A fire broke out this morning in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building (the EEOB), which sits adjacent to the WH and houses a number of key executive branch offices, including the OMB and a number of national security personnel. CNN reports that the fire may have broken out in an electrical closet adjacent to VP Cheney's ceremonial offices and the offices of David Addington. (To our readers in the EEOB, please stay safe. Reports on CNN at this point are that the fire has been contained and may be out, but firefighters are still checking. UPDATE: Fire officially out, per CNN.)
Coincidentally, I'm sure, Addington (as Cheney's proxy and chief right hand man) is in the news -- again -- this morning as one of four WH lawyers who allegedly were involved in discussions about the destruction of those CIA interrogation tapes. Via emptywheel:
And it is in that context that I'm most interested in the scoop-we-already-knew the story reports--the news that David Addington, Alberto Gonzales, John Bellinger, and Harriet Miers all participated in discussions of the torture tapes. After all, use of compartmentalization to gain legal authority for legally dubious acts has the all the hallmarks of David Addington's work. So I think this story is as much about how these White House lawyers operated to ensure the destruction of the terror tapes as it is about who.
As to the implication that, if Gonzales and Addington were involved in the torture tapes, then so were Bush and Dick? I think this passage implies that Dick, at least, was part of the discussion.
One former senior intelligence official with direct knowledge of the matter said there had been “vigorous sentiment” among some top White House officials to destroy the tapes. The former official did not specify which White House officials took this position, but he said that some believed in 2005 that any disclosure of the tapes could have been particularly damaging after revelations a year earlier of abuses at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
Some other officials assert that no one at the White House advocated destroying the tapes. Those officials acknowledged, however, that no White House lawyer gave a direct order to preserve the tapes or advised that destroying them would be illegal. [my emphasis]
There are relatively few people who would merit the "top White House officials." Add in the consideration that those people would have a national security role, and you're talking people like Condi, Scooter, Stephen Hadley. And Dick Cheney. If not Bush himself. So at least some sources are out there saying someone in the White House was actively lobbying to destroy this evidence. (Incidentally, it might be worth mentioning that Alberto Gonzales implemented the email policy that resulted in millions of lost emails, so he has a history of advocating the destruction of evidence.)
CNN has a bit more, with an angle on Alberto Gonzales as well. And the LATimes has more on the destruction of evidence in violation of a court order potential in all of this. (I can't help wondering if that "former senior intelligence official" is John McLaughlin and/or George Tenet or a proxy thereof, and if this is part of the continuing WHIG v. CIA/Cheney v. CIA rumble, but it's a tangential question.)
After trying for months to pin all of this on the now-departed Harriet Miers via selective leaks to Isikoff and others (Marcy has, of course, been all over this.), the "WH" today shot back at the NYTimes report, demanding a retraction. But the demand has nothing to do with whether or not the WH-connected attorneys were involved in the discussions, but merely about whether or not the WH has ever said anything publicly about it. Let's parse Dana Perino:
“Under direction from the White House General Counsel while the Department of Justice and the CIA Inspector General conduct a preliminary inquiry, we have not publicly commented on facts relating to this issue, except to note President Bush’s immediate reaction upon being briefed on the matter,” stated White House Press Secretary Dana Perino. “Furthermore, we have not described – neither to highlight, nor to minimize -- the role or deliberations of White House officials in this matter.” (emphasis mine)
So the question is still wide open as to how involved the WH may have been in pushing destruction of the tapes. Good to know. Similar story on the WH line on this from the WaPo here. Jack Balkin nutshells it for everyone:
But all this is beside the point, which is not whether the White House has been misleading in its "public" comments over the past two weeks, but whether the White House has been complicit in crimes and other wrongdoing over the past several years. And on that question, what's most notable about today's Press Statement is that it does not deny the substance of the Times story.
The WH shot a poorly parsed, ham-handed non-denial denial out of the box first thing in response to substantive allegations, thus making the story an even bigger one by stepping into the fray. This is all so remniscent of the Cheney press push-back strategery on Joe Wilson's op-ed, isn't it? Take it away, Cathie Martin:
Enters talking points, and handwritten notes of talking points.
F When and how did you create this.
M Week of July 7, meeting with VP on the Hill, we had another staff meeting, so we were in on Capitol Hill. Talked to VP about press inquiries and reports related to Wilson matter. He dictated to me what he wanted me to say.
Published on board.
Not clear who authorized travel
Did not travel at my request
Apparently unpaid
Never saw document allegedly trying to verify
He was convinced Niger could not have provided uranium to Iraq but in fact they did in 1980s 200 tons under IAEA seal
No written report
VP unaware of trip, conclusions, until Spring 03
As late as October considered judgment was that SH [Saddam Hussein] had indeed undertaken vigorous effort to acquire uranium from Africa--according to NIE.
There's a question mark in the margin, F asks, did he dictate question mark.M I didn't know if I could use that (#8) because it was classified.
That's former Veep Press Secretary Cathie Martin's testimony regarding meeting with Dick Cheney at his offices on the Hill, to take pushback dictation against the Wilson op-ed directly from Dick Cheney on what the WH response should be. Got to ask myself whether there has been similar pushback dictation from Dick Cheney on the CIA tape destruction story -- especially with David Addington's name continuing to pop right up there in the mix of players. (Martin is now a press person at the Bush WH. Cozy.)
Addington has been Cheney's right hand and enforcer on torture policy all along, and you cannot divorce one from the other in terms of action in search of policy initiative and priority.
I remember that Martin testimony vividly, because it also included a lot of inside information on how the WH/Veep offices planted stories with the press (including the fact that Meet the Press was a good venue for them), and then vouched their own stories with surrogates calling to plant follow-up tips to reporters with whom the stories had already been seeded. And I distinctly recall the shock on the faces of a number of those reporters with whom I was sitting in the courtroom -- and wondering if they were all searching back through their minds to see if they were among the duped.
Emptywheel is getting that same WH panicky ham-handed over-response vibe as well. And I'm getting the distinct gut feeling that another shoe is out there waiting to be dropped. Much more on this as I get it...
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Lordy.
The Martins are such a lovely couple, aren’t they?
Yes, I know it’s a bit convoluted, but is there some festering turd of a policy in which Dick Cheney and his minions do not have a hand? Inquiring minds and all…
Those shredders get hot when jammed.
AND as someone else earlier mentioned, there’s the New Yorker profile which had a bit about a fire at Addington’s house several years ago…
They can’t possibly be planning to say anything the courts want were destroyed in this fire. . . .
just waiting…….
Any time I say “they can’t possibly” about this crowd, the answer, inevitibly, is “yes.”
No — they were all searching back through their minds to see WHEN they were among the duped.
The wiser ones among them were also likely looking ahead: “Who am I meeting with tomorrow, and what are they going to try to plant on me?”
Zip-PahDe-Do-dah
Zip pah0-de-ay
My -Oh-My What a wonderful day Mr Blue Bird on my shoulder
“(I can’t help wondering if that “former senior intelligence official” is John McLaughlin and/or George Tenet or a proxy thereof, and if this is part of the continuing WHIG v. CIA/Cheney v. CIA rumble, but it’s a tangential question.)”
Seems as if this particular White House has its own “deep throat.”
This all reminds me of that basic rule of thumb: “Don’t fuck with the Company.”
Bush is probably safe. Most likely he was out riding his bike when any discussions occured. Cheney doesn’t like having him around because it takes too much time explaining things to him. It’s easier to just pat him on the head, tell him he’s still the Decider, and let him go ride around for a few hours.
Like Food For Thought, can we consider this fire an Appetizer For Conspiracy?
Smgumby — As I said to Scarecrow earlier, it’s a good thing that Cheney favors those large, fire-proof safes for all his important documents for storage so no one can get at them, now isn’t it?
What kills me is that the major cable news channels are pushing the no evidence of arson line. Does anybody who has even the most tenuous connection to reality believe this shit anymore?
Hi Redd,
Glad to have you back- and commenting on what may become the lead story in Clusterfuck’s presidential biography. I agree- you can smell the fear about this one- and Clusterfuck’s “I don’t recall anyone ever telling me about this” is exactly what you would expect from this guy if things were closing in on him….
I am interested in whether that public comment removes the possibility of executive privelege claims on the parts of Gonzo et al. What do you think?
I sat on a jury this summer deciding a civil case about an insurance company suing a contractor for negligence for starting a kitchen fire.
And in whose house was the kitchen fire, you ask?
Tony Snow’s.
See that’s funny, cause I was just thinking that all the hard-drives in the safe overheated due to lack of ventillation. Good he we have back up disks. . . stored in the safe on top of the hard-drives…
Wasn’t there some other gooper prez who got into a bit of hot water about destroying tapes????? House Mill—-no– Millhouse—Uh DICK we used ta call him…
An odd and ominous repitition of history.
it’s a good thing that Cheney favors those large, fire-proof safes for all his important documents for storage so no one can get at them, now isn’t it?
You mean the ones whose doors were accidentally left open this morning?
That will self-combust upon command.
TOM CRUISE WORKED ON A LAW FIRM THAT WAS CONNECTED NAMED THE FIRM
And the documents themselves on top of the back-up disks, on top of the hard-drives, in the man-sized safe without ventillation, causing over-heating, causing a fire. . . nothing to see here folks!
Tony Snow’s.
Do’h!
Digg It Christy!
This from Salon today:
Emptywheel has updated her piece, btw, with a copy of the WH official press release on this. As she says, it’s awfully amusing to see a WH that relied so heavily on “unnamed source” rumor planting get their dander up about unnamed sources. *G*
From CHS @ 4
No. The answer is No.
Bush saying “I don’t recall anyone ever telling me about this” is believable since he is largely ceremonial in this Administration.
shredders overheated and fried the electrical wiring in that centuries old bldg. do you think the newly-deputized stasi, er, firefighters snooped around looking for signs of anti-american activity….
Further to my 27:
I left out the most important part:
(Same link as my 27.)
Bush saying “I don’t recall anyone ever telling me about this” is believable since he is largely
ceremonial in this Administrationbrain dead.Not that there was anything wrong with your version, - I just felt like it.
I have never heard of a politician saying “I don’t recall….” except when they were up to their eyeballs in guilt…so may it be with Clusterfuck.
OfT - the good news:
Two conservative Time magazine columnists are on their way out the door: Neither William Kristol nor longtime contributor Charles Krauthammer will be on contract with the magazine starting next month. Mr. Krauthammer confirmed the news to Off the Record, and a spokeswoman for Time said Mr. Kristol’s contract would not be renewed.
The bad news:
And according to two sources familiar with the discussions, Time is in negotiations with National Review editor Ramesh Ponnuru to sign him to a contributor contract.
http://www.observer.com/2007/k.....e-out-time
So, as I understand it, Dana Perino is saying that the NYT statement that the White House is more involved than it has acknowledged has to be false, because she hasn’t acknowledged anything. It’s beginning to look like there’s nothing behind that vacant expression.
rw — I don’t think this public statement about not making any public statements opens that door on atty/client privilege. But I’m open to argument if someone thinks differently on that…
YOUR TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE I CAN’T TAKE MU EYES OFF OF YOU
ITS DO SUNNY AND YOU DET THE PRIZE FOR BEING VERY FUNNY
Too many shredders, overloaded circuits … poof!
Will they allow investigators into the building?
(Actually, it reminds me of my favorite theory for the Dept of Commerce fires that destroyed much of the 1890 census: time-travelling researchers with lots of scanners overloaded the circuits while trying to capture the msising information.)
The Justice Department is bound by the President’s determination of the law….or something like that…which means that Bush and co-President Cheney told them to do it and that it was okay, because they said so.
The very idea of an electrical fire breaking out (and being permitted to rage out of control for even a minute) in one of the national capital’s most important buildings is absolutely f**king ridiculous.
The fire didn’t last oh, I don’t know, 18 minutes did it?
Focus on the other shoe, Christy. I think we know what it is, something like destruction of evidence ordered directly by Bush, but wait for it anyway.
Great post as usual, Christy! Sigh. I guess Hugh has his work cut out for him on this one. I don’t understand why they are so interested anyway. Pelosi has taken Impeachment off the table, and we don’t seem to have the votes for it anyway, since I don’t hear all that much outrage from the Rethug side of the aisle.
OTOH, Hugh has at least 282 offenses on his list. They describe different scandalous behavior of both people within the administration privately and in their capacity as members of the administration. Surely they could find several incidents of verifiable and chargeable breeches of the law in terms of Obstruction of Justice, Abuse of Power, Contempt of Congress, Destroying Evidence while Defying a Court Order to Preserve. There’s just way too much there, there. Then they wonder why we’re pissed!
hackworth — They’ve been doing renovations in parts of the building near that area for quite a while, per CNN. It’s a very old building and they’ve been updating a number of the systems in it — including sprinklers and electrical — for quite a while. Just FYI.
The NYT has updated their story a bit, to include the following, right after the “Spokesmen for the White House . . .” paragraph:
You’d think that the reporter would at least call Perino’s reply what it is: BS. “Careful readers will not that Perino’s reply speaks about the official public statements of White House officials. She does not deny that the events themselves as described in this paper ever took place.”
But don’t underestimate his him. He’s just as crooked as the rest of the gang, only stupider and vainer.
The very idea of an electrical fire breaking out (and being permitted to rage out of control for even a minute) in one of the national capital’s most important buildings is absolutely f**king ridiculous.
I dunno. Were there FEMA offices in that building? That could explain it.
Forgot the link to the updated story.
No evidence of wrongdoing…except that Cheney was smoking in the closet before he went over to the Oval Office and flicked the butts as close to the classified paperwork as he could them. /s
JoFish — I thought it was contained fairly swiftly as well, actually, based on the reports that I was watching anyway.
The crimes recorded on those tapes must have been much worse than the crime of obstruction. There can’t be even ONE person involved who didn’t know it would be obstruction, the discussion was on the word games to play with the judges order.
I hate to say it, but all this is almost moot any more. Impeachment is off the table (and likely couldn’t be completed before the next election anyway) so Bush can do as he pleases.
Boxturtle (Would like to see BushCo, et al, perp walked across the tarmac at the Hague)
Oops. HuffPost says the fire was in CHENEY’S offices.
Just. Holy. Cow.
Dana Peritonitis says that the Times inference is troubling—her argument is that since the White House has said nothing at all, it’s impossible that things could be worse than they said they were.
If Clusterfuck was DEAD- and no one in the White House said anything about his health- except for Cheney who said “he’s doin fine”, then Dana would complain that it was inaccurate to say that His Shrubbinesses health was worse than the White House has said it was.
Stock up on Popcorn!
Privilege won’t be able to stop this Investigation!
The longer it stays in the headlines, the louder the drumbeat will resonate…there’s a Reckoning a coming…
Didn’t Comey say something to Gonzo about “Feeling Really Stupid and Ashamed when This Secret Torture Memo comes back to You?”
Now, We know why Bush’s Dis-engenuous Torture Memos Always Insisted that “Everything was Legal” - because, anything “illegal” would have meant the Destruction of the Tapes was “Destruction of Evidence” and “Criminal Obstruction of Justice.”
I’m sure there’s a good explanation, probably involving a microwave, Cheney’s morning popcorn, and an innocent misfiling of tapes.
I scanned back through a lot of the Cathie Martin testimony that emptywheel liveblogged, and my notes on it as well as I was putting this together. I think I may have to do another look see on press manipulations she discussed — and try and put together some point by point on it as I get time.
We talked a lot about it while we were doing Libby live trial coverage. But it seems to me that the time may be ripe to revisit this.
You just made my morning, darlin’! OTOH, some other piece of trash will hire them in a heartbeat. :-(
The bad news…..people have been watching the destruction of the very last of ALL the evidence this morning.
This gang may have some SERIOUS troubles. Defying court orders and destroying evidence is pretty damned serious. If it results in alleged terrorists WALKING, it may not look funny at all.
Yep. It’s a historical building of some significance, and they have been restoring it.
Thanks Christy. On that note, I shall paraphrase an old Bushism from the reaction to the August 11 PDB. “They’ve covered their asses…”
LOL Crosstimbers — CNN was saying that Cheney doesn’t really use those offices. That they are largely for ceremonial purposes — photo-ops and such. Not certain about the Addington ones, that are allegedly nearby, though. But Cheney and Bush were supposedly meeting in the WH this morning when the fire broke out, so the popcorn theory may not hold butter…
His immediate reaction? Hmmm! Seems like one could easily squiggle out of that. “But upon examination of our records and due deliberation we have found that the President WAS BRIEFED.” The initial statement was a “firewall” (something the WH appears to need in real life) that would work up until one of those lawyers reveals that Bush was involved…then suddenly he “Recalls”.
Per Daily Kos:
The modernization of the EEOB:
Computer Facilities
Modernization of the EEOB includes the transformation of the existing structure into a state-of-the art facility, featuring a secure computer facility and secure conference rooms. These spaces provide secure areas for classified and unclassified data as well as confidential meeting space.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....875/424241
See my 27 and 32…*g*
Oooh, Froomkin’s gonna be a doozy today…
Might as well begin storing data in the old building before the construction work is finished, just in case data needs to be disappeared.
Local radio reported that Cheney was meeting with Bush at the time the fire occurred (to which I immediately mentally added “conveniently establishing an alibi for both of them.” *g*)
Yeah, I saw that. That’s part of what made me go back to the Times, to see what they were saying about it. I was surprised that the Times didn’t take her to task for her non-denial denial more directly.
Or maybe they’re just saving that for tomorrow’s paper.
It looks like the plumbers are back and have gotten a little careless with their soldering torches.
*In a related story, reports from the first firefighters on the scene noted the distinct smell of whiskey and gasoline and alsoloud music coming from the office of Vice President Dick Cheney.
-GSD
*Snark
The bottom line:
Why destroy the tapes?
Protecting interrogators’ identities is…Ridiculous. Try again.
So, why destroy the tapes?
D’Oh……
A plausible alibi is all they were lokking for.
Someone noted that this fire was already noted in Wikipedia and that the cause was stated to be electrical.
-G
Wonder if DAD will be talking about tis today? or is the written statement all we get?
Doris Kearns Goodwin was prattling on MSNBC about how historic the building is.
I wonder if she’ll be relived to learn that this was only a document fire.
Somebody check when that entry was made. Was it before the fire?
Once again Cheney attempts to destroy a building to cover up his crimes…
I hear Halliburton has already won the contract to rebuild the EEOB.
This must be some different nation’s capital than the one I live in. Nearly every part of the federal government, from buildings to computer systems, is ancient and decrepit (insert your own comment about “starve the beast” Republicans running the Executive Branch for most of the past thirty years.) While it’s amusing to speculate about this fire, and worth looking into because it’s Cheney’s office (his “ceremonial office,” according to WTOP), it’s only really surprising that there aren’t fires in these old buildings more often.
Okay. There goes my other theory involving quail hunting in the EOB.
quite convenient to say the least, and far to coincidental
it’s going to be their line but we are sure not gonna buy it
Hee! I love it!
“In your face, causality!”
- Professor Hubert Farnsworth
This is a non-statement.
Lord Cheney doesn’t consider himself part of the White House, does he? His ceremonial offices are in the OEB.
Of course Cheney ordered the destruction.
The real question is whether some intrepid intelligence officers surreptitiously made copies of the tapes.
What Redshift said.
With the push to cut govt spending in everything but defense, or at least to hold the line on it, often has meant that infrastructure maintainence has been cut — in many cases, quite deeply.
Adam Smith’s invisible hand is sticking it deep into our pockets, again.
Fed’s loan billions to banks.
-G
Breaking: Britney’s Sister a Slut.
You mean our Blue Texan is not really blue? *g*
Must have been those shredding machines overloading the circuits…old buildings, ya know. /s
I just love a good Futurama reference. If you could just work one in about the headless body of Spiro Agnew.
Hellfires of Hades followed Satan Chee-knee’s footsteps out of the containment unit this morning but were quickly pushed back.
The classics…they still work.
Why is anyone surprised at any of this. This is how fascist regimes operate. That Bush and his comrades are not in prison for treason and crimes against humanity shows what disrepair this former democracy is in.
Here’s Malkin’s take:
Fire near VP Cheney’s office sets off nutroots alarm: “Reichstag!”
So who would have predicted that the largest communist country in the world would be bailing out one of the great financial giants in the biggest crony-capitalist country in the world?
-G
Even very old commercial buildings must be retrofitted at some point with electrical service wiring and panel box to provide suffient amperage to run a modern air conditioning and heating system. All commercial wiring must be shielded in a metal or pvc conduit. This provides added fire protection as the wires themselves are already encased in a plastic sheathing. I’m not buying the official story.
Nutroots. That’s us, right?
OfT (again)
Jonathan Turley sees at least *six* possible crimes attributable to the WH re the destruction of the torture tapes:
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/....._1219.html
CNN reports that the fire may have broken out in an electrical closet adjacent to VP Cheney’s ceremonial offices
“smells like….sulphur”
could have started in a telephone bank, any pushpolling happening in Iowa today?
He only destroyed 18 1/2 minutes of one tape. This is many hours worth!
Poor Michelle, she must be studying history with Dana Perino.
-G
I think we’re “moonbats” also. . . . . .or is that somethin’ different?
Breaking: Malkin is a political slut.
Mao
GREAT ONE PUNAISE!
My understanding is that Judge Mukasey signed the search warrant