Dodd!

What is wrong witht he site today? It takes minutes to refresh and load the page(s).

What is wrong witht he site today? It takes minutes to refresh and load the page(s).

zed?

I think Obama and Clinton have dealt their campaigns dire blows. Failing to be on the Senate floor for this vote is inexcusable.

So he co-sponsors, but doesn’t go to DC. There’s leadership for ya!

Kagro X gives a goo run down on the nuts and bolts of Senate Procedures.

link

The way that I read it, Dodd’s “filibuster” wont’ start until Wed(?).
Also it looks as if the key strategy is for any of, what looks to be a gang of ten, to object to any UC. By doing so, even though they will loose every vote, they can drag this out for weeks. The question is will Dodd or any other Senator be willing to piss off ninety other Senators and object to the UCs

I’ve been having trouble even getting into the site this afternoon. Are the servers getting overworked?

What is wrong witht he site today? It takes minutes to refresh and load the page(s).

It is mucho s-l-o-o-o-o-o-w.

text of Kennedy’s remarks

Yep: I just missed a zed–toobz tied up. Has been erratic all morning.

Obama can’t be bothered.

We may be under DOS attack. Jamie and John are working on it.

slow? sitemeter says 50,000ish visits today

I figured it out. I just called Sen. Stevens’ office. They logged into fdl an hour ago….

just kidding.

Hiya Jane:

Long time no see…*g*

Actions speak louder than words. If Obama and Clinton can’t be bothered to show up and DO THEIR JOB at such a critical time, I really don’t care what they say.

We may be under DOS attack.

If so, is it a first? I’ve been here since June 2006 and don’t remember one happening before…

But I’m sure Edwards will come out with a statement. Of course he really can’t do anything about a filibuster since he’s not a Senator…

We’ve had a few, but not for a while.

My statement on Dodd’s filibuster: $50 for Dodd. And no vote for Clinton or Obama.

It would be wonderful if Obama came off the campaign trail to support Dodd.

Jane–I believe your expectations and right to representation should be much higher.

I believe it is inexcusable that Clinton and Obama aren’t on the Senate floor showing leadership and dissecting the obvious coverup attempt by this administration and its illegal industry partners to wreck the Constitution.

Edwards should be speaking out vigorously.

Wyden: the letters to the telecoms rquesting assistance clearly were asking for illegal activity. He is calling for the letters to be made available to all of the Senate under appropriate security conditions.

Actions speak louder than words. If Obama and Clinton can’t be bothered to show up and DO THEIR JOB at such a critical time, I really don’t care what they say

As I have been reading today, it is a lot more complicated..There is no critical vote..especially since it doesn’t appear that 41 votes are possible, even with all Pres candidates there and voting. These two dkos posts give the Dodd strategy and Senate procedures.

Link

link

We may be under DOS attack. Jamie and John are working on it.

Must be the Repug answer to Dodd’s filibuster. Trash the messengers and the message will die.

phred-

Obama does have a point. In this case, not voting does not harm.
This means, though, you should be mad at him over the energy bill, that received 59 cloture votes. the pres candidates’ absence killed that.

However, Bush would have vetoed. And there weren’t 67 votes.

Our system really doesn’t work under a 2 party system with bloc voting in the Senate and the president of the same party as the senate minority.

Senator Obama unequivocally opposes giving retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies … Obama supports a filibuster of this bill, and strongly urges others to do the same. It’s not clear whether he can return for the vote

In the 50s there was a nuclear attack exercise held in public schools called “Duck and Cover”. Barack Obama’s political strategy seems to be “Cover and Duck”. He releases a statement to give himself cover then ducks the vote. Can anyone seriously call this leadership?

“It’s not clear whether he can return for the vote” What is stopping him? A crowd of rogue bunnies? He couldn’t get a permission slip from his mentor Joe Lieberman? It certainly wasn’t a love of the Constitution or a respect for the rule of law.

Obama’s statement is like Democrats in Congress who cast symbolic votes against the current war policies and then write blank checks to keep the war going. The words have no meaning without the action to follow them. Obama can return to congress to cast his vote and Michelle can continue his speaking tour. He won’t miss a beat.

Maybe we should bombard Obama with this urgency so he doesn’t have an excuse to hid behind absenteeism, again. His vote should help his campaign. It shows he is committed.

Wyden believes that telcom companies knew/were adequately warned of illegality while cooperating with preznit. Documents show there’s no justification for preznits argument.

biodun:

Re DOS attacks, it’s generally best not to mention them–unless there are apparent effects in a newly released environment, like now.

What is wrong with the site today? It takes minutes to refresh and load the page(s).

Obama? I think you mean ”Obullshit.” The guy is an empty suit, worthless.

Site is still acting up I keep getting data base errors!!! And very slow to update! Server/net connection needs more bandwidth.

It’s not clear whether he can return for the vote…

Why not?

IrishJim–

Jane has already said that there may be denial of service attack going on.

What I want to know is how to confer retroactive vulnerability to Harry and Nancy’s leadership positions.

Has it been mentioned that the First Lady of Iowa endorsed John Edwards? Besides her mom and Chelsea, just who endorsed Hillary? Oh, yes, The Des Moines Register along with McCain.

Obama does have a point. In this case, not voting does not harm.

While this may be true this time, Obama seems to make this a habit.

Sorry for the multiple posts. Each time I tried to submit, it came back as unable to connect to the Database. I now know to quit hitting submit if it times out. Sorry. It seems OK now.

dammit. I should have added that posting comments complaining about performance is probably a counter-productive idea–adds to the load.

Maybe we should start up that interactive chat widget that I can’t remember the name of….

Wyden wants every member of senate to go to old . . . building before casting votes in order to see how flimsy preznit arguments are.
Dodd doesn’t think its feasible.

I’m having trouble, too. Thought it was just me. Maybe the site is under surveillance;-)

Wait. Dodd doesn’t have right to see Wyden’s old exec office building documents?

Great point by Wyden! Transparency especially to elected Senators. More obfuscation!

Senator Obama supports a filibuster of this bill, and strongly urges others to do the same. It’s not clear whether he can return for the vote, but under the Senate rules, the side trying to end a filibuster must produce 60 votes to cut off debate.

being there for the vote does not matter… being there for the debate does. another bullshit excuse from obama.

Site seems better suddenly! Maybe DOD ended

It would be wonderful if Reid would contract a severe case of ebola.

I’d settle for even a mild case of conscience.

The break down of votes is roughly 38 Dems..12 Bush/Dogs..Lieberman…49 Thugs. Not very pretty. If the “real” Dems can pick up 5-7 seats in ‘08, it won’t be enough to overcome a filibuster but it might be enough to threaten the “nuclear option” and give the Thugs something to think about.

I’m glad to see Senator Dodd at least trying to do his job, while the other candidates are out fulfilling their ambitions. Always glad to see Miss Jane holding feet to the fire.

My gawd. I feel so much better now.

AP – White House visitor logs are public documents, a federal judge ruled Monday, rejecting a legal strategy that the Bush administration had hoped would get around public records laws.

Wyden of Oregon very good! YeaY Oregon!!

Kennedy’s speech was so well written and delivered moving out into bushco’s criminal behavior as unitary executive snubbing the rule of law and the constitutional oversight of congress, I just hope the contempt papers go out enmasse and the House picks up with the articles of Impeachment. Kennedy made an unmistakeable call to arms throwing down the gauntlet. The partisan gloves are off whether Reid likes it or not. Talking about taking the moment he showed the class of Bobby Johm F. and Martin Luther King Jr.! Awesome move time to rock.

BlueDog Rep. Boswell also endorsed HRC. Former DLC chair and previous Iowa Governor Vilsack has also endorsed HRC. Blue Dog’s and corporatist have all embraced HRC.

I noticed today that HRC is copying Edwards visit all 99 counties strategy. A notable difference is that Edwards did it in October and his was via a tour bus. Hillary is doing hers via Helicopter. I do not think the whole Helicopter tour will go over real well with us Iowans. Seems a tad bit grandiose.

Meanwhile…New pic of Joe and his new flame…

http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..698/423401

I also want to reiiterate this important point–and that is if you aren’t present on the Senate floor, you don’t have a vote that can be counted.

The second point I want to make that has been made by Ron Wyden and others is that the Bush administration is refusing to show all but a handful of US Senators the documents that detail some of the illegal wiretapping.
It is inconceivable that a US Senator would be denied clearance to see these documents. It’s horrendous enough that we are so in the dark.

I just can’t decide. Obama or Hillary?

Don’t former Senators have floor privileges at the Capitol? And can they be recognized to speak? If so, John Edwards should be in DeeCee as well, supporting Chris Dodd on the floor as a former Senator from North Carolina.

I don’t know how this privilege works. Does anyone?

He prevaricates, he prevaricates. Oprah winfrey apparently shut down persons in the audience who objected to the “evidence” offered by Chalabi type defectors of WMD. She’d probably shut down those who question her candidates sincerity as well.
At least as a person who is campaigning to be the leading democrat in this country, he could make a stand and stand with Kennedy, Dodd, Wyden etal. But no!

My gawd. I feel so much better now.

AP – White House visitor logs are public documents, a federal judge ruled Monday, rejecting a legal strategy that the Bush administration had hoped would get around public records laws.

In other news, JimmyJeff GuckertGannon is running for the hills.

You mean which is worse?

Tim Tagaris has this update on his diary at dKos, time 3:08pm Eastern:

The Bush Administration puts out what they believe is an acceptable FISA bill. (pdf link).

“Furthermore, the Judiciary Committee amendment altogether fails to address the critical issue of liability protection. Accordingly, if the Judiciary Committee’s substitute amendment is part of a bill that is presented to the President, the Director of National Intelligence, the Attorney General, and the President’s other senior advisors will recommend that he veto the bill.”

Someone needs to go over the the WH and use very small words to explain to Georgie what kind of liability protectionthe telecoms already have. Clearly Dick hasn’t done that yet.

My gawd. I feel so much better now.

AP – White House visitor logs are public documents, a federal judge ruled Monday, rejecting a legal strategy that the Bush administration had hoped would get around public records laws.

Note that it also includes the residence logs of Darth. We soon be seeing just who’all has been worshipping at the altar of The Evil One.

At the risk of being glib. Quite frankly, yes. ;0)

Dodd.

Floor privileges for former Senators? That’s a new one on me. And if so, I haven’t heard of anyone doing that…

Obama and Clinton are watching each other, doing whatever the other does. If Clinton had come to DC to speak out, Obama would have too (and vice versa). Since neither did, watching each other, they are “stuck” in Iowa to work on their personal careers rather than serve the Constitution.

Wow. What “leadership.” I’m um…well….overwhelmed. I suppose. (Yawn) Yay for Obama.

I called Edwards HQ this morning too – asked for a return call with the Senator’s position on the FISA bills – no return calls yet.

Note that it also includes the residence logs of Darth. We soon be seeing just who’all has been worshipping at the altar of The Evil One.

Do the prisoners in Cheney’s dungeon go on the visitor log?

And even if former Senators have floor privileges, if Edwards did that he’d be accused that he’s doing it only because he’s running for prez…

There is nothing more common than when commoners try to emulate the Royals.

If Obama was a leader I could respect, he would have led the filibuster. Instead he’s whistling past the graveyard in Iowa (or wherever he is) while Dodd is doing the heavy lifting. Sorry, he doesn’t get a pass from me because he doesn’t think his vote matters.

Any ice storms, snow storms, airport closures keeping them from flying to DC?

Do the prisoners in Cheney’s dungeon go on the visitor log?

Only once – on the “In” list…

Do the prisoners in Cheney’s dungeon go on the visitor log?

No. The basement is technically on Cuban soil, so it’s exempt. They call it “Double Guantanamo”.

If Obama, Clinton and Edwards were smart, they would rush back to DC and fully support Dodd’s filibuster. (While Sen. McConnell warns us against rewarding the civil right damaging Burmese – but not the US – junta.)

Like Dodd, they would earn national coverage, while losing little ground won in Iowa. It’s long past time that these “leaders” are allowed to avoid taking a position on all contentious issues in hopes that they can avoid alienating voters who will never vote for them. Patriotism – like accountability moments – is something you act out every day, not every four years when the cameras roll.

Wyden believes that telcom companies knew/were adequately warned of illegality while cooperating with preznit. Documents show there’s no justification for preznits argument.

Honestly, I believe the telcoms have a defense: that they were being blackmailed and arm-twisted into capitulating to the administration and forced to provide access under threat of losing their ability to operate and losing government contracts as opposed to being rewarded with contracts and favoritism if they cooperate. If the government were a business, this would be called unfair business practices.

What I don’t understand is why even Rethugs can’t figure out that this administration holds them in contempt. Maybe not as much contempt as they hold Dems in, but contempt of Congress, all the same.

earlofhuntingdon, I agree completely.

Oh well yeah. But Dodd is there. So. Kennedy’s there.

Teddy–

Former Senators do have floor privileges while the Senate is in session. (Rule XXIII) However, former Senators who become lobbyists under the Federal Regulation of Lobbying Act of 1946 or any successor statute, or who are employed or retained for the purpose of influencing legislation, are prohibited from from lobbying on the Senate floor (Senate Rule XXXVII, clause8).

By tradition, former Senators are also accorded floor privileges in the House ofRepresentatives, including joint meetings and sessions of Congress.

Ordinarily, former Senators cannot speak on the floor, although heads of foreign states under relatively rare circumstances have been invited to address a Joint Session of Congress.

He’s got a million of ‘em!

Any ice storms, snow storms, airport closures keeping them from flying to DC?

Good question. Or maybe they just don’t think it matters whether we take them seriously.

I think Oprah needs to get on the phone and tell Obama to get his derier back to DC.

I’ll vote for that. ;0)

Oh look, we have ice/snow in the Northeast, but Teddy made it. Dodd got to DC from Iowa, I believe.

What have the Clintons said about this? at any time? when was the last time the Clintons said anything about this issue?

Any ice storms, snow storms, airport closures keeping them from flying to DC?
When I spoke to Senator aid this morning I asked and waas told the weather there was OK for air travel. If HRC is choppering around It must be good to go.

” I just missed a zed–toobz tied up.”

OMG! FDL has had its toobz tied!
Does that mean there won’t be any little FDLs running around?
No Firepuppies?

[Daily attempt at humor]

Bob in HI

Wyden mentioned someone, Mark Solomon (? — I’m bad with names) that he requested to be on the floor with UC. Is he a former Senator? The name was unfamiliar to me. If so, then it does raise the question of why Edwards didn’t show…

The LA Times gets one thing right, in a wire-service headline:

Former Dem Lieberman Endorses McCain

Dodd is acting like an American. It is a wonderful thing to see. Who will join him?

Actually, given the choice between Oprah and Obama for prez, I’d likely choose the “entertainer”.

Dodd is doing his job.

I think Oprah needs to get on the phone and tell Obama to get his derier back to DC.

Sadly, I think Obama needs a call from Oprah to do very much of anything at this point.

Where the hell is Biden?

Note that it also includes the residence logs of Darth. We soon be seeing just who’all has been worshipping at the altar of The Evil One.

Do the prisoners in Cheney’s dungeon go on the visitor log?

Only if they’ve passed their “swimming” lessons.

Go Dobbs! Speak up for all citizens!

My lady, lahoma, who is upstairs in bed with a bad cold, just emailed me to say Dodd is beginning to politically capture her imagination. This is important. Seriously. If lahoma tells me something, I listen.

phred–

http://rules.senate.gov/senaterules/rule23.php

This details who can get onto the Senate floor.

You’ve got a whole lot of new names for the next oathbreaker session.

Listen to Dodd articulate law and politics. Once upon a time, we had presidents who could sit up, beg and roll over without losing the bone in their mouth. Not this president, and Cheney only talks when inside the Cone of Silence. Demand more. Vote for it.

Go Dodd!!!

Oprah is so fatuous. she hung on every word Chalabi and his buddies had to say about WMD and shut down audience members who asked inconvenient questions. If it doesn’t fit into her Hallmark card view of struggle/& victory, she doesn’t see it. She’s probably viewing Obama with a pink fuzzy lense used on old Aaron spelling sets.

Senator Dodd mentions risk of medical and financial records being monitored.. Please do not forget atty client privilege.

As for the wannabes they better support Dobbs or there will be hell to pay in the polls and the ballot boxes. No suport for Dobbs No vote in the ballot box!!

AP – President Bush said Monday he is hopeful he can sign a $500 billion-plus catchall spending bill emerging on Capitol Hill, but only after Democrats agree to accept funding for U.S. troops in Iraq.

What will the House do with this perversion of a Senate bill? Most of FISA survives termination of the FISA amendments. Let the original amendments expire.

Orrin Batchwarrant up……

OOPS Dodd!

Where, indeed?

San Francisco: Will you join Sen. Chris Dodd’s hold and proposed filibuster on any FISA bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecoms? Thanks for joining us for this chat today, Sen. Biden, and thanks for the leadership you provide the Democratic Party and America.

Sen. Joe Biden: Yes.

{WaPo chatz, 10/19/07}

hatch is a sl o o o w talker

Cspan is getting hinky on me. Do we have links to full speeches besides Ted’s great one?

You’ll need to know his name if you’re going to vote for him. That would be Chris Dodd. *G*

Oh, No! Not Orrin Hatch! Good thing I have to go; got a Dr. appt.

Kiddo, lahoma is a smart lady.

Where is Biden and all the Dem candidates?… They underestimated the importance of this milestone event. The Rethug movement will come undone during this filibuster series. This is a preview of the impeachment hearings that will come in the House where the dirt will flow like a muddy river and sweep the repubs and the spineless dems out of power. Keep calling, faxing and e-mailing. Call ACLU and EFF for legal action. Struggle!

A great flowchart for following the Senate proceedings.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…../3140/5458

Dodd is the big dogg.

Hatch I call bullshit!

I know Biden has been in the Senate since 1981, nearly 27 tears. His words are particularly sharp and eloquent today and this may be his finest hours in the Senate.

The speeches of all the Republicans and Feinstein are desultory, deceiving, and show the utmost contempt for your Constitutional Rights to privacy. They show how much contempt most of Congress has for your intelligence and how stupid they think you are.

Scary. And Ted mentioned the airlines and blackwater. They’re doing a good job of tag teaming. I wonder if Wyden also purposely produced exhibit “docs in the old exec building.” If so, good work.

Orrin Hatch up, EWWWWW

Honestly, I believe the telcoms have a defense: that they were being blackmailed and arm-twisted into capitulating to the administration and forced to provide access under threat of losing their ability to operate and losing government contracts as opposed to being rewarded with contracts and favoritism if they cooperate. If the government were a business, this would be called unfair business practices.

That has been mentioned and that Telcos who lost civil suits wouldn’t have to pay but the Feds would. The thinkings is that the Telcos are worried that all of their illegal data mining for marketing and sales will be exposed and that would bankrupt them.
How was it possible for the NSA to go to the Telcos and ask for the wiretaps if the hardware and software weren’t already in place. This crap began during Bush’s first month in office.

Hatch is a reptile. A snake.

Feinstein lies.

All internet traffic was and is being diverted into the NSA. At least, all traffic that routes through the SF ATT switches. That means corporate, medical, finacial, legal….everything that routes through the internet. I doubt that dot gov and dot mil traffic is exempt, either.

NSA can run any search protocol they choose. The Senate should be a lot more worried about this than they are.

Good job, Jane. :o)

Nail em’…nail ‘em all. 3 weeks before Iowa, dear candidates: time to shit or get off the pot.

I think my teevee is trying to throw him up!!

Here’s paranoia for you. I’ve been sending e-mails to everyone I know today. Not a single response. I also haven’t received any e-mail since 8 a.m. this morning…not even spam. Is there some sort of black-out?

Hatch says there are so many who would expose secret national security docs. THe enemy is watching.

I had a Fruedian slip. I wondered where Biden was.

I meant to say

I know Chris Dodd has been in the Senate since 1981, nearly 27 tears. His words are particularly sharp and eloquent today and this may be his finest hours in the Senate.

From Kennedy’s speech:

The damage won’t stop there. The telecommunications companies are not the only private entity enlisted by this Administration in its lawbreaking. Think about Blackwater and its brutal actions in Iraq, or the airlines that have flown CIA captives to be tortured in foreign countries. These companies may also be summoned to court one day to justify their actions.
And when that day comes, the Administration may call yet again for retroactive immunity, claiming that the companies were only doing their patriotic duty as “partners” in fighting terrorism.

Did I just see a shot across Halliburton’s bow? Kennedy is suggesting future prosecutions.

Do you think, that’s what the “it’s more important to get elected” DINOs have been promising to keep the rest of the Dem caucus in line? Future prosecutions?

If so, my darling progressives in the House and Senate, please don’t be so naive. The ONLY prosecutions will the the timely ones you bring yourselves

WHEN YOU IMPEACH

Thanks for the link — much appreciated!

Of course, we should keep in mind that they all had jackshit to say, until a blogger started poking them with a sharp stick. :o)

Biden is a piece of work.

I’m sure they have CSPAN in the WH.

Hatch I call bullshit!

Yup. Hatch decries oversight by our judicial system. Heaven forbid that our courts do stuff like uphold the feckin’ law.

Hatch, you coddle criminals because you approve of breaking the law!

STFU Hatch.

The WaPoo and others insist that a FISA victory for Bush would demonstrate his prowess in getting what he wants from a craven Congress. I disagree; Bush is a non-entity in these debates. His ability to get what Cheney wanted from the former GOP Congress rested not on his political or negotiating skills, which are as limited as his imagination and curiosity, but on his willingness to open up the government treasury to private interests.

Rather, victory on FISA immunity would demonstrate that Party unanimity and power is more important than the rights of US citizens. It would also demonstrate that many in the Democratic leadership are as willing to play that game as their GOP counterparts. Leaving average Americans to fend for themselves against a controlling oligarchy that ignores them. Encumbency needs to become a rare thing.

She speaks with forked toung and forked brain.

Amen.

Senator Dodd has only two things going for him. He has substance and style.

related to dodd’s comment about medical records and financial records could be next: employees of jet propulsion lab in pasadena are currently engaged in a court fight against a new credentialing system that requires them to open up ALL of their personal info to company review: medical, financial, legal. They must list every address they have lived at the past 10 years and provide names of neighbors who will receive a questionaire on the employee’s personal habits. And on and on.

the 9th circuit court of appeals heard arguments from both sides dec. 5th and smacked down the gov’t a couple times. a temporary injunction against this intrusive program is in effect while the court makes their decision.

http://www.metnews.com/article…..120607.htm

It would be wonderful if Obama came off the campaign trail to support Dodd.

What, and give up talking about displaying leadership to actually demonstrate it? Jeebus, Hillary might give two unanswered speeches or Edwards might gain a point or three…

Hatch says if we don’t grant telecoms immunity, they will be unwilling to help the government gather intelligence in the future.

Well, sure, if the government asks them to do things that are clearly illegal…

How can immunity proponents assure us that telecoms won’t break the law again, in the future, if they can’t be held accountable?

Are we just supposed to trust the executive branch not to ask the telecoms to do anything illegal? We have tried that; it doesn’t work. That’s why we are where we are today.

The rule of law has to be the controlling standard.

Cspan 2 keeps freezing and then repeating the “fine wisdom” of Orrin Hatch. (paraphrase) there will be no future cooperation on part of telcom. Financial risks to much.

Sorry Orrin, I think Ted blew you out of the water on that one. Illegal v. Legal, remember?

I wonder if Hatch cried tears of joy when his church dropped official bigotry in the 1970’s?

Per Sitemeter: Pages viewed today,

Today 57,914

Stating, in essence, “I’m with him” is not what I call leadership – he needs to be on the floor, as do all our candidates.

Has anybody posted figures on how much money senators favoring immunity have accepted from telecom companies?

Is Dodd’s policy agenda compatible with Edwards’? Fierce aggregate intelligence there, could be a formidable ticket.

BTW, Hatch is… well, there are no words for what Hatch is.

Hatch says if we don’t grant telecoms immunity, they will be unwilling to help the government gather intelligence in the future.

Invoking State Secrets was a gift, a blessing to the telecoms, not a curse.

He did of course, because he saw it as a surrender to the forces of political correctness.

-G

all you need is a network monitor free from Microsoft to capature all traffic on the network. Analyze it latter1

Hatch keeps saying the telecoms helped catch terrorists after Sept. 11. What about BEFORE Sept. 11th? What did the Bush administration want in February 2001, huh, Orrin? How legal was that?

wow. i was just hung up on by senator cardin’s office because i’m calling from out of state – not even republicans have done that today.

Oh I can’t take Hatch. Time to search for more gingerbread recipes. Keep rockin FDl. Hope we get some good footage/transcripts/links of Dodd, Kennedy and Wyden,

If Obama or Hillary are a no-show, Dodd gets my primary vote.

Hatch does the scornful half-laugh well.

immunity to keep the telecom companies from having to defend themselves against lawsuits. now Hatch has gone waaaay beyond stupid.

Kennedy’s point about amnestithizing other Corporations is an excellent one. Blackwater, Halliburton, Fluor, Bechtel — all these have grandly squandered and stolen billions in Defense and Reconstruction dollars. But, since they did it at the behest of BushCheneyCo and in the service of The Terrorists’ War On Us, surely they should ALSO be amnestithized against future prosecutions.

Perhaps Congress should immunize ALL corporations against prosection. Why stop at telecoms?

I’m kinda surprised. When I had my background check to join DOJ, it was much more intrusive than that.

Hell, they tracked down and talked to MY KNDERGARTEN TEACHER. I’m not kidding, I couldn’t believe she was still alive. I also heard from my 4th grade teacher, and tons of people I could barely remember–all calling to tell me that FBI agents were asking questions about me.

The worst, is trying to remeber every bank account or credit card you ever had. Once I close an account….h

Congratulatinos. Sen. Hatch thinks you are all a “fringe political group”.

One of Hatch’s arguments is that the telecoms can’t defend themselves, that they can’t say anything about what they were doing. He then goes on to say they were behaving patriotically in working with the Bush Administration. How does he know this if as he says the telecoms have been unable to say what they were doing?

I don’t know whether the server for this site is being overwhelmed because of the interest in your losing your Constitution to the sellouts in the Senate, but it’s hard to post and the pages are hard and slow to navigate today.

Kitt Bond’s insipid, egregious, deceptive insistance that Telcom Immunity does not protect government employees ignores the reality that any and all times a government employee’s conduct would be called into question in a Court, the government would rush in just as it has been doing with Telcoms in the Ninth and other circuits and immediately would attempt cut off responsitility by invoking the “State Secrets” defense.

It seems to boil down to the bottom line that only Dodd, Kennedy, and Feingold have a clear understanding that the Constitution is at stake, and the integrity to fight for it. Widen and Whitehouse have been very ambivalent.

You’re watching the meltdown of the rest of the Democrats into Bush lackeys play out on your TV.

lahoma asks me to say thankyou. You made her blush. She went from brown to red. ;0)

Is Hatch equating corporations to people/citizenship?

Yessir earlofhuntigdon–very well said.

Oral Snatch just won’t shut up. Blah blah bladi blah blah…

Can’t get to the new post…I’ll wait…

CALEA REQUIRED HARD AND SOFTWARE TO BE INSTALLED IN ALL THE LOCAL HUBS FOR TELECOMS LONG AGO 1992 IN THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION.
bUSHCO ORDERED THE DATA MINING IN 2000 WITHOUT WARRANTS… HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEAMENORS ARE EVERYWHERE…LETS SEE A REPOST OF THE 289

I’m sure he knows that with heat sensing equipment, people can tell how many (still living) persons are in Cheney’s lair.
http://findarticles.com/p/arti….._n10143725

Scalia:”Why don’t your reasonable expectations of privacy include technology? … You know there are such things as thermal imagers,” Justice Antonin Scalia asked. “Why do we have to assume we live in a world without technology?”

1,98 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

This old citizen could give a shit less about statements from Mrs. Clinton or Senator O’Lieberman…Clinton coulda shored up ‘er fallin’ numbers and made a pitch toward the Democratic base by showin’ up on the Senate floor . Indeed, she coulda given One Hung Harry Reid the marchin’ orders last week to bring the Judiciary Committee bill forward and saved the party a nasty internecine fight…but she wouldn’t do anythin’ to undermine the prerogatives of a Senate colleague now would she?! No, of course not!!

Both Clinton and O’Lieberman are irrelevant from here forward…the good folks in Iowa are watchin’…GO HAWKEYES, EEEEdoggies Yeah!!

I think the leadership of the Democratic Party is gunna change substantially in the next session…ol’ One Hung is on life support and if Mrs. Clinton’s campaign goes belly up…well, he’s toast.

KEEP THE FAITH, THE GOOD GUYS HAVE THE HIGH GROUND AND THEY AIN’T GUNNA GIVE IT UP WITHOUT BLOODSHED!!

If it happened in 1992, that was still part of Bush I admin. Clinton was elected in November if ‘92 but did not take office until January 20, 1993. He and his admin may have used the tools but it sounds like were NOT responsible for initial installation. Blame him for what he did, not what others did.

New Jane upstairs.
URGENT ACTION: Sign A Petition To Tell Harry Reid To Join Dodd’s Filibuster

I’m sure they have CSPAN in the WH.
ALL THAT LAWYERING UP IS WASTED CAUSE THEY ARE BUSTED ON NATIONAL TV. This was the way to get the Impeachment material on before impeachment, What a smart play by Dodd. Feinstein jumped out of the political hot seat onto the fence as her baggy underwear is showing what a mooch. The Rethugs played the Bluedog dems like a piano now it is payback time. Shakespeare would write a grand play! Oh joty to the world, joy to all the boys and girls joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea. Jerimiah was abullfrog and he lived on the botom of the sea… Happy days are here again, this is the dawning of the age of Aquarius! Thank you Kennedys, Dodd and Firepups andall progressive everywhere. Now we can save the planet.

When those folks show up at your door, showing you a badge and saying… “I’m from the Dept of Defense,” it puts the fear of God into you!

Nearly had a heart attack! Twas many, many years ago. Only reason was due to a neighbor being in the National Guard.

But no wonder they contacted you… it’s a scary, scary thing to become part of somebody’s security clearance. You do not want the FBI or DOD at your door!

But, if they come to your door, don’t panic! It could be cuz they’re investigating someone else.

I read Jack Goldsmith’s book over the past few days. The OLC opinions written by Yoo are the root of all of this. That crappy wingnut lawyering got adopted as a (erstwhile) legal foundation because, and only because, human beings were too frightened at the time to think clearly or resist. Then layer upon layer of action and precedent built up around that flawed foundation. Now time and clear thinking and reason are finally revealing the original rotten lawyering to those on the inside — and if the end result of this filibuster is only the exposure of those documents in the OEOB that Wyden (and Whitehouse before him) illuminated, then it will have been well worth it. The original error won’t be corrected until and unless forced by sunshine.

We can’t get back on the right course with a bent compass. We have to fix the compass.

Can we get the Senators to march en masse from the Hill over to the OEOB? That would make a statement. The people could fall in line behind, in their thousands.

Hmmm.

To a Rethuglican (and too many Dems) corporations are more human, more “citizens”, than actual humans and citizens. This conceit, that corporations are citizens, is a major part of what is way wrong with America today and it must be fixed to truly correct the disease at the heart of this nation’s soul.

Corporations are NOT people, they are NOT citizens, they have no Constitutional Rights as real human citizens have. They exist ONLY on paper. They do NOT exist.

I did a typo sorry in Wikipedia it give 1994 as the passing date of CALEA. I am faulting noone that is the history. I thought Bill was a total raving idiot for saying while pointing his finger I did not have sex with that woman under oath. So much political capital wasted that was the crime not CALEA HE HURT US ALL SO BAD we are still recovering. No disrespect intended to you dakine01@171

I’ve noticed one thing. When these insipid Republicans like Corynyn and Jeff Sessions invoke this goofy principle that when a law officer asks you to assist them (in breaking the law) that it’s your duty to help them, not only is the reasoning absurd, but neither former Texas S. Ct. Judge John Corynyn nor former Alabama U.S. Attorney Jeff Sessions has been able to site any code section that okays breaking the many federal wiretapping statutes.

Only a moron understands you’re being supportive to the U.S. government when you force them to obey the Rule of Law, not when you help them break it. There is nothing supportive about corporations helping the government break laws for gratuities which is exactly what has happened here.

While listening to Jeff Sessions, I was at first tempted to support a $100 billion education bill for Alabama alone. Now, I think we should just expel them from the Union. He’s frickin’ brain-dead.

I actually prefer his flat-line stupidity to Orrin Hatch’s slithery lies.

LHP: if you’re still around, do the FBI do background checks on every employee of the DOJ? the JPL employees are in non-sensitive positions with no security clearances and handle no classified materials. i have a hard time understanding why the gov’t has a right to every piece of personal information from sexual orientation to politicial affiliation for the average workers. employees needing security clearances and working with classified info i can see needing more scrutiny.

Is Dodd’s policy agenda compatible with Edwards’? Fierce aggregate intelligence there, could be a formidable ticket.

True, but if possible, I think I’d rather have Dodd as Majority Leader in place of Harry Reid.

BTW, Hatch is… well, there are no words for what Hatch is.

There are words, but they’re not usually used in polite conversation.

Bob in HI

:~)

“Kennedy’s point about amnestithizing other Corporations is an excellent one.”

Amnesthetizing– a very interesting and probably new word, based on a new? verb- to amnesthetize, i.e. to cover with a blanket of amnesty. Sounds better than “to grant amnesty”. I suspect the preznit is going to be doing a lot of it next year.

Bob in HI

I don’t know what the standards are for, non attorneys at DOJ, I also don’t know if it’s different depending onwhether you are in the criminal division vs. the civil division.
But, it owuld seem to me, if your inthe building and could purloin the info, you would proabably have the same level of check.

Afriend of mine was monitoring an environmental cleanup at one of the national labs–not doing the work of the lab, doing a groaundwater remediation from a spill. he had the full blown background check that the guys working on the super secret projects get

left at the bottom of THAT thread

Beyond Obama’s not being in DC to literally stand beside Dodd in support, he’s also failed to bring his fellow Senator from Illinois to his side. What kind of leadership is that? Effectively nil.

Obama: Leadership without results.

(I would have hoped that ALL Democratic Presidential candidates would have banded together on this issue, and come forward as a group to support Dodd. This issue is more important than political posturing and they needed to use their short-term political clout to produce a positive result.)

The first vote on cloture passed by the vote of 76-10 [voting against: Boxer (California), Brown (Ohio), Cantwell (Washington), Cardin (Maryland), Dodd (Connecticut), Feingold (Wisconsin), Harkin (Iowa), Kerry (Massachusetts), Menendez (New Jersey), Wyden (Oregon)]. Missing Senators included Clinton, Obama, Biden, Sanders, and Lautenberg.

Keep in mind how difficult Reid made it for the Judiciary version of S. 2248 by bringing the Intelligence version to the floor and making hurdles for the Judiciary burden as Glenn Greewald underscores well.

A must read for everyone interested in the FISA bill (lol as opposed to everyone disinterested) is Glenn Greenwald always, and yesterday and today in particular:

Harry Reid — compare and contrast
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/

Also we all know that everytime one of the Repubilicans invokes going to the FISA court for a warrant–they fail to state the obvious. The FISA court in its years of entire history has denied warrants in 5/20,000 cases.

What the hell is the point of believing in something if you don’t take a stand? Statements don’t cut it; votes do.

The first vote on cloture passed by the vote of 76-10 [voting against: Boxer (California), Brown (Ohio), Cantwell (Washington), Cardin (Maryland), Dodd (Connecticut), Feingold (Wisconsin), Harkin (Iowa), Kerry (Massachusetts), Menendez (New Jersey), Wyden (Oregon)]. Missing Senators included Clinton, Obama, Biden, Sanders, and Lautenberg.

Keep in mind how difficult Reid made it for the Judiciary version of S. 2248 by bringing the Intelligence version to the floor and making hurdles for the Judiciary burden as Glenn Greewald underscores well.

A must read for everyone interested in the FISA bill (lol as opposed to everyone disinterested) is Glenn Greenwald always, and yesterday and today in particular:

Harry Reid — compare and contrast
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/

Also we all know that everytime one of the Repubilicans invokes going to the FISA court for a warrant–they fail to state the obvious. The FISA court in its years of entire history has denied warrants in 5/20,000 cases.

All this talk of “granting immunity”–I don’t know what the hell they are granting immunity for, and neither does the vast majority of the U.S. Senate and the House of Representatives. That is insane.

Forgive me for any double posts, but it’s happening because of an error that comes up probably because of heavy traffic on FDL today, prompting you to try the post again, and then at times the orriginal goes through.

talk is cheap, and a statement alone is worthless–the fact that the other sitting Senators running were not there on the Senate floor shows their priorities–appalling.

Is Dodd’s policy agenda compatible with Edwards’? Fierce aggregate intelligence there, could be a formidable ticket.

Dodd has received so little coverage that very few people know what he stands for based on just his campaigning. Those of us who have followed politics for years know his position and I think I can say he fits well with Edwards. He’s been a bit more pro-corp than Edwards sounds, but aside from that they would probably work very well together.