9/11 goulee got it covered

what a mess…

mbillions of dollars have been poured into Pakistan with no oversight from the Bush Administration as to how they have been spent.

Minor correction.

Bhutto had been taking a strong stand against extremists inside of Pakistan.

I am afraid this is a grim harbinger of the coming regional meltdown.

-G

boosh making a statement at 10 est via audio link from Crawford.

report is that Bush is expected to speak and “condemn the action”.

yeah, I feel better now.

Bhutto had been taking a strong stand against extremists inside of Pakistan.

The same guys he’s been in bed with. Whodathunkit?

so i guess we can put our platinum coated tin foil jumpsuits back on

correction: boosh at 11 est.

This spells serious trouble for Pakistan. Stability seems to have nearly disintegrated.

TPM reporting that this means US state department plans for Pakistan in shambles.(

Musharraf is military and represents the military. He is seen as an obstacle by the religious sorts, who I’m told tend to dominate the intelligence service, the ISI. Suicide missions are typically done by religious folks as opposed to the followers of military dictators. So, I’ll conjecture that this was not the work of Musharraf’s people, but rather of faction that would likely gain if and when the powder keg gets set off.

Ack…not Bhutto…MUSHY. Sorry. Need more coffee.

This happened at the same time as an attack on Musharraf’s other major rival for power, Nawaz al-Sharif (h/t Dakine01):

Also Thursday, a rooftop sniper opened fire on supporters of former prime minister Nawaz Sharif at a different pre-election rally in Rawalpindi, leaving four dead and at least five injured.

Hours before, Bhutto had asked Sharif to join hands with her to prevent poll-rigging in the upcoming election.

CSPAN 1 is running Bhutto’s speech from September now
runs about an hour

who can buck the BFEE?

things were already a mess from the benign neglect

i don’t think it was neglect, and i don’t think our involvement in pakistan was benign.

snipers……

That sounds like pretty good analysis.

There is also the question of competence of the security surrounding Bhutto.

-G

TPM reporting that this means US state department plans for Pakistan in shambles.

Given this Administration’s track record of State Department offerings and plans, that might not be such a bad thing.

Snipers are more the sort of thing I’d expect from the military, than say a suicide attack.

… so we wait to see how big a deal this one is — 9/11-Katrina, abu graibe –
how will the PPP react and respond?
who will they blame?
what now will musharraf do? put his uniform back on? cancel elections?
what about the elections?
chaos, coup, further terror in the streets, hoo boy;
will India make moves?
will the radical islamists?
can Bush/Rice screw it up even more? (didnt they con Bhutto into returning to meet her death?)

and is there an echo in these comments?
echo
echo
echo…

So the General benefits even more!

what caliber ammo was used to kill Bhutto???

selise — the way we treated oversight on the money was benign neglect — they deliberately looked the other way and just kept pouring money into the country. How we’ve acted militarily or otherwise is not benign, but it was deliberate inaction on our part…

MSNBC is going to have Zbig Brzezenski on momentarily.

The arc of instability just got a heck more unstable.

-G

does anyone believe a man so inept at everything he has done could do foreign affairs with competance?

pelosi has GOT to get this man OUT of office as SOON as possible, every SINGLE day this man makes ANY decision he destroys more of the world

Fill up your cars with gas folks cause unless this get settled quick and peaceful I’m guessing oil prices will go up, and if things turn bad way up.

Exactly. He’s probably just pissed off that the sniper didn’t get Sharif.

Don’t be surprised if India flings a nuke or two over the border, just because. (Of course, Pakistan can fling their own nukes right back.)

Barbara Starr, CNN, stoking the terror, terror, terror fires…

I meant to add: Cheney’s happy with this incident - more opportunities for his friends. Alas, State Department used to be notable for its professionalism. One more thing Bush has destroyed.

Lets not forget Darth the entire Bush administration has a very small track record of success.

Musharraf’s intelligence, to Bhutto: oops sorry, we were watching your reception, but unfortunately we missed that conspiracy to blow you up.

I was refering to the news article on snipers shooting from roofs at the supporters of the “other” Pakistani candidate’s rally.

Musharraf, too, has been targeted in the past — May 2006, for instance. There was also an attack last week aimed at the Interior Minster for Musharraf’s last government, that killed 50.

My take: There are various factions, all trying to stir the pot. It’s a huge mess — in a nation that owns nuclear weapons.

Gold and platinum WAY up now. That coupled with the bad XMas receipts and crashing home values looks pretty foreboding.

AP Photo of Bhutto from 1995, with visit from the Hillary and Chelsea Clinton:

Clintons and Bhutto

It would seem that the folks with the most to gain by the powder keg exploding would be the Talibanistas, especially those within the ISI.

Juan we turn our lonley eyes to you.

My take: There are various factions, all trying to stir the pot. It’s a huge mess — in a nation that owns nuclear weapons.

I agree…

It seems in the above clip, Bhutto had little faith in the Pakistani police to uncover the perpetrators and wanted international investigation.

Disagree - only in that I think for them and their ilk this has been a series of successes -their account balances are way up, they have reshaped the government away from viable function and they have pretty much stuffed any Demoratic opposition.

Call Larry Kudlow and tell him Goldilocks has Ebola virus.

-G

Buckle down kids, things are getting hinkier and hinkier.

AND THAT IS THE WAY WE fight back …MERKINS are gonna be starving and freezing this winter(high energy costs) dont even know where Pakistan is…DIPLOMACY can change the equation

Any MERKIN starving or freezing has only themselves to blame for squandering their share of the Bush tax cuts.

Right. Even with the dollar losing 40% of its value, we’re still better off because we’re paying less in taxes.

Thanks for those pictures Scarecrow.
How many time will the Chimp say war on terra in his press conference, I wonder?

MSNBC’s Jack Jacob’s was saying that India will start massing troops on the border.

Sounds like the perfect time for George W. Bush to arrive in the region and spread his reverse Midas magic.

-G

Sure by “account balances ” yes they made themselves rich, and yes they are good at bullying Democrats.
But governing, winning wars, the economy etc the Bushies have discredited every pro GOP idea there is. After Bush leaves they will need a new agenda, or they could learn to be content with the deep south.

For now we see through a glass, darkly.

FWIW, wrt a suicide attack, military or any other faction can easily blackmail someone into it to hide their involvement.

I bet she had private US linked security units protecting close up (Blackwater or one of their cousins). One of these guys did her in, and then was blown up so he wouldn’t live to tell the story. Why? Perhaps because it was clear she was not going to be able to mount a serious opposition, this and the other “incident” today provide the occasion for a new battle ground on terro. Or, perhaps, this is US payback to Musharaff in advance for something big such as turning over Osama (if he still lives) or his body.

Rawalpindi is awfully close to Kashmir, too. An assasination attempt — let alone one that succeeds — isn’t unexpected in Pakistan given their history, but two on the same day in an area that is fairly controlled by military interests…that close to the very heated areas disputed by Pakistan and India? What a freaking mess.

BBC has an updated article, btw…

Musharraf is military and represents the military. He is seen as an obstacle by the religious sorts, who I’m told tend to dominate the intelligence service, the ISI. Suicide missions are typically done by religious folks as opposed to the followers of military dictators. So, I’ll conjecture that this was not the work of Musharraf’s people, but rather of faction that would likely gain if and when the powder keg gets set off.

Clarification maybe: Suicide missions are a result of asymmetric application of power. Power in Pakistan is held by the military (under Musharrif). There are multitudinous groups that fall under asymmetric power auspice, laying this at any specific doorstep at this time is premature. A reminder, Musharrif’s coup was to put an end to internecine political warfare between Bhutto’s political dynasty and other political dynasties in Pakistan. Political power has a price, ask Nicolai and Elana Ceausescu.

bootstraps!!!

Vichy Dems refuse to point out that Bush has destabilized the entire region.

they are in league evidently

Yes ChimpCo can’t contain its foreign policy to one country. Everywhere they meddle, they screw with the neighborhood, Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, India . . .

Cant help but think of how Reagan kept Imelda from murdering Acquino … Cheney not so much

didn’t we just send troops into Pakistan yesterday?

if only the media would stop throwing PETRO on the fire!!!!

Don’t forget Holy Joe spent his summer trying to push a nuke deal with India.

he did? kewl!

they deliberately looked the other way and just kept pouring money into the country. How we’ve acted militarily or otherwise is not benign, but it was deliberate inaction on our part…

exactly - it was deliberate, hence my confusion with the term “benign neglect.”

i thought it might be a pay off for cheney’s plans in balochistan, but that’s just guessing.

suicide missions (genuine ones vs blackops) are typically part of a strategic campaign against democratic occupiers. at least according to pape’s research.

didn’t we just send troops into Pakistan yesterday?

Is this what u mean…

While I hold no great affection for Musharraff, I find it unlikely that he’d want to cause such destabilization in his own country.

The more unstable the more likely he’ll end up like the Shah or Ceaucescu or Saddam.

-G

On governing: Depends what you mean. For them this is part of the strategy, and it has worked in their distorted way. I don’t see anyone in the streets opposing, do you? But I think the tides are turning, even “luxury goods” didn’t bring the receipts up this xmas (and that was after intentionally excluding jewelry from the equation). Clearly the housing downturn is beginning to impact the Republican luxury base as well.

I’m with you. There are too many factions in whose interest it might be to make a guess at this point.

But then again, who knows.

-G

I have to say, if I had to put money on it at this point, that I’d be looking at the intel services in Pakistan very closely. They have had a history of ties to extremist religious groups in the country, including the al qaeda-backed and Taliban-linked crowd. But given how volatile things have been there for YEARS, nothing is going to be clear on this for quite a while…if ever.

Sandy Berger on MSNBC sounded partularly moronic. Terrorist could get the nukes. Terrorists could get the nukes. From what I’ve read, that’s a low probabability event & I can’t see the purpose in hyping it.

press release from lantos:

Chairman Lantos Says Cowardly Killing of Benazir Bhutto Should Prompt
U.S. To Renew Commitment to Pakistan’s People

Washington, DC — U.S. Congressman Tom Lantos, chairman of the House
Foreign Affairs Committee, has issued the following statement on the
death of former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto:

“Today, the world has witnessed a tragedy in Pakistan. This was a
cowardly attack by extremist elements. Madam Bhutto was a stalwart of
moderation, a force for democratic values, and a personal friend. I
express my sincere condolences to her family, to her many friends, and
to the people of Pakistan for the loss of one of their daughters.

“This atrocious attack should compel the United States to renew our
commitment to the people of Pakistan and to the voices of moderation.
Although one of those voices has been prematurely silenced today, it is
up to all of us to make sure that those who have perpetrated this
hideous act are brought to justice, and that those who continue to spew
the venomous, hate-filled rhetoric of extremism are vanquished.”

Lantos, who is also the founding co-chairman of the Congressional Human
Rights Caucus, has known Bhutto for many years. They met again in his
office a few weeks ago during her last visit to Washington before her
return to Pakistan.

Well, who wil the citizens of the world blame for this incident? Bhutto may have been corrupt, but people will forget that and remember her as the leader of the “opposition” IMHO.

P.M. Carpenter: We’re Drowning Ourselves in a Surreal Reality; Meanwhile, over the span of fiscal year 2008 the Bush administration is “requesting” — I like that; you know, like Tony Soprano would request — “$189.3 billion for Defense Department operations in Iraq, Afghanistan and worldwide counterterrorism activities.” This amount, whose appropriation we cautiously anticipate on a bed of pins and needles, happens to be the payoff for our splendiferous success in Iraq. Which is to say, it is “20 percent higher than for fiscal 2007 and 60 percent higher than for fiscal 2006.”….follow the money….endless war endless terror!! ENDLESS PROFITS

I would say the CLEARLY, Musharaff has the most to gain from having both of his political rivals taken out. Why are you so emphatic that it was Islamo Terrorists that have done this? A sniper with a rifle? Come on, that is pure military. Musharaff wil re-instate Marshall law, take over the military again and be an indefinite dictator. All while the US turns a blind eye and continues to give him money.

twolf1 and Old Coastie: I had missed that. That IS a big deal, and perhaps was enough of an incentive (pay off) to have US blackops carry this off today. Having Pakistan agree to have US troops in their country is major considering how much this whole issue is likely in inflame popular opposition to Musharraf. Now, there are no real opposition candidates. Can you imagine the US allowing foreign troops into this country to oversee things, much less Islamic ones. Basically this is what seems to have happened here. Clearly the transfer of nuclear war heads to the miliary in Pakistan is part of this larger business as well.

nothing is going to be clear on this for quite a while…

Yep. And Al-Qaeda benefits, since they’ve been trying to destabilize the country for years… Also, PSI has been playing both sides for quite some time. The US has no choice but to back Musharraf at this point. Ironically, he is the only one who can be a stabilizing force. And that is saying a lot.

snark

This makes Pakistan the new front in the War on Terror. George Boosh can move all our forces out of Iraq into Pakistan.

/snark.

snark - not so snark. He will be obligated to add many more troops here, since both the National Guard and the regular forces are now “broken” he will have little choice but to step up privateers (Blackwater) to the benefit of the Rethuglican party.

I’m not emphatic about anything on this matter; I’m merely indulging in idle speculation and provoking conversation.

The sniper attack was more in line with what I’d tend to expect from Musharraf’s folks, while the suicide attack was more what I’d expect from zealots. But of course any faction is capable of any kind of attack. And any random hidden shooter can be called a “sniper”. Military snipers, however, are very deadly: “One shot, one kill, no exceptions.”

Now, there are no real opposition candidates.

what about nawaz sharif?

Steve Clemons has this note

A commentator close to Bhutto just told me that Pakistan will not disintegrate because of this incident — as the military excels in “situations where preventing a meltdown is required.”

The Washington Note

Somehow this reminds me. I don’t know why. I had the misfortune to watch some History channel type program on Congressman Charlie Wilson (another hot tub lover) and his support of the “brave mujahedeen” . There were people lauding his career, sobbing over his misfortunes and remembering fondly how they all hated Soviets. In fact it sometimes seemed the only thing they had in common was they wanted to “kill Soviets.” I guess now this is brought to us by Hollywood via NPR. NPR bills it as a “dark comedy” starring Tom Hanks. Sounds like a hoot (/snark). Especially after this assassination.

Durable goods orders down…….

mui — Have you read the book on which the movie is based? It’s an excellent read, with lots of snarky bits which highlight both the danger and the idiocy involved in the decisions as they come down the road for him. I’m hoping the movie pulls in a lot of that as well, because it is quite instructive of how we have made policy decisions in the past on a rather haphazard, non-fact-based but rather personality driven basis far too often. And the long-term consequences be damned.

No idea whether that’s the message that comes out in the movie, haven’t seen it — but the flaws and warts were there in the book all the way through.

Yes, but the attack there earlier, and Bhutto’s death will certainly put a damper on things, to say nothing of the military clamp down that is sure to follow these events.

Also the suicide bomber may have been unwilling wasn’t it the Basques? who would strap bombs onto people to get them to do what they wanted?
Like shoot Bhutto perhaps after which the Army, Al Queida, or whomever could detonate the bomb to remove the evidence/shooter.

Also, Giuliani benefits, since Pakistan has been unstable especially after 9-11. It was unstable before then, but Al-Qaeda and Taliban’s presence there came from the remnants of 9-11 and their subsequent (and temporary, as it were) routing from Afghanistan.

Romney blaming this on jihadis…

Romney blaming this on jihadis…

he said something like this (not direct quote) - “this points out the problem of global islamic jihadism - we dont know who is responsible blah blah blah”

dodd on msnbc via phone now…

I haven’t read the book, but I feel that it is very rare for films to handle gray spots with sensitivity. I see foreign and indie films as having more success with that.

Dodd sounding intelligent…

the Mittster, not so much…

what about nawaz sharif?

Nawaz Sharif is not as formidable an opposition figure as Benazir was. Plus he was even more corrupt than Benazir, and also more of a fundamentalist Muslim. Benazir was somewhat secular and more Western. Grad school at Harvard and Oxford. That’s why the US was pinning its hopes on her…

As I understand the history of the area, the Taliban got their start in as the madrassas in Pakistan. (Disclaimer: my understanding here comes from conversations with friends from that part of the world, mostly Indians.)

And the world just got a little scarier today with this news. This whole scenario looks like the first chapter of a Tom Clsncy war novel.

Tom Clancy

Haaretz bandies about some suspects.

-G

Mitt has more credibility problems than Rudy I think having those two clowns pandering for votes by blaming Democrats is only going to help us. Like Bush their support on an issue probably will cause more people to turn against that issue than support it.
If it isn’t happening already.

Anything heard from the Holy Huckster yet?

DOW is down over a 100 points Bush’s speech better be good.

I’ve got novels on the brain as well. It seems, so prosaic in a way, even though the tragedy is real.

I want Juan Cole’s take on this.

DOW is down over a 100 points Bush’s speech better be good.

Bush will undoubtedly put the ass back in assassination.

can’t find it yet
nothing about it on Informed Comment yet

Yep. You’re right there: Here:

The Taliban movement was headed by Mullah Mohammed Omar. Beneath Mulla Omar were “a mixture of former small-unit military commanders and Madrasah teachers”[4] and then a rank and file most of whom had studied in Islamic religious schools in Pakistan.

I’ll read the book though.

Romney blaming this on jihadis…

he said something like this (not direct quote) - “this points out the problem of global islamic jihadism - we dont know who is responsible blah blah blah”

that just shows how pointy his head is.

Has anyone explored the theory that the first attempt on Bhutto was a warning by Musharraf, the second the real thing? Cui bono?

Bhutto Adviser: Musharraf Is To Blame
By Spencer Ackerman - December 27, 2007, 10:32AM
A longtime adviser and close friend of assassinated Pakistani ex-prime minister Benazir Bhutto places blame for Bhutto’s death squarely on the shoulders of U.S.-supported dictator Pervez Musharraf.

Thanks I just checked myself. I trust Juan a lot more than I do Bush or any talking head on this story.

Rather than recommend the NYTimes as a source it would be wiser to recommend the Guardian. The NYT is suspect.

Haven’t seen it yet but Aaron Sorkin wrote the script. Usually he is a master at getting to the nub of intricate issues in a digestible way. Hoping to see it this weekend when Scarecrow comes for a visit.

that just shows how pointy his head is.

He must have a faulty logic board, or he is running Vista ME (Mormon Edition).

It’ll go something like this:

The world’s a dangerous place…al-Qaida! al-Qaida! al-Qaida!
You’re fighting them there so you don’t have to fight them here.
Better cut taxes on the wealthy some more.

This whole scenario looks like the first chapter of a Tom Clsncy war novel.

In fact, it remind me of the assassination of Ahmed Shah Massoud, the Lion of the Panjir Valley, by Al Qaeda agents on September 9, 2001, just two days prior to 9/11.

Hamid Mir, CNN person in Pak, sez everyone there is blaming it on Musharraf, not on AQ.

To those, I would add several hundred thousand foam mouthed fanatics of all stripes and pursuasions. The only unlikely suspect is a loner middle-aged white male.

“re-instate Marshall law,”

It’s Martial law — and it means government by the use of the military to keep the peace.

Stephen Cohen (of Princeton, I believe) is the only American expert on Pakistan. The history and politics of Pakistan are extremely complex, and you need a Blackberry (at least) to unpack it. Of course the UK, in the best of its Arabist tradition–think D.H. Lawrence–is full of Pakistani experts.

Yep Bhutto’s supporters will certainly blame the General now civil war is likely but will Al Quieda make it a 3 way fight or will they pick a side?