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	<title>Comments on: Hillary Clinton Joins Joe Lieberman To Resurrect the Culture Wars</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/</link>
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		<title>By: beth meacham</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1142048</link>
		<dc:creator>beth meacham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1142048</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;All right, this is just confusing.  This is not a new post.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All right, this is just confusing.  This is not a new post.</p>
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		<title>By: cancercures</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1142034</link>
		<dc:creator>cancercures</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1142034</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;As a video gamer, and knowing many other video gamers whether through online, in real life, or people I just meet in competitions, we were the average kid. We were the ones who would rather play 4 hours of video rather than watch 4 hours of crappy network tv and commercials. To me, this is average.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ve played all those bad games Hillary Clinton warns America about. I look at myself in the mirror - Am I really that bad, because I played a game? Did that game affect me, like she says they are? If not me, maybe they are affecting others I know.. Yeah that’s it, it must be affecting others who cannot distinguish reality from fantasy.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The problem is, I can’t find anyone who fits this description. Are there some malignant people who play violent video games? Sure, there are some malignant people who don’t play violent video games. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My theory is that people who are generally fucked up, will be generally fucked up before they even touch video games. There are quite a few different genres of games - Does that mean it’s possible that if a derranged person picked up a football video game, they would dream of playing in the NFL? Maybe if we stocked our video game shelves with Sports games, we’d end up with a youth interested in football, not blowing away schools and churches? Maybe if the youngsters were spending more time playing games like ‘Sim City’ they would aspire to balance municipal budgets and services instead of making home made grenades.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What my folks did, or what I realized at the time, was there was a big difference between pressing buttons to fight villians on a game, and grabbing a rock to throw at the neighborhood kid. This is very simple to understand, so simple, that growing up with the amount of gaming friends I had, that all of us got along well enough with non-gamers, and there was no noticable different concerning attitudes or ‘desensitizing’ done that can be attributed to video games. I found more violence in kids growing up who grew up in fucked up houses with abusive parents, broken homes, drug-addicted parents. This is the problem - Not violent video games. And guess what - If he did play violent games, it is up to the parents of that house to either not allow the child to play that game (as in, parents: Do not buy your children violent video games), or teach them the difference of simulated violence versus real life violence. Teach them that violence is wrong. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It all stems down to parenting. If the child has responsible, loving parents, and grows up in a safe community, it won’t matter if he is playing soccer or playing ManHunt. On the flip side of it, imagine all those communities in America who are too poor to purchase these expensive game consoles. Is it safe to blame the lack of video games for violence or drug use?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There is another factor at work for youth violence. And if some out there are not convinced, well then it is time for them to be responsible parents and either teach their children, or not purchase those games. The answer is not to buy Hillary Clinton’s idea of banning violent video games outright. The answer is not to allow Hillary Clinton (or anyone for that matter) decide what games or what video or what music YOUR children should have access to. That’s for the parents to decide, not government, and not the game companies.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a video gamer, and knowing many other video gamers whether through online, in real life, or people I just meet in competitions, we were the average kid. We were the ones who would rather play 4 hours of video rather than watch 4 hours of crappy network tv and commercials. To me, this is average.</p>
<p>I’ve played all those bad games Hillary Clinton warns America about. I look at myself in the mirror &#8211; Am I really that bad, because I played a game? Did that game affect me, like she says they are? If not me, maybe they are affecting others I know.. Yeah that’s it, it must be affecting others who cannot distinguish reality from fantasy.</p>
<p>The problem is, I can’t find anyone who fits this description. Are there some malignant people who play violent video games? Sure, there are some malignant people who don’t play violent video games. </p>
<p>My theory is that people who are generally fucked up, will be generally fucked up before they even touch video games. There are quite a few different genres of games &#8211; Does that mean it’s possible that if a derranged person picked up a football video game, they would dream of playing in the NFL? Maybe if we stocked our video game shelves with Sports games, we’d end up with a youth interested in football, not blowing away schools and churches? Maybe if the youngsters were spending more time playing games like ‘Sim City’ they would aspire to balance municipal budgets and services instead of making home made grenades.</p>
<p>What my folks did, or what I realized at the time, was there was a big difference between pressing buttons to fight villians on a game, and grabbing a rock to throw at the neighborhood kid. This is very simple to understand, so simple, that growing up with the amount of gaming friends I had, that all of us got along well enough with non-gamers, and there was no noticable different concerning attitudes or ‘desensitizing’ done that can be attributed to video games. I found more violence in kids growing up who grew up in fucked up houses with abusive parents, broken homes, drug-addicted parents. This is the problem &#8211; Not violent video games. And guess what &#8211; If he did play violent games, it is up to the parents of that house to either not allow the child to play that game (as in, parents: Do not buy your children violent video games), or teach them the difference of simulated violence versus real life violence. Teach them that violence is wrong. </p>
<p>It all stems down to parenting. If the child has responsible, loving parents, and grows up in a safe community, it won’t matter if he is playing soccer or playing ManHunt. On the flip side of it, imagine all those communities in America who are too poor to purchase these expensive game consoles. Is it safe to blame the lack of video games for violence or drug use?</p>
<p>There is another factor at work for youth violence. And if some out there are not convinced, well then it is time for them to be responsible parents and either teach their children, or not purchase those games. The answer is not to buy Hillary Clinton’s idea of banning violent video games outright. The answer is not to allow Hillary Clinton (or anyone for that matter) decide what games or what video or what music YOUR children should have access to. That’s for the parents to decide, not government, and not the game companies.</p>
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		<title>By: OldCoastie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1142014</link>
		<dc:creator>OldCoastie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1142014</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Since Hillary steps up and supports Liberman all the time, so you suppose, if she gets the nomination, Slummy Joe will step up and support Hillary against all the slams and smears?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;something tells me he will join the haters…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since Hillary steps up and supports Liberman all the time, so you suppose, if she gets the nomination, Slummy Joe will step up and support Hillary against all the slams and smears?</p>
<p>something tells me he will join the haters…</p>
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		<title>By: Novista</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1142000</link>
		<dc:creator>Novista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1142000</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Argh!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Recently I read an article about a real study of violent video games. My bad, can’t find a link. But it was a double blind study, control group, etc. Good protocol. The results were interesting, broken down into three response types. A plurality of whom were actually less tense after 20 minutes; a small group that were more hyper after; the last was essentiall ho-hum about the whole experiment.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;One does remember that the violence in ancient Greek drama was intended to achieve ‘catharsis’. Maybe it was a good idea.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I remember years back, when I felt like shooting the TV, I’d walk away, play some Doom or Descent 2, name the real-life annoyances as I blew them away, and felt ever so much better. And the TV thanked me for it. ;-)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;*sigh* always some object to be demonised! Back in early 50s, some control freak wrote a book proving comic books would be the death of Western civilisation. It sold well.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And there was rock’n&#039;roll. And and and.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I still wonder why some people want the young not to be exposed to violence but an illegal war is different and OK?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Argh!</p>
<p>Recently I read an article about a real study of violent video games. My bad, can’t find a link. But it was a double blind study, control group, etc. Good protocol. The results were interesting, broken down into three response types. A plurality of whom were actually less tense after 20 minutes; a small group that were more hyper after; the last was essentiall ho-hum about the whole experiment.</p>
<p>One does remember that the violence in ancient Greek drama was intended to achieve ‘catharsis’. Maybe it was a good idea.</p>
<p>I remember years back, when I felt like shooting the TV, I’d walk away, play some Doom or Descent 2, name the real-life annoyances as I blew them away, and felt ever so much better. And the TV thanked me for it. ;-)</p>
<p>*sigh* always some object to be demonised! Back in early 50s, some control freak wrote a book proving comic books would be the death of Western civilisation. It sold well.</p>
<p>And there was rock’n&#8217;roll. And and and.</p>
<p>I still wonder why some people want the young not to be exposed to violence but an illegal war is different and OK?</p>
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		<title>By: SouthernDragon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1141921</link>
		<dc:creator>SouthernDragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1141921</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;How about “it is generally accepted that violent video games have the ability to de-sensitize children, some more than others, while some children have a better grasp on the reality of the real world and see the games for what they are.”  In other words, it was a generalization in which I didn’t want to write an essay based upon a review of the literature and my life experiences.  I apologize for any offense.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about “it is generally accepted that violent video games have the ability to de-sensitize children, some more than others, while some children have a better grasp on the reality of the real world and see the games for what they are.”  In other words, it was a generalization in which I didn’t want to write an essay based upon a review of the literature and my life experiences.  I apologize for any offense.</p>
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		<title>By: cancercures</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1141837</link>
		<dc:creator>cancercures</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 01:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1141837</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Southern Dragon @131,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I take offense to that. I’ve played violent video games since I was a kid. I am not desensitized. I still play violent video games too. Some of them are a lot of fun.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Southern Dragon @131,</p>
<p>I take offense to that. I’ve played violent video games since I was a kid. I am not desensitized. I still play violent video games too. Some of them are a lot of fun.</p>
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		<title>By: BDBlue</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1141733</link>
		<dc:creator>BDBlue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 00:13:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1141733</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I do think Clinton gets hammered for things others get away with (can you imagine if she’d used Bob Novak’s column to attack Obama?) and I don’t think it makes her some great panderer or “Lieberman Democrat.”  She was actually fairly supportive of Lamont in the general election, much more so than Obama (her husband was a different story).  So I think drawing any great ideas about her from this is wrong.  But that doesn’t make her position on this issue right.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If this is an attempt to prove she can work with Republicans, I wish she wouldn’t.  She’s never going to convince folks of that even if she has worked on legislation with them successfully and on better issues than this.   The MSM has decided on her narrative - with help from Edwards and Obama - and it’s that she’s polarizing.  Now, i don’t want to work with Tom Coburn and Mitch McConnell so I’m okay with polarizing.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think Clinton gets hammered for things others get away with (can you imagine if she’d used Bob Novak’s column to attack Obama?) and I don’t think it makes her some great panderer or “Lieberman Democrat.”  She was actually fairly supportive of Lamont in the general election, much more so than Obama (her husband was a different story).  So I think drawing any great ideas about her from this is wrong.  But that doesn’t make her position on this issue right.  </p>
<p>If this is an attempt to prove she can work with Republicans, I wish she wouldn’t.  She’s never going to convince folks of that even if she has worked on legislation with them successfully and on better issues than this.   The MSM has decided on her narrative &#8211; with help from Edwards and Obama &#8211; and it’s that she’s polarizing.  Now, i don’t want to work with Tom Coburn and Mitch McConnell so I’m okay with polarizing.</p>
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		<title>By: SouthernDragon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1141726</link>
		<dc:creator>SouthernDragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 00:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1141726</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It’s a muggy morning, just after dawn.  The jungle is thick and you think the team sounds like a herd of elephants raging through a farmer’s field as you move towards the little hamlet where the head VC in the area is supposed to be based.  Just nerves, the birds are still fluttering around in the trees.  They don’t know we’re here.  The quiet is suddenly broken by the chatter of automatic rifle fire.  In the blink of an eye you’re covered with the blood and brains of the guy in front of you.  The world is filled with the roar of gunfire and smell of cordite.  Less than two minutes later it’s all over.  You’re lucky.  You’re not hit and Charlie has lost 3 men, including your target.  CIA won’t be asking this guy any questions.  You’ve got 1 dead and 2 wounded.  Fast, furious little firefight and not one second could be described as anything resembling fun.  Think two minutes isn’t much time?  Sit still and quiet in front of a clock with a second hand and watch two minutes tick by.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I keep thinking about how video games de-sensitize kids to violence but it would take hours to write it all out.  I also thinks it diminishes the humanity of those who play them.  The violence in the games teach players to see people as objects rather than living, sentient beings.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s a muggy morning, just after dawn.  The jungle is thick and you think the team sounds like a herd of elephants raging through a farmer’s field as you move towards the little hamlet where the head VC in the area is supposed to be based.  Just nerves, the birds are still fluttering around in the trees.  They don’t know we’re here.  The quiet is suddenly broken by the chatter of automatic rifle fire.  In the blink of an eye you’re covered with the blood and brains of the guy in front of you.  The world is filled with the roar of gunfire and smell of cordite.  Less than two minutes later it’s all over.  You’re lucky.  You’re not hit and Charlie has lost 3 men, including your target.  CIA won’t be asking this guy any questions.  You’ve got 1 dead and 2 wounded.  Fast, furious little firefight and not one second could be described as anything resembling fun.  Think two minutes isn’t much time?  Sit still and quiet in front of a clock with a second hand and watch two minutes tick by.  </p>
<p>I keep thinking about how video games de-sensitize kids to violence but it would take hours to write it all out.  I also thinks it diminishes the humanity of those who play them.  The violence in the games teach players to see people as objects rather than living, sentient beings.</p>
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		<title>By: goldberry</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1141669</link>
		<dc:creator>goldberry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 23:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1141669</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What is it about this that you find so egregious?  Is it the proximity of Clinton to Lieberman?  Granted, I find that visual nauseating as well.  But the actual issue is quite reasonable.  I fail to see why we’re getting so exercised over this.  Hillary is not a one trick pony.  She’s not about to “fix” social security or present a healthcare policy that doesn’t cover everyone.&lt;br /&gt;
Is it just me or does it seem that teeny tiny things that Hillary does are blown way out of proportion to their actual impact?  We don’t do this to any other candidate.  Edwards gets a pass on just about everything.  obama is only NOW starting to feel some heat.  But Clinton has had it coming for months to the point that she even looks like she is breathing conservatively.&lt;br /&gt;
Dial it down a notch, guys.  We’re up to eleven here and there’s no good reason for it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is it about this that you find so egregious?  Is it the proximity of Clinton to Lieberman?  Granted, I find that visual nauseating as well.  But the actual issue is quite reasonable.  I fail to see why we’re getting so exercised over this.  Hillary is not a one trick pony.  She’s not about to “fix” social security or present a healthcare policy that doesn’t cover everyone.<br />
Is it just me or does it seem that teeny tiny things that Hillary does are blown way out of proportion to their actual impact?  We don’t do this to any other candidate.  Edwards gets a pass on just about everything.  obama is only NOW starting to feel some heat.  But Clinton has had it coming for months to the point that she even looks like she is breathing conservatively.<br />
Dial it down a notch, guys.  We’re up to eleven here and there’s no good reason for it.</p>
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		<title>By: goldberry</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1141664</link>
		<dc:creator>goldberry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 23:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-joins-joe-lieberman-to-resurrect-the-culture-wars/#comment-1141664</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I appreciate your level headed response.  However, I would have to disagree with you about Obama.  The post Bush era is going to be very rough.  The Bushies pretty much destroyed the executive branch and planted booby traps in every department.  If it isn’t fixed, it could have severe repercussions on the way we do business both domestically and internationally.  It’s very important to stabilize.  Clinton has the best shot at doing that well.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate your level headed response.  However, I would have to disagree with you about Obama.  The post Bush era is going to be very rough.  The Bushies pretty much destroyed the executive branch and planted booby traps in every department.  If it isn’t fixed, it could have severe repercussions on the way we do business both domestically and internationally.  It’s very important to stabilize.  Clinton has the best shot at doing that well.</p>
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