Harry Reid just pulled the telecom bill. The Senate will take it up again after the first of the year, but for now there will be no retroactive telecom immunity.
Karen Tumulty wrote over at Swampland earlier in the day:
from the Department of Freudian Typos:
Dodd’s campaign at 5:59 p.m. sent out an e-mail update with this subject line:
DODD CONTINUES TO APPLY LEADERSHIP TO SENATE LEADERSHIP
At 6:05 p.m., it sent out a corrected e-mail with this subject line:
DODD CONTINUES TO APPLY PRESSURE TO SENATE LEADERSHIP
I guess he did.
Chris Dodd showed tremendous leadership. He stood by his principles and wouldn’t back down, even in the face of opposition from members of his own party who were in the tank for the telecos and the Bush Administration.
Well played, Senator Dodd.
Those looking for a way to say thanks to Chris Dodd might consider contributing here.
Related posts:
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- Schumer Raises the Stakes: If Final Bill Has No Public Option, Blame Harry Reid
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yo
Hooray!
Dodd!
WOO HOO!!!
THANK YOU SENATOR DODD!!!
Dodd takes a victory lap.
Well deserved.
Leadership.
Chris Dodd, thank you very much.
Bravo, sir!
Dodd you are the man!!! Goooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaallllllllllll!
A Real Leader, what do you know!
When danger reared it’s ugly head, Harry turned and bravely fled.
Dodd-mania trumps Joe-mentum every time.
Thanks you Chris Dodd!
Great job firepups! We win this round.
Huzzah! I believe in
Godthe Constitution and Senator Dodd!Real leadership from a Democrat, at last!
Sit on it, Harry.
Oh wait, I guess he just volunteered to do just that, huh?
THANK YOU SENATOR DODD!
Great Job Senator Dodd and thanks to FDL and the great discussion of all of the firepups!
Where do we go from hear. Any good analysis yet?
Victory!!! Finally, chalk one up for the white hats… 8-)
Thank you Senator Dodd! Thank you Senators Feingold and Kennedy, too!
Thank you Senator Dodd…you are a true patriot and HERO!!
Today I am proud once again to be an American. Thank you Senator Dodd.
Thank you FDL. I have hope restored.
Remember how giddy we all were when the Libby verdict came in?
Reid demonstrates he’s weak.
Dodd demonstrates how a strong Dem senator can force Reid to cave.
Very revealing, IMO.
I knew we could win!!! Thank you to all the Senators, and all the American citizens, who supported this effort today.
Thank you, especially, Senator Chris Dodd. You have my gratitude and my respect.
Wonderful news! Sent email of congrats to Senator Dodd.
Thanks to FDL for a great petition mechanism and diary offering moral support to Sen. Dodd and suggestions for ‘talking points’ during his filibuster.
I don’t have much money left after holiday shopping, but I just dropped what I could with Chris Dodd at his website. Dodd did what others would not.
Thanks Sen, Dodd!
Wow!! I guessing Reid heard a lot from his own folks in Nevada today. I doubt there are a whole lot of people in Las Vegas that appreciate being spied upon…
Excellent news, though. Feels like it was worthwhile making calls this time.
GO FDL! GO JANE!
Real leadership from a Democrat, at last!
Which brings the running total up to, wait a minute, counting…
One.
It’s a start.
Reminds me of one of my favorite Blues tunes: “If I can’t sell it, I’m gonna sit on it”.
A wonderful day for the Constitution.
Let’s hear it for Senator Dodd!
The Dodd Abides!
This is very, very good. And it will certainly serve Dodd well in his campaigning.
Nevertheless, I just can’t shake the feeling that there is more to this than Reid backing down. What is really going on?
Thank you Senators Dodd and Feingold and their like-minded colleagues.
Thank you Jane! And Christy! And…..
Firepups are foxhole-worthy.
Lieberman? You putz. Enjoy Tweety fawning over you. Your 15 minutes are up.
Despite being Canadian, I signed the online petition and would like to congratulate all those that worked to get this issue, this far and hopefully to the rightful results. Kudos Mr. Dodd.
Hats off to Senator Dodd. Hillary, Obama? This is what real leadership looks like in case you were wondering. It doesn’t happen in Iowa. It happens on the floor of the Senate. You might learn something from this. Doubt that you will though.
This is one of those times where it took me a moment to wonder if I had heard what I thought I heard. Apparently Dodd and we have won this round. Reid keyed in on immunity but there are still important questions about basket warrants, reverse targeting, and minimization.
Faced with determined opposition, Reid didn’t have a choice. There are other matters that have to pass the Senate before January, and determined obstruction (which Dodd just exerted) would eat up all that time. Reid was calling Dodd’s bluff, only to find it wasn’t a bluff. During that process, a few Senators had a chance to get their opinions on the record. I’m reluctant to accord their speeches the label of “argument,” because the logic in them just doesn’t reach that level. “Opinions” seems a better fit.
Hurray Senator Dodd! The fight has begun.
May be a great achievement — may be just a way to can this thing up out of the MSM limelight. Only time will tell. There will not be a lot of time for debate when they bring it back up in January, and in the meantime lots of severe armtwisting can be applied in private and at length.
So: Cautious optimism here.
Maybe I was wrong. Maybe Sen. Reid does give a rat’s ass what we think here at fdl and other such places. Then again, maybe he doesn’t. But I’m EXTREMELY pleased that Dodd’s strategy worked.
Chris,
You are earning my vote. So far, you are the only candidate who has put her/his ideology into action. Thanks for giving us more than a sound-byte, as well as something to believe in!!!
:)
Do we still get to call Senator Reid a wanker? C’mon, I really wanna!
There was other good news today, too. Not all judges drink the kool-aid:
The White House must release its visitor logs and cannot hide behind a shield of privilege, a federal judge ruled Monday.
Okay, I admit it. I’m a pessimist. Either that or I’ve been disappointed so many times that I dare not hope. But this is good. On my way to donate $25 to Senator Dodd.
Sen. Dodd, you rule. Every single Democratic presidential candidate should be forced to explain where the heck they were today and why whatever they were doing was more important than defending the Constitution.
The audacity of your colleagues standing on the Senate floor and whining about the potential loss of AT&T’s reputation is staggering.
Thanks for being a real hero and don’t spend my contribution to your campaign all in one place!
LOL!
Omigawd – you guys did it! Hurray and Huzzah! I signed the petition, but didn’t have the opportunity to do phone calls, etc. Thanks to Jane, Christy and all Firepups who made this happen!!! I am so excited for this result – I guess Harry heard us all! And dear dear Dodd – Oh my! What a patriot!
Love to all!
Jane! thank you too for leading us!
You inspired me last night to send 100 emails, and 15 calls today!
now to donate to Sen.Dodd
There will not be a lot of time for debate when they bring it back up in January,…
Hey – they’ve got all month, and part of February…
moeman,
thanks for your care. this U.S. citizen thanks you.
I understand all the face saving – but I really want the issue dealt with. This waiting is driving me nuts. I feel like I can count on Dodd though.
Friggin A!
Dodd!
-GSD
YES! YES! that is how it is done
Great News!
Now to build on the momentum for this vital and just cause.
Thank You Sen. Dodd
What made Harry Milquetoast fix the bad bill after he said he couldn’t do nuthin’? It was Chris Dodd and We the People – raising hell on the internet, faxes, mail and phones. Awesome. All the good people who know about it hate telco immunity b/c its so rotten it stinks.
Bravo Senator Dodd!
Now that is what I call leadership!
Let’s make sure Dodd knows we are grateful … I sent a donation to his campaign which seemed the best way to make my support of his effort concrete.
I feel like I’ve been shot in the head 500 times but had one of the bullets sort of extracted.
Oh. Technically, Reid didn’t “pull the bill.” The bill was never formally pending. What was withdrawn was a motion to take up the bill.
In the long run, I think this just delays the inevitable. There are easily 60 Senators who will sign on to S.2248, unamended, amnesty and all.
Cool, I just got an automated primary poll call for Georgia and was able to say I’d vote for Dodd!
I can’t wait to hear what KO has to say about this. Ten more minutes and we will know.
Thank you Senator Dodd. Thank you FDL. The phone calls and faxes that just may have made a difference. My faith in the possibility of justice and the American way has been restored. Bravo Bravo. Finally a win and someone to be proud of.
In the last thread @ 159 I wrote,
Well, score the first round for Sen. Dodd!
From the comments I’ve read today, Dodd sounds comfortable at the helm, working the floor. Reid doesn’t really seem in his element as Majority Leader.
w00t for Sen. Dodd!
Bob in HI
Thanks to all of us too, Reid said he’d received thousands of letters and the people really know what is going on.
New acronym for the night – OMFD!
Please do.
My messages to Senators Reid and Mikulski:
:::::::::::
I used to work for my local telco and I can assure you they knew did a risk/reward calculation in deciding to participate in warrantless wiretapping. Why on earth should they be shielded from the consequences of their decision? They were anticipating a “permanent Republican majority” don’t you recall.
:::::::::::
As a native Balitmoron who once lived in the east Baltimore neighborhood that produced Babs, I gotta say her support for telco immunity and her earlier support for General Hayden have been making me wonder if she’s really the liberal Democrat she’s portrayed as being.
What do you think is going on at the White House right now?
Merry Christmas, Mr. Bush!!
That lump we left in your stocking – it isn’t coal…
I agree with Siun. Dodd certainly deserves more than Ron Paul. If he gets lots of money for showing this kinda determination, it will be well noted. Come on, pups! Ante up.
Thanks for update, Jane! Well, I’ve already decided Dodd has my primary vote pretty much for certain. His words and actions really do need to be rewarded, and I’m so very tired of holding my nose and voting for someone who doesn’t even remotely deserve it. For that reason, the only electoral reform that would make me happier than the National Popular Vote would be the use of ranked choice voting in primaries. Why should anyone ever have to make a choice between who deserves one’s vote and who’s “doing well enough in the polls” to be considered “electable?”
They are trying to explain to Dana what a telecom is.
Wow. Just. Wow.
Power to the People!
yup off to ante up.
Holy Crap! This will give us precious time to consolidate our opposition further while giving Reid precious time to pray that we forget all about this and go away.
Speaking of enemies who lie low and bide their time following a setback, shouldn’t we all be immediately redirecting our energies to figuring out how to stop Kevin Martin’s media consolidation efforts at the FCC? I mean, now that we’ve got a (momentary, only momentary) breather regarding FISA?
Strategizing. DNI McConnell is being given marching orders, I would think… not that he’d particularly need telling, specializing as he has in telco/USG relations WRT surveillance.
Here’s the way to contribute to Dodd.
Dodd still up…what is happening
Can we beat up Lieberman now? Pretty please!
comment is from previous thread
reid et al were not willing to pay the price. doesn’t mean that he won’t be after the recess, but now we have some time to expand and enhance our lobbying efforts.
You know if Dodd hadn’t done this, with pretty much one hundred percent certainty we’d have telecom immunity, right. now.
A giant w00t w00t for Senator Dodd! Great job.
I kicked in a nice little monetary thank you right after his 1st speech. Go Dodd!
Never before has a President and Vice President deserved to be impeached more than these.
Yet our Speaker of the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi, is working behind the scenes with House Democrats, not to build a consensus for impeachment, but to do just the opposite. To keep others from succeeding in their effort to hold this president accountable by means of impeachment.
With the FISA bill looming in the Senate, we have to show the leaders of the House and Senate that this is still our country. Please read the petition to replace Pelosi with a Democratic Representative who will bring impeachment proceedings to the floor.
http://www.petitiononline.com/…..ition.html
LOL, loved that movie!
Does anyone know if any of the current contenders bothered to show up on the floor today? Paging Sen. Clinton, paging Sen. Obama….
What “did in” the bill, as much as anything, was the time remaining between now and the end of the first session of the 100th Congress. Reid has a good half-dozen other items that have to be done before January, and FISA can wait, with a February deadline for completion.
Of course, without determined opposition, this might well have passed without amendment. See passage of the PAA last August for an example of TYPICAL Senate action under a time crunch. What happened today was an aberration.
Congrats to the blogosphere! It was instrumental in bringing out this short term victory. The WH will now start a campaign to impugn the terrorist-loving liberals. To our benefit, Hatch et. al. detailed all of their easily-rebutted arguments. Blogosphere needs to get out in front and OWN THE ARGUMENT. We need to pressure the MSM to run our rational arguments, while dismissing the fear-mongering of the evil Orrin Hatches of the world.
That is actually much more heartening to me than the outcome of this particular parliamentary maneuver.
Really important, he introduced a bill to honor the Valdosta State Blazers for winning the D II football championship. Can the Whitewater Warhawks be far behind?
Reid, of course, avoided the ignominy of having Dodd filibuster him and speak the thousands of messages sent in by ordinary Americans on the floor of the Senate.
He avoided having his fellow Senators actually read the competingt bills, the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence as if for the first time. He saved his ass as well as deferred a vote on his perverse legislation. He avoided giving the House a bill to chew over or spit out.
Question is, what deal will he try to make between now and the first of the year?
NO KO!
Well, Dana, it’s like an intercom only bigger.
It’s like the cameras at the press briefings except they do it to your phone.
Those voices that you hear in your head? They can hear them too.
donated half a century
And did you hear Hatch crying about Move-on and the blogs?
Senate’s adjourned till tomorrow!
Something just happened with S.2248 … I have to replay the recording to see exactly what it was.
there have always been 60 senators to vote for amnesty. the question is: are there 60 senators who care so much about amnesty that they are willing to give up more than a week to debate it?
The next step is for some brave soul to speak on the floor of the House or Senate and “spill the beans” on some of these self serving “State Secrets”. And then dare the fascists to prosecute them.
Please do.
Done for the day! where do we pickup tommorow?
Oh No No Keith has the day off. How anti climatic, I was hoping for some great comments from him.
Oh sure, I put The Peanut to bed and read her a story, come downstairs expecting to make myself some popcorn for a long night of debate watching…and, whammo!
Good on Sen. Dodd. And Jane, you are so right: without Dodd pushing this, and without Feingold and Kennedy and a number of others standing with him and also pushing a LOT behind the scenes, we’d have telecom immunity right now. Those who did the work deserve a lot of credit.
Those who didn’t bother to show up when it counted? Not so much…
It’s an aberration I’ll take cboldt. I know this has only bought us time, but we have failed at that repeatedly. I’ll take my victories where I can get them and this is a damn good start. For the first time, THE FIRST TIME, a Democrat in Congress has stood up to BushCo and stood on principle. We are in a much better spot today than we were yesterday, so I’ll take it.
And in January, we’ll be going not for the game, but the set. And after that, the match…
Thanks not only to Dodd, Kennedy and Feingold, but also to Senator Boxer, who was the first No vote on Cloture and the first speaker in opposition, and all Senators who spoke today and brought about this victory.
yes i do.
i think this is first time all year i’ve been glad about all the hours i spent on moveon’s phone banking system last year.
What on earth has been the matter with FDL today? Poor Emptywheel has been unusable, and eponymous FDL hasn’t been much better. Did anything ever come of the DOS theory?
This is one of those times where it took me a moment to wonder if I had heard what I thought I heard.
I must have been a sight just now, staring dumbly at my screen for close to a minute. At least it’s a chance to breathe a little while watching for the next big wave on the horizon.
Cowabunga!
Reid is, perhaps, also assuming that the blogosphere will lose energy and be distracted and come New Year, he’ll be able to get his legislation through. He may have it exactly wrong.
As with the Thanksgiving break, Reid should not allow a full “recess”. Bush never really gives in on his political appointments; he just waits for a convenient time.
Senators I need to send a thank you note:
Dodd
Feingold
Kennedy
Who else?
That was just the clerk reporting the pending measure. No action taken.
It’s a malfunction at the junction.
Very true. It would be August all over again.
holy CRAP
I am starting to like dodd as mcuh as I like feingold
dodd/feingold
much better then clinton/obama
very well done, Senator Dodd!
OT if Countdown can be off topic around here.
I love it! Countdown just took note that while Biden, Clinton and Obama all vowed to support Dodd’s filibuster, that they are all still in Iowa! On the national news!
On another note, Alison Stewart has changed her look; she straightened her hair. I like it! She’s a very pretty young woman!
He’s not there!! Ahhhhhhhhhhgggg!!!
My gratitude to Senator Dodd has been expressed with a small contribution, and my support in the primaries.
But we can’t just let it go now. We’ll have to be ready with more pressure come January, to keep this immunity deal out of the FISA reauthorization bill then, too.
I do like the idea of a GIANT web-based, multi-site Chris Dodd for President fundraiser. I already sent him a little, but If we get something BIG going, I’ll send him more than a little bit more! It’d be nice to break Ron Paul’s record. It would sure send a message to Sens. Clinton and Obama, not to mention Sen. Reid.
Add Boxer and Wyden to that list.
This is only a minor victory in a war the progressives and freedom lovers will lose this congress. If these SOBs including W, and the telcoms who ultimately provide the wires for the taps get away with this, score another one for Big Brother.
We need some serious do overs in the next congress, if there is a next one.
Wow. I called Senator Dodd’s office today to thank him profusely. This is the way it is done.
Well done, Senator. This is what we need for our next President. Senator, you just got my vote.
Exactly..all it take is one Senator to say no to the UCs and it would take weeks to get to the end.
As in: that’s what it’s like when they strip out all the packets heading to or from FDL’s servers, store them, verify the store, and then send them out again (or not)?
What’s your ‘Dr.’ in, if I may ask?
I sure hope this catapults Dodd to the front of the pack, he sure deserves it, here is a man of principle, here is a man that knows what’s important
here stands a man
My heart swells with admiration, admiration i have had for very few others.
I have a new great hope
On Countdown, they’re now questioning why Biden and Dodd didn’t ask Lieberman for his vote or an endorsement! Well, duh! Guess they didn’t want a millstone around their necks!
Brown
Wyden
NO thanks to
Clinton
Obama
Kerry
I can hear the teleco media people and lobbyists now,
“And they used OUR infrastructure to thwart us! They made calls to their Senators on OUR phone lines! Sure we got money from the calls, but not enough!”
And
“We were PROMISED that if we did this thing for you, Mr. Cheney that we would be taken care of like you did Scooter Libby. If the bill doesn’t pass we want your personal guarantee that we well get one of those get out of jail free cards like you gave Scooter.”
Can suits (or more suits) be filed NOW or will the immunitity be retroactive and the suits tossed out?
If they are given immunity then what do they have to admit without paying for it?
Or does this all go down the rabbit hole of state secrets?
Nevertheless, I just can’t shake the feeling that there is more to this than Reid backing down. What is really going on?
me too
nevertheless this is a small, but pleasant victory. Thank you Dodd, Thank you FDL, and thanks to everyone who sent an email.
We need more pressure though, we need to find a way to generate emails from people who do not often contact their Senator.
lahoma likes Dodd. We are in agreement.
Looking at the Olbermann show and the Lieberman ‘I heart McCain’ story is on. Gawd… I have opinions about these two men.
And Bill Nelson
Okay. Senator Dodd just described a UC agreement outlining tomorrow’s proceedings. part of that is (this is a direct quote) “motion to proceed to S.2248 be adopted, and once this consent is granted, all time post-cloture is yielded back.” The clerk then read the title of the bill. So, as a matter of parliamentary procedure, S.2248 is now formally pending. Weird, but not unheard of to have a formally pending bill set aside to make way for more urgently pressing matters.
It was weird to heard Senator Dodd announce the agreement to proceed to the bill he’s been obstructing.
Re: Dodd… that old line from the movie “Jerry McGuire” comes to mind — ‘I just want to be inspired.’
Today, I am.
Wonderful to watch how patriots — Dodd, FDLers — actually conduct themselves ;-)
OT–
“As a native Balitmoron. . . “
OMG, do you really call yourselves Baltimorons rather than Baltimorans?
I’ve heard of local pride, but this is different! Or is this just a typo, like the it/ti dyslexia?
Bob in HI
Unfortunately, I would add Durbin to that list.
a win for the good guys!
Thanks to Sen. Dodd. But as for a donation of gratitude, can we make it for a plane ticket off the campaign trail and back to CT and DC?
This is a good day! And what a treat to be able to share it with all of you. :-)
Joe Lieberman is a punk and he’s been playing Harry Reid like an untra-cheap banjo.
A great development.
I heard earlier, though, that Wyden and Dodd had a long exchange on the floor about the fact that only the Intelligence Committee members, Judiciary Committee leaders, and only a select few had the opportunity of seeing the legal justification for it’s warrantless surveillance programs. (H/T to mcjoan on dkos)
Un-fucking believable that every single senator wouldn’t be allowed access to read a key document behind what they’re voting on.
Even the highly classified October, 2002 NIE was available for view (under secured conditions) to any Congressperson who asked.
(camera pans to Rod Serling)
ROD SERLING
You’ve witnessed it here, ladies and gentlemen. And it’s still unbelievable — even to me — so much so that I’d swear the cigarette I’m smoking has to be fucking dope.
The of wire tapping used to spy would not in of it self cause any performance issues for FDL servers. It was something else.
DOS or maybe inherent data base/server issues.
I applauld you all. Jane, Christy you are my heroes. Great community effort. I made phone calls on Fri. to beat the FISA rush. For good measure I made more today. Busy signals, Harried staffers, full message boxes. I’m proud of everyone who took a stand. Senator Dodd has my deepest respect and gratitude. It may only be one battle in a long dirty war but I needed somthing, to give me a glimmer of hope that the system still works.
I left the C-Span on throughout the day — what a civics lesson. Dodd’s initial argument was one for the history books. Clear, eloquent, tight, and stirring. Ron Wyden was just plain hot. (Okay, I’m into lisps, or whatever he’s got, but that was HOT.)
As for some of the others, what’s up with Milkoskey? She used to be good — now, she’s worthless. Orrin Hatch is ever the sleazeball. What does Kennedy see in him? He lies with consummate conviction. Jeff Sessions? The South will swallow any crap as long as it’s wrapped in authority. I blame Booth. Let’s give Alabama $100 billion and see if they can learn ANYthing. He might be the stupidest fool on the floor. I can’t even grapple with what is in Kyl’s head — it’s hard to wrestle a vacuum. Specter? Oh, dear god. Please let me write his autobiography. “I’m so tough, I’m a prosecutor, I’m a complete patsy.” This was a disheartening display of what can get elected and then think they’re Cicero.
Let me finish by going back to Dodd. He actually was Cicero. I have been wondering whether to vote for Edwards or Kucinich or Dodd, but now I know. Dodd stood up and spoke the truth.
Didn’t see Obama or Clinton taking a stand, btw. Nor Kerry, my own weak-kneed Senator. It’s not like he had something else to do.
President Dodd.
It wouldn’t surprise me one bit.
The communications infrastructure should be take into state ownership for the benefit of all.
HOW DO YOU LIKE THEM APPLES? HAH? HAH?
A boy can dream.
Well, if a Democrat were actively suicidal s/he would ask for the Connecticut Crapweasel’s endorsement. (I forget who I stole that nickname from, and I’m sorry… I’m not that creative.)
Congratulations to FDL!
Congratulations to Senator Dodd!
I think we have under-estimated how badly Reid wants to pass Bush’s budget before the break. Tabling the telecom bill in the face of Dodd’s opposition is the only way he could get that done. Although it feels good, I’m not sure it means much except that he under-estimated Dodd’s resolve.
The man with the biggest, hardest nutmegs in the senate, Senator Chris Dodd.
Sounds good to me. Better than some of the others floating around.
I have a very practical question about this for those with more political experience than me.
I communicate with my Senators frequently via e-mail. Being a professor, I tend to write long detailed comments. I do receive tailored–but obviously boilerplate–replies that indicate that some staffer has read at least some of the content and sent me the appropriate canned response.
Is this more or less effective than calling on the phone and saying: “Telecom immunity. DO NOT WANT!”?
de-de-de-de….
Too funny.
Someday are just better than others. Thank you Senator (worthy of that title) Dodd. The next bush has to be even greater than this one. We can’t let up for a moment. Thank you Jane for keeping this front and center.
Just an ugly thought (I’m so well conditioned by this Administration I just expect a dirty play), can a few senators pull something underhanded while everyone is on vacation? Like what?
makes sense if that was the agreement. he gives up 24 hours and gains a couple of weeks.
That’s where it all goes eventually. President Bush prefers it to go away WITHOUT having to make that assertion, by getting Congress to declare lawsuits against the telcoms off limits, as a matter of statute instead of as a matter of affirmative defense.
Either way, the issue goes down the rabbit hole. The possibility of telecoms getting off via executive edict (state secret) makes it all the more odd that Congress would render its past body of law a nullity. If the telecoms get immunity for past violations, then ANY privacy law that Congress passes should be written off as a joke.
I have heard that phone calls get more attention than emails, and that hand-written notes via post office get the most attention.
Makes one wonder if this was all worked out well in advance of today’s drama. I have the feeling that Senate business is done out of the publics view and then they “play” is done for C-Span2.
Well I’m going to sleep tight tonight knowing the two junior senators, Hillary and Obama, are out doing the nation’s business. Good Lord.
uhoh. I just had a chilling thought. I wonder what the thugs have in store for our boy. Somehow they always manage to get everybody by the short hairs.
Wow! I’ve got goosebumps! Thank you Senator Dodd. I watched you twice today on the floor of the Senate and you were fantastic! You’re a true patriot of this country. ;-)
LOL!
What then no need for oversite or permission the fox would already be in the hen house and you know would happen then. Big Brother’s big Brother would be watching us.
Don’t forget Mikulski on the bad list, too.
Well I had a question that is thankfully now a lot less pressing than it was just minutes ago. But…getting a head start on January…
…can someone remind me why Senate approval of immunity is the end game? Why couldn’t it be stripped out in conference, to use a GOP tactic? Does the House version have immunity too?
I have heard that actual letters aren’t much good because they get screened for terra, and consequently take forever to reach the intended recipient. Phone calls probably best.
Just made a contribution to Dodd’s campaign, together with this comment:
probably the most effective thing you can do is to show up at their local offices.
number 2 & 3 are phoning and faxing
number 4 is email.
…. i’m just guessing here, it would better to hear directly from staff in the senators’ offices.
Harry Reid. Standing in Dodd’s shadow. Dodd has shown courage that this Democrat hasn’t seen since Nancy and Harry took over.
Frankly, I think they just push back on the chance something will happen to make Dodd weaken or join their side or some unforseen wish. The other side does this all the time in court – maybe the witness won’t show up (accident over the mountain pass) and they get a reprieve.
I guess all of my long-winded passionate e-mails just end up as a tick mark on a sheet of paper under “telecom immunity; not in favor” (or whatever).
The best part all day was how the Puke’s arguments got weaker and weaker, until they were completely on the defensive and making no sense at all (not that they did before)…Hatch’s lash-out at the blogs seemed to be the last straw….they looked “Redickulous”!!!!
well she did say, and I quote, “hand-written notes via post office get the most attention.” ;)
Someone here said that envelopes have to be opened and screened for anth**x, etc., but that postcards breeze right through. You might try those …
Agreed. Who the heck will buy lunch if not AT&T?
Ooops, the NYT sort of jumped the gun with this article about action earlier today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12…..ref=slogin
Passage of the motion to proceed was inevitable anyway, and it would have passed at about 6 p.m tomorrow. So yeah, I agree that stating the inevitable isn’t newsworthy. An alternative procedure (not followed) would have been for the motion to proceed to be withdrawn, to be reintroduced in the next session of Congress.
I’m of a mind that whatever the pending business is at the point of adjournment sine die, is NOT the pending business at the start of the 2nd session of the 110th Congress. Which would make the fact that S.2248 is now pending moot. It will lose its “pending” status when the 1st session of the 110th Congress is disbanded.
I send handwritten notes or postcards to the local offices
Oh….that is hilarious!!
Also time to check the political winds and the reaction of the MSM noise machine. I think the final outcome will depend on how the “leadership” thinks that stopping this bill will affect the ‘08 election.
It can be stripped out in the conference committee, and, no, the house bill does not include telcom immunity…
I was thinking more along the lines of the FCC, or the Post Office in the UK before Thatcher sold it. It was a more innocent time, before people had forgotten why we fought WW2. Google the history and organisational structure of the BBC.
“Alison Stewart has changed her look; she straightened her hair. I like it! She’s a very pretty young woman!”
I haven’t seen her new look yet, but she has IMHO just the right amount of sass and snark. It comes naturally to her, and she’s also a smart cookie. Oh, yes, and that last sentence, too.
Bob in HI
10 voted against the retro immunity amendment Dodd, Wyden, Hawkins, Kerry, Menendez, Boxer, Brown, Cantwell, Cardin, Feingold.
Biden, by the way, voted merely Present.
Hugh, say it isn’t so… the NYT caught with its pants down again??? Pardon me, while I turn discreetly away and let them collect themselves.
Experience? Dodd. Change? Dodd. Leadership? Dodd. Courage? Dodd. What’s left to discuss?
Good point.
I left out Russ! How could I? He was spellbinding!! The guy has this quiet intensity that makes you listen to every word. That comes from his believing every word he says.
Dodd/Feingold. My ticket. Why should I settle for less?
They wouldn’t blow off the Constitution like Sessions did: “When we got hit with terrorism, some people wanted to hide behind the Constitution.” Yeah, you stoopit shit! Read your f*cking oath, yuh moran! If there was ever a time to saw off the south, this is it.
We should demand a retraction….
Oh, excellent. You rock.
that would be good! an extra 3 days! every little bit of possible monkey wrenching adds up to make the cost of immunity higher (so long as dodd and feingold et al. do not back down)
Yes to Russ!!!
But why didn’t someone have a chart showing which Senators had received what from the telecoms? That would have made for some interesting teevee.
If that is the case, wouldn’t that mean that immunity is still off the tables as it is written now?
While they are busy retracting things, can we get them to retract Keller, too???
Wonder why Leahy kept his powder dry today………….
“Dewey beats Truman!”
heh
LOL! I can’t get through these comments. I’m supposed to be making dinner but you guys are killing me.
I hope Dodd’s wearing a wire when the Telco’s reps come to him over X-mas and offer him something in order to STFU. /s
the amendment was not voted on – that was the cloture vote on the motion to proceed.
I forgot “sometimes”
Maybe this is the grand plan…run it down to the wire in the first week of Feb….and then kablambo!
Yes, I wonder? I wanted to ask if he had spoken before, wondering if I’d missed him. What is he up to? I know without question that Leahy is totally opposed to telecom immunity and his heart is in this issue. What is he doing? I’ll call again tomorrow.
It’s going to be interesting to see Dodd work his abilities to influence his peers. He can’t count on Harry. If someone said NO he’s cry but Dodd would engage them until their
excusesarguments evaporated.I’ll bet you anything that Barb “Like my wig?” Milsowski got a big chunk from the telecoms. “We were hit…blah, blah, blah.” Shut up, you stupid cow.
leahy signed the cloture petition (submitted friday). you might want to give him a bit of hell for that.
President Dodd.
Why does Reuters have this headline:
Bush’s phone immunity bill wins Senate vote
Wasn’t it postponed?
No matter what happens in the end, Dodd showed himself to be the real person of the moment!!! He rose to the occasion, and that is what we need. Russ too, of course, but he didn’t have the campaign pressures Dodd has…the others….oh, well…you slow, you blow.
Today shows how Americans can take back their country.
Get one strong elected representative to stand up.
Eventually, good ideas win out.
have to argree with this post. This was only teh first round, even though it was nice to see a senator articulate stunning principles without reading a speech. Brains on evidence there. always refreshing in this age of political cretins. This is only the first round. Will they all be so strong in January? THAT is what remains to be seen. Me– i think it’s hopeless most of the time. The most encouraging thing i heard all day was Kennedy’s Prelude on the Afternoon of an Impeachment. I can only hope someone in House will pick up on it.
You all make my day though. Smart and funny. Nice to know you’re there.
“I just can’t shake the feeling that there is more to this than Reid backing down. What is really going on?”
Someone said (was it Sen. Reid?) that Leahy and a few others (Rockefeller & DiFi?) were working on a compromise bill. I think that the deal is that they didn’t have time to work it up. They will do it by the time Congress re-convenes in January. I think instead of amnesty, the bill will feature some kind of limited liability that would apply only to situations where the Telcoms could prove that they had written assurances from the AG and Prez that what they were doing was legal.
But I’m guessing. And of course if the written assurances were wrong, it will in effect hold the AG & P responsible for providing false assurances. Which would be kinda like substitution, so they’ll probably have snarlin’ Arlen on board for it.
Bob in HI
I just made my first contribution to a presidential hopeful this cycle.
That’s not an endorsement, but it’s a serious reward for real leadership when it counts.
Since immunity is interfering in the the justice system why don’t we demand loudly that those Senators who have taken money from the telecoms recuse themselves from voting on conflict of interest grounds. Any judge in a position to dismiss all these suits would be subject to that standard, would they not?
Perhaps a point we should hammer in the weeks ahead…may provide some cover for anyone on the fence.
I hear you you like you could trust them.
I’d say that’s pretty significant.
And as far as I can see, the pulling of the FISA bill doesn’t change the dynammics at all.
Dodd showed he can really debate, speak without notes, he knows his stuff. He ran rings around the pro-spy on Americans, pro-torture, pro-unitary executive, Republicans. That is what a leader does. That is what our foreign and domestic policy needs. Logic, knowledge, intelligence and Dodd has No Fear!!! (and Russ too)
It just means that as a matter of parliamentary procedure, there would be another motion to proceed to S.2248. The substance of what will be be pending will still be S,2248 including the amnesty. Opponents of amnesty have to pass an amendment stripping that from the bill, and THEY will need 60 votes to overcome objection from the other side.
The fact that the starting point in the Senate will be a bill WITH amnesty, makes the final product much more likely to include that amnesty.
Thanks, Selise. I’ve been using the wrong words all day today. Arggghh.
yes, but it did sound as though they are going to go back to negotiations to see if there is some kind of alternative compromise that can be written.
i had the same feeling once i settled down.
This is so great! Alison Stewart giving Dodd his props on this FISA thing. I think she’s presenting this perfectly! Then, Sam Seder to comment on, for one thing, why Biden, Clinton, and Obama said they would help and then they didn’t show up.
learning experience for all of us… started at ground zero last week. but it helps to have lots of smart people working together here at fdl!
Dodd made some outstanding speeches and showed great focus today, and the other 3 Presidential Candidates showed how much they didn’t care.
I don’t see how this changes the dynamic for the outcome on S. 2248 one scintilla though.
I just gave money to the Dodd campaign. I don’t think he has a chance in hell, but he mad a stand of conscience today, and so far, he’s the only guy in the field who’s done so.
It takes a big set to do that in this day and age. Dodd is the very first Dem in the past seven years to stand up to Bush and say “NO! Come to think of it, FUCK NO!”
This kind of action is needed on the part of people from all walks of life – those who will stand up to republicans and say “NO! Come to think of it, FUCK NO!” Those who will stand up to Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Joe Lieberman and the other Blue Dogs (they ARE Blue dogs) and say “GROW A SPINE! STOP CAVING! STOP BACKING DOWN!
I am proud of Senator Dodd. I wish I could vote for him in CT but it’s too friggin cold there.
Well done, Senator Dodd. Salud!
Well, make way for the Mountaineers!
I just gave money to the Dodd campaign. I don’t think he has a chance in hell, but he made a stand of conscience today, and so far, he’s the only guy in the field who’s done so.
It takes a big set to do that in this day and age. Dodd is the very first Dem in the past seven years to stand up to Bush and say “NO! Come to think of it, FUCK NO!”
This kind of action is needed on the part of people from all walks of life – those who will stand up to republicans and say “NO! Come to think of it, FUCK NO!” Those who will stand up to Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Joe Lieberman and the other Blue Dogs (they ARE Blue dogs) and say “GROW A SPINE! STOP CAVING! STOP BACKING DOWN!
I am proud of Senator Dodd. I wish I could vote for him in CT but it’s too friggin cold there.
Well done, Senator Dodd. Salud!
imo, the three of them look like idiots now.
we need to give them some alternatives
it’s true a corporation should give some kind of latitude when faced with a national threat
the lawyers on this site should put together some kind of proposal that protects industries that had our best interest in mind
this should be easy to do, for instance;
“if you can demonstrate that the data collected was a direct request with the signature of the president, and that you had a reasonable reason to believe the information requested was not for their personal gain, we will grant episodal amnesty”
iamal
but something along those lines would be a nie way to shove it up the president’s butt
for instance, these companies would have to demonstrate a direct request in writing from the president and then prove that information was not data mining
they of course will throw the president under the bus in order to stay out of jail
I’m pretty sure something could be written along those lines that would give all the appearance of granting amnesty to any action that was taken in good faith, but in fact would have the affect of documenting exactly what was requested by this administration.
Now that the Motion to Proceed was passed, would it be correct to say that Reid cannot pull it? And that it still needs 60 votes to close debate?
And that any amendments to the bill as it stood this morning need 60 votes?
I tend to think that the cloture vote might end up being a lot closer than this morning’s vote.
Can representatives of The House, which passed a bil *without* retroactive immunity, dig in and refuse to budge on that issue, and thereby kill the bill?
Hate to be off here in the weeds, but the ’site meter’ shows that today was not a heavy usage day — it was a typical weekday for number of visits.
Query: What’s wrong with the site? And it is this site, not any of the others that I have visited. Is there something at FDL that explains the very odd behavior today? Or not?
(Can’t load this comment: ‘database error’ again.)
“I just can’t shake the feeling that there is more to this than Reid backing down. What is really going on?”
Someone said (was it Sen. Reid?) that Leahy and a few others (Rockefeller & DiFi?) were working on a compromise bill. I think that the deal is that they didn’t have time to work it up. They will do it by the time Congress re-convenes in January. I think instead of amnesty, the bill will feature some kind of limited liability that would apply only to situations where the Telcoms could prove that they had written assurances from the AG and Prez that what they were doing was legal.
Bob in HI
the administration has invoked national security to prevent the telcos from even showing what assurances and promises they were given by the adminstration.
Seems to me that Harry is very, very afraid of filibusters – no matter what side they come from.
Post cards are good, because they’re not sealed envelops, so they don’t get held up. Staffers like them, too, because they don’t have to be sliced open, and are shorter and to the point.
Next are Faxes, I think. Phone calls are quicker, but just remember no matter how much you say, you may just wind up as a tick mark under a category heading that may or may not pertain to your real concerns.
Bob in HI
Here’s Huffpo’s response…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..77220.html
Winning–it’s not just for Republicans anymore.
From RawStory…
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._1217.html
cbolt – if you are still around….. dodd said something about how reid could have taken actions to make dodd’s efforts more difficult today. do you have any idea what kind of thing he was referring to? thanks!
good to know. seems like the Rs have had this figured out from the begining.
woo hoo!!!
Reid can schedule other bills around the FISA bill. He just “sets it aside,” in this case because to take it would take all the time between now and the end of the 1st session of the 100th Congress, and he needs to get other things through.
Once it is taken up for debate, sometime in January, any contentious amendments will require 60 votes to get past objections. Likewise, if the final bill is considered contentious (and it will be, one way or the other), there will be a cloture motion filed to limit the time before moving to a vote on final passage.
In principle, yes. And that would be a good way to kill this bill but for the fact that the House wants to pass some form of FISA bill. If it wanted to kill it outright, it would stand a chance of accomplishing that goal by insisting on “no amnesty.” But when push comes to shove, and part of a bill is perceived as “must have,” then the Senate usually gets its way. See last week and the energy bill, where the Democrat majority’s will to tax oil companies was thwarted by minority objection in the Senate.
The conference committee process presents numerous opportunities for further obstruction by individual Senators, as well. Object to sending the bill to conference, object to the naming of conferees, object to taking up the conference committee report, etc. The process can be very substantially delayed by a determined objector, but usually isn’t because payback is a bitch.
The Huffington Post said, “”I want to thank the leader [Sen. Reid],” he said. “This is an awkward time. We want to get the bill done. My longstanding concerns were over retroactive immunity. Look forward to coming back in January. And hopefully between then and January a suggestion can be made to compromise without granting full immunity…I appreciate the fact that we will not have to pursue this further.”"
“compromise without granting full immunity”…I don’t like the sound of that…but it may be the best we can get. I wonder what Dodd has in mind.
I thought Mary’s compromise that Christy highlighted in an earlier thread today is a reasonable one. Perhaps that is what we should press for.
I don’t think there is any procedural “silver bullet” to speed legislative progress that faces objection. All Reid could have done was cast the objection as unreasonable obstruction, that is, try to paint Dodd as foolish for holding firm against the inevitable. That tactic usually works, BTW, as it is uncommon for a Senator in a small minority to hold firm on an extended plan of slowing action. Senator Coburn is a good example of a Senator who often objects, but rarely uses the tools at his disposal to delay action beyond the time it takes him to express the reason he objects to something. His objections are inevitably overruled by vote, or he withdraws them to avoid pissing off his peers.
As majority leader, Reid has certain powers over the other Senators when it comes to agreeing to let other, unrelated matters come up for consideration, and that behind-the-scenes wheeling and dealing is always in play.
In my experience the term “Baltimorons” was mainly a term used by snooty Washingtonians who somehow think it will insult us or hurt our feelings. Yeah right. ;)
Dodd’s leadership and words were inspiring, but I don’t see the dynamic of the Republicans and the predominantly cowing Democrats to grant immunity when they don’t even know exactly what they’re immunizing change a scintilla.
Thank you Senator Dodd!!
thanks. that makes sense to me.
I can’t immagine what compromise would work that grants any immunity for companies with lawyers who make six figures who knew damn well they were blowing off a gamut of wiretapping laws.
Feinstein’s/Nelson’s amendment is ludicrous. Feinstein proposed to let a secret court who refused last week to even release its rulings (Bates’ opinion) to Americans become the arbiter of whether the Telcos should get immunity.
YAHOO! YIPPEE YI OH HI A!!!!!!!
I just got in from a long day of deadlines of christmas shopping, what GREAT NEWS!
Senator Dodd, what a true leader. I hope the people in Iowa are paying attention!
Sentaor’s Kennedy and Feingold, a very heartfelt thanks!
And the founding fathers are smiling down on them, and on us for having their back!
Thank you, Senator Dodd, for your passionate stance on this. You took the principled stand for the rule of law. You are a true leader and you made us all proud.
Congrats to Senator Dodd; perhaps a genuine, authentic Presidential candidate if ever there were one. Well done Senator indeed, in fact and in the true spirit of the founders of this nation.
Congrats also to FDL denizens, one and all; to Jane, to Christy, to Selise and to all of you who have stood courageously and persistantly for all that matters. Well done!
(That po’ lil’ Orrin is frightened to his knickers by ‘fear-mongering, know-nothing bloggers’ is a delightful bonus.)
A successful skirmish at last!
A new dawn may well be breaking, however, as Norske might put it, ’stay calm, pass the ammunition and reload’ (the road ahead is long, mostly uphill and filled with treacherous obstacles).
Today definitely provided the measure of our better Senators as well as those lesser snivelings who are an embarrassment to the spirit of real Democracy, not to mention truth and justice.
I like Mary’s proposal, too. It poses no obstacle to prosecution and discovery for what happened, it takes away a talking point, and still leaves CEO’s on the hook now and in the future. I’m willing to give away six weeks’ of activity for that. The Patriot Act is a perfect demarcator because they can’t legitimately argue that the time was too short to allow passage of legislation–legislation was passed! I fully expect them to argue that anyway, though; but the real point is whether enough Bush Dogs feel like it gives them enough cover to vote for it.
Credit where credit is due. I emailed Russ Feingold and Ted Kennedy with my thanks for their stellar performances on the Senate floor today. Dodd will get a contribution from me (in addition to the others I’ve sent). Christmas presents for friends and family this year have gone as contributions to the ACLU and EFF in their names. Whether my family and friends understand the impact and implications of this legislation matters little to me – they all use their telephones and the internet. I figure they might thank me someday. And, even if they don’t – their kids might. It’s good enough for me.
In large part because of what I read here, I made one of the many calls to Sen. Reid’s office today. I identified myself and told his staff person that I was very unhappy with the handling of the FISA bill. I have to admit that I wasn’t too hopeful at the time, but apparently Sen. Reid’s office received a couple thousand calls today. I’m sure you inspired a lot of them. You do great work, FDL.
Ken Dow
Chairman
Columbia County (NY) Democratic Committee
I called Senators, I emailed reporters, I berated Presidential candidates and went to bed feeling quite discouraged, quite frankly.
I feel vindicated!
I have this mental image of a phone inside a birdcage, and a kitty on the outside …
—
Are there transcripts available of the better speeches? Teddy K put his up in a press release, but I’m wondering about the others.
I hate to say this, and I’m not trying to rain on any parades, but I belive many people who are doing a Snoopy dance are terribly confused. Not much has really changed at all strategically.
I don’t see any compromise whatsoever in the future. There are enough caving Democrats so that Bush isn’t going to give an inch. Maybe people need to be reminded of that first cloture vote.
It was 70-10. Most Democrats voted for cloture. 10 of them did not. Of the ones who were absent, the majority would have voted for cloture and for immunity:
The first vote on cloture passed by the vote of 76-10 [voting against: Boxer (California), Brown (Ohio), Cantwell (Washington), Cardin (Maryland), Dodd (Connecticut), Feingold (Wisconsin), Harkin (Iowa), Kerry (Massachusetts), Menendez (New Jersey), Wyden (Oregon)]. Missing Senators included Clinton, Obama, Biden, Sanders, and Lautenberg.
If there’s a victory that the people who are hifiving themselves see, I’d love to hear you explain it to me.
There is no victory here–despite some nice speeches from Chris Dodd, Kennedy, Widen, and Boxer.
If Senators listened to their constiuents, most of whom had no idea this was taking place, and won’t have any idea this took place a year from now, I don’t think much would change.
I should have added, I see it playing out about this way. Quoting Glenn Greewald’s update over at Salon:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/
The cloture vote above isn’t necessarily indicative of how many Democrats will end up opposing amnesty. Presumably, many of them will. This was really just a vote on whether to endorse Harry Reid’s decree as to how things will proceed. But they’re well on their way to endorsing a bill (the Rockefeller/Cheney Intelligence Committee bill) which, as Feingold correctly said, “simply gives the Administration everything it was demanding, no questions asked.”
Two other points: (1) As Bamage noted in comments, the revelations from The New York Times yesterday about just how vast and illegal is telecom domestic spying has not even been mentioned. It has no impact. It doesn’t matter what these Senators learn or don’t learn. They are determined to give Bush what he wants and remove all of these issues from their universe, and not even brand new facts of obvious relevance will give them the slightest pause.
Well done, Senator Dodd!
I think the most disappointing part of the day was that the other three Senators running for President stood on the sidelines. They had the perfect opportunity to show solidarity and stand with Senator Dodd. Instead, they selfishly continued on with their own campaigns.
I was particularly put off by Clinton’s “blog” on her website. Last night, I posted a comment that noted that she had promised to support Senator Dodd in the filibuster and stated that I hoped she would make good on that promise. I also stated that I was looking for a leader who would roll back the abuses of the Bush Adminstration. The comment form mentioned that the moderators would have to approve the posting. The comment was never posted. Going back, I noticed that the only postings on that site are the “happy-happy” ones that praised Clinton in glowing terms.
It was then that I realized that a Clinton presidency would not represent any real change from the current administration. I would not be surprised to see her speaking only to cherry-picked audiences, afraid that someone might challenge or disagree with her.
Senator Dodd represents a chance for real change and real leadership as demonstrated today. At this point, he is the frontrunner in my book and it will take real displays of courage, leadership and commitment from the other candidates to supplant him. I honestly don’t think they’re up to it.
Boxer (D, CA) and Whitehouse (D, RI).
If you were watching CSPAN-2 on the net, there was a long period before Reid pulled the bill when there were some very slow quorum calls over which CSPAN played nocturnes, I think. It was a bit too early for everyone to be taking dinner, I thought, so there must be some real debate going on in the corridors.
Then Reid came back, with Dodd sitting over his shoulder. He talked about how difficult his job was (with which Dodd later empathized: “like keeping frogs in a wheelbarrow”), referred to the privacy concerns of his Nevada constituents, and stated that he was opposed to immunity. But what really woke me up was what he said about the documents that Sheldon Whitehouse said he’d seen in the Old Executive Office Building, that Dodd had not seen, that most of the Senate hadn’t seen, that Whitehouse said all Senators should insist on seeing. What Reid said was that he is going to get the documents so the Senate can judge the case made by the NSA to the Telecoms. Was the case so flimsy that it’s “flabbergasting”?
This resonates with an earlier story at TPMMuckraker, though I think Ackerman’s closing hypothesis is not accurate: I suspect Reid is running as fast as he can, that he was asked to ask for the letters, and did, without realizing how important they are going to be – because it was only during the debate today that Whitehouse, Dodd, Feingold, et al pulled him at last into the sunshine.
Those letters will be yet another fight, and if the Administration refuses to release them, then the Democrats could threaten to simply let the
DefileProtect America Act expire in February, or somehow withdraw the Intelligence Comittee bill and replace it with the Judiciary bill.There can’t be any national security issue in a telcom showing a court of proper stature what documentation the administration used to secure access to the telcom facilities. It simply isn’t a national security issue.
If this has to go to the SCOTUS then so be it. But, even they can’t see a national security letter (or whatever Bush offered) as a national security issue.
Perhaps Bush didn’t offer any kind of regular documentation, only verbal guarantees we had some knowledge of threats or something like that. But, I’d bet the problem from their side is an inconvenient inability to back up their claims with evidence for a court to review.
It’s looking more and more like there has been a clear violation of the law and the telcoms are probably going to be able to provide ample evidence of it. BushCo must be hating this fight.
If one good thing comes out of this administration it will be that at some point the power of this government shall be distributed and checks & balances should be regained with a court deciding on just how egregious the Bush administration has been.
Already a court has said the WH entry logs are not private. Now it’s time for a court to rule that a NSL or whatever Bush offered the telcoms is also admissible in court and the showing in a proper court is not in any way a national security problem. After all, aren’t the courts part of the national government, just the same as Congress and the Executive branch? If we can’t come to that realization, then we have no tripartite government and no checks & balances and no Democracy. So, we must.
There were a lot of remarks about Bush’s argument re: telecoms financial “ruin” if they are not granted immunity:
1) that suggests that those who argue for amnesty presume the telecoms would lose their case at trial.
2) But bankruptcy? 23 October 2007:
AT&T’s 3rd quarter “net” income rose 41.5%
AT&T’s “net” income total for the 3rd quarter in 2007: $3.06 billion
AT&T’s “net” income total for the 3rd quarter in 2006: $2.17 billion
That is net income for one quarter. So the “bankrupt” argument is moot.
Plus bottom line this is not about money it is about oversight and the rule of law, Americans’ privacy and checks-and-balances.
If the telecoms get immunity, then Bush is off the hook. It also leads to other dangers as mentioned in many of the comments above.
The essential and fundamental principle that has kept America from falling under a tyrannical government was that “no man is above the law.” But Bush & Cheney have many-times-over put themselves shamelessly above the law, domestically and internationally, disregarded Constitutional restraints, and without compunction have sought to belie, mislead and manipulate the public.
The phrase “we’re at war” has led to a brutal assault on America’s constitutional democracy. It has been used as an excuse to suspend justice, the rule of law, moral principles and human decency. The architectural deconstruction of our system of government, the suspension of the law and the rejection of moral principles because “we are at war” are the anti-thesis of a democratic government and bear no legitimacy in justice.
The purpose of government is to protect and generate the welfare of the people. But Bush pursues his own political goals of power while lessening executive and government accountability. His strategy to forge and fortify executive power is being cemented into place so its penetrability and reversal will be extremely difficult. It is no exaggeration that all of the GOP presidential candidates embrace Bush’s overreaching plan to establish an executive who rules by fiat.
Their perverse abuse of power is changing the way government operates while destroying America’s form of democracy and freedom.
America cannot be destroyed from external threats, but it can be destroyed from the inside. And that is exactly what Bush & Cheney are doing.
thanks, again, Jane.
whether or not the amnesty gets taken out, the point has been made. if Chris Dodd’s support grows from this event other democrats may take notice and begin acting less like sheeple. i’m not a pollyanna so i’m still skeptical that this is more than a small strategic battle won but, hey, i’ll take it. the long march to a really progressive Democratic Party is very long, indeed, and we must have determination, patience and resolve. rock on.
haven’t been around lately, the workload has been crushing. miss you guys …..
This whole thing makes me more suspicious than happy. Like maybe they pulled the bill to ensure that the major candidates (yeah, you, clinton and obama) would not have to go on the record on an issue that people clearly care about, at least not before the first round of primaries.
The Battle of the Monacacy, in Frederick, Maryland, was a defeat, in that the Federal forces did not send the Confederates running back to Virginia. However, by delaying the Confederate attack on Washington, D.C., for one day, the Federals allowed Grant time to prepare his defenses of Washington, and the Capitol was saved. So today’s small strategic battle may, indeed, set the stage for a greater victory in January, and the Constitution may yet be saved.
Look at how just knowing that Dodd was willing to stand up and filibuster galvanized so many of us into action. I certainly did not send hundreds – or even tens – of e-mails or faxes. But I sent some, and many other people sent some. And the collective e-mails and faxes that were sent, and phone calls that were made, did have an effect. They showed our “employees” that their “bosses” were watching. Today, the telecoms do not have immunity, and Bush was unsuccessful in repeating his August victory. That’s a huge deal.
And how hard was it, really? The work was not so hard for us. The acceptance of inevitable defeat is what is hard. But we were not defeated today. And, if we keep working like we have the past 24 hours, we will not be defeated in January.
And if we keep up the good work, maybe we can still get Bush and Cheney impeached and save the Capitol.
this is what I added to my signature on the petition:
Senator Reid, I am sorely disappointed with you and your leadership. Don’t you realize WHY we the people made you the majority last year? Talk to people outside the Beltway; it’s not the real America. With few exceptions, it is a snake pit of self-important, self-serving poseurs of no real conviction. We had hoped you were one of those exceptions.
Thank God for Dodd!
- Tom
I watched the filibuster and the arguments for refusing immunity were brilliant. I was whooping like it was a football game, and especially when Senator Dodd read from Mark Klien’s testimony. This is HUGE, I immediately donated to Dodd and others should do the same.
THANK GOD, and if feels good to WIN ONE (or a half of one, or something).
THANK YOU SENATOR DODD. Having a responsible leader standing on principle feels GREAT!
siri@legitgov.org
http://www.legitgov.org
Its Dec 18 2007 and the MSM is NOT reporting this story ……….. why . .
Perhaps they need to have it spelled out to them.
Perhaps they do not see it in their interests to encourage the ‘rabble’ of which i are one.
Perhaps they need to be educated.
Thank you Senator Dodd.
We’re clearing our calendar for January also. ;->