http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12…..ref=slogin

I now live near Clearwater and know quite a few Scientologists. I’ll take the Mormons any day. So would all the ex-Scientologists I know.

Mitt: All religions share a common dislike for those who are different.

bwahaha!

As for their beliefs: yep, they’re a bit weird, especially the stuff about being descendants of Jews who fled to the Americas. Probably not any more so than most other conservative types (I have a hard time with any church that thinks that the ‘Song of Solomon’ is an allegory), and some of them are getting out there into the fringe while still being thought of as ‘respectable’. They’re mostly nice people.

(I will give them credit for records preservation, though. If you do genealogy, you have to.)

It was in my devout Presbyterian mother’s words; decadent. Windows only on the first 2 floors and marble cut thin enough to let light in on the rest. They actually had a wedding chapel with coffin stands so they could marry the dead to each other. EVERYTHING was gold plated. I have NEVER seen such plush seating! At the time they made the Scientologists look like panhandlers. They also explained that a lot of their religion was based on the rantings of a child with a 105+ fever that later died.

The church leaders found out that non-Mormons (the tours) had seen the inside of their castle and gutted the inside and rebuilt it. It turns out only the most senior members were supposed to ever get past the entrance.

The impression I got was no matter what they believed, the Mormons didn’t have any problems with spending money on themselves.

I group them with the Scientology.

http://ap.google.com/article/A…..AD8TC2LFO0

I begin with a hard criticism of Mitt’s speech, but in the end I have an epiphany.

America faces a new generation of challenges. Radical violent Islam seeks to destroy us.

And, as demonstrated by the Bush Adminisration, radical, violent neoconservatism — actually a religion — seeks to destroy other innocents. And has. And as history has demonstrated repeatedly, radical, violent Christianity has destroyed untold millions.

There are some who may feel that religion is not a matter to be seriously considered in the context of the weighty threats that face us. If so, they are at odds with the nation’s founders, for they, when our nation faced its greatest peril, sought the blessings of the Creator. And further, they discovered the essential connection between the survival of a free land and the protection of religious freedom. In John Adams’ words: “We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. … Our Constitution,” he said, “was made for a moral and religious people.”

Yo, Mitt — you left some stuff out — John Adams also said…

http://www.aynrand.org/…

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”

From a letter to Charles Cushing (October 19, 1756):
“Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, ‘this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.’”

From a letter to Thomas Jefferson:
“I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved — the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!”

Additional quotes from John Adams:
“Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?”

“The Doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.”

“…Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.”

The founders were for the most part DEISTS who spoke of a “creator” as at most a distant architect and nothing more. This creator is not relevant in the realm of government and the recognition of individual rights.

http://www.deism.com/…

Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.

Obviously, this is high-falutin’-sounding complete bullshit. Religion and freedom do not require one another in the least. And it appears that you recognize this because you are unable to explain what you mean.

…intent on establishing a new religion in America — the religion of secularism.

Gee, Mitt, what’s this “religion of secularism?” Since science is secular, is science therefore a “denomination” of this “religion?”

Our greatness would not long endure without judges who respect the foundation of faith upon which our constitution rests.

Whoa — I could have sworn the Constitution was nased on REASON. What “foundation of faith” is in or implied by the Constitution, Mitt?

Mitt blanks out.

We do not insist on a single strain of religion — rather, we welcome our nation’s symphony of faith.

As along as we’re part of a “religion.” Right Mitt? Atheists, agnostics and secular humanists need not apply (although earlier you said secularism was a religion so I’m a little confused here).

So, Mitt you’d include: (choir humming The Battle Hymn of the Republic in the background)

The Branch Davidians

The Manson Family

Al Qaeda

Heaven’s Gate

The Symbionese Liberation Army

The Tony Alamoists

Environmentalists (Environmentalism has been called a religion by the Right)

The Westboro Baptist Church of Fred Phelps

The Freudians

The Rama Computer Cult

The Church of Scientology

The Secularists (hey, this was from you, Mitt)

The Order of the Solar Temple

The Unification Church

Ho No Nana

The People’s Temple

The Cult of Mithras

Alcoholics Anonymous (hey, they have a “Higher Power”)

The Cult of Quetzalcoatl

The Cult of the Jaguar

The Green Dragon Temple

The Nation of Islam

Rastafarians

Norse Cult of Ingvi-freyr

The Chinese Communist Party (communism has been referred to as a religion many times)

Gnostics

Zoroastrians

and

….the Wiccans.

I have tears streaming down my face as I realize Mitt really DOES want to include everyone after all.

(camera pans above Mitt, fade to Stars and Stripes waving in the breeze as the choir finishes….”his truth goes marching on…”)

I’m sorry, let’s use a shorter URL.

Use < for [ and use > for ] and get rid of the spaces below:

[a href=”

http://firedoglake.com

“]

firedoglake

[/a]

Speaking as a convinced atheist I believe most people would agree the UK makes a fair fist at providing democratic government, at the latest since the mid 20th century. Not perfect but not too bad.

But our Head of State is also Head of the Church of England (not Scotland but that’s too complicated….). Thus England at least is at least nominally a faith based state. It didn’t matter too much till God-bothering Blair came along and look where that got us.