BREAKING, 9:35 a.m.: CNN reporting this a.m. that the White House is asking the NYT for a retraction of part of its report today that suggests four WH attorneys discussed possible destruction of the CIA tapes. Emptywheel has more here. We’ll post more on this as we get confirmation and details. The Hill reports (h/t Elliot) that the WH wants the Times to change a sub-headline that appears in the print version (but not on-line version):
At issue is the story’s sub-headline that stated: “White House Role Was Wider Than It Said.” The White House called this sub-headline inaccurate and demanded that it be corrected.
. . . .
US reporting on General Musharraf’s suspension of Pakistan’s Constitution and displacement of its Supreme Court focused on Musharraf’s desire to remain in office. Musharraf also claimed the Court had undermined his fight against terrorism. But today’s New York Times reveals that Musharraf also had the same motives the Bush Administration has in preventing their respective illegal detention programs from seeing the light of day or facing judicial scrutiny.
Today’s article by reporter Carlotta Gall reveals that in apparent cooperation with US CIA and other officials, Musharraf had, long before his recent emergency actions, arrested hundreds, perhaps thousands of Pakistanis and detained them in secret prisons without charges. Some of the detainees were then rendered by US agents into Afghanistan, other countries, or Guantanamo, where some still languish without charges.
Pakistan’s military and intelligence agencies, apparently trying to avoid acknowledging an elaborate secret detention system, have quietly set free nearly 100 men suspected of links to terrorism, few of whom were charged, human rights groups and lawyers here say.
Those released, they say, are some of the nearly 500 Pakistanis presumed to have disappeared into the hands of the Pakistani intelligence agencies cooperating with Washington’s fight against terrorism since 2001.
The US version of the role of the Pakistani Supreme Court has sometimes portrayed the Chief Justice as arbitrarily releasing terrorists. But the Times article reveals that the Pakistani Chief Justice began looking into the cases of hundreds of "disappeared" Pakistanis, forcing the government to reveal who was being held, where, and under what charges. And the judicial exposure was forcing the Musharraf government to secretly release the discovered detainees for whom no charges could be found so as to avoid further publicity and judicial scrutiny.
While Mr. Musharraf criticized the court as being soft on terrorists, court records show that Mr. Chaudhry was less interested in releasing terrorism suspects than in making sure their cases entered the court system.
He said at each hearing that his primary concern was for the families of the missing, who were suffering anguish not knowing where their loved ones were.
His main aim was to regularize the detention of the missing, not to free them, Mr. Siddiqui said. “Not a single person who was convicted was released on the Supreme Court’s order,” he said.
Detainees have been warned on their release not to speak to anyone about their detention, yet fragments of their experiences have filtered out through relatives and their lawyers. A few even appeared in court and told their stories, and it became increasingly clear that the “disappeared” men had in fact been held in military or intelligence agency cells around the country, often for several years without being charged.
[snip]
In some cases, detainees recounted that they had been interrogated in the presence of English-speaking foreigners, who human rights officials and lawyers suspect are Americans.
A United States Embassy spokeswoman said she could not comment on the allegations and referred all questions to Washington. A spokesman for the Central Intelligence Agency, Mark Mansfield, declined to comment on Mr. Rehman’s accusations, or on any specific detainees.
Sound familiar? A lawless government engages in unlawful arrests; people just disappear and are held in secret prisons for years, without charges; supporters of the law try to create access to the judicial system, but the executive does everything it can to prevent access to the courts; the system is designed to evade habeas corpus. And then when pressed, the regime sets up a secret, military court system with minimal rights outside the normal law:
As more and more such accounts have come to light, President Musharraf has fought vigorously to keep the details of Pakistan’s secret detentions hidden.
A week into emergency rule, he passed a decree amending the 1952 Army Act to allow civilians to be tried by military tribunals for general offenses. The tribunals are closed to the public and offer no right of appeal.
While Mitt Romney calls for doubling Guantanamo and demands Huckabee apologize for criticizing our President, we might ask both men to explain the ethical and legal distinctions between Pakistan under Musharraf and what used to be my country under the Bush/Cheney regime. The answers should reveal a lot. Cartoonist Lee Judge, KC Star, captures it well. (h/t Peterr)
And now we know why the Bush/Cheney regime had only muted criticism of Musharraf’s recent overthrow of Pakistan’s constitution. Dictators behave the same everywhere.



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Good morning Scarecrow.
whoa
what would the torture tapes really reveal about Pakistan?
Thanks for this, Scarecrow. Shocking similarities between the US and Pakistan in how we treat our secret prisoners. Hurts to type that phrase.
That Cheney runs Pakistan
That Musharraf is our very own Francisco Franco?
Good morning, Scarecrow.
Yes, sounds a lot like Chile and Argentina as described by Naomi Klein too. Milton Friedman’s ghost. Fascists appear to learn very well from one another.
This kind of info can’t surprise anyone. In a country that has rendered and tortured, in a country that choses not to protect its childrens health, in a country that refuses to protect its citizenry from the loss of their jobs and lets not forget that this is the country that is now knowlingly seperating parents from their children and leaving the children with , in many cases no adult care giver!………
Puleeze! All I can tell you is: You Ain’t seen Anything Yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well at least we won’t see the Chief Justice of our Supreme Court arrested. Seeings as how Chief Justice John Roberts doesn’t have the integrity that the Chief Justice of the Pakistani Supreme Court had.
Yes. And in Chile, Argentina, etc, there are still inquiries, Truth and Reconcilation Commissions, extraditions for trials, long after the regimes are gone. We’ll be dealing with these crimes for a long time.
Good morning everyone one. I see the NYT has a story that says there were several WH attorneys involved in discussions about the destruction of CIA tapes.
We are at the point where the federal judges handling these cases should be demanding major security — but by whom?
while we’re at it, i’d love to ask our candidates about president clinton’s rendition program.
You’re right about Roberts/Scalia, etc.
It’s also the lower court justices who are handling the trials that we need to be concerned about.
I was thinking this morning that maybe Reid and Pelosi have been told to behave according to Cheney’s rules. And that if they don’t, Bush will declare martial law. My “homeland”…
“It takes two ta dance the Texas Torture Two-Step Tango!”
That’s just the story that caught my eye this morning!
Scarecrow, I saw the article about WH lawyers involved in the tapes being destroyed. Hard to wrap your head around the fact that this is happening here.
That’s quite a list of people discussing the tapes for Bush not to have known…
The going theory around my house is that the Bushies have serious dirt on nearly all the dems courtesy of the network wiretapping and datamining & are using that to enforce compliance. I try not to think too much about what you’re thinking about…I need what little sleep I get.
Now I wonder who in that group wanted the tapes destroyed?
To the Firedoglake Staff: The print size is too amall for a 70 yr old peogressive like me to read Buck
Imagine the meetings taking place in the nation’s White House. Four lawyers sitting around arguing about destruction of evidence. They no longer care about retaining interrogation records that might have continued value as they gather more evidence, — assuming they ever were concerned about real intelligence. This is not about fighting terrorists; it’s about staying out of jail. No, they’re just arguing about how best to deal with the need to destroy the evidence that they did what they had previously denied doing. How can they get the CIA to do it, without getting their finger prints on the destruction order? What should they get Harriet to say to the CIA counsel who keeps trying to pin this on the WH? What should they do with the CIA counsel?
Where is the Bar Association?
Sounds like a conspiracy to me.
I’m on a PC, using Firefox. Hold “Control”, then hit the plus sign – enlarges the font for me…
Do you have a “make text bigger/smaller” option anywhere in your onscreen menus? Look around…
Command plus on a mac.
Now where’s the command key that magnifies our response to these criminals?
Buck — I have the same problem. You can change the print size, from your computer.
If you’re using a MAC, pull down the “VIEW” menu and click on “TEXT SIZE”
If you’re using a PC, there is probably something comparable. Just ask, and others here will help.
Conspiracy — exactly.
Swell. We’re “just like PAKISTAN“. Or are they just like us?
A new chicken-n-egg puzzle.
Sad, sad.
Re: BUCK
Interestingly, I can’t change the text size on this site either. I can adjust my PC in the View menu, but largest or smallest, on Firedoglake the size doesn’t change with the adjustment.
Nah, if it was a conspiracy it would probably be illegal.
Couldnt live with out that +
O/T, Cbl wants you to know that she misses chatting withall of you but she is reading the posts and threads on her phone. No comments allowed.
Fine. They don’t want to go to jail for authorizing torture? Then they can go to jail for obstructing justice.
This is all such bullshit. I mean, I remember how I was just horrified on 9/11 beyond words. And in the days and weeks after, watching the news every night and checking the paper and on-line every morning to see if we had gotten that prick Bin Laden. Um, I checked today. We haven’t. What is it? Over 6 years of rounding up people and beating the piss out of them in the hopes of getting information. Has anyone in the administration ever reassessed – moral and leagal issues aside – if this is even working?
Thanks Mr.Cbl, convey our best wishes please. We miss her.
obviously they dont want to/cant…. catch the bogeyman,cause the endless war on terra would be over
Test…2..3
So with this and Hughs list, when do they start impeachment hearings? cricket, cricket….does the Congress have a logical answer?
Well, I don’t know if I agree that it’d be over. I just think they’re a buncha evil, incompetent fuck-ups.
Before leaving yesterday, The Guardian ran a story from Greg Palast (of East Timor fame) that looks like a fairly accurate description of what living in Britain is currently like (the most surveilled community in the EU). What is done there with surveillance, is being done in the US with communications, dog help the community the two are put together. It is an important read and should be highlighted here at FDL as well.
Scarecrow,
A companion story from the AP via Hartford Courant “France Convicts 5 Ex-Guantanamo Inmates”
Can I go OT for something? Because SCHIP was really impotant to me and I contacted a buncha people on it. Now the Democrats have pissed it away as a campaign issue and agreed to extend it until 2009 as the GOP wanted.
The GOP claimed victory. “It’s certainly another example of the Democrats caving to the Republican position at the eleventh hour,” said a spokesman for House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio).
Boner boy is right. Piss me off. Again. Fund the war. Cave on SCHIP. Why did we elect these clowns? Remember those happy, hopeful days back in January?
The KC Star’s cartoonist Lee Judge asks “Is this still America?”
OT is never OT on my early a.m. threads. It’s a time to bring in new stories of interest.
The “cave” on SCHIP is disheartening; they didn’t even make the Republicans vote again to sustain the veto, did they. The refunding at current levels was expected, ever since the first veto was sustained.
The Dems seem to be hoping no one is paying attention over the holidays.
Pakistan was a practice run.
egg came first, because breakfast comes before dinner. My daughter taught me this when she was four.
Fund the war. Cave on SCHIP.
All to the tune of Christmas music.
Tinsel & fruitcake don’t make for forgetting. Dems wrong.
Thanks, Peterr; I added that to the post.
Never before has a President and Vice President deserved to be impeached more than these.Yet our Speaker of the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi, is working behind the scenes with House Democrats, not to build a consensus for impeachment, but to do just the opposite. To keep others from succeeding in their effort to hold this president accountable by means of impeachment.With the FISA bill looming in the Senate, we have to show the leaders of the House and Senate that this is still our country. Please read the petition to replace Pelosi with a Democratic Representative who will bring impeachment proceedings to the floor.
http://www.petitiononline.com/…..ition.html
Please help me spread the word of this effort. We can either “ask” that they impeach, or we can tell them “impeach or get the hell out of the way.”
that’s a classic!
That has been the talk at my house all along.
“Imagining America”
It takes a fanatic with a strong proclivity to sadism and thuggishness to bring all this off. Such a person seems always in plentiful supply on this earth.
Yes there is no honor among theives. Must hold their feet to the fire.
Blue Christmas…all the paper tinsel and the fal de ral.
Blue Xmas…people trading gifts that matter not at all .
What I call
Fal de ral
Bitter doll…Fal de ral.
Lots of hungry homeless children in your own back yards
While you’re very very busy addressing
Twenty zillion Christmas cards.
Now Yuletide is the season to receive or to give or to share
But all you decent do gooders rush around and rant and rave and loudly blare
Merry Christmas…I hope yours is a bright one
But for me it bleeds.
– Miles Davis
WH is asking for a correction of the NYT story. They want a retraction on the part that suggests there was widespread discussion about the destruction — CNN reporting on this now.
So now the WH, a week before Christmas, is focusing attention on the NYT story that they considered destruction of evidence, and despite the refusals to discuss the matter — see Perino, they’re now discussing the matter when it suits them. This will be the lead story all day.
Urgent: Can anyone find a link to a story on the WH asking for the NYT to retract it’s story.
Yes and Friday they will hear evidnce on the tape destruction. The four including Addington and Miers (who Bush wanted on the Supremes!) ordered the destruction against legal advice. These people are pissing their pants and the brown stains are showing. T’Won’t be long before things come undone. Za Za always said I don’t lie cause I can’t keep it straight. Don’t you just luv the Hungarians yah Solidarity! Bring it on. Frog march ‘em down the Aisle, Yikes can we Impeach yet? Please. Are tropies allowed? It is unraveling awfully fast. We need to enlarge the legal staff. Call the ABA and the rest of the lawyers ti help this is a constitutional crisis.
searching………..
So now the WH, a week before Christmas, is focusing attention on the NYT story that they considered destruction of evidence, and despite the refusals to discuss the matter
Translated WH – “Trust us – we knew nothing about it – Harriet who? Abu who? David who? Can’t talk about it – but we knew nothing about it – trust us – it’s not like we pay attention to anything anybody else says – hell, you know that”
Caw, Caw, Scarecrow, Great post! Well, they said they wanted to make countries in the middle east to behave more like us. Just goes to show, be careful what you ask for.
I found this in The Hill
Love you man Miles the Master every note was a symphony with him MJQ. Oh man the the hypocricy so thick. WOW
Which time?
coming up on CSPAN3 at 10:00 am
JUDICIAL NOMINATIONS
Deputy. Attorney General Nominee Filip
On Wednesday, Senate Judiciary chairman Sen. Pat Leahy (D-VT) will hold a full committee hearing on the nomination of Mark Filip, a federal judge in Chicago, to become the Deputy U.S. Attorney General. The Committee will also look into the Justice Dept.’s investigation of the CIA interrogation tape-destruction case.
link to feed for CSPAN 3
Thanks for being tolerant of the OT intrusion on your great and impotant peice.
The position of the Dem “Leadership” is “okay, we suck, but it’s not so bad because if there’s a Dem president in 2009, maybe something can get done then.”
What about the people who will fall through the cracks between now & then?
This just underscores the mantra – more and better Dems. We just didn’t have enough good Dems on this.
Here’s the story:
http://thehill.com/leading-the…..12-19.html
Is this the story?
Bush Lawyers Discussed Fate of C.I.A.Tapes
If so, there is no subhead, but the second paragraph reads,
WH executive office building seems to have smoke pouring out of it… I’m guessing burning all those tapes and papers got out of control.
Eisenhower Exec Office Bldg, next door to West Wing – is burning – film on MSNBC
there is a fire in a westwing office building….wonder what is going up in smoke
Dunno about the Perino comment, but there seems to be a fire at the old Executive Office bldg.
Thanks, bigbrother! It’s been going through my head so I thought I’d post it here…
So, according to The Hill link, the NYT story *originally* had the sub-headline “White House Role Was Wider Than It Said” which is now gone. Wonder what chimp threatened ‘em with?
there is a fire in a westwing office building….wonder what is going up in smoke
guess shredder repairmen don’t work during the holiday season…
cheeeeeny’s office…tooo perfect
Yes, the conflagration seems to be due to the extreme temps generated by a blaze of CIA tapes.
Oh DAD.
guess # 1 about 10,000,000. +/- e-mails?
guess # 2 dick-dick’s 4th branch yule-tide records
guess # 3 the pardoned turkey
Not much info yet, but a pix.
Fire Breaks Out at Old Executive Office Building
aka “the OEOB – Old Executive Office Building”
Channel 4 in DC has live video.
Man what a coincidence. Just when the Judge wanted that info. Nothing will stop the devils.
BushCo is such a trashy novel.
Would be kinda funny if a shredder did overheat tho.
started in an electrical box next to vps office, unbelievable…..
plus a few of the copies of the tapes that were supposedly destroyed
I have no doubt in my mind there are copies running around of those tapes that were “destroyed”
btw
I heard on the lionel show just a few minutes ago one of the lawyers involved in suing the government for spying
he says if congress passes the fisa bill with retro active immunity that very same day they will challenge the constitutionality
it can’t possibly be constitutional, it denies not only ‘due process”, it entires any process
The sub-head line the WH wants retracted is not in the on-line version; but it is in the PRINT version, including the New England edition that I get. See the updated “Breaking” at the top of the post.
If the smoke is coming from Cheney’s office, this will be interesting. the cover story at CNN is that it developed in “an electrical closet.” Right. The WH now has a public relations nightmare.
As Huckabee would say, “Merry Christmas, everyone!”
A fire at the building for old executives must be presumed suspicious and terrorist related and only highlights the need for retroactive telecom immunity.
get this, a caller came up with a VERY playable theory on republicans and why they continue to believe the president;
he said something along the order;
“suppose you were told your father is a serial killer, you would do whatever it took to deny that knowledge no matter how the fact stares you in the face”
I agree
this is also a simpler way to explain cognitive dissonance
One does have to wonder if the subhead was originally in the online story though. Probably no way to ever know. Good to hear it’s in ink though.
The sub-headline is in the print version, not the on-line version.
Ah! Overheated wiring from so many shredders and furnaces plugged into one wallsocket.
the cynic in me “…..fire next to vice presidential ceremonial office. which stores……”
The subhead was probably based on this:
And maybe this:
Headline are not usually written by the authors of the story, and the one that is in the paper seems like a reasonable shorthand for this part of the story. More smoke to hide the truth.
And here’s my guess: someone (Addington) said: “you could do it but it would be wrong”. Wink, Wink, Nudge, Nudge.
Some more on the WH fire.
Smoke Pours From Building Near White House
Wonder what “ceremonies” they’re performing in there!
burning the rest of the Constitution?
that’s really hard for some people to do – when their problem is that they can’t read the screen.
it’s possible that buck wasn’t asking how he could adjust things on his end, but instead was requesting an adjustment by fdl. i suggest this may be the case, since we haven’t heard back from buck.
… and i doubt he is alone. i feel horrible for people who are no longer able to read fdl and are now missing out. they must be so frustrated.
even though my browser can increase the font size (and i know how to do it) – something we can’t assume is true for all readers – it’s still a real struggle for my eyes. i just can’t read as much as i’d like without wicked headaches from the strain. perhaps this makes me more understanding of others having even worse trouble.
may i respectfully request a return to the old font size and style? it was 13 point verdana for the post and 12 point for the comments on the old wordpress template. very easy to read – the text and background colors were helpful too.
of course the fonts are not mine to choose. and i don’t mean to imply my preferences should matter… not my site. but i do ask, for some understanding for those of us who are having trouble, beyond the expectation that we should figure out how to change our browser settings and that will fix everything – especially for those who aren’t going to be able to read through a long thread to find responses and suggestions and even for those of use who’ve made all the adjustments and are still struggling.
thank you.
Blue Texan is upstairs
tapes
We can be thankful… apparently that baby is hard to burn!
Clearly the fire is an Islamofascist terrorist plot. We must attack Iran.
This will be good for Republicans. :)
msnbc is now saying that some people could have been working on top secret documents and hopefully they secured those items
And we must have retroactive telecom immunity.
It’s too small for me to read hour after hour, so I use to increase the print size on my screen.
Try that. Every browser ought to have some way to increase print size.
Hey, it took out my Control-Plus key stuff.
Hold down your Ctrl Key and then press the Plus key.
That ought to increase print size for viewing.
Kinda makes ya think the torturing doesn’t really help.
Maybe we should go around Karachi and ask politely.
Nah. They’ve got to leave that, so Bush will have something to spit on every day when he goes into the office.
A ceremonial office huh. Does that mean he’s a ceremonial V.P.?