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The New York Times reports this morning that "Lawyers within the clandestine branch of the Central Intelligence Agency gave written approval in advance to the destruction in 2005 of hundreds of hours of videotapes documenting interrogations of two lieutenants from Al Qaeda, according to a former senior intelligence official with direct knowledge of the episode."
Call me skeptical.
As Kevin Drum points out, "The White House had been in the loop for two years. The CIA had received letters from both the Justice Department and congressional leaders arguing that the tapes shouldn’t be destroyed. The CIA’s top lawyer had been involved for the entire time. And yet we’re supposed to believe that, in 2005, a mid-ranking agency lawyer suddenly decided the tapes could be destroyed and the head of the clandestine branch then gave the order to do so without anyone else being involved? Really? Does anyone actually believe this story?"
I’m going to guess, every employee of News Corp., James Taranto, and John Hinderaker.
Otherwise, no.
It brings me back to this story from Ron Suskind of Bush personally getting involved in torture, as Andrew Sullivan put it at the time:
Two things in particular stuck out for me. Suskind has CIA sources saying that, as part of the torture devised by Bush and Rumsfeld for Khalid Sheik Muhammed, Onepercent they threatened to harm his wife and children if he did not talk. KSM told the interrogators to go ahead and kill his family, if necessary. I find it telling that the president, in this instance, became the moral equivalent of a mafia boss, committing what is clearly a violation of the Geneva Conventions, even if his motives were good ones.
We also know of Rumsfeld getting highly involved in interrogations where tortures occurred, such as at Abu Ghraib.
If Bush and/or Rumsfeld were so intimately involved as to approve of specific tortures to be used against Al Qaeda figures, or others. There would seem to be a strong reason for them to dismiss evidence of their own handiwork.
That some mid-level lawyer ALONE authorized the destruction of "hundreds of hours of videotapes documenting interrogations of two lieutenants from Al Qaeda" is beyond ridiculous.
Which is why you wonder how much effort the media will put into it…beyond a couple days of headlines?
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Hi Attaturk. Where are you geographicly that you’re awake at this time? I got up for a pit stop, but then could’nt fall back asleep. Going to give it another try.
This whole torture business has me really upset about what used to be my country.
Larry Johnson has some interesting thoughts on the detruction of the torture tapes.
http://www.boomantribune.com/s…../23168/278
Looks like 2008 is likely to be another good year for the D.C. criminal defense bar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident
“This provocation was one of several actions in Operation Himmler, a Nazi Germany SS project to create the appearance of Polish aggression against Germany, which would be used to justify the subsequent invasion of Poland.”
“Much of what is known about the Gleiwitz incident comes from the sworn affidavit of Alfred Naujocks at the Nuremberg Trials. According to his testimony, the incident was organized by Naujocks under orders from Reinhard Heydrich and Heinrich Müller, the chief of the Gestapo.”[1]
“On the night of August 31, 1939 a small group of German operatives, dressed in Polish uniforms and led by Naujocks[2] seized the Gleiwitz station and broadcast a short anti-German message in Polish (sources vary on the content on the message). The Germans’ goal was to make the attack and the broadcast look like the work of anti-German Polish saboteurs.”[3][2]
“In order to make the attack scene more convincing, the Germans brought in Franciszek Honiok, a German Silesian known for sympathizing with the Poles, who had been arrested the previous day by the Gestapo. Honiok was dressed to look like a saboteur; then killed by lethal injection, given gunshot wounds, and left dead at the scene, so that he appeared to have been killed while attacking the station. His corpse was subsequently presented as proof of the attack to the police and press.”[4]
“In addition to Honiok, several other convicts from the Dachau concentration camp[2] were kept available for this purpose.[3] The Germans referred to them by the code phrase “Konserve” (”canned goods”). For this reason some sources incorrectly refer to the incident as “Operation Canned Goods”".[5]
Does anything sound similar. If 911 was not a “state sponosored” event, then one could reason that the “event” was used in then same fashion as the Nazi’s utilized the staged “Gleiwitz Incident” to justify “prememptive” military action and protect the “German Homeland” from Poles attacking Germany? Only war crimes trials brought forth this information……….
The notion that 911 was a state sponsored “inside job” permitted or enabled in some why is possible. However beyond that, the fact is 911 was used to justify the invasion and occupation of Iraq based on fabrications and associations that did not exist, just like the Gleiwitz Incident, the beginning of WWII. The destruction of “evidence” of any or all crimes is not a mistake. It is a conscience willful attempt to destroy the trails of accountability and hide evidence of war crimes…………….
Natural Selection Corporate T(r)eason and Executive Oil!!!!
Part I Blitzkrieg September 1, 1939: a new kind of warfare engulfs Poland
http://www.time.com/time/magaz…..-1,00.html
Two days of headlines and then “look over there, bright shiny object.”
In need of an update here wrt what I missed yesterday on site upgrades:
1. Preview works!!! (Yessssssss!)
2. Automatic notification of new posts
Anything else?
No ability to edit!
I wait in hope….. if preview’s here, can edit be far behind? *g*
I wonder if Porter Goss also did a little cleaning out in the Judicial Section of the CIA, as well as those in Operations…getting rid of all those pesky attorneys who were obstructing John Yoo’s vision of how to win the War on Terrorism.
BTW Wouldn’t the NIE primarily come out of the INTELLIGENCE Division of the CIA where the analysis of data goes on. The Water Boarding and Interrogations would be part of OPERATIONS. This is another possible flaw with thinking that those who exposed Pelosi’s briefing about water boarding have something to do with those who had knowledge of the NIE.
Links to previous and next posts at top and bottom of page.
aha!
I was wondering if I had overlooked them…
Oh yes, the Bush Regime’s typical tactic in the face of one of their many scandals is to say, “Look! A birdie! What a nice birdie! Everyone see the birdie? Pat the birdie, talk to the birdie!”. Spit.
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if George Bush had a live feed of Saddam’s hanging. Georgie just loves torture and death, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he’s actually waterboarded someone in the last five years at some point!
Connecting dots here folks…
1) Energy Bill: No 15% Renewables requirement. A 35 mpg Cafe Standard, 35 years to late.
2) Increased funding for War in Iraq and Afghanistan still gets the shaft.
3) Elected and appointed officials ignore the will of the governed
4) Energy cost, food cost all cost continue to rise while dollar’s value falls
Good Morning!
Here’s the lineup for CSPAN
ON WASHINGTON JOURNAL
Tuesday, December 11
7am – Newspaper Articles & Viewer Calls
7:30am – Rep. Joe Sestak (D-PA) 7th District, Armed Services Committee Member
8am – Mark Allenbaugh, Former Staff Attorney, U.S. Sentencing Commission
8:30am – Cheng Li, Committee of 100, U.S.-China Survey Co-Chair | Report
9:30am – Newspaper Articles & Viewer Calls
Given that only the underlings got prosecuted for incidents at Abu Graib, seems to me that any sensible person, down the totem pole, who somehow had gotten involved in torture (and knew about these tapes, paper trails, “evidence” implicating higher ups) might take precautions, gather evidence, so if and when someone wanted to implicate them, they could throw down the gauntlet themselves. Those who knew about this, and heard the ‘resident’ say over and over, “we don’t torture,” they must have kept things ready for a rainy day.
Hard to believe otherwise. And hard not to imagine that the people at the top wanted “proof” of their handiwork being carried out. bush is such a control freak… all the rest of them. Maybe incurious about things he’d have to cogitate on. But tapes like this might seem like “sports” to him. Makes me sick!!!
Good morning, pups. Bobo’s alone in the NYT today. He says the 2008 presidential election has fundamentally shifted, but it hasn’t been because of events in Iowa and New Hampshire. It’s because of events everywhere else. Yadda, yadda, yadda…
http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/
The coffee, tea and hot chocolate are ready, and I’ve got croissants this morning. I’m running SOOOO late… Have a good day!
mmMmmMmmm… hot chocolate and croissants. I so love to watch that little bit of butter melt on top… mmm
Thanks, t -
Preview was at the top of *my* list – everything else is just icing…..wellllllll, edit *would* be a welcome return; have simply stopped testing linky button. :-(
TheraP -
Your keyboard to Dog’s ear! It’s bloody well past time that *something* broke our way.
If you’re still about, got a numbers question for you:
Everytime I flip from blog to blog or linky to linky, there’s more news that another finance/real estate company is laying off large number of employees. How, therefore, do the employment figures keep going up? Are statistics being manipulated behind the scenes to make it appear data is more positive than it actually is?
Off to pick up a paper; will check back shortly.
Just saw KindaSleazy Rice on Today saying she “doesn’t recollect seeing any torture tapes”, which as we know is lawyer-speak for “you can’t prove what I can or cannot recall”, which is baloney since I’ve got to believe if you saw someone waterboarded to within an inch of their life you would remember that you either did or didn’t see it.
The lying just goes on and on.
Why millions of us aren’t headed towards D.C. with torches and pitchforks is just beyond me.
Question ??? If it is true that the videos have been destroyed and if it is true that the NIE conclusions were really given to the chimp much earlier than stated and if the chimp has lied regarding wire tapping way back in Buffalo NY and if the Dems hnew about the tortue techniques way back when, The why should anyone bother to vote in 08! They are all the same. DEM,GOPER or whatever.
Here is where Ithink that we should be. Unless and until some form of legal document can be constructed that every single congress person is willing to sign PRIOR to running for office, then there is no reason to vote.
And since I don’t see that happening, I suggest that nobody vote! I’m not.
and did you hear her thank her good friend Andrea Mitchell when she took the podium?
There was apparently some sort of dust-up on Joe Scar earlier. He said it was Mika and Schuster vs. him. And joe said he lost his cool. I missed it. Anyone see it?
from eCAHNomics Johnson piece:
What we know for certain is that the CIA was keeping the President and his National Security team fully briefed on the methods and results of interrogating Abu Zubaydah. In fact, it is highly likely that George Tenet showed part of the videotape of the interrogation to the President.
The semen splatter evidence is classified.
Considering the depth of involvement this administration, particularly the Cheney’s office, has had in the conduct of our intelligence agencies, I find it hard to believe POTUS knew nothing of the tapes’ destruction.
The summary table is here (the industry detail is the third section of the table)
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
and greater detail can be found here
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t14.htm
As you can see, employment in construction, manufacturing & if you look at detail under services, so is employment in financial services. Those declines are more than offset by gains in other services.
In my day, the econ stats were absolutely not manipulated. There are plenty of problems with them, but politicization was not one. However, given what the current administration has done in other areas, there’s some (small) chance they’ve infiltrated the data drones. It’s a small chance, though because the work is so unglamourous that I doubt and R would stoop to that level.
There has been no showing that there was a legal obligation to preserve the tapes. They are better off not serving as propaganda tools for the enemy. Although if the CIA gave Abu Zubadydah the unanesthesized grapefruit special, no one would cry.
just posted this over at marcy’s place too
I believe we now know why pelosi has “impeachment off the tabole”;
it’s because she is complacent and possibly an accessory to the crimes that will hold up against a trial of impeachment…war crimes, she could possibly be an accesory before and afther the fact
and I take issue with the restriction whitehouse places on himself;
I do not believe a person can be given “security clearance”, finds damaging facts that place our government at peril of coup, that they are not only allowed to violate their “clearance protocol” but are constitutionally bound to violate that protocol
there are two potential crimes, one would be “violating security protocol” and the other would be “complacent in crimes against America”
the latter is far the worse crime and needs to be addressed long before the former is even considered
ianal
Because it is not a blue dress.
do you have a blue dress?
G’MORNING FIREDOGS!
Isn’t that Q a little personal for so early in the morning? *g*
‘Fraid not…every time I click to scar and listen to their inane comments for a few minutes, it just turns my stomach. Hate the way he talks over Mika whenever she’s trying to read teh news; and she’s turned out to be a total disappointment wrt carrying her weight in putting down his stupidities. Spit!
Thanks, eCAHN!
Looks like that’ll keep me occupied for a while. After seven years of this twit, I always assume the worst wrt manipulating EVERYTHING….and I don’t misdoubt there are reich wingers buried everywhere, even down to the janitor’s closet.
Here is slam dunk video evidence of W and Fredo directly involved in torture:
http://www.elfyourself.com/?id=1253467185
I saw it solai. It was stunning. Scar was literally screaming at Mika at one point in defense of waterboarding. Then Schuster joined the conversation and Scar continued his crazy defense and Schuster roundly and soundly beat him up with reason and facts….
Too bad KO won’t name him WPIW tonight…
Isn’t there a video that has been out forever of Bush telling an Arab sheik that when we find terrorists, we’ll send them to you so that things can be done that Americans can’t do?
Hi angie! Been a while since I’ve seen ya around. Hope all is well.
OT – two hearings today, that i expect to be of special interest to firepups
Tuesday, 10 am – Senate Judiciary
Hearing to examine the legal rights of Guantanamo detainees, focusing on what they are, should they be changed, and is there an end in sight.
Tuesday, 2 pm – House Armed Services
Hearing on Security and Stability in Afghanistan: Status of U.S. Strategy and Operations and the Way Ahead. Witnesses: Robert M. Gates, Secretary of Defense, DoD; Admiral Michael G. Mullen, USN, Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff
(for details and full list, click on my name)
Didn’t see that part, but I’m not surprised. It’s sickening how in bed the media is with govt. officials. No pun intended re: Mrs. Greenspan.
angie! great to “see” you!
Selise, didn’t I hear that Hayden will be questioned today?
The Gates hearing at 2pm eastern will be on CSPAN3
Why am I not surprised? The guy is freakin’ nuts….also loathsome.
This should be on CSPAN 3 this afternoon, barring schedule changes.
angie, Did Joe yell at David or just Mika? I ask because he seems to use typical ‘guy’ methods to make her back down.
As I understand it, Hayden questioning will not be public.
i think that’s the senate intelligence committee today and the house intelligence committee tomorrow. both are closed hearings.
i don’t usually put closed hearings on the list. probably should, but i’m too lazy. *g*
52% Of Americans See Iraq Progress?
What evidence “exists” to support the proosition that progess is being made Joe??
i’m hoping c&l will post a clip of the dust up. you-all (who saw it) might want to give john a tip via email) with the approximate time, etc.
selise, you do fine. I misunderstood. I thought Hayden was going to appear publicly.
OT,
Just sent this Letter to the Globule
RE: Questions need answers
Libby has decided to forego appealing his felony charges of perjury, lying to the FBI, and obstruction of justice.
When Bush commuted his sentence in July, Press Secretary Tony Snow said that “once we get the final determination (appeal decision), we’ll deal with it.”
Mr. Bush, how DOES the commutation square with your 2003 statement that anybody who leaks in my White House and doesn’t follow the law, is not going to work with me?
I wait for Dana Peroxide’s obfuscation…
Off to prepare for work. See all later.
Hi all. I have had computer access and function issues… nice to “see” you too!
Joe screamed at Mika (who was making good points wrt torture) and then went off on David as well but David gave it back to him in spades.
These people really need to stop watching so much “24″.
Matt Lauer was posing the same lame “What if an attack was imminent and you held someone with information…blah,blah,blah, then torture is good” crap this morning.
Enough already. Intelligence professionals consistently say torture doesn’t work.
the spat continues………
(Bill Cosby flashback)
“Riiiiiiiggght. [pause] Who is this, really?”
(/Bill Cosby flashback)
Why should he appear publically?
This Government (dems & repugs) don’t want us to know the answers.
We live in a fucking Police State, and the Flamethrower’s words
ring true more each day.
It’s complicit not complacent
I never thought I’d see the day when Joe Scarborough would be righteously, and I mean righteously, beating on fellow Florida Republican John Mica. Holy crap.
Right on lefty blogoshere, keep it up, there is no place for them to hide soon. They are being drowned in the truth.
But watch out for a trapped animal striking back. You don’t expect these people to cry “uncle” do you?
Yeah, I saw it. It got pretty heated and David Schuster wasn’t going to let it drop. They still maintained civility, but barely. Scarboro seemed a little embarrassed afterwards. Andrea Mitchell actually sort of politely endorsed the Mika/Schuster postion.
please, someone tell me that you are tivo’ing this?
ot – Talking Jesus Action Figure Sells Out At Walmart
from the ap via laura rozen:
Fixed that.
If Bunnypants were involved at that level, then he’s a war criminal as sure as the sun rises in the East. Now that one of the leaders of a CIA Torture Team has gone public, I guess it’s going to be harder to deny that torture occurs, except for every mainline wingnut blog which will get their daily IV of talking points (probably already have) from the WH and RNC.
Sickening.
I missed the dust-up earlier on JoeScar, but Erin Burnett(sp?) at the close of her financial report, just called Joe out on it too.
JoeScar then turned to “my Man Willie Geist – he’s still with me, right Wille?”
Willie blew him off, giving him the hands-off sign.
Hope C&L gets this one up.
is this really OT?
Draft plans for the George W. Bush Library
thanks iching
They played a tape of Lawrence O’Donnell going off on Mitt and LDS Church on McLaughlin. It did kind of make their skirmish look tame. I like O’Donnell but IMHO he did go over the edge on Mormonism, Mitt, and the horse he rode in on.
Good Morning
I find reading this strange as I am reading the “Shock Doctrine” right now too.
Someone in the White House is kinky. Maybe they watched the tapes with Gannon. We never solved that question, did we?
holy cow. i don’t know how this happened, but somehow that youtube (in 2 parts) i made of sheldon whitehouse’s senate floor speech on friday has made it’s way to digg – it’s now #6 on the list of most popular “world and business” videos of the last 24 hours with 564 diggs.
all i did was convert the real player webstream (that whitehouse’s staff posted on their website). i think there’s a real hunger in the country for this kind of straight talk about bushco’s lawlessness.
‘morning, all… coffee is ready.
Of course the Hayden testimony is behind closed doors. Congress has to protect one of their own. Move along nothing to see here.
Hot Dog! Or maybe I should say: Hot Digg!
WooHoo selise!
you rock.
Wow, that’s really good news. Good work.
By the way… raise your hand if you think anything was really destroyed permanently.
I don’t.
Copies were made, an altar set up, the “sacrifice” performed, and now it’s “Ooops, we made a mistake, but a mistake for the sake of National Security!”
“Now move along, nothing to see here.”
;0– good for you and thank you!
(I e-mailed John wrt Joe per your suggestion)
Congrats, Selise!
Mornin’, Old Coastie!
Congrats selise, and thanks for all of your efforts.
I like what Larry Johnson said: If they’d actually managed to stop any terrorist acts using torture, the tapes not only would NOT have been destroyed, they’d have been released publicly.
If there is a business-person at MSNBC (I’m not even gonna ask for morality), I hope they eventually take some note of the Olbermann Factor. That is, that their ratings go up when they move away from neo-con war-mongering and chest thumping.
Tucker evidently has one foot in the proverbial grave – time to take a look at the ever-more lunatic Joe Scarborough , fellas.
but i barely did anything. imo, it just goes to show that if whitehouse keeps this up – he’s going to make a lot of fans, and not just in RI.
exactly.
Firepups might want to give Whitehouse’s office a call and let them know about it.
“Someone put the Senator’s great speech up on YouTube, and it’s jumped into the online political discussion in a big way . . . Tell the Senator thanks for me!”
amazing how that works, eh? but it’s the small actions that no one else thought of that move us far…
good job, selise!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..id=topnews
Do we have heroes?
I think we should make a list of the heros.
The Congresscritters who still believe in us.
Great work Selise
Hey, the Supremes gave judges a little discretion back!
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12…..38;emc=rss
7-2 decision – anybody wanna guess as to who the dissenters were before they peek?
At this keyboard you’re known as “Saint selise of the Hearings”
“Mornin Joe” has a crush on Erin who is very cute. But Joe is not Chinese and that is who Erin is hot for. The Chinese are our best friends.
“I think people should be careful what they wish for on China. You know, if China were to revalue its currency or China is to start making say, toys that don’t have lead in them or food that isn’t poisonous, their costs of production are going to go up and that means prices at Wal-Mart here in the United States are going to go up too. So, I would say China is our greatest friend right now, they’re keeping prices low and they’re keeping the prices for mortgages low, too.”
here are the numbers
Sheldon Whitehouse — (202) 224-2921 FAX (202) 228-636
I don’t know how much is a crush, and how much is Joe trying to stay in control of his show by belittling women. In a different way, he does the same with Mika B.
behind closed doors the keep the light off the ????
Which of the pups used to say something to the effect of, “My hatred of (was it liarman?) knows no bounds”? Sort of the way I feel about scar…and you’re right, he’s got BIG “put-down women” issues. :-(
Nothing that complex, P. Impeachment’s off the table because the Democrats saw what pushing to impeach Clinton did to the Republicans in 1998 (the Pugs thought they’d pick up veto-proof majorities in both houses, and instead they didn’t gain any ground in the Senate — we lost Carol Moseley-Braun, but they lost Al D’Amato, the main GOP Senator pimping impeachment — and they lost five House seat), and because most Americans think it’s a waste of time.
As for what the “unnamed official” (cough*PorterGoss*cough) said, bear in mind that when the Republicans start screaming “But Dems Did It Toooo!” they’re usually a) lying or b) exaggerating — and their screaming this should be taken as a tacit admission of guilt. Pelosi’s already come out and said that while she did attend the 2002 briefing, Jane Harman — who succeeded her on the intel committee — saw a later, more detailed one, and had condemned the techniques, a condemnation in which Pelosi concurred.
What is the toll-free number to Congress? Do not want to pay Verizon a fee so I can express my opinion. I ‘ll give that money to Exxon mobile later today!!
OT
Canada’s national CBC radio show The Current had an interview segment this morning with U.S. Colonel Morris Davis, former chief prosecutor in Guantanamo Bay. Davis was very specific about interference in the case of Australian David Hicks, and other cases.
The interview isn’t yet available as a podcast, but should be by tomorrow morning.
punaise on Joe Liarman…
David Obey, Real American (h/t Snowbird):
No doubt that Bush personally getting involved in torture made him feel as manly as playing dress up in a flight suit does.
Selise put Whitehouse’s speech up on YouTube.
I’m betting that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Kristol repeatedly watched interrogation videos much the same way as Hitler watched the films of the executions of the July 44 conspirators. Over and over and over again. The seats in the White House screening room probably need a better cleaning than Monica’s blue dress. These are really creepy people.
Nice! Selise………
I hope Obey sticks to his plan.
Thanks for making this more visible.
I used to say that they wouldn’t stoop so low, but that is over for me. I do believe they are manipulating everything, from job numbers to the rise of the Dow. They have made many, many billionaires from their treachery, all of whom are ready and willing to buy when the market is down. And buy big they are. Anything to prop up the ‘numbers’ until a dem wins in 2008. Then they will sell big and make a profit.
That is the scheme. But what does a lowly retired lady, quilting at home know. But my senses are kicking in that the scroundels are not done with America quite yet.
as I said …and what about Gannon? Creepy just goes with all this torture
Sorry, but I don’t believe anything Pelosi has to say. Nothing.
Shock Doctrine?
From the AP, via the Guardia… on NBC this am – torture was directed from White House:
We knew. Now he confirms.
I’ve thought the same thing, again and again. They’re manipulating the market… in tandem with the news coming out.
I was watching Watergate 30 Year Ago PBS. While rewatching Sam Erving tear the President’s men a new asshole, I thought of SHELDON WHITEHOUSE!!!!
Was this about personal sadism?
Really creepy…Gannon was a B and D man.
I have some bad news for Huckleberry and is fundy supporters. HuffPo has more on the Dumond Case.
Interference by whom?
“These are really creepy people.”
My own feeling is that they are monsters: just as Hannibal Lecter is a monster.
Youtube links to Sheldon on FIRE!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFWIHbf50EI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPT9JxTBxok
Bush sounds just like the King of England and his corporate cohorts in colonial crime………………….
Where is Cromwell!!!!!
This is a silent coup……….
Unfortunately, Hannibal Lecter is a fictional monster.
Yep, but Bush, Cheney, Kristol and the rest of ‘em are all too real.
Let these bastards see the horror and “feel” the pain they have inflicted on others who had nothing to do with 911…………….
May they all choke on their Old Glory lapel pins.
[Mod Note: Please do not threaten or wish harm on others, even if in jest. Thank you.]
Dick Cheney micro-manages the White House and we are expected to believe that he didn’t have a hand in this? I’m waiting for the Democrats to ferret this crime out and hold him accountable. Oh, wait, maybe not.
http://13martyrs.blogspot.com/
In John Kiriakou’s interview with Brian Ross of ABC news, John claims that that waterboarding gave evidence that stopped a lot of stuff.
Apologies.
They’re still wearing the damned things, though.
Do y’all know that Jane is upstairs talking about Unions firing a union-buster?
Hannibal Lecter’s also got more morals than these people.
Yes HR 1959 Just like Nazis and JOe M. The King of England and his corporate cohorts in colonial crime called the American Colonist, terrorists and insurgents as America’s founders created a new society predicated on new laws and values, undermined by enblers today like Harmon.
1) Our founders sponsored a violent Revolution for the purpose of facilitating the advancement of men, political, religious, and social change and gave us the United States Constitution identifying the rights of men!
2) Our founders used force of violence to promote a group, these United States, protecting individual’s rights, both political and religious, defining social beliefs and values stated in the constitution.
3) Our founders, where home grown terrorist sick of “sodomization” by a King and his corporate cohorts in colonial crime protecting their self- interests at the expense of the governed and further protected by ocean, army, and unjust law. We have rights duties, obligations as American’s secured by law. Some of our current political leaders act more like Kings and his corporate cohorts in colonial crime than representatives of the people these United States.
What kind of PC “crap” is this???? You are already threatened by HR 1959 and it is not even law!!! Got you!!!
“[Mod Note: Please do not threaten or wish harm on others, even if in jest. Thank you.]”
The poster threatened no one and did not wish harm on anyone. He merely wished they would “choke” on the old glory lapel pins. Choking is an involuntary response, designed to continue life, not snuff it out. Beside with the lapel pin in the throat they cannot spew crap!!!
With impeachment remaining “off the table”, I was expressing the frustration held by many.
That being said, our gracious hosts provide us with a forum to air our comments and complaints.
They didn’t kill the entry. So I will try to maintain good manners.
biffdiggerence
“That being said, our gracious hosts provide us with a forum to air our comments and complaints.” Yes you are correct…. however without the posters who comment and make valid points,(not complaining) on this site FDL would have no one to advertize to, hence belly up!!!! I appreciate this site, and the opportutnity to post and express my thoughts and opinions. However the mod’s comment in your post was not required.
My fear is well founded in that “legislation” HR 1959 purposed to protect is nothing more than a “Trojan Horse,” giving law makers the unconstitutional authority to limit “speEch” web sites and eliminate anybody who disagrees with them by a simple “assertion” they espouse violence????? Are you a communist, asked Joe McCarthy? Joe McCarthy had no manners at all. Look at the pain he caused………..
Hannibal was a psychopath whereas Bush and the rest of that crew would be considered sociopathic. A sociopath knows that their actions are wrong but will get them what they want so it’s ok. A psychopath has no concept of right or wrong as defined by society, making them dangerous individuals indeed. Dr Chilton made a rock-solid statement about psychopaths, “We rarely get them alive” (not a direct quote).