topic –
http://lastleftb4hooterville.b…..l#comments

It’s not that all Conservatives are stupid. It’s that the propaganda “movement Conservatism” celebrates dumbness as a virtue, and intelligence as a vice.

But it is such hard work being an idiot who can’t even read (let alone understand) history. Fascism is the conjoining of corporate power with the state–the exact antithesis of liberal America. It is time to make a stand against stupidity and fake “conservatism.”

The scary thing is, BT, you’ve offered far more support for your opinion than Goldberg did in his entire book.

Goldberg says he’s “not holding his breath.”

Is there something we can do to make him do so?

I’m of the opinion that parody is the best medicine and that one absurdly illogical argument deserves another. But someone such as Jonah Goldbrick–who has a book deal and all–would clearly know better than I would.

John Stuart Mill never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. He meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. It is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that hardly anyone will deny it.