Hell hath no fury like Mr. Clinton's most prominent anonymous detractor scorned. Our buddy Joe and the ghost of Teddy Roosevelt holding his nose take a satirical (not that it's labelled that way) whack at a few folks who had the temerity to annoy him in the year end issue of Time (in print, where the stuff he doesn't want factchecked goes).
Among the folks he celebrates for political courage: Sen. McCain, who briefly stopped pandering to say that he thinks torture is bad (although we should let the fruits of it be used in court); Sen. Clinton, for having a healthcare plan (which might remind folks the last one, which was a Great Big Legendary Disaster); Sen's Biden and Obama, for having the wisdom to run against their party's base, even if they were too tentative about it; and all the Democratic candidates, who want to raise your taxes by bagging the Bush tax cuts (apparently only people who make a great deal of money read Time).
Then there's Mr. Huckabee.
Mike Huckabee gets an honorable mention for standing by his position in favor of scholarships to public colleges for illegal immigrants who do well in high school. "We never should grind our heel in the face of a child" is a sentiment that should go without saying, but needed to be said to his Republican colleagues.
Um.
Wasn't there some stuff in Time Magazine's blogs about that?
Governor, in the YouTube debate a few weeks back you had exchange with Mitt Romney over your support for a bill that allowed illegal immigrants in the Arkansas school system to become eligible for in-state tuition breaks. You rebuffed Governor Romney's attack with a simple, powerful message by saying, "In all due respect, we are a better country than to punish children for what their parents did. We're a better country than that."
Less than two weeks later, you unveiled an immigration plan that would require "all illegal immigrants a 120-day window to register with the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services and leave the country. Those who register and return to their home country will face no penalty if they later apply to immigrate or visit; those who do not return home will be, when caught, barred from future reentry for a period of 10 years."
Would your plan require that all school age children who are here illegally be taken out of schools all across the country and forcibly deported, and wouldn't that, in fact, be punishing those children for something their parents did? If so, haven't you proposed a plan that is beneath the America you so eloquently defended just a few weeks ago?
well, maybe the Governor didn't realize the implications of
Under my Secure America plan, immigrants and their families here illegally would have to return to their home countries.
"Because we are talking about a policy that has profound implications for people's lives, I suspect that some people will attempt to use these hard cases to discredit the idea that anything can be done about the problem of illegal immigration. But we have unfortunately reached a crisis point where doing nothing is no longer an option. The policy of de facto amnesty has been a failure which is why we must focus on enforcement and attrition.
Well, Joe Klein's a busy man. He doesn't have time to follow blogs. Although apparently he has heard that Huckabee got the not-terribly-immigrant-friendly Minuteman organization to endorse him...
Gosh. Why would Joe Klein be giving Huckabee credit for being a much nicer guy than he really is in Time Magazine?
Well, he seems to feel as if Huckabee's best shot is the South Carolina primary, and as Ms. Cox points out in her Time Magazine blog, immigration is a big issue in South Carolina. As a matter of fact, Mr. Klein himself says it's a huge issue with Republican primary voters in general (also in a Time Magazine blogpost)
I attended Frank Luntz's dial group of 30 undecided--or sort of undecided--Republicans in St. Petersburg, Florida, last night...and it was a fairly astonishing evening.
Now, for the uninitiated: dials are little hand-held machines that enable a focus group member to register instantaneous approval or disapproval as the watch a candidate on TV. There are limitations to the technology: all a candidate has to do is mention, say, Abraham Lincoln and the dials go off into the stratosphere. Film of soaring eagles will have the same effect. But the technology does have its uses.
...
In the next segment--the debate between Romney and Mike Huckabee over Huckabee's college scholarships for the deserving children of illegal immigrants--I noticed something really distressing: When Huckabee said, "After all, these are children of God," the dials plummeted. And that happened time and again through the evening: Any time any candidate proposed doing anything nice for anyone poor, the dials plummeted (30s). These Republicans were hard.
But there was worse to come: When John McCain started talking about torture--specifically, about waterboarding--the dials plummeted again. Lower even than for the illegal Children of God.
Isn't that sweet? Joe Klein used his valuable Time Magazine real estate to "congratulate" Mike Huckabee (and John McCain) for bravery in sticking with candidacy-killing positions they've already abandoned.
I'm sure no-one'll get confused. Huckabee voters are, I've heard, a sophisticated group.
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Welcome Julia. Happy Sunday
I guess this is the reason he’s also known as Joke Line?
Hey there. Happy Sunday to you too.
It’s so much easier to enjoy it if Monday isn’t leering at me from across the threshhold…
Yes ma’am.
Hi, Julia!
Hey there.
More like profiles in dismal hypocrisy. I think Joe has some old Daddy issues.
Thinkprogress is also on Huckster’s case.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/.....migration/
He’s an odd duck.
You know that moment when you’re growing up and leaving for college or a new job or the service and you realize that nobody knows about your humiliations and dissatisfactions and you can leave them behind and move on with your life?
I think that happened too late for Joe Klein (and for that matter Sen. Lieberman).
Joe Klein is an embarrassing irrelevancy. He does prove, however, that to become a pundit neither intelligence nor research skills are required.
Why do the media hire such people? Because they want people who act like they have insight but who, in fact, compliantly repeat the Conventional Wisdom which is whatever their employers tell them it is.
Now that we have all hailed Julia, let’s get serious. Will the Campaigns ask for corrections the way we did about FISA? Will the wingnut bloggers go nuts? Will incorrectly reporting a Republican position cost Klein his job when out-and-out lying about a Democratic position did not? Will Time refuse to print McCain’s and Huckabee’s responses?
In short, with the tables turned, does Klein get to keep his job?
The corporate owners of the mainstream media need fake “liberals” like Klein for two main reasons: (1) to keep moving the center inexorably to the right; and (2) to provide fodder for avowedly right-wing media outlets to propagate “even liberals think ” memes.
Will the Campaigns ask for corrections the way we did about FISA? Possibly but doubtful (unless they can get “Liberal media lies again” mileage out of it)
Will the wingnut bloggers go nuts? No (they’re already nuts)
Will incorrectly reporting a Republican position cost Klein his job when out-and-out lying about a Democratic position did not? No
Will Time refuse to print McCain’s and Huckabee’s responses? Yes
In short, with the tables turned, does Klein get to keep his job? Yes
will the wingnut bloggers rise up because Time Magazine screwed over McCain and Huckabee?
Frank Luntz, let’s go to the dials on that one…
Joe Klein, a profile in irrelevence.
-G
And the fact that many of these fake “liberals” can’t actually get anything factually correct does not impair their utility. After all, it is only some crackpot extreme bloggers who even parse the factual content of their excretions.
Can bad reality shows be that far off in the distance for the likes of Joe Klein and Kate O’Bierne?
Maybe, Last Hack Standing?
-G
You silver-tongued devil, you ;)
You’re our kind of crackpot extreme blogger.
I don’t think they repeat talking points as much as are already brainwashed to see the world the same way as the corporate paymasters do. See, that way, they can say, hey… we didn’t tell them to write that… or.. nobody told me to write that.
It’s how idiots like Hannity get where they are. They know all the mind set of the right and just spew it forth. And it makes the bosses feel, hey we are right see… these “independent” pundits see it like we do… here’s raise JokeLine.. good job old boy.. not bad for a jew too.
Sunday nite angst?
ayup. Work has been a bit of a bear this past year.
It is time to refute the assertion that LIEberman or Klein are ‘Democrats’ or ‘libberals’ or ‘progressive’ or anything other than Vichy enablers.
Neither has an ounce of crediblity outside of a ’small circle of friends’.
Huckabee upset Catholics by speaking (preaching for a handsome fee no doubt) at Hagees Church of Lieberman and Armageddon in TX today.
Huck-A-Hagee link here.
We’ve been doing that for quite some time now. I think what you meant to say is, “It’s time for other people to start listening to the people who have been refuting the assertion–with ample documentary support–that Lieberman, Klein, and others of their ilk are ‘liberals’ of any kind”.
All I can say is, you wouldn’t expect this type of behavior from Christians. Especially Christians of the Bible thumping kind! What happened to do unto others?
“Huckabee voters are, I’ve heard, a sophisticated group.” ~ Julia
Huh? Wha? Oh wait. I get it. It’s snark at it’s finest! *screaming laughter* Whew.
((((((Julia)))))
That’s the Golden Rule which probably predates all religion and is, IMO, just about all the ethical guidance anyone needs.
I like: mind your own business.
Why, Joke Line, could this be construed as an epiphany…? ;-)
Hi all.
Go Vikes.
Much love to all of you!
Balrog.
One of the reasons I have disliked Rs, going all the way back to my childhood, is that they are mean. And they have gotten a lot meaner over time. Even when I listen to wingnut think tank programs on C-SPAN, there’s a hard edge, a lecturing, a condemning demeanor of people who don’t think like them.
We should always grind our heels in the face of Joe Klein.
charity begins at home…some say.
Meanness is the entire substantive content of their political, social, and economic “philosophy”.
“I got; you don’t; hah, hah; fuck you.”
I swear it’s de ja vu, all over again…
http://www.stltoday.com/stltod.....enDocument
(waving to eCahn).
What happened to “generosity of spirit”?
I grew up in a very conservative household, self reliance and independence were key. No gimmes. Sounds good until one realizes that this viewpoint comes from a profound sense of insecurity and perceives the entire world as competition for the same resources. women, children, old people, sick people, etc are drains on resources. really really selfish viewpoint and not community spirited at all.
Say what you will about Catholics, but they are the ones who taught me stuff about social responsibility and community later in life.
fwiw, I don’t agree with all of their positions, but you have to give the seamless garment folks props for consistency - they at least believe that wanting to control great swaths of other peoples’ lives means you have to care about, say, their getting a fair wage or their children eating regularly.
*waving back*
My parents weren’t quite as conservative as yours, but similar. They were married in 1932, which tells you a lot, and both came from exceeding poor families, so they were substantially upwardly mobile. Although every penny counted, we were solidly middle class. I acquired the work ethic from them, but I did experience them as mean, which is probably why I’m hypersensitive to it.
BTW, my parents were square dancers, and I note that your screen name comes from square dancing. Is that a hobby of yours?
what are the odds.
And this is particulary important when you remember how the ACORN people allocated all the working voting machines into Republican-leaning districts in swing states…
Well you are right, my screen name has to do with squaredancing. I picked it rather impulsively when logging on the first time to FDL to describe what I thought of the community’s least favorite ex-Dem, hojo. do si do meaning crossing the aisle, then whoops, back again, then…
I don’t squaredance. I’m of very tall Germanic stock and was always paired with the little Jewish boy in my class. My PE teacher had a twisted sense of humor. Every. Time.
Ironic that “mean” can also infer “tight with money” as well as hostility. hmm.
Just such a mean person on C-SPAN2 right now. Donald Critchlow, The conservative Ascendancy. Favorite quote so far:
Then he goes on to explain why it was necessary to increase the size of govt to defeat communism, after which they could decrease govt. Yep. It’s all clear to me now. /snark
Actually, Julia, you’re mis-firing, I was referring to the DoJ’s FEC partisan pursuit of suppressing the Black vote. Take a gander at ACORN…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACORN
Exceedingly clever. I missed that part altogether. Glad I asked.
Re: PE teachers. My father was mine for the second semester of 8th grade. Did not enhance family harmony.
Good point about the several meanings of mean.
Oh, I mean, absolutely. The bureaucracy and organizational weight of Rome is crushing…I’m really talking about learning from the active charities, their expectations that parishioners take care of the less fortunate etc. The amount of guilt thrown on that varies from parish to parish, but the messages are way different than what I grew up with…
don’t worry, I always comment on whatever the pope/priests broadcast if I don’t agree with it. EG abortion, I immediately turn to my teen girls and say “complicated issue, you must make up your own mind about how you feel about this.”
I’m going a lot more “new agey” with the spirituality anyway. Religion is a distribution method.
Thanks. I was confused by Julia’s response.
Yeah, I know.
I’m sorry, I haven’t been here long enough for folks to know when I’m being snarky.
What I meant was, funny they’re prosecuting a progressive GOTV drive when the election, er, irregularities were so rife on the other side.
Julia- snark alerts please.
there is those who would say “when my lips are moving”
All the same, I’ll try to remember to /snark in future.
Sorry, I’ll tweak my snark antennae… ;-)
My personal policy is “all snark; all the time”. That way I don’t need to worry about tags.
My jaw is still on the ground. Dad? PE? 8th grade?
Oh. my. (silent scream).
Hopefully pain plus time equals humor?
guess he hadn’t heard the story of David and Goliath?
Although searching history to see when the govt abomination ends and how it ends is a good idea. I can only see bloodshed in the anecdotes I’m finding.
I had a comment removed from wnyc Brian Lehrer site because they didn’t know it was a snark. I said that there was a typo in the title of Newt’s book, when he was a guest during his book tour. I said the title should be Contract ON the Earth. Editor doubled checked, found there was no typo & removed my comment. Discovered that it was gone later on, asked why, got the explanation. Since tone of voice often doesn’t come thru, I decided it was better to specify the emotional content.
Hey Ecah,
Can you tell me where the ruble stands in relation to the dollar?
-G(SD)
An additional detail from KMOX.
The charges are against 8 individuals, not ACORN itself.
http://www.kmox.com/Eight-ACOR.....d/1375286.
Anyone know which USA brought the charges, and what connection if any to the charges against ACORN workers in Kansas City in 11/2006 which was the work of Bradley Schlozman? And why now, over one year later?
Somehow, that name sorta seems to fit a republic. *g*
Apologies to any pups who might share it…
Krugman had an excellent post yesterday…
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/
Was just commiserating with your PE experience. Misery luvs company. Way too complicated emotionally to do short version but yes, now some 50 years later, I can get out a wry smile about it.
No but I’ll try to find it.
I actually figured out there was going to be a Russian crisis 3 months in advance. It was the only time I’ve visited Russia in June 98. Everything was very expensive and I was upper middle class. Knew the currency was way overvalued. Crash came in September (or October?) of that year.
$1=24.746 rubles
http://finance.yahoo.com/curre.....it=Convert
that’s a nice way of looking at it…
The upper crust is getting crustier.
-G
yikes.
The only thing that makes the memory of gym less than completely unpleasant for me is the day the wannabe marine drill sergeant gym teacher had to fill in for my hygiene teacher.
The subject of the day was contraception.
He got four sentences out, stammering. The fourth was “read until the bell”
OT: I wonder if, when, FOX News goes outta business if Comedy Central could buy Bill O’Reilly and add in laugh tracks?
Have the Wall Street Journal folks figured out if Murdoch is going to use his Fox Business Channel magic and totally decimate their name?
-G
Speaking of Republican parents, my parents were married in 1928, from poor families in Oklahoma. They were verry thrifty.
I was born in the 1950s, so I didn’t experience a lot of what they went through. My dad was pro-FDR, my mom was not.
But she was very socialistic in her outlook. She talked about what a rich country this was and why couldn’t we all have a portion of money allotted to us? Early deprivation and hunger left its mark.
She was against the prying of social workers when food stamps and welfare first came about; thought it would break up families.
She said that early Christians lived in communes, and shared all their work and belongings.
Of course, this was after the McCarthy hearings; I think some of my parents’ friends were blacklisted, so that might have made a difference.
I was just brainstorming with my little self on what clever way stewart and colbert are going to deal with going back on air.
I thought perhaps they could filibuster like Dodd. Read Hugh’s list, read the proposal from the wga, etc. with on screen graphics “insert joke here” with arrows and stuff.
Maybe book the writers to come on the show as a guest not as a writer…
Broder tells us today:
“Among members of Congress, the lobbying shops on K Street and the local GOP committees in Iowa and New Hampshire, Republicans are divided, confused and sometimes demoralized about their choices for president.”
I’m demoralized about my party’s (Dems) so called front-runners too. Obama and HRC are going toe to toe of late. On non-issues.
ha ha, good idea!
At least the Bancrofts’ got their’s… ;-)
Excellent! I think you should email both Colbert and Stewart.
I know I’m not rich when I hear stories about stay at home moms with three nannies who complain that “dad doesn’t help”. Or that the petsitter has to take the family toad to a toad specialist forty miles away because it hasn’t been getting any attention from said toad doting family. Or when Poopsie invites her entire tenth grade class to Vail (we’re in CA) for her sweet sixteen.
I mean, I just don’t live in that world. I know a lot of people who want to, and think they do, but they don’t.
Good for your parents who saw that everybody can’t do the own-bootstrap thing.
Re my father as my gym teacher 2d semester 8th grade. I was already teachers’ pet because I was smart & worked hard, and now I was a teacher’s daughter too. I won a few of the medals at 8th grade graduation (no intermediate schools in my day:K-8, then HS), and they doubled and triple checked all my exams and other qualifications to avoid the charge of nepotism. I was also athletic, because the upside of have a PE father is that he was my coach.
OK, thanks you guys! I’ll try to find a workable email address. BRB.
On Wes Clark:
Thanks for your service General, and for coming around to being a Democrat. Maybe you’ll find a post as Homeland Security Secretary or Defense Secretary in the next Dem administration. I hope you get more chances to serve America.
On home mortgages:
“…people who are foreclosed on can wind up paying taxes on what they would have owed in payments, but something the government views as a “windfall.” Thus the amount which they’ll never have to pay to the mortgage company, the government views as “income.” “
This is the kind of thing which should spur legislative change and which we could never expect a Republican to help. Elect a Progressive and we might see people protected from idiotic catch-22s like this.
Last night I went to a large family pre-Christmas dinner. About half Republican and the other half Demos and indies. And as usual, the talk turned to politics. In this huge Oklahoma family the concensus seemed to be we all had this one political view in common. None of us liked the front runners from either party.
DING! They are all so tiresome & predictible.
It’s funny about that - I’ve been (as a guest) in a place on the fringes of that world a few times, and no-one ever exhales.
I don’t think it’s necessary to be a jerk to have money - if you come by it honest, it can take an awful lot of hard work to have money - but boy, not having to care what people think of you certainly does bring out the callous jerk in a lot of people.
Barney Franks and OBey, sought realistic legislation, but, Nancy and Steny, scuttled it…
maybe better fodder for [adult swim]
Barack Obama was just shilling his ‘I don’t want to pit redstate America vs. bluestate America’ shtick in a tv spot.
Hoofah.
-G
Joe Klein used his valuable Time Magazine real estate to “congratulate” Mike Huckabee (and John McCain) for bravery in sticking with candidacy-killing positions they’ve already abandoned.
I see what you’re saying about Huckabee, but has McCain abandoned his position on torture in general and/or waterboarding in particular?
My lady informed me this morning that at this point she cannot vote for Obama or HRC. If either of these are the nominee, she will do a write in. Now she is working to get a consensus on this issue in this house.
Sullivan knocks one out of the park today.
The torture tape fingering Bush as a war criminal
Julia, sorry that was in response to Kiddo’s comments about the frontrunners.
-G
Mr. Klein is striving to become as relevant as are the two political parties.
He was against before he was for it before he was against it.
IOW, he lost his anti-torture credibility when he voted for I believe it was the Military Commissions Act. No matter how much he may proclaim himself anti-torture, by acquiescing to that execrable piece of garbage, he showed his true colors.
Hey kiddo! I’ve become a devoted John Edwards fan and Mrs. Edwards as well FWIW. Clung to the hope Al Gore might run as long as possible (and invite Edwards on his ticket. What do you and Lahoma think of the Edwards?
It has become increasingly obvious what this nation needs. President HRC. Veep Obama. And the ‘real’ prez., Bill Clinton. What a dandy solution.
Well, yeah. He asked the Democrats to trust him and then caved on anti-torture legislation, so I’d say he’s pretty much abandoned the ship in favor of the president he does seem to be determined to support.
Ralph Nader…? *g*
We like Mr. Edwards very much. We also like Sen. Dodd. ;0)
Wow. That is a very succinct and logical takedown.
Gonna forward that to some GOoPer pals.
-G
No. I think I get your point, though. ;0)
I’ve heard Obama has been teeing-off on Edwards over 527s (you know, like the Swiftboaters for an issue).
Barack says Edwards has been using them despite saying he doesn’t want them.
It sounds to me like Obama approves of every single policy Edwards has promoted and can’t think of a thing to say about them.
But, mostly it sounds like the same kind of vacuous negativity we’ve heard from a lot of politicians over the years. Where’s the change Barack? Got change?
Obama offers “change you can believe in”, but promotes himself with a 527 and PACs of his own.
Edwards is just offering big bold solutions to America’s growing list (under Bush) of problems.
Edwards for President — Uplifting Leadership
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t.....087293.ece
THE CIA chief who ordered the destruction of secret videotapes recording the harsh interrogation of two top Al-Qaeda suspects has indicated he may seek immunity from prosecution in exchange for testifying before the House intelligence committee.
Jose Rodriguez, former head of the CIA’s clandestine service, is determined not to become the fall guy in the controversy over the CIA’s use of torture, according to intelligence sources.
.
.
wonder if anyone seen this ? merry chrismes and to all a good nite
Edwards is the only ‘viable’ candidate I like, considering the fact DK and Dodd are dark horses, and, Gore and Nader have bowed out…
Thanks bigBob - had not seen this. Let us pray Jose Rodriquez has the wit to survive to tell his tale.
Sheesh, that is one hell of a headline!
thanks for the link.
Hey, folks.
Not chasing anybody off, but I have strutted my two hours on the stage and the next post is up.
Me personally, I plan to move on to making a fat-free, lactose-free, alcohol-free and caffeine-free dietarily-restricted tiramisu for christmas dinner at mom’s (which is not nearly as easy as it sounds).
Have a good week.
Have a great Christmas.
Yeah, I should follow up with the fact that out here near Silicon Valley there were several people who retired early on their new megawealth and do incredible things to benefit the community.
But it is also extremely perspective-warping to grow up in FDR/Rockefeller style wealth. The messages have to be there to keep your head on straight. Check your library for a book called Golden Ghetto for examples of emotional damage. One Christmas story, the kids come downstairs on the big day to find a check on a silver tray. No presents, no gathering, nothing. The parents went off to be with their friends at their gatherings, abandoning their kids to the servants. that gets my sympathy. No check can replace a hug. every kid needs that.
sorry for the o/t
Merry Christmas Julia. thanks for the great post.