Anyone have any idea what the hell HRC is talking about here?
"Experience in foreign affairs is critical for ending the war in Iraq, averting war in Iran, negotiating a Middle East peace and dealing with North Korea."
This is just bizarre. Is Hillary saying that military confrontation with Tehran is more likely under Edwards or Obama? Really?
The word "averting" is particularly troublesome, because it implies that war with Iran is a likely outcome. And even the neocons have, to some degree, tempered this kind of reckless rhetoric after the NIE rained on their parade.
Here’s some unsolicited advice for the Senator: instead of attacking her fellow Democrats as incapable of dealing with imaginary wars dreamed up by Norman Podhoretz, Hillary should instead be talking about Afghanistan, and be hammering Bush and the Republicans for failing to achieve victory there — six years after 9/11.
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Ummm.
Hello Blue Texan…
Morning.
Next time she opens her mouth, I’ll avert my ears.
Hillary likes to see herself as a “liberal” hawk…
All very good points, BT.
Why do you always have to assume it’s an attack? It could be that she’s giving a complement and maybe even a subtle endorsement to Bill Richardson and/or Joe Biden.
*g*
She’s desperate. Yuk, another Lieberdem.
…and that’s why she voted to authorize Chimpy to go into Iraq in the first place.
There’s no doubt she’s a hawk, as is Bubba.
OT – presser with Rice starting shortly on cspan1
I don’t know how she “likes” to see herself, but I do not see her as ever having been much of a liberal. I’ll give her “hawk”; that’s one reason I don’t see her as Presidential material.
Hi, Blue Texan. Great post as usual. Funny how sometimes a seemingly innocuous quote from a typical campaign speech changes when you really stop and think about what was said.
Her financiers want this “war” in Iraq to continue as they are making a bloody fortune she is a corporate whore with the only difference between her and a gooper is the ‘D’ rather than ‘R’ after her name. Let us not forget NAFTA and welfare reform brought to us by BJ Clinton.
Anyone have any idea what the hell HRC is talking about here?
Yep. Just courting the independent, but hawkish, vote. Not arguing *for* war w/Iran, but lettin’ em know that she hasn’t forgotten about the issue either.
Hillary likes to see herself as a “liberal” hawk…
OOoh, just like another Charlie Wilson! And we all know how well that turned out.
*cough*…Blowback…*cough* *cough*
Well, if I had to guess, her thesis is that Iran would be more aggressive with those pussies Edwards or Obama in charge, forcing us, eventually, into war with them. Whereas, of course, her strong but reasoned…oh, hell, I can’t even type this shit anymore.
Sorry, I don’t see any future in mustering “can’t support” cases against any of the Democratic candidates. I’ll leave that the Chris Matthews. Ultimately, it gets us the latest version of Nixon, Reagan, or Bush. Have a nice day.
LOL!
Is Hillary using the GOP Jedi Mind trick? I will vote for a bill that brings us closer to war with Iran. (Kyl-Lieberman) while proclaiming, I have the “experience” necessary to Avert said war. Yes, that’s it. Brilliant. /snark
Is Hillary trying to imply that her experience as First Lady constitutes “experience in foreign affairs” significantly superior to that of her opponents? If so, we have to doubt her grip on reality.
Idn’t dat da troof, Roof.
“I can invade, eavesdrop, plyer and blow torch raggers as well as any constipated white male – you betcha !!”
She has expressed that holding back some sticks would be wiser in dealing with countries that one is in negotiation with over nuclear proliferation; whereas, Obama wants to personally engage the leaders.
Having been married to the President, she does have more experience in foreign affairs in my opinion, but that doesn’t mean that her judgment is good.
Guess you have to quit your job with the WH Press Corps then?
shame on me…I CANT STAND HER !echhhhhhhhhhh
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
dollars plummeting need alot MORE dem greenbacks to finance the yachts
I guess there’s no chance we get to hear about what happens in Kennedy’s court this morning….is there?
I’m not the biggest HRC supporter either, but I do lean towards crosstimbers feelings. I guess there’s a fine line between discerning and dissing.
BlueTexan, who do you support for the Dem nom, at this point in the race?
I used to have a favorite, but now I’m totally undecided.
Iraq is in total shambles,same with Afghanistan…can anybody splain to me how WAR is ever an option for peace?
why do we have to take the “liberal” medias 2 choices?
War is an option for a piece of the defense budget.
Yep, I think a lot of people are in that boat.
For some reason, your comment reminding of the saying:
I used to be apathetic, but now I don’t care.
Not saying You don’t care, I just was reminded of that…
*g*
can anybody splain to me how WAR is ever an option for peace?
I’m sure HRC can splain, ’cause she a world class genius!
Uh huh.
The right to profit from death.
in 1937 the most decorated general wrote a book WAR IS A RACKET read it
http://www.lexrex.com/enlighte…..racket.htm
A negro and a woman A negro and a woman A negro and a woman A negro and a woman . . .
I don’t think we have to.
I think it’s a disgrace that the MSM only focuses on Clinton and Obama.
They are very short-sighted and lack what it takes to cover all of the candidates.
It’s still early yet, tho. Let’s see what happens.
why do we let them CONTROL US 24/7 365????????
THE MEDIA IS mind control period!
After a lot of reading and maybe its naive, I think John Edwards gives us ordinary American the best chance. The Clintons were involved in Crisis Capitalism too.
Chapter One
WAR IS A RACKET
WAR is a racket. It always has been.
It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.
A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small “inside” group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.
Through the looking glass
oh please can we turn off the REPUBLICAN/FASCIST spin machine long enuf to get a real leader…Edwards gets it.Like Dean got it….lets make the “liberal” media that awards Glen Beck with 10 million smackers a year
IRRELEVANT
When she starts saying things like, “I can’t wait to see the Yankees win the Super Bowl,” then she’ll be in trouble.
They are all in the pockets of the corporatists and the PACs, both the Dems and the Reps. I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
I’m pretty disappointed in Hillary, but having said all that, I will support the Dem nominee.
Don’t submit.
Imagine a world where each stinking pundit and yapping head becomes obsolete.
This very medium brings that day closer.
There are at least 2 “classical” Republicans in my office who are just about dying to vote for a Democrat in 2008 but both of them are scared to death of Hillary. Not because she’s Hillary, and not because her last name is Clinton, but because they get a “bait and switch” vibe.
In the World War [I] a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows.
How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?
S. Butler
FWIW, I mentioned this in previous thread: I attended a Chris Dodd for Predident campaign event last night. His stump speech was short, concise, and outlined his experience and record. He has excellent credentials and gets zero press coverage. I did get the chance to shake his hand and personally thank him for his leadership on the telecom immunity fillibuster. He was very humble and simply explained that is was a very simple decision. He took an oath of office to uphold and defend the constitution. He also expressed his dis-appointment that his 3 other Senate colleagues were not with him on the Senate floor living up to their oath to office. I have been a vocal supporter of Edwards and am leaning towards caucausing for him. But Dodd has me looking very closely at him. He has all the credentials.
Anybody watching or learning about what is happening in Judge Kennedy’s courtroom this morning regarding the destruction of the CIA tapes?
The whole Iran thing reeks of irony anyway. Our leader HAS nukes and he’s already destroyed a country for nothing — he’s crazier than their guy is.
A world without Tim Russert, David Broder, Howie Kurtz ??
Bring it !!!!
Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few – the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill.
And what is this bill?
This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its attendant miseries. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations.
For a great many years, as a soldier, I had a suspicion that war was a racket; not until I retired to civil life did I fully realize it. Now that I see the international war clouds gathering, as they are today, I must face it and speak out.
S. Butler
I think we should be focusing on the Democrats who joined the Republicans in this last funding vote…
NPR actually ran a decent interview with his wife Jackie last night. She said he decided to get into the race because the Constitution is under assault. Never heard HRC worrying about the Constitution…why?
Unfortunately, it will be “all over” by the Indiana primaries in May. I’m for Edwards, hope he pulls an upset in Iowa. I sent Dodd a small donation even though I don’t think he has a chance, just because of his principled action on FISA. And like others here, I will vote for the Dem candidate, but I may be holding my nose.
And Glenzilla has a great article up this morning on Reid vs. “Dodd and his allies.”
Dodds father was a Nurenburg lawyer i believe…he was brought up understanding the NAZIs and fascism…i fully support his efforts…bless him and his good father
Face it, Hillary, Obama, and Biden didn’t worry enough about the Constitution to interrupt their campaigns to join Dodd. If they had, Reid couldn’t possibly have said (with a straight face) that Dodd was just angling for attention.
As far as I am concerned, that cost Hillary and Obama my support.
Fixed it for ya.
Dodd recently wrote a book about it called Letters from Nuremberg: My Father’s Narrative of a Quest for Justice.
as opposed to chimpies grand daddy Prescot,who was caught TRADING WITH THE ENEMY and ($upported Hitlers gas chambers)and look who became president of our democracy…hahahahahahahahaha
Hey, thanks. I was…uh…just testing you guys to see if you knew the right answer. ;)
One of the reasons I particularly like Dodd for president is that he of all the candidates is the most likely to bring these bastards to justice, if he’s elected.
chimpies lovely legacy
http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm
Guess she shouldn’t have voted for Lieberman/Kyl then, huh?
Honestly, STFU Hillary. We’re on to you.
btw, Happy Winter Solstice to everyone in the Northern Hemisphere.
(And, we gotta Full Moon coming on Sunday.)
I am really really sick of Joe Lieberman, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and all Republicans in general, saying “confrontation with (fill in blank) is inevitable. Lieberman seems to think confrontation with China is inevitable, confrontation with Iran to him is a given. When is this going to stop? The Iraq/Afghanistan debacle has been one long national nightmare. And yet these stupid politicians and so-called experts continue to plague and taunt us. Is it all political opportunism on their part, or are HoJoe/Clinton/Obama/goopers really crazy?
it is a long line of war profiteers our media covered up for, no?
funny they never get in uniform ,no?
that was OUR! sorry bout that
Happy Solstice to you as well, demi. I’m looking forward to longer days and hopefully, less crankiness on my part. ;)
and please don’t forget our coup in haiti :(
Happy Winter Solstice to you too. And Happy Eid to anyone who may be celebrating that holiday.
What is Hillary’s foreign affairs experience she keeps talking about? working with berger and tenet? albright and james rubin?
i am so sick of having presidents who think it’s ok to go around bombing other countries into submission when our coups and other plans go awry.
Hillary is incorrect. Any of the Democratic candidates is capable of averting war with Iran. So far, the US has averted war with Iran with a bunch of Podhoretz styled neocons at the helm. They can’t get public support for it. They haven’t got the resources to do it and they’ve got themselves entangled in all manner of scandal. It is not a great task to stay out of war with Iran. Hillary believes that she must talk tough to get Republicans (and idiots) to vote for her. They are not going to vote for her no matter what she does.
Some people are more affected by sun deprivation than others.
Me. I hate the wind. Makes me so irritable.
Envisioning virtual sunlight for all.
People support Hillary because it puts Bill back in the White House and like it or not, he didn’t do badly by the country. You can claim NAFTA (are those the right initials?) gave away American jobs, but those jobs were gone as soon as the powers that be learned little brown people make circuit boards as good as Americans and a hell of a lot cheaper.
Face it folks, we have no choice but to keep our fingers crossed and vote for the Dem even if it is Hillary. Voting Democratic didn’t do all that much good in 2006 but we live in hope. We should, perhaps, start thinking of alternatives for 2012, but that’s OT now and maybe later.
A lot of TRUTH packed into that tight statement!
yup,and talking smart is always better than talking tough! imo
Dru!
(i never told you, but you were my first fb friend.) :)
But of course! This is what I get for feeling blood vessels pop out and new facial tics coming on — and posting without thinking enough first — just to get some temporary relief from it all.
I’m honored to know that!
Your ffbff,
Dru
i wish hope would cut it…this is a chess game we must win!
Thanks for the compliment ET. I appreciate it. You’re one of my favorite posters here. I marvel at the things you come up with.
Staying OT for one more comment and then I’ll be good…
There are a coupla firedog friends I haven’t seen here for a little while. Anybody seen Bustedknuckles, RonD, Newtonuser?
I just dropped a C note (or the credit card equivalent)in the Dodd campaign coffers. I had meant to do so earlier right after the FISA debacle, but a campaign e-mail came in at just the right time. He and Edwards are my choices.
Thank you kindly. (Not part of my religious tradition, I should say, but a state holiday here, so hard not to ‘celebrate’ in some sense of the word)
Newtonusr is around at odd hours and RonD did a drive-by yesterday saying that he’d taken a lightening hit that fried his machine. Don’t know about busted though
Newtonusr is around, because he helped TRex with a music video a couple of days ago. Haven’t seen him commenting. I haven’t seen Busted either.
Thanks Dakine,
I’ll fb busted. He’s such a sweet guy. Hope he’s ok.
At sunset yesterday as I was driving straight into the sun, I wished my world a happy winter’s solstice. Have you read about the crazies who are driving I-35 trying to purify it? Anyhow, the part of it that takes me from my town to dakine’s perfectly lines up with the setting winter sun and blinds the driver completely. I think the fundies ought to look into that.
I saw Busted somewhere else within the past couple of days, but can’t recall where, darn it.
Maybe over at TRex’s new place?
i tried sticking 20 bucks into the monitor but it didn’t work :/
Whereabouts are you, if you care to share? And what are the traditions/ celebrations you are seeing? Peace!
Might be; I did a quick search around my regular haunts but couldn’t find him.
Blinded By The Light (YouTube)
Great. Now I will be humming that all day.
Hillary seems determined to keep a Republic in the WH. Nancy seems determined to put the Republics back in power in Congress.
Hmmm,
‘The Lakota Indians, who gave the world legendary warriors Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse, have withdrawn from treaties with the United States, leaders said Wednesday. “We are no longer citizens of the United States of America and all those who live in the five-state area that encompasses our country are free to join us,” long-time Indian rights activist Russell Means told a handful of reporters and a delegation from the Bolivian embassy, gathered in a church in a run-down neighborhood of Washington for a news conference.’
http://www.truthnews.us/?p=1343
Where are our strong women leaders?
Oh, right here at the Lake – Jane, Christy and Marcy.
I saw that yesterday and thought about our own OKkiddo.
i’m sure someone is going to come up with a fourth one i didn’t think of. :(
I don’t feel quite like crosstimbers, because I can’t support Clinton or Obama. I am somewhat undecided and conflicted, but I think at this point Edwards certainly seems to reflect my personal choice of policy than any other candidate, with Dodd as a possible choice if something happens to Edwards to dissuade me.
I really wish for a single payer health care plan that covers all. I think we need to go with our strengths, and need to take some of the profit motive out of medicine. I don’t like it when the Drs. have to play games with the insurance companies to advocate for their patients. For example, when I was getting out of the hospital after a quadruple bypass which was complicated by the fact that I have severe emphysema, my new pulmonary Dr. advised a home nebulizer, which I had been told the insurance company wouldn’t pay for. I mentioned that to him, and he said he would work something out. Nebulizers are not high $ items as I would call oxygen concentrators. I think they’re around $100. But the insurance company would rather have rented one than purchased one, even though one years rental might have come to more than the value of the machine new. It makes no sense! Insurance was paying $250/mo for an oxygen concentrator that would have cost about $1,300 new from the factory, on the hope that I would not be on their insurance for long enough to pay $1,300. They wound up paying more, and then when I was cut off, I finally bought a used concentrator on ebay for $250. It’s still working just fine about 2 years later.
Still, I don’t want to put the insurance companies totally out of business, but they’ve gotten out of hand and deserve a smack down, and we need to bargain for the best price on drugs. I like Edwards attitude about negotiating and the fact that he doesn’t think it can happen without a confrontation because, as he says, they’ll never give up the power they have without a fight. I agree. We need someone who will take these people to task and don’t become shrinking violets in the face of confrontation. That’s not what politicians are for.
Christy has a nice new post upstairs.
Sure, Tex; I’ve got a good idea what she’s talking about.
She’s prattling neo-moderate republican-lite shitspeak, while still trying to suck up to the Base as a hardassed sorta-kinda conservative.
JUST the candidate we need to carry us to a historic win next November.
P.S. Is that her husband standing beside her?
Hillary has gotta be out of her ever lovin’ mind standing next to Traitor Joe and talking Iran invasion.
Such arrogance is not lost among the voters.
And Peanut Butter…
Yeah, what up?
I’ll fb her too.
Hmmmm, do you think you might be reading more into this statement than is warranted?
It is campaign speak. Obama’s biggest liability, whether you like it or not, is his relatively skimpy CV. That doesn’t meant that he isn’t capable or that experience is all that matters. What it *does* mean is that there is going to be this HUGE mess waiting for us at the end of the Bush administration and it is going to be easier to handle if the person in charge is not undergoing on the job training.
I don’t know about war in Iran except that Iran is a dangersous country simply because of where it is geographically located in the world. It doesn’t need nukes to make a mess of western economies. And if it teams up with Russia, they could strangle oil and gas exports to much of the industrialized world.
Let’s keep some perspective here.
I’ve been there pretty regularly, and haven’t seen Busted at TRex’s place.
“Let’s keep some perspective here.”
You bet, Mr. Wolfowitz!
Victory in Afghanistan? I’m still waiting to hear what the objective of the latest invading horde of that beleaguered country is exactly. I suppose you could call it a victory when the objective is achieved. You could declare victory when you get the mark you wanted on an exam paper. But in the case of the U.S. in Afghanistan, there’s no known objective. So, victory is moot (as well as incompetent, immaterial, and irrelevant).
what is not lost on (D) politicians is the fact that the Axiom of Automatic support for the Least Worst is still strong, even amongst people who are deeply against current and further militarism in the Middle East on behalf of a certain feisty ally.
As long as the axiom holds, she could nominate Lieberman for VP (again) and she’d still be not quite as evil and stupid as Huckleberry Hound, and therefore ‘progressives’ would cast their votes in support of further neo-con depredations. what a deal!
Here’s “Tom Tomorrow”’s thoughts on Hillary: :o)
http://www.salon.com/comics/to…..index.html
In Turkey :-) More specifically, Ankara. The traditional thing to do at this time of year is to sacrifice a sheep, and distribute the meat to the less well-off – fairly gruesome – I live in a fairly secular area, so we don’t see much of it. (They also make something which bears a passing resemblance to haggis.)
The other Eid (at the end of Ramadan)is a bit less queasy-making…
Perception matters in foreign policy. The Soviets read JFK as weak and thought they could install and keep missiles in Cuba. Of the the three leading dems, it is fair to say that Hillary would be perceived as the toughest, and most likely to respond to provocations with force. In that light, her comments make a great deal of sense. Perhaps you need to drop the phoney lack of understanding of them.
Well, if you weren’t a Mutant Poodle, then maybe you could tape out the words on a keyboard a little easier.
Just think how Hillary’s speech writers must feel? They see that stuff day in and day out.
If she says we have to do something to ‘avert’ war, then that means it’s inevitable otherwise. That’s just a flat out lie!
In case you are lurky from Turkey hours later….I had friends from Ankara; Kamal and Aisha- nice peeps. Always wanted to visit Turkey. Here in the US, the meat thing is not queasy making at all. One may pay the halal butcher for whatever beast and voila, sanitized for everyone’s giving pleasure-just like the supermarket.
Douglas, her comments make a great deal of sense if you support the bloody fuckup in Iraq, and the fact that she voted to authorize it, and has never apologized for doing it. :o)
Let her sink her own ship. The nuttier her spoutings the better. The more outrageous her campaign’s statements or claims the better. It sinks her and leaves us with either Obama or Edwards which is FAR better than being stuck with her.
I will NOT vote for her in a primary OR a general. Period.
Since Obama’s adviser Samantha Powers suggested that Hillary might use nukes if elected, I hardly see grounds for complaint.
And, for the record, Edwards has made the most hawkish statements on Iran in the past, has voted for stronger measures than Kyl-Lieberman; Obama’s article in the foreign affairs journal a few months back was much more hawkish than Hillary’s. Based on Edwards’ categorical statement that Iran must not be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons, I don’t see why Hillary’s statement is so unreasonable.
Face, the next few weeks are going to feature a lot of hardball. Hillary’s in it to win, and so are Edwards and Obama.
Btw, Praedor’s attitude exemplifies that of many deluded non-Hillary supporters (deluded because they think there is a huge difference between the top three on foreign policy). Unlike Hillary supporters, who are all loyal Democrats who will support the nominee whoever wins, many Edwards and Obama supporters are threatening to stay home if Hillary is the nominee.
Go NADER!
… for a more reality-based take on the candidate’s positions on Iraq and Iran, read anything in this list of Eriposte’s articles http://www.theleftcoaster.com/…..php#011475
For instance, compare these excerpts from Clinton’s and Obama’s Foreign Affairs articles:
Can you tell which is Obama’s and which is Clinton’s? Which is more hawkish.
If you like, I can dig up Edwards saying that “all options are on the table” when it comes to stopping Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. If Hillary said that, you know people would be outraged. Edwards? He’s the “peace” candidate.
Give me a break. ALL THREE top candidates are hawks. Edwards and Obama are trying to convince people otherwise, but they haven’t fooled me.
One other item, for those of you who are impressed by Obama’s high-minded, idealistic opposition to the war in 2002. Exactly how strongly was he against the war in 2003? Well, let’s see… hmmm. His 2002 anti-war speech was taken down because… damn I can’t type the words without my fingers spasming in paroxysms of belly laughter:
Here’s what the man himself had to say!
Ooh, the “formal phase” of the war was over!! ROFLMAO! What about all those predictions of how the war would turn out? Did Obama decide in 2003 that he was wrong, only to change his mind again in 2005? What a principled, unwavering stand—-in support of his own advancement. Ugh.
Link for source of last comment:
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011314.php
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011525.php
The first one is on Iran; the second on the removal of his 2002 speech from his website.
Dear MarkH: I know one huge difference on foreign policy between Clinton and Edwards.
John Edwards deeply regrets his authorizing vote for an utterly-bullshit-based war in which hundreds of thousands of people have died, and has apologized for it a number of times.
Hillary has said she’d do it differently, if she had it to do again…which is exactly what some republicans hoping to excuse themselves, have cobbled up.
I will guarandamntee you that I can use about as much bandwidth listing the FACTUAL reasons why she doesn’t deserve support from democrats, as you used to try to defend her.
Would you like to see that? It’s too late to do it now, but I’ll start working on it, if you like. :o)
Hillary Clinton is a political disaster waiting to happen for ALL the democrats, not just we progressives. She is the last, best, hope that the GOP has for hanging on to the white house and retaking congress.
One more time; can you find anything on Edwards or Obama that is the equivalent of this?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories…..0694.shtml
Hillary is the ticket to defeat.
“pragmatic” devoid of principle, power seeking (D) strategists should smell the coffee on this and support someone else if they seek the perks of power.
otherwise lapsed (R)’s will ‘kneewalk to the polls to vote against her, and anyone with a shred of sincere antiwar sentiment cannot pull the lever for someone who will expand Bush’s disasterous agression to Iran.
Tanbark at 122. Does the British swearing add much to your post? Hillary makes a very plausible argument that she voted for the Iraq resolution based on Bush’s promises/assurances that he would continue the diplomatic route and the actions authorized by the resolution would be a last resort after all diplomatic efforts failed. That is not voting for the war. It is even less so than the Tonkin Gulf Resolution was an authorization for Johnson’s war. That vote authorized the immediate use of force against North VietNam because of their alleged attack on our ships off their coast. But most historians agree that LBJ distorted the facts of the attack and that he used the resolution as a vehicle for an all-out war never imagined by the overwhelming number of Senators who approved that resolution. When Hillary voted for the legislation in question the Bush administration was pursuing diplomatic efforts, however begrudgingly, so her vote was defensible within the context of those efforts. She’s going to win this thing folks. As Victorian women were told on the eve of their honeymoons, just lie back and think of England.