Via Agonist, we find this link to a Pakistani blog with on the scene updates ongoing. The latest reports say that violence is substantial in a number of areas around the country, with fires being set and looting following that. This blog reports a couple of suspects in the assassination:
1- Baitullah Mehsud, a top commander fighting the Pakistani army in the tribal region of South Waziristan. He has close ties to al Qaeda and the Afghan Taleban.
2- The other was Haji Omar, the "amir" or leader of the Pakistani Taleban, who is also from South Waziristan and fought against the Soviets with the Mujahideen in Afghanistan.
It is important to stress that it is VERY early in the process to fix any speculation on any one possibility, but these are two names that I’ve heard floated elsewhere as well, and I thought raising them to see if others had thoughts or opinions on them would be useful. My first thought on this was that the intel services in Pakistan should be high on any speculation list, given their prior ties to extremist, militant Islamic and Taliban-linked groups in Pakistan, but again it’s awfully early to come up with any one theory. Thoughts?
Further, reader noen points to other Pakistani metro blogs here as well.
Spencer Ackerman has two good pieces at TPM, with a source close to Bhutto implicating Musharraf as having responsibility for Bhutto’s death – see here — and reporting on the runaround from the State Department here. Americablog has a link to a Sky news report discussing the fears that this will lead to a descent into chaos and civil war within Pakistan. BBC has some more details on the attack, as well as an obituary.
For some perspective, it is worth a re-read of this op-ed from Mrs. Bhutto from November in the NYTimes. Juan Cole has some thoughts here, and Informed Comment: Global Affairs has a number of updates as well. More as we get it…post links and updates as you find them in the comments, please.
UPDATE: Interesting article from last summer in Foreign Affairs from a former State Department official during the Bush Administration. More from Daniel Markey here at Council on Foreign Relations. Anyone know much about him?
Related posts:
- Intelligence Shortfalls And The Waziristan Offensive
- Pakistan’s Waziristan Offensive Begins
- “Assassination Squads” at Root of Latest CIA Revelations?
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Nicholas Schmidle, To Live or to Perish Forever: Two Tumultuous Years in Pakistan
- To COIN or Not To COIN: Afghanistan-Pakistan Policy Needs Public Debate, Consensus
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Christy!
Great Work Christy.
Who benefits from this chaos?….
Let’s keep this simple: my heart and sympathies go out to the Bhutto family, and to the people of Pakistan. May their suffering end.
Also EPU’d from last thread:
Listen here to BBC World Service for live radio coverage. They’ve been covering it nonstop since it happened.
Certainly not us, ticktock. (as in us peasants.)
The NYTimes also now has an obit up.
No one does.
Link to statement by Ban Ki-moon:
http://www.un.org/apps/sg/sgstats.asp?nid=2933
UN Security council is meeting to discuss impact, etc.
Precisely….
More misery and opportunities to do more harm to the vast majority of the Pakistan people…
BTW, Christy:
Am really glad FDL is devoting several posts this morning to this. International news (political, economic, cultural) is one of my strong interests. Thank you kindly.
Or perhaps to put it better, who thinks they benefit from this chaos? My money is on our government and Pakistan’s, not that this will mean anything other than scapegoats are brought to justice for this.
That’s just what the guest on Al Jazeeera just said.
Someone wanting to force the nuclear disarmament of Pakistan in a post
civil war international settlement. Very high risk, but not worse than
fear of nuclear Iran. Qui Bono indeed!
Well, the breakaway Waziristan region of Pakistan could possibly benefit from a Pakistan government beset on all sides. Divide and conquer.
-G
Christy is on the beat. Better, faster and more current than any repetitive teevee news orgs. Bravo. Lots of excellent comments down below.
Everybody knows that Musharraff didn’t want to share power with Bhutto. He sure as hell was not looking forward to throwing her a party or having a pissing contest with her. He was definitely interested in throwing her under the bus (at least metaphorically). To paraphrase the great lady Babs Bush, “This has worked out quite well for him.”
I concur with the conspiracy theorists. (Somebody’s) Black ops does the deed and blames it on the current bogeyman.
its all so senseless – someone said in a previous comment – who benefits from this assassination? hmmmmmm
OT But important: telemarketers will be able to contact you via your cell phones unless you call to sign up by 12/30/07. The number to call to prevent them from accessing your cell lines apparently is 888 382 1222. (I am off to do mine). How come we got so little publicity on this from MSM? Both the telecoms and the telemarketers serve to benefit from this hugely (more credit card & mortgage scams no doubt). And, thanks, Dems for helping out your constituents again. Much appreciated.
I was reading the previous post and asking myself, “How could this be any worse?”
And then I found out that Arlen Specter is there.
I expect a big ramping up of US/Pakistani cooperation to go into the tribal regions…remember…Musharraf has nixed it so far, now he has a justification…and W needs to present OBL to the American people before the elections, so that Republican hero rule can continue…(Just a guess)
It IS all connected.
I think the first step to a Global Community is for us to envision it.
My thanks to CHS, as well.
In that case peanutbutter, I think the neocons believe that they stand to benefit. They have always advocated “creative chaos” as their plan for the middle east. And if Bush really does believe in the Bible and the end times, then perhaps he believes by bringing Armageddon his is helping. I wonder if he truly believes that though.
But look at the immediate results.
It appears large swathes of the country are blaming Musharraff and there is now serious risk of destabilization.
Sure it offers a predicate for a heavy handed crackdown, but that tends to backfire on despots who have worn out their welcome, witness Ceacescu in Romania (Shot on Christmas day after butchering rebellious Romanians) and the Shah of Iran (forced to flee and died in exile).
I don’t see the situation engulfing Pakistan as a great boon to Musharraf.
-G
Had the exact same thought about this giving bushco the excuse it needed to go into Pakistan to get OBL.
That would be nice but lets face it, beside politcal power the root cause of all this is religion. Once again we see what people of faith will do to further there cause. We will not even begin to consider the effects that religion has brought to the body politic. As long as the warring factions of god feel that killing hertics and differant sects of the same religion we will never see peace. America should look hard at what happens when theocracy rules instead of reason.
Noen: yup, the blackops and the globalist oligarchy, the more fractured at the local level, the more they can steal resources (think Congo diamonds & tin oxide).
Looks like Cheney just sent Spector a little Holiday Greeting.
Who benefits – let’s see: Musharaff blames the Al Qaeda extremists and vows to go after them. The GOP NEOCONS get to proclaim – look the evil doers are trying to get nukes and eliminate us off the planet. You better trust us to protect you. Meanwhile it is status quo behind the scenes.
I just read about special ops going into Pakistan about 2 days ago…
OBL is worth more alive than dead to W. Keeps fanning the terra war flames.
I would not rule out Musharraf and friends having a role if not the initial impetus.
They have kept extremely tight oversight on rivals to power via ISI’s eavesdropping. Tthis is likely how Musharraf knew the judges on the Supreme Court were going to rule against him and therefore he moved against them first.
One shouldn’t jump to the MSM’s and the Village’s immediate conclusion that this must be terrorism, unless one also includes high up on the list, state-sponsored terrorism.
Perhaps a good time to re-read Naomi Klein’s “Shock Doctrine”?
Religion didn’t cause this. Religion is merely the organzing factor for people who’ve been humiliated politically.
Musharaff has put down civil uprisings before. He controls the military. Wouldn’t be too tough to supress one again.
But the whole point is, it benefits US – hence the blackops. Musharaff is taken out as an aftermath of taking out Bhutto. Then we go after Taleban by buying them off (and/or traficing their heroin for them).
Over @ No Quarter, I just read HRC’s comment on the assassination, puts Dubya to shame (course it doesn’t take much to do that).
As Del Gue said in Jeremiah Johnson, “twarnt Mormons”!
What did she do, use a complete sentence?
See snopes on this:
Celling Your Soul
Richmond,
How many ways would you like to have that de-bunked?
FTC says not gonna happen
About.com calls it Urban Legend
Two for starters and FCC also says not happening.
On BBC radio, they just cited Benazir saying if the time comes that God wants her to go, then so be it…
You can’t really be serious?
Having Pakistan meltdown and having India go on red alert does not necessarily ‘benefit’ the US.
Having US troops invade another largely Muslim nation also does not necessarily benefit the US.
-G
And others. Then (smile) my sweetie (and me) were Gotten! Thanks. I like it when that happens, makes me feel properly duped.
“As the two leaders were meeting, security surrounding opposition leader Benazir Bhutto on the election campaign trail was strengthened after two bomb blasts ahead of a rally of her Pakistan People’s Party in a stadium in Peshawar.”
http://www.theaustralian.news……03,00.html
CNN has responses from most of the candidates:
http://politicalticker.blogs.c…..to-bhutto/
I think Biden has the best response.
Greg – I agree, but it Does serve to benefit a particular neocon-military-industrial-complex group in the US who are mighty powerful, and are in GREAT need of something happening to keep them in power.
Also, The NYTimes now has a photo album of Benazir Bhutto here. Worth a peek.
(long EPU’d comment -ck-)
Google “ISI and 9-11″ — The Pakistan Inter-Service-Intelligence created and sponsored both Al Qaeda and the Taliban. Shortly before the 9-11 attacks, Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh transfered $100,000 to 9-11 Ringleader Mohamed Atta — at the behest of ISI Chief Lt. General Mahmoud Ahmad, according to the Times of India.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO206A.html
http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/qfisi.html
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/KUP209A.html
Pakistan’s ISI ‘Fully Involved’ in 9/11
http://www.worldthreats.com/As…..209-11.htm
Osama bin Laden’s principal Pakistani adviser before Sept. 11, 2001, was retired Gen. Hamid Gul, a former ISI chief who, since the 2001 attacks, is “strategic adviser” to the coalition of six politico-religious parties that governs two of Pakistan’s four provinces. Known as MMA, the coalition also occupies 20 percent of the seats in the federal assembly in Islamabad. …
Gen. Gul worked closely with the CIA during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan when he was ISI chief. He was “mildly” fundamentalist in those days, he explained after Sept. 11, and indifferent to the United States. But he became passionately anti-American after the United States turned its back on Afghanistan following the 1989 Soviet withdrawal and began punishing Pakistan with economic and military sanctions for its secret nuclear buildup.
A ranking CIA official, speaking anonymously, said the agency considered Gen. Gul “the most dangerous man” in Pakistan. A senior Pakistani political leader, also on condition of anonymity, said, “I have reason to believe Hamid Gul was Osama bin Laden’s master planner.”
The report received by the Sept. 11 Commission from the anonymous, well-connected Pakistani source, said: “The core issue of instability and violence in South Asia is the character, activities and persistence of the militarized Islamist fundamentalist state in Pakistan. No cure for this canker can be arrived at through any strategy of negotiations, support and financial aid to the military regime, or by a ‘regulated’ transition to ‘democracy.’”
The confidential report continued: “The imprints of every major act of international Islamist terrorism invariably passes through Pakistan, right from September 11 — where virtually all the participants had trained, resided or met in, coordinated with, or received funding from or through Pakistan — to major acts of terrorism across South Asia and Southeast Asia, as well as major networks of terror that have been discovered in Europe.
“Pakistan has harvested an enormous price for its apparent ‘cooperation’ with the U.S., and in this it has combined deception and blackmail — including nuclear blackmail — to secure a continuous stream of concessions. Its conduct is little different from that of North Korea, which has in the past chosen the nuclear path to secure incremental aid from Western donors. A pattern of sustained nuclear blackmail has consistently been at the heart of Pakistan’s case for concessions, aid and a heightened threshold of international tolerance for its sponsorship and support of Islamist terrorism.
“To understand how this works, it is useful to conceive of Pakistan’s ISI as a state acting as terrorist traffickers, complaining that, if it does not receive the extraordinary dispensations and indulgences that it seeks, it will, in effect, ‘implode,’ and in the process do extraordinary harm.
Yes, the unpredictability of the angry masses can upset the best best laid plans of even the most ruthless despots. I would add Marcos to your list, as well.
Perception in politics can be just as powerful as reality. Even if Musharaff wasn’t involved (actively or benignly) the perception that he was could eventually lead to his ouster. In that case, the Pakistani Generals benefit. The Pakistani Armed Forces now have the perfect justification to assume and consolidate its hold on power.
GregB – The US does not benefit but the neocons believe that they do. They are delusional of course but since when has that stopped them?
Bagging OBL before the election to parade him around and show how well bushco’s war on terra is going will benefit the neocons. (at least in bush’s mind)
The US government (specifically BushCo) is the real loser in all this. BushCo doesn’t–and in fact can’t–control events there from now on.
It doesn’t benefit the US. It does benefit the Military Industrial Complex however. Perpetual war mean perpetual profits. Two of the most decorated and respected General in US history, Eisenhower and Butler tried to get people to realize this, yet few listen. I submit the last 6 years as evidence that they’re succeeding wildly in their goals.
http://warisaracket.com
Civil war and disruption is seen to be a plus!
I believe that eCHAN is not only serious, but I agree with her.
Blaming everything on religion is among other things, incorrect.
Urban Legend … NOT true
Telemarkers to call cell phones – FALSE
And I’m an atheist, so am no fan of religion. But I don’t think it’s the root cause here. Other times & places, yes.
Hmmm. Why now? Why did this happen today? Is it intended to impact the primaries here also? Major fears out there in the upper Rethug circles that Huckabee will get the nod. This could have been carried out 3 weeks from now, but it wasn’t. My sense is that both McCain and Gouli are seen to benefit from this. And either for the Rethugs would be better than the Huckaberry.
In addition to Eisenhower and Butler, JFK and recently Woodward have warned about the secret government.
And ignoring religion’s widespread malevolent influence is equally naive. And, eCAHN, you can say it’s not a “root cause” in this case, but it certainly is implicated to some degree.
ckls – Global Research is not a reliable source. It’s a cesspool of conspiracy theories. Anyone and everyone can can post “research” on that site, and they do.
“I read it on the internet so it must be true” is a very poor way to get your information.
Yes, I called it the organizing factor.
Bushco loves Musharaff. They have a special relationship. Bushco pays him billions and he dances for everybody.
There is religion and there is religion. The current “breed” of ultra rightwing religious proselytizers (Christian, Moslem and Jewish) are very damaging. Indeed within the last couple of years was a study that right wing religious folks (regarding of religion) share more in common with each other than they do with more liberal members of their various religions. Alas, we are now in that state of affairs for a significant group of believers.
I hope you know I honor your atheism. I just think it’s dangerous to blame everything on religion. Waste of time to go down a path based on invalid beliefs.
The military industrial complex is doing absolutely dandy as it is. They probably won’t end up doing so well if nuclear bombs start to fly around the world.
-G
This is really upsetting. Her previous terms in office may not have been perfect, but that’s hardly an option in a place like Pakistan. Still, who she was and what she represented was far better than that country has had for most of its history.
I remember she addressed a joint session of Congress when Bush I was president. I can’t tell you now anything she said. I just recall being very moved. A modern, western-educated Islamic woman as the head of her country, standing there in the House chamber, talking about her hopes for, and the difficulties of, establishing civilian rule and genuine self-government in a place so long unstable and dominated by the military.
Extremists benefit from this. They do this precisely because it polarizes everyone and makes extremists of their enemies (if they weren’t already), who then all too often respond in ways that they can take advantage of. And Pakistan is still the shortest route to an extremist “Islamic” state with nukes.
BBC saying Bhutto stood up in the open roof of the car to wave and was then shot by someone in the sidelines…
Looking at the footage, it is interesting that the person was right at the exact point in the crowd when she stood up, because the footage does not record her standing up as she drives off from the rally.
Re: the role of religion:
Islamic fundamentalists have been interested in taking over the country for some time now by first destabilizing it. They’ve targeted Musharraf several times. But precisely what role religion played in this particular assassination is open to question.
Parliamentary elections (which his party was expected to lose) have already been “postponed” according to pakspectator.com. And the US was pressuring Musharraf to enter into a power-sharing agreement with Bhutto (who publicly favored greater US involvement in the effort against “Islamic militants” — something that the other opposition leader (Sharif) is opposed to.
So while I don’t think that this benefits the US, it does benefit Musharraf to a very large extent — although I doubt if he was directly involved. Much more likely is that he pulled a Henry II(”Who will rid me of this troublesome priest”), and elements in the ISI arranged the rest. (but lets not forget that Musharraf lifted the “state of emergency” just days ago…)
Yet another thing we have in common.
They are the ones who pressed most strenuously to do away with nuclear non-proliferation. They WANT every country to be armed up the gazoo.
Jeralyn has the reactions of all of the U.S. presidential candidates.
The more chaos in Pakistan the better for US policy. We can’t make more of a mess in Iraq so that is just more of the same. But, Pakistan is fresh blood and a great way to escalate military activity in Afghanistan.
But they don’t want everyone blowing the world up. You can’t spend all your money in Monte Carlo during a nuclear winter.
-G
not to mention NUCLEAR!
Blaming everything on religion, in cases where it is not the root cause, will lead to policies that are counterproductive. I’m listening to al Jazeera’s English TV on another window & some expert was talking about political disenfranchisement in the province of Sind. Since I’m going back & forth on several news sources, I picked up the story in the middle, so I don’t know what the issue is there. I raise the story to illustrate that there are strong political elements going on in Pakistan, and that a possible solution might be more empowerment for minorities, stronger civil society organizations. If you thinnk the root cause is religion, what is the policy that arises from that?
Not that I’m a Pak expert.
A bit off-thread, but I’m not so sure about that anymore. Like any good parasite, it does best when its host is also doing well. Given the slowing of the economy as a whole, we’re getting to the “guns or butter” thoughts within the general population — it was a lot easier to be cavalier about government contracts when there wasn’t a multi-
billiontrillion debt. The citizenry can only get scared into supporting the military at all costs for so long, in other words, and we’re getting close to that point.The Taliban is already doing a good job of escalating things in Afghanistan and have been for quite a while.
BBC WS now noting that Bhutto was attacked as she was leaving the secured area. So security may not have been quite as bad as previously thought.
The odds of an assassin being right in front of you at the exact moment you stand up unprotected are what? A zillion to one?
Pakistan is a Islamic state. Bhutto would have brought a more secular goverment to Pakistan. Religion is the base for politcal power in a islamic state. With that said, any means are justified to further the word of god. The people who did this horrible act will justify it by saying it was the will of god.
Great point, and this would also help the Rethugs, by “turning around” the economy in time for the election.
Oh, I agree, Bilbo.
I would hope I’m not naive enough to ignore a Huge List of the malevolent affects that people who claim to be faithful followers have wrought on this world.
I abhor this God On Our Side philosophy we hear too much. The worst kind of hypocracy.
I would rather talk to an honest atheist than to a lying Christian or follower of an other faith who uses their so called beliefs as an excuse for their ego.
Who exactly controls the nukes in Pakistan? Do we know exactly what range their missles have? Could they reach Europe?
guess i’ll be needing more paint.
http://freewayblogger.blogspot…..earth.html
Christy:
Daniel Markey of CFR is less of an expert on Pakistan than Stephen P. Cohen of the Brookings Institution.
The “only” people who could have known when she would stand up to wave are……
Oh yeah, Al Qaeda.
Right on girl. And nukes in Pakistand are not speculation. What a convenient truth this is!
Yours is a cogent analysis. Henry II, certainly did avail himself of that pain-in-the-ass archbishop.
Biodun — Yes, I know. But Cohen didn’t have the interesting article that I found in Foreign Affairs. Hence my question — was trying to determine if he had Cheney or neocon ties or what his angle was…
I was merely publicly stating my condolences to the Bhutto family and the people of Pakistan. My comment made no mention, implicitly or otherwise, about the role of religion or politics.
I am agnostic myself-I have more questions than any religion could hope to answer for me-but I would be very careful about condemning religion as “the root cause of all this.” Martin Luther King, Jr. and Mohandas Gandhi come to mind as two religious leaders who would be horrified at this latest turn of events. Blanket accusations of those who think or worship differently from ourselves serves no useful purpose.
Unless there are those who believe they can go elsewhere and thrive there. Like Dubai. Not just Haliburton, but many wealthy elites have been moving to Dubai. I’ve seen ads for movers who claim to be able to move you there painlessly. For a handsome price, but these are people for who a few grand is chump change.
Go to wiki for all that info. I posted some stuff at FDL on all that a while ago.
There are billions of Muslims living in “Islamic” states where religion is NOT the base for political power.
It is more so in Pak because its origin was splitting of India by confessionals, so religion became part of its identity from the getgo & it’s had a hard time growing out of that beginning. See Pak: Between Mosque & Military by Husain Haqqani.
Perfect timing for her to be at a rally…just in time to stop the elections.
The Picasso of Peace.
Gee, I’m guessing that the odds that an assassin would pick up on an opportunity like that are pretty good.
Love the captions!
There is no doubt that the route cause of the unrest will be found in religious motivations of fundamentalists.
Will do. Thanks.
And the odds of unmarked emergency vehicles right there to rush the folks out? a zillion squared.
The American public can indeed be made to rally around one more cause or two or three, in spite of the fact that the US is dead broke. The Media will assist Bushco in any way possible.
Did you listen to Inskeep and Liarson this morning on (liberal, my arse) NPR? It seems that the Democrats are at fault for not being able to get anything accomplished in Congress and they will face the wrath of the voting public in 2008. Republicans are cuddly teddy bears.
The odds are pretty good, if someone is trying to assassinate you. Send a suicide bomber with a gun to every rally. They get a shot when they get a shot, and then blow themselves up.
No politician is exempt from assassination if the assassin doesn’t want to survive the attack.
Um, I would think that Bhutto didn’t go anywhere without having unmarked emergency vehicles in train. That would be security 101.
in any country
Time for another “state of emergency”?….
Rawalpindi is a “garrison” city — its the HQ of the Pakistan military, and Musharraf has a home there. Back in September, two suicide bombers did manage to get through security and kill dozens of people — which was a huge embarrassment to the military and security services.
IMHO, the idea that this assassination — which included both a gun and a bomb — took place in this city without the co-operation of security service personnel is pretty far-fetched. The question isn’t IF there are military and/or ISI people involved, the only question is how high up it goes, and who they were working for.
I hope to one day shake your hand and come away with a keepsake paint stain. Go freeway, Go!
I am not finding anything. Can you be more specific about where I can find this information? Like, which wiki to look at, and what FDL thread you posted to (if you remember)?
Thanks.
On the other hand, the news reports are that the majority of Pakistanis are taking the obvious path of blaming Musharraf. This is the kind of excellent “bank shot” that any other group interested in overthrowing both Musharaff and opposing groups. It just seems fruitless, and possibly harmful, to get to adamant in speculation right now.
Christy @ 91:
I’ve been doing some digging. Can’t find any Cheney or neocon ties so far…
how does the fact that she was a woman affect all this?
I stopped listening to NPR a long time ago. The GOP couldn’t kill them off so they just turned them into crap like they do everything else.
That the assassin had a gun and a bomb he was possibly going to blow-up the automobile, but the oppourtunity to shoot arose. Also there may have been other potential assassins in the crowd awaiting oppourtunity, especially if it was a planned operation. Back-ups to back-ups?
Agree.
FWIW, Rawalpindi is also right next to Islamabad… You can just walk there from Islamabad.
How will Bhutto’s assassination affect the presidential race?
from The Carpetbagger Report by Carpetbagger
I got my first email that Pakistani opposition leader Benazir Bhutto had been killed at 8:47 a.m. this morning. I started hearing about “what this means” for the U.S. presidential race by about 8:56 a.m. (By 9:30 a.m., Joe Scarborough apparently was telling MSNBC viewers that this is good news for Rudy Giuliani.) It’s just that kind of news cycle, I suppose.
Given that details of the events in Rawalpindi are still emerging, it’s obviously far too soon to know what effect, if any, this might have on the Dems’ and Republicans’ nominating process. Indeed, it’s not unreasonable to think most Americans probably don’t know who Benazir Bhutto is, and her assassination will not necessarily influence their presidential preferences.
It would depend if the vehicles were with her entourage or just stationary at the spot of the assassination -and what was specifically written on them I guess.
Thus it is be the job of the media to make sure they make the “proper” connections.
Tom Casey of the State Department in news conference on C-SPAN – now. Reporters trying to get him to admit their were fundamentalists within the Pakistani military. The question rephrased several ways. Casey refuses to answer in other than generic terms. It points elsewhere other than the military.
Which is something to be very concerned about.
I weep for Benazir Bhutto’s children.
Her interview with CNN was just on the teevee, and she spoke about her reasons for returning to Pakistan in the face of such danger — primarily her interest in seeing her children live in a free and democratic country.
So sad.
PhysioProf @ 110:
I have the link but the toobz (the java key) is not letting me post it. Type “Pakistan and the weapons of mass destruction” into wiki. It’ll come up.
So now some Pakistani people are carrying her body in a casket throughout the city, just a few hours after her assassination…what does this do to any competent autopsy and evidentiary process?!
As the United States needs to be purged of Republicans, Pakistan needs to purge its military of fundamentalist sympathies.
Confused as to why Casey answering questions in “generic terms” regarding the possibility of fundamentalists being in the Pakistani military would imply that they are not a probable suspect.
I refer to NPR as National Propaganda Radio. They are a mere shadow of their glory days during the Watergate hearings. There spin is decidedly right leaning and status quo.
PhysioProf @ 110:
The link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P…..estruction
The Freewayblogger-One of My Heroes
A person for all seasons.
I knew it was over when they fired Bob Edwards and replaced with that boob Steve Inskeep.
This is tradition in Muslim religion. If you recall, after the accident of Diana and Dodi, Dodi’s family pleaded with authorities for his body so he could be buried within 24 hours.
I’m inclined to agree with eCahn. If you take any social studies book and look at various invasions/expansion of empire, you see the grab for resources justified by “spread of religion” but that’s BS. religion is only an excuse, not the reason.
Every one from a despot to a “reformed” ex-con discovers how handy it is to realize “you can’t argue with God”.
Rejecting something because you mistrust the URL is not the best way to become informed.
From the Foreign Affairs article Christy linked to –
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/…..istan.html
Just because the MSM and respected sources such as Foreign Affairs are loathe to connect the dots, it doesn’t mean the dots do not exist, or are not connected.
This is all somewhat tangential to the assassination of Benazir Bhutto, but it is essential to understanding the true power centers in Pakistan, and why the “War on Terror” is a pathetic charade.
Read Daniel Markley’s words very carefully: “Even before the dust had settled on 9/11, U.S. policymakers were well aware that Pakistan was at the center of the world’s worst Islamist terrorist networks.”
What was the world’s worst terrorist network on 9-11? Al Qaeda. Where is Osama “hiding”? Pakistan.
Figure it out — connect the dots . . .
Hmm – couldn’t have anything to do with the Jan 8th election in Pakistan? It’s not *all* about Hillary/Edwards/Obama and Rudy McRomnabee, *all* the time…
CHS: “Assassination”
Beautiful; thanks!
That’s a really good observation.
Well that too :-)
Oh, yes, I know. I just think that in this situation, with so much at stake for the world, not just Pakistan, that authorities could have done something about it…
Musharraf is blaming extremist. Surprise! Surprise!
It’s better to call and appear a fool than not to call and remove all doubt!
That evil is easily and commonly justified by an appeal to the “spread of religion” doesn’t exactly exonerate religion, or its adherents.
Obama Was Right….Hillary Wrong Re: PAKISTAN
With todays terrible announcement of Benazir Bhutto’s assasination in Pakistan, one can’t help but be reminded of a recent Democratic debate in which Hillary Clinton literally laughed at Barack Obama’s statement that the United States should concentrate on the unrest in Pakistan even if it meant sending U.S. troops to the Afgan/Pakistan border where the Taliban, al-queda and other terrorists are camped. Hillary did her pompous, smirky laugh stating that Obama wants to ’talk to our enemies (Iran) and attack our allies’ (Pakistan border). But as events unfold in the region we are learning more and more of just how disasterously wrong she and our foreign policy have been. We are supporting a crazy dictator (Musharraf) who we have given millions of dollars to….who has point blank told us that he will not go to the Pakistan border to address the true terrorists because they ’made a deal’. It doesn’t matter that crazy Mu has weapons of mass destruction and is probably hiding Bin Laden in the border region. And to Hillary…..this is all just fine. Is this the great ’experience’ that she boasts having ? Now, as we watch the turmoil increase in the Pakistan region Hillary will surely state that we need her ’experience’ to handle the situation when in fact, it is this very mindset or experience that is leading America and the entire world toward catastrophe. Face it Hillary…..You are wrong…Obama was right. Oh…..and need I mention that the recent findings show that our ’enemy’ hasn’t had a weapons program for years ? But Hillary voted to basically crush Iran……..wrong again Hill. And to top things off….you’ll probably stay supportive of Crazy Mu along with the other Bushites and regime controlled media ’experts’ ! With ’experience’ like yours…..who needs enemies ?
Greg ’Peace Song’ Jones
It’s a good way to keep from getting sucked into bullshit conspiracy theories.
Is that what passes for critical thinking these days? How do you even survive?
No, you connect those dots. I’ve done my research and I’m pretty damn sick of the filth that passes for “truth” these days. You don’t have it, you’re not even in the same ballpark.
true. I guess my point is, it isn’t simply and solely religion that is responsible for the mayhem. But I understand your point as well.
Just saw the pix of the ambulances with “rescue” on them (up at Huffington). In Pakistan, wouldn’t the words on an ambulence be written in Arabic or a local dialect?
Silly, you forgot that the world revolves around the US.
Orwell acted alone.
There are no UFOs.
There was no controlled demolition.
That’s closer to the truth than you’ll EVER get ckls.
However, if the US had a part in this through blackops (as seems quite plausible) then the timing etc. would have also served US purposes. In short, one might have waited until after then Iowa and NH primaries.
Urdu is the national language, but there are others, including English.
No, it would be written in English since it is the official first lang of Pakistan. Urdu is the spoken language.
Considering that Pakistan was part of the British Empire for so long English is probably the quasi-official if not official language of Pakistan.:)
As was pointed out to me on a previous thread, English is one of the two official languages of Pakistan. A Wiki article says English is especially used in the civil services.
English is the official language of Pakistan. Urdu (اردو) is its “national language”.
Thanks on the English language question everyone.
Benazir Bhutto’s Slate Diaries in 1997.
Umm – this came up in an earlier thread, I think. English is an official language in Pakistan (colonial past).
D’oh!
Before the parition in 1947, Pakistan and India were part of the British Raj…
this bushco regime has really made democracy spread hasn’t it…..
So how’d colonialism work out for the British Empire?
about as well as american imperialism is doing now………….
From my link @ 160:
Do you mean for the top 1 % or everybody else?
“The Incredible Shrinking Democracy”
Coming to a theater near you soon.
Complete with gory closeups.
I don’t see that this benefits any candidate. The forever-wrong news people seem to think it’s all about America, but most voters could care less about what happens in Pakistan. But “if it bleeds, it leads.”
Churchill said that “democracy was two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner.”
what a helluva way to end this year….and yet bushco is still in the WH……wreaking more and more havoc
Why were Sen. Specter and Rep. Patrick Kennedy in Pakistan one day after Christmas?
Why is the PNAC/ Cheney future map of the middle east looking like the ultimate goal?
Grrrrrr-hungry.
You simply must read Joe Klein’s blog at Swampland about the Bhutto assassination. It all about Joe Klein !
I’d rather drive nails through my foot. How about you provide a succinct summary?
From juan cole site: With Benazir’s assassination, the Rice Plan is in tatters and Bush administration policy toward Pakistan and Afghanistan is tottering.
I link to that map all the time in my comments. Everyone should look at it. A propos of which — Dennis Ross, Kenneth Pollack (yes! he’s still an esteemed expert!), David Fromkin and a fourth I don’t remember presented a kindler, gentler version of this fantasy of sectarian partitions in the print Vanity Fair in their essay on the “natural contours” of the Middle East.
Well, whatever happens, TradMed will say it’s good for Republicans.
Isn’t everything good for Republicans?
Did Ross and Pollack also have Israel witin it pre-1967 borders?
IAGFR
OK, my faulty memory again. Who was it that was recently slapping neo cons down on the threat of Iran and pointing to Pakistan instead? Was it Rachel Maddow?
“Twould appear so . . .
The worse things get for genuine human beings, the better for thugs everywhere.
‘In confusion lies opportunity . . .’
(It’s a ‘plan’)
Shocking!!!
Anybody know anything about reliability/bias/etc of this military information Web site?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/
Ah, not so faulty memory after all. I found this on Raw Story dated 10/18/07:
Rachel speaks for me (that’s my emphasis above).
When I looked at the site they had an ad showing a guy in a wheel chair (amputee?) and a comment about injury take away your sex drive – it was pushing poro dvds I think (when I went back to check, it no longer came up). That says as much about the reality for the miitary-4-hire folks as anything.
Compared to Iran, Pakistan is:
– much larger, 165M vs 65M
– more advanced in terms of nuclear technology
– more of a supporter of terrorism, e.g., they spawned the Taliban.
The key difference is that Pakistan is less critical of and close to Israel.
To the best of my knowledge it is pretty reliable. It seems to be a cog in the military machine and all, but the stats and facts seem to be legit.
-G
FYI, Christy has a new post upstairs.
I agree with GregB. Someone has put a lot of work in on this site. It has articles on some interesting topics and make plausible claims, but there is a remarkable lack of external links to sources. I’d recommend cross checking their claims.
Cheney has stupidly been involved in hemorrhaging billions of dollars into Pakistan with little or no return for the bucks–and Pakistan instability means a lot of factions with nukes:
Billions in Aid to Pakistan Was Wasted, Officials Assert as Indifferent America Yawns
“In that case peanutbutter, I think the neocons believe that they stand to benefit. They have always advocated “creative chaos” as their plan for the middle east.’
Professor Bernard Lewis Princeton (google)espoused destabilization, Naomi’s schock doctrine in action…during the chaos take the offensive and implement strategies. Afraid you are right the global culture is so instabile it is a slam dunk.
In response to puravida @ 4
That would be nice but lets face it, beside politcal power the root cause of all this is religion. Once again we see what people of faith will do to further there cause. We will not even begin to consider the effects that religion has brought to the body politic. As long as the warring factions of god feel that killing hertics and differant sects of the same religion we will never see peace. America should look hard at what happens when theocracy rules instead of reason.
Religions!!! SO God has planned all this? That presupposes such a being. To weird.
In response to eCAHNomics @ 57
I hope you know I honor your atheism. I just think it’s dangerous to blame everything on religion. Waste of time to go down a path based on invalid beliefs.
A little clarity… church and state separation serves government. When religious orgs get into government this is the by product.
Isn’t it true that when the Taleban took over Afghanistan they shut off the growing of poppies.
It’s only since they have been kicked out of Afghanistan by the Bush administration that poppies are growing again.
So you think that Huffington faked them?
Actually English is frequently used as the common language in Pakistan because of the diversity of tongues spoken there (same with India). Arabic is not a common language, spoken mainly by some small minorities that immigrated from Arabia. It is, of course, read to a limited degree to follow the Quran (but words like Ambulance are unlikely to be in there).