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	<title>Comments on: Obama Hits Clinton On Kyl-Lieberman, Ahead In Iowa Poll</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/</link>
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		<title>By: joann4</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1130453</link>
		<dc:creator>joann4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1130453</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Great site format, Jane! I’m noticing slippage here among Obama support. I too was willing to give this man open minded scrutiny. But he turns out to be the great hope of Republicans. He slips and slides and has no problem twisting his fiction. He’s not a progressive at all, and would make any deal to win at any cost. It’s good to see this play out now, before actual votes are cast. Hillary has my support, but even Edwards should win over Obama.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great site format, Jane! I’m noticing slippage here among Obama support. I too was willing to give this man open minded scrutiny. But he turns out to be the great hope of Republicans. He slips and slides and has no problem twisting his fiction. He’s not a progressive at all, and would make any deal to win at any cost. It’s good to see this play out now, before actual votes are cast. Hillary has my support, but even Edwards should win over Obama.</p>
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		<title>By: maialee</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1130418</link>
		<dc:creator>maialee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1130418</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I used to visit Firedoglake almost daily, but I don’t anymore because you have to be really pro-Hillary to enjoy it now.  What’s up with that?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to visit Firedoglake almost daily, but I don’t anymore because you have to be really pro-Hillary to enjoy it now.  What’s up with that?</p>
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		<title>By: PillBilly</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1130371</link>
		<dc:creator>PillBilly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1130371</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It’s hard to consider Obama a serious “Democratic” candidate, when remembering how he (Spring ‘06) worked against Russ Feingold’s rather moderate censure resolution against President Bush for not getting court orders for domestic wiretaps. His support of Lieberman for Senate last year is particularly odorous. He only e-mailed his support for Lamont, about a week before the election, and after Lieberman was showing a double-digit lead in the polls. Thanks, pal! For a really good analysis of Obama’s chameleon-like political skill, check out David Sirota’s June 8 ‘06 article “Mr. Obama goes to Washington” at The Nation.com. It was written a year and a half ago.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s hard to consider Obama a serious “Democratic” candidate, when remembering how he (Spring ‘06) worked against Russ Feingold’s rather moderate censure resolution against President Bush for not getting court orders for domestic wiretaps. His support of Lieberman for Senate last year is particularly odorous. He only e-mailed his support for Lamont, about a week before the election, and after Lieberman was showing a double-digit lead in the polls. Thanks, pal! For a really good analysis of Obama’s chameleon-like political skill, check out David Sirota’s June 8 ‘06 article “Mr. Obama goes to Washington” at The Nation.com. It was written a year and a half ago.</p>
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		<title>By: JonB</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1130318</link>
		<dc:creator>JonB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1130318</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Is there a pattern of Obama missing controversial votes or votes that could cause some political discomfit later? It should be easy to check his State Senate record.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It does take a certain level of political chutzpah to attack someone else on a vote that you yourself didn’t make.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But the deciding factor will come down to the simple fact that the country is in such a mess that the people will not take a chance on someone with such a thin resume of experience at the national level coupled with his lack of any significant executive experience.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there a pattern of Obama missing controversial votes or votes that could cause some political discomfit later? It should be easy to check his State Senate record.</p>
<p>It does take a certain level of political chutzpah to attack someone else on a vote that you yourself didn’t make.   </p>
<p>But the deciding factor will come down to the simple fact that the country is in such a mess that the people will not take a chance on someone with such a thin resume of experience at the national level coupled with his lack of any significant executive experience.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1130084</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 05:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1130084</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Dear Blub; sucking up to Lieberman and FauxNews and Rupert Murdoch, and vowing to do rehab on Colin Powell, is NOT seeking the “middle road”.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s giving prostate-gland tongue massages to the bastards who’ve created the worst foreign-policy fuckup in our history. (With Clinton’s unapologetic help…)
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I just don’t understand why any Dem would want their president to cozy up to &lt;b&gt;any&lt;/b&gt; Repub, whether Colin Powell or otherwise.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Why does Obama repeat Right-wing talking points? Does he really believe the things they do?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I want a Democrat from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I want a nominee who will pledge to give us all health care and to end the steady stream of dead American soldiers coming back from Iraq.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama doesn’t offer full medical coverage.&lt;br /&gt;
Hillary says we should ‘plan for the next war’ and labels part of the Iranian military as a ‘terrorist organization’.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Surely their supporters can find better choices in Edwards, Dodd, Biden or Richardson.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p>Dear Blub; sucking up to Lieberman and FauxNews and Rupert Murdoch, and vowing to do rehab on Colin Powell, is NOT seeking the “middle road”.</p>
<p>It’s giving prostate-gland tongue massages to the bastards who’ve created the worst foreign-policy fuckup in our history. (With Clinton’s unapologetic help…)
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I just don’t understand why any Dem would want their president to cozy up to <b>any</b> Repub, whether Colin Powell or otherwise.</p>
<p>Why does Obama repeat Right-wing talking points? Does he really believe the things they do?</p>
<p>I want a Democrat from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.</p>
<p>I want a nominee who will pledge to give us all health care and to end the steady stream of dead American soldiers coming back from Iraq.</p>
<p>Obama doesn’t offer full medical coverage.<br />
Hillary says we should ‘plan for the next war’ and labels part of the Iranian military as a ‘terrorist organization’.</p>
<p>Surely their supporters can find better choices in Edwards, Dodd, Biden or Richardson.</p>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1130061</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 05:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1130061</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Jane, You are absolutely correct that Obama has never shown any evidence that he opposed the Kyl-Lieberman Resolution. In fact, he was one of the first Democrats to co-sponsor the broadly identical S.970 which also designated the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a “terrorist organization”. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It seems Obama found that his absence and failure to vote for the KL Resolution politically expedient for an attack. But he has never explained clearly why he supported S.970 and opposed the KL resolution. In fact, the latter had an amendment which specified that it could not, under any circumstances be construed as authorizing a military attack on Iran.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And, although he no longer serves in the Senate, John Edwards has also firmly stated many times that Iran is “the World’s Greatest State Sponsor of Terrorism” and that the Iranian military has funded, armed and trained terrorists in Syria, Lebanon and Israel. These comments were not in some veiled private slips, but in major policy speeches to groups like A*P*C and the Herzliya Institute, also attended by high ranking Bush Administration officials. These statements would undercut Edward’s ability to speak out against any “preemptive” strike by Bush as he has essentially stated that he would take “nothing off the table” to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011299.php&quot;&gt;http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011299.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane, You are absolutely correct that Obama has never shown any evidence that he opposed the Kyl-Lieberman Resolution. In fact, he was one of the first Democrats to co-sponsor the broadly identical S.970 which also designated the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a “terrorist organization”. </p>
<p>It seems Obama found that his absence and failure to vote for the KL Resolution politically expedient for an attack. But he has never explained clearly why he supported S.970 and opposed the KL resolution. In fact, the latter had an amendment which specified that it could not, under any circumstances be construed as authorizing a military attack on Iran.</p>
<p>And, although he no longer serves in the Senate, John Edwards has also firmly stated many times that Iran is “the World’s Greatest State Sponsor of Terrorism” and that the Iranian military has funded, armed and trained terrorists in Syria, Lebanon and Israel. These comments were not in some veiled private slips, but in major policy speeches to groups like A*P*C and the Herzliya Institute, also attended by high ranking Bush Administration officials. These statements would undercut Edward’s ability to speak out against any “preemptive” strike by Bush as he has essentially stated that he would take “nothing off the table” to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011299.php">http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011299.php</a></p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1129934</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 04:04:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1129934</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Except that there’s a bit of historical revisionism happening here. One, Reid announced the scheduled vote mere hours before it was held, the day after canceling it the night before and claiming it would not come up again that week. That’s why McCain, who would have been very happy to vote for such an amendment, missed it as well.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama’s campaign issued a “NO” statement within hours of the vote (see Politico for Sept 26), on the 26th. The idea that issuing a “NO” statement on a resolution that more Democrats voted for than against is somehow putting a finger into the air to choose the prevailing wind is cynical in the extreme, and is very disappointing for someone like Jane. It’s hard to think of Jane as uninformed, so I suspect some partisan black ops here. It’s simply not an honest take if you review the media from Sept 25-26.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;you obviously don’t know us very well here… so i’ll cut you some slack.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;reid did not announce the vote an hour in advance -  that was the UC request for the vote - and reid announced the amendment at the start of the day when he gave his morning schedule briefing as he almost always does.. and it’s clear from reading the congressional record and watching the video from the previous day that everyone knew the vote was coming up as soon as possible the next morning - since one of the amendments was his (and he had to get to the debate too).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;please give me a link for your assertion that reid claimed the amendment “would not come up again that week” - because that’s just the opposite of what happened.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;here are my links : &lt;a href=&quot;http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/27/barack-obama-and-the-kyl-lieberman-flim-flam/#comment-1119080&quot;&gt;one&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/27/barack-obama-and-the-kyl-lieberman-flim-flam/#comment-1119303&quot;&gt;two&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i think someone is feeding you misinformation - and personally i’d like to know who your source is. are you willing to share?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Except that there’s a bit of historical revisionism happening here. One, Reid announced the scheduled vote mere hours before it was held, the day after canceling it the night before and claiming it would not come up again that week. That’s why McCain, who would have been very happy to vote for such an amendment, missed it as well.</p>
<p>Obama’s campaign issued a “NO” statement within hours of the vote (see Politico for Sept 26), on the 26th. The idea that issuing a “NO” statement on a resolution that more Democrats voted for than against is somehow putting a finger into the air to choose the prevailing wind is cynical in the extreme, and is very disappointing for someone like Jane. It’s hard to think of Jane as uninformed, so I suspect some partisan black ops here. It’s simply not an honest take if you review the media from Sept 25-26.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>you obviously don’t know us very well here… so i’ll cut you some slack.</p>
<p>reid did not announce the vote an hour in advance &#8211;  that was the UC request for the vote &#8211; and reid announced the amendment at the start of the day when he gave his morning schedule briefing as he almost always does.. and it’s clear from reading the congressional record and watching the video from the previous day that everyone knew the vote was coming up as soon as possible the next morning &#8211; since one of the amendments was his (and he had to get to the debate too).</p>
<p>please give me a link for your assertion that reid claimed the amendment “would not come up again that week” &#8211; because that’s just the opposite of what happened.</p>
<p>here are my links : <a href="http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/27/barack-obama-and-the-kyl-lieberman-flim-flam/#comment-1119080">one</a>, <a href="http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/27/barack-obama-and-the-kyl-lieberman-flim-flam/#comment-1119303">two</a></p>
<p>i think someone is feeding you misinformation &#8211; and personally i’d like to know who your source is. are you willing to share?</p>
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		<title>By: goldberry</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1129921</link>
		<dc:creator>goldberry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 03:57:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1129921</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Joe gave Clinton and Obama a wedgie.  It was a no-win vote: a yes means you’re tough on state-sponsored terrorism but guarantees that the base will loathe you for what they mistakenly believe is a permission slip to launch war on Iran.  A No vote means you’re a wimp who is being pussy shipped by the frickin’ muslims and you’re pacifist base who will not come to grips with the reality of post 9-11 America.&lt;br /&gt;
She took the bait, overestimating our intelligence.  Obama punted.  (Please, spare me the georgraphy lesson.  Every other candidate got their asses back to DC on time)&lt;br /&gt;
I swear, this resolution was engineered by Rove as a going away present.  The resolution, a toothless, sense-of-the-senate “opinion” has no effect on Cheney’s plans. He is on record as saying he doesn’t think he or Bush need permission to go to war with anybody they damn please.  The whole point was NOT to use the resolution as an excuse to nuke Tehran (because it wouldn’t do that anyway).&lt;br /&gt;
It was to put the Democratic base off their food wrt Clinton, eho just as predictably failed to remember Clinton’s co-sponsorship of a measure in February that specifically forbids the administration from attacking Iran without Congressional approval.&lt;br /&gt;
But, wtf, let’s jump on her case and let Obama have a pass.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe gave Clinton and Obama a wedgie.  It was a no-win vote: a yes means you’re tough on state-sponsored terrorism but guarantees that the base will loathe you for what they mistakenly believe is a permission slip to launch war on Iran.  A No vote means you’re a wimp who is being pussy shipped by the frickin’ muslims and you’re pacifist base who will not come to grips with the reality of post 9-11 America.<br />
She took the bait, overestimating our intelligence.  Obama punted.  (Please, spare me the georgraphy lesson.  Every other candidate got their asses back to DC on time)<br />
I swear, this resolution was engineered by Rove as a going away present.  The resolution, a toothless, sense-of-the-senate “opinion” has no effect on Cheney’s plans. He is on record as saying he doesn’t think he or Bush need permission to go to war with anybody they damn please.  The whole point was NOT to use the resolution as an excuse to nuke Tehran (because it wouldn’t do that anyway).<br />
It was to put the Democratic base off their food wrt Clinton, eho just as predictably failed to remember Clinton’s co-sponsorship of a measure in February that specifically forbids the administration from attacking Iran without Congressional approval.<br />
But, wtf, let’s jump on her case and let Obama have a pass.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1129911</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 03:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1129911</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Google “kyl lieberman sept 25″. You’ll find several articles to indicate that not only was the vote scheduled for Tuesday, not Wednesday, but Obama showed up to vote for it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If he was supposedly avoiding the vote for political reasons, why would he show up the first time?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The partisan spin on this doesn’t hold water. And without water, there’s no coming clean, bloggies.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;when did obama leave dc for nh? (at what time on wednesday?)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Google “kyl lieberman sept 25″. You’ll find several articles to indicate that not only was the vote scheduled for Tuesday, not Wednesday, but Obama showed up to vote for it.</p>
<p>If he was supposedly avoiding the vote for political reasons, why would he show up the first time?</p>
<p>The partisan spin on this doesn’t hold water. And without water, there’s no coming clean, bloggies.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>when did obama leave dc for nh? (at what time on wednesday?)</p>
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		<title>By: skeeters</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1129883</link>
		<dc:creator>skeeters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 03:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/02/obama-hits-clinton-on-kyl-lieberman-ahead-in-iowa-poll/#comment-1129883</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Funny.  You have no evidence that Obama was in favor oh Kyl&lt;br /&gt;
-Lieberman.  But you still feel free to say he is putting his finger in the wind.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Is every issue covered on his web site.  Didn’t think so.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So we can just make up any charge and throw it and hope it sticks.  Got it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny.  You have no evidence that Obama was in favor oh Kyl<br />
-Lieberman.  But you still feel free to say he is putting his finger in the wind.</p>
<p>Is every issue covered on his web site.  Didn’t think so.</p>
<p>So we can just make up any charge and throw it and hope it sticks.  Got it.</p>
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