Login HereI can't say I've seen every bit of coverage of today's assassination in Pakistan, but here's a question I haven't seen asked squarely: How did having 150,000 or so U.S. soldiers in Iraq (the supposed "central front in the war on terror") deter Benazir Bhutto's murder by (apparently) al-Qaeda? The answer, of course, is not at all -- and there's an important lesson there that needs to be injected into our national political conversation.
As Matt Yglesias wrote earlier this afternoon:
. . . it seems to me that we desperately need to break away from the "trouble abroad, let's turn to hawkier hawks!" mode of organizing our politics. After all, there was a strategic choice undertaken by the United States of America during the year 2002 to refocus our attention away from Central Asia and the Pakistan/Afghanistan area and toward the Persian Gulf. That was, of course, the "tough," "strong," "serious" thing to do.
Many readers (um, some? At least a few? Please?) will note that I've been beating this drum for more than two and a half years, writing about the basic distinction of bluster versus responsibility and the need to consciously rehabilitate and reclaim common sense as an approach for addressing policy issues, especially with regard to national security.
It's vitally important that we not just roll our eyes as GOP pols and their brain-dead courtiers in the media try to orchestrate "conventional wisdom" that more boastful hawkishness is the answer to the problems boastful hawkishness has created, saying "how dare they" or "we expected that." We need to make clear, even to bedrock-stupid pundits like Andrew Sullivan, that talking tough for its own sake brings not safety or order, but chaos -- as the events of not just today but the past four and a half years make abundantly clear.
We need to start asserting the value of thinking about what works, not just what sounds like the most macho response. How many more catastrophes do we need before we stop cleaning out the genuine experts from our government in favor of those who assert that they "understand the stakes" and make decisions "from their gut"? Those posturing phonies pretend that such claims make them more "authentic," moral, and tough... but they're nothing of the sort. They are, however, authentically dangerous.
Share This 
Spotlight
Support this site!
Keep up with news
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search
RSS/XML Feed
zed?
zed?
Hey Swopa, I’ll vouch for you. You’ve been a lonely voice crying in the wilderness, hairshirt, etc.
I have asked this before with snark …
how can we vote out the taking heads?
Why don’t talking heads have a term limits?
Why can’t we vote them off the island?
Convoluted logic = facts to the GOP, hence, the “war on terror” let’s just mix it all up in the same batch of cookies & ignore the peanuts in the pecan sandies.
And just exactly who was Ms. Bhutto’s opposition?
Do you think our President approved of Ms. Bhutto’s demise?
I’m a little surprised that the chatterboxes on TV think that Benazir Bhutto’s assassination is going to have any effect on American politics at all, particularly on the upcoming primaries. If you interviewed a hundred people on the street and asked them, “Who is Benazir Bhutto?”, I’ll bet the most common answer would be, “Um, I think he’s a rapper.” I’ll also bet that fewer than 10% will know that the “President” of Pakistan recently declared martial law. Most Americans don’t know (or care) what’s going on halfway around the world.
Sorry for the cookie metaphor, still a lot of holiday treats laying around.
Why was anyone in this administration not listening to Dr. Barnett Rubin? I think this interview at TPM was the most informative of anything I’ve read today about Pakistan. Good minds are definitely out there, but not desired by these “CEO” types. Driving the country into bankruptcy both economically and morally.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/
They’ll care when we deploy troops to help stabilize the situation.
What was kennedy and spector suppose to talk to PM. Bhutto today, about? I think I missed a connecting thread somewhere along this very long webb..
I seriously doubt it. She was Condi’s plan to save Pakistan, after all. I doubt that even Cheney wanted to get rid of her. She could have been bought off, after all, and then he would have been able to bomb the shit out of the tribal areas of Pakistan.
George likes Musharraf. Musharraf didn’t like Bhutto. Musharraf likes GWB. Connect the dots folks. This is foreign policy. The verb.
Someone over at Glenn Greenwald’s site dug this out for me. I think it’s consistent with Swopa’s theme in this post. It’s a pretty good way to think about foreign policy and foreign entanglements.
Patrick Garrity, “Warnings of a Parting Friend (US Foreign Policy Envisioned by George Washington in his Farewell Address),” The National Interest, No. 45, Fall 1996
Oh goody. Now we can all do the terrorist thingie again.
I have heard it said a time or two that in certain parts of the world, that nothing is as it seems. ;0)
They won’t care enough to do anything about it. And any troops we send will be troops that would have gone to Iraq, anyway. The only way Joe Sixpack is going to pay attention to Pakistan is if Bush tries to institute a draft to fight it. I just don’t see that happening. I suppose he could try the “Osama’s hiding there!” argument, but that would require acknowledging that Osama is still alive and isn’t in Iraq. That would be a little too tricky for Bush to pull off.
When it comes to foreign policy and violent death in Muslim countries, I surely do trust what our GOP prez tells us.
News of old single bullet Specter in Pakistan sure melts my tin-foil hat.
“I suppose he could try the “Osama’s hiding there!” argument, but that would require acknowledging that Osama is still alive and isn’t in Iraq. That would be a little too tricky for Bush to pull off.”
Bush would also have to acknowledge the failure to capture OBL at Tora Bora.
True. But I think this is most likely exactly what it looks like–a nutcase religious extremist, with the backing of other nutcase religious extremists. I suspect that Osama will be taking credit for it in his next YouTube video.
What are you, some kind of terrorist-loving America-hating defeatist?
Seriously, great post. What you say is self-evident to even the most barely lucid American citizen. Unfortunately, only a small minority is barely lucid.
“Mistakes were made.” I suspect he could get away with blaming that on Bill Clinton. It’s not like the White House Press Corps would call him on it.
Who in their right mind could possibly think our leader (George) would have had prior knowledge that Ms. Bhutto would be murdered? In any event, the record is clear about our prez’s veracity. Just look at Iraq.
Well… I suppose we may just have to disagree on this one.;0)
Fixed it for you.
The view in this house, based upon the record, is that Cheney, Rove, Rice and Bush are capable of anything. Including murder.
Not al qaeda, not mushy?
sounds reasonable to me…
With Bhutto gone it certainly levels the playing field. Now doesn’t it? Yeah, right. Ask youself, who benefits from Bhutto’s death?
Word from MSM. All Dem candidates are saying Bhuttos assassination is a serious blow to democracy, except for Richardson I think, who says Musharraf should step aside. I think I saw a clip of Musharraf wearing civilian clothes too (hmmmm.) Local Pakistani-Americans interviewed in CT are saying her assassination is equivalent to the assination of the Kennedys. And they are worried about their relatives in Pakistan.
I love how CNN props up Rudy’s supposed terrorism-fightin’-cred. Make him mayor of Pakistan already.
We need a leader who’s smart enough to know that “kicking butt” as a first resort just shows them exactly the limits of our power, whereas using the minimum necessary and keeping them guessing does more to keep us safe.
One of the stupidest things in seven long years of neocon stupidity is that they believed that because we had the most powerful military in the world, that meant it was infinitely powerful.
The problem Bush would have is that his own commanders in Afghanistan were pleading with the administration for the resources to go after OBL (sorry, I don’t have a link, but there is one).
But beyond that it puts all the current Repub Prez candidates in the uncomfortable position of defending or attacking Bush on the issue. And as I recall, even Rove has said they need to distance themslves from Bush to stand a chance in November 08. So whether they attack or defend Bush’s actions regarding OBL it still puts Bush, OBL, and the repub candidates in one big media basket. They can talk tough all they want-the failure at Tora Bora is “still out there.”
Musharraf may be an S.O.B. But by Gawd, he’s our SOB.
In a morning thread somebody mentioned John Negroponte our former South American death squad diplomat having visited Pakistan recently after being demoted?
Guys like him retire they don’t need to work, unless they need less visibility.
That’s right. Just like Somoza was in Nicaragua. (The entire dynasty was, in fact.)
Laura to George after a cranky day at the office: Gee dear, it’s actually been a good day, after all, Benezir isn’t a problem any more.
Didn’t he write his Master’s thesis on Pakistani politics?
Hey puravida, are you in Costa Rica? I love Costa Rica.
Always. :) From my standpoint, though, I would only suspect the involvement of George W Bush if the assassination had been thoroughly botched.
I think Rudy wrote My Pet Goat.
The impression here is that Negroponte is a very nasty piece of work.
IIRC, Negroponte was the one who was sent over to tell Musharraf not to declare a state of emergency. Musharraf didn’t even wait until he was out of the country to ignore him and go ahead with it.
Rudy ate My Pet Goat - after Judy tortured it.
You appear to be getting close to the truth. ;0)
Oooh, I wish! I spent some time there years ago and have never forgotten the term “puravida.” Word(s) to live by!
I keep harping on this i know. But when things like the Bhutto business comes up, I look at the Bush record.
What if good buddy Musharraf (receiver of billions of us dollars for his supposed cooperation) whined a lot to his buddies at Bushco about having to accept Bhutto. Would Bushco fix things for him? Keep in mind that the Bhutto family compares to the Kennedy dynasty in the US (according to Juan Cole).
It is interesting that you touch upon
, and it’s great that you have talking about it for awhile. It certainly becomes more and more an inescapable critique given present circumstance now unfolding. We definitely need, and people all across the planet are calling out for, a change in this patter. As ML King Jr Said. “Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction…. The chain reaction of evil - hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars - must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation.” Martin Luther King Jr. Speech in Detroit, Michigan, (June 23, 1963)
At my school I have been attempting to control military incursion by groups like the Young Marines and the California Cadet Corps. I am constantly getting into discussions with other middle school teachers who believe that the military ethos teaches responsibility, discipline, and leadership. And yet, as I just wrote to a teacher with this attitude last week : “The more and more I investigate war, and the more and more experience I gain as an inner-city teacher, the more and more I am convinced that the warrior ethos so ingrained in American male culture is absolute lie designed to control and disempower us as we face the real challenges of the future.”
Todays assassination is one more culmination of the failure of the Cheney world control doctrine, and more people will die because of it.
If Negroponte showed up at my door, I know I’d be pushin’ up daisies soon. He’s a scary m*therf*cker. Ice water runs through his veins.
That was the cover story Negroponte probably gave the General Bush’s personal OK. He probably told told the General to start being a man and handle the situation and that when he was in South America the CIA taught Death Squads would rape American Nuns if they got in the way. He probably said start cracking down now, now I need plausible deniability.
Nobody sends Negroponte out with his record to tell people to be nice.
Let’s for a moment put it another way. Suppose for brief second that all of a sudden Mitt and Rudy were, shall we say, ‘not a problem’, what Republican prez candidate would benefit? Do I think that Pervez benefits, and indirectly GWB, from Ms. Bhutto’s untimely death?
I am thinking along these lines myself. Wherever Negroponte touches down, death and destruction follows shortly thereafter. He turned Central and South America into killing fields.
Did you see where Edwards talked to Musharraf today. he called him and asked him to call back and he did.
http://learfield.typepad.com/r.....ds-ta.html
So after all this carniage today, who in there right mind is going to run against bushcos BF Musharraf?
And Arlen will tell you how to investigate thoroughly. /s
If I accept, and I do, that George W. Bush is a very dirty and naughty boy, who has had his fingers in a lot of nasty pies over the last seven years, I want someone to thoroughly convince me that our president isn’t pleased about Bhutto’s demise.
An excellent point I hadn’t yet considered. Who, indeed. He’d have to have a death wish.
You are so absolutely right Swopa….
…and just exactly how would Ghouliani, Romney, or McCain have prevented Bhutto’s assassination by terrorists or political opponents?? They could not have, and they didn’t.
Just how would they have prevented the bloodshed we have seen in Iraq and Afghanistan? They could have but they didn’t.
Just how would they have prevented 9/11? They just didn’t.
What a stupid bunch of B.S. from these people.
The only one that sounds reasonable to me is Biden. He is the only one that has a decent grasp of foreign policy. HRC, not so much. Obama…not. Edwards…not.
Biden is the only one running that knows what he’s talking about and maybe Dodd too, but not as much as Biden.
Had Biden or Dodd been president, could they have prevented this assassination? No. Could they have prevented the disasters of Iraq and Afghanistan? Yes. Could they have prevented 9/11? Who knows.
The whole War on Terra is a scam and a disgrace to further neocon agenda.
My lady and me were in Central America (specifically Honduras) during the reign of Negroponte. It was not a very pretty situation.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com.....ernational
‘Bhutto on going home to Pakistan’
‘Despite the death threats, I will not acquiesce to tyranny, but lead the fight against it,’ former prime minister wrote
BENAZIR BHUTTO
From Thursday’s Globe and Mail
October 18, 2007 at 10:18 AM EST
As I board the plane that takes me home to Pakistan today, I carry with me a manuscript of a book I am writing that will be published shortly.
It is a treatise on the reconciliation of the values of Islam and the West and a prescription for a moderate and modern Islam that marginalizes religious extremists, returns the military from politics to their barracks, treats all citizens and especially women with full and equal rights, selects its leaders by free and fair elections, and provides for transparent, democratic governance that addresses the social and economic needs of the people as its highest priority.
To me, this is not just a book but a campaign manifesto, a guide to governing. If the people of Pakistan honour me again with an opportunity to lead, I fully intend to practise what I preach, to have my actions match my rhetoric and to make Pakistan a positive model for one billion Muslims around the world.
For 60 years, my nation has lurched between military dictatorships and democracy. The promise that is Pakistan has been stifled by political oppression and economic stagnation. For almost a decade, we have been ruled by a military dictatorship. For the past five years, we have been challenged by an international terrorism movement that seems, unfortunately, to have the tribal areas of Pakistan at its very epicentre. These are not ordinary times, and they require extraordinary solutions.
Over the past several months, I have negotiated with General Pervez Musharraf to simultaneously ensure a transition to democracy in Pakistan and to mobilize the moderate middle of our society to confront and contain fanatics and extremists. It has been a difficult process, made even more difficult by the resistance of many who now enjoy power in Pakistan to accepting a democratic alternative.
But the long discussions have borne some fruit. In September, Gen. Musharraf promised Pakistan’s Supreme Court he would retire from the post of army chief before taking the oath of office for President for a new term. This month, the government of Pakistan announced a set of confidence-building measures codified initially in the Ordinance of National Reconciliation to pave the way for a legitimate and accountable Parliament.
It is not a perfect agreement, and it certainly is not an end to the process. But it is an important beginning to the transition to democracy, with the goal of bringing reform and political change without the chaos and bloodshed under which extremism and militancy thrive. In the next phase, more confidence-building measures are expected.
As I board the plane to Pakistan, I am fully aware that the supporters of the Taliban and al-Qaeda have publicly threatened my assassination.
Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud has said his terrorists will “welcome” me on my return. Everyone understands the meaning of these comments. And I fully understand the men behind al-Qaeda. They have tried to assassinate me twice before. The Pakistan People’s Party and I represent everything they fear the most - moderation, democracy, equality for women, information and technology. We represent the future of a modern Pakistan, a future that has no place in it for ignorance, intolerance and terrorism.
The forces of moderation and democracy must, and will, prevail against extremism and dictatorship. I will not be intimidated. I will step out on the tarmac in Karachi not to complete a journey, but to begin one. Despite the death threats, I will not acquiesce to tyranny, but lead the fight against it.
emphasis mine, R.I.P. Mme. Bhutto.
Negroponte and Kissinger are still heavy hitters. Can you believe it?
cricket, cricket, the silence is deafening isn’t it?
Yes, especially after this performance:
“…during the 2000 Republican Presidential primary race, conservative commentator Tucker Carlson interviewed Bush for Talk Magazine (September 1999, p. 106). Excerpt from this interview is quoted below:
In the weeks before the execution, Bush says, a number of protesters came to Austin to demand clemency for Karla Faye Tucker. “Did you meet with any of them?” I ask. Bush whips around and stares at me. “No, I didn’t meet with any of them”, he snaps, as though I’ve just asked the dumbest, most offensive question ever posed. “I didn’t meet with Larry King either when he came down for it. I watched his interview with Tucker, though. He asked her real difficult questions like, ‘What would you say to Governor Bush?’” “What was her answer?” I wonder. “‘Please,’” Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, “‘don’t kill me.’” I must look shocked — ridiculing the pleas of a condemned prisoner who has since been executed seems odd and cruel — because he immediately stops smirking.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Faye_Tucker
Perhaps Laura will attend the funeral.
I think even Rudy is getting embarrassed spouting out the islamofascist crap, because after all he needs business in the M.E. and his clients have been “connected”…he’ll need those “islamofascists” (i.e., the M.E. corporate connections) to survive financially should he not be elected….you can hear it in his voice…
Paul Krugman hits the nail on the head…
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/
What doesn’t work:
Massive military responses to terrorist attacks. You don’t bomb terrorists out of existence — you bomb them into existence.
Wholesale violations of human rights, international law, and rock-bottom decency in response to — or in imagined prevention of — terrorist attacks. How do you discourage lawlessness through lawlessness?
Demonization of whole groups and populations as incoherently anti-you. This merely strengthens the hand of the few genuinely incoherently anti-you nutcases in their efforts to convince others that you are perhaps worth hating after all.
What works:
Stop behaving contemptibly. If you’re stealing people’s land and resources, if you’re violating international law, if you’re trampling on human rights, do please try to put a lid on all that, would you? The less contempt you invite, the smaller the pool of contempt from which seeds of violent reaction may emerge. And especially, do not defiantly continue said contemptible behavior on the lame excuse that acting otherwise would constitute capitulation to terrorists. All you would be capitulating to are law and decency.
Lose that tired old war model. Don’t flatter thugs by portraying them as world-historical warriors. Catch them and bring them to justice if at all possible, and for heaven’s sake don’t bulldoze their relatives’ homes. (We didn’t do that to Tim McVey’s relatives, did we?) Behaving lawfully increases your likelihood of garnering respect, even if grudging. And if lawful means are truly, truly out of reach, do take care not to incinerate whole neighborhoods or cities in the hopes of toasting a few thugs. And if you do harm innocents, admit so immediately and unambiguously — don’t list 6-year-olds as “militants.”
Stop talking gobbledegook — it rots your brain. Talk less about fighting terrorism and more about preventing terrorism. Take this test: Whenever you suspect you may be talking nonsense on this subject, swap in the word “murder” for “terrorism.” Can you fight murder? Can you wage a global war on murder? But you can prosecute murder, and — through vigilance and example — reduce its likelihood.
Rinse, repeat, and if you see something, say something.
A friend in the army was dispatched to Honduras to build an airstrip there at that time. Are you familiar with it? Many of the Freedom Fighters (for the US side) were poor bastards from Honduras. They received little to no training and were used to wreak havoc on Nicaraguan peasants with supposed loyalty to the Sandinistas.
Of course it explains all our bloody foreign policy failures although I must admit they spin the press quite well.
George W. Bush is a monster. And I am ashamed.
Me too. Copan and Santa Barbara, specifically. Do I know you?
This is very good did you come up with this?
Now, now kiddo, here is my shoulder to lean on, we are all ashamed of what those
bastard boys have done to our country for the last 40 or so years. It just makes me so dizzy to see what has happened in the last 7 years of self destructive behavior, all over the globe.Yeah, that is good.
Don’t you just love Copan. Gawd I wish I was there with my lady right now. Our plans are to retire to San Pedro Sula and teach. And we will spend our free time on Roatan. Diving. ;0)
I feel better now. ;0)
They keep coming back like a really bad case of shingles.
Exceptionally well-put!
This should be required reading for would-be Presidents.
Concise, to the point, and definitely the direction necessary for the possibility of the long-term survival of the human(?) species.
Why even Congress could manage to read it, between snoozes, cruises or boozes.
kiddo-three of the happiest years of my life were spent in Honduras. Although I worked in Copan and Santa Barbara teaching beekeeping, most of my free time was whiled away on the beaches of Tela. Hence, my outfit was known as “Cuerpo de Paseo.”
*g*
That shows extraordinsry leadership. I hope the MSM picks up on this. Did Musharraf speak with Clinton, Obama, Biden, Dodd, Richardson, Et al? If not, this demonstrates that Edwards is already viewed as a World leader. One strong reason why I will caucus for him next week.
I heard the line about bombing terrorists into existence on the radio years ago; don’t know who first said it. And the murder/terrorism test derives loosely from a line or two in column by Terry Jones in, IIRC, the Guardian . But the writing is me, yep.
Save this bit and repost it again later I think that you will have many reasons to post this again in the coming weeks.
Reckless cowboy antics have no place in these serious times.
Thanks, but don’t miss the superb commentary by Mary and others, backed up by real knowledge and stuff, happening right now over at emptywheel’s place.
I was watching Democracy Now today with Greg Palast’s interview of the President of Ecuador. Before that, in the news segment, she announced that we were sending many more troops to Pakistan, which I hadn’t heard before. Then, she broke into the interview with the news about Bhutto’s assasination.
Actually, isn’t Bush planning to be in Pakistan during his January Middle Eastern debacle? Good time for him to go, I say. Maybe they’ll keep him for us.
I can imagine him visiting a madrassa, getting twitchy and impatient waiting to see the mud-wrasslers.
One can always hope!
I heard the news, I am so sorry to see this bad news. My God!
Huh? Edwards has some link with the dictator of Pakistan, enough that Musharaff calls him when his country is going into conflagration? To my eyes that seems utterly bizarre. It’s a distinction that doesn’t suggest “leadership”, but rather one of “mutual thinking” that is worrisome.
For one thing Edwards isn’t even a sitting Senator.
And this is even more worrisome, especially if, as you suggest, Musharraf, DIDN’T call the other candidates.
Give it up. You are insinuating that John Edwards and Musharaff are like minded?? Now that is ridiculous and bizzare. Did Kucinich call Musharaff or speak with him? No, because he lacks leadership.
What qualifies this assassination as a terrorist attack? The assassin’s intent was to kill specific individual(s) not to terrorize through violence on random individuals.
Using such a broad net with the definition, any violent act can be labeled terrorism. So applied, John Wilkes Boothe and Lee Harvey Oswald were terrorists.
By the way, isn’t the term “assassin” derived from the name of the meanest-of-the-mean Arab tribe? This might be circular logic in a racist sort of way–