(Please welcome General Wesley Clark, A Time to Lead: For Duty, Honor and Country author of in the comments -- jh)
And they did. They really did. They stood up, men from South Texas and the Bronx and Kansas and California, in a firefight in a jungle in Southeast Asia. Men who had been plucked out of their lives, threatened with jail if they refused, some who held master's degrees, others who hadn't finished the tenth grade, they were firing from the hip and the shoulder, a dozen men, moving into the jungle to sweep what turned out to be a small enemy base camp. This was my company. These were my men. And I was still flat on my face, struggling to keep the medic off of me so I could direct the fighting.
Wes Clark's memoir, A Time to Lead: For Duty, Honor, and Country, is an extremely readable book that wrestles honestly with deep themes about politics, international strategy, and the nature of leadership. It's the story of General Wes Clark, an irrepressibly optimistic man who believes in leadership, the U.S. Army, and the ability of energetic groups of people with integrity to get things done. Clark's love is the army and the people in it, and he wrote this book because he believes that America is not having the honest dialogue necessary about our place in the world. By intellectual training and professional background, Clark is a strategist who has sat at the intersection of the military, diplomacy and policy-making since his time at Vietnam. Right now, the army is bearing the brunt of our national choices, while the country at large gives up "very little", which is illustrative of the larger problem America faces when we do not make hard choices or exercise the extraordinary leadership we are so capable of. The story he tells of his life is meant to illustrate how to make these hard choices, and how to lead.
Clark grew up poor in Little Rock, Arkansas, as his father died of a heart attack when he was four, forcing his mother to move back to Little Rock to live with her parents as a working single mother. She eventually remarried to a somewhat emotionally unbalanced man, who became his new father. Much of his early life is exactly what you'd expect of a boy growing up in Little Rock at that time; Clark saw prejudice in its most raw form, in the fight between Governor Orval Faubus and the Federal government in 1957 over desegregating Central High School in Little Rock. And Clark had different attitudes about race than his parents, ones that would come out later in his experience in the military and in politics. Overall, Sputnik, public schools, racism, and athletics, as well as the warmth of a mother's love, were the guiding forces of his Southern flavored childhood. Swimming and school were the hallmarks of Clark's life in Arkansas, and he tells one episode of his vaguely cruel and inspiring swim coach, Jimmy Miller, forcing him to excel an reach his full potential through public humiliation. Clark's desire to excel, and to coach others to excel, is a constant theme in the book.
A Time to Lead is in many ways about the various experiences of forced growth and discipline Clark went through. He learned to be a soldier at West Point, with the incredible hazing and pressure at first and then the ability to lead later on. Teamwork, self-discipline, and competitiveness were overlaid onto a process of breaking down egos and forcing genuine authenticity and commitment to public service and the military. At West Point, Clark describes how to was made very clear that part of the job of a soldier was to kill, a profoundly heavy responsibility for teenagers on their way to becoming men. At college, Clark earned a Rhodes Scholarship, met his wife, and determined to dedicate himself to international relations and larger strategic through his commitment to the 'profession of arms'.
Clark is of the West Point class of 1966 which saw 31 members killed in Vietnam. Unlike most of his class, he did not go right away, spending a few years at Oxford studying and defending American involvement in Vietnam in an increasingly anti-war and anti-American environment. After Oxford, he went off to fight in the war he defended. As the leader of a mechanized company, he was severely wounded. As he tells it, while in the jungle, he came under a hail of gunfire, and one of his men, specialist Mike McClintic saved his life by knocking him to the ground, "becoming my hero for all time." And yet, even as he was being airlifted out of the combat zone, riddled with bullet holes, Clark thought of his three year old son and his wife, and reflected on how good life can be. Vietnam really colored Clark's sense of the military, and his own sense of self.
In many ways, Vietnam really envelopes Clark's whole life, as it was at war, in a military becoming progressively weaker, that Clark learned about the necessity of leadership and positive progress. Accepting honest feedback, open engagement with real problems, preparation, and genuine authoritative decision-making were keys to leadership that worked. Without those, he saw that units would and did fail under fire. These principles would serve him well for the next thirty years.
After Vietnam, Clark became one of many young leaders in transitioning the military to an all-volunteer force and rebuilding its somewhat shattered credibility and discipline. The military has a fascinating system for integrating its brightest young leaders into decision-making roles, swinging them through high level civilian positions so they can understand politics and policy-making. Clark went through this system during the 1970s, veering back and forth from an active military commands in the Army to highly political policy-oriented positions. But first he revisited the lessons of Vietnam. While frustrated with civilian hostility to the military, which had only deepened since his time at Oxford, Clark was forced to revisit his institutional loyalty to decision-makers when he had to write a review of David Halberstam's The Best and the Brightest, and was confronted with the stubborn refusal of military officials to accept criticism. He served at Fort Leavenworth, where he began work on a set of strategic ideas that would later become the basis of the Powell doctrine, and then served as a White House fellow at the Office of Management and Budget in the Ford White House, under Chief of Staff Don Rumsfeld and his deputy, Dick Cheney. He served in Germany, and then as speechwriter to Alexander Haig, the Supreme Allied Commander.
In the 1980s, he moved on to important posts at Fort Cheyenne, the National Training Center, and then built the a Combat Training Center for division and corps commanders. Rebuilding the warfighting capacity of the military was linked to his time crafting these training facilities, where Clark created training simulations so military commanders could fight mock battles and learn from them. This is Clark's genius, the ability to create what he calls a 'change engine' within extremely large institutions, and he makes suggestions throughout the book about how lessons he's learned in the army can be cross-applied to governance, including scenarios like disaster assistance, nonmilitary intervention, and legal breakdowns. Clark's leadership throughout the military, and his ability to rethink traditional institutional boundaries and learn from failure, are genuinely revolutionary concepts that he was able to successfully apply. If there is any hope of adapting to climate change or dealing with vast economic inequalities, it will be through internalizing and spreading the concepts Clark was able to bring to the military. Clark's leadership of a volunteer army forced him to think through traditional social issues, including schooling and health care; as a commander in a peacetime army, he dealt with problems as varied as training materials, new weapon systems, and gang activity among the children of military personnel. And at every stage, he underscores the lessons of West Point and the importance of leadership.
The last part of the book involves Clark's move from management of military affairs to his ascension into the highest level of geopolitics. In 1994, Clark became the Director of Strategic Plans and Policy in the Pentagon under the Joint Chiefs, serving as the bridge between the national security planning process, the UN, and Capitol Hill. He had known Bill Clinton briefly at college, which immediately made him a target of partisan Republican attacks, and as he was in the hot seat coordinating strategy, the constant crises - Haiti, Rwanda, North Korea, the Balkans, and the Middle East - he got a fast-track introduction to DC. Though he was a nonpartisan military officer, Clark's earlier politics seemed organized around Republican 'grown-ups', people like Alexander Haig and Colin Powell. His wife even volunteered in the office of Kay Bailey Hutchinson. To me, it reads like his thinking began to shift when he came to DC, though his real political movement did not take place until much later. Clark's search for an overarching national strategy was constrained by an extremely partisan environment and a lack of funding for any agency except the military, which had become the go-to body for nearly all foreign policy activities. It was during this period that Clark, though he pushed internally for action in Rwanda, failed to generate the necessary action to stop the genocide, something that he would later remember in the Balkans. In his DC position, he began to understand his later opponent Milosevic, and worked with Dick Holbrooke, Tony Lake, and Defense Secretary Perry on the emerging NATO mission in the region.
Before the capstone episode of Clark's military career - the conflict with Milosevic - Clark was promoted to a position as Commander in Chief (CINC), US Southern Command, responsible for our military presence in much of Central and South America, where he continued to develop broader thematic ideas about the principled American strategy in a post-Cold War world. He oversaw the counter-narcotics mission, and began working closely with John Negroponte on tighter relations with Panama. It was a relatively short deployment, and Clark offers few real details as to what he did, but he was shortly returned to Europe at the CINC, US European Command and NATO Supreme Allied Commander. Clark's exploits in this position are more fully described in his other books, Waging Modern War and Winning Modern Wars, but he does discuss in great details the intersection between diplomacy, force, and personal relationships.
The defining constraint of Clark's work in the Balkans was his dual loyalty as NATO commander and as a high level American military officer. He had two chains of command, responsive to both a large group of countries and their leaders, as well as operating under the American Commander-in-Chief. He offers an explanation as to why American won this war. Without a clear and aggressive ability to ratchet up pressure on Milosevic through a targeted bombing campaign, strong NATO legitimacy underscored by humanitarian assistance and clear defensive aims, strong effort to hold down civilian casualties, minimal initial force, admission of mistakes, and adherence to international law, the war would not have been won. And not a single American soldier was lost. There's some revisionist history around the Kosovo conflict, and Clark does take a nice dig at Michael O'Hanlon's arguments, but the bottom line is that it was an extraordinarily successful approach compared to Iraq or any other modern American war.
After Kosovo, politics took over Clark's life entirely. He was retired early from the military, three months before his tour was finished. Though he doesn't describe the internal politics in any details, it's clear that this was a significant episode for him. As he moved into business, and began exploring his post-military public service options, 9/11 happened, and he was told by an Atlanta Republican that the Republicans would be dominant for because of the crisis, and he ought to join up: "If you ever want to be elected to office, you better become one of us, because we're going to be in charge for a very long time". This was repulsive to Clark, and as he saw the horrific strategic missteps of Bush in Iraq, he became first a Bush opponent and then a Democrat. Iraq serves as a nice metaphor for a conflict that has ignored all the lessons he had wracked up in his life, about leadership, running military outfits, strategy, and the moral stature of the country. But Iraq isn't all that moved Clark's political loyalties. The three interrelated challenges we face - terrorism, the rise of China, and powerful global issues like disease, human rights poverty, and climate change - are ignored or actively made worse by the policies of this administration.
Clark recounts his Presidential his campaign, run by Eli Segal and Mark Fabiani (yes, that Fabiani), in the context of his ideas for America and his belief that the neoconservative framework of 'smashing states' needs to be repudiated. He was drafted into the race by a 'din' on the internet, as well as calls from luminaries like Charlie Rangel and Jimmy Carter who saw him as an establishment alternative to Dean. Clark discusses the fateful decision not to compete in Iowa, claiming that it was against his instinct but that the decision was leaked to the press and became a fait accompli. The campaign tried to do too much too fast, and when Kerry beat Dean in Iowa, the rationale for Clark over Dean fell apart. I happened to be in Little Rock at the time that decision was made, and that seems to me to be an accurate analysis.
The book closes with Clark's idea on American strategy going forward. He offers a view of American power in which we engage seriously and systematically with the rest of the world, focus on more equitable development, aggressive moves to limit carbon emissions, and work towards a new consensus on human rights and and intervention. Politically, Clark hopes for a less partisan future with fewer personal attacks and more substantive debate between candidates. He believes the American people are ready for this new kind of leadership, one that recognizes the historic turning point before us and allows us to come together in a crisis. Everything he's seen in his life suggests that with the right kind of leadership we can rise to meet any challenge.
Ok, so that's the book, in a nutshell. It's worth reading, and real consideration. Lots of Very Serious and Important people write memoirs, but few of them are so connected both to powerful elite circles of decision-makers and the netroots itself, and have such a great track record of executing on their ideas. Clark didn't, of course, win the Presidency in 2004, but he did inspire a range of people to become involved in the political process that are building the tools we use today. For instance, Ben Rahn, one of the founders of Actblue, was a Clarkie, as was Lowell Feld, the founder of RaisingKaine. Digby was a Clarkie, as was I. And so reading Wes Clark's latest book, a Time to Lead, was a very personal experience for me. It was Clark who brought me into politics in 2002, who inspired me to believe that a different model of politics was possible through genuine leadership. Clark, like Dean, is part of the netroots as one of the first real internet candidates on the left. Like many internet political acolytes, he started out as a relatively apolitical figure who believed that professionalism mattered. He has become radicalized by the conservative movement and then the Bush administration, and began to take our political problems very seriously. In this bucket I'd throw Jane Hamsher, Glenn Greenwald, Wes Boyd of Moveon, Joan Blades, Eli Pariser, Markos, Duncan Black, and James Rucker of Color of Change, as well as many of us who read this site every day and whole host of other frustrated and disaffected professionals throughout the government, the military, and the business community.
So it's important to understand what Clark, as probably our most prominent champion in decision-making circles, really believes. But as I've grown and matured politically, I'm beginning to understand that I have some questions and possible disagreements with his framework. They are at this point mostly instinctive, because I haven't had time to flesh them out systemically. I would characterize them as threefold. One, how do we deal with systematic bad faith within the political environment? Two, what is the role of ordinary citizens in leading change? And three, how do we handle bad faith among political leaders themselves?
In terms of question one, it seems that the level of twisted bad faith in the political system is quite severe, and cannot be repudiated without intense domestic political debate. This will not be high-minded, and it will not be based on facts, it will be and is organized around the dishonest tactics of the neoconservative and Republican revolutionaries and their wealthy conservative backers. Clark is a strategist, and I would like to see him think through the organization of a systemic 'change engine' for the corruption in our political system similar to his work at the National Training Center. After all, we're reality-based, and we know that just putting out facts and substance does not work to repair this bad faith environment. What does?
On question two, Clark confines his discussions to the the military world, the diplomatic world, political decision-makers and the business world. Left out is, well, us. What is the role of ordinary citizens in crafting the new American strategy? His arguments about leadership make a great deal of sense in the context of existing institutional arrangements, but where does, say, the antiwar sentiment within the public fit? Why has there been so little effective antiwar leadership among elite decision-makers, but also, among citizens at large? Why were Americans at large so passive, and why is there such passivity in the face of over torture and episodes of gang-rape among military contractors? What is the role of the new citizen-enabled activism on the internet that has pushed the debate, and how can it be integrated into existing institutional arrangements?
On question three, what does a real response to the current crisis of political liberalism look like? What happens when certain military and political elites lose their legitimacy within the public at large? Clark is a very experienced man, and he grew up in a bipartisan consensus age, when Sputnik galvanized mass action around education, and Republicans and Democrats agreed on a bipartisan strategy of engagement and Cold War. Clark knows that we face something different today, domestically, as there are real disagreements within the country at large about the nature of our engagement with the rest of the world. Republicans genuinely believe that engagement with the rest of the world through strategic restraint and international cooperation weakens us; many Democrats agree. And systemic bad faith arguments are levied at the American public about torture, military contracting, and national security, with complicity in this dishonest dialogue at high levels. What is the strategy to deal with this? Why can't we call liars liars? I encountered this question in my interview with Clark about the Petraeus flap, when I asked him what individuals who felt Petraeus was being dishonest should do. His answer suggested that he thought of Moveon as a small group of decision-makers, instead of an organization run by a small group of people but deriving its fundamental legitimacy from 3 million people, most of whom probably do feel that way. There is broad public bitterness at the decision-makers in the military, the business community, and in the political system who enable our current inequitable power arrangements that Clark himself calls 'the new segregation'. What does an effective response to these bad faith actors look like?
I'm honored to know Clark, and to have the opportunity to discuss his book and his extraordinary life experiences today. I cannot describe just how much his thoughts and leadership have inspired me and many of the people that operate in this new progressive movement. One of the bright spots of the next administration, if it is Democratic, will be Wes Clark as a cabinet member. Please welcome him to the FDL community for this fascinating chat!
Oh, and buy his book!
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Welcome, Wes…
I have a family member who was in Desert Storm and he didn’t end up seeing any serious action. He told me it was because almost all of the Iraqi soldiers his unit encountered just surrendered. They’d been out in the field for a long time. They were tired and hungry, and they knew that the Americans wouldn’t hurt them. They knew they’d be fed and given a place to sleep and they wouldn’t be harmed.
It seems to me that that war would have been very different if our current policies with regard to treatment of prisoners had been in place. Do you think that our current policies have taken away the incentive to surrender? How do you think our present conflicts have been effected by the fear of being tortured?
Welcome General Clark, and thank you Matt for a great intro. We really appreciate you both being here today.
RegNYC, that is a great question!
Welcome, Wes!
Welcome General Clark.
Are you proud of bombing the Serbs, and if so, why?
If the Republicans were to select John McCain who seems to be regaining traction and is perceived as having strong military/foreign policy/national security credentials, do you believe that the Democratic ticket would be crippled by someone (like Obama) not having strong credentials in that area?
If Hillary is the Democratic nominee and McCain is the Republican nominee, do you believe that it would be beneficial for HRC to select a VP with exceptional military and foreign policy experience (for example, someone like a former Supreme Allied Commander Europe)?
McCain has made it fairly clear that he favors endless war in the Middle East including starting a new war with Iran, so would this be the major point of debate between him and the Democratic nominee and how could HRC exploit this more effectively that Obama?
Thank you for your inspiring example, General. You have shaped my life in fairly profound ways (for me, anyway).
General: What do you think of Kosovo’s imminent declaration of independence?
Good afternoon, General Clark. Thank you for your service to our country. I heard you speak at the science seminar at Yearly Kos I and I used to enjoy hearing your analysis on CNN before you ran for president. Are you appearing regularly on any of the networks now?
Thanks, Jane, for this wonderful forum and for allowing me the honor of writing this introduction!
Hello General Clark,
Since you’ve endorsed Hillary Clinton I wonder how you now defend her vote on Kly/Lieberman since days before in several radio interviews you said you were uneasy with that bill. I also wonder if you defend her admitting she would use torture in some hypothetical worst case scenario.
Thanks very much to FireDogLake for hosting me! I’m excited to be here.
Biodun, I think Kosovo must declare independence, and I hope that all of Europe as well as the U.S. will support them.
Gen. Clark. Would you consider accepting a position in a Democratic administration. Say like Sec. of Defense or State?.
An earlier birthday greeting for you General Clark. Best wishes for wonderful year.
I enjoyed your book very much, and just wrapped a copy that I’m giving for Christmas. The part about your journey with Gert in Morgan had me laughing aloud. Well, until that dastardly accident.
My favorite of your books remains Waging Modern War which brings us to the subject of Kosova. From what I’ve been reading, events in that country are leading to trouble. I understand that Solana has plans to have the EU take over the situation. Could you share your thoughts?
General Clark, congratulations on your book.
Do you see a career in politics ahead of you? Would you consider the vice presidency should it be offered? Would you consider running for president again, in the future, should the opportunity present itself?
In your recent interview on wnyc’s Brian Lehrer show* you made several statements that astonished me. Particularly your aggressive stand vis-a-vis Iran. It sounds like think that their president has more power than he has, and that you are unaware that his statement about Israel was mistranslated, and that his rhetoric is directed toward his internal audience for political reasons, not too different from President Bush’s “Bring em on,” or “with us or against us.” From whom are you getting your information on Iran?
* http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/episodes/2007/11/28
Hello General Clark,
An economics related question here, I just finished reading Paul Krugman’s book, The Consicience of a Liberal. In it he believes for us to survive as a nation at this troubled point, we need a new New Deal. The pillar of that would be universal health care for everybody. He goes on to say that trying to be bipartisan at this point in time won’t work. We are going to have to have a very partisan time to get results, as in the days of FDR and then we may be able to move to more bipartisanship as happened in the time of Eisenhower, Kennedy and Johnson (even Nixon to a point). What do you think?
Thanks for that answer, General. And Happy Birthday to you, sir.
Mango, they are a terrorist group. Torture is unnecessary and unlawful. We won’t do it and we shouldn’t do it.
Re Kosovo: Under what conditions will the Serbs be less disturbed about Kosavar independence, and what will the Serbs do if these conditions are not met?
Welcome General Clark!
Since your military experiences were colored (I assume) by your Vietnam service, how do you think the current generation of senior officers (O-6 and above) were swayed by their experiences in Lebanon, Panama, Grenada and all the other brush fires of the ’80s and ’90s? Do you think they possibly became over-confident and were thus incapable of saying no and explaining WHY the Iraq mis-adventure was wrong?
neurophius, I’m an analyst for MSNBC.
Reg — I have some dear friends who were West Point grads whose first service as officers was in the first Gulf War, and who had very similar experiences. I can remember one in particular telling me the story of how starved the Iraqi soldiers were — to the point that one officer tried to eat some Chapstick they had given him for his dried and cracked lips because he thought it was some sort of food since it smelled like fruit. That story really stuck with me, because it was so divergent from what we had been lead to believe about the vaunted military that Saddam was supposed to have after the Iran/Iraq War. It was as though, somehow, we had failed up update our thought process from the Rummy visits to Iraq in the 1980s.
And then we continued to fail to do that into the Bush Administration…
Welcome Home General Clark
MJ
1st Sig RVN 68-69
1/79 Arty, 7th ID Korea 67-78
You remain an inspiration.
Gen. Clark — Welcome to FDL — good to have you here for a discussion. And, as always, great to see you, Matt!
What do you think of Iran’s offer of a Grand Bargain in 03, and their current offer to remove uranium enrichment to Switzerland. (Assume that’s generic to move it out of country.)
I think the lack of Vietnam experience delayed the army’s adoption of effective counter-insurgency tactics. I think that they were responsive to the orders of the SecDef as they’re required to be. And Rumsfeld failed to understand the situation and give adequate/proper guidance.
What, if anything, needs to be changed about NPT? Iran is allowed to enrich uranium under NPT. Are you against this provision of the treaty?
I think that actions of some units created enemies and resistance in the current operation, but we’re doing better now.
Let’s stay on the topic of the book, please.
Why?
Jane, thanks very much for having me here today!
It’s a flattering question, but I haven’t actually worked through that issue. It’s a little premature. First, Democrats have to pick a nominee, and then we have to win.
There has been discussion about replacing the NATO force by an EU force. I’m inclined against that at this point. It could come later.
General Clark, in your opinion would a military officer be within their rights to disobey an order to waterboard a prisoner-of-war for the reason that it was an unlawful order?
Gen. Clark - I have had a series of questions about the conduct that military folks have had to face between the rules and regs of the UCMJ with regard to prisoner treatment, ethics and all the other ethical and legal conduct guidelines which we’ve lined out over the years — and what they are being asked to do by civilian leadership in the Bush Administration and the DOD. I know what the UCMJ says in terms of refusing to follow an illegal order, but I’d love to hear your thoughts on how an officer or an enlisted soldier realistically can deal with that level of pressure coming at them from the political types and from intel folks, along with the peer pressure.
It seems like a very difficult Catch-22 position in which troops have found themselves the last few years. Charlie Savage’s recent reporting about a behind-the-scenes maneuver to gut the JAG officers (since scuttled due to public scrutiny) was a big heads up for me that the Bush Administration hasn’t change their behavior, they’ve just gotten better at trying to hide it. Any thoughts on all of this would be very much appreciated.
Well, it’s certainly an honor to even be in the same discussion as General Wes Clark!
I’d like his opinion on my observation;
I believe the INTENTION of this administration is TO break the army.
I believe the very purpose of this group of people is the privatization of all government services.
I think they WANT to over extend our armed forces, they WANT us obligated into using mercenaries.
It’s the brown shirt all over again, it’s the privatization of everything, they WANT private education, private insurance for ALL catastrophes, they WANT private fire departments, they WANT private police, they HATE any social project, THEY HATE GOVERNMENT
I conclude, the over extending of our armed forces is a deliberate strategy to force us into dependence on private mercenaries
and these will be the private mercenaries of their choosing, black water, and haliburton.
I believe someone of your back round needs to raise this alarm, that our military is under attack and under siege, that the very design, the very purpose is to destroy the armed forces of the United States of America
Why have generals been willing to lie for President Bush and what does this indicate about the quality of the U.S. military?
I agree that health care has become perhaps the defining issue in the Democratic campaign so far. On the other hand, there are economic concerns that could overshadow even health care as an issue affecting ordinary Americans. I do believe that we must resolve the health care situation so that every American can have access to quality health care, including preventive and diagnostic care. However, I don’t believe history ever repeats itself exactly. What we need is a national strategy to strengthen America’s competitiveness in a global economic environment. And for that, we really do need all Americans to be roughly on the same team.
How applicable was our counterinsurgency effort in the Nam since we were facing a sophisticated resupply system down the Ho Chi Minh Trail? Do you see Iran as an equivalent of the Chinese and Soviets in terms of weapons and ordinance?
Also, related to my previous question, the actions that have undermined the rule of law and our commitment to human rights — Guantanimo, Abu Ghraib and so many others — stem from poorly advised and conceived choices at the highest levels of the Bush Administration. How do we correct those errors and restore America’s commitment to lawful and ethical conduct both right now and into the future? How many generations is this likely to take, in your mind?
Thanks for your service and the kind words. We’re all in it together.
Thanks for the direction, Jane, let me re-phrase my question.
General Clark,
I have read your book. I always enjoy reading about the times in which you grew up and the impact your early life experiences had on you as well as those in your government service. Having lived through the years of FDR, Truman, Eisehower, Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon, do you think we need to have a strong correction from the way our country has been run from the right to a Democratic president and veto proof majority of Democrats in congress and 60 Democratic senators, to push through all the changes that must be made for us to survive as a nation, before we can return to a time when people can return to bipartisanship and civility, like happened even during the days of Reagan and Tip O’Neil?
I recently heard that you wanted to bomb the airport at Pristina after the Russians took it over, and that it took a near-mutiny on the part of the Brits to stop you. Is that accurate, and if so, what do you think the consequences of a NATO bombing of a Russian controlled airport might have been, if you’d had you way?
It’s great to be here!
this in my opinion is kind to say the least
I believe what Rumsfeld did was deliberate, I believe he knew his strategy was doomed, I believe they deliberately undermined any strategy that might have had a chance of success
they didn’t want to succeed, they didn’t want to “win the hearts and minds” if they did they would have protected their infrastructure, they would have given the rebuilding resources to the Iraqi’s and not to their pals at haliburton
they knew they needed more manpower, more equipment, and they knew they needed to protect the infrastructure
winning the hearts and minds of the native population means you DO NOT keep active their facilities of torture, you do NOT turn a secular government into a region by region theocracy, these are decisions deliberately intended to create unrest
if we were to write a novel using the decisions of Rumsfeld, it would be to far fetched that we didn’t see his “strategy” was a deliberate effort to undermine success
sorry, a person cannot possibly be that inept and still be able to walk and talk at the same time
I think that we should be talking to Iran on this and other issues. We should investigate their offers and develop a deeper understanding of their interests and motivations.
Many U.S. analysts already have a deep understanding of Iran and their issues. Who among them have you talked to, and what have they told you?
General Clark’
How would you classify the danger of an Iran with nuclear weapons? How much should the US risk to stop them from acquiring them? Is it worth another war?
Thanks
I’ve been concerned about this issue. I think the troops and the CIA were given an erroneous legal opinion - one that would have been rejected by any disinterested jurist. The US has appeared to be quite hypocritical - we’ve charged people in the past for following orders and said that, “Just following orders” is no excuse. On the other hand, it’s clear that the onus of responsibility belongs at the top. I hope Congress will do its duty, and demand a full investigation.
So you don’t believe that the problems at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay come down from the administration?
Thank you for answering my question. I agree that we all need to be in this together. Just wondering on the leadership strategy on how to get there from here.
Many U.S. analysts already have a deep understanding of Iran and its issues. Who among those do you talk to and what do they tell you?
If we are to have universal health care, do you believe that the taxpayers funding that system have a right to demand certain responsible behavior on the part of the consumers of that system. For example, smoking is a highly preventable activity that costs our health care system about $65 billion annually. Some employers (like Cleveland Clinic Hospital system) are not even hiring smokers (with tests to prove non-smoking behavior) in attempts to reign in health care costs. Could a national health care plan be acceptable that would require certain behavorial changes in exchange for coverage under such a plan?
I tend to see the situation a little differently. I think the administration is caught in its own trap of using the military and using the military ineffectively for too long. No doubt some of their supporters and others have made serious money in the contracting business, but I haven’t seen the evidence to pursuade me that the administration would deliberately break the Army. That’s a lot farther than I’d be willing to go.
No, I do believe that.
What evidence would it take to convince you?
What you heard is NOT accurate.
Mahalo, Gen. Clark, for being here today! I served twenty years myself, 10 USA and 10 HI-ARNG! My boys have just been alerted again for deployment to Iraq! My question to you is, how do you reconcile the Powell doctrine, of which we broke it, we have to fix it, into the current political quagmire? Do we remain indefinately, or can we attempt an orderly withdrawal…?
I think that Iranian nuclear weapons certainly present a problem for the US and the region. I’ve said that we need to take all necessary measures to prevent their acquiring of such weapons.
wes - i haven’t read your book yet, but matt’s description makes me want to.
lots of questions, i’ll start with the political: why did you think it was so important to oppose dean ?
Not yet. Iran has different motivations.
Well I’d prefer to hear that report is not accurate from General Clark. But in the meantime, do you have a link?
Now that you see what is involved with campaigning with HRC in Iowa, do you believe it would have been possible for you to mount an effective campaign in Iowa in 2003/2004 if you hadn’t received contrary advice from your staff back then?
They’re already winning in Iraq. They want to maneuver us out in a way that doesn’t result in our striking their country.
Under what circumstances would you recommend bombing Iran?
in that case, I defer to your superior knowledge and opinion and will give the benefit of my doubt to your interpretation of these events
at least for until the next discovery of inept decision, then I might have to retake my original opinion
I think it can be done in a few years with the right leadership in the United States. We just need strong leaders that are commited to doing the right thing.
Geez, either tooobz are acting weird or mods are censoring me.
Good afternoon,
Even as the recession deepens if would be best for America to follow Britain’s example of giving its citizens universal health care immediately following WWII. It was abundantly clear that the strength, determination and resilience of the British people to withstand the bombing helped save the British nation.
That seems pretty boilerplate. Can you expand what you mean by “strong” leaders (i.e. do you mean leaders willing to bomb?) and what do you mean by “right thing?”
Do you believe that ‘radical Islam’ is more likely to acquire nuclear weapons via development in Iran or through the fall of Pakistan which already has nuclear weapons? Will Al-Qaeda continue to be granted safe harbor in NW Pakistan until they destablize that country for their own benefit?
Well, Rumsfeld deliberately refused to follow the Powell doctrine. That was a mistake. But I do believe that it will be possible to commence a withdrawal, and within a reasonable time get our troops out.
I think it might be done in a few years, IF the right thing is done, this is not however likely
we are no longer seen as fair brokers of any treaty or negotiation, we are seen as lawless despots aquiring the treasure of continents to satisfy a the few alite
the right things that need to be done would be to recognize the criminals and bring them to the bar of justice
sad to say, this is not going to happen in a few years no matter who is elected
therefore, it will likely take a generation…imho
{osted this once, but did not appear. Will try again. I’d prefer an answer from Gen. Clark, but in the meantime, can you provide a link?
I think the administration is caught in its own trap of using the military and using the military ineffectively for too long. No doubt some of their supporters and others have made serious money in the contracting business, but I haven’t seen the evidence to pursuade me that the administration would deliberately break the Army. That’s a lot farther than I’d be willing to go.
It seems to me that at this point, the burden of proof is in showing that they aren’t deliberately doing this, not on others to show that they are.
Gen.Clark, welcome, as you can see by the questions here today, they are all aware of many situations that the Bush Admin. inflicted upon our once Great Country for the last 7 yrs. The older embedded personnel and yourself have been subverting our Constitution and Military for the last 40yrs stong. We know the ones that should be arrested, held lawyers up at the Hegue and placed in a cell for a very long time for Treason, wrapped in the American Flag. I am ashamed for what damage and crimes our country has done to it’s own people and the people around the globe. I want to let them all know, this was done, not in my name. I want to tell the world we are sorry, I want our military to stand down, leave all foreign soils and return home to recupe and reforce on OUR COUNTRY, our boarders, our infastruture, our people. Let the rest of the World Heal for the wounds we have inflicted upon them. Peace, Love, Health and Happiness to you and yours…
Or follow Shinseki’s advice of 250,000 troops at the outset…
Yes.
Through the fall of Pakistan. THere’s an active struggle underway inside Pakistan. The outcome has yet to be decided, but I’d be very surprised to see al Qaeda destabalize the country
I think I do agree with that point of view, how’s the saying go?
“fool me once…errr….CAN’T BE FOOLED AGAIN”
or something like that
Gen Clark, It is my belief that the military of the US is way too large and certainly over extended being based in 193 countries.
Do you believe we need to maintain such a huge OFFENSIVE military and have so many off shore bases? WHY
Can we not take a smarter and more DIPLOMATIC approach to world affairs than the SHOCK AND AWE that the military is so fond of?
If the down ticket under Clinton does not add up for a Dem majority and it appears the general election will not favor her many people would like to see you support the Democratic ticket would you do that?
I think that provision needs to be tightened up and eventually replaced by international enrichment authorities.
from matt: “he wrote this book because he believes that America is not having the honest dialogue necessary about our place in the world”.
wes - something that’s always bothered me is the term “national interest.” it sounds like it’s being used as a code word for something, but i don’t know exactly what that is (maybe it’s different for each person who uses it). i think this has gotten in our way of having the honest dialogue you advocate. would you tell us what you mean, specifically, when you use the term? what do you think our national interests are? and what actions are we justified in taking in pursuit of them. please be as specific as you can (examples would be great). thanks.
General Clark with all due respect to your profession, don’t you think mankind has had enough warfare solutions to its problems? When will we have a warrior to admits that this is the MIC and power thirsty people who KEEP the military in power, who keep THEM in power and this is sucking the resources of many societies.
Haven’t we has enough?