Zed?

Morning, Blue Texan…

Morning Blue Texan. Regarding the Freedom’s Watch ad - heard NBC caved - oh the power of BillO.

Regarding the Freedom’s Watch ad - heard NBC caved - oh the power of BillO.

Yeah. And Fox refuses to air the ad about Bush and the constitution.

Once again, they know how to play the game and we don’t.

When a Wingnut philosophy is not supported in the polls, do not expect to hear that poll quoted. When embarrassed by facts, just ignore the facts - this is somewhere in the Wingnut creed.

When did they start letting all those DFH’s in the military anyway?

So now we learn that 60% of the troops are cowards?

EPU-ed from last thread, but it fits here too, methinks. Imus guest Tuesday will be Col. Jack Jacobs. Imus getting revved up on the treatment of vets, brain injuries, etc. Whatever your feelings about the messenger, Imus brings attention to important issues. Beschloss also scheduled.

livestream on wabc.com, RFD-TV @ DirectTV 379, DISH network @ ?

Buncha phony soldiers.

NBC caved? Shit. All they asked of so-called Freedom Watch was that they take the web address out of the ad. They refused to take it off, then ran to the Wurlitzer to spread the word. A cynic would think that they knew what the rules regarding advertisement were, and set up NBC like so many bowling pins. Meanwhile, Faux will not air an ad they claim is “one man’s opinion”. It’s that damn liberal media at work again!

Finally the right questions are being asked: Why don’t troops support troops? Not only that, why don’t their families support them either?

I love how the repugs have now boxed themselves into this corner!

‘Mornin Blue Texan,

Of course these aren’t real troop families. They are phony, just like the troops who oppose the war. And besides, they’re getting paid so they have no right to voice their opinion, that would be unAmerican or something.

When you have lost a majority of military families, there’s pretty much nobody left. Time to get these criminals out of office.

Yeah, kinda like how Miss McConnell supports the troops

“Unfortunately, most of our friends on the other isle are having a hard time admitting things are getting better; some days I almost think the critics of this war don’t want us to win. Nobody is happy about losing lives but remember these are not draftees, these are full-time professional soldiers.”

Nobody is happy about losing lives but remember these are not draftees, these are full-time professional soldiers.

Hey, they’re professionals. FULL-TIME professionals. They’re getting what they signed up for…what’s the big deal?

Happy talk
shorter Mitch, professionals deserve to die

The surge has worked. We have our victory. Now let’s go home.

I agree. On the whole, it is good to have Imus back.

Who would have thought?
The elimination of the draft has eroded our democracy

When you lose the mothers you’ve lost the game. Of course, they lost the dads, the brothers and sisters and the soldiers, themselves. But the repukes will keep on puking. They own the liberal media.

“By the second winter of the war, the boots had worn out. . . but the line still held. Their great coats fell to pieces on their backs. Their rations were irregular. Half of them went into action without arms, led by men they didn’t trust.”

– Doctor Zhivago

Critical mass has been reached.

The Surge has worked, is working, and will continue working, world without
end. Amen.

Honestly, wouldn’t you want the hell out if you couldn’t find the moral empowerment to pull the trigger?

Why are We shooting Iraqis in their Country?

Dan Abrams is announcing over at Huff Post that he will be airing a series on “Bush League Justice” this week. Looks like we have something to look forward to after KO. Let’s give him some encouragement.

Morning eCAHN:

Are you still running your consulting firm, eCAHNomics?

Remember charlie
Remember baker
They left their childhood
On every acre
And who was wrong?
And who was right?
It didnt matter in the thick of the fight

A young marine told me that The Geneva Conventions say that a soldier must not shoot a child bearing a firearm who has fired on him. The marine asked me if I thought that (The Geneva Convention rule) was a just rule.

I said, yes. I said also that I felt that these rules are currently largely ignored. Soldiers are going into peoples’ homes and blasting anything that moves. Including women ans children. Absolutely sickening.

Imus: Let’s see how plays out. He vowed the first day never to say racist stuff again. And that he will never disappoint the Rutgers girls who had the generosity to forgive him.

AP: I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby’s attorney says the former White House aide is dropping his appeal in the CIA leak case

Well, sorta OT, at least we know now why Pelosi took impeachment off the table.

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/....._1209.html

Knuckledraggers are tuned in to see if Imus will disappoint them. If Imus doesn’t skate dangerously close to thin ice, the bigots that listen to him will tune out. He will have a very hard time. He’s not that smart. Imus lets his mouth get ahead of his lizard brain.

How about support the troops, give them a mission.

A young marine told me that The Geneva Conventions say that a soldier must not shoot a child bearing a firearm who has fired on him. The marine asked me if I thought that (The Geneva Convention rule) was a just rule.

it’s been a while since i read the geneva conventions, but i don’t recall anything like that rule. are you sure about that?

AP: I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby’s attorney says the former White House aide is dropping his appeal in the CIA leak case.

Hearts and Thoughts, They Fade Away.

It’s a war crime to use children as combatants.

This marine is a right-winger from hell. He probably heard it on Limbaugh and regurgitated it on me.

Your point being? Torture is a war crime too, no?

If he thought it bad the first time, just wait until he sees what the Wurlitzer will unleash.

O/T: Has this been noted yet? Paul Levy won the Massachusetts Grinch award. Jane hates his guts. She’ll be happy and I’m sure will have a post on it. I imagine, anyway.

My point is you said to shoot an armed child is against the Geneva Convention and I think you are wrong. It is against the Geneva Convention to USE a child as a combatant. And what is your point?

geez BFL - I was just typing that one up!

Happy belated birthday!

We were doing the same thing? That must mean something. Thanks for the biryday wishes, jayt. I was going to go trolling for them in the Book Salon but decided that would be way inappropriate. So I wanted until Late Night. BTW, who has a b’day today? Somebody. I forget.

BTW, who has a b’day today? Somebody. I forget.

I think it’s Rayne…

hey guys, there is a fitz fix

irving libby is dropping his appeal

Compromised. Pelosi, Harman, and Rockefeller have been morally, politically, and perhaps legally compromised. We need better democrats than that. They need to be primaried by the best we can find.

Yeah. That’s right.

but, but, but the US is not a democracy… bush, the republicans, and the Vichy Dems don’t care what the people want; and the military, well according to Mitch McConnell, they’re expendable anyway because they volunteered so who really cares what they think. The republicans support the troops by getting ‘em killed and maimed, and using their sacrifice to silence opposition to republican fantasies of world empire.
.

here’s the link to irving throwing in the towel

A young marine told me that The Geneva Conventions say that a soldier must not shoot a child bearing a firearm who has fired on him. The marine asked me if I thought that (The Geneva Convention rule) was a just rule.

The Geneva convention says no such thing.

and who can forget according to the gooper Boner –”a small price to pay”

Shrubco has tried to pay as small a price as possible to the soldiers.

OT, Vick sentenced to 23 months

Ah. The long-awaited promise of a full pardon has arrived.

Leave it to the Limbaugh set to try and use the killing of children in order to pump up support for US soldiers.

Despicable beyond words.

The young Marine should do some reading, by the way.

-G

Two words: Haditha massacre

I said that a young marine had made that (evidently erroneous) assertion. He’d asked my opinion based on his assertion. I did not present the situation in such a manner as to state with absolute certainty that this supposed Geneva Conventions rule exists. In retrospect, the point now seems to be that some young marines are swayed by what Limbaugh is teaching them and thusly regurgitate false information. The right-wing rhetoric had filtered down to me in that dialogue with the young marine.

Your point is understood. I added: Torture is also a war crime, no? It is isn’t it? Yet, it seems to matter very little. Children are used in war and so is torture. Bushco has done a great deal to marginalize the Geneva Conventions (quaint), Human Rights, etc.

I heard that the Geneva Conventions says the West should submit to Islamo-fascism too!

Whoofah, there are so many morons in America, so little time to correct their propgandadized minds.

-G

It might be good if you read the thread too

This marine is a right-winger from hell. He probably heard it on Limbaugh and regurgitated it on me.

First of all the original post makes little sense and, as much of a pig as Rush is, no one has any idea if he said this or not.

Raven, I thought I was clearly making that point. It’s me, GSD, please don’t think I was attacking you.

I saw the whole context, I know what you meant.

-:)

OT - Libby dropping appeal story currently on MSNBC tv.

I like the equation where you multiply Glenn Reynolds years of service by Malkins. Malkin is still in the age range to ship her delusional ass to Iraq–why doesn’t she do it? For the same reason chicken-hawk self annointed pundits all over the media and air waves and government don’t–they want to play Gladiator at other individuals and families expense and are oblivious to the amount of treasure it’s costing the taxpayers.

You will hear or read damn little talk about the cost of Iraq.

A caller to our local Air America station stated their son was going for his 5th deployment to Iraq. Can you imagine that?

It is like groundhog day movie but it is unending war.
Generational military families are breaking the tradition. This year the Phoenix Veterans parade allowed the local Anti-war coalition to march in the parade.

Prarie, WADR, I don’t think “critical mass” HAS been reached yet.

I think it will happen this spring or summer. The “yield” from the splurge has yielded all it’s going to yield. Bullshit speeches in the White House press room won’t change:

Gordon Brown’s meeting in Iraq with the Brit troops to tell them “your war in Iraq is over”, as he prepares to turn over Basra to the Iraqi government, which is to say, to the militias and the warlords. The Brits are down to 4500 troops hunkered down behind the wire at the Basra Airport. By this spring, that will be halved, and they will all probably be gone by the election next November. So will the Aussies and the polls.

The republican dinosaurs cannot afford to have 170,000 american troops trapped in what amounts to the world’s largest-ever hostage situation, with the elections bearing down on them like the post-Jurassic meteor. They will HAVE to bring home large numbers of them, and when they do, we will be right back to square one, or worse, with the factional violence.
Al Sadr’s patience is about gone, and some of his followers don’t like his tugging on their leashes, at a time when bush and CentCom are showering money and small arms on the same Sunnis who’ve been attacking them, in bush’s effort to reduce the chaos and mayhem in Iraq.
THAT recruiting gambit, like everything else bush is doing in Iraq now, is about nothing except trying to buy time to give goatboy and the GOP a chance to get out of Iraq and dump the flaming bag of shit in the democrats laps.

The Kurds seem willing to let that by-Dec.-31st constitutionally mandated referendum on the future of Kirkuk, expire without insisting that it take place, but there will be a price to pay for that, too.

Nothing has changed in Iraq. Everything that’s happening there is predicated on the success of the american military occupation of the country, and that is dying the death of a thousand cuts, and will continue to die it. But the loss-of-blood will become critical over the next few months, and I think the willingness of the democrats to put Iraq on the back burner in their debates, is going to disappear, under the pressure of reality, and of events in Iraq, itself, and I hope, because of the desire of some of them, to try to salvage something from the monstrous fuckup that bush has created in Iraq.

If Hillary Clinton has not secured the democratic nomination within the next three primaries; that is, Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina, she won’t be able to secure it. Iraq will become a feral hog, out of control and eating everything in sight. It will trigger OTHER “hogs”; with bush’s war-on-the-cuff; such as the price of oil, and the decline of the dollar.

All of this is shit-their-pants-scary to bushCo, and the media, and the corporate elite; AND to the republican lites like Clinton and Pelosi and Reid, etc.

Everything that these people do now will be to try to make this a “normal” election, with the “safe” issues of health care, the SS lockbox, taxes, etc, being talked about, as the cottage people dutifully don’t get TOO mad about what the republicans, with implicit, and sometimes, EXplicit democratic approval, are doing to the country.

The GOP has been trying to use illegal immigrants as red herrings, to drag over the scent of a half-million or more dead, and that half-a-trillion dollars down the tube, in bush’s clusterfuck, but that’s dicey stuff, as the Latinos, with their growing political power, have little interest in being demonized by the jingos, as they try to divert attention from the misery of Iraq.

What we need to do is watch our own candidates, to see if they have the courage to go after bush AND the democrats who’ve supported him in the shitmire. If they don’t, we’ll know the fix is in, and it might be time to start looking at property in Costa Rica.

Yep, and getting ready for that pardon…

OT–

Some anniversary:

“Seven years ago tomorrow, I read my own political obituary in a judgment that seemed to me harsh and mistaken — if not premature. But that unwelcome verdict also brought a precious if painful gift: an opportunity to search for fresh new ways to serve my purpose. Unexpectedly, that quest has brought me here. Even though I fear my words cannot match this moment, I pray what I am feeling in my heart will be communicated clearly enough that those who hear me will say, ‘We must act.’” — Former Vice President Al Gore, accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in Oslo, Norway, today.

On the night of Tuesday, Dec. 12, 2000, a divided Supreme Court issued its opinions in Bush v. Gore, assuring that George W. Bush would become the 43rd president of the United States.

The decision to drop his appeal is also a tactical one. Even if a federal appeals court overturned Libby’s conviction, it would only lead to a new trial. If Libby were convicted again, a presidential commutation wouldn’t apply, meaning he might have to serve jail time. And by that time, President Bush likely would be out of office.

well in that case the appeal was foolish to mount in the first place and was done for marketing purposes only

ding

Any discussion of the actual cost should include a real assesment of the damage done to the military. The major loss of Captains and below from the officer corp and the death and non-reenlistment of E-5 and above means the loss of the institutional knowledge. Without those peop;e to pass this on the military will take generations to fix.

I said that a young marine had made that (evidently erroneous) assertion. He’d asked my opinion based on his assertion. I did not present the situation in such a manner as to state with absolute certainty that this supposed Geneva Conventions rule exists. In retrospect, the point now seems to be that some young marines are swayed by what Limbaugh is teaching them and thusly regurgitate false information.

One of my key frustration all my life has been the tendency of the right to make shit up and to buy into the shit that each other make up. And to have the masses go along with it. And to be dismissed as something of a nut if you call them on it. But the availablity of the Internet is having an impact on people willingness to fact check.

Just as it was after Vietnam.

It matters little what the specific source was for the information, except to state that it came from a young marine who is a hard core winger. I’ve known this kid and his family for years. The kid wanted to fight in Bush’s GWOT. He is an avid fan of Rush and watches Hannity, Glen Beck, O’Reilly, etc. He believes every word. The fabrication could have come from any right wing source. His parents (both Republican business types), not so much into the war thing, are taken aback by their son’s enthusiasm for all things Bushco/GWOT. His mother, now is dialing back her republicanism. She is terribly worried and upset.

raven:

What’s with raven1? You couldn’t sign up for the newly designed site with raven? I’ve noticed handle changes with a few other FDLers as well.

What we need to do is watch our own candidates, to see if they have the courage to go after bush AND the democrats who’ve supported him in the shitmire

None of these Republican and Democratic Candidates belong to or represent the People. They are owned lock, stock, and barrel by Goldman Sachs and the Industrial Military Complex.

It matters little what the specific source was for the information, except to state that it came from a young marine who is a hard core winger. I’ve known this kid and his family for years. The kid wanted to fight in Bush’s GWOT. He is an avid fan of Rush and watches Hannity, Glen Beck, O’Reilly, etc. He believes every word.

When people start shoveling that shit, we’ve got to call them on it.
If they dig in, propose a wager: “Twenty dollars say you can’t find it anywhere in the Geneva Conventions.”

Petraeus, as Bush’s frontman has really placed the US soldiers in Iraq in a very dangerous situation.

The arming, funding and coddling of Sunni extremists is going to blow back on him and the US troops in a bad way.

The clock is ticking on that timebomb.

It strikes me as criminal.

-G

“[When] corruption.. has prevailed in those offices [of]… government and [has] so familiarized itself as that men otherwise honest could look on it without horror,… [then we must] be alive to the suppression of this odious practice and… bring to punishment and brand with eternal disgrace every man guilty of it, whatever be his station.” –Thomas Jefferson to W. C. C. Claiborne, 1804. (*)

well in that case the appeal was foolish to mount in the first place and was done for marketing purposes only

Well, hopefully he kept the appeals process going long enough to waste spend all of the money “his” friends donated…

I wonder which will be longer for Christmas 2008 - Bush’s Christmas Card List, or his Pardon List…?

Right Wigwam. Me too. Its one of those kinds of issues. The tanking of American education standards - replacement of critical thinking skills - with teaching to the test has helped to contribute to a vast number of incurious, uneducated citizens (now consumers) who can’t read (won’t read) and get all their information (any info) from the teevee. Right wing propaganda and fear mongering comprise about 95 percent of news programming.

IMO it is to make very difficult for the Dem president to withdraw from Iraq. The Sunnis will only play nice while we pay them off. On the other side, Sadr is just waiting to eat Maliki’s lunch and then leave him in the dumpster behind the cafeteria. So for the sake of not leaving chaos behind, the next admin will be under a lot pressure to stay.

Both criminal and stupid. Here’s Bush saying that the prime objective is to stabilize the democratically elected Iraqi government in a nation that is 60% Shiite, and Petraeus is arming, training, and paying protection money to that governments deadliest enemy. And none of our Very Serious Ones is calling him on it.

Jane’s upstairs…on Libby dropping his appeal.

Listening to Beck this morning by defaul…..he says: “Bush will take care of the Iranian nuke threat before he leaves office.” The cluster *uck, like a dust storm is rolling towards confrontation which provides the cover of national security and state secrets to hide the evidence required to demonstrate illegalities……

The good news is the Internet. People who’d never make a trip to the library can now look stuff up effortlessly. We have to get people to develop the google reflex: “Don’t sit there wondering; check it out.”

until the wire is cut………..

I do think critical mass has been reached…the question is where does it go from here? Mothers, dads, troops, traditional DFHs, you name the demographic. Oprah–the key point I saw someone mention was not so much that she spoke publicly, vigorously for Obama–but that she spoke against the war. Publicly. Vigorously.

How wisely–or not–will candidates respond? How wisely–or not–will politicians respond? Will they understand that we, the American people, have crossed the Rubicon. Which shore will they stand…or move forward on?

There are turning points for nations when the status quo is absolutely overwhelmed by the tide of change. I think we’re there. For both parties. For the media. For the MIC economy. Will they be part of the future? Or left in the dustbin of history/the 20th Century.

And I do see an overarching harmonic convergence in Obama-Oprah, Gore’s Nobel speech today, Edwards determined One America campaign, the sentencing of Conrad Black, the NIE disclosure, the…..

How do members of the Bush family feel about Bush’s war? Apparently they disagree because not one of them is willing to serve. Still, it would be interesting to see someone ask them.

Right! If the pen is mightier than the sword, the blog is mightier than the ICBM. Individuals can’t be allowed such dangerous tools. They might use them irresponsibly.

We need better democrats than that. They need to be primaried by the best we can find.

I don’t think America will last through another primary if some of these atrocities are not addressed.

I’m pretty sure W’s mother asked why she would waste her beautiful mind thinking about the war… …anyone know the exact context?

Do you think having reached a critical mass, Bushco will need to be at war with Iran more than ever?

It could be a risky move, but if enough soldiers are killed by those “evil Iranians” America could be distracted enough by our response to forget all about destroyed tapes, torture, Iraq, and that constitution the DFH’s used to talk about…

Yea, when I tried it wouldn’t let me. I had to use Raven1 to get the stupid Facebook to work and now it looks like I’m stuck with it.

I can’t find anything like this is the Geneva Conventions.

http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/si.....ocument#a2

The Conventions ban use of individuals under 15 years in the armed forces, so that anyone who recruited such a child would be in violation of the Convention.

But an armed child would remain a combatant, and thus could be fired upon until hors d’combat (i.e. removed from combat due to injury, disarmed, or surrendered). They are to be treated as a Prisoner of War until they are given a hearing to determine their status.

BTW In an area of combat, one can also fire upon armed civilians (combatants that are not wearing proper emblems or uniforms of the military of the enemy), just as they are official troops of the opposition force.

I think if they tried there would be strong resistance behind the curtain that we would never know about…for a loooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg time to come. There’s a lot, I suspect, going on behind the curtains right now that we won’t know about. And likely not by the people we think are or should be doing something. But then I’m a big fan of political thrillers…maybe we’ll get more truth out of the Baldaccis and Folletts of the world than the historians.

There is a sea change surging in this country. That’s the real surge that matters.

CIA photos ’show UK Guantanamo detainee was tortured’
Lawyers for a British resident who the US government refuses to release from Guantanamo Bay have identified the existence of photographs taken by CIA agents that they say show their client suffered horrific injuries under torture.
http://news.independent.co.uk/.....239372.ece

According to this, the majority of military families feel this way, not the troops. Long ago, most of the south wanted to keep slavery too, that didn’t make slavery right.

.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
never help other countries

maybe just send them money
never fight for their freedom

.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
just blame America

for all the ills of the world
don’t blame simple dictators

http://absurdthoughtsaboutgod.blogspot.com/
.

According to this, the majority of military families feel this way, not the troops

Er, no. “Military families” is inclusive of active duty members, vets, and families of both.

By the way, whether the military’s view on Iraq and Bush are “right” is a red herring. The post is about the wingnuts’ phony support of the troops.

And are you really going to go with the slavery analogy?

We all need to watch all four sections of this:
http://www.militarytimes.com/p.....dbrothers/
This lays out the attitude and causes for that attitude of actual combat troops.

Glenn Reynolds And Michelle Malkin do not matter. Enough with the personality games. People are dying while we snipe at the deserving ignorant and arrogant.

PUSH the Democrat “Leadership” to Shut Down the Governemnt if that is what it takes to get the troops out of Iraq. Do we have to wait until 99.99% of the people are ready to openly revolt before someone does something.

Shut It Down - the War or the Government. Let Bush Decide. If he wants to play stubborn, make it hurt. Make him explain why he is shutting down the government for a failed policy.

PUSH, Shove, Shut it Down.

Glenn Reynolds And Michelle Malkin do not matter.

I wish that were the case, but that’s not true. They are the most read bloggers on the right, and often given bigger platforms by the corporate media, and they’re a part of the poisonous megaphone that conflates the support with the troops with support of the President. The megaphone that the Democrats in the House and Senate apparently still fear.

If you write off the two biggest bloggers on the right as meaningless, then the corollary is also true — and we’re all just wasting our time here.

No they are not important. They address their public for their masters, and the left responds. We become a function of them.

We have a strong case and the right is shirnking, because the failed policies of the Bush “adminstation” even those who listen to Malkin and the likes have turned against Bush. Those left are the one Abe said you can fool all the time.

THe left give the Coulters and Malkins as much press as the right does. Stop it. If we ignore them, they will not go away but they will have to make it on their own. They are outrageous to get noticed. Everyone shook in fear of Rush L. Now where is he? They have a tendency to do themselves in.

We have a War to stop, make Pelosi afraid of us. We can’t do that playing Malkins game. The facts are on our side and for now so is the population. We just need to close.

Forget Malkin. Focus on ending the war, singularly. Spend the time on Pelosi and Reed as you do on “what is her name” and maybe we can stop the killing of our troops. Columnists have to think that other columnists are important for obvious reasons, but really, you guys are just part of the pig picture, not the picture itself.