I don’t know if many of you know this, but I once worked in an IG’s office. And one of the first things you learn in an IG’s office, is never to let the government you are investigating catch you doing your job.
Today’s New York Times has an article about the FBI opening an investigation into the actions of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction.
The investigation of Stuart Bowen involves possible electronic tampering, including alleged efforts by the inspector general to go through e-mails of employees in his office, said two officials close to the inquiry Thursday. It is being handled by the FBI’s Washington field office, according to law enforcement officials, who like the first officials spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation.
Now, I find myself wondering WHY are supposedly professional DOJ officials blabbing about this investigation to the press?
Who benefits from that? If the investigation is still in its covert stage, the last thing you want to do is let your targets know that you are investigating them, it gives them a chance to destroy evidence, influence witnesses, you know, screw up your chances of making your case. So, why blab to the press, unless the investigation is already known to your target. Except
A spokeswoman for the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction said nobody in the office had been notified of any FBI investigation.
”I can neither confirm or deny the existence of any investigation. However, no SIGIR official has received notice that they are the subject or target of a criminal investigation,” SIGIR spokeswoman Kristine Belisle said.
OK, so it’s not that the cat was already out of the FBI’s bag. Hmmm? So what could it be? Why are DOJ Officials talking about SECRET Grand Jury proceedings? Who benefits?
According to one of the officials close to the investigation, the FBI is looking into several issues of possible fraud and abuse and has interviewed a number of former and current employees — some two or three times. A grand jury has been impaneled, and has issued subpoenas for documents.
Who benefits from publicly exposing a Grand Jury investigation and impugning the credibility of a sitting IG?
In May, the White House confirmed that Bowen’s office, whose revelations of waste and corruption in Iraq have repeatedly embarrassed the Bush administration, was being investigated by the President’s Council on Integrity and Efficiency after complaints from former employees. The executive branch organization was created to investigate allegations of misconduct by inspectors general at federal agencies.
At the time, the White House rejected suggestions the integrity inquiry was an act of retribution against Bowen, with then-press secretary Tony Snow saying the council was ”an independent investigative organization” that did not directly follow the White House’s direction.
Oh, well, if Tony Snow says it’s not retaliation, then of course it couldn’t be retaliation. However, I have in my mind a vague memory of Carol Lam, fired for "performance reasons" just as she was closing in on indicting Duke Cunningham. You know one of the very best ways to obstruct justice is to derail the investigator or prosecutor BEFORE they have quite completed their investigation. Who would benefit from that?
That investigation, triggered by a lengthy anonymous complaint filed by former staff members, focused on a number of fraud and abuse allegations, as well as descriptions of possible workplace violations, including sexual harassment.
Question, since when does the FBI investigate workplace violations (which are violations of administrative law, not crimes) or sexual harassment? I mean, gosh, I wish they would investigate sexual harassment, maybe put some teeth into that particular bit of civil rights law, but up until now, it hasn’t been happening.
Who benefits?
The President’s Council on Integrity and Efficiency appears to be made up of senior people from other IG Offices. Could it be that their lengthy investigation hasn’t turned up anything?
The council’s administrative probe is still under way but has been overtaken by the criminal probe.
Note it does NOT say that the Council referred its findings to the FBI for a criminal investigation. It seems someone wasn’t satisfied with the amount of disruption to the IG’s work caused by having to respond to the Council’s investigation, so now the Bureau has to jump in uninvited. Who benefits?
Look, I don’t know what, if anything, this IG did or didn’t do. I have no special knowledge. But the timing and unnecessary dissemination of information about this criminal investigation looks pretty fishy.
Related posts:
- Report Confirms Poor Electrical Work by KBR Endangers US Troops in Iraq and Afghanistan
- Crazy Pete Hoekstra’s Pre-Emptive Disavowal of C Street
- Bush Officials Compromised Renzi Investigation for Political Gain
- More on Holder’s “New” State Secrets Policy
- Electrocution Deaths: DOD IG Finds Multiple Failures by KBR, Military





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Fishy? Try “Madness, Madness, Madness!
LHP! FISA fuckery happening on the floor of the Senate right now….
Oh I don’t know. Seems that something like this might deserve a little looky-see:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/feedarticle?id=7152378
LHP!
Great post LHP — thanks! As soon as I saw that story this morning, I wondered whether the investigation was intended to derail what appears to have been good work busting people for waste, fraud and abuse. Good thing this administration never retaliates against those that make them look bad, ’cause otherwise you would think maybe they had something to hide /snark
OT “Republicans use Trick to Protect Torture” (Muck). Seems as if the bill in the House on waterboarding won’t go forward as planned because of a glitch (”flaw in the bill”) that the Repubs were able to take advantage of. Right! Sure! I have so little faith in the candor of the Dems that I wouldn’t be surprised if they included the “flaw” on purpose so that the Republicans could stop this.
Who benefits? Lots of ways for lots of folks to benefit.
If the IG is corrupt, it could be that someone at DOJ was trying to help them out by giving a heads-up through the media sp they can take whatever measures are possible to clean up the records.
Or . . .
If the IG is taking notice of the various scams and under-the-table dealings, and the investigations are leaning toward giving him a clean bill of health, certain contractors might have called upon certain friends at DOJ to smear the IGs reputation and divert him from his job. Even if the IG is cleared, there’s always that suspicion . . .
And . . .
It could be that my tinfoil is just a wee bit too tight.
Still, something smells here, and given the track record of BushCo and the firm of Cheney, Addington, and Associates, neither circumstance would surprise me. Something ain’t right here, that’s for sure.
Bowen was the guy the Rethugs wanted to get rid of last year, if you remember. I bet they are still trying to get this guy. They are probably pissed he is exposing all of the corruption.
Yeah, Mini-me was the one who put the hold on.
I’m at work, no CSpan. Give me DETAILS man!
Silly me! I thought the bit about Ms. Cruz threatening to cast hexes upon co-workers was snark. In the times we are living in, I should have known better.
Once again – and on several fronts – it seems that the question of the day is:
Doesn’t anyone know how to play this game?
Mukasey. So much better than Gonzales.
Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey today sharply rebuffed congressional demands for details about the Justice Department’s inquiry into the destruction of CIA interrogation tapes, saying that providing such information would make it appear that the department was “subject to political influence.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..69_pf.html
Yeah, and it was already getting a looksee from the the Commision on Integrity.
BTW, I know of zero federal crimes involving hexing. I think that any statute that attempted to criminalize hexing would be a vioation of the First Ammendment as a restraint on religion. :-)
And sexual harrasment is a civil rights violation, not a crime
reid came to the senate floor to say how although he is against (bs) retractive immunity, he has to bring the ssci bill to the floor (no mention that i heard of dodd’s hold).
then wyden came to the floor to say what a great guy reid is and then spoke uninspiringly against immunity.
no dodd.
Except for one thing Peterr, as you know from the tightlipped man in the rumpled suit (and a host of other honest professional law enforcement types)
You are not supposed to leak or comment on a pending investigation, among other reasons, to protect the reputations of innocent accused.
What happened here, is exactly waht is not supposed ot happen.
I don’t know if this IG wass so stupid that he left himslef vulnerable and then had the termerity to go a head and do his job knowing he had chinks in his own armor.
I don’t know.
But I do know that this leakshould be investigation by DOJ’s Office of Professional Responsibility
CNN: “Bush gains the upper hand”…
Thank God Mukasey is no political hack.
Do we know where Dodd isphysicallylocated today? Is he even in DC?
Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey today sharply rebuffed congressional demands for details about the Justice Department’s inquiry into the destruction of CIA interrogation tapes, saying that providing such information would make it appear that the department was “subject to political influence.”
They obviously cut off his quote: “…political influence from the Legislative Branch.”
Great hook for a mismanaged agency to use. “It was that Wiccan!”
DIng DIng Ding
We have our first winna! Nice catch Jayt
Selise and LHP: My bet is that Dodd will be forced to drop it because the handlers of obamhilledwa don’t want the threesome to go to DC to participate in a filibuster. O’Reid is now competing with Lieberlier for top scum dog of the party.
“I’m a Home-a-landian and I’m okay”…gotta get used to the new country I’m finding myself in these days…la, la, ta, ….I’m a….Hmmm…Hmmmm….la, la, te, da, da…
Makes me wonder if the rest of this “lengthy Anonymous” camplaint has other equally compelling stuff?
I think we should all get together and hex something, anything and see if the FBI shows up.
Yalk about truth being stranger than fiction! This is like keystone cops
Absolutely. In both of the scenarios I described, you’ve got DOJ folks doing what they ought not to be doing.
The question is “why” — which will lead to the who. I suspect the FBI is none too pleased at this, and regardless of what the DOJ’s Office of Professional Responisiblity does with it, they will be looking into it as well.
Can you say “obstruction of justice”?
Reid’s on the floor asking for cloture vote on FISA…
What a wonderful Christmas presents we get from our friends in DC
Cloture vote to occur at noon December 17.
most of our dem.
friendsjackasses in congress are crooked hearted O’Liars. /s.cloture motion is going to the desk. cloture vote will be monday at noon.
wtf? the petition for the cloture motion was signed by leahy, reid and kerry – among others!
Peterr,
It’s the FBI that is being used to the obstructing.
Why do they even pretend? Why not just close it all up and let Bush take full control from now on?
no – wish dodd was on the floor now to give his position – especially as reid, i think, mischaracterized the situation.
Why would Leahy agree to fuck over his own bill?
Mukasey is no more a political hack than was former Nixon AG John Mitchell.
AP – Attorney General Michael Mukasey refused Friday to give Congress details of the government’s investigation into interrogations of terror suspects that were videotaped and destroyed by the CIA. He said doing so could raise questions about whether the inquiry is vulnerable to political pressures.
Just heard Randi Rhodes
talk to Robert Wexler and promote his website.
http://www.wexlerwantshearings.com.
This is a CHANCE SO GO SIGN THE PETITION to Impeach
Cheney
As I said earlier, this is a last straw issue for me. That these three signed it, is the linchpin. I am no longer a Democrat, will no longer support Dems, and will work my butt off to get a viable third party into place that will be accountable, moral, and will support the constitution. I am sure there are many both on the left and the right who have been fed up with both sides and will now be ready to start something new.
Leiberfreak is not part of the Party anymore unless we’re talking about the DINO party.
None of the Senate candidates for President voted on the Farm bill (around 3:30 this afternoon). Biden, Clinton, Dodd, Obama and McCain all did not vote, so I presume they were not there.
Does it mean anything that immediately after submitting the motion for cloture, he then withdrew it?
True of course. But he also still has THE ear of the DCC on nearly everything.
hence my “wtf?”
before completely freaking out, i will re-listen to reid’s statement (i recorded it, if all went well) and post the audio. then everyone can judge for themselves…
give me a few minutes and i’ll post the link here.
OT..This is bad news:
dkos
Reid’s annnounced schedule for debate on the FISA Bill has Dodd and Feingold controlling a block of opposition time Monday.
see my comment at 42.
Harry allots Dodd and Feingold “opponent’s time”
“And may I add, a heartfelt Merry Christmas and fuck you to my friend, the Senator From Connecticut, Chris Dodd.”
So we’re in for a
stormyFilibuster Monday?Some might argue that AG Mukasey is obstructing justice and protecting his political benefactor.
wtf? not working saturday and their still voting for cloture on monday?
So now we have CalvinBall in the Senate?
This is the advantage of the NEW WAY. Laws and rules only count for other people, but they were never meant to get in the way of those who know best. (snark…obviously).
selise — you’re not really surprised are you? Leahy, Reid, and Kerry — all hat and no cattle.
what is calvinball?
any parliamentarians out there?
Reid made his Motion for Cloture Vote, it was passed by unanimous consent – then he withdrew the Motion.
I’m lost.
These affairs of State are apparently only importamt to us mere mortals! Wouldn’t want the shredding of the Bill of Rights to interfere with the Senator’s weekend plans, would you?
Notice too: it is 5:23 EST. All this timed for high drama (and no challenge).
Calvinball. From the cartoon strip Calvin and Hobbes.
A game in which the rules are constantly subject to change.
I am surprised by Kerry. Does he have Telcom $ in his stocking too?
It’s always been CalvinBall Jim. There are so many rules and exceptions and ways around things that they can pretty much do as they please when they please. Anything you’ve heard to the contrary is BS meant to keep you in the dark.
Hmmm, lets think… The same reason he called for a vote on Mukasey without having persuaded DiFi and Schumer to vote with the Dem majority? The same reason he called for a vote on the Southwick nomination without making sure that DiFi was on board? The same reason the man waste every minute of every day writing sternly worded letters. Like all the other traitorous Dems, he goes through the motions for appearances only. You should have seen the email I got from his this morning… makes me sick.
Mukasey. And the beat goes on. Anyone want to persuade me that AG Mukasey isn’t just another garden variety political hack?
Of course the other side to that is the loyal opposition has it’s say. So there are real limits.
OT..I am shocked!!!
WaPo
Reason? He doesn’t want to politicize the DOJ.
Sure kiddo, he no garden variety hack, he’s pure stink weed.
Folks I think it’s time to do some Digging here…
Kerry is my senator — I am not the teensiest bit surprised.
My sense is that Kerry and Leahy were forced to fall on the sword of the now totally f’ed Democratic Party because they caved to the fear mongerers in the Bush administration who threatened to swiftboat them on terrah (perhaps even to plan a fake attack in the “homeland” which would be blamed on the Dems for not allowing needed spying on its own citizens and the further shredding of the constitution. How apt! that shredding costs are way up in the Bush administration. There whole operation was about shredding, and the Dems now are equal partners in it.
wiki
Reid – “And Madame President, may I also extend, to my good friend, the Senator from Oklahoma, Mr. Coburn, a heartfelt merry Christmas and one quick message – I’ve got yer back, bro”.
The kind of digging I have in mind isn’t legal.
just call me charley brown.
If that’s true — Bush and Cheney should be impeached immediately.
thanks Steve
Aw selise, it’s your optimism I find so admirable : ) You keep after that football, we’ll get these corrupt s.o.b.’s one of these days ; )
I wager we also have about 6 – 12 more months of open communication on the WWW. Both the Dems and the Rethugs want none of the sort of back talk and digging you get here and in the sites on the other side. With the new network telecom bill, sites like FDL will be viewed as promoting hate, distributing falacious information, and with generally moving against the best interests of society.
i’m confused too.
and my audio file is fucked up… i’ve been having problems with drop outs all day. will have to find another audio or transcript file.
please, friends – tell me one of you tivo’ed this?
just bit the bullet and signed up for cable tv – just to get the fucking c-span stations, so i don’t have to rely on webstreams.
So, It’s off to court for him (and Act Blue). I doubt it will phase him much, after all litigation is not a scary thing to him.
To those who claimed that Mr. Mukasey wasn’t just another political appointee, you blew it. So much for your perceptive abilities.
Now it is not just Cheney and Bush who should be impeached, but Reid and Pelosi. They are the ones who will not stand up to these bullies and are helping to shred the constitution.
it’s really silly that i keep hoping.
‘cuz when the congressional dems fuck up (again) i’m one of the first people to call them on it. even to the point of getting in big arguments with people who defend them
and then next time… i think maybe, just maybe it will be different.
i do ask everyone to join me in trying to not blow a gasket just yet… i’d like to confirm everything i think i heard before condemning anyone.
Re: my #77 It was ssupposed too have a quote about the Edwards/ Act Blue FEC decisions.
My toobz is all clogged right now and the site will barley take anything I try to do.
If I were a conspiracy theorist….?
Simply pathetic is the only way to describe Widen’s phony pollyanesque statement that there are “many good provisions” in S. 2248.
There are only egregious provisions in S.2248 better named “DNI and DOJ can Jimmy Buffett wiretapping bacause it’s “whatever they want it to be or whatever they don’t want to be it.”
Where’s Margaritaville? It’s smack dab in the middle of S. 2248 roaring toward cloture.
I hope C-Span 2 has non-stop Romantic period funeral music loaded up for Monday because they are going to bury your 4th Amendment rights alive.
My gaskets were blown long ago. I’ve been holding to the hope that elections would mean something. I guess I was wrong.
I have only one explanation left about all of this….Bushco has scared the bejeesus out of everyone in Congress…they suspect he’ll pull a false flag op or something, like blowing up Congress….the anthrax mailings were the first shot across the bow that has kept them in line ever since…
The Dems are probably going to go along with anything W/Dick wants until they are safely out of office, and W’s finger is off the football button. Then, if a Dem gets elected and there is a true majority in Congress, they will go back and revisit all of this crappola. I have no other explanation…nothing else makes sense. I hate to say it, but I’m really afraid this might be the case.
Impeachment is reserved for executive branch officials I’m sorry to say. And as I understand it you can’t have a recall vote for federal legislators, so we are stuck with these miserable sleazebags until 2009. I just hope we’ve got enough scotch tape to piece the Constitution back together when all of these hacks are gone…
It’s not just you selise, deep down I’m an optimist, but this year has been pretty hard on those of us who expect our elected officials to live up to their oaths of office.
The only thing I can think of which was a signal from Pelosi that something is really, really wrong, is when she said, “You don’t know the half of it”.
LS – what makes you think they will be walk out of office without finding a means to continue what they have started. This degree of fear mongering is for the long duree (remember Spain). The situation in Pakistan possibly was the trial run.
And who is Lucy? Reid, Pelosi, Bush?
Wexler, Gutierrez and Baldwin are calling for impeachment immediately.
I don’t. I’m really concerned.
Phred: You are right of course; my point was that they are now equally at fault.
reid and pelosi. i’m quite realistic about the chances that bush will hold the football as he’s promised.
I’m so damn angry with Mukasey and those that said he was a stand up dude I could scream.
Well, today Reid was Lucy: Sen. Dodd was already to kick, but Reid pulled the ball away as Dodd came running. Now Reid’s grinning like the Cheshire Cat. (Is it alright to mix literary metaphors?)
Bob in HI
kiddo: you/we knew he wouldn’t be. Remember those who promised us that Roberts and Alito were good men. Remember what they said about the lier Hayden (boy does he look like a hold over from the SS). They lie. We know they lie. Yet the Dems go ahead and support them.
Missing tapes and Mukasey? Watergate redux. Only this time it’s worse. far worse. People have died. Damn the people who supported the new AG.
Seems to me, IIRC, about a month or so ago, FDL had a resident astrological wiccan who was fixin’ to cast some astrological spells, in the comments. Where has she gone?
Bob in HI
Old Rumanian/or Chinese Proverb:
When your butt is sitting in that chair on SJC and Mukasey, Alito and Roberts are saying No–we won’t answer any of your fucking questions” you vote them down.
I seriously think it’s about time to plan to get out of the US soon. I think things will really start to heat up after the Christmas break. This Jan you will have to ask the government permission just to fly. If that isn’t a sign of a closed society I don’t know what is.
I smell a deal brewing. They just won’t tell us what it is yet.
Bob in HI
Yeah, and they were working…a lot of oathtakers are gone….
Brisingamen!!! Where are you???? We need more spells!! Pronto!!!
Sorry Richmond, did not mean to impugn your intelligence. I’m just so desperate to get rid of all these corrupt two-faced oligarchs I don’t know what to do. And the sad fact is there is NOTHING I can DO, other than seethe with frustration. I can talk and rant and type until I’m blue in the face, I can yell at the DNC fundraisers when they call and ask for donations, I can call my representatives and email and be as polite as can be, and NOTHING gets DONE. NOTHING. Impotent. Rage. Is. All. I’ve. Got. I have no standing to bring charges via the judicial branch for dereliction of duty. Hell, even the ACLU isn’t making any headway in challenging the endless pile of secrets hiding a mass of criminal conduct — sorry the court can’t adjudicate state secrets. There is nowhere left to go. John Adams thought checks and balances would prevent these abuses — he never imagined the entire government would join forces AGAINST the public.
Sure hope so…or else he remembers the anthrax he got in the mail…1/2 s
“Missing tapes and Mukasey? Watergate redux. Only this time it’s worse. far worse. People have died. Damn the people who supported the new AG.”
Paging Chuck Schumer…
Bob in HI
Thank gawd. Lahoma is home now and has suggested I think in terms of root beer floats as a calming agent respective of Mukasey.
More Mukasey:
Digby
Phred.Honestly I saw no impugning there at all. I am frankly as desperate and as angry as you are. It is all beyond believable.
Bob in Hi; a deal? The deal at most was, if you let this through, we will not pin an attack on the Dems this week. Some deal.
Where is mainline religion on torture? on spying? Where is the mass outrage by the middle class? Where is the outrage of the students? If millions are losing their homes (thanks Bush & Dems) they certainly won’t have any funds to continue or go to college. We are rapidly sliding down the road to a miniscule middle class – perfect complement for the facist future here.
I don’t want to talk out of school (too much), but I was a t a little cocktail thingy the other night, chock full of federal judges, all of whom were debated not whether Mukasey would appoint Special Prosecuot(s), but how many, and in what order. In other words how to prioritze the scandals.
I assumed, that being his recent colleagues, they knew his thinking on the matter.
I’m still in wait and see mode. Not taking sides
Uh…you mean like Obama?
dkos
“I’m just so desperate to get rid of all these corrupt two-faced oligarchs I don’t know what to do. And the sad fact is there is NOTHING I can DO, other than seethe with frustration. I can talk and rant and type until I’m blue in the face, I can yell at the DNC fundraisers when they call and ask for donations, I can call my representatives and email and be as polite as can be, and NOTHING gets DONE. NOTHING. Impotent. Rage. Is. All. I’ve. Got.”
Begging to disagree. They’re used to dealing with rage– it blows over like a summer storm, and then is gone. I learned as a student activist that what gets results is (1) patience, and (2) persistence. Of course, you have to be careful not to get co-opted in the process. And patience and persistence don’t always work. But they work better than most of the alternatives.
Think Gandhi. And Nelson Mandela. How many decades did he have to cool his heels in the clink? And Martin Luther King, Jr. (Please re-read his Letter from the Birmingham Jail).
Bob in HI
Glad I didn’t give offense Richmond…
Bob in HI — I’m with Richmond on this one. I’ve read time and again how people think Pelosi or Reid have a plan and they are setting things up so they can turn things around to our advantage. Not. Once. Have. They. Done. So. I’m thinking this time is no different…
Think of current Mukasey DOJ as Bush hit men who beat up, whack, or snuff out anything or anyone Bush wants quiet, because that’s what you’re going to be seeing a lot of.
You’re going to see less transparency and more dishonesty from Mukasey DOJ than ever before.
It’s the Redaction Scheme of government.
And as to information as far as the firm of Bush, Addington, Cheney, Gillespe Ltd. are concerned, Congress and the American people are not entitled to a damn thing.
resistance.
But, but Mukasey is a man of faith? How could he do wrong?
-GSD
Re: My #111, that was in reply to OK Kiddo’s wanting to scream about Mukasey.
My repsonse to Bob follows
I think you mean Bringsiman (sp?) who wrote a beautiful spell and asked ius all to join in, or do you mean Litigator Mom, who’s sacrifice of a goat, brought in a succesful Libby verdict?
Actually, I haven’t seen either of them around the LAke for more than a couple weeks.
Do you think the FBI “got” them?
Gawd.
Need edit..I forgot to add that despite this, he did vote no.
Folks on Keith Olbermann last night were also opining that they couldn’t see any way for Mukasey NOT to appoint a special prosecutor. My guess is that right about now Mukasey is fighting off a swarm of sewer rats who want to gnaw on his ankles, so that his attempts to work through the special prosecutor thingy is being delayed.
Bob in HI
not even i’m that unrealistically optimistic.
I don’t know what you are referring to. What permission?
After watching the Tom Brokaw synopsis of 1968, I realize just how much of a fascist, corporatist takeover this nation has been subjected to.
A corrupt, selfish, lazy, indulgent populace that needs only bread and circus to thrive.
The jackboots don’t even need to set foot on the streets because the masses are comfortably seated on their asses watching American Idol.
-G
All three were part of major protest movements: sit downs, activism. marches, push back. Americans and our leaders have become sheeple – running around in circles fat fluffy SUVS bah’ing stupidly. Any real leaders have allowed themselves to be bought or fightened off.
I forgot, very ingnorant of history too.
-G
Special prosecutor? Yeppers. I’ll wait and see too. Do I have a choice?
“Bob in HI — I’m with Richmond on this one. I’ve read time and again how people think Pelosi or Reid have a plan and they are setting things up so they can turn things around to our advantage. Not. Once. Have. They. Done. So. I’m thinking this time is no different…”
You’re thinking in terms of days or weeks. Your time frame is too short. A chess master who thinks only one move ahead soon loses.
MLK Jr. and Mandela were not able to look down the road and see a favorable checkmate. Gandhi maybe, I don’t know. But they did what they did because they felt in their guts that it was right. I’m not talking about Reid and Pelosi here– I’m talking about *us.* We need to think like chess masters, act like MLK Jr. and Mandela, and have faith in the process.
At least, that’s what I’m telling myself (g).
Bob in HI
I’ll lay you 100 to 1 odds, LHP, that you will see darn few special prosecutors appointed via Mike Mukasey and I belive those judges are completely out to lunch with that prediction.
I just haven’t seen one hopeful sign or symptom thus far thatformer Judge Mike Mukasey isn’t now taking his marching orders from Addington and Gillespie. The orders are “No Never appoint a special prosecutor” and I know it must seem offensive and very superficial, but I belive they’re giving him orders; he has no independence, and he’s taking those orders religiously.
selise,
TPMmuck has a transcript: http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004918.php
The response of the Mik to waterboarding at hin con hearing was the hint of things to come. He would be providing cover for the admin and block any inquires.
See there he proved that the hint was true.
We live in interesting times and perhaps we solutions for freedom loving people will come when this regime is brought down.
Regime change can’t come soon enough. But how it will come will be the question. Fascists don’t retire very well.
STRUGGLE!
There’s something else, scarcity of talent. There is no Idependant COunsel statute any more, so I think Mukasey is limited to appointing someone from woithin DOJ the way COmey did with Pat.
Problem is, there just ain’t too many Pat Fitzgerlds lying around waiting to abe appointed. DOJ is hollowed out, pretty much all that is left are some heavyweights still in SDNY, and the Regent LAw School Bushies.
During the cocktail thingy, folks were asking who got scooped out of SDNY, and so far, no one knows of any. Which seemed to surpise all present.
Under the TSA’s “Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) initiative,” you’ll need to obtain permission from the U.S. government to travel on ANY commercial airliner or ship that goes to or from the United States. You won’t receive your boarding pass until you are cleared by APIS. You’ll also need permission to travel through the United States (e.g., if you’re changing planes at a U.S. airport on a trip between two foreign countries). It doesn’t matter if you’re a U.S. citizen or permanent resident. Everyone will need permission to enter – or leave – the United States.
excellent!! i was trying to piece it together from my fucked up recording. off to read, then will be back here.
…is futile, prepare to be assimilated.
Sorry selise, couldn’t help myself, once a Star Trek geek, always a Star Trek geek ; )
Bob in HI — thanks for the rationale response to my rant. Earlier on I had said things can’t improve until all these miscreants are out of office, that implies I retain hope that we will get them out of office. What I meant by there being nothing I can do is
a) we progressives have no influence (yet) on our Congresscritters,
b) we do not have legal standing to pursue elected officials ourselves through the courts,
c) hence, we are hamstrung by Congress colluding with the criminal Bush administration.
In the long run, we may yet salvage our Constitutional system. But that is by no means a given, what with historical precedents being what they are. And I do worry that all of our avenues for change are being manipulated to work against us, whether the FEC decision today or the FCC desire to eliminate net neutrality or the DoJ desire to disenfranchise voters, etc., etc., etc.
I’m a big fan of Ghandi and MLK, but the Constitution tells me that we are entitled to active resistance on our behalf by our elected representatives. And it looks like I’m gonna have to wait a long time to see any.
Doors are closing
I have absolutely no faith in the independence of anyone appointed to anything by GWB.
We don’t have a Gandhi, an MLK or even a Robert Kennedy. We have Gore who is trying to raise the consciousness about the environment. Many people get it, but the corporations who are probably the driving force behind the problem, the ones who brought you; better living through chemistry, and we are the farmers to the world are laughing all the way to the bank and buying their yachts to float atop the rising ocean.
Ralph Nadar was right. The dems and the repubs are hardly different in the end.
Just on the off chance nobody else has said this, probably even better: It seems this thing is turning into a real witch hunt!
Cocktail weenies notwithstanding, Mukasey is a political hack.
The Aviation and Transportation Security Act (ATSA) was signed into law on November 19, 2001. Section 115 of ATSA required
commercial air carriers to provide legacy USCS with APIS data on all inbound passengers and crewmembers before their arrival in
the United States. Previously, international air carriers transmitted this data to legacy USCS voluntarily. The APIS system is used to
review passengers and crew in order to identify possible terrorists or other high-risk individuals and to facilitate the clearance
process for the vast majority of legitimate travelers. In addition, with the enactment of the Enhanced Border Security and Visa Entry
Reform Act 2002, all commercial air and sea carriers are required to provide electronic transmission of arrival and departure
manifests for each commercial vessel or aircraft prior to arrival at or departure from the United States. This includes matching of
APIS flights to Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Entrance and Clearance entries for reconciliation, better identify carrier
transmission errors for penalty issuance and mitigation, capture legislatively mandated information at or before time of entry for all
air passengers, as well as, analytical support for air carrier performance. Updates and/or modifications to operational parameters
have been or will be implemented to permit APIS to handle increased volume in a more efficient manner, the collection of inbound
and outbound data for all air and sea passengers, conversion to the World Customs Organization standard for data transmission
format (UN EDIFACT) and acquiring and processing Canadian and Mexican APIS data for passengers traveling from overseas.
Additionally, eAPIS and eNOA/D are web-based internet accessible functions developed to allow air carriers and vessels, that operate
without advanced departure control systems, to transmit APIS data electronically to CBP. Small/medium air carriers can upload APIS
data to CBP, send an acknowledgement of data received to transmitting carriers, and allow carriers to view and request performance
reports. eNOA/D gives vessel operators the capability to connect to or transmit off-line APIS data in an email attachment to CBP and
provide a NOA to Coast Guard using one portal.
Sander O: My feelings too. We and our false-leaders have become lemmings. Gandhi dared to sit in, MLK dared to preach. Both had massive support on the ground often far more inclinded to activism. Who preaches now? Who is willing to sit in the middle of the highway holding up a sign of protest?
the transcript at tpm is only the first part. here’s the comment i left them:
Just to add on —
Real ID goes into effect next year and you will need to keep your federal ID with you at all times if you wish to cross federal property, including parks. Those states that have so far refused to comply will be penalized.
CodePink is laughed at by the media, the left and of course the right.
MoveOn was made to be the buggy man even though they have millions of supporters.
911 changed everything and who benefited from that event?
The right wing fascists did of course.
We are living the the rise of the 4th Reich.
noen: and, soon I am sure: you will need this ID to vote. So, lots of people will not be able to vote.
I didn’t have any weenies. I had carrot sticks, with dip
i watched everyone episode of tng. but don’t tell anyone *g*
yes, we are. but history tell us that we usually don’t get active resistance on our behalf from our elected representatives unless we are resisting too – and even then they usually have to be forced into doing the right thing.
So true! So disgusting. We even had people at this site attacking Code Pink and Cindy Sheehan. THere actions have not all been successful, but has anyone else countered in a more successful way?
“We don’t have a Gandhi, an MLK or even a Robert Kennedy.”
The Rosa Parks who wouldn’t move to the back of the bus was not the ROSA PARKS who is now celebrated in civil rights legend. The MLK who was cooling his heels in Birmingham Jail was not the *MLK* whom we now celebrate with a Federal Holiday. The Gandhi who was in the middle of a hunger strike was not the GANDHI who has become such an icon today. Each one started out as a little-known stubborn SOB who stood his/her ground as a matter of principle.
IMHO, What we need to do is to stand OUR ground, and support each other.
Bob in HI
And a National ID (issued by the States) or a passport to visit National Parks.
Absolutely: Remember all those farmers walking to Washington?
The offense probably was one of Dick Cheney’s favorite remarks: “Go fuck yourself!” and they called it sexual harassment!
Where we go in the US and out and who we see is being charted on GPS accounts through our phones and emails and library loans. And, when we come back into the country we get propagandized by CNN red meat news 24/7. The only WIFI we can have is private (so our sites can be tracked too, and eventually closed).
OK, Ann made me laugh. Which I needed. Thanks
Fair enough selise, but how can we force anyone to do anything, when we have no real choices on election day? The Rethugs or DLC Dems (would you like vanilla or vanilla)? I’m all about primary challengers for DINOs, but until we fundamentally change campaign finance laws we’re gonna be stuck with vanilla. And since the people who would have to enact changes to campaign finance laws are the same people disproportionately benefiting from the current system, I’m not holding my breath. Heck even Markos thinks public financing, and hence the Edwards campaign, is a joke. The dilemma we face is finding the leverage to “force” a change, and I have yet to see how this will happen. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not advocating doing nothing. Hopelessness is a self-fulfilling prophecy, but denying our current state of impotence also strikes me as self-defeating. What I’m looking for is a plan of attack that will work, and as yet, nothing has been successful.
i think i can make out 13 of the 17 names on the cloture petition (this needs independent confirmation!):
reid, leahy, salazar, inouye, casey, lautenberg, stabenow, durbin, carper, kerry, both nelsons, bayh and 4 more i can’t make out.
more coming.. it’s just taking a bit to work with a bad recording….
It’s a pity that Mukasey is heading straight for impeachment…he just go there. /s
i’m just saying that we are not limited to electoral politics – there is also street politics.
actually an important topic for discussion (imo), would love to discuss more with you… i’m just distracted at this moment trying to figure out what exactly just happened wrt to reid and fisa…
noen December 14th, 2007 at 3:17 pm 133
In response to looseheadprop @ 123
I don’t know what you are referring to. What permission?
I haven’t seen a blog on the “No Fly List” here–maybe there were some on the Lake earlier on.
I do remember Steve Kroft doing a “60 Minutes” interview with the author Joe Trento and Donna Brucella
Unlikely Terrorists On No Fly List
Brucella looked ridiculous trying to defend a system that has swelled to 130,000 names, and preempts anyone on the list’s right to vindicate themselves before their trip is ruined much less after. The list is repleat with more errors than a local SSI disability office or a core of INS Judges we now have who are political hacks with no INS litigation experience as DOJ appointees.
This is one more prime example of the terrorists having remarkable success at inducing Americans to foreclose the rights of still more Americans.
Brucella, former AUSA from the S.D. Florida, and Director of the E.O.U.S.A., resigned from DHS shortly after her totally abysmal “60 Minutes” performance.
The program she has in place is a disaster and fairly worthless at protecting anyone.
That any terrorist cell with a collective IQ of 3 would focus on air travel at this point with such a panoply of options open to them is a whole other discussion.
It sounds like things are about to get considerably worse.
On Dinos and the mess we are in. If we were each to start campaigns in our states which will forbid our elected officials and members of their families and staffs from meeting with lobbiests. That would change things dramatically. Without the lobbiests, we would have far less intrusion of business issues into both our legislation and tax considerations. It would mean that big Pharma, big-telecommunication would not be spending so much to corrupt the system for their benefit. Yes teachers and firefighters would be left out too, but they have other means of making the appeals.
Street politics: Yes, and not just “in the streets” we need to be smart and go after the sources (beneficiaries) of the problem.
Also Selise -thanks for your hunting!
I believe that out system has now passed the tipping point and we won’t be seeing it return to what looks and behaves like democracy.
It’s gone and won’t be coming back. The people have lost their sovereignty to corporations and the powerful special interest. They have lost the ability to petition for redress.
We have a democracy in name only. It’s all kabuki now.
Don’t let me distract you selise — you’re doing excellent work on our behalf, and we can certainly chew over ideas for how to restore our democracy on another occasion.
Richmond @ 161 has a great idea about starting ballot initiatives in every state to ban lobbying. We would have to make them binding, and there would be legal challenges I’m sure, but it would be a way for citizens to actively work to curtail the corporate control of Congress.
I’m sure there are other ideas out there, too…
Thanks Phred. For the “smart” party, Dems have been acting neither smart nor brave.
The most recent thing that I read was by a woman who was refused a boarding pass because of the list. As she was going through all the hoops, she was told that there are more than 700k names on the list and that is is so big that it is worthless for it’s intended purpose.
you’re not distracting me so much as i just didn’t want you think that the lack of long involved responses from me indicated a lack of interest – it’s actually a topic i ponder a lot and have been studying up on a bit.
WTF?
“White House Rejects Right-Wing NIE Witch-Hunt: The Intelligence ‘Should Be Supported’
Since the Iran NIE was released, conservatives have desperately tried to discredit it. Former Vice President Cheney aide David Wurmser questioned “how much it can really be banked on.” John Bolton called for congressional investigations into the “politicized” intelligence community.”
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..e-support/
Part of Reid’s statement:
“In my view, that will make the final product stronger. There is one issue that cannot be resolved through informal negotiation. As some are aware, the Intelligence Committee’s bill provides the telephone companies with retroactive immunity from lawsuits filed by their customers for privacy violations. Many members, myself included, believe that such a grant of immunity is unwise. I expect there will be a full debate on this subject next week.
“Senators Specter, Feinstein, Whitehouse and others are working to craft a compromise that might give the phone companies some relief – but allow the lawsuits to go forward in a manner that would preserve accountability. In one way or another, we must ensure that President Bush is held accountable for his actions. It is important for the Senate to complete work on this bill next week to allow time for the Senate and House to produce a final bill. Our ultimate goal is a bill that commands broad bipartisan support in the Congress and in the country. The process I just outlined offers us the best opportunity to do so.”
Not sure that would pan out very well. The right to lobby is in the constitution. Maybe down the road that is something that could be addressed but we have bigger issues right now.
ackk. there’s one work i’m trying to figure out – some kind of quorum, i think.
it’s either a big deal or means nothing.
is there such a thing as a mandacor (or mandaquar) quorum?
I think you are right. On of the strengths of the Constitution was the belief that “checks and balances” were the protective barrier. The Thugs have breached that barrier and the fact that they did it, cannot be undone.
It sounds positive..but if they come up with anything short of complete immunity, Bush will threaten a veto and the Dems will cave.
The “No Fly list” is also “replete” not repleat with possibly 98% if not more people who have no earthly reason not to be safe to fly. One more example of complete secrecy, redaction and no access to information used against you.
It is very possibly matrixed with all kinds of lists of your bank accounts, your email, and your wiretapped phone conversations for which Telcos will probably be granted total immunity next week.
Noen: OK then, PAID lobbiests could be outlawed. On more important items on the plate now. I am sick and tired of the Dem leadership who say we have to do one thing at a time. We had time for a Yea-Christmas bill to be brought out. As in Civil Rights (linked to sexual rights, the anti-war movement etc. etc.) or voting rights for women, these things need to be addressed both cohesively and as part of a larger whole. If we don’t do that it will be like the hammer a mole game – you hit one, but others keep popping up. The major difference now and in the 1970s is how much the numbers of lobbiest has increased (exponentially) and how much more they are making (coupled with how much more businesses are spending on them.
Could it be or mandator ? Both are the name given to a person employed to perform a mandate or do something mandatory
yes! that must be it! oh lhp, i’m so glad you’re here to help figure out what this means (if anything).
next comment will have the details.
Carrot sticks with dip. Well… obviously that settles the matter. ;0)
The Dems should not give a flying f*ck if Bush doesn’t sign it. It is then there fault (the Rethugs). It comes back again, and they send it back again. If nothing happens by Feb, it reverts.
Re my 172: damn thing ate half my sentence. let me try again
MANDATAIRE
Mandator
GRRr -their not there, but who cares….
Wow that number is just incredible. And I guarantee you it’s not just the sheer number of names now, skyrocketing towards a million then, but that the ways names get on that list or ridiculous.
I know there was a thread recently here, I think LHP’s, that covered CALEA and a host of other acronymed programs that data mine, all probably active even if tweaked and renamed.
Sure, I’d like to see that. Not very hopeful though. I am more worried that Naomi is right and that things will start happening very fast now. They are operating in full view now. That means they have no fear and that scares the crap out of me.
I cannot for the life of me understand why some people are so upset. AG Mukasey will do what’s best for us. Don’t worry.
Remember when Senator Kennedy was on the list? Not so much a terrorist name. Clearly politics are in it. I bet there are lots of Friends on it (dangerous anti-war people).
OK so what Do we do? Or are we nervous enough here so it is not so wise to air it?
I think it is still true that we have the most influence with those around us in daily life.
Does anyone think that AG Mukasey was not throughly vetted by the Bush mob prior to the ramp-up for his appointment? Please be confident. Mr. Mukasey is thinking about us.
NOen, don’t take this personally, but to me your comment sounds like sheeple walking around in circles looking to nibble the grass – unaware of the wolves circling in the hills above, AND of the reality that the sheep dogs are actually wolves in cannine clothing.
snark – right?!
This is a perfect model for a totally meaningless statement on Reid’s part.
Specter, Feinstein two of the most worthless and disingenuous people in the history of the U.S. Senate and Whiteside who is on record as favoring S.S.I.C.’s free ride for Telcos, and more importantly a coverup of your 4th Amendment rights being destroyed forever.
Very. ;0)
OT..Thugs block anti-torture bill:
TPM
Rachel Maddow is talking about for profit private companies in Iraq. I would add that ee also have it here at home in the Ca. firefighters (who may be starting fires for profit). This needs a real expose.
Recall votes for US Senate are mentioned in California law. DiFi would require on the order of 1.8 million signatures to have a recall election – I checked this a few weeks back.
As I noted earlier (here or at EW). I bet the parlimentary glitch was built into this so that the Dems would not have to pass it. Today was one of the WORST I can remember from the vantage of these corrupt congressional cowboys.
‘thoroughly’. see. i can spell. sometimes. i’m working on capitol letters now.
I do remember Kennedy’s being stopped about 5 times. But how long do you think it took for him to be free of them versus Joe Blow average flyer?
You think it has elements of some of the blacklists during the Joe McCarthy era?
I bet you could get that pretty easily with on the ground pressing.
here’s part of what rule 22 says:
my bold.
here’s what i think reid said, right after the cloture motion was read by the clerk:
now the second part of reid’s consent request i get (i think) because according to the rule, the cloture vote should take place on tuesday (not monday), 1 hour after the senate begins.
but why would a quorum be waived? does this mean that cloture vote can proceed without a quorum present? or does it mean that the cloture vote only required 2/3 of those voting and present (something less than 60) vs the normal requirement of 2/3 of the senators “chosen and sworn” (= 60).
or is my lack of knowledge about how the senate works (i’ve been paying more attention to the house and trying to understand/learn their rules)… and this all means nothing?
I will believe Mukasey appointing Special Prosecutors when I see it. So far he seems to be heavily into stifling any independent investigation into anything.
Steve-AR @ 194,
Good catch. Graham is probably taking lessons from Arlen Specter or maybe Harry Reid.
No Richmond, not snark. It is still very true that you have the most influence within your immediate circle. What we need is for more people to be aware of what is wrong. The best way to do that is through your social network. This isn’t new or controversial.
Cynicism is a poison that will destroy you.
Perhaps one day not too far off, Mukasey can advise us it’s legal for his string-puller to attack Iran.
I’m skeptical. Some call me cynical.
What would Byrd say? Does anyone here have a contact in Senator Byrd’s office? It seems to me that as the longest-serving member of the Senate, someone should ask him whether Reid’s maneuvers today are legitimate. In fact, it would be great if could address that Monday morning during the debate.
Noen: I don’t want to go at it with you, alas. But cynicism is in keeping with the times. cynicism: careful analysis, taking nothing at face value.
oh, excellent – hugh’s just got here too….
so what does the gang think? (i hope a lot of you will give a look at my 201)… i don’t think this is a normal cloture process – although whether it could make a difference, i don’t know.
Selise: thank you for your focused work. Don’t be offended by this, but in my eyes you are a political bloodhound.
Richmond, I wasn’t aware that we were “going at it”. Why do you feel that way? I am just giving you my honest opinion.
Another little piece on Blackwater..
Is Blackwater the Private Mercenary Army of the Oligarchy?
link
It’s a Ron Paul, World Govt site but they have some interesting stuff occasionally.
It seems to me selise that it is so they don’t have to call quorum on Monday. Don’t know though.
Noen: It is hard to read between the lines on the web, so I didn’t want to offend. Alas, I was giving my frank opinion too.
not offended… that is what i’m aiming for. want to make sure nothing gets by us.
On ss Monda quorum: I bet lots of people will be off for the holiday – plane tickets and all. They want to be able to pass what ever awful compromise they will spew forth.
right. but why not? why would it matter – unless they weren’t going to require 60 to pass the cloture vote?
On Monday’s quorum….
“OK then, PAID lobbiests could be outlawed.”
That pig won’t fly. You want to make the ACLU, MoveOn.org, People for the American Way, Common Cause, Amnesty International, CREW, et al. fire their lobbyists and make do with volunteers?
Bob in HI
I am guessing that on Mon they will gavel into session and then quickly pass the bill with those present and then move on. Then they’ll sit back and take the heat, if there is any.
Even if they do not have enough people for a quorum. YOu see, it is all fixed before hand on who will vote and which way.
but that’s just the point! if that’s the case – and i’m not saying it is, i’m only asking…
but if that’s the case, then it really, really matters that no one objected to the consent request.
Bob in Hi: Yup if that would mean we could counter big pharma, GE, Halliburton, etc.
But later, he described the allocation of time for debate before the vote. As I recall, Dodd gets 35 minutes and Feingold gets 15 minutes. Does the waiver of the extra day and the injection of debate count as an amendment to Senate rules? If so, is he structuring this to require 67 votes instead of 60 (or two thirds of those present) to move to a vote on the SJC bill?
Also, is it possible he said “mandatory” quorum?
Selise: Yes, absolutely that is it.
How many members really understand all that goes on? Maybe they didn’t object because they had no clue. That could be true for new members for sure.
What is a “mandatory quorum”? Everyone is commanded to appear?
i don’t think i hear the bit about the scheduling of the debate. is that for before the cloture vote or the final vote on wednesday?
i’ll post that bit of the audio clip – see if you can make it out. just a sec….
noen — that’s exactly my point, we can’t even get to the bigger issues because our elected officials no longer represent the public interest, instead they represent the very very narrow interest of their large campaign contributors. And their stranglehold on the electoral process that their campaign warchests represent make it exceedingly difficult to kick them out via the ballot box.
phred, I think we are in for some very rough times ahead. We may even lose our democracy. In general though I think the only route to meaningful change is through sustained effort at the local and national levels. That is how this gang of thugs took over the former GOP. That is how we need to take over our quisling Democrats. I don’t know of any other way short of armed rebellion and I really doubt that would work any more.
“so what does the gang think? (i hope a lot of you will give a look at my 201)”
I think that your “mandator (???)” = mandatory. Perhaps he swallowed the last syllable.
Bob in HI
I’m pretty sure he was talking about Monday before the cloture vote. I also think the time for Dodd and Feingold was for those opposed to cloture. There is also this posted by Matt Browner-Hamlin on the Dodd blog:
Here’s a good synopsis of Reid’s Fuckery…
If the base bill has no immunity, it will require sixty votes to introduce immunity. If the base bill has immunity, it will require 41 votes (because of the filibuster rules) to keep it from passing. Depending on how Reid introduces the bill, we can prevail with 41 votes, or fail because we cannot get 60.
The reason Reid is doing this in a way that requires 60 is because he wants to pass something. And the only way he can pass something is to pass exactly what the president wants…which includes immunity. So, he has decided to choose a path that will deceive us about whether or not he is honoring Senator Dodd’s hold, and deceive us about whether he made a good faith effort to prevent immunity.
AFAIK a quorum count is mandatory because it is specified in Rule XXII. What Reid did was call for that count to be waived, but as the rest of Rule XXII states the cloture vote most still be by three-fifths or 60 votes.
Wow, good synopsis.
here’s the clip (mp3) of reid submitting the cloture motion – please note that this is a flawed recording (it has drop outs) and so it may deceive.
I found it here…
http://www.democraticundergrou…..15;2467438
Sorry, for the bad link, but, go to DU…
that’s what i would think… except i don’t see why – they do quorum calls all the time. i just want to be sure that there’s nothing to it… and i can’t quite convince myself of that yet.
exactly – that why we were asking him to bring the sjc version to the floor – and not the ssci version.
selise,
I’m pretty sure there was a break of several minutes before Reid returned to the floor to announce the allocation of debate time.
i think i recorded the whole thing, will go looking for that bit. thanks.
so, is the consensus that i think i might be seeing something – but there’s really nothing to see?
This is what I hear selise:
thanks! and what is your interpretation of what is required to pass the cloture vote on monday?
Here is how it went down on a different bill for comparison’s sake:
http://fas.org/irp/congress/2007_cr/s041207.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12…..ref=slogin
selise, I’m nobody. I don’t have a degree. What CTuttle said at 232 sounded good to me but I don’t really know.
my bold.
you’ve convinced me – i’m on a wild goose chase.
thanks for being my senate parliamentarian, so i don’t have to wait until monday. it would have irked me all weekend.
So if I understand correctly Hugh, they have already decided today that on Monday the vote will be at noon, period. There will be no filibuster. Dodd will get his 35min before hand and then there will be a vote. Is that right?
i’m a nobody too. i just refuse to let complete ignorance stop me from trying to figure things out.
thanks to all! much appreciation for the assistance and moral support!
KO is providing an excellent synopsis…
my cable tv gets installed next thursday. don’t even know if i get msnbc though.
I’m still on the fence a bit. I’ve just skimmed the cloture documents on the Senate.gov website and then seeing Hugh’s post on a previous cloture motion, I don’t see anything about withdrawing the motion being part of the process. I haven’t seen a good explanation for that.
KO and Markos are saying that Reid is capitulating to Shrub… Period! Dodd and Feingold will be forced to filibuster any and all fixes to the bill, and, it’s dubious if that avenue is available…
LHP….Did you just hear KO…he said “Making stuff up”……
well then the thing to do is, as hugh did, find some cloture motion submissions and see if it’s been done before (the withdrawal)… i’ll go looking in the congressional record, but probably not till tomorrow.
Family time. I enjoyed the exchanges today. Thanks for letting a newcomer participate.
Awwww. Don’t you just love it when his writers read us?
And quote us (though a little attribution wouldn’t hurt, darlin’s).
But did he say “Riddikkulus!” and start laughing?
I’m still at the office, woking on 3 briefs at once, so no KO for me tonight
thanks for the KO info, CTuttle.
and LS, i think KO must be reading LHP!
nice meeting you jim, see you later in the threads….
i’m off for a bit too. .
Looks like egg on the face for me.
From the Congressional Record for November 15:
Link: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/…..10wyUcq0::
The order of things is a little different here than today, but Reid clearly does ask to withdraw the motion once it is stated. This also resolves the “mandatory quorum” question we had for today, too. So it does look like a standard invocation of cloture.