Lets keep callin!

Anyone reach a human at Clinton’s office?

Obama’s office says a statement is coming…

EPU’d after 22 comments but I think appropriate.

I have a feeling about today that its gonna be like British Fighter Command during the Blitz. Remember those odds?
Today we demand accountibility and justice for our Constitution. Let’s get em firepups!

Just logging on. Anyone know if Hillary, Obama and Biden are coming back to Washington?

Senators have sworn an oath to uphold the Constitution. I believe the particular words are “preserve, protect, and defend.”

Oathbreakers will be noted.

Hillary is clearly not coming back. She did all the morning shows from Iowa, and said nothing about returning to DC.

Good Morning Christy,
I’ve already completed calls this am to what I’m calling the short list, the one you’ve posted. Then called Leahy’s office and was transferred to an assistant at the Jud. Comm. who said he hasn’t made a public statement yet. I’ve got his website up and am checking it.
So, after the short list, and Leahy and Kerry, who’s the next to call?
I’m also watching the Senate.

Just called Bayh and Lugar to tell them that this FISA bill is completely unacceptable and an affront to our Constitution. I urged them to support the filibuster.

Yes, on about the fourth try, I got through. They told me she is concerned about amnesty and brought up that she voted against PAA. I told them it is much more important for her to be in Washington today than in Iowa.

More important to the country, but not to Hillary. Which is why she’ll be staying in Iowa.

The staffer at Obama’s office said she didn’t have his schedule. Right! I asked her to tell him that FISA is more important today than the election. Said if FISA without immunity doesn’t pass, the election may not matter.
That’s what I said.

The woman in Obama’s office claimed to have no idea if he planned to come back today. Just a little thing like keeping your oath of office. No biggie.

busy, busy, busy signals… on hold for Clinton staff…

Rockefeller is discussing the immunity provision currently on the Senate floor. I’ve known Jay for quite a while, and he’s been my Senator for longer than that — he’s a decent guy, and I can tell as he’s speaking that he truly thinks this is a measured, appropriate and correct thing to do. But I fundamentally disagree with him on this. (And I’m sure his office is really tired of hearing that from me, but as a constituent they have had to listen to it a lot. *g*)

And now Kit Bond is up. Blergh.

More important to keep your office, ITHO (in their humble opinions).

Christy,
I know it’s tough to find good progressives in WVa. But if Dems can take out Mitch McConnell (as is quite possible in ‘08), it surely must be possible to take out DINO’s like Jello Jay as well.

demi at 11 — Actually, the Senate staffer wouldn’t have his campaign schedule. They aren’t allowed to co-mingle on that, so she was likely telling you the truth. FWIW, there are supposed to be firewalls built in between legislative and campaign staffers that most of them take very seriously.

Just read this at DKos.

need 60 votes for cloture — anyone not voting counts as a vote against cloture, so not returning from the campaign trail is the same as voting against cloture

Working my way down the list.
Finegold-busy (good sign) will try again
Obama—they don’t know where he will be today. Feh.
Sanders supporting
Menendez- they don’t know what he will do today but says he supports the filibuster
Biden- they don’t even know where he is.
Brown- will help on the floor today.

more calls to make.

Obama is in DC…

KEEP CALLING!

Remember when you call, it’s asimple easy message:

No Retroactive Immunity

No Prospective Immunity

No Basket Warrants

And Senator, get your ass down to the floor with a question that will take up a BIG chunk of time.!!!!

Excellent! If he is there for the vote, he will have redeemed himself, somewhat, in my eyes.

Rockefeller urges cloture

That’s very promising if true. What is the source?

dakine — I actually like Jay. He’s done an enormous amount of good for economic development for WV and for education issues. He’s not perfect, but considering some ofthe other choices we’ve had through the years, he’s much better than the yahoos who have run against him, believe me. *g*

That said, it consistently puzzles me that his actions don’t always match what I know is some palpable disgust about how the Bush Administration has acted. He’s a “find a consensus” kind of guy — it’s his personality, and mine, frankly, so I know where he’s coming from on this. But the GOP folks on the Intel committee have exploited that by pushing the “bi-partisan committee” button in bad faith time and time again. And with that bad faith must come a change in tactics, and I’m just not certain that Jay has it in him to change who he is to match that need, sad to say.

Still, though, we are not a progressive state by and large, and pushing forward a more progressive candidate than Jay would be tough the way things stand with the state Democratic party at the moment.

Thanks Christ,
So, with the short list completed, who do you suggest I call?
I just spoke to Leahy’s office, again, and was told they don’t know when he’s making a statement about the filibuster. I was told they would try to find out and that I should call back in an hour.

Kit Bond says FISA endangers our troops

Sorry, meant Christy…but if Christ wants to help us, I’ll thank him too.

is anyone else besides me having trouble with the Internet CSPAN 2 feed?

Kit Bond is a moron. (I needed to type that. I swear, he is one of those people that every time he speaks I wonder who in the hell put the inaccurate words in his mouth and then he was willing to swallow them whole and spit them out. Jeebus, how exactly is this man a US Senator? Honestly — can he not read the FISA law for himself? The Church Committee findings? Arrrrrgh…)

no problems here with the internet cpan2 feed.

Christy,
It’s obvious that Jay still thinks his FIL is on the other side of the aisle.

And Kit Bond is as odious and duplicitous as they come. Blergh.

Kit Bond: “a terrorist attack against the homeland might be in the works” — good lord, is John Bolton writing his schtick?

thanks triciawrites, guess it’s my connection speed. I’ll reboot.

Kit is a moron? But, he just spelled it out for us that if they had not rushed the other FISA bill through, that there wouldn’t be so many hard feelings now. /s, to be sure. and to let those who don’t have cspan2 access.

How about some evidence for the imminent attack that PAA was going to prevent last August? < <<<<crickets>>>>>

Passing this cloture cloture limits the debate time before taking up the bill. If Dodd is serious about obstructing passage, he’d do more than vote against cloture. He’d also insist on the 30 hours of debate before the bill could be taken up. Then he’d object to each and every aspect that didn’t comport with his sense of where this law should end up, forcing additional cloture motions and cloture votes.

He can take the floor and talk, or not, regardless of the outcome on cloture votes.

At any rate, if “filibuster” is equivalent to “delay,” the longest delay occurs by objecting (which results in somebody else filing a cloture motion), then insisting on following the rules for each cloture motion. Objection can be raised to taking up the bill, to voting on each and every amendment, and on voting on the bill. Each objection, if met by cloture, can result in a delay of a full day (pre-cloture) plus 30 hours (post cloture).

I just talked to Boxer and Feinstein’s D.C. offices. Both said they had no position on the bill or telecom immunity.

They did ask my position, which is that telecom immunity eviscerates the Fourth Amendment, the Senators should under no circumstances support it in any form, and they should support Chris Dodd if a filibuster becomes necessary.

Stay positive, everybody. We can win this one.

Kit rode into town on the backs of the religious fundies. Missouri is full of them for sure.

Just spoke to Kerry’s office.
Was told that he has not word that Kerry plans to support the filibuster.
I asked the staffer to please, please, please urge the senator to do so.

Dodd speaking

Dodd is up to the podium! Watch a patriot in action.

Kit Bond “Bill an extremely delicate seirous of compromises that could fall apart if changed. By fall apart, I mean it won’t become law.”

Pray Dog/Goddess/Gaia/(insert name of deity of choice here) that this does NOT become law.

Dodd up for his FIRST speech of the day.

Kit is reserving the rest of his time so he can take a break and go cook some super tubers.

Dodd’s up!

Re: my 20:

Got this info in 20 from last thread. But Obama is in fact not in DC. Staffer just confirmed that he supports FISA but will not be in DC for the vote. Sincere apologies.

Harkin- just passing our views along
Cardin- against immunity but not necessarily with Dodd. Staffer sounded annoyed by the call.
Clinton’s office didn’t know her schedule and then connected me to a bogus scheduling office recording.

Re: my 46:

I meant to say Obama supports Dodd but will not be in DC for the vote. (How can you support something and not be there for the vote?)

same thing it would seem for Hillary.

This morning, I called the Fargo offices of my Senators Byron Dorgan and Kent Conrad and asked the interns who answered each call to convey in the strongest terms my support for Senator Dodd and his plan to filibuster. My support, also, for the SJC version of the FISA bill, not the SIC version. And my plea for a strong stand against the further erosion destruction of our civil liberties.

Also asked ‘em not to waste my time or theirs with staff-written, autopenn-signatured reply letters since I’ve written such letters and operated that autopen back in the day.

I will be watching this issue play out and the actions of Dorgan and Conrad and the other 97 Senators re Dodd’s stand against the War on Democracy will tell. And I will remember.

I agree. AND, I’m hoping that Dodd gets more attention, sound bites on tonights news than the candidates who stay in Iowa.
That. Would. Be. Sweet!

is Biden on the floor?

This whole thing is disgraceful. I keep wondering how and why reid is acting in such a counterintuitive fashion. I can’t help but think there is more than a veiled threat by leiberman to finally bolt and become a republican. his endorsement of mccain this morning threw gas on this paranoid fire for me. So much for reid’s job as majority leader. The idea of retroactive immunity simply shreds the idea of LAW. I’ve had Dodds back for some time now, It is going to be very interesting who actively aligns themselves with him.

kick his ass dood………..

Re: being against cloture, but not being there to vote — it takes 60 affirmative votes to invoke cloture. The NAY votes are counted, but have no value. A vote of 59-0 would result in absence of cloture, just as surely as one of 59-41.

need 60 votes for cloture — anyone not voting counts as a vote against cloture, so not returning from the campaign trail is the same as voting against cloture

sorry that is just not true. seem my earlier comment. — unless dodd already has all the help he needs on the senate floor (and it doesn’t look like he does). they need to be on the senate floor too – if the are to support the filibuster. this isn’t only about trying to get the votes to block the bill. it’s about trying to run out the clock before the christmas recess… and that means using all 30 hours allotted for debate.

do you have a link? i really want to smack that bs down.

p.s. i just got off the phone with the senate parliamentarian’s office and confirmed my understanding of the process.

Dodd is up now, loaded for bear! Did my pestering of critters for the a.m., but I gotta go send good wishes to Dodd. Back in a bit.

Wow! You go Senaor Dodd:

A nation of truly free men and women would never take “trust me” for an answer from the President, especially this one.

“…not even from a perfect president and certainly not this one.”
I’m loving it.

This whole thing is disgraceful. I keep wondering how and why reid is acting in such a counterintuitive fashion. I can’t help but think there is more than a veiled threat by leiberman to finally bolt and become a republican. his endorsement of mccain this morning threw gas on this paranoid fire for me. So much for reid’s job as majority leader. The idea of retroactive immunity simply shreds the idea of LAW. I’ve had Dodds back for some time now, It is going to be very interesting who actively aligns themselves with him.

The organizing resolution from the beginning of this session of congress did not allow for a change in leadership should Holy Joe switch parties. Joe does not hold that power over Harry. Harry is doing this out of choice. What is behind this choice we do not know—just as we do not know how and to what extent the telecoms have broken the law. And we may never know if Harry lets them get away with it.

Good question. So, I called his office and the staffer said he didn’t know. I asked to be put on hold and ask around the office. Did so and said he couldn’t tell me. I asked him to thank Biden for saying he would support the filibuster and that it would be helpful to be on the floor to do so. Said he’d make a note of that.
Gosh, I hope Dodd brought his throat lozenges with him today.

Dodd giving history of the two bills – complements Lahey as champion of rule of law,
Mentions Founding Fathers

Holy Cow
Dodd’s really going for broke.

When was the last time you heard a politicain speak so plainly?

selise, 5th comment:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..767/421306

“conempt” for the rule of law! Yes Mr. Dodd! Complete contempt!!

I hope Dodd’s clarion call will be on Youtoob. I’d be sorely tempted to drive around forever with this blaring from a loudspeaker, so everyone can “get it” at long last. What. A. Patriot.!!!

What’s he saying???

Dodd is brilliant

If Dodd is serious about obstructing passage, he’d do more than vote against cloture. He’d also insist on the 30 hours of debate before the bill could be taken up.

he can’t do that. the rules do not permit. please see my reply to you in scarecrow’s thread.

jeeze, i really want to be making phone calls. please, please folks – if you make a claim like that, at least stick around long enough to see if anyone challenges you on it. that way i don’t have to type my reply twice. thanks

How much of this do you think will be on tonight’s news?
I’d guess none of it.

Woohoo!

Church Committee–that was my suggestion. And we haven’t even gotten to the filibuster, yet.

Then of course, it was rather obvious.

Loo Hoo – going so fast i can’t keep up – like a KO special comment – and just as vehement – classic

Sen. Dodd is calling their bluff………….

Loo Hoo, he’s speaking so rapidly, it’d be almost impossible to live-blog.
I hope for videos later, & transcripts. He is absolutely incredible.

That CT has both Dodd and Lieberman presents quite the contrast.

I hope he has a lot of cough drops

Dodd having a bit of trouble with his throat

Eric Lichtblau on wnyc.org talking about NSA spying.

I still say CALL YOUR OWN senators — that bothers them more than hearing from people who will NEVER vote for them. And, I like what one writer said in previous post — gave money to Dodd for that reason alone. Obama needs pressure as well — if he’s not in the Senate he’d better ’splain why not.

We need to pound on all Dem Senators, especially Reid. Why is he doing this? When the House, THE HOUSE!!!, actually did something right (for a change) and the Senate is screwing it up? Astonishing. The exact opposite of what we’ve seen recently.

I noticed that too. He doesn’t have to speak so loudly from the podium. He may need to save his voice.

giving the whole history of Bush, FISA, Church committee, Bush says trust me – Dodd saying thats not enough

Loo Hoo…you’re at school? Here’s the link: http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs…..8;Code=CS2

((((selise))))

THANK YOU for all the cleanup in the aisles.

I guess no one feels they have time to read upthread. They should.

Suggest anyone confused do a Control F, then type in selise, & work your way through the thread to get the straight story on how stuff works in the Senate rules.

“isn’t that enough” after all the laws we have enough – Bush ignored it and conducted his own illegaligy – if that is not shocking enough -….and still that was not good enough. Is this about our security or his power

“Is this about our security, or his power?”

Dodd is magnificent.

I’ve called Sanders and Leahy so far. No public comment yet.

The constitution (which Obama, Biden and Clinton swore an oath to uphold) trumps one person’s ambition.

If these three cannot be bothered to support Dodd, they disqualify themselves from being our President.

If this issue is as important as the blogosphere says it is (I believe it so), and we aren’t BS’ing ourselves here, what other conclusion can we draw?

I expect our Senators to make concerned noises, issue a statement, and avoid the Senate floor like the plague.

If you can vote for a person that does that, you too, have mastered triangulation.

Elliot.
Yep. Owe me a coke. What I said @ #61.
Someone get him some Throat Coat Tea.
It’s not so much his volume, but his vehemency. I think.

historic…………

second ‘enough’ should be ‘passed’
on Cheney – secretive – when pattern of secrecy divorced from practicality it is about power

Besides one’s own Senators, I suggest pestering ALL in leadership positions, and DEFINITELY ALL PREZNIT CANDIDATES.

Obama’s line busy.

Senator Obama, Senator Clinton, Senator Biden, Senator McCain: I’m sure you have staffers that peruse blogs such as FDL.

Know this: Senator Dodd is giving you a roadmap of what LEADERSHIP is all about.

How many senators have agreed to help with the filibuster?

KICK ASS DODD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

– they need to be on the senate floor too – if the are to support the filibuster. –

You believe that if you want, but there is no “talk or vote” rule. All it takes to hold up moving ahead is the presence of an objection, a hold, or whatever you want to call it. That puts the burden on 60+ senators to overcome the objection.

And, even if the objection is overcome, Rule XXII provides for 30 hours of time after passing cloture, before moving to whatever the object of cloture is — in this case, to proceed to the bill. The Senate has UNANIMOUS consent (that means Dodd consented) to skip the 30 hour delay provided for in Rule XXII, after invoking cloture, and moving on to the underlying vote. The underlying vote here is on a motion to proceed to S.2248.

So far from what I’m getting, Kennedy, Brown, and Feingold.

mentioning past state secret rulings have protected important people from embarrassment – thus not state security but power

Dodd: “worse than selling our souls, we’re giving it away for free”

Oh man – Dodd’s voice is already fading – on what day will he taking the floor to speak (filibuster) for as long as he can?

I hope he has a couple of days to sit quietly somewhere – maybe get some medical assistance for his throat. His speech is brilliant – but how long can he go?

otoh, maybe holding the floor, while essentially being reduced to whispering, would make some damn fine teevee.

Way to go Dodd!

I cannot believe that any constitution loving American.. much less a part of our government could support these tactics.

We cannot lose our democracy to fear and secrecy..

Obama’s line busy.

He will not be in DC for the vote. Staffer confirmed that to me.

(See my 48.)

Christy–

I don’t see how you can now “like” Jay, now knowning the extent to which he’s gone to gut your 4th Amendment rights, nurture a very systemic alliance between large corporations and this government where the government pays large corporations monetarily and rewards them with protective legislation beyond the Telco Immunity they are giving them, and forecloses federal cases that are protecting what is left of the Constitution and the 4th amendment.
I challenge you to identify a time in history when the Congress foreclosed such vital litigation in the Courts by fiat as it is trying to do this morning.

Because none of us has the answers to the 16 questions I am listing below Christy, I’d certainly like to see the answers, but you won’t be able to because Jay Rockerfeller has worked hard to accept the evil mantra of Cheney, Addington, Fielding, and Ed Gillespie where you know nothing about what type of technology is being used to wiretap yours and family’s every communication on line, and on a phone and to record your banking records.

As an very accomplished attorney, writer and promoter of a site that fights to protect the Constitution, I would expect what’s taking place that is being in large part facilitated by Jello Jay to this morning to upset you beyond the pale.

It dawned on me as Chris Dodd became speaking, that I feel like the colonists (without the direct threat of harm from the British army) who were being stomped on by the heavy boot of King George III. It’s a different King George Christy, but the boot is just as heavy and Jello Jay is pushing that boot onto our necks. He cannot be forgiven or admired for anything else he’s done because of this in my opinion.

only one secret – the extent of our presedent’s extensive law breaking. i am here to see that those secrets do not go quietly into that good night. the truth is not their private propertuy

And I’m so glad I’m not supporting any of the sitting Senators in the primaries who are running for prez.

Brown too? MY progressive Senator Brown???

*smooths lapels proudly, and checks lipstick in mirror*

That’s what I told Senator Obamas aide when I called.

The aide said that Obama “might” be in DC today.

thanks! left a comment. i can see that the campaigns may be pushing this false idae to let their candidates off the hook. could really use some help smacking it down where ever it raises it’s ugly head.

Give me a break. Rockefeller is behind the Telecoms 100% because they are corporate donors. He is bought and paid for. He is corrupt. That is all you need to know and consider. He serves his PERSONAL interests over the Constitution. THAT is true of ALL senators that vote for cloture. Bank on it.

Just spoke to a polite staffer at Obama’s office. Was the Senator going to support Senator Dodd’s filibuster by action, on the Senate floor, or not?

The staffer was sorry, Obama is not is Washington today.

I said too bad, because looking at Senator Dodd, I see what leadership looks like. Nice that he came out to support Dodd with his words, but someone who wants to be president needs to do more than that.

national security, state secrets, executive privilege………

all used to protect the: “2001 Iraqi Business Plot”

“every email, every text message, every phone call”

Quoting EFF suit now with all internet traffic copied. Way to go Senator Dodd.

BTW, demi:

(I got your message. Did you get mine?)

Got thru to Webb’s office and gave my 2c. On hold now with Hillary’s office. Hope they don’t jack up my phone bill too much!

Hillary’s office just picked up. I told them this issue is more important that her spending a day in Iowa, that I expected to see her on the floor fillibustering with Dodd, and that how I voted would be determined by who stood where on this issue.

Well, we can see what kind of ’support’ Clinton and Obama think is acceptable.
I will not be voting for either of them; if one should by chance be nominated, I’d have a hard time voting for that one.

Re: Not insisting on the 30 hours of post-cloture debate and the Senate parliamentarian’s statement that 30 hours isn’t applicable … the reason it isn’t applicable IN THIS CASE is that the Senate has entered into a UNANIMOUS CONSENT AGREEMENT to waive the provisions of Rule XXII that provide for 30 hours of post-cloture debate.

Rule XXII is clear on the time lapses, but the Rule XXII time lapses are routinely waived by UC. Dodd has the power to withhold his consent to waiving the time lapses provided for in Rule XXII.

Read the Congressional Record tomorrow, and you’ll find a statement that the Senate UNANIMOUSLY agreed to immediately proceed to the bill, if cloture passed.

Note to any candidate staffers who are reading here:
Chris Dodd will gain more supporters today than anthing done in Iowa or New Hampshire.

dodd gets one addl minute

The Senate has agreed, by UC, to take the cloture vote at noon. Dodd won’t hold that up. See Senate Legislative Calendar, UC Agreement #1.

That’s what I was told by his office. Please call and double check.

(whispering)
Biodun
yep… been busy. Started making calls to DC at 6am here on the left coast.
talk later.

Note to any candidate staffers who are reading here:
Chris Dodd will gain more supporters today than anthing done in Iowa or New Hampshire.

Absolutely. I’m now down to a choice between Dodd and Edwards. Has Edwards spoken on this issue?

second!

That makes this a faux filibuster then.

and it was a very long one!

Wow. Just. WOW. Senator Dodd’s speech was outstanding. Bravo sir, BRAVO!

Snarlin’ is up will support cloture—gotta fight those terraists.

Why so agitated over a few phone records? because Bush chipping away at the rule of law relentlessly. if give up freedom for security then have neither freedom nor security.

Specter up – with dodd, on rule of law

Yes sir mr. spector!!!!!!!

The Senate has UNANIMOUS consent (that means Dodd consented) to skip the 30 hour delay provided for in Rule XXII, after invoking cloture, and moving on to the underlying vote.

when did happen? what uc are you talking about?

the uc on friday night was have the cloture vote today (instead of tomorrow as provided by rule 22).

the only reason i’m pretty confident about this now, is that i spoke with the senate parliamentarian’s office this morning and had it confirmed.

if i have it wrong, please point me to some links… i’d love to be corrected with some evidence – i don’t claim to be an expert, but i did do the reading and i did check with the experts in the parliamentarian’s office before making any statements without lots of disclaimers.

Snarlin is still supporting letting the taxpayers pay the damages in potential law suits brought against the telecoms. What a guy!

Oh and Kerry’s office is totally weaseling. They told me an hour and a half ago they would know in an hour what his position is. As of now, they still don’t know. Bullshit.

I’m confused. Will there be a filibuster or not? If they vote yay for cloture, won’t that kibosh it?

No Arlene, it is the adminstration who is acountable along with the telecoms………

Spector sure is taking a long time to say: “I’ll do whatever the Admin. wants me to do.”

Read the Congressional Record tomorrow, and you’ll find a statement that the Senate UNANIMOUSLY agreed to immediately proceed to the bill, if cloture passed.

if it happened this morning then i missed it… probably when i was on the phone with senate parliamentarian… are you sure? did you hear it? when did it happen?

Yep. I just called Leahy’s office Again and there still no word whether he will make a statement or be on the floor to support Dodd.
Left the message that it would be Excellent if he would.
Dodd’s going to the mat for Leahy’s committee’s bill..

Specter – i do not know if the telecom acted inappropriately, but it is inappropriate for Bush to immunize. sets bad precedence. Congress couldn’t do oversight because of secrecy

It is confirmed. This is faux filibuster, not a real one. The vote on cloture will be held at noonish and there will be no standing and speaking. If the number of votes at noonish don’t add up to 60, then the “filibuster” will continue. There will be back-office juggling and lobbying behind the scenes (part of that will be lobbying by Telecoms via $$$) to get cloture votes to go this way or that way.

Faux filibuster.

so what else is new?

Just for the record, filibuster is spelled with one “l”.

I strongly recommend that everyone read Glenn Greenwald’s terrific article from yesterday morning, and his article from November 29, and the and the links are here–(as of a couple days ago, when I make links and then name them, they turn into gibberish on FDL and quote it on the Senate floor tomorrow verbatim and completely:

“The Lawless Surveillance State” December 18. 2007
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/

“Court orders Bush administration to disclose telecom lobbying ties. What about senators?”

http://www.salon.com/opinion/g…..index.html

17 Questions I Believe Should Be Read on the Senate that we have a right to have answered that all Republicans and Jay Rockerfeller and a regrettably large Number of Democrats don’t ever want answered:

1) Why hasn’t there been subpoenas of Telco Execs and the NDI and AG to inquire what the extent is of the use of the following acronymed wiretapping methods now in use:

CALEA
MAGIC LANTERN
CIPAV

2) I do not understand why essentially nearly all Democrats are now voting for whatever Bush, Cheney, Addington and Ed Gillespie dictate, and I’ve never seen that explained well. Why is this happening.

3) Why have their been no subpoenas recently of Telcos to ask them what they were doing or make them plead the 5th. We all know they weren’t doing “nothing to break the law” and they know it which is why amnesty is the huge deal it is.

4) The wiretapping means in all their varietiesz have never been explored by any oversight Committee–why is that?

5) The partnership between Congress and Corporations that’s pushing Telco Immunity is one of the most corrupt partnerships in the history of this country and Congress and the media have not touched it. The blogs have. Why is this?

6) Not one senator actually has found out what’s being hidden. Precisesly what did the Telcos do? What did the government do? How many ways are we being wiretapped and how much of our personal info is being matrixed and used to harm us, not to mention that the government agencies are famous for losing CDs and DVDs with hundreds of thousands of lists of personal data from citizens.

7) The Congress has never looked into the story of why Nachio was really prosecuted after he that Quest would to wiretap like the rest of the Telcos.

8) Why hasn’t any oversight committee subpoenaed the Telcos and gotten a roadmap to what Glenn Greewald has called

“The cooperation between the various military/intelligence branches of the Federal Government — particularly the Pentagon and the NSA — and the private telecommunications corporations is extraordinary and endless…The Federal Government has its hands dug deeply into the entire ostensibly “private” telecommunications infrastructure and, in return, the nation’s telecoms are recipients of enormous amounts of revenues by virtue of turning themselves into branches of the Federal Government.

There simply is no separation between these corporations and the military and intelligence agencies of the Federal Government. They meet and plan and agree so frequently, and at such high levels, that they practically form a consortium.

In fact, the House and the Senate doesn’t have a clue what these means of cooperation are. These represent an illegal merger of Private Telco Corporations and the Federal government.”

9) Why hasn’t Congress looked into the rapidly lightening coopting of AG Mike Mukasey who is parooting every line from Bush, Cheney, and Addington:

10) Why don’t any Democrats in Congress have the sense to say not providing Telco amnesty we’ll help to keep the Telcos from breaking the law in the future and that’s what the American people want.

11) Has it occurred to you it’s gotten hard to tell what if anything the Deomocats are doing in Congress besides supporting the Republican lawless gutting of the 4th amendment and our privacy rights.

12) Why is it that

Despite issuing prior statements claiming they would support Dodd’s filibuster, none of the other presidential candidates in the Senate — Clinton, Obama or Biden — have indicated that they will do so tomorrow. As the Kos has said, they have far and away “the biggest megaphon” and instead of all the insipidly irrelevant details on the road with them, it’d be consrtructive and healthy that they go to Washington for major support of Senator Dodd and his fillibuster efforst but they certainly have no intention of doing this and could seem to care less that the Telcos and the US Governments have partnered to foreclose on the privacy of Americans so systemically.

13) Why besides from Senator Dodd has their been nno real substantive leadersip on opposing Telco Immunity from the current crop of Democratic Presidential Candidates and the controls by the AG and NDI of wiretapping in S. 2248 whatsoever?

14) Why hasn’t congress dug into pressure by the government on Google and other search engines to de-ananomyze search information?

15) Why isn’t the NSA Director Hadley subpoenaed to ask if NSA put a backdoor in new encryption standards they are heavily involved in called “Dual_EC_DRBG”?

16) Why have the Democrats in Congress allowed Bush to dictate to him precisely as if he is King George III??? Bush has threatened to hold Congress in session until they pass whatever bill he wants. This has been his tact now througout the 110th Congress, and they have sat still and taken it like passive children.

17) Finally why can’t this Rule 22 tactic be brought into play tomorrow?

While sixty votes is enough to bring a measure to the floor, a determined minority of senators can still delay a vote for about two weeks. Once a motion to invoke cloture passes, a group can still filibuster the bill itself, requiring an additional cloture motion. At that point, the Senate has another thirty hours to consider the bill again. Rule XXII limits the use of this tactic, however, for a vote must occur on either the 11th day of consideration or the 15th day after a motion to proceed was made.

↑ Garry Gamber, “What Is The Filibuster All About? Got Links, December 9, 2005.
↑ “Filibuster and Cloture in the Senate,” U.S. Senate.

If Telco’s get immunity in Congress, then the Courtroom door has been shut to attempts to save the Constitution of the United States in a way it never has before in American history. I cannot imagine how any attorney who grasps Constitutional law cannot be outraged by this, and moved to fight it with every means possible. It represents an unprecedented invitation by this government to allow rich corporations to partner with them in stealing the privacy rights of all American cititzens.

Is there any possibility the Reid wanted Dodd to make this speech?

Snarlin is still supporting letting the taxpayers pay the damages in potential law suits brought against the telecoms. What a guy!

You caught that too, huh?

And *surely* the govt. will litigate in good faith, and *never* raise “state secret”, right?

Or did Arlen say that his amendment would require the govt to waive “state secrets”? If so, that’ll pass…. Right.

cboldt – where are you, now i’m freaking out about what i may have missed this morning!

did anyone else catch a uc agreement this morning?

I’m calling both Clinton and Obama right now to thank them for making my choice regarding 2008 so much easier.

A “leader” that pays lip service to the constitution, then being absent when it counts is NOT the kind of leadership I can support.

All reactionaries should read and reread your comment.

Feingold up.

Russ on the floor opposing cloture.

I called Wyden and the staffer first didn’t know anything, but a second call the answer was Wyden would oppose any immunity provision. Asked if he would help with the filibuster, he was waffling, so I said I wanted Wyden to do more and support the filibuster as well by going on the floor. They said ok and asked for the zip code.

Hum!

Mentions Mukasey denying docs on destroying tapes – cites many cases (Teapot Dome, etc) where DOJ had to cooperate. Surprised Mukasey thwarting oversite.
Spector yields floor. Finegold next

Selise do you know the answer to this question?

why can’t this Rule 22 tactic be brought into play in the Senate today?

While sixty votes is enough to bring a measure to the floor, a determined minority of senators can still delay a vote for about two weeks. Once a motion to invoke cloture passes, a group can still filibuster the bill itself, requiring an additional cloture motion. At that point, the Senate has another thirty hours to consider the bill again. Rule XXII limits the use of this tactic, however, for a vote must occur on either the 11th day of consideration or the 15th day after a motion to proceed was made.

↑ Garry Gamber, “What Is The Filibuster All About? Got Links, December 9, 2005.
↑ “Filibuster and Cloture in the Senate,” U.S. Senate.

Feingold up

I am not a patriot and I don’t care the the term or the concept.

What interests me is human rights, democracy, dignity of humans and patriotism has absolutely nothing to do with any of my core values.

It’s chauvanism and separatism and what’s the point of that?

The policies of this nation are controlled by a select view, mostly for their economic interests and lust for power, it is largely executed by CIA and other so called national security “agencies” who act secretly to advance their agenda.

We maintain the appearance of a democracy, with a free press and free elections as long as things go the way the elite want, when they don’t they lie, cheat, steal, kill, bride, or do whatever is necessary to advance their agenda while maintaining the illusion that we are a democracy with a constitution and a bill of rights.

We are not and the sooner the people wake up and take back their government from these creeps the better it will be. It may well be too late.

Don’t you think?

The UC to proceed immediately, and waiving the Rule XXII 30 hours of post-cloture time, was announced this morning. It won’t appear on the legislative calendar, because it is entered and executed on the same day. But it WILL appear in the Congressional Record.

There have been a number of bills where there was objection to proceed to (objection to take up) the bill, a cloture motion was passed in order to overcome the objection to proceeding, and the Senate did NOT immediately proceed to the bill. Instead, they sat around for to 30 hours, moaning and groaning about the obstruction.

Finegold says Intell bill deeply flawed. recommends Judiciary bill.Patriot act rushed thru in climate of fear, little understanding of what it did. good that had 6 mo sunset so senate could fix its mistakes.

Yah, it’s nothing new.
I keep wondering whether Spector will plumb the final depths of abasement.
But then, my senator is Feinswine, and it’s a close contest.

If this is a faux filibuster, do you think Hillary and Obama know/knew that, and that’s why they’re not on the Senate floor right now?

Good for Feingold! Calling Harry on bringing this bill up first instead of the Judiciary committee bill. He’s great, and never disappoints (like Whitehouse sometimes does, unfortunately!)

Feingold up live on CSPAN2 right now.

Bob in HI

i wish cbolt was still here….

the 30 hours is the total amount of debate allowed – but one senator can not use it all without a uc. each senator is limited in the amount of time they are permitted to speak, which is why i said that dodd can not do 30 hours all by himself – he needs help (like clinton and obama) on the senate floor with him to delay things to the maximum extent possible. if all the senators are against him, the 30 hour max might be limited to only 1 hour. if 39 senators are with him (not enough to block the cloture vote, but enough to drag out the process) then the final vote can be delayed – maybe even into christmas recess.

this was part of what was confirmed to me this morning. but if there was a uc this morning – it could be as cbolt describes, i just can’t know unless someone knows what uc cbolt was referring to and what the language of the uc was.

Finegold more conversational – Communications overseas more common. we have a duty to protect privacy of our citizens without inhibiting security. Give court ability to enforce its own laws.

Finegold more conversational – Communications overseas more common. we have a duty to protect privacy of our citizens without inhibiting security. Give court ability to enforce its own laws.

Sat in secure room getting briefed and examples used were just wrong.

Finegold more conversational – Communications overseas more common. we have a duty to protect privacy of our citizens without inhibiting security. Give court ability to enforce its own laws.

Sat in secure room getting briefed and examples used were just wrong.

now addressing immunity. if follow law – get immunity. if don’t follow law, don’t get immunity. Courts should judge.

I’m listening to the recording I made of Senator Reid’s opening remarks, sometime between 10:00 and 10:10 this morning. While I wait for that …

The Senate device to force voting on a motion or an amendment or a bill is cloture. There is no “I move to vote now” facility in Senate process. Either there is UC to vote, or the cloture process is followed. The time agreements specified by Rule XXII are often waived (last week, there was a case where the cloture vote happened about half an hour after the cloture motion was filed), but a determined obstructor can insist on following the rules.

… Okay, I just heard Senator Reid’s opening comment, and he “blew by” the words UC, but his comments about the process were exactly in the style of a UC agreement, “if cloture is invoked on the motion, the motion then be adopted, and the Senate can then proceed to the bill and begin the amending process.”

can you say more? when did the uc occur this morning? what was the language? who brought proposed it? did you hear it yourself?

Is anyone else noticing CSPAN-2 is not being broadcast on his/her TV?

I’m seeing a blank screen for Cspan-2 on my home TV. I have Comcast cable in Massachusetts. Cspan-1 is working fine, so are all my other channels.

The internet cspan-2 is working fine.

See cboldt @ 166.

OT, CNN Breaking News Headline: Four floors of Fox News headquarters in New York evacuated after reports of a chemical explosion, fire officials say.

Why is it every time Jeff Sessions opens his mouth I get the feeling he’s lying thru his teeth?

Sessions – horrified that libertarians separated CIA and FBI! We had to change that after we were attacked on 9/11! Flabbergasted! illegal wiretapping? that’s not a fair thing to say! Patriot Act

Sessions – horrified that libertarians separated CIA and FBI! We had to change that after we were attacked on 9/11! Flabbergasted! illegal wiretapping? that’s not a fair thing to say! Patriot Act.
We should apologize to president.

Selise–

I spent a good amount of time this weekend looking for a clear explanation of the procedural manuevers that unfolded with Harry Reid Friday that govern what’s taking place this morning. And I understand the question that you have now that may get answered with a followup call to the Senate parliamentarian’s office. We appreciate that kind of effort very much.

But I’m also invoking another strategy that I’ve read can be invoked to revive or continue a fillibuster after a cloture vote here:

The question I’m raising is in the last paragraph here:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind…..Filibuster

Prolonging a filibuster after successful cloture vote
While sixty votes is enough to bring a measure to the floor, a determined minority of senators can still delay a vote for about two weeks. Once a motion to invoke cloture passes, a group can still filibuster the bill itself, requiring an additional cloture motion. At that point, the Senate has another thirty hours to consider the bill again. Rule XXII limits the use of this tactic, however, for a vote must occur on either the 11th day of consideration or the 15th day after a motion to proceed was made.[38][39]

Bibliography:

What Is The Filibuster All About?

http://www.gotlinks.com/eartic…..bout_.html

Repoprt for Congress: Filibusters and Cloture in the Senate
http://www.senate.gov/referenc…..L30360.pdf

by

Richard S. Beth
Specialist in the Legislative Process
Government and Finance Division

Stanley Bach
Senior Specialist in the Legislative Process
Government and Finance Division

I’m raising the question that I believe Rule 22 allows prolonging the filibuster even after a successful cloture vote.

Dish is broadcasting CSpan-2 just fine.

Selise–

I spent a good amount of time this weekend looking for a clear explanation of the procedural manuevers that unfolded with Harry Reid Friday that govern what’s taking place this morning. And I understand the question that you have now that may get answered with a followup call to the Senate parliamentarian’s office. We appreciate that kind of effort very much.

But I’m also invoking another strategy that I’ve read can be invoked to revive or continue a fillibuster after a cloture vote here:

I’m raising the question that I believe Rule 22 allows prolonging the filibuster even after a successful cloture vote.

The question I’m raising is in the last paragraph here:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind…..Filibuster

Prolonging a filibuster after successful cloture vote
While sixty votes is enough to bring a measure to the floor, a determined minority of senators can still delay a vote for about two weeks. Once a motion to invoke cloture passes, a group can still filibuster the bill itself, requiring an additional cloture motion. At that point, the Senate has another thirty hours to consider the bill again. Rule XXII limits the use of this tactic, however, for a vote must occur on either the 11th day of consideration or the 15th day after a motion to proceed was made.[38][39]

Bibliography:

What Is The Filibuster All About?

http://www.gotlinks.com/eartic…..bout_.html

Repoprt for Congress: Filibusters and Cloture in the Senate
http://www.senate.gov/referenc…..L30360.pdf

by

Richard S. Beth
Specialist in the Legislative Process
Government and Finance Division

Stanley Bach
Senior Specialist in the Legislative Process
Government and Finance Division

12.17.07 — 10:04AM // link

Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) has a post up at TPMCafe on today’s debate on the new FISA bill and telecom immunity.

–David Kurtz

FYI!

Talked to staffer in office of Cardin (D MD). Staffer said that Cardin “hasn’t made up his mind” yet as to whether or not he will support The Honorable Senator Dodd’s filibuster. This is probably not a very good sign since Cardin has, in the past, spoken out strongly against telecom immunity.

Working okay for me, but I just had a 10 minute interruption in my FDL connection. I found it promising that Feingold referred to the discussion of this bill that will be occurring during the course of this week. He seems to think it will carry on for some time, so I think he is under the impression that some sort of filibuster is indeed going to take place. I also would urge everyone to withhold judgement on the nature of the filibuster unitl Dodd holds the news conference he has announced for early this afternoon (I think after the initial cloture vote).

i understand everything you’re saying – i just didn’t hear any uc this morning, and no one has said anything about it (until you did, without saying what uc you were talking about). appreciate you going back through your recording.

p.s. i’ve having a very hard time using the sight today (the new site has been a problem for me off and on since the begining, but today it’s really bad. both database errors and script stalls. not trying to complain, just wanted folks to know that if i don’t reply, it’s only ‘cuz i’m having trouble with the site.

Why is it every time Jeff Sessions opens his mouth I get the feeling he’s lying thru his teeth?

Because you’re perceptive?

They are trying to force people to move to their digital service. They did it to me several weeks ago. So much for public service.

I wish Dodd’s voice was a strong as Chambliss’s. Chambliss sounds like he could bellow all day long. Chambliss and Sessions are frightening!
Cardin is presiding, but that does not interfere with his rights to speak or vote as the need may arise.

I always get the feeling he’s about to propose repeal of the 13th and 14th Amendments.

You’re not the only one having trouble with the site this morning. I am as well.

No Republican that I’ve heard so far has come anywhere near the telecom immunity provision. Interesting.

I’m listening to the recording I made of Senator Reid’s opening remarks, sometime between 10:00 and 10:10 this morning. While I wait for that …

The Senate device to force voting on a motion or an amendment or a bill is cloture. There is no “I move to vote now” facility in Senate process. Either there is UC to vote, or the cloture process is followed. The time agreements specified by Rule XXII are often waived (last week, there was a case where the cloture vote happened about half an hour after the cloture motion was filed), but a determined obstructor can insist on following the rules.

… Okay, I just heard Senator Reid’s opening comment, and he “blew by” the words UC, but his comments about the process were exactly in the style of a UC agreement, “if cloture is invoked on the motion, the motion then be adopted, and the Senate can then proceed to the bill and begin the amending process.

Here are two recent examples of a delay between passing a cloture motion on the motion to proceed, and actually proceeding:

H.R.3963
H.R.6

Usually, upon passing of a cloture motion on a motion to proceed, the Senate moves directly to the underlying bill. That’s a concession to the reality that if 60+ Senators want to to proceed, they inevitably will — but only if enough time remains in the current session of Congress.

You’re not the only one having trouble with the site this morning. I am as well.

(I just had the database error message–try again–while trying to post this, so I’ll try again.)

I can’t imagine their motivation was nearly as noble as that. Think how much more publicity and MSM attention this filibuster would recieve if all the presidential candidates eligable to attend were present…

I’m becoming more and more convinced that most incumbents deserve to be removed from their jobs. Keep a few, including Feingold, Kennedy, and a few others. The rest should go. It’ll take years due to their terms of office, but it will improve the government!

You’re not the only one having trouble with the site this morning. I am as well.

(I just had two database connection error messages–try again–while trying to post this, so I’ll try again.)

You’re not the only one having trouble with the site this morning. I am as well.

(I just had three database connection error messages–try again–while trying to post this, so I’ll try again.)

I am getting CSPAN2 on my TV, but we have Charter Cable TV.

Sessions – horrified that libertarians separated CIA and FBI!

Huh?

What version of history did that shitkicker learn?

Allen Dulles conceived CIA.

Hoover wanted it aborted before birth.

You’re not the only one having trouble with the site this morning. I am as well.

(I just had four database connection error messages–try again–while trying to post this, so I’ll try again.)

You’re not the only one having trouble with the site this morning. I am as well.

(I just had five database connection error messages–try again–while trying to post this, so I’ll try again.)

You’re not the only one having trouble with the site this morning. I am as well.

(I just had six database connection error messages–try again–while trying to post this, so I’ll try again.)

terrah! terrah! terrah!

I’m listening to the recording I made of Senator Reid’s opening remarks, sometime between 10:00 and 10:10 this morning. While I wait for that …

The Senate device to force voting on a motion or an amendment or a bill is cloture. There is no “I move to vote now” facility in Senate process. Either there is UC to vote, or the cloture process is followed. The time agreements specified by Rule XXII are often waived (last week, there was a case where the cloture vote happened about half an hour after the cloture motion was filed), but a determined obstructor can insist on following the rules.

… Okay, I just heard Senator Reid’s opening comment, and he “blew by” the words UC, but his comments about the process were exactly in the style of a UC agreement, “if cloture is invoked on the motion, the motion then be adopted, and the Senate can then proceed to the bill and begin the amending process.

Here are three recent examples of a delay between passing a cloture motion on the motion to proceed, and actually proceeding. In the case of WRDA, H.R.1495, the Senate
conducted extended debate on the subject, after passing the cloture motion on the motion to proceed, and before formally proceeding to the bill.

H.R.3963
H.R.6
H.R.1495

Usually, upon passing of a cloture motion on a motion to proceed, the Senate moves directly to the underlying bill. That’s a concession to the reality that if 60+ Senators want to to proceed, they inevitably will — but only if enough time remains in the current session of Congress.

Look for the vote on the actual “motion to proceed.” If that vote is unanimous, it means Dodd and Feingold “voted” (or agreed to) proceed.

You’re not the only one having trouble with the site this morning. I am as well.

(I just had seven database connection error messages–try again–while trying to post this, so I’ll try again.)

You’re not the only one having trouble with the site this morning. I am as well.

(I just had eight database connection error messages–try again–while trying to post this, so I’ll try again.)

Voting now on cloture.

Re:coverage of CSpan 2 on tv

Several weeks ago in our area of n.e. OH, we were summarily presented with a blue screen at the previous site of C-Span 2 coverage, with the message that C-Span 2 was now accessible on a particular HDTV channel.

In other words, if you’re not rich enough to afford HDTV or a hot-shot computer, the cable cabal has cut you off. I’m furious, but still not sure how & where to complain.

We used to have Adelphia, but are now “served” by ThymeWannah ever since the former company went belly-up. Perhaps you are the victim of something similar. *grump*

I hope everyone realizes that the absences of Senator Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, and Barak Obama–3 crucial votes, could cause the SSIC version to pass after the cloture vote.

The actual vote may be lost because 3 Democratic Senators running for President did not care enough to show up and vote when the Constitution was on the line.

As the day progresses, we’ll see which other Senators stand up for American values…and which ones stand only for themselves. I know I’ll be watching.

but with all due respect, I suspect that no matter what Clinton or Obama or Edwards do on this issue, or any issue, nothing will dissuade prominent Progrssive bloggers from supporting whoever gets the nomination.

therefore, in the abscence of any deterrant, why should (D) Presidential candidates care in the slightest what Progressives think about this or any issue?

ditto

Cboldt–

I’m raising the question that I believe Rule 22 allows prolonging the filibuster even after a successful cloture vote.

The question I’m raising is in the last paragraph here:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind…..Filibuster

Prolonging a filibuster after successful cloture vote
While sixty votes is enough to bring a measure to the floor, a determined minority of senators can still delay a vote for about two weeks. Once a motion to invoke cloture passes, a group can still filibuster the bill itself, requiring an additional cloture motion. At that point, the Senate has another thirty hours to consider the bill again. Rule XXII limits the use of this tactic, however, for a vote must occur on either the 11th day of consideration or the 15th day after a motion to proceed was made.[38][39]

Bibliography:

What Is The Filibuster All About?

http://www.gotlinks.com/eartic…..bout_.html

Repoprt for Congress: Filibusters and Cloture in the Senate
http://www.senate.gov/referenc…..L30360.pdf

by

Richard S. Beth
Specialist in the Legislative Process
Government and Finance Division

Stanley Bach
Senior Specialist in the Legislative Process
Government and Finance Division

I am having the same kind of problems, I have just been doing a refresh of my web connection(f5) and so far it seems to cath up with the comments (I am using Firefox) Lets hope the peoples rights are protected and the telco’s don’t get retroactive immunity!

C-Span just had a message up suggesting that Leahy may introduce a substitute bill stripping out the immunity provisions for phone companies.

Dear Senator Dodd,
It is with great pride that I write to thank you for taking a leadership position on this important issue. It’s been a long year since the last election and since I could feel proud of a democrat in this country. As a 67 year old retiree from Massachusetts I have ‘lived through’ many administrations but am not sure I can survive another year of this one. When you think that things cannot get any worse, they do. George Bush & Company have done so much damage to our country and constitution….I could just cry when I think about all the people killed in Iraq (us and them), the prisoners in Guantanamo who have no legal rights, the people in New Orleans having to live in hazardous trailers, and all the rest of us whose rights have been trampled on by the administration and their partners in crime…..the telecom industry. Thank you again for standing up to these evil-doers whose only concerns are making more money for themselves and their buddies.

yeah, but i don’t want to wait a day or two to have access to the congressional record – i want to know now! *g*

From Sporkovat at 205:

but with all due respect, I suspect that no matter what Clinton or Obama or Edwards do on this issue, or any issue, nothing will dissuade prominent Progrssive bloggers from supporting whoever gets the nomination.

therefore, in the abscence of any deterrant, why should (D) Presidential candidates care in the slightest what Progressives think about this or any issue?

Edwards is out of this fight because he’s not a senator and can’t vote. If Obama and/or Clinton allow this to slide, they run a real risk of losing votes to Edwards, imho.

Christy’s upstairs… If you can get there.

Tubes are clogged…

Durbin voted FOR the stinker. Phoo!

Going back to Christy’s defense of Jay Rockefeller at #25. If Jay Rockefeller is in tune with West Virgina, fine. But why is he the Chairman of the Intelligence Committee, where he is doing a pitifully poor job? How are WV’s or anyone else’s interests served by that? There are probably many other committees where Rockefeller could do more good for the country and the people of WV, ones to do with health, education, agriculture, or economic issues. Somehow when I think of the Intelligence Committee and its work, the state of WV does not instantly spring to mind. Defending Rockefeller reminds me of what neighbors of an axe murderer tend to say: “He was really very nice when he wasn’t chopping people up.”

Durbin & Webb & Schumer & Kennedy(!) voted FOR the stinker. Phoo!

Reid up. Says Dodd has spoken with him about offering an amendment dealing with immunity.

I’d also like to point out in view of Christy’s defense of a desultory, duped Senator who never had to work a day in his life, that one would be very naive to think that this DOJ that is in favor of destruction of tapes, evidence, and State Secrets will not use this email tapping and phone tapping that essentially focuses programs like ECHELON, CALEA, and many other wire and email and bank tapping prgorams onto all domestic American communications to tap dfense attorneys’ communications with their clients to grab their strategies and gain this advantage in prosecutions.

This very concern was addressed on a pervious thread initiated by Jane by a number of Defense Attorneys yesterday.

i recommend you read rule 22 (it gives the basic process, but without all the details of what can be done). the key point, i think is that one senator can not delay the process that long – unless he has lots of help. maybe only a max of four days (? i think, but am not sure about that).

so there are two issues at hand (imo).

1. is dodd serious about the filibuster? – that is questioned by cbolts’s issue of the uc this morning – and my complaint on the uc on friday

2. are any of the other senators who say they “support” the filibuster really supporting it, or is it lip service only? – that, i think, will be show by who shows up on the senate floor to help extend the debate.

Great speech by Barbra Boxer! She covers the issue of FEAR which is used by the administration and bushes true motives. No basket warrants. No immunity!! She is telling it like it is rule of law(Quest)!

Kit Bond says FISA endangers our troops

Evidence?