Remember, Glenzilla writes a non-subtle petition to Harry Reid you can sign here.
Anyone listening to these feeble gasbags on the floor of the senate would conclude that this whole thing is some big debate about whether or not to require warrants on foreign-to-foreign calls routed through the US, something absolutely no one disagrees on. That and the foundations of democracy would virtually crumble if these poor, put upon telecoms who engaged in domestic spying, violating the rights of millions of Americans, might not be allowed to do a Scooter Libby and skate for their crimes.
‘Cos they’re great patriots, they love their kids and they’re good to their dogs, I guess.
I’m now clear on the definition of "bipartisan," though. It means any time the Democrats give in and help the Republicans do what they’re going to do anyway.
Since Dodd will be reading some blog reader comments, I thought I’d throw up a few of ours:
The Constitution is a cornerstone of American democracy, why do you think some of the leaders in both parties are affraid of preserving it, and demonstrating to the world that America is strong and confident that our liberty and freedom can endure any challenge from the inside and out outside?
Dear Senator Dodd:
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking on this essential issue. I am a New York resident, and I have exhorted Senators Schumer and Clinton to do everything in their power to support your filibuster of the Intelligence Cmte version of the FISA bill. This is a key moment in the constitutional history of our Republic, where we as a nation either repudiate or embrace the rule of law. Allowing telecommunications companies to avoid the consequences of committing felonies while reaping massive profits rewards corporate lawlessness at the expense of ordinary citizens.
I commend you for standing staunchly on the side of embracing the rule of law, and I dearly hope that you succeed in your efforts. In these acts, you are a true patriot and defender of our Republic.
Best regards, PhysioProf
LS:
Dear Senator Dodd and other Senators who are standing up for the Constitution;
My family and I are so proud of you!! We pay our hard-earned money to the telephone companies for telephone service, not to assist in a program that spies on us without warrants. We pay our taxes to help support America, not to spy on us without warrants. While we support protecting this Nation from external attacks, we consider spying on American citizens without warrants to be a violation of the 4th Amendment of the Constitution, and an internal attack on the citizens of this great Nation.
Clearly, the request for retroactive immunity is needed, because there must have been illegal activities perpetrated on us by our government with the complicity of the very telephone companies that service us. The Administration and the telephone companies must be held accountable, no matter how painful it is or our Constitution really is becoming worthless. We are a nation of laws not men. Therefore, you, together with the other Senators that stand up for America are true heroes!!!
Congress:
No retroactive immunity for telcoms!
No prospective immunity for telcoms!
No basket warrants!Signed: A Patriotic American family that wants its country back!!
PS. Please make sure that at all times, the United States of America is referred to as The United States of America and never, ever, ever as
The FatherlandThe Homeland. It causes WWII War Veterans in our family to roll over in their graves.
I think standing up for our rights as Americans is basic to being a good American. We cannot so easily slide into giving up our rights one by one to governmental overreach and expect to remain a democratic Republic. If we do give up our rights, before we know what happened, we will have become a dictatorship. Senator Dodd and the Senators who are standing with him are doing the heavy lifting necessary to maintaining our Republic as it was founded and not giving way to those politically inclined toward creating a dictatorship, and we citizens thank them very much. As for any Senator that doesn’t, you too will be remembered. Thank you for revealing your true colors, Senators, because what you do here is the proof of who you are.
Thank you Senator Dodd for your patriotic service to our country.
I see this FISA battle you are waging as a clarion cry for our country to return to the rule of law. I am not asking that the government abandon surveillance. I am only asking that the government abide by reasonable laws and allow appropriate levels of independent oversight so that we the people can be assured that the powers which we vest in our intelligence community are used for the purposes for which they have been designated. Please make it clear to anyone listening tomorrow that the Senate Judiciary Committee version and House version of the FISA renewal do not weaken our surveillance capability in any way but instead improve the Constitutionally mandated oversight function which has been missing.Without law, we have no government.
You would all do better than Barbara Mukulski, who appears to have disinterred the scribes of Hee-Haw to author her floor speech. Our FISA laws were apparently written back when Blackberries were "something you put on your breakfast cereal."
Oh what a kneeslapper.
These people should not be legislating anything more technical than a sliderule.
Related posts:





Spotlight








Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

Thank you Jane!
Jane, you rock!!
Dodd’s on fiyah.
Frankly, I think a even a sliderule’s too technical…
Hi Jane.
By gum! Fighting back is energizing! Woo Hoo! Of course it helps to listen to Sen. Dodd. He’s absolutely on fire!!!
I’ve had CSp-2 on the toobz all afternoon (ThymeWannah insists we buy digital to get it on the telly now, but we’re not daunted, heh)
Every time a speaker comes to the floor, I listen off & on. Then I fire off a response to whatever they said: kudos for some, sharp stick in the ribs for others, some I’m at a loss to approach (boobyhatch), but others (wannah) I wade forth & respectfully smack upside the head.
Don’t know if it’ll help, but here’s copy of the e- to Wanna, fwiw.
. . .
Thanks Jane et al at FDL.
This is nothing less than a Constitutional crisis. We have bush apologists hiding behind the bloody flag to protect his ass. Impeach the bas**rds it is the only way to stop them.
me too!
great letters – very impressive.
I don’t think she could manage a ball and a bag of jacks.
Roll call? Whats happening?
yep.
He is clearly disgusted with even some of his own past votes….. the slow and steady erosion of our country and our rights.
“No more blowing through the bill”
Folks in Iowa and New Hampshire and all early primary and caucus states, please note Senator Dodd and his actions today! THIS is what leadership looks like.
Woot!!
After the cloture vote this morning Kobe was in a shitty mood and he took it out on the neighbor’s lawn.
Forcing the Sens to the floor. They don’t like that as they are trying to have cocktail weenies with their financiers.
Looking for quorum…. can’t vote if there isn’t a quorum.
I am so mad at Mikulski I could spit nails! I called her office today telling her she needs to support Senator Dodd. (BTW, Jane, small spelling correction on her name…it’s Mikulski.)
I am really liking Dodd right now.
Maybe this would be a good time for senators to start reading bills and amendments before voting.
Barbara Mukulski is teh living, breathing example of what is wrong with the Democratic party. The idea, “Give me Liberty or give me death,” is amended, in her case to “…unless it’s death by an unidentified white powder that someone sends in the mail. ‘Cause if that happens, then give me the liberty to hitch up my petticoats and head on back to the Junction!”
There is a systemic issue with the Democratic Party and it centers around the fact that very few have any guts.
The issue on telecom immunity is very simple: Accountability.
Either you’re for it, or you are against our Constitution.
707!
Ding!! And their afternoon liquid lunch…*g*
Kobe’s a pretty good sized dog isn’t he? Seems Kobe might be leaving your neighbor some big messes to clean up. Although no where near the mess that is being created right now in our country.
They’re just rebuilding a quorum, this is a roll call and not a vote.
Signed the petition to mr. harry. Hard to believe he is from Searchlight, Nevada. That was a tough old town at the end of the world. What a wimp.
Bush doesn’t need a Republican Congress, he has the Democratic one.
Seconded!
Dodd sure kept my attention. being one of those network/computer people I truly understand the extent to th vacuming of all data at all the major tie points lets big brother scoop up everything transmitted on all means of communication. Very scary and I suspect will eventually (I hope sooner than later) be found to be illegal!
Aint that the truth
Oh oh here is Orin the Mormon
Hatch is accusing us of fear mongering!!!!
Look in the mirror!
Hey there – anybody know how many signatures on the Greenwald/FDL petition?
Ooooohhhh!!! Hatch says “partisan blogs” are spreading misleading information.
Not this one.
OMG…blogs are spreading misleading fearmongering conspiracies…Orrin Hatch.
We are irrational….right!!!
uh oh, Orrin is saying that malicious left wing blogs are stirring up trouble again.
Excellent! Or a ball OR a bag of jacks.
Also, after listening to Senator Warner I decided to check out the pay of the poor telecom ceos. Not shocking to discover they’re making a little more than minimum wage…
fearmongering on some blogs which spread fear of govt conspiracies. Do not forget our govt did not kill thousands of people on 9/11
Woo hoo! Orrin Hatch going after blogs.
Benjamin frickin’ Franklin on line 2 for Senator Hatch.
I don’t suppose anyone is interested in how sick I am of people invoking the sacred memory of 9/11?
Also the preacherly tone of so many of these gasbags.
Parsin’ Orrin’s just referred to “imaginary government conspiracies”, how convenient, it’s the real ones that concern me.
I’m not overly convinced of that. I have lot’s of questions about what really went down on that fateful day.
Then in the same breath, Orrin lists a crapload of terrorist attacks. Who’s the fear monger now?
Hatch trying to scare us with the spectre of scary expanded courts.
Those bastards!
I sent faxes to all the senators on a list that Digby put together.
One thing that would be nice is to have money on THE OTHER SIDE talk.
The Telcos will spend 20 millions to block them being sued for 200 million.
Maybe the people who will get the potential 200 million in fees might want to support our fight.
We are forces of chaos and anarchy
Everything they say we are, we are
And we are very proud of ourselves
up against the wall mofo’s
Who is in the SenPrez. spot, Stabenow??? Looked utterly clueless as to whut-ta-dew when Dodd wound up his glorious rant.
geehaw, even i know how to deal wit a quorum caw.
Oh ick. Hatch is back. complaining of others pandering to fear-mongering & sssssslllllliiiiiding smoothly right into -um- fearmongering!?!
HOW can he DO that with a stait-laced-face?!?!?
mutemuteMuteMUTE!!!
Hatch is scare mongering…. same old shit different day.
Ya makes it harder to spy on the boogie man … Hatch get a life! He is lying as usual he needs aides who wi9ll tell the truth!
Maybe just a bag? Nahhh… she had best sit quietly with her hands folded in her lap ; )
Good!!! They are on the defense from blogs!!!!!
We are “attackers”!!! So…if Dodd uses the blogs…he’s a government attacker????!!!
His aides must have just read this post and realized Dodd’s gonna quote blog comments. Gimme a break.
Next thing you know…we will be the terrrrrrists.
Orrin Hatch, you are a disgrace to this Nation.
I have not been able to watch much of this today or keep up with the comments.
Is Hatch the poster child for the anticonstitutionalists?
God bless Senator Dodd for trying to save the Constitution of the United States of America.
It’s been a while since I’ve heard soooo many 9/11s and terrists … and the poor Senators were sooo scared on 9/11
yegads – so few grownups in the whole bunch!
I have been watching this while also trying to duck tape my head together for fear of exploding…meltdown in progress
I blame the blogofascists.
-G
AAh, the bloggers, we’re evil (especially me because I take no prisoners and don’t care about being polite) we want to rule of law to be upheld.
Orrin Hatch is on me “drink to his obituary” list.
only one of dozens.
“I find these scare tactics offensive!” Hatch.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Then stop USING THEM. Jerk.
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
B. Franklin
Hatch more lies… all data swept up data is analyzed
First they ignore you…
Phoenix Air America local show started right out of the gate two minutes into the program hits on Chris Dodd’s efforts to protect the Constitution. Hitting all the FDL points.. ;)
We have lots of diaper changing to do! And while we’re at it, we need to find grown-ups to elect to take the place of most of these clowns.
Hatch sounds shrill. Who’s putting the thumbscrews to him?
these scare tactics not only ridiculous but offensive. insult the fine people here a slap in the face. give me a break. (oooh)
Orrin Hatch! Prove that you are not spying on innocent Americans. Prove it!!!
How can Sen. Hatch accuse liberal fearmongers of inciting the public with conspiracies about a big bad government . . . and in the next breath resort to the very same kind of fearmongering . . . warning us how danger from terrorists is “just around the corner.” WHAT hypocracy!
fear not, intrepid leader, he just got dinged by my “whine meter”.
HAH! Go home hatch. You’re so over…
Would there even be a debate if it wasn’t for the immunity issue here, or am I missing something?
He’s a fruitcake.
His telecom “masters”???
Fear monger? Pot, this is kettle, Orrin. Next thing you know he’ll tell us the rule of law only applies to lying about blow jobs.
Everything Orrin Hatch says is a lie or a smear, including ‘the’ and ‘and’. His face should be in the dictionary next to ‘disingenuous’.
It’s not that ‘Innocent Americans’ will be ‘targeted’. It’s that everyone gets sucked into the data vacuum.
But, y’know, invoke the terrorist bogeyman and wave the bloody sheet.
Do our allies understand that if we lose this battle, net neutrality is next?
then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then . . .
we win.
I’m ready to win some!
lol, i know Raven @68 :)
Hatch starts quoting the boogie men. Hey Orrin, did you get those quotes by tapping a US citizens phone or email without a warrant?
“I object to fearmongering. Now look at the scary terrorist man who wants to kill your babies!”
Oooh oooh, I know the answer! I know the answer to that one!!
How much money has Hatch accepted from telecoms? Or is he just doing this out of his hatred for the Fourth Amendment?
otchmoson December 17th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
Yep. It’s like the words that they said two sentences before don’t count.
You just want someone to stand up and say, “Do you even LISTEN to yourself?? You said the opposite of what you said 10 seconds ago.”
why, i believe that would be ewe
Was it FDL that sent a bunch of rubber stamps to Congress? Maybe we should send the Rethugs and Mikulskis in Congress teddy bears, since they are all so freakin’ afraid of the dark.
OT Did I hear right? Did Bob Kerrey talk about Barack Hussein Obama with repeated references to his Muslim father and attending a madrassah? Another acolyte of Clinton showing his dark side?
Hatch is lying I can’t believe the fear mongering!
I signed the petition to good old harry, but maybe he was being sly and making this all happen to show the public what rubber stamps the the thugs are.
Ran out of nerf balls, external outrage drive full and locked up, leaking around duck taped head … mute mute mute that audio….. Orrin STFU
I was surprised at the talking point for almost every GOP senator was that the problem is the fringe political elements. Gee I feel so powerful.
Note to self.. Send a certain neighbor a pooper scooper for x-mas.
BRILLIANT!
I wasn’t as eloquent as the remarkable commenters here, but I did sign the petition, and it’s already bounced from several Senators because I’m not a direct constituent. Which really ticks me off, we’re not talking about pork projects here, we’re talking about the basic rights of all citizens to be secure in their persons, papers and communications, and that the government has to get a warrant to breach that privacy.
I just listened to Hatch for 2 minutes. I need a pepcid.
And the right to interfere with the private medical decisions of American Citizens, of course. Laws are there for a reason, damnit, and blow jobs and right to life issues are it! Period!
This will provide great fodder for Dodd!!!! How dare you call American citizens who you are spying on, fearmongers!!!
phred – late one nite this week, we thought of sending barf bags – we are sick of their spinelessness.
hands over eyes, audio on mute….. is the little man done yet?
Hatch isn’t motivated by money. He’s motivated by his utter shamelessness, and willingness to argue himself into a pretzel to serve the Party.
The vote for cloture was overwhelming. Can anyone explain in simple terms why that doesn’t mean that this is all futile and this bill is going to be voted on and pass? I tried to understand the detailed explanation on DKos, but ran out of steam.
Please everyone refer to yourselves as “American Insurgents” or Constitutional terrorists because the way this congress is acting we are certainly not considered respectable mainstream citizens.
Whatta ya expect from a guy who knocked over young children and old women to embrace Joe Lieberpud?
-G
Orrin doing the “TSP is X” feint to avoid talking about any of the other programs. Pathetic, transparent, been there several times before with Gonzo et al.
Yes it was FDL. People lined up and sent in money.
Good idea.
As usual great comment for the hatch man. whish I thought of it!
Then they can use the telecoms to root us out after declaring us enemy combatents.
-G
He has switched the subject from immunity for Telcos to bloggers don’t want to stop terrorism from killing their fellow citizens….bloggers are stupid and uninformed.
“December 7″?? PEARL FRICKIN’ HARBOR day?
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.He’s all over the place…very poor organization of his little “bloggers are the problem” speech.
Unbelievable.
Okay, sometimes the obvious takes a while to sink in here at chez Fern – this actually has very little to do with telco immunity – it’s about executive branch immunity. Right?
That is it in a nut shell. start the bonfires! burn that constitution
Orrin Sntatch is a lying sack of shit,and why has he not exploded from hot air that permeates his body
Hatch keeps talking about a pure partisan vote out of the Judiciary committee – didn’t both Specter and Grassley (I think) vote for the Judiciary version of the bill?
Sounds good to me — barf bags to the capitulating Dems and teddy bears to the ‘fraidy cat Rethugs, and a big bunch of flowers to Dodd and his pals for their bravura performace today. Don’t want to leave anyone out at the holidays and all ; )
Bipartisanship? Got it, Orrin. The Democrats on the Intelligence Committee sit up, lie down, roll over, and beg much better than the Democrats on the Judiciary Committee.
Hey they are working over time! Do They paid OT?
Bill Nelson D-FL thanking and complementing Rockefeller and Hatch and agreeing with the bipartisan effort to make a FISA bill. (he talks funny)
That’s why I love this place — thanks for the reminder, my memory tends to be a bit dodgy.
A new Chicago Tribune/WGN statewide survey of likely primary voters in Illinois (conducted 12/9 through 12/13) finds:
Among 500 likely Republican primary voters, former Mayor Rudy Giuliani edges out former Gov. Mike Huckabee (23% to 21%) in a statewide primary; former Gov. Mitt Romney trails at 14%, Sen. John McCain at 12%, Former Sen. Fred Thompson at 11%.
Among 500 likely Democratic primary voters, Sen. Barack Obama leads Sen. Hillary Clinton (50% to 25) in a statewide primary; former Sen. John Edwards trails at 7%.
What if Huckleberry becomes the gooper nominee—what then? Read something this morning that he’s getting huge support from “home schoolers” and other assorted right wing religious zealots- Rudy the city slicker serial adulter and wife abuser vs. the Baptist minister from Arkansas….funny as hell.
Wall St. vs Main St. and the gooper party is about to go up in flames.
Perhaps the 4th Amendment has in fact been rendered “quaint” by technology and the current exigencies of “Terrism.” But, let’s have that discussion openly sans the legions of red herrings and 50 ft tall strawmen.
Bill Nelson D-FL, “Can’t we all get along?” (AKA give the telecos immunity)
Woohoo our local Air America has put the links to sign the petition to Reid on their website. Talking about it on the air now.
Sam Sedar will be on KO tonight to talk about today’s events in the Senate.
well, how about pictures of teddy bears (they can be pricy)
Schumer voted Yea on cloture. That really pisses me off!
Perhaps the 4th Amendment has in fact been rendered “quaint” by technology and the current exigencies of “Terrism.” But, let’s have that discussion openly, sans the legions of red herrings and scary 50 ft tall strawmen.
The one facilitates the other, by ensuring that all of the ‘no, really, it’s legal’ memos never make it into court.
One thing that’s clear: seniority on the Intelligence Committee is corrupting. Getting to share the spooks’ seekrits compromises one’s ability to protect civil liberties, and I’m sure the rosy glow of power it brings has something to do with that.
Bingo. Though they would probably say it’s mainly about reversing past erosion of the President’s Article II powers, especially during wartime; any possible cover that may provide for any possible illegal acts is whollly coincidental and worthy of not their comment.
I leave it to you to evaluate that claim.
we can send them binkies instead.
I haven’t seen a long-shot on CSPAN-2 showing how many People are in the Senate. This morning, it was very empty.
Could it be that there are more people Here watching and listening than Senators on the floor.
This is crazy.
Bill Nelson D-FL… (he talks funny)
He talks like a Republican.
Hang on – now he says he’s against immunity – except for the period of “the horror” of the aftermath of 9-11.
That’s workable, Senator. Gawd, Sit Down!!
too funny!
Been watching all day PST time This should be required watching for all citizens! It has been great to watch what our fore fathers put together! Small victory for open government that we can watch this!
I love the comments… democracy at its best!! Every here gets his/hers say! Thank you FDL and all
anyone else catch the early part of hash’s 1st rant on camera in teh afternoon?
HILARIOUS little spot in footage ripe for yootoob: wherein stentorial hash was in mid-super-size-RANT, & totally lost his place in the printed copy. Nebber saw a distingwished stentorial fubblerblub so entertaining in me life. He was frantically darting all over the page, flipping out lil’ bits of wrong sentences, tumbling all over eachother.
I wonder how he is on uneven parallel bars. Certainly the vault & balance beam should be locked away for a bit till the terrahmeister calms hisownself or seeks intervention.
Great letters, firepups! Keep them coming.
damn, nelson can count!
Bill Nelson is making the case that the Telcos acted illegally. He cited that FISA says you need a warrant to spy on Americans….now he’s saying that when clearly there is a law on the books that says you have to go to the special court to get a warrant, that right after 9/11 it might be understandable that if the Pres came and asked, but…but…that after 5 years…no one ever did….He’s bothered by it, and he’s bothered by the separation of powers issues…Article 2…check and balance…
Pres ignored everything and everyone.
Hmmm….surprise, surprise, surprise…..
nahant – i thought you were in MA
it may very well end up that the effort fails (indeed, while i would be disappointed, i would not be surprised) – but dodd et al. are not going to make it easy, they have said that they will fight every step of the way. if they do that and if there is enough help, they may be able to drag this out until senators want to go home for the christmas break. in other words dodd (with help from feingold and kennedy and wyden and others) can make the people who support this sucky law have to pay a price for it. the question then becomes – are tehy willing to pay the price?
but this all depends on dodd not giving up and on him getting enough help (hence our efforts to lobby our senators and ask for their assistance).
We have the genuine article right in front of us. Senator Dodd. Yet we are having to watch two, two-bit pols rough it out in the sandbox.
LS thanks for interpreting!
Article II. It’s all about the extent of Article II.
Ahhh….but, on a going forward basis, the Telcos will be reluctant to continue to….spy on Americans without immunity….
Ummmm…Spying on Americans is the problem!!
Absolutely. Let’s have it on phone and ISP contracts: “by signing up for service, you accept that your calls will be routed through a computer that does filter-based voice and data analysis, because the old ‘wiretapper in a van’ is so 1970s.’
Kennedy voted for cloture also, but later explained why. It made sense to me at the time. I think they wanted to toss that version of the bill so they could go on to deal with substance of the Judicial Comm. version.
Does that make any sense to you legaleagles? I think that’s how it went.
Grew up there and southie… been on the west coast a long time
We have a grown-up, Sen Dodd ready to lead. I’ve had enough of children running the country. And kiddies wanting to be prez.
Reminder folks, let’s not forget to Digg It
i expect i will need some time to study the congressional record to really get what we are watching now.
That only makes sense if they think that the SSIC version of the bill will fail to get 50 votes. And if that were likely, then why would Dodd filibuster in the first place? The whole point of a filibuster is to prevent a vote when you are pretty sure a bill is going to pass.
We all know the telcos are lawbreakers. And we realize the same is true of the president. Let’s get on with some trials.
I just got here. Are the Intelligence Committee people going first?
To have 60 we already have:
49 Republicans
Joe Lieberman
The 5 who took this bill out of committee
Every person other than those is crucial.
Sounds like Nelson is in favor of ‘prospective’ immunity’ – on accountta we need their “cooperation” in the future.
Here’s an idea – when you present them with a warrant – they’re bound to cooperate. No need to coddle them or promise them ice cream – you get a warrant -> you comply.
Stop being such a p*ssy.
Nelson speaking truth to rethugs lies!
binkies — I like that : )
AT&T engineer says Bush Administration sought to implement domestic spying within two weeks of taking office
That is a huge fear of mine. We lose that, we lose everything. And the blogs are becoming a huge problem for congress. I don’t know how many would fight for us.
5/20,000 FISA warrans in 20 something years have been denied.
Neither House or Senate or you knows the extent of the behavior and wiretapping and how the information is shared that are the actions these turkeys want to grant immunity for, because the Administration won’t release that info.
So the Senate wants to vote on Immunity even though they have no idea what the immunity is for and nearly all of them have been shown no documents or told nothing.
Pathetic.
A good filibuster is a move by a thinking, grown-up Congressperson against a bill that represents the worst interests of the country.
The Repukes refuse to admit that there is massive data mining and surveillance. That is what is wrong. They talk about the TSP as if that were not the case; yet they use that premise as a rationale as to why it is impossible to expect court orders to be required for every person spied on. That is what needs to be clarified to the public.
Their arguments do not fit the facts.
Oops.
Dodd noticed Nelson was nodding off, on cruise-control/automatic pilot.
Dodd was NOT going to let his momentum follow down that soporific road without a little tweaking. Nice duet.
ooh katymine! good one!
absence of a quorum again
Immunity for lawbreakers from a corrupt president. Sounds like a dictatorship to us.
I just got home and I’m sifting through the comments but can anyone tell me (in less time) exactly where we are in the battle?
EPU’d from last thread:
In response to Kathryn in MA @ 209
“dodd notes an absence of a quorum. calling the roll.”
One of the little sidebars to this whole controversy today is that we’re seeing a little contest between Harry Reid, the current Majority Leader, and Chris Dodd, a possible future Majority Leader, on who can master the intricacies of Senate rules and muster the votes best. Dodd lacks the powers of the ML, but is not without allies. He is working the floor as well as making speeches. Forcing a rollcall gives him an opportunity to work the floor a bit.
My guess is that Dodd may be the better chessmaster, and is practicing his chops. CSPAN is giving him some free airtime in Iowa. So there are some interesting sideshows going on here.
Bob in HI
When I think of the telecoms, I keep seeing a picture of Tiny Tim or some other Victorian waif cup in hand plaintively begging for, “A bit of immunity, guvnor?”
Whatever happens, Dodd has shown bold leadership.
I think you are right…I VOTE FOR DODD!
Great one BobbyG!
Adie, Dodd’s sharp. Would love him as President. He’s over qualified to be Majority Leader!
Nelson wants the FISA Court to handle the question of immunity?
I’d rather see it in the 9th Circuit – but – I suppose that there’s a chance that the FISA Court might itself be a little miffed over the usurpation of their power for the last 6 years….
If the President and Telcos had not broken the law. We would be discussing Huckabee’s laundry list right now.
Hey is the CWA, the Communication Workers of America, leveraging their influence on this?
Aren’t they the primary union for the telco’s?
Where we are:
About 7 hours into 30 hours of debate on the bill itself. At the end of those 30 hours, if not before, we’ll get into amendments. The first amendment is supposed to be Dodd’s. It will fail. Once that fails, he will officially start his filibuster, preventing any more amendmets from coming to the floor.
I know. Incredibly complicated, and the lawmakers on both sides are trying to outmaneuver e/o, no doubt, which makes it virtually impossible for mere mortals to get it all as it flies by. Whole thing will take plenty revisiting from all angles, methinks.
THANKS for all your hard work!
((((selise))))
re airtime in Iowa – i hope Tim Tagaris is setting up a live feed for the events he is missing – talk about impressive.
I don’t see why the telecoms need immunity. After all, they didn’t do anything wrong (as I keep hearing today), so what do they have to worry about?
Thanks emptywheel.
EW – does this go all night?
“Adie, Dodd’s sharp. Would love him as President. He’s over qualified to be Majority Leader! “
Did anyone notice that before his first (?) speech today, Dodd asked unanimous consent to permit two of his aides access to the floor today? And his request was granted?
Do you think he’s working the floor today?
Bob in HI
Noticed that Dodd’s voice sounds better now. Maybe he’s not a morning person?
I’m checking–I’m not sure.
Wouldn’t it be nice if Hillary and Obama would behave like states-persons and pull out of the presidential race and endorse a grownup like Dodd?
FYI — I’m going to be on with The Young Turks, guesting with Cenk starting at 9 pm ET. You can listen in live here online.
Sherrod Brown up now. He’s with Dodd.
This will help you see the precise vote on the cloture amendment. How did your Senator vote? Chances are strong the answer is to screw you out of the Constitution:
Cloture Vote on S. 2248–to advance the Bill With Immunity
http://www.govtrack.us/congres…..=s2007-435
Here is some langugae the Republicans can understand Haliburtron was trading with Iran illegaly despite the trade embargo. Dick Chenney ran Haliburtron back then. Anyone close to Dick like all the Republicans in the House, Senate and most of the GOP Presidential Nominnes should then expect to have their phone conversations listened to if this bill is passes.
Now is the Republican Party really a terrorist organization or supporter of Terrorists? No just Dick, but if we pass this bill the Democratic President will have no choice but to enforce the law. A Democratic President will not play favorites like the Bush admininstration has most notably with the oil companies.
All of the oil companies that traded with Iran or Iraq under Saddam will be investigated. All of the Politicans who got money from these companies will have their phone records, politcal contrabutions, and legislative voting record cross checked to see if they were infulenced to vote for or keep voting for this war after we found out Saddam had no WMD.
Sherrod Brown is doing the lifting now.
Webster’s
1 in·sur·gent (noun)
Latin insurgent-, insurgens, present participle of insurgere to rise up, from in- + surgere to rise
1: a person who revolts against civil authority or an established government; especially : a rebel not recognized as a belligerent
2: one who acts contrary to the policies and decisions of one’s own political party
2 insurgent (adjective)
: rising in opposition to civil authority or established leadership : rebellious
— in·sur·gent·ly adverb
Let the revolt begin.
We are forced to be American Insurgents by our own Government and our own political party.
I thought the Young Turks was a morning show. Have they moved it?
Sherrod Brown D Ohio strongly supports Dodd
agreed, but we need both eh?!
I just love watching Dodd work.
Anyone else notice his voice is better, and he is perkier than when he started today? Good sign.
YAYYY Sherrod Brown finally up ;-)
i think he did get consent. i couldn’t hear the reply but he went on as if he got it.
And then there will be another motion for cloture, right?
Any chance this will be on any of the evening news shows?
Sherrod – when did money trump rights? good guy!
If the president does it, it’s legal.
Oh, but doncha know, those evil trial lawyers will force them to pay lotsa money to prove they’re completely innocent, and they can’t possibly afford that. (I’m envisioning a graphic of an elephant cowering away from a mouse here…)
Lets hope
Republican definition of bipartisanship: everybody comes together and agrees to do what we want.
Never happen. Hillary and Obama are indeed, children, and will cry and shriek and stamp their feet like a kid who’s been denied the No-Panty Barbie at Toys R Us.
I am now a Dodd voter in the primary and probably in the General, even if I have to write him in. I don’t agree with him about everything but he is a hero today, while scum like Feinstein, Nelson and other Blue Dogs, are sub-human filth, going along with the Chimp crime family.
Compare Dodd to Reid, Pelosi, HRC and Obama.
Dodd: the admin’s “assault on the Constitution and the rule of law.”
Tell it.
I’m From Texas so I have no Representation at this time. But I’m countng the days when Kay Bailey makes her run for Gov. and Hopefully Rick Noriega trashes Cornholio.
Sherrod yields to dodd – Dodd complements Sherrod’s long service and leadership in this matter. Dodd can understand being overly aggressive after 9/11 but letting it go forward 5 years is an assault on the Constitution
Now Dodd is making noises like he’d grant some immunity, for some unspecified period of time following 9-11.
Won’t. Work.
Who’s gonna be in charge of picking a date out of the air?
More like someone pulling it out of their ass.
*crickets* time.
Who’s next?
Countdown with Keith Olbermann on MSNBC, I would bet. Others, maybe not.
Oh my Is everyone getting the playing music now?
aak – music!! (nice stuff, but really)
I’ve long been struck by the phraseology here:
Alleged to have assisted? That’s some Orwellian shit.
is not this this debate on the motion to proceed? will there not need to be another cloture petition and 2 days for it to “ripen” before the next cloture vote (for the bill)?
Orrin? Is that you?
Not one word of it on the News Hour.
True dat!
Yes, music, and this is Chopin’s what? Anyone? Love this.
Or NBC Nightly.
That’s no surprise, PBS is a neocon shill now. Mostly always has been
We’ve got all the angles covered. Dodd covers this and Hillary covers Obama’s high school drug use.
Yep, my tax dollars at work, for the neocons.
Why are we spying on Americans when Bush has not yet sent a single solder after Ossama? We gave Pakistan money, advanced American weapons, help when that earthquake hit Pakistan, but still Pakistan won’t let us send troops after Ossama bin Laden.
Now why does Bush keep paying what can only honestly be called Tribute to Pakistan is beyound me. He certainly is not buying us Pakistani Permission to go after Ossama. So why are we giving Pakistan money to for all intents and purposes keep Ossama bin Laden safe from American troops, since Pakistan will not let us go after him.
America is playing a childs game of “Mother May I ” with Pakistan and Ossama.
America on the other hand is willing to get all kinds of harsh and spy on its on people.’s phone calls.
But why we all know that Bush has had years to go after Ossama. We all know that we could go into Pakistan if we really wanted to we certainly bought the right. But Bush has not and I don’t think ever will go after Ossama he lacks the guts!.
The war on terror is over Bush surrendered the second he decided not to go after Ossama anymore.
This Phone Spying bill is a joke, a fig leaf on a stuffed codpiece, a violation of every Americans rights as a citizen.
Well, they have good taste in music
my bold.
i don’t think it was the cloture vote on the bill, from your link:
cloture vote on teh bill is still before us.
Whay in the world would the MSM want to cover this? Afterall, it’s just news.
My question is for the rank-and-file Democrats: why do you keep sending Democrats money and your volunteer efforts?
Bush won’t go after Osama – the families are business partners.
It’s putting me to sleep
Contrary to popular belief, there are some very good Democrats in Congress.
this morning i disagreed with cbolt and now i’m disagreeing with marcy?
playing with fire, i am :-)
These are Chopin Nocturnes playing right now, from Book 2.
I sent money to the draft Gore effort. To Progressive Patriots. To John Edwards. I will send money to Senator Dodd as well. This is one way I have of supporting people who are standing up and doing the right thing.
Well said! almost as good as KO on Bill Moyers show!
hey all u guys – don’t knock the music.
it’ll help is stay sane, if ya let it. and it’s usually not only varied, except for always being classical, but it often appears chosen specifically too match the mood of the political intrigue that’s transpiring.
I always suspected Brian Lamb had some careful hand in choices ;->
The music is par for Senate coverage on C-Span, whenever there’s nothing for public consumption transpiring on the floor (and undoubtedly plenty behind the scenes). When they’re ready to do more, music will pause & mikes will go live & someone will “suggest the absence of a quorum.”
Thanks Unconventional. I used to have these on vinyl, years back.
The Young Turks are currently on air on their website providing marathon coverage of the senate hearings and the telecom immunity issue. Marcy Wheeler is the guest as of this comment.
Tune in at theyoungturks.com or the simulcast site bravenewfilms.org
The coverage has been excellent so far…
why music and not senators?
The Bush mob thus far has failed to make an offer to Iraq and Iran that they cannot refuse. And it’s just killing the Bush Group, and quite unfortunately, a lot of others too.
Telco immunity is about both cost and exposure of criminality by both the government and Telcos.
In many cases, Telcos, who are represented by the best and brighttest lawyers in America, knew that assurances by the Bush administration of the legality of the requested disclosure of customer information to the Bush administration were flawed, and that they could not reasonably rely on them. That could engender enormous liability. And because knowing violations of law may not be covered by business and directors’ liability insurers, that liability could become personal for officers and directors of AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, Nextel, et al. It would disclose and disrupt the undisclosed government/private “partnership” that is fueling the surveillance state and make some of Village elders and their neighbors pay personal costs.
But those are separate crimes from those committed by the Bush administration and their senior political leaders, none of whom should plan too many foreign vacations with or without Secret Service protection. Foreclosing civil lawsuits against private companies forecloses the obvious route through which we might discover the wrongs done by the administration (as well as the Telco actors). By focusing on immunity for the Telcos, and the immediate dismissal of those private suits, the Bush administration hopes to hide its own culpability.
It would take an enormously effective Congress and new White House to properly pursue those investigations, even without Telco involvement. Assuredly, as Digby points out, the GOP would be all over those investigations, screaming political vendetta and claiming that all wrongs found are laid at the Democrats’ doorstep.
Those investigations would also be lost among the mortgage and financial crises, Iraq and Afghanistan, the federal debt, and the need to raise taxes – just to pay the $200 billion in annual interest Bush has incurred, let alone begin to repay the principal. For most politicians, that would be all trouble with no upside. The Church Committee hearings from the 1970’s would look like the local PTA by comparison. Which highlights the stakes at issue here.
I think that Reid and his cohort have decided we shouldn’t even think about comprehensive investigations. They are trying to foreclose our ability to do them before the Democrats win the White House or larger majorities in the Senate and House. Bush and Cheney couldn’t ask for a better Christmas present. Pity, though, about the Constitution and the rule of law and the rights and interests of average Americans. But, hey, can’t upset the Village.
All day NPR (classical) has been playing clips from current Bush speeches on its short hourly news blurb. Not particularly important speeches. Never seen them do this before.
At least the music is much better than listening to Hatch, Sessions, Kyle, or any one of the abusers of the Constitution—including Harry Reid.
pizza just arrived
no, seriously, there’s probably all kindsa stuff going on, of an officially non-official nature, wheeling & dealing etc. rel. to the stuff you’ve been watching, and will watch shortly into the night.
guess who just agreed with me as to Romney’s MTP appearance being an unmitigated disaster? -> Mrs. Greenspan. (grumble,rumble, ratzenfratzen blergh)
I gave up my sweetheart, Rachel, to listen to Marcy and I’m waiting with bated breath for Redd!
I actually like the music myself. Thanks for the update Adie.
This has been a long day watching this going on 8 hours… a few small breaks for nourishment etc.
Bottom line is Dodd, the grown-up, is disciplining the Infant in Charge.
Oh gawd, it’s Harry.
OOh Harry.
excellent analysis. makes sense, thanks.
did reid just cave?
Harry is a motor-mouth.
He just made a freudian slip “this will not be looked into” oops “will not be looked at kindly”.
OT and terribly important. 41 staff and volunteers of the Baghdad office of the Red Crescent were abducted today. Some have since been released. The status of the others is unknown. You can leave comments at Gorilla Guides: here
Wait, who is this guy that looks like Harry Reid talking right now?
Harry talking in non-sequitors.
don’t know what reid is doing – maybe just making a statement like everyone else?
if it’s something different, we’ll have to watch carefully to figure it out.
Reid making noises about 5 years being too long to extend immunity to telecoms?
Is the worm turning?
thanx back at ya. I get all bristly when people start complaining that classical is stuffy. Or that those who are addicted to classical (me) are stuffy. Not the last time i looked in the mirror – nuttin to be stuffy about….
Could this be the beginning of the road to Impeach if the senate finds that Bush broke the law?
Is Harry relying on facts now?
i just switched to young turks. marcy’s great!
1,698 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Jest a quick pep talk before I go get taped up ta watch my Vikings lay waste the turf in the Humphrey Dome and skin “Da Bears” (actually it might be a tussle).
The longer this debate monopolizes the Senate and stays in front of the political junkies, the worse it is for the Democratic leadership in BOTH houses of congress. The more that the warrantless law-breakin’ is exposed and the longer the fascists are forced to defend instead of attackin’, then the shorter the leadership life span of One Hung Harry Reid. Edwards and Dodd are gunna drive this issue right down Mrs. Clinton and O’Lieberman’s throats in Iowa. Ya heard it here first folks: if Clinton loses Iowa she’s all done and Edwards is the nominee.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T GIVE UP THE HIGH GROUND!!
You do have a point there
Brief note just sent to Senator Durbin:
What channel carries Young Turks?
yessssss!!!!!!!
After the first of they year! Woo hoo? Woo hoo!!!
The “actual” procedural process of the FISA bill is that a motion to proceed to the bill is pending, with 30 hours from noon being the maximum time for debate before voting on the motion to proceed.
But, at 19:28, Senator Reid comes out with a bombshell, that he will set it aside until January.
Bear Down Chicago Bears!
Postponing debate til after recess
w00t
Dodd wins this round!
So. What did Dodd get to go along with this?
Chopin Nocturnes accompanying these people chopping away at our rights in the
nightbroad daylight. How fitting.delayed until after the christmas recess!!! did i hear that correctly? damn webstream stall.
Is Harry pulling this? What is going on?
My first thought is that Reid is taking a page from Haggis Specter’s playbook, sounding as if he’s a Democrat, until the votes come or he needs to cook a deal in the proverbial smoke-filled room: then he’s a “pragmatist” in the Lieberman model.
It’s hard to talk with crow feathers stuck in your mouth!
Yaaaa hoooooo!
The “actual” procedural process of the FISA bill is that a motion to proceed to the bill is pending, with 30 hours from noon being the maximum time for debate before voting on the motion to proceed.
But, at 19:28, Senator Reid comes out with a bombshell, that he will set it aside until January. Senator Dodd expresses gratitude for that.
somebody up thread mentioned Bob Kerrey impugning obama? bob kerrey just joined the board of Tenet Healthcare In Ca along with Job Bush. Tenet Healthcare was being investigated by Carol Lam, US atty of fired fame. Bob Kerrey also on 9/11 comission i believe. Can[t trust that guy as far as you can blow him.
Harry Reid is an idiot.
Does anyone thnk Kennedy has whatever it takes to get the impeachment ball rolling? I would thnk he’d be afraid for his life. God bless im. What will we do when he’s gone? He must see that too.
Lookit Dodd, He’s gonna give alll his speeches anyway?? RAYyyyyyy for him!! He’s got my vote.
Victory!
Of sorts…
Now FISA goes squarely into the political realm, as we’ll need Clinton and Obama’s votes when they will want to be stumping. We need to exact promises that they’ll do their first job first, and apply for their next job second! Dodd has already proved himself in that regard IMO.
Senator Reid commented that it was clear that the bill couldn’t be handled in the days remaining before adjourning sine die. “Couldn’t be handled in the time remaining” is code for “Dodd and/or Feingold really are going to sustain their objections.” Given that commitment, the time it would take to get through the process is greater than the time remaining in this session of Congress. Figure three days on the calendar for each move — three days for motion to proceed, three days for each amendment vote, three days for vote on final passage — with time being shortened only if the bill became agreeable to all who would continue to object.
our transcendent rights which every generation has the duty to protect.
Gives thanks to those who helped speecify.
Zakheim/Zelikow ‘08
Whhhhooooooooooo!!!!!!!
Thanks for the backstory on kerrey. my question. no surprises there.
kittykitty – you are right he would be afraid for his life. i suspect the Texas Mafia is at the bottom of a lot of grotesque stuff. (heh, i wrote stiff)
This is great news. There will only be a 2-week window when they return, before Protect America Act expires. That is when the rubber will meet the road.
This is a great victory for America. Senator Dodd truly showed leadership which we have not seen in years and years!!! He showed he can hold his ground when he needs to…when he could have been consumed by the need to be on the road campaigning. Now that is tenacity. The other candidates???? What other candidates, other than Edwards who could not participate and Kucinich, who is in the House.
Got my vote.
exactly!!! – the threat to draw it out until christmas was the real thing!
this is one time i am glad to have been correct. (usually i predict the worse and want to be wrong):
Right. So the pro-immunity folks succeeded in avoiding American families discussing all this over the holidays. I wanted that to happen.
there’s a new post upstairs
I am finally logged in. Now what was that thought I wanted to post?
Hmmm, not to hard to forget. Hey Chris, Yipee, If you need this next January, The Federalist Papers, I’m sure there a lots of commentary and twenty two part harmony stipulations and questions that can be derived from them by then. Gives me something to do over the holidays.
Former lurker, dropping by with my two cents on the new website. I’m sorry to say I don’t like it very much. The format is yucky in my humble opinion. I also miss the interesting photos, Christy’s little birds; the odd rock video of interest from TRex…there’s something very “corporate” about the new look. Of course, same excellent political analyses but I find myself not visiting FDL much anymore because it’s clunky and slow. Am probably posting this in the wrong place anyway. Oh well. nice knowin’ yas.
maybea @ 296
During scoots scooting and live blogging, it seems to me the site was more robust. Give Jane some time.
The Nation:
Remember that between now and January the EFF’s lawsuit will be continuing on into its 23rd month (the 2 year mark is late January).
Thank Dodd for his actions today, and also thank the EFF for taking on AT&T and other 3-letter government agencies. They are a small non-profit (they probably have less staff members than Senator Dodd has), even though they might look like a much bigger organization.
Non-profits run on donations: please consider the EFF as the year ends.
A passing thot, RevDeb (#123):
Instead of binkies, what about squares of t.p. in lieu of hankies?
I’ll admit I’m cheap, but ’spect I could “spare a square” here & there, for a good cause. Bonus thot: i think the repubbles are more afraid of the light of day, than the dark; but mebbe that’s just me. there is a nasty bias going around in our household, heh. ;->
2nd passing thot, this for maybean # 286:
my my my, substance AND staying power all in one neat package.
your momma must be proud.
don’t let the door…. oh well…. have a nice life.
((((((Senator Chris Dodd))))))