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Our nation’s democracy inaction, courtesy of your Sunday morning tee vee:
Fox News Sunday: Mike Huckabee and Sen. John McCain, in a foretaste of the awkward racist, theocratic nightmare that will be tonight’s GOP Univision debate.
Meet the Press: Rudy Giuliani, apparently for the full hour, in another installment of NBC’s
Smooch the Potato HeadMeet the Candidates Series, wherein Rudy will blandly dismiss questions about this while looking like Nosferatu (no makeup can save him). There will be no follow up questions.ABC’s This Week: Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del. and former Speaker Newt Gingrich manage to tear themselves away from all their preferred activities on a Sunday morning (yeah, I laughed when I wrote it, too). Roundtable exhumes Sam Donaldson, disturbs Cokie Roberts and constipates George Will, yet all three will gather for another round of dueling harrumphs. Actor John Cusack talks about his new film"Grace is Gone." According to ABC, "the film attempts to look at the consequences and human cost of the war in a non-partisan, non-polemic way." Because one must never have a point of view when discussing killed people.
CBS Face the Nation: Sens. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., and Chuck Hagel, R-Neb. Jello Jay will say both yes and no while talking about considering taking some action that no one actually believes he will in fact take, and Hagel will say some of the things that have gotten him drummed out of the Republican Party for insufficient bloodlust (see: Nosferatu).
CNN Late Edition: Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif.; Rep. John Boehner, R-Ohio. Musharraff will wax eloquent on the virtues of the simulacrum of democracy while Georgetown heads nod approvingly. I have no idea what the other two Republicans will have to say.
In the comments, please offer your ideas for the best possible drinking game to devise for tonight’s GOP debate on Univision, wherein the candidates will at once try to pretend to care about the Latino vote while proving to their base that they really do hate us beaner fuckers after all (and much more than the old dude next to them does).
(Hat tips to the many among the FDL Late Nite commenters, who helped me with teh google to assemble this sorry mess.)
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im going back to bed…if thasts all they got
Sheldon Whitehouse
Good morning Pach, hilarious pic.
Does the Dept of Justice work on Sundays?
truly they should just open the prison doors..because the real criminals are on the outside…the minis are incarcerated
That close. Fiddlesticks!
I’m more concerned with does the Dept of Justice work on any day of the week. It’s close to nonfunctional right now. Loosehead says cases are not going forward even on regular crimes, let alone investigations.
Good morning Pach,
OK, so I go get a bottle of tequila, a lime (and I’ll look for that lost shaker of salt)
keyshotwords: well using “9-11″ would kill me (can’t believe Guiliani’s still in this race) “War on Terror” prolly too. Same with “Clinton”
Wow. We need a Special Prosecutor…
George Mitchell is ready after the Steroids report is released
this week?
We can’t wait another 20 months, though…
Sheldon Whitehouse
Good morning, gang!
Jeebus, I hear the coffee brewing. It can’t finish gurgling fast enough.
if the wapo article is true, i want to see speaker pelosi and some other dems at the hague with president bush on trial for war crimes.
Selise,
Thank you SOOO much for the Sheldon Whitehouse video! He’s a favorite of mine. What a speech. It’s gratifying to see somebody stand up for the the rule of law.
Yes, how about Dennis K as Speaker of the House, not a Tweaker
of the House of Cards…
Good morning all!
What a sad Sunday line up.
If you took a drink whenever one of the candidates says “immigration”, “reform”, “broken”, or “opportunity” I think you’ll be well on your way to being loaded in about 25 minutes.
Are they doing it in English and subtitling it? I’d like to see interpreters relaying to the Spanish audience what the candidates REALLY mean. That would be hilarious.
or how about any of these words?
success
Reagan values
follow – as in follow us home
surrender
faith
road map
Hi Selise. That’s exactly what I was thinking. Congressmen take an oath to support the constitution. In so very many ways, Pelosi has failed to live up to that oath.
You forgot “family”.
add “It’s Clinton’s fault”
I wonder how many of them will point out that the last president to oversee an immigration amnesty was. . .. Ronald Reagan?
I like the “list” thingy… someone could produce a fine article or Letter
to the Editor…
Oh, don’t forget “secular”. That’s a good one. It’s a religion. Of atheists. Look it up.
I also read that this morning with a slightly sick feeling. It is becoming very obvious that a number Dems are nearly as guilty as the rest of Bushco.
I completely agree those Dems should have a space reserved at the Hague… …but how are we gonna get them there?
What is the Catholic church’s position on Mormonism?
This is not intended as snark, but you’re free to take it that way.
I heard McCain speaking in NH…
Reason why they lost the 2006 elections — feed up with too much spending.
What the fuck, what planet is he on?
WAR, CORRUPTION, and CHANGE…
yesterday i know speaker pelosi and many of the other dems in congress were not living up to the oath to defend the constitution. today (if the wapo is correct) i’ve learned that she helped cover up and facilitate torture.
i’m still in shock – even though, if i try to be honest with myself, we had reason to suspect it before now.
Sunday mornin’ talkin-head lineup, now with added snark.
Excellent.
knowknewyou’re right selise, we shouldn’t be shocked,
but I am too
and that sure is one ugly bird you got pictured there.
Thanks. There are a few lines in there I rather liked when I wrote them.
But you never know how they will play. When I speak before groups, some stuff I love, and I get no reaction. I look at them and say, “Um, some of these are just for me.”
re: senator whitehouse video.
over 900 people have watched at least part of if since newtonusr posted the link in a thread late friday night.
Per the wikipedia’s entry on LDS:
Catholics have similar ideas about the Pope — an obvious conflict between the two.
i should apologize for going ot so soon, pach. please forgive me… just still trying to get over last night revelations regarding the level of complicity by our congressional dems in bush’s torture policies.
No worries on OT. Do you think I can stand to watch these shows? It’s Sunday morning, ferkrysaykes.
Besides, where else am I gonna find the story I want to hit for 11 AM?
Fly, google monkeys, fly! What’s catching your eye this morning?
Blogger threatens LA campus shooting
I figured there would have to be. If Romney gets the nomination, it will be interesting to see what the Vatican’s reaction will be.
The Republican candidate list is spectacularly God-awful
Good morning everyone, so good to see Pach on the front page.
As if it would be anything else.
A couple of days ago I was reading a Guardian piece on the destruction of the CIA waterboarding tapes. Interestingly, the writer used the term “controlled drowning”.
Yet another example of Orwell’s essay “Politics & the English Language” being right on the mark. Maybe we should start using the term. De-sanitise it. Tell it how it is. State sanctioned controlled drowning.
You and I have discussed the question of whether dem leaders facilitate the Bush agenda in response to pressure or out of personal belief. The fact seems to be that they are involved too far to back out now. It’s likely that Nancy Peolsi is criminally involved and has been told so, and is being (perhaps indirectly) blackmailed into faculitating this horrible mess in Washington.
Controlled drowning — what a bone chilling term, malicious
*shivers*
At the bottom of that article – re a previous threat:
On Friday, an Australian man was arrested after he allegedly posted a message saying a shooting attack would take place at The Grove mall near Beverly Hills.
Jarrad Willis, 20, of Melbourne, was arrested after Los Angeles Police Department detectives traced to Australia the address of his Internet provider. Willis has been charged in Australia with creating a false belief — a violation of Australian law.
Good lord – if the U.S. had that law, the Capitol building would be empty.
This is the real rub. Forget about blackmail, why will any Dem begin the proceedings to impeach this criminal government when it will open the can of worms that will bring up their own crimes.
http://www.9news.com/news/loca…..ryid=82457
Well, that’s just dandy. If he fled on foot they can follow him; there’s plenty of snow on the ground.
Denver story link?
PeteCO
Another way to answer your question about the LDS and the Catholic Church is has to do with baptism. According to the Catholic church, a convert to Catholicism who was baptized in another Christian denomination (i.e., Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist) does not get “re-baptized” by a Catholic priest. Despite the differences in beliefs between the denominations, Catholics accept the baptism administered by these other Christian traditions.
Converts from non-Christian faith traditions, on the other hand, must get baptized by a Catholic priest if they convert to Catholicism. LDS converts to Catholicism fall in this group.
Break out the kneedpads
NBC Decides to Run Conservative Group Ad
yes.
whether it started from personable belief or not – once involved, i can see that it would take on a life of its own and be self sustaining (from external and internal pressures) even without personal belief.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22168660/
I pasted the whole item here, so there’s no additional info at the source.
That’s interesting. So they don’t regard Mormons as Christian.
I wonder if the Eastern Orthodox church takes the same position?
I’d rather poke myself in the eye with a hot stick than watch any of the above shows. The obvious and important questions never get asked, and in the rare case it does, it certainly won’t get answered (truthfully or otherwise.)
Many thanks to those you have the sense of duty (and stomach lining) to watch this crapfest so we don’t have to.
Huck and The Mark of McCain on Fox News Sunday! Yechhhh!
Anyone find it odd that Mike Huckabees ascendance corresponded to this article in the Rolling Stone?
Rolling Stone
My hypotheses are that
1) the average reader of Rolling Stone can’t read beyond the first few paragraphs and thought “Wow, Huck pardoned Keith Richards! That’s awesome! Maybe he’ll pardon me because I can bet I can play guitar better than Keith Richards!”
2) Fundies heard about the article and said “Whatever Rolling Stone says…do the opposite!”
3) Fundies actually read the article and said…Huck is cool! He believes the earth is 7000 years old, that only Christians will go to heaven, and that taxes are bad since the earth is going into Apocalypse soon- who’s gonna collect on the deficit, anyways?
And all that without the stuff about Huck wanting to quarantine a million HIV positive people in concentration camps…whose basic amenities would be paid ONLY through donations from “Hollywood types like Madonna, Liz Taylor, and Barbara Streisand”
Late Edition on CNN hack-tack-ular
No one commented on my DiFi joke. Maybe because it’s not really a joke. O well.
Hucklebee on Fox News confronted with his prior AIDS comments, he sputtered an answer but gee Chris Wallace didn’t hit very hard. (First five minutes of show)
The Eastern Orthodox do have the same position, and see the LDS as non-Christian.
Naomi Wolf missed this one in her Ten Steps to Fascism. Make your opponents complicit in your crimes. There is an old video of a meeting of Saddam Hussein’s government, where he accuses some of them of treason, and they all start denouncing each other. IIRC, he had some of these guys act as executioners to the others, tying them to him. It was a BBC documentary from years ago.
Many thanks to those you have the sense of duty (and stomach lining) to watch this crapfest so we don’t have to.
I’ll watch MTP, just to see what color velvet gloves Timmeh wears while he
interrogatesquestionsstrokes The King of 9-11.(Shuster said the other day he expects Rudy to be “grilled” harshly by Timmeh). Jesus, David, you’re supposed to be the smart one. To be fair, at the time he was sitting next to JoeScar – may teh stoopid got spilled on him or something.
I didn’t interpret that as a joke so much as a sad fact.
You made a joke about DiFi? All I saw was “I have no idea what the other two Republicans will have to say.”
Dianne Feinstein R California yeah …I guess it didn’t seem strange to my mind’s eye so I just went right on….:)
She is lot like Gov Gropper.
damn, I need a Preview or Edit button. Preferably both – would settle for either – ’cause that comment didn’t work at all…
Try a refresh. I performed an intervention based on what I’m guessing you wanted?
Pach -
Quite some delicious snark you’re serving up for Sunday bunch! *g*
If we can’t get a preview or edit button – can we please have a “deleted by author” in its place? That way we can try again.
It would be to Hucksterbee’s advantage to embrace those comments, I would have thought.
The average Pox News viewer supports throwing HIV positive people in camps, along with blacks, Hispanics, gays, jews, and anyone else they don’t like, especially far-left bloggers who hate America.
Per Ken Silverstein http://harpers.org/archive/2007/12/hbc-90001879
From downstairs -
{{{ jayt }}}
hey thanks Pach!!
(((jayt)))
I left you a slightly longer message downstairs.
Off now to move some wood to the back porch.
Even more so, the entire advertising industry would collapse.
The FDL tech gurus can work miracles, but they can only work them one at a time.
I was talking to my six year old, after he heard me getting upset at screwing up a comment and being unable to fix it. He knows all about Preview and Edit, and he told me “It’ll be OK, Daddy. It’s like when we moved from CA and I couldn’t play with my toys until we found the right box and got it unpacked.”
From the mouths of babes . . .
Univision was, until last year, was owned by their CEO Jerry Perenchio a virulently right-wing Conservative. Perenchio, is not Hispanic, though he saw an opportunity of making vast amounts of money from advertising to Hispanics in the US. He provided financial backing for just about every right wing initiative attempting to restrict Hispanic positions in California: the English Only Initiative, the initiative that tried to ban medical and educational services to Non-Citizens, and just recently he backed the Initiative to convert California from a “winner take all” election to splitting off votes by Congressional District (thus giving the Republican Presidential candidate up to 40% of the States electoral votes).
Last year he dumped the network onto the laps of investors who failed to realize, apparently, that the network had ten times the operating budget and debt as it actually had in cash flow.
http://www.laprensa-sandiego.o…../donor.htm
The article above makes me laugh…as if Perenchio wants to be a little guy and wouldn’t mind losing all that money that allows him to steal peoples votes, elect those that shape the system so that the wealthy, like him, pay few taxes, and so that we continue to put this country into deep debt supporting an utterly non-productive military economic sector.
In re: drinking game for Univision debate for Rs?
Everytime they claim to not be like that nasty person Tancredo (who is not supposed to be showing up) and that they REALLY luvs their Hispanic brothers and sisters and just want the best for them in their home countries instead of here.
Foreign affairs panel calls for overhaul of state dept
Bali: U.S. “NO” on mandatory caps at UN climate summit
Re: Pelosi knowing about the torture. We need to be careful about the sourcing in this. There are two “official” sources for the article, at least one appears to be a Congressman. The other appears to be a CIA official who was either directing or performing the “interrogation”.
Here’s my logic. The only individuals familiar with what these individuals actually saw in the briefing would be the participants themselves. The programs are so secret that the complaints regarding them are not even typed up by staffers, they are handwritten. Recall that Rockefeller complained about the FISA violations regarding domestic surveillance and wrote a copy of his own letter so that he could use it later.
So the fact that the briefing was made by a “virtual tour”, that it included waterboarding, who the Congressional Leaders who were present, the details of discussion means that the “sources” were individuals who were actually present. Roberts, according to the article, was not available for comment. I doubt Rockefeller would be the source (nor his predecessor Graham…who has denied being given any such information about waterboarding in any case). Pelosi wouldn’t be the source. That leaves only one Congressional source.
PORTER GOSS. And Goss later became CIA Director during the critical period when the recordings were destroyed. He was the one responsible for the appointment of Jose Rodriguez, the “model for Jack Bauer”, who destroyed the tapes. He was the one that forced the resignations or firings of dozens of CIA officers in the operations division because they were “not aggressive enough” in dealing with al Qaida and terrorism.
He’s gonna be one that most likely authorized the destruction of the tapes, me thinks. So we have a source who would be very intent on suggesting that no one objected to the torture. And note the careful phrasing.
a congressional source familiar with Pelosi’s position on the matter said the California lawmaker did recall discussions about enhanced interrogation. The source said Pelosi recalls that techniques described by the CIA were still in the planning stage — they had been designed and cleared with agency lawyers but not yet put in practice — and acknowledged that Pelosi did not raise objections at the time.
Hmm! How could a Congressional Source KNOW what Pelosi did or didn’t do AT THE TIME. How would they KNOW what she was familiar with? Remember that this was strictly classified information. The only “source” who could even have had a chance to know whether she had said anything at the meeting who appears to be talking is PORTER GOSS. Add to this fact that he would be the only one to know if Pelosi wrote a letter of complaint, as CIA Director (if he actually looked at the files and the WH provided him with it).
This reminds me a little bit of the effort that Scooter Libby tried to use to make himself up as a “Congressional aide”.
Who is the “second official” then? My suspicion is, since there needs to be a confirming source, is that this represents the CIA official who briefed the Congressional Intelligence Committee representatives. That would be someone who directed the torture interrogation programs. Rodriguez was “unavailable for comment” so perhaps it was one of the interrogators themselves. Amazing that they would be talking to the media when the whole rationale behind this was to protect their identities! The risk was supposedly to come from the carefully proscribed court process? Seems that this doesn’t fall under the “protected source” criteria that Congress just authorized for “reporter-source” protection, BTW.
So why would a CIA official even risk reporting this unless they themselves were one of those under threat of Prosecution…as all of this would have come out during any sort of trial IF TRUE.
But here we appear to have two individuals very concerned about covering up their own roles in the destruction of the tapes. appearing as sources asserting that Pelosi and either Rockefeller or Graham were informed about waterboarding and made no objections. That certainly diminishes their reliability, and I’m surprised that the WashPo doesn’t see that.
Maybe Pelosi will insist that the CIA release the Virtual Tour to Congress, and investigate just who is sourcing all this material.
BTW Recall that Mukasey is running his own investigation of the CIA’s Inspector General who is looking into just such criminal activities by the CIA. The IG was the one that initially brought the tapes to the attention of the courts.
Patience will be practiced – it just occurred a one button “erase” might work until the box with the other toys could be found. Thanks for the story though, that one is a keeper.
One of the key investors is Haim Saban, an Israeli multibillionaire who is a major backer of Hillary:
Saban is also the founder of the Saban Center, which employs Kenneth Pollack and lists Michael O’Hanlon as one of its affiliates. O’Hanlon and Saban center director Martin Indyk are foreign-policy advisors to Hillary.
left you a reply downstairs
I had similar questions about sources, but hadn’t yet taken the time to sort it all out.
If this is preemptive pushback by Goss, I have a feeling it will backfire on him. As you say, only so many folks have access to this material, and if Goss is found to be leaking it . . . well, Bush better just get his commutation pen ready.
Ann Coulter skates on her voter-fraud problem:
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5415
During the crisis in Ukraine, the tv interpreter for the deaf starting saying in sign language, “They’re lying…here’s the truth…” and it was quite a while before this person was stopped.
well I’d rather go to camp with HIV positive people, blacks, Hispanics, gays, Jews, and anyone else the R’s don’t like then live free without them.
Kind of reminds me of the old Doonesbury cartoons, when Uncle Duke was ambassador to China and Honey was his translator.
Honey: (He’s telling a joke. Look interested.)
Honey: (He’s building up to the punch line now. Please look extremely interested.)
Honey: (He hit the punch line. Please laugh uproariously.)
Just turned on The Meat as Russert cited a Joe Conason article on Da Ghoul’s security business. I’m a mite frazzled here so not paying close attention, but it’s lookin’ like Russert’s tryin’ to drive a few stakes into the heart of Da Ghoul.
Maybe Da Ghoul doesn’t realize the capos of Carlyle picked Mittens this year.
[yeah, yeah, I’m having Sopranos withdrawal and seeing Edie Falco on 30 Rock just isn’t enough….]
Prairie Sunshine dishes food for thought Tuesdays and Saturdays at Prairie Sun Rising.
Hey pac! I sincerely doubt anyone will bring up John Cusack’s equally awful Martian Child which was originally about gay Star Trek writer David Gerrold’s experience in adopting a boy. His then-lover left him because he wasn’t interested in kids. But Gerrold (whose novel The Man Who Folded Himself is a gay sci-fi masterpiece) went ahead anyway. And this was years before gay adoptions were common.
Naturally for the movie they de-gayed it entirely — turning the Gerrold-surrogate into a straight widower.
how convenient for her that they let the statute of limitations run out.
If you haven’t been over to ew’s place this morning, your comment is bang on target for her current post.
see also glenn greenwald’s post this morning.
General Electric doesn’t like Rude-y?
Does. not. compute.
From your response yesterday you seemed equally cautious about the sourcing on this. But today you seem to really be pushing the idea that Pelosi definitely knew about the water boarding and didn’t say anything about it being illegal or questionable.
That’s precisely what the Republicans (and there has to be at least ONE…since Pelosi can’t be either the primary source AND the confirming source) want the public to think.
This is a double positive for them if people believe it. First, it cuts the legs out from under the Democrats who oppose water boarding as torture. Second, it gives cover to those who not only tortured, but who approved the destruction of the tape.
That’s precisely why I suspect the article is bogus. If it was true the information would have been leaked back when the debate about water boarding was heatedly occurring in the House and Senate. It’s only being released now…as the role of CIA Director Porter Goss in the destruction of the tapes is coming out. The same Porter Goss who supposedly accompanied Pelosi to that special “virtual briefing”.
Pach,
This is from today’s Boston Globe in re: tonight’s debate
Short version?
Just working thru comments so maybe it’s discussed more later in this thread, but why pray tell should we believe anything at face value in the Washington Post? After the Obama uproar, I’m not inclined to believe anything the WaPoo prints until it’s fact-checked all over the board.
It sure would be convenient for BushCo to be able to say, but, but, but it’s all Nancy’s fault, since the it’s all Clinton’s fault doesn’t seem to work so well anymore.
Just a thought. I’m agnostic on Pelosi.
Tim Russert to Guiliani: Using that reasoning then, would it be proper for a President of the US to provide Secret Service protection to his mistress? (paraphrased, but close)
I loved that!
Yes, it would likely be criminal. But how to appoint a special prosecutor? But here’s something interesting. Porter Goss could be retroactively impeached from holding any future position of “honor, trust or profit under the US Government”. He couldn’t be impeached from Congress… but his holding of an Executive Dept. positions makes him susceptible to a Congressional impeachment action.
Suddenly Pelosi may be compelled to put impeachment “back on the table” if only to clear her name by Congressional hearings.
I got it Pach. But I’m still catching up on the thread.
i’ve been trying to include disclaimers of “if the wapo report is true”… but you’re right, i tend to think it probably is….
two reasons:
1) it explains a lot. and the best threats/blackmail are those that rely on a true accusations.
2) clinton’s role in setting up the extraordinary rendition program (and creating the legal “justifications” for it)
hope so much this report will be debunked or at least denied. guess we’ll see soon…
Knock me over with a feather! most of the FOX News “All-Stars” don’t believe in the NIE. But then again Kristol thinks the invasion of Iraq helped halt the development of nukes in Iran. He’s plum out of his mind.
I should have said he’s prune out his mind (it’s dried up)
Asked about Huckabee’s recommendation to segregate HIV patients, and his own feelings on whether gays are living immoral lives, short Rudy Guliani: Due to my own immoral proclivities, I have no room to talk.
I must say, this is more amusing that I thought it would be. I’m getting a pretty good laugh out of it.
because the authors are not hacks.
that said, imo, we must always be testing all sources.
No Senator Sheldon Whitehouse? Is there any coverage out there since I reported on finding none in MSM or googling other than blogosphere? Please tell me it isn’t true.
Even not-hack authors have editors.
Dionne, Hitchens, Borger on Reliable? Sources:
yes we can ask Mittens about his Mormon underwear. The precedent’s established.
interesting stuff………..
What does a “a virtual tour of the CIA’s overseas detention sites” look like?
Is it like those online tours of houses that realtors put on websites?
Carpetbagger;
http://www.thecarpetbaggerrepo…..more-13862
huckme……… no way!
Chris Matthews is all gushy over Mitt’s speech, he was surely inspired by it.
Sadly, Chris Matthews is a very shallow man.
“officials at the briefings “described the reaction as mostly quiet acquiescence, if not outright support.”….“The briefer was specifically asked if the methods were tough enough,” said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange…….”at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.”….And So On.
I can’t help thinking that ANYTHING that involves the WAPO and un-named government sources has to be dodgy, by definition. What else am I supposed to think? Everything else is a lie, so why would I think this isn’t?
How are they going to put this back in the bottle? the public should be ou.traged. No wonder the Dems cave
would you be referring to this particular interview?
Lets see…. we go to the craddle of man to instill democrazy on a civilization where religion anbd politics are inseparable. Man comes to America to get away from that “stuff,” Now we go back to instill our “stuff” and trade, or “steel oil” while the new “King” and his corporate cohorts in colonial crime make lots of money after we find out everything is a “grand illusion” I think of America’s reaction the radio reading of “War of the Worlds,” and how mislead they could have been????
I can’t believe what I’m watching? Was I not paying enough attention and lost a big portion of something? Newt Gingrich talking to Stephanopoulis about the NIE: Even the classified version didn’t say what those headlines were. The classified version said…(so is he purporting to speak publicly of classified information? How could he come by classified information. He shouldn’t have access now) Did I miss something about older and recently declassified or something? Why wouldn’t anybody else blink? Why didn’t George’s eyebrows raise?) Where have I gone wrong?
I’m referring to all his interviews and himself, personally. He was just born with this shallowness, something like a birth defect, or your IQ. I don’t think he can help himself; he’s just a shallow, vain man.
EW has a comment on the sourcing of that article in the comments for her current thread.
Rudy’s taking a beating on MTP.
Beat the Dress.
-G
Hi gang!
Me frustrated too, but then I read Peter’s delightful #75:
…
Yeah. The kids’ll fix the world mebbe.
In the meantime, what about trying a stab at [Reply to Self] for whoopsie-fixings?
dumb dumb dumb, but it might work, sorta, kinda. udderwise, i got nuthin. we sold the goats years ago. *need. more. coffee.*
LA Times story on what the fired US Attorneys are doing now.
Seems to me Pelosi’s actions as speaker in my opinion makes it believeable.
Ghoulini does the slapstick ‘bigeyes’ face an awful lot. Who is he, Jim Carrey or Charlie Callas?
-G
Matthews and Buchanan spoke of Willard’s speech as one of the finest speeches of all time. “Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom.” Seriously profound stuff!
OT, some background on Sheldon Whitehouse, bluer and more robber baron blood than the Bushes.
For real, not pretend. Makes him a class miracle. thank goodness for our side.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f…..A960948260
beautox. the new foundation for unruly complexions on the Sunday a.m. funnies.
soon they’ll be giving injections as you go in the door.
What happened to Joe Biden on ABC with Snufflelufogous. He actually is calling for Special Prosecutors. He must have escaped his K-Street handlers. Wish he would have talked like this three years ago.
Jello Jay on mtp whining, “I tried! I really, really tried” to stop this…
yeah… I believe that…
coffee’s ready – hold out your cups!
seems to me, in my opinion…
is that sorta like a dubble negative?
we. will. force. the poor techies to hustle right along with that-there toolbox, heh.
How does Whitehouse stack up compared w/ the Kennedy legacy?
Warts & all, they’re pretty impressive.
what was that weird chuckling from Jello Jay when he said he didn’t know the tapes were destroyed?
It’s just poorly stated.
I dunno, El, but he creeps me out… he’s got to go, one of these days…
1) But blackmail doesn’t work if you reveal the information publicly. That is akin to attempting to blackmail a fundamentalist Christian judge who is in the closet with being gay BY letting the information OUT. That’s horribly ineffective “blackmail”.
This is more akin to slandering someone, in the hope that their supporters turn against them. Or that their opponents, for a short time at least, can shout “hypocrite”.
2) Extraordinary rendition is very different from this program. It was originally conceived as a way to bring drug traffickers and others to trial in the US without the fuss of extradition. And it occurred a long time before Clinton. Bounty hunters performed cross-border extraordinary renditions for example. And the US Gov’t did it with the Achille Lauro hijackers in 1985, the drug-trafficante Dr. Guillermo Malvain in 1989, and Manuel Noriega. Clinton’s Executive Order actually constrained what had been occurring under some sort of Presidential fiat.
The program in this case holds the “suspect” in US custody, and never releases them into the hands of a foreign power. There is no rendition. If anything it takes the individual from the control of foreign powers and places them under US control. What the Bush Administration has done is make rendition largely irrelevant for those who really are affiliated with terrorist organizations. It takes the torture methods of those foreign powers and puts them in the hands of Americans.
Thanks for the coffee, OC, spoon straight up?
ohmygoodness Howie Annis the K once again excuses Imus’s anti semitism so he can stay in the clubhouse. Howie doesn’t mind anti semitic slurs because he knows The Iman was “just kdding.”
yeah it’s always justa joke. Howard Annis Kurtz, gooper trophy husband is justa joke.
I’m trying to view Rudy’s answers as a freeper would. I still don’t think he’s doing well. Anyone else?
if you take cream and sugar, you might want to make it Cream and Sugar… yummy!
Message to Jello Jay: Your secrecy oath is trumped by your oath of office, the one that says you’ll support the constitution.
Ain’t bide-in known as a master of the art of spewing self-glorifi-pontification with “perfect” mis-timing, thus avoiding blame as well as responsibility for progress?
shorter: too little too late, but talks a good story… as in:
‘twarnt me ma. i woulda done it right.
From here-on-out, the submit comment button should be labeled “The Bridge of Sighs Button” – abandon all hope, all who enter here…..
Selise, thanks for the youtubie and why am I not surprised that our communal sleuth did the posting.
Hits over 1300.
still nothing in print found by googling.
For the teetotallers, down a shot of “Old Grandad” every time the name Bush is mentioned. Your purity will most likely remain intact.
Glad to see you there, OC. How do you feel about the ballot issue? A prof. of political science of my acquaintance asked me to thank you and your friends for killing it.
so thanks from Prof. X of Brandeis University.
Whitehouse is more Jackie than JFK. He is a distant descendant of Western Railroad money.
Father a career diplomat like Kerry’s. Mother was a director of a healing center.
Rudi Giuliani talking to some fat guy on Meet The Press: “Our relationship was public. There were threats.”
Yes, especially from Donna Hanover with a frying pan.
not atall really. i just need more coffee, & my own “Preview”.
apologies. friends? ;->
Here Here!
Thanks, BSRH – I’m thinking that the initiative is close to its last breath… they are all out of money, as far as I can tell – so, its almost done. I’m still watching for petitioners but I’m starting to forget taking the voice recorder and camera with me when I go to buy my laundry detergent…
I think they are toast on this one.
Good bye for today. Lots of work before a certain sports event that has the BlueState transfixed occurs at 4:15 EST.
thanks. interesting.
I was thinking the same thing. “Through the foyer we enter the (extremely and permanently) well lit quarters with variable temperature control…we pipe in music (at 100 dB) throughout the day, by the way”.
“Here is the interrogation room, where the individuals face is bathed whenever they appear to be overly stressed. You’ll notice that we don’t have any instruments or devices to break bones, or cut, or burn. We don’t torture. Oh, and all interrogations are supervised by a doctor, who will awaken the detainee if they fall asleep due to our boring questions.”
“Here is the exercise room where detainees
are forciblystretch, can run, and obtain a good workout.”“And here is the laundry room where we wash
the vomit, feces and blood from internal bleeding fromthe prisoners clothes.”Thanks but no apology necessary, it was poorly stated.
it does if you only reveal the tip of the iceberg to let your target know you mean business.
that was not what clinton’s program was. i beg with you, please everyone read jane mayer’s article in the new yorker. or at least read this bit i posted this morning at emptywheel. clinton’s program was about kidnapping people and then taking them to egypt to be tortured and/or executed.
oh the images!?! loonytoonz!
The only bad thingie is that this crazistuff seems to drive the fringe to hucksterbeezlebubba.
As a much wiser person expressed it better above-thread – what. a. lineup. of candydates!
Unbelievagable!
you are most welcome. now that i know how, i am happy to make up youtubes of house or senate speeches of interest to you.
The Democratic Leadership Is Complicit in Torture
more Pach!
Musharrafrooms sincere attempt to uphold the constitution of Pakistan, just like cheney!
Selise did you hear the callers’ tone when calling into C-Span’s Washington Journal on Monday December 5th. The question posed by the moderator was US/Iran What’s Next?. Note how much the mod squirmed. The hearbeat of America…W/J? Should post this one on youtube!
http://www.c-span.org/homepage…..iveDays=30
Me:
Selise:
PLEASE read what I wrote in context. Contrary to what you have been saying, and Mayer’s article in the New Yorker Rendition has been going on for a long time. We did it with the Achille Lauro terrorists, with Noriega, and with drug traffickers during the Reagan and Bush era.
I suspect that Extraordinary Rendition also preceded Clinton’s term as well…certainly the US forces would turn over suspected VC to the ARVN intelligence services who would have no qualms about torturing them. During the invasion of Kuwait Iraqi prisoners were eventually held by Kuwait. During WWII troops who served with the Germans in occupied areas (French, Belgian, Danish, Eastern European) were given over to the countries that were liberated. Their fate was not pleasant.
I will not defend what occurred in the Clinton Era with rendition, but the ORDER certainly didn’t authorize the return of individuals to be tortured and killed. In fact it had restraints against that occurring. The receiving state had to certify that they would place the individual on trial and wouldn’t torture them. Of course, whether such promises are treated as just a piece of paper by the states in question is a huge loophole. [And BTW It’s pretty clear from the testimony of those involved in the attacks on the US Embassies in East Africa that the plans for those attacks were well under way by the time of these renditions…the renditions were not the cause of the attacks].
My point was what is going on here isn’t “Extraordinary Rendition” to a third country. It’s just the opposite. It’s RENDITION to US TERRITORY (or areas that are under US control) and the interrogation and torture is by Americans.
if you’ll give me a start and end time (from the c-span video) i’ll make you up a youtube. but please don’t use the old c-span archives. use the new one (which, of course, is down at the moment).
then please give me the references to show that clinton’s program did not start with him.
because the people accused of the achille laura hijacking (except for Abu Abbas) were tried in italian courts. noriega was tried in a usa court and is imprisoned here. none of the people you list were taken to egypt for torture and/or executions – as was done by clinton.
i certainly may be wrong, but your examples do not show that. reading mayer’s article it does sound like this was a new program – whether or not similar (or worse things have been done previously)
… and it gets worse. you say:
from jane mayer’s article:
and if anyone was claiming ignorance as to what happened to the people we sent to egypt – they were lying after Talaat Fouad Qassem disappeared (and was presumed executed) and then what happened to the suspects kidnapped in albania:
Its not clear to me that the orthodox church regards Lutherans as Christian let alone Mormons.