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	<title>Comments on: Horserace Politics Roundup</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/</link>
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		<title>By: tanbark</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1144550</link>
		<dc:creator>tanbark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:47:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1144550</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ekunin; you got it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;   I don’t know about the issue of Obama being black.  I would hope that it’s a non-issue, but that’s probably unrealistic.   Like you, I could and would support him, enthusiastically, if he’s nominated, or if Edwards can’t gain enough support to continue, and it becomes a two-candidate race.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    Of the polls, I’m about at the point that I take most of them with a five pound bag of salt.   I think most of the better known ones may be for sale; as in:   “Hire us and we’ll get you the result you want.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    A few months ago, Hillary’s staff was trying to get ahead the “electability” issue, and they sponsored what they called an “internal” poll which showed that she had a LOT of support among republican women.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    It was, of course patented bullshit.   But it’s a good example of what we’re seeing, already.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    If you want to see something closer to the true reaction of GOP women to Clinton, check out that clip of a McCain speech, in which Ms. GOP-pearly-Blue-rinse, with venom dripping from her fangs, asked McCain:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;  “How do we beat the bitch?” &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hillary gets HAMMERED everytime there’s a poll from progressives…in THIS election, when the warpimps are incredibly vulnerable to a landslide, do we want a candidate who’s sucking up to the right, and talking about doing rehab on Colin Powell?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; She’s crapped on us right and left; it’s astounding that there are still a fair number of progressives who think that the nomination is some kind of birthright for her. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But, I think that is changing.   With any luck, Iowa will take some of the air out of the tires of the Clintonmobile, and we can settle down for a good, long, primary fight, with Iraq becoming the issue for us, that it’s going to be in the general.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ekunin; you got it.</p>
<p>   I don’t know about the issue of Obama being black.  I would hope that it’s a non-issue, but that’s probably unrealistic.   Like you, I could and would support him, enthusiastically, if he’s nominated, or if Edwards can’t gain enough support to continue, and it becomes a two-candidate race.   </p>
<p>    Of the polls, I’m about at the point that I take most of them with a five pound bag of salt.   I think most of the better known ones may be for sale; as in:   “Hire us and we’ll get you the result you want.”</p>
<p>    A few months ago, Hillary’s staff was trying to get ahead the “electability” issue, and they sponsored what they called an “internal” poll which showed that she had a LOT of support among republican women.  </p>
<p>    It was, of course patented bullshit.   But it’s a good example of what we’re seeing, already.</p>
<p>    If you want to see something closer to the true reaction of GOP women to Clinton, check out that clip of a McCain speech, in which Ms. GOP-pearly-Blue-rinse, with venom dripping from her fangs, asked McCain:</p>
<p>  “How do we beat the bitch?” </p>
<p>Hillary gets HAMMERED everytime there’s a poll from progressives…in THIS election, when the warpimps are incredibly vulnerable to a landslide, do we want a candidate who’s sucking up to the right, and talking about doing rehab on Colin Powell?</p>
<p> She’s crapped on us right and left; it’s astounding that there are still a fair number of progressives who think that the nomination is some kind of birthright for her. </p>
<p>But, I think that is changing.   With any luck, Iowa will take some of the air out of the tires of the Clintonmobile, and we can settle down for a good, long, primary fight, with Iraq becoming the issue for us, that it’s going to be in the general.</p>
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		<title>By: ekunin</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1144224</link>
		<dc:creator>ekunin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1144224</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I wonder what people think of the race issue. It’s the elephant in the living room. Many years ago, perhaps fifty, a lawyer friend tried a personal injury case. His plaintiff client was black. During trial the case was settled. The judge called the jury in to tell them. On learning of the settlement, one juror said, “You mean they gave that nig*er money?” He had been asked before trial if race made a difference and he had answered “No”. The judge removed his name from the jury rolls and that was that. For me it’s between Edwards and Obama. Hillary has pandered so long, I doubt she knows what she really believes, but I’m not sure Obama will get a fair shake, just as I’m not sure a bunch of progressives are the ones to ask.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what people think of the race issue. It’s the elephant in the living room. Many years ago, perhaps fifty, a lawyer friend tried a personal injury case. His plaintiff client was black. During trial the case was settled. The judge called the jury in to tell them. On learning of the settlement, one juror said, “You mean they gave that nig*er money?” He had been asked before trial if race made a difference and he had answered “No”. The judge removed his name from the jury rolls and that was that. For me it’s between Edwards and Obama. Hillary has pandered so long, I doubt she knows what she really believes, but I’m not sure Obama will get a fair shake, just as I’m not sure a bunch of progressives are the ones to ask.</p>
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		<title>By: tanbark</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1143640</link>
		<dc:creator>tanbark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 04:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1143640</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ekunin; Jane put it to a vote a couple of months ago, on October 12.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Here were the results:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;2309 votes cast.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Edwards–998 votes, or 43%&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama–289 votes, or 13%&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Kucinich–247 votes, or 11%&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Clinton–236 votes, or 10%&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Richardson and Dodd polled less, and I didn’t write down their numbers.  Sorry, but I don’t know if we have archives here or not.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What was amazing to me (and heartening, since I’m an Edwards support, but I reserve the right to rag-ass on him and change, if he starts twitching and doing the triangulation boogie) is that Edwards did so well, and Hillary came a poor 4th.  :o)   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I imagine there have been some changes since them.  I’d like to see another poll.   Jane?  :o)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ekunin; Jane put it to a vote a couple of months ago, on October 12.</p>
<p>Here were the results:</p>
<p>2309 votes cast.</p>
<p>Edwards–998 votes, or 43%</p>
<p>Obama–289 votes, or 13%</p>
<p>Kucinich–247 votes, or 11%</p>
<p>Clinton–236 votes, or 10%</p>
<p>Richardson and Dodd polled less, and I didn’t write down their numbers.  Sorry, but I don’t know if we have archives here or not.</p>
<p>What was amazing to me (and heartening, since I’m an Edwards support, but I reserve the right to rag-ass on him and change, if he starts twitching and doing the triangulation boogie) is that Edwards did so well, and Hillary came a poor 4th.  :o)   </p>
<p>I imagine there have been some changes since them.  I’d like to see another poll.   Jane?  :o)</p>
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		<title>By: ACitizen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1143548</link>
		<dc:creator>ACitizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 03:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1143548</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What do ya expect a photo of a couple of phonies to look like?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do ya expect a photo of a couple of phonies to look like?</p>
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		<title>By: TeddySanFran</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1143417</link>
		<dc:creator>TeddySanFran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 02:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1143417</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Just to clarify: there was no initial vote Obama cast against the war.  He opposed the war but was not in the Senate when they cast the war vote.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to clarify: there was no initial vote Obama cast against the war.  He opposed the war but was not in the Senate when they cast the war vote.</p>
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		<title>By: solai</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1143416</link>
		<dc:creator>solai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 02:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1143416</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Back to the haircut….the hubby also thought it was outrageous that Edwards’ hairdresser came to him until I reminded him of the time that he needed a haircut and his regular hairdresser was out on maternity leave. Hubby went to the mall for a haircut…..and it wasn’t pretty. When he walked in the door the entire family burst out laughing. At that point, I think he would have forked over a couple hundred to lure his regular away from the baby.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back to the haircut….the hubby also thought it was outrageous that Edwards’ hairdresser came to him until I reminded him of the time that he needed a haircut and his regular hairdresser was out on maternity leave. Hubby went to the mall for a haircut…..and it wasn’t pretty. When he walked in the door the entire family burst out laughing. At that point, I think he would have forked over a couple hundred to lure his regular away from the baby.</p>
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		<title>By: solai</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1143410</link>
		<dc:creator>solai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 02:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1143410</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I loved the haircut story and thought it was played wrong. Think of it like the guy who leaves a big tip for the waitress. Edwards values the service of his hairdresser and the hairdresser came to him. I think it was generous, but fair, compensation. Contrast that with billionaire Mitt who hires the cheapest lansscapers he can find. It’s the difference in the way labor is viewed. Edwards is generous. Mitt is a minimum-wage kind of guy.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loved the haircut story and thought it was played wrong. Think of it like the guy who leaves a big tip for the waitress. Edwards values the service of his hairdresser and the hairdresser came to him. I think it was generous, but fair, compensation. Contrast that with billionaire Mitt who hires the cheapest lansscapers he can find. It’s the difference in the way labor is viewed. Edwards is generous. Mitt is a minimum-wage kind of guy.</p>
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		<title>By: Margot</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1143401</link>
		<dc:creator>Margot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 02:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1143401</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/congress/july-dec00/estate_tax_8-31.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb....._8-31.html&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.60plus.org/deathtax.asp?docID=411&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.60plus.org/deathtax.asp?docID=411&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/congress/july-dec00/estate_tax_8-31.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb&#8230;.._8-31.html</a> </p>
<p><a href="http://www.60plus.org/deathtax.asp?docID=411" rel="nofollow">http://www.60plus.org/deathtax.asp?docID=411</a></p>
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		<title>By: ekunin</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1143392</link>
		<dc:creator>ekunin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1143392</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It is a puzzlement. We say which candidate we are for, but don’t go into reasons. I didn’t understand why Hillary went for Kyle-Lieberman until I saw it as a move for the Jewish vote. Obama, like so many who rise, reached a point where he trys to broaden his appeal and fudges where he had previously been clear. He didn’t vote for Kyle-Lieberman which is better than voting for it, but in his former karma he would have voted against it. Nevertheless, I like Obama’s initial vote against the war; his willingness to talk to enemies rather than bomb them; and his attempt to find different paths-or so he says.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Still I was for Edwards because I’m not sure the country is ready for a black president. A Jewish friend says he will not vote for Obama under any circumstances because he believes blacks are anti-semetic. Perhaps, though, the country is so fed up with Republicans, they will buy the Democrat even with reservations about his skin color. I cannot believe, under our present circumstances, anyone would vote Republican to avoid voting for a black although, as I said, I know one such person. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;According to Dennis Miller, a mean spirited though sometimes funny Republican, he was turned off to Edwards by his debate with Cheney where he congratulated Cheney on his handling of his daughter’s sexuality. Miller thought it beyond arrogant. Then there is the $400.00 haircut and the mansion across from the trailer park which makes Bill O’Reilly crazy because he claims Edwards snubs the trailer parkers. Too elite for a populist, according to B.O.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The choices are not inspiring, but I think we should choose. I wonder, if put to a vote, how Firepups come down.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a puzzlement. We say which candidate we are for, but don’t go into reasons. I didn’t understand why Hillary went for Kyle-Lieberman until I saw it as a move for the Jewish vote. Obama, like so many who rise, reached a point where he trys to broaden his appeal and fudges where he had previously been clear. He didn’t vote for Kyle-Lieberman which is better than voting for it, but in his former karma he would have voted against it. Nevertheless, I like Obama’s initial vote against the war; his willingness to talk to enemies rather than bomb them; and his attempt to find different paths-or so he says.</p>
<p>Still I was for Edwards because I’m not sure the country is ready for a black president. A Jewish friend says he will not vote for Obama under any circumstances because he believes blacks are anti-semetic. Perhaps, though, the country is so fed up with Republicans, they will buy the Democrat even with reservations about his skin color. I cannot believe, under our present circumstances, anyone would vote Republican to avoid voting for a black although, as I said, I know one such person. </p>
<p>According to Dennis Miller, a mean spirited though sometimes funny Republican, he was turned off to Edwards by his debate with Cheney where he congratulated Cheney on his handling of his daughter’s sexuality. Miller thought it beyond arrogant. Then there is the $400.00 haircut and the mansion across from the trailer park which makes Bill O’Reilly crazy because he claims Edwards snubs the trailer parkers. Too elite for a populist, according to B.O.</p>
<p>The choices are not inspiring, but I think we should choose. I wonder, if put to a vote, how Firepups come down.</p>
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		<title>By: newspaperbrat</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1143390</link>
		<dc:creator>newspaperbrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/11/horserace-politics-roundup/#comment-1143390</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Got the blues &amp; horrid headache? FDL is the cure. Thanks Jane, Teddy, Norske, et al, etc. etc.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Got the blues &amp; horrid headache? FDL is the cure. Thanks Jane, Teddy, Norske, et al, etc. etc.</p>
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