Oh, well written! Excellent analogy to what’s going on!

Well done!

Shrub on Eyeran

“I am right. You don’t see weapons do you.”

They’ll be back, that’s the sad part.
jo6pac

Isn’t this already being spun as “See? We were right to attack Iraq. Our firm hand stopped them from making a bomb then…”?

Junior Evil is on the air, right now, making the case that just because Iran isn’t working on a bomb doesn’t mean they couldn’t start. So we should bomb the shit out of them now just in case.

So does Norman Podhoretz qualify for the “denial” category, or is he off the scale on account of being just as batshit crazy as he was before this news?

“How can we call the Democrats Chamberlains if there’s no Nazi Germany?!” they’re wondering.

The whole problem with the NeoCON analysis has always been that the “enemy” is THEM! It never occurred to them that the evil they were ever on the look-out for could be in their own hearts.

It’s a classic case of projection, the psychological defense of seeing in others what is really inside yourself.

It really makes them look like such boobies! Too stupid to see what’s right inside themselves.

Is it juat me, or is Bush being more incoherent than usual?

Whatever stage of denial the president is in, one thing’s for sure – He’s FUCKING NUTS!

Hey folks, we’ve got a little impromptu experiment here: Two threads at once!

Those who wanna talk NIE can do it here, whereas those who wanna talk about Tom Coburn can do it in the previous thread. Have fun!

Yup.

Is it juat me, or is Bush being more incoherent than usual?
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I’m seeing an affectation to the effect of – “ask me anything ya want. I really just don’t care anymore. Bring it on.”

As for incoherent – I’ve seen him worse.

Still bitching about Iran’s “lack of transparency”. “They could start another program and hide it, ya know.”

Obviously there has been a sea-change in this matter. I am not sure what happened, but there is a profound change.

It appears to the final collapse of overt Cheneyism. Bush is crowing about negotiations and working with the world community.

Perhaps some of the pow-wows with the Middle Eastern potentates opened up more than a few eyes.

-G

On the one hand, I’d like to call the guy nuts. But on the other, to say that is to excuse his behavior. So, he may be using denial, but I do not think the man qualifies for a “pass” due to mental illness.

He is a willful liar. I used the idea recently of Bush as a Cartoon character, kind of like an image of “Superman” that he wants to project. Yes, he’s living in a fantasy world, wanting to confirm his fantasy of the “big important guy,” the “leader,” the “powerful one.” And that, I think, is why any information to the contrary only makes him more cartoonish… not like kid’s cartoons… but like superhero cartoons. For him, I think, any battle only fuels the fantasy more. He will never learn. But he’s not crazy. The man should not be handed a “pass.”

Junior Evil is on the air, right now, making the case that just because Iran isn’t working on a bomb doesn’t mean they couldn’t start. So we should bomb the shit out of them now just in case.

A-yep. And the Likud/Kadima wing of the PNAC Platoon’s been wheeled out to say “We don’t care what the IAEA and all of the US’ umpteen intelligence agencies say! We KNOW Iran has The Bomb and will use it!”

Is it just me, or is Bush being more incoherent than usual?

Truly, it’s not just you. I can’t watch any more of this, plus have to leave- TiVoing in case GWB drops his dentures while I’m away @ work.

Read you all later.

Well, I was on the Malawi thread and was told there’s a new thread and came here. I never did get the Coburn thread. I wonder what happened.

Mr L, from the kitchen, where he has Junior Evil on the radio:

“Our President is a lying sack of sh*t. A dangerous man.”

Now, have I got this right? No evidence of weapons, and WE released the NIE, on purpose, so the American people would know that there were no weapons, because we threatened to bomb them, so now we need to bomb them?

It’s too freaking early to be cleaning brains off the keyboard.

Brett Baer from Fox News breaks out his velvet-covered hand-job gloves for his loving interlude with The Decider.

-G

Bush still blowing off the NIE, and fantasizing that Iran could be “hiding” a nuclear weapons program.

“Still gotta do the ‘hard work’ (jesus h. christ) of poking sticks in Iran’s eye.”

Shrub said it’s all Imadinnerjacket’s fault and things were better before he rolled into town

that’s how I feel about Shrub

You’re right, and my use of the term “He’s nuts!” is not to excuse him or misunderestimate him. To paraphrase Hannah Arendt, the Anality of Evil…

Now, have I got this right? No evidence of weapons, and WE released the NIE, on purpose, so the American people would know that there were no weapons, because we threatened to bomb them, so now we need to bomb them?

Thank you for the clarification

He never heard about the raped Saudi woman. . .he totally faked on that one. He is beyond pathetic.

Does anyone really believe this lying sack of shit?

Everything W says is a lie.

If it’s republican, it’s a lie.

Bank on it

Good writeup but I think you forgot the Supplemental Wingnut stage of grief: “It’s Clinton’s fault”

Still bitching about Iran’s “lack of transparency”. “They could start another program and hide it, ya know.”

Hell, even commercial-grade satellite proggies such as Google Earth can pick up that sort of activity. And the stuff the DOD has makes Google Earth look pitiful. They can see stuff as if they were a World War I pilot hovering fifty feet off the ground — you CAN’T hide a nuclear-weapons installation, even an underground one, from sky-eyes that good.

Good writeup but I think you forgot the Supplemental Wingnut stage of grief: “It’s Clinton’s fault.”

True dat.

Uhhh….Jonah: The “bar” for bombing Iran was moved, most effectively, by the United States military, who currently have a full plate in Iraq, as they get on with their assigned duty of trying to cover george bush and the republican party’s asses long enough for them to get out of Dodge and pass the flaming turd-baton to the democrats, for THEIR lap around “Mission Accomplished!” stadium.

Good writeup but I think you forgot the Supplemental Wingnut stage of grief: “It’s Clinton’s the Clenis’s fault”

Fixed it for you.

It’s right here!

BlueTex: Shorter GOP…STILL!:

“Bill Clinton’s dick! Bill Clinton’s dick!”

Sometimes I almost wish the Dems would say to Bush: “Hey, you’re right! Things are going just swell! In fact, they’re going so swell that we don’t need troops there any more, right?”

The CIA basically told Cheney to STFU and sit down. Has Junior even read the NIE?

Iran is rumored to be developing a nuclear program in Bill Clinton’s penis.

-G

Helen Thomas has her hand up – any bets on w/n Georgie calls on her?

Bush complaining about Iran’s “lack of tranparency” is a hoot. What with secret prisons, extraordinary rendition, man-sized safes in the Veep’s office, the classification of EVERYTHING, the refusal to talk/testify about anything, signing statements, night-time arrival of war dead and wounded, accountability to no one about anything, his complaint is very much like the schoolyard bully complaining that some other kid got away with stealing lunch money.

Hypocrisy, thy name is Bush.

Oooh, PW, add that to my wish list.

Somebody with the nads to stand up and say that to him. Of course, I’d be subjected to watching him sputter incoherently, but that’s the norm for Junior Evil anyway.

You guys see EW on this stuff? She’s digging into the details again – she thinks maybe Cheney had this info, and was keeping it from Dim Son so they could get their war on.

Yes, the problem with bush and his ilk is that it drives us nuts!

And in some ways, I think that is exactly what they want. They are trying to fool as many as possible. And to twist the brains of anyone who tries to think and respond logically into pretzels.

I’ve thought a lot about this. It’s insidious. And hard to tackle. The only thing is, hopefully, to kick them out of any place of power. Prevent them from acting. The propaganda machine will obviously continue. But they must be prevented from playing with the lever of power.

Or we’re sunk.

Junior doesn’t read or care. OK I lied, he reads what they put in front of him. He’s a bot. He’s a brat. He’s a boob.

IF George W. Bush can’t deal with Helen Thomas, how can we expect him to deal with Al Qaeda.

-G

Hypocrisy, thy name is Bush.

I loved it when Preznit Fighter Jock told Musharraf to take off his military uniform. Hilarious.

Bush “they keep passing bills they know I’m gonna veto. What the hell is wrong with these people?”

Thanks! I was really wondering why I didn’t know til I got to your thread and saw the reference. New site new mysteries.

Noodle Nuts is getting hot and bothered.

Has there ever been a more despicable man in this nation?

-G

Has Junior even read the NIE?

Pictures are included now I understand

Hmm, hmm, hmm. Random thoughts… They’ve known since 2003 that Iran halted its nuclear weapons program in 2003. How did they know? Valerie Plame was publicly betrayed on July 14, 2003. Wasn’t her job something to do with tracking nuclear weapons in Iran?

Why should Bush care what he says when he is speaking to the nation on television? His administration has an almost unbroken record of success in doing what they please…and what they please is almost completely to the detriment of America. They lie, they start at least one illegal war, they build permanent bases in Iraq…and they get called out on nothing. OOOh – left blogistan calls them hypocrites, liars, and dumbasses. Sticks and stones///

Hardly a day goes by that this administration doesn’t do something to make me think of Kim Philby and the Cambridge Five. Just when I calm down and convince myself I’m nuts to be thinking that, they do something else that is so perfectly Anti-American, it can be explained no other way.

And the dems just snipe at each other. Whose side are they on?

I *know* I should read the dark side occasionally to be able to counter them…that said, this house (isn’t it kiddo who says that?) is filled with eternal gratitude that Blue Texan and others do the nasty job so effectively. It really helps hold the cost of blood pressure meds to a minimum.

“The Surge is WORKIN’ – it’s workin’.

Somebody loan that man a “g”, please.

Ok, now he’s scaring me…

He never heard about the raped Saudi woman. . .he totally faked on that one. He is beyond pathetic.

That’s because the Saudis are all that’s keeping OPEC from abandoning the dollar standard, even though its tumble is cutting into their profits despite the price boosts.

I gave a couple of final exams yesterday, and have one more plus some make-ups to give on Thursday. Right now I have some grading to do, but, for the first time in weeks, we have our living room back. Daughter was sleeping on the couch while she had a cast on her leg, so that she wouldn’t have to go up and down the stairs to her bedroom. The cast finally came off yesterday (and there was much rejoicing).

So now I’m looking at the DVDs I recently checked out from the library, thinking I really should watch one of them before they need to go back to the library. I can’t even *begin* to count how many DVDs or videos I have checked out, only to return them, unwatched, to the library. I just, um, treat them to a little car ride. Inanimate objects enjoy that, right? ;)

Anyway, right now I’ve got “Outfoxed” and “Shut up and sing”. Both are things I’d kind of like to see. But Demetrius doesn’t like to watch anything that might make him even more angry at the right than he already is.

If anyone here has watched one of those, and highly recommends it, or at least part of it, please let me know.

“As to Iran, I hereby promise that there will no let-down in emanation of fear – we’re gonna keep it pumpin’. “Psychology 101 ain’t workin” (wtf?)

Either all the top people in this administration are “out to lunch” and they have no info… so how can they protect us… like they say they’re doing?

Or it’s just a pack of lies – of course!

Again, the logic is missing. Logic… missing in action. And they simply expect to parrot lies and illogic. And get a “pass.”

Truly… we are in another world here. An alternate universe.

Overall, I’d say the presser was a glorious celebration of the 1% Doctrine.

Somebody loan that man a “g”, please.

Did Clinton steal those too…?

“The Surge is WORKIN’ – it’s workin’.

“Army Group Steiner will save us!”

Thing is, the insurgents are — as was predicted a year ago — simply regrouping and waiting for the surge (which cannot be sustained as we don’t have the troops for it) to end, at which point they come out of hiding.

Is anyone asking Junior good questions, or is at another WH press corps stenography party?

Did something happen to the volume on my idjit box or was he literally screaming as he closed out the presser?

If Bush thinks that it is reasonable to continue pushing for increased sanctions even without the evidence that Iran, for the last 5 years, has made no effort to make nuclear weapons….why did he lie to the American public and the Europeans, Russia and China?

“We talked about Iran and the desire to work jointly to convince the Iranian regime to give up their nuclear weapons ambitions, for the sake of peace.” ~ Pres. G. Bush, 11/7/07

“The problem is Iran, and Iran has not stepped back from trying to pursue a nuclear weapon, and — or reprocessing and enriching uranium, which would lead to a nuclear weapon.” ~White House spokeswoman Dana Perino, 10/26/07

“We’re in a position now, clearly, especially when we look at Iran, where it’s very, very important we succeed in our efforts, our national security efforts, to discourage the Iranians from enriching uranium and producing nuclear weapons.” ~ Dick Cheney, 11/9/07

“We are convinced that they are developing nuclear weapons.” ~Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman, 11/13/07

We could likely find dozens of similar statements which are clear evidence of the sheer mendacity of this Administration. The conclusions of the NIE were known within the WH and to the cabinet for months. Individual Departments would have known that their own intelligence or research showed no evidence that Iraq was seeking nuclear weapons. Yet they continued on with this bulls**t.

That is absurd for them to take this position. I guess if you are a righwing nut the thinking is this: We knew we had to invade Iraq because we knew they had WMD’s because we knew Iran was working on WMD’s so our invasion deterred Iran from WMD’s and Iraq did not have any WMD’s or Al Queda in Iraq so see we were right all along. You have to be pretty stupid to even try to put that out as a possible talking point.

See, the whole point here is – it doesn’t matter what questions are asked!

The point is to be confusing!

The whole idea is to fool some and confuse the rest!

Atlas Juggs?? Oh, you mean Pammy Mctitters. Sorry, you caught me in a bad moment. =)))

I think between what’c come out over the past few days on the NIE and the holdbacks on its release, combined with W’s statements in the press conference, pretty much put Hugh close to 300, and get me close to 70 feet.

At least we have gotten this far. AP headline reads:

Bush Claims He Wasn’t Briefed on NIE Until Last Week

So, at the very least, there is doubt expressed in that headline. He claims. Not bush only briefed last week.

So, we’re making progress here. Press not just transcribing. Actual thought going on.

Hmm, hmm, hmm. Random thoughts… They’ve known since 2003 that Iran halted its nuclear weapons program in 2003. How did they know? Valerie Plame was publicly betrayed on July 14, 2003. Wasn’t her job something to do with tracking nuclear weapons in Iran?

Well we have a couple of options here. Neither pretty.

1) Plame’s network was completely obliterated after her betrayal. That’s why the CIA and other intelligence agencies have gone “blind” and lack any further intelligence. The last smidgen of information would have had to be that the Iranians had stopped working on nuclear weapons, but they have no clear evidence since.
That would mean thaqt the leak of Plame’s identity was a security disclosure that assisted the Iranians in developing nukes…and a case equivalent to treason by Libby, Rove, and any others who ordered them to undertake the disclosure.

2) The networks were damaged but not destroyed, and the evidence is that no work has been going on since 2003.

3) The Iranians have somehow been able to identify Plame’s sources in Iran asa result of her identity being divulged. Rather than killing these sources they were able to control them and use them to transmit erroneous intelligence to the CIA. See #1 regarding the sheer stupidity that this meant for National security.

Those are words engerized with truth. They are pushing the war (if not a bigger one with Iran, then whatever terror they can find) off unto the next prez, along with the bombshell of an economy.

And the military is fighting back, along with intelligence agencies with everything they can, without being banned, taken from America by force, or Swift boated.

Did something happen to the volume on my idjit box or was he literally screaming as he closed out the presse

I don’t know about literally screaming, but he obviously got tired of tap dancing(badly) and went for a strong finish by spouting dogma.

overall impression of GWB’s interpretation of the NIE:

“It just doesn’t matter. They could still build a bomb, in the future; they’re sneaky, underhanded, evil devils who could work at night, when it’s dark ya know, bomb-buildin’ up a storm. Ya can’t trust a gummint with no transparency, everybody knows that!

They haven’t been workin’ on a bomb for four years? I don’t care – I’m still gonna kick the shit outta them for all of the things that they weren’t doing!”

“Outfoxed” is exceptional. Anything by Greenwald is well worth your time. I found it so full of info that I ended up watching it about 4 times while doing some other tasks; each time, I picked up on new info. It’s excellent.

spouting dogma.
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How about “spouting dog-mush?” Dog-excrement, more like. But, yes.

“This latest front page news story is an insult to every American or freedom loving person that has even average intelligence.

I didn’t realize anyone from that corner had reached such heights of intellence.

This all comes down to racism on the part of whites against those who are not white. Who’s to say what Iran should do with nuclear technology? Who’s to say they would be as irresponsible as, say, the U.S.? There are many such questionable assumptions behind the drive to pulverize Iran.

Someone should ask Bush

“Mr.President…is it possible that the divulging of Valerie Plame’s identity impaired our intelligence collection in Iran to the degree that Iran may actually be continuing to work on nuclear weapons, but the CIA simply can’t get the information to confirm it?”

See if he bites on THAT ONE!

Oh that press corps chuckles and titters like grade school children when The Decider breaks out his ‘Southern wit’.

A more despicable lot cannot be found.

-G

I gleened this nugget straight out of the AP article summarizing Bush’s presser:

“Taking advantage of his veto power and the largest bully pulpit in town, Bush regularly scolds Congress as a way to stay relevant and frame the debate as his presidency winds down”.

George Bush is scared shitless of Helen Thomas – pass it on.

He said you can’t trust a government without transparency? He SAID that?

I suppose the kneepadded press corps just sat their and nodded their collective heads while wiping their chins?

No offense towards anyone’s beliefs, but the fact that he said that, and there were no lighting bolts anywhere near his lying ass is just further confirmation for me that I don’t need to believe in god.

I laughed at the beady eyed little bastard this morning.
I could see him struggling for words as he tried to put the spin in gear and shine up the fear card he always has in his back pocket like a rookie Micky Mantle card to show off.
Try as he might. it was a excersize in futility, we all know the have been lying through their teeth and have cookie crumbs under their fingernails as proof.

On the one hand, I’d like to call the guy nuts. But on the other, to say that is to excuse his behavior. So, he may be using denial, but I do not think the man qualifies for a “pass” due to mental illness.

He is a willful liar. … For him, I think, any battle only fuels the fantasy more. He will never learn. But he’s not crazy. The man should not be handed a “pass.”

You nail it exactly! A willful liar, willfully ignorant. The truth is not in him.
~ Prairie

With all the fast-paced life on the blogs these days, I’ve started a little interlude space that moves a tad slower, plan to offer up some food for thought, do regular columns on Tues. and Sat. You’re all invited. Hope you’ll drop by.

Prairie Sunshine’s growing a new way station/garden at Prairie Sun Rising

Hi BT and Pups.

Hilarious? I guess. I’ve been having icky hallucinations of the 2 nekkid empurrz standin’ side-by-side ever since he said it.

I’ve just noticed this. Always hit reply before you copy your quote!

A more despicable lot cannot be found.

History will agree.

He said you can’t trust a government without transparency? He SAID that?

I may have paraphrased a bit.

The bottom line: The Oil Men are working the clock.

From Chimpy’s presser:

At a White House press conference this morning, George W. Bush was asked whether his administration’s saber rattling on Iran — undercut by a new National Intelligence Estimate that says Iran halted its nuclear weapons program in 2003 — would further damage U.S. credibility in the world.

His answer: “Actually, I am — you know, I want to compliment the intelligence community for their good work.”

Bush said there’s no risk to U.S. credibility abroad because everyone knows — or ought to — that Iran is dangerous regardless whether it has a nuclear weapons program now. He also said that the new NIE is proof that intelligence reforms enacted after the Iraq war began are working.

“People say, ‘Why is that you can’t get exact knowledge quicker?’” Bush said. “The answer is, we’re dealing with a regime that is, uh, not very transparent.”

Good writeup but I think you forgot the Supplemental Wingnut stage of grief: “It’s Clinton’s fault”

Is that the “All That Jazz” addendum?

From the presser:

Asked why he and his administration continued to escalate their rhetoric even after he got that warning, Bush said today that Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell had told him only, “‘We have some new information.’ He didn’t tell me what the information was. He did tell me it was going to take a while to analyze.”

Didn’t anybody say, “Maybe you want to back it down a little bit”? “No,” Bush said. “I’ve never — nobody ever told me that.”

OK, but now that he knows, the president is going to ratchet down the rhetoric, right? Wrong. “I have said Iran is dangerous,” Bush said. “The NIE doesn’t do anything to change my opinion.”

(Same link as my 85.)

All that’s left is for them to put on trenchcoats, turn up the collars, pull the brims down on their hats, get into little boats and blow up the 5th Fleet in the Persian Gulf themselves, leaving little notes attached to the bomblets, saying “Made in Iran”.

nobody ever told me that

That should be bush’s epitaph!

He also said that the new NIE is proof that intelligence reforms enacted after the Iraq war began are working.

So, he got the talking points that were distributed up front to wing-nuttersphere.

nobody ever told me that

That should be bush’s epitaph!

nobody ever told me that – so who could have known?

And picture it on a tombstone – the irony:

Nobody ever told me that!

Does that mean he didn’t accept a question from Helen? Sorry to ask, but I’m not in front of a TV.

George Bush is scared shitless of Helen Thomas – pass it on.

Shall I assume this means he never called on her?

See, Helen is an “insurgent.” God love her!

They don’t talk to insurgents.

Sacrecrow’s upstairs…

“The NIE doesn’t do anything to change my opinion.”

QED

At least we have gotten this far. AP headline reads:

Bush Claims He Wasn’t Briefed on NIE Until Last Week

So, at the very least, there is doubt expressed in that headline. He claims. Not bush only briefed last week.

So, we’re making progress here. Press not just transcribing. Actual thought going on.

That’s funny, because the opening grafs of The Consortium’s story by Ray McGovern on this read as follows:

With redraft after redraft, it was what the Germans call “eine schwere Geburt”—a difficult birth, ten months in gestation.

I do not know how often Vice President Dick Cheney visited CIA Headquarters during the gestation period, but I am told he voiced his displeasure as soon as he saw the first sonogram/draft very early this year, and is so displeased with what issued that he has refused to be the godfather.

This time Cheney and his neo-con colleagues were unable to abort the process. And after delivery to the press, this child is going to be very hard to explain—the more so since it is legitimate.

In other words, Cheney certainly knew, and we all know that he’s the real Decider.

George Bush is scared shitless of Helen Thomas – pass it on.

Shall I assume this means he never called on her?

Correct. He quite studiously and obviously ignored her raised hand – again.

Talk about famous last words!

Bush Claims He Wasn’t Briefed on NIE Until Last Week

Who knew what and when? House Intel committee apparently didn’t know and I haven’t heard anything from Senate Intel..someone needs to ask Jay and/or Feingold.

From The Blotter via The Muck: A Canadian judge has ruled that because of the U.S. government’s policies on torture, interrogation, detention, and refugees, Canada can no longer turn away refugees from the U.S.

Even better: AmericaBlog found this WaPo story showing that Bush was originally briefed months ago:

Hadley said Bush was first told in August or September about intelligence indicating Iran had halted its weapons program, but was advised it would take time to evaluate. Vice President Cheney, Hadley and other top officials were briefed the week before last. Intelligence officials formalized their conclusions on Tuesday and briefed Bush the next day.

So he lied. Again.

Thanks for the link. I will follow up.

I know the thread has moved on. But it begins to look more hopeful for our side… as they tie themselves more and more into knots!

I must admit I sent that info on to Firedoglake over the weekend. Wish they had followed up and scooped this. (I have a US friend, now in Canada, who sent us the news.)