President Bush on Friday used a "pocket veto" to reject a sweeping defense bill because he dislikes a provision that would expose the Iraqi government to expensive lawsuits seeking damages from the Saddam Hussein era.
(…)
Bush’s decision… means the legislation will die at midnight Dec. 31. This tactic for killing a bill can be used only when Congress is not in session.
The House last week adjourned until Jan. 15; the Senate returns a week later but has been holding brief, often seconds-long pro forma sessions every two or three days to prevent Bush from making appointments that otherwise would need Senate approval.
(…)
A Democratic congressional aide pointed out that a pocket veto cannot be overridden by Congress and allows Bush to distance himself from the rejection of a major Pentagon bill in a time of war.
In other words, Bush is both keeping his fingerprints off of a veto of money for the troops, and rejecting the validity of the pro forma sessions the Democrats have been using to block recess appointments. Indeed, Kagro X suggests that opening the door for recess appointments may be the real reason for this move.
Not to worry, though. The Democrats are all over this, and are ready to deploy the strongest possible countermeasures – nothing is off the table:
Democratic aides said they have not ruled out any legislative options, including dropping the language on lawsuits against Iraq and sending the rest of the bill back to Bush.
Yes! Take that, George! If you refuse to yield, we’ll… give you everything you want! How do you like them apples??? (Actually, according to emptywheel, that lawsuit provision might be meaningless. More on that later.)
If Dubya once again resorts to his Reality-Is-What-I-Say-It-Is strategy, the Democrats can either cave or go to the courts, with Dubya shedding crocodile tears for the troops all the while: Boo hoo, the mean ol’ troop-hating Democrats are holding up the money instead of giving me a nice clean bill to sign. (Yes, I know the Democrats would actually be trying to release the money, but you know how these things go.)
It’s constitutional brinksmanship. Bush is gambling that the Democrats won’t want to contest this, and will give in just to make the argument go away. And as TeddySanFran suggests, if they do let the pocket veto assertion slide uncontested, then they have conceded that the pro forma sessions are meaningless, and Dubya is now free to make all the godawful recess appointments he wants.
This would also answer emptywheel’s Why Now? and Why This? questions. It must drive Dubya crazy that he can’t recess-appoint whoever he wants anymore, and he needs lots of strategically placed loyal Bushies to make his last year of duckiness less lame. And the choice of such an iffy provision as veto pretext makes it even more likely that the Democrats would elect to just strip it out rather than contest Dubya’s definition of adjournment.
Muddying the waters further, Scarecrow has pointed me to a couple of Annotated Constitution passages which suggest that while Senate pro forma sessions may be insufficient to prevent a pocket veto, they certainly should be sufficient to prevent recess appointments. In theory, this would make Bush’s strategy pretty pointless, but only if he considered himself bound by the Constitution.
(h/t dakine)



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Hi Eli!
Hi jayt!
Now, If congress says, nuh-uh to the Pocket Veto, who initiates the the Third Branch’s intervention…?
I assume someone has to file a lawsuit. Harry Reid?
We’re doomed.
If these idiots were playing chess instead of checkers, they would have a move to capitalize on this nonsense. Let them run out of money. We appropriated the funds. What’s the problem? He’s the one who wants to fund the fucking war.
I have little sympathy for the spineless Dems who should be in session right now, TONIGHT, impeaching these cretins. Strip some GOPer funds in the bill .. double the strength of the Iraq lawsuit provisions..and send it back.
but but but
I thought we were keeping congress IN session?…pro forma or something like that
But, the E.O. would have to assert the fact there is a Pocket Veto, in effect…
Let me get this straight – what we need Congress to do is – nothing?
Weel, they’ve been practicing for a whole year now – ya think they’ve got it down yet?
If George doesn’t sign, George doesn’t get his money. And that’s a bad thing, politically, just how?
This bears major scrutiny, from Pelosi’s, The Gavel:
“Instead, we understand that the President is bowing to the demands of the Iraqi government, which is threatening to withdraw billions of dollars invested in U.S. banks if this bill is signed.“
How is it that they have billions of “dollars” that are invested in US banks?
Who’s dollars?
Taxpayer dollars?
Missing billions of “our” hard-earned money?
I want answers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is some major ’splainin’ to do.
They dare ask for more money. Screw their bill. Arrest them all for theft of our taxpayer money!!!
Impeach. This is truly outrageous!!!!!!!
Well, where it gets weird is that Bush will be saying he vetoed it, and Congress will be saying he didn’t. So if it comes to that, then someone (i.e., the judiciary) needs to rule on who’s right.
bach bach bach bach bach
The dems talking among themselves about the situation.
and as LS (and others) pointed out earlier, these billions of dollars Iraq is worried about, and threatening to take out of U.S. banks – just where did those dollars come from?
Some of those dollars may have once belonged to me.
But on the other hand, if the Senate says, “Yeah, it’s a valid veto, but we’ll just strip that one provision and resubmit it – problem solved!”, *then* Dubya can say, “Gotcha! You just admitted that the pro forma sessions are meaningless! Recess appointments for all my cronies!”
Here’s Nancy’s take on the bill…
http://www.speaker.gov/legislation?id=0135
I think this is the true poison pill…
Are the dems really that stupid?
Wait! Don’t answer that.
But it’s the House who overrides a veto, no?
Oh nevermind..
George Bush continues to play games with our troops just for political points. He recently said he didn’t like all the earmarks in the $550 billion budget bill and gave the Democrats a thrashing, but yet, he signed it anyways.
It takes two-thirds majorities in both Houses…
Yeah, like the hard-earned dollars from the troops who have died over there…who paid taxes…until they were killed….that are stolen by Bushco and given to Iraq, so they can invest in our friggin’ banks???????
Impeach!!
I want interest too!!!
But that’s not what he demanded they strip.
Maybe he’ll wait for them to send it back to him without the lawsuit provision, *then* demand that they strip the accountability provision…
…and using the National Guard was one more way for Georgie & Dickie to have their war on the cheap. The NG gets no retirement and some lose their health/medical benefits after a certain amount of time coming off the battlefield. It’s really unfreakingbelievable.
Is the money that Iraq is threatening to withdrawl part of some huge money laundering scheme? And if it is withdrawl, the usual suspects can’t get their hands on it.
Answer me this: How can Iraq have billions of dollars that is invested in US banks?
I want an answer.
Little Boots is playing gotcha last.
IMPEACH ,convict ,incarcerate…investigate 9/11
And all the VA provisos to boot!
Well, where it gets weird is that Bush will be saying he vetoed it, and Congress will be saying he didn’t. So if it comes to that, then someone (i.e., the judiciary) needs to rule on who’s right.
ok. So let the judiciary decide it. In the meantime, Shrub looks like a dick for holding up the money. Why isn’t the right move for Congress to just sit back and not say a goddamn thing?
gosh you steal my brain!
Let’s not forget that Commander Shitheel ridiculed John Kerry in 2004 by saying that “America will never ask for a permission slip” from a foreign nation.
-G
Why is he doing this, I mean really? Somtimes I think he just has to be ornery.
The fact that he waited until *after* the bill had passed to object to this provision reminds me of a little kid saying “But I never took my finger off it! I can take it back!” after realizing that he’s just made a terrible move.
if [Bush] considered himself bound by the Constitution.
Mighty big if there…
Not that Bush doesn’t have company.
With the exception of Chris Dodd Congressional Democrats don’t pay much attention to the Constitution either.
Did you misspell that??/s
The missing thirteen Billion comes to mind…
evil little shitheel that blows up frogs and humans for kicks
By laundering it for George & Bushie to make it look “legal”?
I’m not sure exactly what you mean by not saying a damn thing. They have to at least register and defend their position, that the pro forma sessions are valid, and therefore the pocket veto is not.
Actually, there’s no need to gavel the House into session:
Wright v. United States (1938) explicitly states that if ONE house is in session, Congress is NOT, repeat, NOT in recess for the purposes of pocket veto:
Check Mate! ;-)
Is that a veto in your pocket, or are you just happy to Cheney me?
In an earlier draft of this post, before I realized how silly it was to expect Dubya to abide by the Consitution, I speculated that maybe this is all just Dubya sticking firecrackers up Reid’s ass for kicks.
Reid likes it.
Exactly. Also, like the creep you went to play with as a kid who dictated what you were gonna play, how you were gonna play…meanwhile, making you really aware of that fact that he owns all the toys…..and he’ll always win….miserable excuse for a…..($*%&$*^$(*%^(%(&^%(%^(%%$##@!!!
Actually, Dubya really *was* that creep.
Please go to:
http://www.impeachmenthearingsnow.blogspot.com/
Follow the links and sign the petitions to Pelosi and Conyers.
I think that Dubya didn’t get a change to be that creep cause nobody
would play with him.
Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm….I’m fine now…really. *G*…
*$^%$&&$&$!@#$$%:)Wall Street is broke, both California and Kentucky are in financial crisis, while Nero plays with his fiddle.
Say, gonna take a rednecked, high-stepping, fundy preacher to shine this shit come Sunday morning.
Problem is: it’s an Authorization Bill, and the Congress Entire is the Authorizing Body. Appropriations, though, come from PelosiLand, which is in recess. Should she not challenge the pocket veto, or (worse) accede to it by agreeing to remove the portion that offends Dear Leader and His Iraq GreenZonians, then the Senate’s pro-forma sessions have been agreed (by a part of The Congress) to be worthless.
The Senate, the Confirmator Body, will then see its “recess” ignored via a bunch of appointments that will have to be challenged in court (if Harry Reid’s up to it), a Federal court stacked with Bushie fans of the Urinary Executive. Who are very overworked and likely not to intercede in “inter-branch” disputes on power eagerly. (”Work it out amongst yourselves, lady and gentlemen….”)
Either way, this is an Addington shot directly at the heart of the integrity of the Legislative Branch (*Article One*, ahem.) Congress may very well be extinct on 1/1/08.
lol
Hasn’t someone at Justice has already written an opinion declaring that the President is not bound by Supreme Court decisions when exercising his prerogatives as Decider-in-Chief?
If not, I’m sure one is in preparation even as we type.
hahahahahahahahaha
golf clap
No, he really was (and is).
i did!
Like this one?:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..-of-press/
the nebishe from hell
they have to at least register and defend their position, that the pro forma sessions are valid, and therefore the pocket veto is not.
ok – was thinking a bit backwards (and that’s *never* happened before, heh).
Still, is there any reason for the D’s to push the question? If the executive branch isn’t getting money to the soldiers, who is it that looks bad?
Heh. For his “amusement”.
Oh, Jebus. WTF *is* it with Republicans???
Remember when Dubya tried to run the press over with a bulldozer? Or forklift, maybe.
another shot
who can keep track?
The Democrats. Any time the troops aren’t getting money, it’s the Democrats’ fault.
Especially, since the packed bench takes a dim view on Stare Decisis…
Good one! I forgot about that!
not a decent poker player among them
Iraq’s oil revenues are deposited in US banks.
Heh….Bush’s shot across the
bowbow:http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0131.html
not a decent poker player among them
That’s why my Christmas wish was a seat at a high-stakes p*ker game with Pelosi, Reid, Hoyer, and Rahm. Bluff every single hand – go home muy rich.
(thought about putting Arlen in there, but he’s a pretty good bluffer too).
Speaking of stupid:
Huckabee Jokes About Cheney Hunting Incident – Then Fires Over Heads Of Reporters-C&L
I see. Ahem. Not.
hahahahaha
yup dems not very cagy
It’s OK. Huckabee had already asked the Lord to put a shield of protection over the media.
They tweren’t in harms way.
-G
Yep, my boy, deadeye Fuckabee.
No laughing matter. If true, at the very least all of the hunters involved should have their hunting license revoked for life.
Well my goodness, where WILL we find one of those? ;)
this is true?
too freakin dumb to live(snark)
Anyone who has a son who has tortured and killed animals should be prevented from both running for office and being a man of the cloth. And should have his tubes tied.
It’s a damn good gamble. The Dems have caved into everything Bush has pushed up both their chambers–the House and the Senate since Bush was swung in by S.D. O’Conner.
And Eli, you know that the Constitution never enters Bush’s thinking, ever.
amen
If the UnitaryExecutive can decide whether Congress is in actual session or not — and he claims they are not, right now, Jim Webb’s nine-second extravaganzas every seventy-two hours notwithstanding — what’s to stop him from sending them home?
If the Congress’s own rules about when or whether it’s in session can be ignored by the Preznit, we have no more **Article One**.
Congress will be extinct soon. Nice work, Nancy.
Uh… We get snipped… ;-)
Nancy Pelosi: America’s First Woman Speaker of the House.
Also, America’s Last Speaker of the House.
this is pure addington/darth
nuttin honey enters chimpies mind it is in fact a black hole that is all
sad that,i had vet high hopes
Prolly doesn’t have sex anymore anyway.
Too flabby.
Too fundie.
Too fucked.
Well, the son should probably be barred from running for office as well.
Would have saved us an awful lot of trouble…
Ooh, AC is in Pakistan, and reporting all the discrepanies in the means of death and all the demonstrations and deaths…
It’s not the running for office that fucked us over. It’s James Baker III stealing the office for Junja that fucked us over.
Does this mean he won’t be in NYC for the ball-drop?
At the very least, I hope Harry and Nancy are consulting with some very good Constitutional lawyers, and not just winging it and assuming that whatever Dubya’s up to is basically harmless.
Really good point, I think.
I also don’t understand, isn’t this the same bill that GWB was whining about before the Congress adjourned? Said they had to pass this bill before they left or the poor troops wouldn’t have the money they needed and how they couldn’t possibly do without the money without putting them under undo stress?
Apparently…
Does anyone even know where Nancy and Harry are? They’ve got about one-half a day to get this into court before the system starts shutting down for New Years.
Nancy seems frustrated that Junja never mentioned he’d veto the bill. Her premature capitulation was foiled.
Right On!
Right on!
Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach
Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach
Hillary ad: Freeze All Foreclosures
First sensible thing she’s said in months.
I guess I need to sleep for 3 days.
‘Plausible Deniability’… Can’t forget about that… *g*
Right on!
Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach
Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach
But aren’t the facts in this case different? In that case the House was in session and the Senate was out, whereas now that’s reversed. And since the bill originated in the House, it’s the House that would have to receive the return of the bill. But how can that happen when the House is not in session? And does that affect the pocket veto process, or is the clock simply on hold until the House resumes? Is there perhaps some loophole here that hasn’t been tested before?
who’s in charge of oil revenues?
I just got here and haven’t read all the comments. Does this mean that someone is FINALLY drafting articles of impeachment? It’s about freaking time… (Probably not, but a girl can dream, can’t she?)
I’m diggin’ in the dirt over here.
Well, no. It was actually sarcasm, as well as a ploy to get people to read past the break…
I’m thinking a sternly worded letter might just be in order here.
I’ve heard it said that WWIII has already started. Never placed much store in that though. Beginning to wonder.
My God, man! Have you no sense of decency?
Marion, JLML@47, posted petitions aimed at Pelosi and Conyers to get off their collective arses and get the Impeachment ball rolling… 8-)
i know to expect bush to attempt to trash the constitution, give big FUs to congress and the troops… so, no surprise there.
but i keep expecting congress to fight back – wtf is wrong with me?
Wexler Wants Hearing.
Interesting debunking of the Bhutto “bumped-her-head-and-died” story over a Josh Marshall’s place:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/062206.php
denial
With a modern media – and its detailed coverage of the President’s personal decision to veto a major defense bill by refusing to sign it, controversially claiming that Congress is not in session (which will come as a surprise to Sen. Webb) – the public, “the great and observant public”, cannot possibly separate the failure of that legislation with any cause but Mr. Bush’s veto of it. Unless, of course, the Democrats aid and abet that understanding.
So, which savvy, bright, ambitious, streetsmart “Democratic staffer” came up with the proffered quote, characterizing the modern “pocket veto” as still allowing the President to avoid liability for his veto? Presumably, someone on Sen. Kneepads Lieberman’s staff.
The purported reason for the President’s veto is because of the need to avoid subjecting the Iraqi government to liability suits in the US. Admittedly, Mr. Bush savors the notion of “liability” as much as he savors root canal or not drinking. But the cognoscenti are pointing out that Iraq is already exempt from such liability.
I favor the observation that this is really the GOP throwing down the guantlet over the legitimacy of the Democrats’ mini-sessions the Senate, held to preclude Shrub from making recess appointments of more Brownies at FEMA, Doans at the GSA, and Bradbury’s at the DOJ.
Not that Shrub really wants to take this to court, risking an adverse decision. He wants the Dems to fold without taking them behind the woodshed for a strategery session. He wants them to fold by threatening a tantrum.
The Democrats in this Congress can’t seem to fix their role: are they an abused spouse that keeps saying “Yes” when it means “No”? Or are they an abused parent devoid of the ability to set limits on willful, errant, destructful teenagers in the White House, thus letting them trash the family, the neighborhood and the school? Enquiring minds want to know.
Big Bird Woman can be our counsel anytime. Nice and Quick work!!!
I’d like to see impeachment, and I think the Speaker and some others have let the nation down terribly. But other events in the world may distract from that.
I am suffering the same symptoms. *sniff*
It’s the Magic Sunroof Theory, basically.
I’ve been trying to make sense of this story all day. BBC and CNN both had similar stories – that Iraqis are better at reading pending US legislation than the administration. Well, maybe. Then Tina found some other links, and then this one.
There’s another shoe to drop, and it’s a size 15 ski boot. Filled with lead.
Assuming this is really a problem. I wonder who inserted this language?
but i do know better… it’s just a reflexive thing, my first response is “wow, congress is going to kick bush’s butt”… and then my brain engages and i realize i’m being an idiot again.
maybe we’re suffering from some kind of demented wishful thinking.
but i keep expecting congress to fight back
Yeah, me too.
wtf is wrong with them?
“Invested” is the keyword. Doesn’t makes sense. Invested means they are making interest via our banks. Taxpayer money from us…that we appropriated to fix their country….is being invested by them…back into our banks…to hold up our failing banking system???? Are they money laundering Congress’s appropriations of our taxpayer money, to Iraq and getting it back as investment into the US banks…to support the “illusion” of stability????? It is a scam I tell you, starting with Wolfowitz convincing Congress that oil revenues would pay for the war. Not the “war”…the “agenda”….Money laundering…money laundering….
Now, they are holding us hostage? Who is holding us hostage????
Helllooooo!!!! I want answers!!!
Remember, assets were frozen during the first Gulf War that has either been released or is still earning interest re: Iraq. Same with Iran, since 1979. What the F is going on???? It is our money.
And why no one realized it was a problem until both houses had passed it?
This is really smelly.
Interestingly, Dumbya sent the bill to the Clerk of House and used almost identical language to that used by Bill Clinton on two of his “pocket vetoes” in 2000. It’s called “protective return,” meaning the administration is trying to protect against the possibility that a court will find that a pocket veto isn’t valid in this case. In both the Clinton cases, Congress considered the “pocket vetoes” to be regular vetoes and voted to override, although in both cases the override attempt failed.
man, talk about media turning right wing, krystol is actually gonna be a weekly columnist for the new york times
Signed, thaks for the op
Well, how’s this for creepy: Snarlin’ Arlen (of J. Kennedy assassination inquest fame) was scheduled to meet with Bhutto later that same night.
Marcy opined that Columbia could also be deemed ‘State Sponsors’ too…
link
i’m not sure it’s our money.
You have *got* to be shitting me.
Frank Lautenberg of New Jersey inserted the language. Gotta think about where I saw it today, but I saw it.
Hmmm… then who’s????
Oh, crap… You’re joking, aren’t you? I may just have to kill myself. Or confine myself to serving tea and coffee in the morning, along with stories of what my cats did the night before. Krystol? In the NYT??? I weep…
*Gah* Not the ‘Clinton did it too’ defense…
No, Arlen was there.
Bhutto gets killed… Eli posts on FDL… COINCIDENCE?!
It’s in the Courant story.
To thicken the plot even further, consider that “Invest in the US” for any foreign country currently means “Lose money quickly as US dollar falls against all other world currencies.” In which case, why would they have any serious money banked here?
We did confiscate a lot of Hussein’s dough. I didn’t think there was any left (I thought that was the stuff we were throwing around like footballs).
Isnt Bush just pissed cause Reid wont let him recess appoint?
Anybody have trouble getting onto FDL?
I have, as well as several other blogs.
Yesterday, I thought the Specter scenario in Pakistan was, you know, silly. Well, now I’m wondering what he advised the government to “prudently” put forward….you know…to placate the “masses”…holy cow….twice in my lifetime…
There are no coincidences as they say.
Specter and Patrick Kennedy.
Boycott the NYT.
If W gets his way on this one, I expect NO MORE arguments about my occasionally expressed opinions about our wonderful “blackmailed Congress.”
NONE.
here’s the think progress lead;
You have *got* to be shitting me.
’tis a fact.
Not at all, and I’ve been all over the place this evening. It may be your service provider?
See for yourself — and get this — the other person was Patrick Kennedy!
Stranger than Fiction. Hmmm.
Oh, I think it drives him crazy. He hates being thwarted.
But whether or not that’s what this is about is just speculation until he makes a move.
Hah! That’s Marion’s specialty, She’d be lost without the Grey Lady…! *g*
Well, that tears it. I may just curl up in a ball and end it all…. Christ.
That’s just surreal.
Where’s the $9 Billion missing money from the Bremer era in Iraq??? Where is it?????
Nevermind, where’s the $2 plus Trillion that Rumsfeld referred to as missing on 9/10/01 from the Pentagon budget alone, where, where????
he has no idea he is thwarted till uncle Dick tells him he is,pass the Bushmills
one theory that hadn’t crossed my mind is that “death by sunroof” denies Bhutto martyr status. Makes some sense.
Still worth bearing in mind that the story was initially put out by the Pakistani Interior Ministry – wouldn’t they have been in charge of security?
iraq’s? they’ve been selling oil… maybe they haven’t been using the revenues for the benefit of the people of the country – isn’t that what the saudi’s do? sell their oil and put the $ in our financial system?
a possibility only.
Nope. Kristol will be a NY Times “columnist”. The FBI must have really good pics about the Ochs and Sulzbergers et al., for them to give Kristol a national platform in an election year. Either that, or they are so worried about making a real newspaper pay that they’re giving up on it and surreptitiously selling out to Murdoch.
If they expect Kristol’s Kolumns to generate demand and sales, they should check the effects of Cohen, Bobo, et al. My guess is that the Times’ most avid readers read the paper in spite of those columns, not because of them. Surely, a more informed, balanced, sellable voice was available to add to the Times masthead. Perhaps it was simply that Norman Podhoretz Grover Nordquist were unavailable.
If it weren’t for progressive blogs, I would think the sky was falling. So, it would be silly for FDL and others to let this little snippet pass by without taking advantage of its obvious marketing opportunities.
Well, I may start to regale y’all with kitty blogging now! Or at least “filter” what I allow you to see…
Somebody has to find the Lincoln link now. ;-)
We need to find out the name of Bhutto’s secretary before we jump to any conclusions.
reading my mind again!
still could be complicit.
Sept 10th2001….is when the 2 trillion dollar Pentagon loss came out
speaking just for myself, ya understand, feel free to “filter” William the Bloody to your heart’s content.
“Uuuurp”.
do you remember how the administration used “the liberal new york times” to prove that “even the new york times says there are wmd’s in Iraq”?
first they planted the story, then they sited the planted story because it was in “the liberal new york times”
think about that, and that power now that they have krystol writting weekly
holy crap, I didn’t even think of that
I wonder how Paul Krugman feels about it… ;-)
No autopsies do happen here, in murder cases but very infrequently. One case was when the BOP (think DOJ agency) prevented one when federal prison employees beat an inmate to death in Utah a few years back. The local coroner had the authority, but lacked the balls to mandate an autopsy,and he was cowed, although not legally by the Feds and it never got done.
I didn’t see anything in the doc’s post at TPM that addressed the medical cause of death. He was addressing differences in Pakistani law and U.S. law.
The doc also forgets that when someone with the profile of Bennie Bhutto is killed, often nuances of law and procedure are out the window fast.
The first’s doc’s comment seems confused:
. If they attribute the head injury to concussive force from the blast, it is implausible to me that she would have lacked shrapnel injury;
We don’t know whether she had shrapnel injury or not, because there hasn’t been a clinical report of Bhutto’s cause of death, and I doubt we ever will get an acurate report. Without an accurate autopsy, even if it’s results should or could be released, we don’t know if blood could have pressured the brain stem to cause respiratory arrest. If she had a GSW to the neck it could have well hit a major artery or vein, not helping her situation.
The third doc hasn’t seen many people duck when a bomb was ten feet away obviously when however short the distance she ducked would matter little if percussive force smacked her head against something hard enough.I agree with him here though:
It’s ironic that so much attention is now on the value of Bennie Bhutto to Pakistan and the U.S. the minute she is dead. But isn’t that often the way? The U.S. has handled Pakistan very poorly, but it’s a Condi Rice production and the former Stanford Provost screws up everything she touches.
I’m not sure what good speculation on her cause or causes of death does,
Tragically, she’s dead, and neither the U.S. had the sense to get her protected and Mushariff profits by having her out of the way, and he did little to protect her–hence the result.
As in nearly every case, the U.S. foreign policy is in the toilet, and here in a country larger than Russia, with nukes.
Mushariff (spelled many different ways in the press) has done little to tamp AQ, and he’s been in a precarious position anyway there–it’s a miracle he’s still alive.
The U.S. hasn’t had a grip on how to handle Pakistan, has pissed away billions of dollars, and should have supported and protected Bhutto, because now there is no good alternative.
No good alternative seems to be a great name for Condi and a great name for the State Department.
Well, it’s my old home town paper, and I’m old enough to remember when it used to be a real paper. It started down the slippery slope to perdition, in my estimation, about 25 years or so ago when they started their “special sections,” Wednesday was food, etc., etc., etc. I’m still pissed that they went from 8 columns to 6…
I understand, but money “invested” in banks is just that…”invested” in banks…not “deposited”…”invested”…it is money that is holding up the banking system of specific banks by the “investor” of that which is “invested” in.
In other words, the Iraqi government has money we probably gave them, invested in our banks…so that they can function. If they pull it….they “pull it”…can you say….blackmail?
this must be protested…Krugman,and Rich…thats it
New York Times To Hire Bill Kristol As Weekly
[I]n a move bound to create controversy, the New York Times is set to announce that Bill Kristol will become a weekly columnist in 2008.
If so, the slide at NYT continues.
Well, Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy who warned him not to go to the theater, and Kennedy had a secretary named Lincoln who warned him not to go to Dallas.
And, of course, Kennedy was riding in a Lincoln when he was shot…
Among other things.
I heard they wanted to deny her martyr-hood.
I don’t mind passionate advocacy, but I want accurate facts. So, NYT, I’ll raise you one Paul Krugman for two Bobos, three Billy Kristols and a Norman Podsinhispants.
Bob Herbert.
And, of course, I’m sure they’ll *claim* that MoDo’s a liberal…
no bomb no bump
she is a martyr
blackmail, yes (if the story is true). but i don’t see how we can conclude that we “gave” them the money. why couldn’t it be money from selling oil – you know? the iraqi’s oil?
*cough*mypost@162*cough*
yea forgot about him….sureal this world
Hi, guys! I came by after awhile away hoping for some good comments, and um, cheer? I’m even more depressed than I was by the disaster of Benazir Bhutto’s murder. And, tho’ I know they’re not equivalent for anyone but me, the deaths of two of my kittehs in the last 3 weeks.
But, OMG, Kristol in the NYT? Noooooo! Pocket veto that could trump the pro forma congress sessions? (re-reading the Vanity Fair profile of Bush as a kid that foretold everything we needed to know, gaaaah) Mysterious billions of Iraqi dollars somehow supporting US? When virutally all of our money is going to prop them up?
And last, but not least, relying on the Dem leadership to fight Bush on the pocket veto/liability for Iraq thing…Did somebody say they were going to curl up in a ball? Make room, I’m curlin’ up with ya. Can’t.take.much.more.
I’ve been thinking she was murdered by Bush but Muslims have their own test for martyrs
HuffPo had some pictures up earlier – the fourth picture shows an awful lot of blood on the seat where she was standing.
fwiw:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..78599.html
From Bush’s “pocket veto” message:
Never mind the stated reasons for the veto or the iraq money. The point is that Bush regards Congress as “adjourned.” The question is: does he regard it as in recess for the purpose of making recess appointments, and if so, will he make such appointments? What then?
I’ve got piles of work to do over the weekend, so I’m tottering off to my downy couch. Probably with nightmares of Krystol Kollums dancing in my head… Sleep well, folks, see you tomorrow.
Yeah and can we please point out that Commander Codpiece is NOT supporting the troops by using this opportunity to give them a smaller raise…NOT supporting the troops in order to support the ineffectual Iraqi government they are being forced to prop up???
Like a Kitty would…? ;-)
(As I mentioned at EW about 4 hrs ago:)
We are so out of our depth here, culturally speaking.
+((((((tejanarusa))))))+
Aloha, Marion!
MoDo certainly considers herself a Liberal because she voted for a Democrat once, for which her GOP family stopped talking to her for a whole weekend. If the great Montgomery Clift spent twenty years committing suicide, MoDo has spent twenty years in mid-life crisis and blaming Democrats who shag more than she does. All she has left is eight of her nine lives and a bag of litter.
Modo’s witty and a pretty good writer whatever her political persuasion. She ain’t no fan of the Bushies. Poppy once referenced thowing her out of a plane at 25,000 feet while he was Pres.
no…. b o m b…no bump …cause…affect
response to Cttutle:
Like a Kitty would…? ;-)
Yup. thank goodness for my remaining kittehs, who curl up with me or on me and keep me getting up to face another day.
Well, we can, but sadly no one in the MSM will. SO when Bush blames the Democrats that is the only meme that will get play. And once again, the dems will fold like a house of cards, but not before issuing a strongly worded letter.
aint they great!
I think the pocket veto and the recess appointment issues are probably separate. The bill can’t be returned because the House is not in session, not because the Congress is not in session. (See PW’s comment for the court decision that established that Congress is in session whenever at least one house is in session.) Appointments on the other hand originate in the Senate, and since the Senate is currently in session, there is no recess of either the Senate or the Congress at the moment.
Or at least so I think…
“If” the “story” is true?
Did we give them the money?
Ummmm….are you joking??? Just checking…
Freaking cold!
And terrific!
to marymccurmin:
Thanks.
(gee, I miss the 6+98″quote” function)
I disagree. I think she’s valuable, how much ever she shags relative to whomever. She’s a lot brighter than Kristol and Brooks although his travel books are a lot better than his flawed columns.
That count’s for something, right? Aloha, MM!
What up bro?
How’s the kiddo?
Alive and Kicking! Thanx! Evening, Raven!
to Hmmm at 200:
I am so confused…maybe it’s just too late at night. Or, I’ve finally been overwhelmed by the volume of shocks and horros…I’ve saying, “I jsut can’t keep up,” for the past few years. It used to be sort of facetious; now it’s getting to be literally true, I fear. My head feels like it will explode every time I learn some new horror….
Technical failure causes blackout in Baghdad:
And at the same time in Pakistan:
Hmmm. No conclusions, just an odd coincidence.
Just a drive by. Gettin kinda sleepy here on the east coast.
no, i’m not joking (although i may be an idiot).
1. the story may not be true. do we know for a fact that the iraqi gov does have all that $ invested in usa banks? do we know for a fact that the iraqi gov has threatened to take the $ away if bush doesn’t veto the bill? is that what bush told reid and pelois? is there any independent verification?
2. did we give them the money? what money did we give iraqis? lots of our tax money has gone to haliburton et al. (supposedly for the benefit of iraqis, but we know better than that), i don’t remember any large sums of money going to iraqis.
happy to be corrected.
MoDo may be able to write well, but does so less and less. She has become a caricature of her potential, content too often to meoww epithets such as calling the beautiful, stately and even older Catherine Deneuve and friends at a Parisian hotel “a Chanel bag surrounded by Chanel bags”. Odds are, in Paris for a week purportedly covering color and politics before Sarkozy’s election, she felt left out and simply acted out. But she has a column in the New York bloody Times. This is a year we could use her to regain her professional composure and use that wit and learning on more important things.
A realistic assessment, since it’s a funding bill it naturally arises from the House…!
Didn’t these dopes also make it impossible to sue Fidel’s commie ass?
Selise – I may have missed something, but your questions are the first ones I thought of, too. Where the f*** did that alleged money come from?????
Funny, then, that they are email buddies, innit?
Yes, those are logical arguments. But the President deliberately chose to ignore them, and the language he chose is provocative, deliberately challenging wrt to the Senate’s view of it’s being in session. Why do this, if not to take some further step wrt to recess appointments?
If that is not their aim, then fine, this is just an annoyance.
What is it, Elevenish? Marion just bowed out too…! 8-)
I know what you mean. I half wonder whether increasing the chaos generally isn’t the plan at the moment. Either in the Milton Friedman sense, or in the let’s-hide-something-really-important-that’s-happening sense. Very difficulat to know how paranoid to be just now. :-/
Hmmm..re how Benazir Bhutto died – my local news teases with promise of photos of the “gunman right before he killed Benazir Bhutto.”
This is all too weird for me now.
Aloha and mahalo, CT. Maui looked windy and overcast today, how was Hilo?
Yea,end of the 3rd qtr of the Emerald Bowl, gotta tape the end!
Mad Mommy, they were just running a clip of my Boyz having a good time on Bourbon Street… ;-)
And here I thought that the Iraqi government was just our puppet gov.
It is true you learn something new everyday.
Sort of on topic; Haley Barbour is announcing an interim pick for Lott’s vacant senate seat, with special election Nov 4 2008 for rest of term.
State AG is challenging, saying he has to have election within 90 days.
I looked up the statute, and AG is right IMO. (IANAL, but it appears to be pretty simple). Whether the senate is in session when the vacancy occurs may have some bearing on the case. Anyone know more about this?
They better have it now cuz the big dawg’s are fixin to eat.
Sand in the umpire’s face? As I said over at EW’s place, maybe this is just chaos escalation. At TPM somebody suggested the real reason could lie elsewhere in the bill, and a few folks have pointed at the oversight provisions — very plausible. Maybe there are lawsuit issues, where if lawsuits procees against some coutry the US has used as a black site, discovery would expose information that W and Team Dick can’t handle. Hard to know, the bill seems so very broad.
Mostly Cloudy and dreary, with an occasional heavy downpour… I hope it clears up for Monday nite, it’d put a serious crimp in the fireworks…
Evening all.
Augh…(I learned my interjections from Charlie Brown and Linus). I see my typing is horrible tonight – whatever happened to “preview?” It really was my friend….
Afraid the thinking matches the typing…better go to bed – work to in the morning. Nice to chat with everybody…and a happy new year if I don’t get back before then!
Your ‘Dawgs will only be nipping at my Boyz heels… 8-P
Anyone know more about this?
Uh, no. Whenever Lott’s name comes up, as of late, all I can think about is – Larry Flynt.
Just so long as the get it out of their system and focus on the task at hand (hands on hips and focusing mommy glare towards Bourbon Street). Hope the weather is nicer this weekend then it has been the last couple of days.
At least if it’s still wet there should be fewer fires, eh? West Maui got it pretty good on the 4th.
I have to say I am a bit confused by the “lawsuit” issue with spending bill. How is a bill passed by our government going to expose the Iraqi govt to lawsuits? Can we pass a bill that makes Australia accountable for Saddams crimes?
preview is working – link may show they are not valid when in preview but that is a preview glitch and the links usually translate over correctly.
Knowing Haley, it is likely a ploy to get someone into the seat that can then run as an incumbent at the end of the year.
Larry!
Larry!
Larry!
Larry!
Larry!
Larry!
Larry!
Larry!
Larry!
The two laws governing Trent’s resignation were the Mississippi state law, which says that a vacancy created in a non-regular election year (like 2007) has to be filled by special election within 90 days; and the new Federal ethics and lobbying law, which takes effect on 1/1/08 and says any current Congresscritters at that time have to wait TWO years to lobby their former colleagues (unlike the current ONE year).
So, Trent resigned in 2007, making him eligible to lobby his colleagues after ONE year, not TWO. But that meant Gov Barbour had to hold a special election within 90 days of the resignation.
Which he said he won’t do. Which the State AG is challenging.
Seems like Haley is taking a clue from Shrub’s illegalities: “Watch me!”
Suzanne:
Duh – I didn’t even see the preview link in the corner…yet another example of why I need to say good night! *g*. Thanks, I’ll remember next time.
Bonne Soir, Ma Cheri!
EW explains all… as usual.
Silent! No splash at all!
hi honey i am home!!!!!
howdy y’all.
Iraqi oil revenues are deposited in NYC banks.
The Iraqis supposedly control and pay bills with these monies.
OTOH the banks are broke and Cheney gets first count.
Iraq is in a missionary position.
Thank you TSF. That’s the way I read it, too.
Iraqi oil revenues are deposited in NYC banks.
The Iraqis supposedly control and pay bills with these monies.
OTOH the banks are broke and Cheney gets first count.
It’s called the missionary position.
y’all still here?
toobz tied?
bit of a site fart there for a moment, methinks.
Hiya Cassie.
Hey Cassie! Enjoying your vacation?
little site hiccup but seems to be working well now :)
Definitely, a hiccup…! ;-)
Did y’all write the same things twice? Or is it my computer?
I didn’t do it, honest!
Regarding the pocket veto, it applies where “Congress” is not in session, when both houses are not available to consider and adopt changes, based on the President’s objections, to legislation within the ten days the President has to sign a bill into law. (If it were in session, and he failed to sign, the legislation would become law.)
I agree that this is different from whether the Senate alone is in session. Only the Senate that has the “advice and consent” role and the power to make appointments from nominations given it by the President.
Surely, a man has petulant as George W. Bush, with a regent as worried about “his” presidential power as Dick Cheney (a man exceptionally jealous over his powers of appointment), could not fail to be angry at Reid’s mini-sessions, especially since Webb has been doing the honors. It was Webb who defeated GOP presidential hopeful and darling of Virginia rednecks, George Allen. There’s no love lost between Webb (an Annapolis graduate and former Navy Secretary, Marine and Vietnam veteran, whose son has served combat tour(s)in Iraq)and Five-Deferment Cheney and occasional TANG pilot George Bush.
Consequently, with only a year of power left and many miles to go before they sleep*, Bush and Cheney want to throw monkey wrenches into ANY effective Democratic legislation, and any move that stops Congress from continuing to cede power to the President.
The White House’s strategery of threatening a tantrum if Shrub doesn’t get only what he wants in the defense authorization bill may work. It has worked on other legislation this session. With few exceptions, this Democratic leadership needs not-enough-anger management therapy.
That happens when you click on the comments line twice. I do it all the time.
Here’s a thought. Is the veto intended to somehow re-open the military funding bill debate when Congress comes back, i.e. at the same time that the super-contentious FISA/PAA revisions debate will also be happening? Would Team Dick see any advantage in that? Is there something they would want to do differently in the funding bill, depending on how FISA/PAA comes out?
The entire point of this exercise is to extinctify the Congress.
Don’t see how…?
Whew,
I haven’t been able to see anything different for hours. Is there a problem? I’m in remote access so it is probably me.
Come Jan. 22nd, He’ll be screaming for the Funding and the FISA…
Could it be that Bush is setting up a situation for the Iraqi’s to take their money out of the banks so when the dollar tanks even more they won’t loose so much dough.
Or am I stretching here.
what was that saying of boosh’s.. its ok as long as i get to be the dictator?
Loooooo-seeeeeee. I’m home from dee cluh-uhhhb!
huh? no club. i was in fort worth.
The entire point of this exercise is to extinctify the Congress.
Ah, kudos to another devotee of the “just because a word doesn’t technically exist, doesn’t mean that I can’t use it anyway” school of thought….
More like “irrelevidate”, I think.
Yea, that’s some mental pilates, there. Ooff…think I just pulled a lobe.
Lootsoabley.
Oh well.
cassie, that is from a 50’s tv show, i love lucy
If the Preznit’s word is law regarding whether the Congress is in session, you can kiss Article One goodbye. He’ll simply send them home.
Or exsphincterfy.
I’ve always thought I had a good imagination. tehanarusa, I absolutely cannot imagine losing 2 kittehs in 3 weeks. Please do imagine the warmest, most healing hug you’ve ever received. It’s from me. And there are more to come.
Is this the beginning of him not leaving in ‘09?
Do you think that the threat of the loss of their cushy positions might actually cause our congresscritters to finally wake up and smell the coffee?
Man, all that alarmist talk about martial law and suspending the elections, which I always just took as crazytalk, is now seeming quite rational.
As long as the complicit Conglomerate Media keeps people from knowing what’s really happening, this could actually happen. Yeesh…
277, 278, 279: Yes, yes, and yup.
Is this the beginning of him not leaving in ‘09?
Not that I was asked, but I think Georgie wants out of D.C. yesterday.
Which, of course, is not to say that the rest of the gang is in any hurry to give up a damn thing…
Can someone give me reasons why the current Iraq government should be held responsible for actions taken during Saddam Hussein’s reign? I think Bush is correct in not allowing Iraqis to sue the current administration for Hussein’s actions.
Looks more like kind of a nonsequitir move to me. W bases his actions on “The adjournment of the Congress,” whereas Congress is in fact in session.
Reads like word substitution magic.
late nite is up
Yeah, that extraordinarily powerful Iraqi government that managed to get the UN to extend the US’s right to continue the occupation without consent of the Iraqi legislature as required by the provisions of its US-drafted Iraq Constitution. I wouldn’t mess with that powerful gummit either
I think Bush is correct in not allowing Iraqis to sue the current administration for Hussein’s actions
Why does George Bush get to decide what kind of suits should be allowed to proceed – in Iraq?
Iraq needs to get over running to D.C. for solutions to hypothetical problems. And real problems -> hell, they’ve got a government and a court system, we don’t have a dog in this fight, imo.
Ooff…think I just pulled a lobe.
Awesome funny
It is established law that the responsibility for its actions rests with the “state”, regardless of which government from time to time manages the state’s affairs. Normally, each government inherits the legal liabilities of its predecessor. That’s why US banks for decades claimed that the Soviet government was obligated to pay debts incurred by the Czarist government, why the Budesrepublik was liable for Nazi era liabilities, and why today’s government in Iraq could be liable for Sadam era liabilities.
But all of that is probably like one of Hitchcock’s maguffins. Odds are that Bush/Cheney objected to some other part(s) of the bill, or the passage of ANY Democratic Party sponsored legislation.
As I understand it, Bush is claiming both a pocket veto and normal veto, and leaving aside whether, as he claims, Congress is in recess. Either way, he is assuming liability, not “escaping” it. So, which idiot Democratic staffer said otherwise, please? Ditto for the MSM. Bush need only have signed the legislation if he hadn’t intended to obstruct it and the work of Congress. It’s his prerogative; it’s also his liability. The Democratic Party should make that abundantly clear.
So, if she said it recently, can we assume John Edwards said it a month ago?
Sure. John Edwards smarts drown Hillary, except for talking.
Otherwise, left brain beats right brain, easy.
……..In theory, this would make Bush’s strategy pretty pointless, but only if he considered himself bound by the Constitution.
Why start now?