Goodnight people

Go Blue.

So it took then seven years to figure that out? Slow learners. How long do you suppose it’ll take them to discover that all this stems from Rove’s plan for a permanent R majority?

hey ecahn–can you drop me a note? I want to ask you something. jay at ackroyd.org

Charles Krauthammer thinks the Republican Party should get back to its core mission of looting the government.

Charles Krauthammer thinks the Republican Party should get back to its core mission of looting the government.

Shorter Krauthammer: these religious nuts are costing us our next war!

I’ll take a stab at it - Krauthammer: “GOP seppukus in tongues.”

BTW there is today’s Democratic debate in Iowa on CSPAN-3. It started at 1PM Central Time.

One wonders which candidate Krauthammer prefers. I guess he’ll still support the Republican primary winner regardless of the religiosity b/c he’s essentially a hypocrite.

And it is a real thriller. . .zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Once they lost George Allen, it was all over. They don’t have another sockpuppet available.

You know, I just realized that nobody ever points out that Romney’s only won one election, and is very inexperienced as presidential candidates, especially republican presidential candidates go.

Once they lost George Allen, it was all over. They don’t have another sockpuppet available.

That’s one of the reasons we worked so hard to get Webb elected, to keep nice sounding, reasonable looking George Allen out of the presidential race.

One wonders which candidate Krauthammer prefers.

I think based on his neocon leanings, and obvious disdain for the fundies, I’d bet he’s a Rudy! guy.

Krauthhammer is but a disgusting, common garden variety, piece of fascistic work. One might say this individual is despicable, however that would be a gross understatement. Mr. Krauthammer’s record over the years speakes for itself.

That is what Rove gets for ignoring John Connally’s advice that you
could not do business with the fundies because if they ask for 10 things
and you only deliver 9 they bolt… Reagan stiffed them most of the time
with the admonition they could vote for Teddy if they did not like it.
They have played hell with our politics with the craven Bushies, hope
they have overplayed their hand at last.

Krauthammer is a major mouth piece for the neocons. The man is disgusting.

I think Krauthammer is coming to the realization that a party that has no place for Mormons also has no place for Jews. It must be jarring for someone who’s always thought of himself as an “Us” to suddenly realize that he’s one of “Them”.

This faith based campaigning is actually nearing an end. As soon as the goopers figure out who the candidate is (probably by March) the campaign will shift dramatically- and you won’t recognize the gooper mantle bearer who will suddenly appear to be as mainstream as sliced white bread.

Here’s Newsweek’s (speciaficall, John Meacham’s) take on faith and politics:

Fights about faith and politics have been with us always. In 1800, there were advertisements saying voters could have “Adams and God, or Jefferson and no God.” Andrew Jackson resisted the formation of a “Christian Party in Politics.” Abraham Lincoln buried a proposed constitutional amendment designed to declare the nation’s dependence on, and allegiance to, Jesus. A century ago, in the 1908 campaign, William Howard Taft, a Unitarian, was attacked as an apostate by supporters of William Jennings Bryan, an evangelical Christian. “Think of the United States with a President who does not believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, but looks upon our immaculate Savior as a … low, cunning imposter!” The Pentecostal Herald said in July 1908.

Three weeks away from the Jan. 3 Iowa caucuses, it seems clear that we have not moved very far beyond where we were in the Taft-Bryan race.

…specifically, John…

Snakehandlers represent a thin majority of gooper primary voters- so we’re gonna get treated to lots of pandering until the winner is decided.

As the primary season ends- we’ll see some surprising goopers out there- attacking Clusterfuck and his his henchmen in public. Clusterfuck’s got about three months to live politically, after which time the political calculus for most goopers argues in favor of shitting on his head.

If he was still alive David Koresh would be the GOP frontrunner by now.

And to think Krauthhammer has made a bundle off his television and print propaganda. He gets paid big bucks for his nonsense.

Charles Krauthammer is merely a polished version of Rush and Bill ‘O.

More history lessons from Newsweek’s John Meacham:

Take this nation back for Christ: the phrase echoes the language of Jerry Falwell, who was against ministers’ mixing in politics when the subject was civil rights but changed his mind after the Roe decision in 1973. In a Moral Majority report, Falwell’s organization urged “an old-fashioned, God-honoring, Christ-exalting revival to turn America back to God.” Such talk was precisely what the Founders had hoped to avoid.

In truth, the separation of church and state—including a constitutional prohibition against a religious test for federal office—was essential to them, but they also understood that religion and politics were always going to be mixed up together. The critical thing was to manage this human reality, to minimize its ill effects and make the most of the possible good it could do. Led by Madison, the Founders were determined to make religion one of the many contending forces in the republican arena—forces that would check and balance one another.

The alternatives were—and are—bleak. To try to banish faith altogether would fail, for the religious would become martyrs, and religious belief is a perennial force in human affairs. (”All men,” said Homer, “need the gods.”) And to give faith a dominant role risked repeating the gloomy experience of the Old World and the worst parts of our Colonial history, a history checkered by theocracy and persecution from Jamestown to Massachusetts Bay.

(Same link as my 19.)

The Snakehandlers can pick Rudy- who is still ostensively a catholic despite three marriages—but they HATE Papists

Or they have Romney who thinks that the Garden of Eden was in Gardenia and that Satan and Jesus cavorted together as whippersnappers—or

The Huckster—who has no money and little chance of winning anything.

How would Jesus vote?

I think Krauthammer is coming to the realization that a party that has no place for Mormons also has no place for Jews. It must be jarring for someone who’s always thought of himself as an “Us” to suddenly realize that he’s one of “Them”.

Maybe he read this:

Huckabee, the former governor of Arkansas, was endorsed by Joseph Fuiten, pastor of Cedar Park Church in Bothell, and 29 other evangelical-faith community leaders from the area.

“The governor represents our values,” Fuiten said after a small fundraising luncheon at the Harbor Club in Bellevue. “I like that he believes, and I like what he believes. His Christianity is organic; he has been this way all his life.”

You may remember Pastor Fuiten. He was the fellow who, a few months back, announced that under Christian rule, non-Christians would be considered “illegal aliens.”

link

Are you the old Oklahoma Kiddo?

I can’t take it anymore. For me there are much more important issues to contend with than Mr. Charles. Like Obama’s high school drug experimentation.

Yep.

I only took drug tests if they were take home!

A polished troll?

I thought he was Lithuanian.

I wonder if breaking his neck made him the wacko that he is today or if he was always the way he is now?

The reason God is on our coins and in our Pledge is the USSR

I broke my back in 75 and I’s whacko.

Even so, you don’t seem to be filled with quite as much bile and vituperativeness as Krauthammer.

Still, I’m feeling a little puny in finding something on which I agree with Krauthammer. Does my tongue look like it’s coated?

Our rights come from a sphere outside the reach of the state. Government may or may not recognize our rights, but it can never repeal them.

(has Muggies been in a heroin stupor for 7 years?)

In the debate, Edwards, Dodd, and Richardson gave good anwers about what they would do once they hit the Oval Office, essentially get out of Iraq and restore the Constitution. Edwards put things in the larger context of taking back the country from a few powerful, rich interests.

Obama’s answer was good but on Iraq he said he would ask the Joint Chiefs to come up with a plan for withdrawal from Iraq and leave it to them.

Hillary was very slippery on this, saying quickly that she would “begin” to withdraw from Iraq. She did say she would push for most of the legislative program that the Republicans have been blocking: stem cell, SCHIP, for example.

I was somewhat slightly comforted by this result cited in this CNN-sponsored poll, as mentioned in this dKos diary on Edwards:

In general, would you prefer the presidential candidates to talk openly about their religious views or would you prefer them to keep their religious views as a private matter?

Talk openly about religious views 41%
Religious views a private matter 57%
No opinion 2%

When any candidate finally answers “none of your business”, I’ll be that bit happier.

The Neocons and the Fundies: two bullies who get along well until they turn on each other. Krauthammer is simply the Neoncon mouthpiece.

I wonder what he had to say back in 2000, when George Bush noted that Jesus was the political philosopher on whom he most relied.

The reason God is on our coins and in our Pledge is the USSR

So it was a Communist plot? *g* Actually I believe In God We Trust first was put on American coins during the Civil War. It was the Under God in the Pledge of Allegiance that was added by a joint resoluion in 1954.

Backed themselves into a corner, haven’t they?

And what will the fundies say? They are gonna lose one way or the other!

When HRC and Bill come up with this business of ‘I against the Iraq War from the start’ (courtesey of the Large Dog), and Obama wants to be prez to badly (from the best seller kindergarten essay by Obama) and that Obama should not be president because he’s an addict, I can’t help but ask myself how many Clintons does it take to unscrew a light bulb? Or in these cases, a campaign.

Dubya reminds me of Jesus. Especially on forgiveness and turning the other cheek. Of course, the New Testament brought us hell and its eternal damnation, maybe that’s the thing that reminds me of Dubya.

Were the lights just turned on in the rethug kitchen?

“Look at all those fundy cockroaches….ew!”

In God We Trust: The History
The U. S. Department of Treasury states “the motto, IN GOD WE TRUST, was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins.

From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861. It was written to Secretary Chase by Rev. M. R. Watkinson, Minister of the Gospel from Ridleyville, Pennsylvania. As a result, Secretary Chase instructed James Pollock, Director of the Mint at Philadelphia, to prepare a motto, in a letter dated November 20, 1861:

Dear Sir: No nation can be strong except in the strength of God, or safe except in His defense. The trust of our people in God should be declared on our national coins. You will cause a device to be prepared without unnecessary delay with a motto expressing in the fewest and tersest words possible this national recognition. It was found that the Act of Congress dated January 18, 1837, prescribed the mottoes and devices that should be placed upon the coins of the United States.”
Pollock suggested “Our Trust Is In God,” “Our God And Our Country,” “God And Our Country,” and “God Our Trust.” Chase picked “In God We Trust” to be used on some of the government’s coins. The first time “In God We Trust” appeared on our coins was in 1864 on the new two cent coin, and by 1909 it was included on most the other coins. During the height of the cold war, on July 11, 1955, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed Public Law 140 making it mandatory that all coinage and paper currency display the motto.

I had a chance to watch some of the GOP debate yesterday. I am currently listening to the Democratic debate. I must say that I am proud to be a Democrat. In spite of the inability of our Democratic legislature, our Presidential candidates are head and shoulders above the GOP. Oh and GO EDWARDS!

Hillary was very slippery on this, saying quickly that she would “begin” to withdraw from Iraq. She did say she would push for most of the legislative program that the Republicans have been blocking: stem cell, SCHIP, for example.

Slippery or cautious..The withdrawal from Vietnam was done in 60 days..Feb-March ‘73(?)..but there was a cease fire in effect and the US had sea ports and airfields..

I suspect withdrawal from Iraq is going to be more difficult.

Salmon. Jesus fish. Seems logical.

I took my mother to Israel for her seventieth birthday- she wanted to go with a baptist group- so we did. There was a great deal of discussion from the Baptists about how great it was to be in a religious nation while we were there. I suspect that the baptists were wrong about this- Israel was created by secularists for the most part as I recall- but it is interesting that there is something inside many religious people that cries out for a religious state. Might be worth trying to figure out why.

The U. S. Department of Treasury states “the motto, IN GOD WE TRUST, was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War.

I heard recently that regular bathing and attention to hygiene also came into fashion during (or just after) the Civil War. Something about all them dayed bodies…

Eisenhower helped marry fundies and the republican party. Eisenhower warned about the looming problem of an overly powerful Military Industrial Complex. He didn’t do anything about it, he simply made a speech about it and left the building.

I think the only thing said about politics was “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar and unto God, that which is His.” It seems to be one of the clearest statements in the Bible, but George and the fundamentalists don’t seem to have gotten that far yet.

That’s what we built the C-17 for.

They seem to get mired down in Leviticus

John Snow contributed to the formation of the germ theory when he traced the source of the 1854 cholera outbreak in the Soho neighbourhood of London. The statistical analysis of the affected cases showed that the outbreak was not consistent with the miasma theory which was prevalent at the time. Contrary to the contagion model, he identified drinking water as the vessel for transmission of the disease. He found that cases occurred in the homes which obtained their water from the Broad Street pump, which, not coincidentally, was at the center of the outbreak.

Louis Pasteur further demonstrated between 1860 and 1864 that fermentation and the growth of microorganisms in nutrient broths did not proceed by spontaneous generation. He exposed freshly boiled broth to air in vessels that contained a filter to stop all particles passing through to the growth medium: and even with no filter at all, with air being admitted via a long tortuous tube that would not pass dust particles. Nothing grew in the broths, therefore the living organisms that grew in such broths came from outside, as spores on dust, rather than being generated within the broth.

Robert Koch was the first scientist to devise a series of proofs used to verify the germ theory of disease.[1] Koch’s Postulates were first used in 1875 to demonstrate anthrax was caused by the bacterium Bacillus anthracis. These postulates are still used today to help determine if a newly discovered disease is caused by a microorganism.

It was about the time of the civil war when people were figuring out that germs caused disease and that there was some upside to staying clean.

Ike = Capt. Obvious

Krauthammer has been a bizarre snake in the fundie-Republican grass for far too long. He’s not going to slither out of it. In his own way, Mr. Krauthhammer is a war criminal for his constant and undying support for the Iraq genocide.

From Charles the K:

Alliances with dictatorships were justified in the war against fascism and the Cold War, and they are justified now in the successor existential struggle, the war against Arab/Islamic radicalism. This is not just theory. It has practical implications. For nothing is more practical than the question: After Afghanistan, after Iraq, what?

The answer is, first Lebanon, then Syria. Lebanon is next because it is so obviously ready for democracy, having practiced a form of it for 30 years after decolonization. Its sophistication and political culture make it ripe for transformation, as the massive pro-democracy demonstrations have shown.

Then comes Syria, both because of its vulnerability–the Lebanon withdrawal has gravely weakened Assad–and because of its strategic importance. A critical island of recalcitrance in a liberalizing region stretching from the Mediterranean to the Iranian border, Syria has tried to destabilize all of its neighbors: Turkey, Lebanon, Israel, Jordan and now, most obviously and bloodily, the new Iraq. Serious, prolonged, ruthless pressure on the Assad regime would yield enormous geopolitical advantage in democratizing, and thus pacifying, the entire Levant.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110006921

and Semmelweis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis

As someone who does not believe in any being outside of the natural universe, I find this whole experience very disheartening and a bit scary. Listening to any number of people, you would think that *I* am the enemy….

“….water from the Broad Street pump, which, not coincidentally, was at the center of the outbreak.” It was identified as the center through cartographic analysis. Snow made a map that spotted deaths on it.

It’s not clear that forced conversion to democracy at the point of the sword is a positive outcome for moslem nations- or for the nation under God that forces them.

I guess that’s so, but they seem to think the rules apply differently in different cases. For the most part, though, they are opposed to wide stances.

How difficult is it to say, “If elected President, I will leave Iraq.”? Or add a timeframe such as within one year (which would be a perfectly adequate interval). The reason that these things need to parsed is that Hillary has been called on this in the past. Her position remains unchanged. Precisely because she is seen as a triangulator, she needs to make strong, clear statements. When she equivocates and/or dances around the issues, it re-inforces the view that she can not be trusted on them.

Ain’t therapy great!

I wonder what he had to say back in 2000, when George Bush noted that Jesus was the political philosopher on whom he most relied.

My guess is that, like us, he knew Bush was lying.

That’s what we built the C-17 for.

Just to remove people, that would be more than 3,000 C-17 flights in potentially hostile conditions.

Interesting that the fundies worked so hard to put “God” on the MONEY-

She can’t say that because she won’t do that. In fact, I think all three of the leading dems will continue the occupation through their term. None of them have expressed anything close to a realistic plan for getting out.

He Chcuk, want some Fundie Blowback?(with an emphasis on the “blow”)

Time’s a wasting. Guess we should start soon, eh? *g*

Interesting that the fundies worked so hard to put “God” on the MONEY-

all the more easy to worship it - no?

The fundies aspire to the “rapture”. And the fundamentalists like neocons. And the neocons are more than willing to provide the fundies with the opportunity to achieve their goal of the rupture. I mean the rapture.

FINALLY some SANITY

Conservative Military Journal Slams Giuliani And Mukasey’s ‘Tacit Support For Waterboarding’

BOY, military, cia, ag’s, all pushing back against these depots

AND WHERE IS PELOSI?

anyway, more snippet

Let AFJ be crystal clear on a subject where these men are opaque: Waterboarding is a torture technique that has its history rooted in the Spanish Inquisition. In 1947, the U.S. prosecuted a Japanese military officer for carrying out a form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian during World War II.

Waterboarding inflicts on its victims the terror of imminent death. And as with all torture techniques, it is, therefore, an inherently flawed method for gaining reliable information. In short, it doesn’t work. That blunt truth means all U.S. leaders, present and future, should be clear on the issue.

YAYYYYY!!!!!!

some sanity

Oh thanks, rwcole. I think I’ve heard also that sterilizing instruments during surgery became more common during that time, as a result of the science you mentioned…

It’s not clear that forced conversion to democracy at the point of the sword is a positive outcome for moslem nations- or for the nation under God that forces them.

That’s never been on offer. The permanent bases and democracy are mutually exclusive goals. And they’re not giving up the bases.

Iraq has no national defense capability. The US is there for as long as the eye can see. And the leading candidates know that and will continue the occupation.

its getting to the point where we’re going to need names to distinguish our little fracture in our favorite whacked set of the population between the plutocrat republicans and the fundi republicans. Sounds like a good contest in the making.
.

Perhaps the neocons in their arrogance believed they could always control the fundies or ignored the growing fundie influence completely, which is also how the neocons seem to deal with everything else.
Monsters create monsters.

That’s one of the better explanations I have heard.

Good afternoon friends. Interesting that none of these repubs could see the writing on the wall before now.

blinded by the promise of power forever

now, what to do?

MARCH into the president’s office and DEMAND he take his neo fascists and GET YOUR FRIGGIN HANDS OFF OF OUR COUNTRY

AP - Democratic presidential rivals called for higher taxes on the wealthiest Americans and on some corporations Thursday and said any thought of balancing the federal budget would have to wait.

How difficult is it to say, “If elected President, I will leave Iraq.”?

The “top three” have the same positions.

I think Taylor Marsh summed it up the best.

With Edwards and Obama failing to prove real differences with Clinton on Iraq, it’s hard not to take this oppportunity and turn to AIPAC, because Middle East policy and getting back to being an “honest broker” would be the one thing that would really set the candidates apart, if someone had the courage to state that’s what’s needed. But suffice it to say that Edwards and Obama are just as strong a supporter of that lobbying group as Clinton, and none of them could be running for president if they hadn’t done what every other politician does and that is to send signals to AIPAC and their pro Israel PAC partners (AIPAC isn’t a political action committee and doesn’t give money directly to candidates or endorse them) that Israel comes first. The Isreali lobby, in all its varietal forms, is the true third rail of American politics, not just Democratic. It’s also what would really point to “real differences,” because on Iraq, Edwards, Clinton and Obama are pretty much on the same page.

link

When people create their own reality, it probably shouldn’t be surprising that they will miss the obvious more often than not.
I remember being nervous about the extremist religious bunch back in the 80’s & I wasn’t even paying much attention then.

Rove thought he could hold the coalition together by segmenting responses. And they only have to get about 48% of the vote, what with their vote suppression tactics.

Who knows? Without Iraq, it might have worked. Iraq cost them the independents splitting evenly, and lost George Felix Allen’s seat–because that’s why Webb ran.

Regarding the 222-199 who voted to outlaw waterboarding and other harsh techniques today….I’d like a nice juicy list of the names of the 199 torture-mongers..who can now officially be branded with “pro-torture”…the Propain party.

AP - Democratic presidential rivals called for higher taxes on the wealthiest Americans and on some corporations Thursday and said any thought of balancing the federal budget would have to wait.

they are going about this WAY wrong

they are NOT “raising taxes” on ANYONE, they will be RECLAIMING the assets that were TAKEN from the middle class and giving those assets back

they are NOT raising taxes they are calling the debt that is long overdue

badaBING

Exactly. It is going to take a little more time to penetrate their numbful skulls, but they are painfully going to find out that even those who support their golden boy Ghouliani detest the jews in their heart of heart. I have this on good authority from a Ghouliac.

Thinking of the dolchstoss. If the Huckster gets in, it could very well be turned against Kurtz and his kind, rather than the preferred liberal targets.

sorry messed that up. That was not for Steve-AR, but to ironranger.

For Steve, Taylor Marsh is part of what I believe is a broad consensus in Washington in favor of a continuing occupation, because leaving would have disastrous consequences. It’s not just AIPAC; it’s also the CFR.

Historians looking back on the Bush presidency may well wonder if Congress actually existed.

The first line of today’s Froomkin. I think some of us are wondering about this even now.

Some of my pals advise me there is not much light shining between the two parties. ;0)

The first line of today’s Froomkin. I think some of us are wondering about this even now.

I commented on just that over at emptywheels’

I think most of us are thinking the nsa has turned up some dirt on madam nancy, or worse then that, suppose there are threats!? threats of personal, regional…possibly national harm of some kind

something like;

you want elections?…no impeachment…you want congress to remain in session?…no impeachment

man, think of the possibilities

are they THAT depraved?

Some of my pals advise me there is not much light shining between the two parties. ;0)

There is a big difference between the two parties. It is just not one to be very proud about. We have crooks (Repulicans) and cowards (Democrats). As the last 7 years have shown, no matter how bad the cowards are the crooks are far worse.

but the cowards will become the crooks once they realize the power they have, as we know, power corrupts

we need some real progressives running this country once agan

AP - Democratic presidential rivals called for higher taxes on the wealthiest Americans and on some corporations Thursday and said any thought of balancing the federal budget would have to wait.

How long until they fold?

Is this new news?

Al Sharpton’s Office Raided by Federal Agents
from JONATHAN TURLEY by jonathanturley

Rev. Al Sharpton’s office was raided and staff subpoenaed in a sudden move by federal agents. There is clearly a grand jury investigation afoot and Sharpton’s 2004 Presidential run seems to be the focus of the probe. With at least 10 subpoenas to testify, it seems to be a fully developed investigation and makes possible indictments more likely. (more…)

I’ll ponder that. You might be right my friend. ;0)

I know exactly what you are saying. ;0)

I think if this were poker and the Democrats held a royal flush in spades they would still seek a way to fold. You don’t need to hold something over their heads when Democrats collapse on cue. In fact, as the August FISA votes showed they will even go out of their way to structure votes to make sure they fail and the Republicans succeed. Blackmail is totally unnecessary. Democrats do this stuff on their own.

woe is me then

On a comletely unrelated topic, but pertinent to FDL, what happened to Christie? Why is she not posting anymore? She’s still listed in the FDL info section, so I guess she hasn’t bailed completely. Sorry, but I don’t get down to the comments section very often, and I am sure this has been discussed somewhere else. I just haven’t seen mention of it.

she told us ahead of time she was taking a few days off

not to worry

Patience zeppo, patience…Christy is off on a well deserved family vacation.

The reason God is on our coins and in our Pledge is not that He is practically necessary to democratic liberty, but rather that He is the philosophical foundation of it. Our rights come from a sphere outside the reach of the state. Government may or may not recognize our rights, but it can never repeal them.

As Borat would say, not so much.

We have “under Go