I’ve got yer family values right here:
Republican Senator Tom Coburn is holding up legislation that would help prevent children from drowning in pool drain accidents.
Thirty-two children drowned and another hundred were seriously injured—by drain suction pulling out their intestines or trapping a limb—between 1985 and 2004 according to the Washington Post. John Edwards had a well-known case involving this kind of injury.
Legislation to require inexpensive raised drain covers was all set to pass when Sen. Coburn [a physician!] decided we couldn’t afford the $7 million—spread over the next five years—so he put a hold on it. Gee this is what, about 10 minutes of the cost of the mess in Iraq?
Sponsor Debbie Wasserman Schultz explains it actually *saves* money overall:
…in the long run the bill would probably save taxpayer dollars by preventing fatalities and costly injuries such as brain damage caused by near-drownings.
I’ll tell you what we can’t afford, is a Congress that won’t take care of American citizens. Demand better: Stop killing Iraqis, start saving children’s lives. Now was that so hard?
P.S. Feeling like Colombo here, just one more thing…Harry Reid, how come when a Republican puts a hold on legislation, that’s honored, while Sen. Dodd’s hold is ignored? Just askin’.
photoshop by twolf1
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hi eg!
Woohoo!
Pulling out their intestines? ! ?
Dear god. Anything to prevent that intrusive government regulation…
Bush up – now blaming (Dem) Congress for the IRS not getting refund checks in the mail quickly enough.
Promises to veto “irresponsible” budget submissions.
Bush ” Iran still trying to learn how to enrich uranium. *If* Iran develops the clandestine knowledge, big trouble to the world, It’s a warning signal. Y’all need to still be very afraid.”
A case like that is what John
Edwards got a huge settlement on and why they hate him.
My brother’s family builds swimming pools and so I must absent myself from this discussion before I get hot under the collar. Now I wouldn’t denigrate the lives of 132 people in about 20 years, but don’t we have more important topics here at FDL?
Guess the free market is willing to leave some children behind. I mean, they’re not economically productive so what does it matter.
This story has been making me angry for the last two days, does it show?
Irony alert – Bush blaming lack of intelligence on “lack of transparency” in Iranian government.
David Gregory calling Bush out on knowing about the NIE months ago – Bush denies it.
Umm, I know statistically it is not a lot, but with such an easy fix/prevention, isn’t that way too many?
sorry for the OT’s, egregious.
says 3 time that Iran is dangerous – “if they get the knowledge to build a bomb”.
“What’s to say that they couldn’t start it back up?”
Thanks for the reminder, I’ll add this to the post.
Morning Egregious. Pool drownings were frequent when I lived in Phoenix. Always a tragedy.
Does that mean you think it (this bill) would somehow hurt their business?
Bush – “NIE changes nothing – we still need to consider Iran a danger”. (blowing off the question of whether he knew long ago about the contents of the NIE).
egregious, this is egregious
so egregious, we need to digg it!
Does it also mean that the pool industry does not have the capability for simple engineering.
PS Iran is a very dangerous place. So sayeth chimpy
Bush now bringing up the specter of a “covert” military program which wants to build a bomb.
Martha Raddatz – “How will the rest of the world trust us anymore?”
Bush – Because Iran might, maybe, possibly, covertly, behind our back, in the dark, someday, somehow, build a bomb.”
Tom Coburn is such a tool. That is all.
I do recommend the chimp pressy. He is not doing at all well. On cspan
Harry Reid, how come when a Republican puts a hold on legislation, that’s honored, while Sen. Dodd’s hold is ignored?
Harry Reid is a conservative in the Democratic party.
Saving those hundred-plus kids’ lives might cost eCAHNomics’s family corporation money. Costing corporations money might reduce their profits, and that is anathema to coservatives.
And to DLC Democrats.
Therefore, honoring Coburn’s hold is a matter of principle.
But Dodd’s hold? Show me one American corporation whose bottom line would be improved if Reid honored that one. So of course, it’s out of the question.
And by the way, eCAHNomics, it’s wonderful that you’re so open about your willingness for a hundred kids to drown so that your family members may continue to profit in the manner to which they’ve becomed accustomed.
Hey folks, we’ve got a little impromptu experiment here: Two threads at once!
Those who wanna talk Coburn can do it here, whereas those who wanna talk NIE can do it at BT’s thread. Enjoy!
eCAHN, do you have proof that the bill wouldn’t actually save money as well as lives? If so, then you should speak up and share it. That’s why threads like this are here!
don’t we have more important topics here at FDL?
why doesn’t Reid honour Democratic holds? Important enough for me.
Two threads at once? How does that work? Whew! Something new to learn.
Speaking of learning new things, and with all the fast-paced life on the blogs these days, I’ve started a little interlude space that moves a tad slower, plan to offer up some food for thought, do regular columns on Tues. and Sat. You’re all invited. Hope you’ll drop by.
Prairie Sunshine’s growing a new way station/garden at Prairie Sun Rising
gee, dead kids matter here
The “Hold”, as in the concept of a single Senator able to stop legislation, is a “fiction”. The “hold” is simply a Senator saying that they will not agree to a unanimous consent. The bottom line is that Harry doesn’t have the votes to overcome a Thug “hold” or to sustain a Dem “hold”.
Kagto X talks about Dodd’s “hold” on FISA here
I so agree with you, Eg! BushCo and their minions in Congress who do their bidding like trained…well, I would say chimps, but apparently they’re smarter than a lot of humans. Or I could say dogs, but my spaniels take exception to that. So I’ll say BushCo and their Cockroaches in Congress instead. Public shaming is the least of what they should face.
And as for Harry Reid’s atti-toad…I fully expect Dodd to come at him for the Senate Leadership if Iowa doesn’t work out. Dodd narrowly lost out to Daschle back in the day. His re-entry would be welcome. Or, Senator Webb. But Reid’s gotta go. Not least because he’s such a namby-pamby lousy speaker.
Elliott – that’s ill-directed. I was responding to e CAHN omics at post 6, and messed up a block-quote.
The point I was trying to make (now partly answered by Steve AR) – how does this get held and not FISA.
WHY doesn’t Reid have the votes? Whose votes doesn’t he have, that he needs, and why?
Oh OK then. :)
No problem
I don’t understand the unanimous part of it. If one (Reublican) senator can block legislation (by not agreeing to a unanimous consent) why can’t one (Democratic) senator keep the consent from being unanimous?
Bush dogs..the names vary somewhat depending on the issue but here is a sample: Nelson, Nelson, Conrad, Bayh, Johnson, Pryor, lieberman, Lincoln, Landrieu, Baucus
for the record you are referring back to comment #26 Steve-AR. somehow wrong comment was replied to
sorry – I clicked just above the number, instead of under the text. Just learning
If there is not unanimous consent to proceed with the Bill, a motion to proceed is needed. A motion to proceed can be filibustered. Therefore if there is a Thug “hold” Harry would need >60 votes to bring the Bill to the floor. If there is a Dem “hold” Harry would need >40 to block cloture and prevent the bill coming to the floor.
BTW, I am way above my pay grade on this topic, so please correct if I don’t have it right.
Steve, I thought it was because he didn’t have the votes of AT&T, etc. – you know, his big donors who are very concerned about our Constitution, and protection – of their illegal activities?
Why Harry and the Bush dogs are pieces of crap is a different topic and more complex than the mechanics of getting legislation passed or blocked.
eCAHNomics at 6—
Whoa there, I’m not pointing any fingers at the builders. The legislation is about changing local building codes and retrofitting public pools.
I would be most interested to hear what the cost of retrofitting a backyard pool, which is where a lot of the drownings have taken place. Between the cost of the raised drain and the cost of labor I can’t imagine this would take too much out of the homeowner’s pocket. Can you help me with this?
and digg this important post, help get the word out about this
Yes, yes: despite being ‘inturkey’, and not an American I’ve got the general concept here (and the names – though Johnson’s vote is presumably problematic because of his stroke, not Bush doggere – no?)
Surprised that 40 Dems wouldn’t back a Dodd hold if Reid said he backed it. That sounds like it would have to be more than just a Lieberman problem. Or am I missing somnething.
BTW – It must make things difficult for Reid to have 4 senators on the campaign trail – and thus not necessarily available for quick votes. Haven’t seen anyone mention this – am I way off here?
eg and Snowbird – my first reaction was this is about John Edwards. I think he may have actually specialized in these cases (but I’m not sure).
eCAHN, I left you an EPUd note on the last thread.
about the spaces in your name, here’s Marion in Savannah’s solution
Tragic, pointless, preventable pool drownings that an inexpensive act of Congress could prevent… Lemme see…
No.
Tim Johnson lifetime “progressive” voting record puts him in the bottom 10-15% of Dems.
Hi egregious,
Seems that it may be a case of who pays for the retrofit, owner or manufacturer for a shoddy product. The retrofit may require underwater work which may be more costly, or if done on an empty pool or spa, a tremendous water waste imho.
Thanks. I think I can live with the run-on for now…having far too much fun flitting between here and EWs place….
OK – but he’s not actually voting on anything right now, is he? Or am I waaay out of date?
John Edwards is not the only political name associated with these horrific accidents and deaths.* Perhaps Coburn should ask James Baker about his granddaughter:
Virginia Graeme Baker, 7-year-old granddaughter of former secretary of state James Baker III drowned when trapped underwater by one of these defective drains. The Congressional bill that Coburn is blocking bears her name
Coburn is a gold-plated sadist. The fact that this poor excuse for a human being became a doctor and took care of patients should send cold chills down your spine.
*Edwards case, BTW, involved a girl who did not die but was permanently crippled by losing most of her digestive tract. The fact that she lived and requires permanent skilled medical care is one reason the award was so high. See link for more.
Um, no. We don’t. Maybe some things are more pressing, but an easy, cheap fix that can prevent even one drowning is not less important that anything we discuss here. Period.
Thank you clio.
well put, egregious! we covered the most recent case like this on http://www.tortdeform.com this is exactly the case of a simple fix being brushed over because the needs of real people are lower priority than the needs of the industry, which i guess doesn’t like this requirement for drain covers? an extra few bucks, and few lives saved, apparently costs too much. disgusting.
here’s a link to the story
I’m baaack.
Just as I was “submitting” my self-defense, my cable went down. No really, it did, I swear it did.
So here’s the issue. This swimming pool problem has no bearing on my family’s business one way or the other. My brother, who just died, started in the business in the early 1950s, and his children still run it. To my knowledge no one has ever been serioursly injured, let alone died, relating to defects in any of the pools they have built. They’re mainly commercial, so presumably they’ve had many more swimmers than you would in a home pool. Presumably they use appropriate drains.
No, my problem with this comment is two-fold. The first relates to regulation. When I discussed it in the abstract, I was careful to describe the desideratum as the most economically efficient regulation possible, given the market imperfection, and also mentioned that there are many problems with regulation. One of those problems is overregulation, which is exactly what happens in the swimming pool business. I can’t tell you how many conversations I’ve listened to about regulations & how difficult it is to figure out what they are & comply with them. I don’t have the patience for more of same.
The second problem I have with this post is that it paints lefties as the characture that the right accuses us of, micromanaging every tee-einsy little problem in the world with federal legislation. Geez. Grow up. This problem is taylor made for the tort system, and for working with trade associations to get them to purvey the information on the Best Practices section of their website and to cover it in their Best Practices seminar at their annual conventions.
I will NOT be a part of any movement that even hints of doing this. Get your priorities straight and stop making fools of yourselves.
Um, but aren’t we talking about a raised drain cover? Like, $2 of metal to keep a kid from becoming entrapped or disemboweled? That’s over-regulation? Sorry pal, you haven’t sold me yet.
If micromanagement means requiring raised drain covers that will save the lives of innocent children for a small amount of money, count me in as a micromanager.
Truth in advertising, I am one of those public health professionals who insists on looking at the larger picture to explore how we can reduce the number of unnecessary deaths and injuries to children. Probably I am one of those people who would write the regulations that so vex your brother [and I am very sorry you have just lost him..].
Unlike the Republicans, Democrats do think there is a role for government to take the overall view of what is good for society, not simply what is expedient for individual businessmen. You can tell my view was very popular at business school.
Do we have clean air, uncontaminated food, paved streets, and collective protection by police, fire departments, and the military? That is called government. It requires that each of us yield a small amount of control for the greater good.
eCAHN
As a Harvard MBA I’m all over the Best Practices thingie but they have had 20 years of children’s deaths to make this happen and they are not there yet.
And as for priorities, (1) restore constitutional government (2) stop killing people in other countries (3) take action to save lives. I think pool regulations fall under #3. ymmv
Saves a few more than 32 lives.
32 at a time, thru legislation?! You must be nuts.
On this subject you folks just don’t get how ridiculous you look to the rest of the world. Pick Pick Pick. This kind of stuff is much worse than Rs trying to pass legislation that save millions of embryos that they think are human. At least they’re working in the millions, while you are working in the tens.
At 1-1/2 per year. Yeah, that’s really high priority.
You really think the federal govt ought to be spending scarce time on a problem that causes 1-1/2 death/year? I just can’t fathom how you think that’s appropriate.
eCAHN,
Would be able to agree that this is too small for Congress, and rather should be under the aegis of the Consumer Product Safety Commission and the judiciary, except for one thing:
While the Bush/Cheney administration was busy drowning government in the bathtub, they eviscerated the CPSC and the higher levels of the judiciary as well. So there is no one left to adjudicate but the “free market.” And us.