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	<title>Comments on: Mitt Romney &#8220;Can&#8217;t Imagine&#8221; Insurance Would Deny Coverage For Breast Cancer</title>
	<atom:link href="http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/</link>
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		<title>By: wickedpissah</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/#comment-1133228</link>
		<dc:creator>wickedpissah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 01:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/#comment-1133228</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m surprised the comments here aren’t more clear on how this “pre-existing condition” stuff works. I’m not claiming to be knowledgable at all - this is just what I’ve picked up in years of dealing with multiple major medical issues with my family (all of which are extremely rare, not genetic in origin).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In a lot of states, but not all, there are SOME protections for pre-existing conditions. Those protections come with a lot of other conditions.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Very high rates of coverage are a given - you’ve already been denied health insurance, but the state is forcing someone to accept you - at a very, very expensive rate of coverage. Because you are in a “high risk” pool. For many people, this alone is prohibitive.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But it doesn’t stop there. There are 2 tiers of health coverage in the US. In the premium tier, you are covered, more or less. Some health insurers have better records than others. From there, you get to 80/20 coverage, often. That means that 80% of your bills are covered, and you owe the other 20%. Factor that over a major illness, and you are very often talking about total bankruptcy (if you could afford it, you wouldn’t have an 80/20 plan in the first place). Lose everything - instant poverty.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Aetna just lost a big lawsuit for denying someone cancer coverage (leiomyosarcoma). Like, over USD$100,000,000.00 big. Yeah, nine-figure big.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For a lot of people, this means you are bound to your job, or you can’t be an entrepeneur, business owner, or consultant without some major backing that gives you health coverage. I’m in that group. I consider myself lucky - but I’m all but an indentured servant due to the failure of the health care market in this country.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And I’m one of the lucky ones.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The fact is, providing health care to everyone is fundamentally incompatible with for-profit health insurance. They have a motive to fuck you on the deal and let you die. Period. Always. No matter what the regulations are, this is their motive and what they will try to do. So to condone this system is to say, at some level, poor people should just die because they can’t afford anything else. Try to remedy this with medicaid etc and you end up with thousands of perverse incentives and donut holes. Add this up, and you can see why, in polling, the middle class in America, which is shrinking but still substantial, favors universal health care.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Not “buy health care or we’ll fine you”. Just “pay your taxes, we’ll cover you, and beaurocrats will fight with scientists about what’s the most effective way to spend the money in a way that doesn’t give pound-of-flesh beancounters the upper hand”.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I don’t blame the candidates for being skittish about this, but it’s a major issue the US has to face in the next generation or so. Or else we lose status as an economic leader. It’s that simple.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m surprised the comments here aren’t more clear on how this “pre-existing condition” stuff works. I’m not claiming to be knowledgable at all &#8211; this is just what I’ve picked up in years of dealing with multiple major medical issues with my family (all of which are extremely rare, not genetic in origin).</p>
<p>In a lot of states, but not all, there are SOME protections for pre-existing conditions. Those protections come with a lot of other conditions.</p>
<p>Very high rates of coverage are a given &#8211; you’ve already been denied health insurance, but the state is forcing someone to accept you &#8211; at a very, very expensive rate of coverage. Because you are in a “high risk” pool. For many people, this alone is prohibitive.</p>
<p>But it doesn’t stop there. There are 2 tiers of health coverage in the US. In the premium tier, you are covered, more or less. Some health insurers have better records than others. From there, you get to 80/20 coverage, often. That means that 80% of your bills are covered, and you owe the other 20%. Factor that over a major illness, and you are very often talking about total bankruptcy (if you could afford it, you wouldn’t have an 80/20 plan in the first place). Lose everything &#8211; instant poverty.</p>
<p>Aetna just lost a big lawsuit for denying someone cancer coverage (leiomyosarcoma). Like, over USD$100,000,000.00 big. Yeah, nine-figure big.</p>
<p>For a lot of people, this means you are bound to your job, or you can’t be an entrepeneur, business owner, or consultant without some major backing that gives you health coverage. I’m in that group. I consider myself lucky &#8211; but I’m all but an indentured servant due to the failure of the health care market in this country.</p>
<p>And I’m one of the lucky ones.</p>
<p>The fact is, providing health care to everyone is fundamentally incompatible with for-profit health insurance. They have a motive to fuck you on the deal and let you die. Period. Always. No matter what the regulations are, this is their motive and what they will try to do. So to condone this system is to say, at some level, poor people should just die because they can’t afford anything else. Try to remedy this with medicaid etc and you end up with thousands of perverse incentives and donut holes. Add this up, and you can see why, in polling, the middle class in America, which is shrinking but still substantial, favors universal health care.</p>
<p>Not “buy health care or we’ll fine you”. Just “pay your taxes, we’ll cover you, and beaurocrats will fight with scientists about what’s the most effective way to spend the money in a way that doesn’t give pound-of-flesh beancounters the upper hand”.</p>
<p>I don’t blame the candidates for being skittish about this, but it’s a major issue the US has to face in the next generation or so. Or else we lose status as an economic leader. It’s that simple.</p>
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		<title>By: newtonusr</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/#comment-1133095</link>
		<dc:creator>newtonusr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/#comment-1133095</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;LS-&lt;br /&gt;
I continue my love-hate relationship with Arlen (I’m not from PA) continues, what with his push-pull ideas for his constituents.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I recently listened again to his opening statement, and his 2 examinations of AbuG at the latest SJC hearing. Brilliant lawyering, and he pounded Chimpy pretty good as well…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So he’s back to his old tricks. I think the sky will crack if he ever follows through with a threat…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Nice letter!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LS-<br />
I continue my love-hate relationship with Arlen (I’m not from PA) continues, what with his push-pull ideas for his constituents.</p>
<p>I recently listened again to his opening statement, and his 2 examinations of AbuG at the latest SJC hearing. Brilliant lawyering, and he pounded Chimpy pretty good as well…</p>
<p>So he’s back to his old tricks. I think the sky will crack if he ever follows through with a threat…</p>
<p>Nice letter!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeany</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/#comment-1133020</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/#comment-1133020</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;A study by America’s Health Insurance Plans revealed that approximately 12 percent of applicants are denied coverage because of preexisting medical conditions&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Is that the level of rejections for-profit insurers aim for in order to optimize profitability?
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;…an individual … may be eligible for guaranteed coverage under HIPAA or state-run pools.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I don’t know anything about HIPAA provisions, but TTBOMK, those state-run pools are always fully subscribed, and no one new gets in until a current subscriber leaves.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>A study by America’s Health Insurance Plans revealed that approximately 12 percent of applicants are denied coverage because of preexisting medical conditions</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Is that the level of rejections for-profit insurers aim for in order to optimize profitability?
</p>
<blockquote><p>…an individual … may be eligible for guaranteed coverage under HIPAA or state-run pools.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I don’t know anything about HIPAA provisions, but TTBOMK, those state-run pools are always fully subscribed, and no one new gets in until a current subscriber leaves.</p>
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		<title>By: TheraP</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/#comment-1132981</link>
		<dc:creator>TheraP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/#comment-1132981</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Breast cancer?  The Decider says, try the ER.  Or what about 911? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;People who have never been poor or had to struggle should not be allowed to run for public office.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Breast cancer?  The Decider says, try the ER.  Or what about 911? </p>
<p>People who have never been poor or had to struggle should not be allowed to run for public office.</p>
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		<title>By: marksb</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/#comment-1132980</link>
		<dc:creator>marksb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/#comment-1132980</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks Jane.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The other shoe is probably going to drop on insurance cancer coverage as science discovers more exact causes. Being a newly minted throat cancer survivor (that my insurance company covered with only the usual issues) I wonder how long this will last, now that Johns Hopkins has published clear evidence that non-smokers with HPV have a much greater chance to get throat cancer than people not infected with HPV. Will we start seeing HPV tests on cervical and throat cancer patients and a resultant denial of coverage for a “pre-existing condition”? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I mean, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hopkinskimmelcancercenter.org/news/index.cfm?documentid=883&amp;newstype=News%20Releases&amp;action=showthisitem&quot;&gt;check it out&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;HPV 16 was present in the tumors of 72 percent of oropharyngeal cancer patients enrolled in the study.  People with detectable antibodies in their bloodstream to molecules made by HPV were 58 times more likely to have these oral cancers, a figure that dwarfs the connection between high cholesterol and heart attacks.  The researchers also were able to find higher risk in patients with traces of HPV in oral rinses, a first step to developing a “swish-and-spit” screening method for at-risk individuals.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Where does this BS stop?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Jane.</p>
<p>The other shoe is probably going to drop on insurance cancer coverage as science discovers more exact causes. Being a newly minted throat cancer survivor (that my insurance company covered with only the usual issues) I wonder how long this will last, now that Johns Hopkins has published clear evidence that non-smokers with HPV have a much greater chance to get throat cancer than people not infected with HPV. Will we start seeing HPV tests on cervical and throat cancer patients and a resultant denial of coverage for a “pre-existing condition”? </p>
<p>I mean, <a href="http://www.hopkinskimmelcancercenter.org/news/index.cfm?documentid=883&amp;newstype=News%20Releases&amp;action=showthisitem">check it out</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>HPV 16 was present in the tumors of 72 percent of oropharyngeal cancer patients enrolled in the study.  People with detectable antibodies in their bloodstream to molecules made by HPV were 58 times more likely to have these oral cancers, a figure that dwarfs the connection between high cholesterol and heart attacks.  The researchers also were able to find higher risk in patients with traces of HPV in oral rinses, a first step to developing a “swish-and-spit” screening method for at-risk individuals.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Where does this BS stop?</p>
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		<title>By: kiddo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/#comment-1132969</link>
		<dc:creator>kiddo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/#comment-1132969</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“Be fair.” Lahoma’s always telling me to do that too. ;0)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Be fair.” Lahoma’s always telling me to do that too. ;0)</p>
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		<title>By: elee</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/#comment-1132967</link>
		<dc:creator>elee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/#comment-1132967</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I find it hard to listen to any of the junk anymore&lt;br /&gt;
it all sounds the same&lt;br /&gt;
the shows are all dumb&lt;br /&gt;
with the same agenda&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it hard to listen to any of the junk anymore<br />
it all sounds the same<br />
the shows are all dumb<br />
with the same agenda</p>
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		<title>By: kiddo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/#comment-1132966</link>
		<dc:creator>kiddo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/#comment-1132966</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In the interest of making an informed decision on who to cast my vote for in the next presidential election, I want to see a detailed essay on the Mittster’s business dealings.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the interest of making an informed decision on who to cast my vote for in the next presidential election, I want to see a detailed essay on the Mittster’s business dealings.</p>
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		<title>By: Badwater</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/#comment-1132965</link>
		<dc:creator>Badwater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:05:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Bush thingks that people want that stuff should have been smart enough to do what he did and be born wealthy.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bush thingks that people want that stuff should have been smart enough to do what he did and be born wealthy.</p>
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		<title>By: Scarecrow</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/#comment-1132963</link>
		<dc:creator>Scarecrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:58:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/mitt-romney-cant-imagine-insurance-would-deny-coverage-for-breast-cancer/#comment-1132963</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Willful aristocracy?  Willful ignorance.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No health insurance? Let them eat cake.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Willful aristocracy?  Willful ignorance.  </p>
<p>No health insurance? Let them eat cake.</p>
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