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	<title>Comments on: Turning Up The Heat or Taking The Low Road?</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/</link>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1131487</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 02:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1131487</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The Bill Moyers journal on the run-up to the Iraq War had a segment that showed Oprah viciously attacking a young woman who had dared to question the administration’s premises. Told me all I needed to know about Oprah.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m surprised to hear that. I’d guess that video might still be on pbs.org&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It would be interesting to see that here on fdl.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The Bill Moyers journal on the run-up to the Iraq War had a segment that showed Oprah viciously attacking a young woman who had dared to question the administration’s premises. Told me all I needed to know about Oprah.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I’m surprised to hear that. I’d guess that video might still be on pbs.org</p>
<p>It would be interesting to see that here on fdl.</p>
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		<title>By: Swift2001</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1131131</link>
		<dc:creator>Swift2001</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1131131</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;How anybody can regard Gore as “vapid” is beyond me. Have you been watching the news?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How anybody can regard Gore as “vapid” is beyond me. Have you been watching the news?</p>
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		<title>By: Swift2001</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1131130</link>
		<dc:creator>Swift2001</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1131130</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I am afraid I used to regard Obama as my number-two, or maybe one, pick. But he started it, guys. He started mudslinging and ganging up with the dishonest Russert and the insane Matthews, who are stuck in 1998 and the blowjob. He portrays issues like the Republicans (SS) and lies when confronted with the fact that his plan won’t cover everybody. (See Krugman.) But a lot of people on the progressive side seem to have the hatchet out for Hill.&lt;br /&gt;
My choices? Number one, Hillary. Two, Edwards. Three, Dodd. Four, Kucinich. Down around 5 or 6, Obama. He had me when he began the campaign, but he’s just another politician. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Psst&gt; He started attacking the front-runner for her strengths.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am afraid I used to regard Obama as my number-two, or maybe one, pick. But he started it, guys. He started mudslinging and ganging up with the dishonest Russert and the insane Matthews, who are stuck in 1998 and the blowjob. He portrays issues like the Republicans (SS) and lies when confronted with the fact that his plan won’t cover everybody. (See Krugman.) But a lot of people on the progressive side seem to have the hatchet out for Hill.<br />
My choices? Number one, Hillary. Two, Edwards. Three, Dodd. Four, Kucinich. Down around 5 or 6, Obama. He had me when he began the campaign, but he’s just another politician. </p>
<p>Psst&gt; He started attacking the front-runner for her strengths.</p>
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		<title>By: Jgarza</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1131035</link>
		<dc:creator>Jgarza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1131035</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Actually he is suggesting students come back to Iowa to vote.  You have a right to vote where you go to school. The real story is Hillary Clinton doesn’t think students have the right to vote where they go to school.  First she tossed immigrants under the bus to win, now students, can’t wait to see how who gets tossed under the bus in her general election.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually he is suggesting students come back to Iowa to vote.  You have a right to vote where you go to school. The real story is Hillary Clinton doesn’t think students have the right to vote where they go to school.  First she tossed immigrants under the bus to win, now students, can’t wait to see how who gets tossed under the bus in her general election.</p>
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		<title>By: leftdcin72</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1131030</link>
		<dc:creator>leftdcin72</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1131030</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Small time ambitious thinkers. Sorry I left out the descriptive term ambitious. But they are definitely small time.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Small time ambitious thinkers. Sorry I left out the descriptive term ambitious. But they are definitely small time.</p>
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		<title>By: mkolb</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1131008</link>
		<dc:creator>mkolb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1131008</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“Put her in her place”?  Why, is she some uppity woman who … words fail me.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;With all three of the top Dems, we know what kind of general election campaign will be run against them by the Republicans:  John Edwards was a trial lawyer, Barack Obama is not only black but his mother was white, and Hillary Clinton will carry the Bill Clinton years.  It’s going to be &lt;strong&gt;very&lt;/strong&gt; ugly no matter who the standard bearer is.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sen. Clinton, in this case, has the easiest race:  we already know most of the stuff from those years and I don’t think the charge of bitch or hysterical female will play very well, especially to women voters and the men who love them. The other two will have a harder time with Sen. Obama having the hardest.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But be clear, there is not a Republican on the horizon who can beat ANY of them unless Democrats shoot themselves in the foot (not unheard of).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The tricky part now is to run as if this were the General and not primaries.  Why, you ask?  Because everything is online, print and youtube, and everything can be brought up and used again and again.  This, I think, was the purpose of K Rove’s column earlier today - to try to stir things up for future use.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Some of the Democrats are being smart in this and not running to the far left, but are giving us a view of how they will govern the &lt;em&gt;whole&lt;/em&gt; country and not just the “base”.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Republicans haven’t figured this out and are running so far to the right that none of them will be able to head towards the middle after the primaries.  For instance, Gov. Huckabee will never be able to restate his stupid opinion on “creationism”.  They are running a traditional 20th century campaign and it will hurt them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Democrats have to keep their collective eye on the end goal which is to take control and actually govern.  And to that end, each needs to clarify their positions, not necessarily to explain their opponents positions.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I can’t vote in the primaries, but fully expect to vote for the Democratic nominee so I am watching all this pretty closely and there are things I like very much about each of the Democratic candidates - I don’t have a favorite, but, Deandra, Sen. Clinton’s “place” is wherever she wants it to be, as is yours, as is mine.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Put her in her place”?  Why, is she some uppity woman who … words fail me.</p>
<p>With all three of the top Dems, we know what kind of general election campaign will be run against them by the Republicans:  John Edwards was a trial lawyer, Barack Obama is not only black but his mother was white, and Hillary Clinton will carry the Bill Clinton years.  It’s going to be <strong>very</strong> ugly no matter who the standard bearer is.</p>
<p>Sen. Clinton, in this case, has the easiest race:  we already know most of the stuff from those years and I don’t think the charge of bitch or hysterical female will play very well, especially to women voters and the men who love them. The other two will have a harder time with Sen. Obama having the hardest.</p>
<p>But be clear, there is not a Republican on the horizon who can beat ANY of them unless Democrats shoot themselves in the foot (not unheard of).</p>
<p>The tricky part now is to run as if this were the General and not primaries.  Why, you ask?  Because everything is online, print and youtube, and everything can be brought up and used again and again.  This, I think, was the purpose of K Rove’s column earlier today &#8211; to try to stir things up for future use.</p>
<p>Some of the Democrats are being smart in this and not running to the far left, but are giving us a view of how they will govern the <em>whole</em> country and not just the “base”.  </p>
<p>The Republicans haven’t figured this out and are running so far to the right that none of them will be able to head towards the middle after the primaries.  For instance, Gov. Huckabee will never be able to restate his stupid opinion on “creationism”.  They are running a traditional 20th century campaign and it will hurt them.</p>
<p>The Democrats have to keep their collective eye on the end goal which is to take control and actually govern.  And to that end, each needs to clarify their positions, not necessarily to explain their opponents positions.  </p>
<p>I can’t vote in the primaries, but fully expect to vote for the Democratic nominee so I am watching all this pretty closely and there are things I like very much about each of the Democratic candidates &#8211; I don’t have a favorite, but, Deandra, Sen. Clinton’s “place” is wherever she wants it to be, as is yours, as is mine.</p>
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		<title>By: Maddy</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1130980</link>
		<dc:creator>Maddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1130980</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You are right, and they are way to the right of anything resembling a true democratic party philosophy that actually has labor, by that I mean most of us out here in sudetenland, at the core of their Ideology as they should. This may be sacrilege on my part but I will not vote for Hillary or Obama they will only take this country further down the road of corporate oligarchy, a road that would be the ruination of anything that defines America as a democracy.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are right, and they are way to the right of anything resembling a true democratic party philosophy that actually has labor, by that I mean most of us out here in sudetenland, at the core of their Ideology as they should. This may be sacrilege on my part but I will not vote for Hillary or Obama they will only take this country further down the road of corporate oligarchy, a road that would be the ruination of anything that defines America as a democracy.</p>
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		<title>By: pluege</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1130934</link>
		<dc:creator>pluege</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:50:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1130934</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;The Clintons are small time thinkers&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;no fan of the Clintons here, but this is a pattenly way off the mark comment:  Bill Clinton elected the youngest Governor in US history; a woman running for president in the US… ’small time thinking’ - come on already. The Clintons are not in anyway small time thinkers - they are quite ambitious. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What they are is inside game players, manipulators, they are NOT progressives. Their goal is to win, whatever that takes with little regard to ideology - hence the triangulation and the frequent sop to outrageous republican positions that should be anathema to progressives. They have no strong ideological underpinning, which is highly undesirable, but does not constitute “small” thinking.&lt;br /&gt;
.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>The Clintons are small time thinkers</em></p>
<p>no fan of the Clintons here, but this is a pattenly way off the mark comment:  Bill Clinton elected the youngest Governor in US history; a woman running for president in the US… ’small time thinking’ &#8211; come on already. The Clintons are not in anyway small time thinkers &#8211; they are quite ambitious. </p>
<p>What they are is inside game players, manipulators, they are NOT progressives. Their goal is to win, whatever that takes with little regard to ideology &#8211; hence the triangulation and the frequent sop to outrageous republican positions that should be anathema to progressives. They have no strong ideological underpinning, which is highly undesirable, but does not constitute “small” thinking.<br />
.</p>
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		<title>By: pluege</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1130913</link>
		<dc:creator>pluege</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:40:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1130913</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;there is a fine line for democrats to weave during the primary process:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1) making the eventual dem nominee battle-hardened for the slime blitzkrieg they’ll face against the wingnut noise machine: honing attack and response skills.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;2) not inducing permanent damage to the eventual nominee.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My take so far is that everybody has been running with kid-gloves on. A little rising temperature is necessary.&lt;br /&gt;
.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>there is a fine line for democrats to weave during the primary process:</p>
<p>1) making the eventual dem nominee battle-hardened for the slime blitzkrieg they’ll face against the wingnut noise machine: honing attack and response skills.</p>
<p>2) not inducing permanent damage to the eventual nominee.</p>
<p>My take so far is that everybody has been running with kid-gloves on. A little rising temperature is necessary.<br />
.</p>
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		<title>By: leftdcin72</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1130872</link>
		<dc:creator>leftdcin72</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/03/turning-up-the-heat-or-taking-the-low-road/#comment-1130872</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There are democrats who disapprove of Hillary, period. I am one of them and that is based upon 8 wasted years of the Clintons in the White House with appointments like Berger, Tenet, the vapid Gore and Hillary’s non event as a US Senator from my state. The Clintons are small time thinkers, whose biggest deals have been various instituional imprimateurs including gilded educational institutions and soft core careers in academics and politics. It is more important to Hillary to be elected than to serve. And her biggest test in politics, Rick Lazio? Come on folks.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are democrats who disapprove of Hillary, period. I am one of them and that is based upon 8 wasted years of the Clintons in the White House with appointments like Berger, Tenet, the vapid Gore and Hillary’s non event as a US Senator from my state. The Clintons are small time thinkers, whose biggest deals have been various instituional imprimateurs including gilded educational institutions and soft core careers in academics and politics. It is more important to Hillary to be elected than to serve. And her biggest test in politics, Rick Lazio? Come on folks.</p>
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