Looks like satan-worshipping liberals aren’t the only people who liked real people asking questions of the candidates — of BOTH parties. According to MediaBistro:
| Debate | Network | Total Viewers | A25-54 |
|---|---|---|---|
| Nov. 28 GOP | CNN | 4,292,000 | 1,409,000 |
| Nov. 15 Dems | CNN | 3,919,000 | 1,077,000 |
| Sept. 5 GOP | FNC | 3,141,000 | 854,000 |
| Aug. 19 Dems | ABC | 2,799,000 | 1,046,000 |
| June 3 Dems | CNN | 2,714,000 | 1,050,000 |
| July 23 Dems | CNN | 2,552,000 | 831,000 |
| May 15 GOP | FNC | 2,445,000 | 664,000 |
| Oct. 30 Dems | MSNBC | 2,399,000 | 738,000 |
| Oct. 21 GOP | FNC | 2,367,000 | 697,000 |
| Sept. 9 Dems | Univision | 2,194,000 | 1,166,000 |
| April 26 Dems | MSNBC | 2,164,000 | 736,000 |
| Aug. 5 GOP | ABC | 2,106,000 | 709,000 |
| June 5 GOP | CNN | 1,974,000 | 689,000 |
| May 3 GOP | MSNBC | 1,705,000 | 523,000 |
| Sept. 26 Dems | MSNBC | 1,449,000 | 539,000 |
| Oct. 9 GOP* | MSNBC | 1,081,000 | 342,000 |
| Oct. 9 GOP* | CNBC | 1,014,000 | 223,000 |
| Aug. 7 Dems | MSNBC | 893,000 | 297,000 |
CNN’s YouTube debates were a huge success, there’s no other way to spin it. One of the only other things that comes close to it in the 25-54 age range is…wait for it…the Univision debate.
But of course, as Rahm Emanuel has told us, we should ignore Hispanics because he’s got 25% in his district and “they don’t vote.”
Oh well, ignore Rahm. He’s got immigrants on a hunger strike in front of his office he should be dealing with.
Meanwhile, the sound you hear is the pop of wingnut heads exploding. With ratings numbers like that, nobody is going to give a shit about their stupid little temper tantrum.
(h/t scarce)
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zed?
Zed?
Now, the next step is to let the Internet be the judge of which Qs to ask instead of CNN producers. Holdin’ mah breath.
Hiya Jane…
Sorry to go OT so soon, but couldn’t resist this one:
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004808.php
Biodun @ 4
Hi Biodun!
Do we miss Christy yet?
Good Morning, JH
In addition to what you said above, maybe the viewer numbers are and will keep rising as we get closer and closer. To the noms, elections and, oh yes, the truth.
Rahm link not working
Jane @ 6:
Yes, yes. But we have you and Blue Texan!
A key factor here is removing the debates from partisan private (and increasingly public) TV. As I noted before here, perhaps we can get the League of Women Voters to do one debate is a special PBS show (perhaps Moyers could offer his slot). Regular TV wants only to showcase their “news” casters and sponsor interests.
Hmmm. I don’t think the numbers point to an approval of the format so much as they suggest that, as the primaries get closer, more people are paying attention to the debates. That’s a pretty natural phenomenon, I think. The only outliers are FNC (lower than expected for the trend) and Univision (higher than expected for the trend).
Richmond @ 10
Second that. Always liked the LWV debates. PBS has been compromised by W, so let’s keep them out for the time being.
Q: Is it time for the perennial wingnut “War on Christmas” yet?
eCAHNomics @ 3
We could hold online votes. Have everybody watch all the submissions and then vote for their faves. It would be a great way to pick questions that americans really want answered.
However, I think comapigns should stop trying to hijack the process by having their own people submit questions to the other side as happened in the recent PGOP debate. Hillary ending up looking like a cheater.
Jane Hamsher @ 6
hell yes! hope she has a wonderful and relaxing vacation.
not that i don’t love everyone else too. but with trex gone this week…. :(
eCAHNomics @ 5
How is this NOT a crime?
Jane Hamsher @ 6
Of course we miss Christy, but we have a supremely able bunch here at FDL so we will all hike up our shorts to “do out bit.”
My favorite moment of the GOP debate was Huckabee’s saying eliminate the IRS and institute the “Fair” tax. Even CNN in the post debate analysis couldn’t let that slide.
All those “traditional” presidential debates are scheduled for 2008, as I read/heard/saw somewhere…
I don’t know why said it or where I read it, but it is sooooo true: The internet changes everything.
looseheadprop @ 14
How about some actual debates, rather than glorified beauty pageant press conferences. Y’know, have a topic (ideally not announced in advance), and everyone has to get up and speak/rebut at length on it?
Naahh.hh…hh….
after we eliminate the IRS can we send their agents to iraq to tax those ungrateful zealots who insist on drinking tea when a bud lite would do just as well?
Well, governer Huckabee?
There. Found it.
http://www.mediabistro.com/tvn….._71922.asp
Hi Jane. :)
looseheadprop @ 14
How could this be organized? There are thousands of submissions. Could lefty & righty blogs coordinate to get their readers to partition them, cull the best to reduce the numbers, repartition them, etc., until a final set is presented that is small enough for everyone to evaluate? How many viewers do you suppose we could involve in such a process?
Goulee 69/11(potus) Larry Craig (vpotus) now thats a winning ticket.
Sad, but don’t these power hunger fool remember their past?
How about some actual debates, rather than glorified beauty pageant press conferences. Y’know, have a topic (ideally not announced in advance), and everyone has to get up and speak/rebut at length on it?
or we could just have ‘evening wear’ competition!
BobbyG @ 21
I like that very much. Would allow (force) candidates to go beyond soundbites & get an in-depth discussion going. Yes, I like that very much.
Re: the wingnuttery about Dems asking questions of Republican candidates–I didn’t realize there was a rule that said only R’s can ask questions of Rs, and only D’s can ask questions of D’s.
Chris Dodd submitted a question for the ReThugs–and it was a good one. Not used, but, hey, he tried.
Now, CNN’s choice of questions? Ah, therein lies another issue entirely. Snowmen? Guy with rifle? Sheesh. In the R debate, why have so many questions on the same issue?
(((((((Jane!)))))))
governer romney is resplendent this evening in armani.
and governer huckabee is thanking oshkosh b’gosh for his overall ‘dungarees.’
mayor guiliani has chosen Shi*kh ‘ultra sensitives’ for his garment of choice.
eCAHNomics @ 24
It does seem to be a daunting task. Maybe someone should find out who the poor interns were at CNN and ask them how they did it.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 26
I came up with a GREAT idea for the democrats;
have a round table luncheon with the candidates, there would be food served or a buffet, there would be drinks if they wanted a drink.
camera to circle so there is no head of the table, journalists could be scattered in there too
every once in a while the camera would pass a portrait of kennedy…the whole camelot and the round table thing
and watch them discuss issues among with each other’s ideas in a real conversation, a conversation among men and women
I think I would LOVE watching this
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 30
Will there be a tightie whitey part of the beauty contest?
I came up with a GREAT idea for the democrats;
have a round table luncheon with the candidates
camera to circle so there is no head of the table, journalists could be scattered in there too
every once in a while the camera would pass a portrait of kennedy…the whole camelot and the round table thing
and watch them discuss issues among with each other’s ideas in a real conversation, a conversation among men and women
I think I would LOVE watching this
perris
i remember you said this once before. it’s a great idea.
eCAHNomics @ 5
In the world of law-respecting grownups in which we used to live, a judge would examine the contents and decide whether they were relevant. Is this such a difficult concept? Perhaps I’m wrong; maybe someone with a legal background could comment?
Wingnuts in an uproar because according to the NYT:
Wingnuts shown to be wingnuts, and it was live on CNN? Those belly laughs really hurt.
I’m so happy that Wingnuttia all have their panties in a twist. The blubbering, the snot-laden, quivering upper lips. Trying so hard not to cry.
Poor Wingnuts, no whine before its time.
only tighty whites allowed!
eCAHNomics @ 33
That’s the swimsuit division, I think. Obama would win.
“debates” between eight candidates is a joke- can’t be done- you get about five scattered minutes from each. The free debate thing is great for politics- but at some point you have to weed out the also rans and let the main contenders have at it.
“Some bloggers slammed CNN for seeming to reduce Republicans to guns, gays, the Bible, and oh yeah, the Confederate flag.“
it is unfair. they forgot chuck norris films.
Richmond @ 10
I love this idea, but of course, it would be seen as ‘liberal’ and PBS has been less that “fair & balanced” lately so I have my doubts about their objectivity.
The Repugs would think Bill Moyers was planted by the Dems, anyway.
Can’t we get a panel of say 2 conservative and 2 liberal college professors at a large campus somewhere to ask the questions and have the questions be gathered from the students? Stop having these debates conducted by the media, they’ve had their chance.
Each candidate should be given 5 uninterrupted minutes (that’s a long time) to state his or her case. Spell out their specific plans for each major issue: healthcare, education, economy, war, human rights, and foreign policy… with no rebuttal from the other candidates. Then they get asked questions. That way they at least start out having equal time.
One more rule: No one needs to hear them say, “I’d like to thank the blah, blah campus for having us here…” just get to the point, you only have 5 minutes. Make ‘em count! And when their time is up. Their time is up.
rwcole @ 39
I have asked before but still don’t know. Who decides what candidates will appear? Does the MSM get to choose what candidates we get to see? Mike has disappeared. What if nobody drops out – will they continue to appear or will just be cut out?
Toby Wollin @ 20
Until net neutrality ends and sites are banned, or rather made not available.
I have asked before but still don’t know. Who decides what candidates will appear? Does the MSM get to choose what candidates we get to see? Mike has disappeared. What if nobody drops out – will they continue to appear or will just be cut out?
when somebody fell out of favour with stalin and ‘disappeared’ from view (literally) he would be ’scrubbed’ from official photographs.
an entire dept. was dedicated to this ‘pre photoshop.’
Yes CNN we are all:
“AMERICAN INSURGENTS”
Be afraid; be very afraid.
eCAHNomics @ 27
Thanks. Look, it’s not rocket science to figure out and winnow just what the major national issues are that ought be discussed by presidential contenders. This dopey “creative” random selection of topics for buckets of sound-bite responses is not helpful. It’s just tiresome. Real extemporaneous debates (w/out notes) might better reveal who has his/her shit truly together.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Latinos don’t vote much in races with Rahm Emmanuel in them. Who are they going to vote for: Emmanuel, who considers them a political liability, or the Republican opponent, who hates their guts?
But Latin American immigrants who have legal status are responding to GOP hatred by becoming citizens and registering to vote. California is the future: Bob Dornan, ultra-conservative immigrant-hater from Orange County, lost his seat to a woman named Sanchez, and while that is my favorite example, it’s far from unique; Latinos are already a major force in California politics, and their influence is rising everywhere.
But Rahm Emmanuel evidently would prefer that Latinos be politically neutral and sit elections out, than to become as reliable a part of the Democratic coalition as African-Americans.
Now, this is totally OT, but, I’m sitting here reading FDL and checking out job sites, looking for a job, yeah. And, I found this one:
PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY SECURITY SECTOR TRANSFORMATION
Can someone explain this to me? Why is an American Firm helping Our State Department with this?
I’m just a blond in LA looking for a secretary job, so I don’t know these things, but it seems pecular to me.
And, notice the Huge Salary?
Jane (if you’re still here):
I was wondering whether you want to speculate about the Obama-Bloomberg power breakfast this morning in Midtown Manhattan…
Joe Buck @ 47
This is a very good point.
I’m sure it will be fair when Democrats allow themselves to do a debate on Fox News and allow a number of FReepers to submit at least seven questions. Then it will be fair.
Jane Hamsher @ 50
Rahm has R envy. Let’s give him what he wants. Let’s get him to go the way of the Rs.
Jane in the morning..just like the old days..
BobbyG @ 13
Looking at it from the street, I’d say that the War on Christmas this year will be an economic one. My guess is that is that on Dec 26 a lot of gifts will be returned for cash.
Mabel, don’t know who does it or should do it- but soon the crowd should be weeded to those who are polling at least 5%.
On-topic, I like the idea of letting the public choose the questions instead of producers. Maybe it could be done like an online poll. First we would submit questions. The questions would be categorized and probably lightly vetted to remove submissions with excessive profanity or physical threats. We would each go online to choose say our top ten questions in each category, which would be assigned points based on the ranking they were given. The questions with the most points would be asked. I know there are some security issues with this – you should only be able to vote once, and the vote must come from a real person, not a bot. The system wouldn’t have to be perfect, like in a real election though, just good enough to prevent massive skewing.
The roundtable idea’s not bad either. Let’s do both!
Both ideas remove the MSM moderators from the debate, which I think is the right course of action. They add nothing, and enforce an artificial format in which it’s tough for a candidate to get in more than a few paragraphs and a sound bite.
I also think that the interview FDL (Jane) set up with Dodd was brilliant. And, very effective. In some ways it was better than a debate (though if you had two people on the cam it could have a debate aspect too). This format gave the campaign a bit of control (they could pick which of our questions to answer). It was live, and broadly available. Possibly PBS would be interested in picking up a live web event like that if there were fewer cadidates (say 2 – i.e. after the primaries). I don’t know if there is a less red meat republican website that could co-sponsor with FDL and perhaps Huffington.
demi @ 48:
It’s called the global labor pool–globalization for short.
LibertyLee @ 51
It would be really boring, because every question would be about what Sandy Berger had in his pants; instead of, what the candidate thinks about W commuting Libby’s sentence, even though he was indicted by a Grand Jury, and stood trial in front of 12 jurors….or, what does the candidate think about Halliburton doing business with Iran during sanctions; or what does the candidate think about getting lied into an illegal war that has never been declared; or what does the candidate think about the loss of Habeas Corpus….things like that…that’s why.
LibertyLee @ 51
Thanks for admitting that Fox News is a right-wing shill station. You actually managed to be half right for a change.
In all seriousness Liberty Lee, what kinds of questions would you like to hear asked of the Dem candidates?
EDP! Nice to see you.
Biodun,
Nice salary, but I think I’ll pass on that one. *g*
Oh here’s one: Walmart’s hiring clerks for the season.
(going to the kitchen to look for a dull blade…Mods: Just Kidding.)
EvilDrPuma ,
I can see you having your own blog,I would be a regular visitor.
LS @ 61
You know…pushy false premises, false dichotomies…fair and balanced questions in the vaunted tradition of Faux News.
Oh, but Hillary gets a pass ’cause she’s so chummy with Rupert, dontcha know?
Quick question. Do these Presidential candidates (D and R) want to be President of the country, or just their respective parties?
Because I just don’t see the problem with a Democrat asking a question of a Republican candidate, and vice versa.
But I’m rather naive that way.
Bustednuckles @ 64
I don’t have that kind of energy.
egregious @ 62
Thanks. Just droppin’ by.
mc @ 66:
Yep. I don’t know what the bruhaha about the gay Brig-General and Hillary’s campaign was all about. CNN even apologized, saying they didn’t know he was connected to the campaign. Didn’t they choose his question from all the ones submitted? How are they supposed to know? Then they wouldn’t have chosen his question? Moronic.
‘morning, Jane.
The debate I would like to see goes something like this:
Pick a topic, and then have the candidates address it in detail-
Candidate A speaks for 10 minutes. Candidate B speaks for 15 minutes. Candidate A gets 5 minutes. Then we go to Candidates B&C, or change topics. Then mix them up; A&D, B&C, and so forth. This, IMO, would be the ideal format for a whole series of actual debates, as opposed to these group-grope press conferences they call debates now.
demi @ 48
Notice that they don’t mention a retirement plan.
O/T -
Otherwise known as a de facto Executive Order version of a Bill of Attainder for 2008 GOP candidates.
“lower introductory interest rates”? i.e., let’s kick this can down the road too.
CNN was running a “Quick Vote” poll in the front page for a day or so before and after the debate.
The question was “Who asks better questions of the candidates, Real People or The Media?”
People: 87%
Media: 13%
mc @ 66
If there were a problem with wingnut shills asking questions of Democrats, Tim Russert wouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a debate. However, when Dems ask questions of Republicans, they tend to make them look bad…and the echo chamber just can’t take that.
Meanwhile, the Salon website is down. Has been for some time this morning…
dakine01 @ 73
Oops, looks like some “libruls” slipped into that thar poll.
Clusterfuck promised that he wouldn’t bail out the banks who made the dumb loans as his poppa bailed out the savings and loans- now it’s smellin like a bailout…
Biodun @ 69
You noticed that Grover Norquist coincidentally got to ask a question as well, right?
RonD @ 78
You noticed that the wingnuts don’t mind that so much, too.
Biodun @ 75
Glenn’s place over there is accessible just fine.
eCAHNomics @ 24
Or we could treat them like the TPM docu dumps, folks could just surf around looked at some until they found one they wanted to vote for. Kinda like Digg
rwcole @ 77
Of course. Der Shrubbenfuhrer has a curious relationship with the truth…he refuses to be in the same building with it.
LS @ 59
Which is SOOO much more important than the Confederate flag and the literal word of the Bible. You had all the Ds asking dumb questions to elicit answers that were not on the issue. If I were a GOP candidate, I’d say Libby should get a full pardon, no one lied to get us into Iraq, it was a war of necessity and that Halliburton is fine US company producing goods and services that American fighting men need at reasonable cost given wartime conditions.
looseheadprop @ 81
That would be more efficient than my suggestion. But the advantage of mine is that it guarantees that every video would be seen by someone. Otherwise it is possible that a real gem could get overlooked.
BobbyG @ 72
I don’t think they’re going to be able to kick it down the road very far. Everyone who bought a house they couldn’t afford is still going to be stuck with a house they can’t afford. And no one in their right mind is going to buy a house right now, because (1) prices look like they’re going to keep falling and (2) Ben keeps “hinting” about more rate cuts. So if you sit tight, you can probably get the same house for less money and a better mortgage rate.
EvilDrPuma @ 60
No, Brit Hume is the fairest and most balanced anchor on TV today.
Biodun @ 75
I didn’t notice anything. I was at Glenn’s site just a few minuites ago.
What is it about Bush’s and banks—they just can’t keep themselves from givin banks OUR money to cover for THEIR stupidity.
And Hillary goes after the evangelicals and the HIV/AIDS constituency, a twofer…
LibertyLee @ 83
In other words, you’d lie and spout propaganda.
rwcole @ 77
Of course he’ll bail out the banks. It’s a “win-win.” Keep subbie voters gratefully treading water a while longer (say, through Nov 2008) and — naturally — there will be lots more fees to be had for re-shuffling the deck. I worked in subprime (VISA/MC issuer). Execs had a saying (as they derisively laughed at our customers): “The best things in life are FEE!”
EvilDrPuma @ 65
The number one question I have of all the candidates, Dem and Republican is what would they do to keep the Nation safe from Islamo-Fascism?
Biodun @ 75
hmmmmm…a friend in SF reads Salon religiously and routinely sends me Salon links each morning. Today is the first time I recall their website being down this long.
OT….Pots and Kettles?
reuters
rwcole @ 89
Cardinal rule of financial institutions:
“The firm made money and the broker made money. Two outa three ain’t bad.”
- Michael Lewis
rwcole @ 89
Naturally. You didn’t think they’d offer their OWN money, did you?
If a poor guy fucks up- he can’t get out of his credit card debt even with bankruptcy. When the banks fuck up—Uncle Clusterfuck opens the checkbook.
Anyone see somethin wrong with this approach?
Steve-AR @ 93
Atheism was responsible for the Crusades and the Inquisition?
Re: Salon website:
Thanks all. If I got to salon.com, page cannot be displayed. But if I go to salon.com/index.html then I get in. Weird.
rwcole @ 95
I smell a rat. It squints toward corporatism.
Steve-AR @ 93
Atheist here. I’ll put my humaneness and commitment to justice up against his any day of the week. STFU, you parasite.
LibertyLee @ 86
707
Pope Benny will blame atheism for the Stalin killings- as if atheism gave birth to Stalinism rather than the other way around.
Pope Benny ain’t no fuckin scientist.
BobbyG @ 99
Trust me, you don’t have to be an atheist to be ashamed of this.
I don’t know what corporatism is- but it stinks like govt. that’s bought and paid for.
Just the truth, please, unbalanced by B.S.
That’s all I ask, please.
BobbyG @ 99
My one-liner is that religion has killed more people than it has saved. Gotta luv those religious wars.
LibertyLee @ 86
Funny.
rwcole @ 55
see your point but how does one ‘gain traction?’
is there in fact any longer the possibility of ‘coming out of nowhere?
of course as Neil Young says, ‘everybody knows this is nowhere…’
I love Liberty Lee’s snark!!!
707
Atheism is also responsible for the Iraq war and global war on terror.
LibertyLee @ 83
Right, and that is why thanks to the Rethugs we are now a debtor nation. Good going ya’all.
Mabel
Well they need ta have some time ta come out of nowhere I guess- like Clinton did- but that time should not be unlimited.
Richmond @ 10
I want to second the nomination of the LWV, which has a good history and reputation in this area.
And I’m always on board for anything Moyers does!
Bob in HI
LS @ 109
He may just be better at this than Colbert.
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) – Pope Benedict, in an encyclical released on Friday, said atheism was responsible for some of the “greatest forms of cruelty and violations of justice” in history.
(snip)
up to 9 million women tortured, murdered, imprisoned by the catholic church during the middle ages.
go figure.
it was the athiests all along.
EvilDrPuma @ 98
The CEOs of Citibank and Merrill Lynch just both got kicked to the curb after driving their companies into the earnings toilet via their bad subprime bets. Kicked to the curb each carrying between $100 million and $200 million
parting giftsseverance packages.BobbyG @ 116
I wish I could get payed megabucks to be completely incompetent and ethically bankrupt.
Frank Probst @ 71
ouch!
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 116
Opus Dei is just another way of spelling Ignorant Propagandist.
oh jeeze – it’s get’s even better. latest email from redstate (just arrived):
and from the link:
EvilDrPuma @ 112
Maybe it is Colbert!!
mc @ 66
I don’t have a problem with voters of the opposite party asking questions. I object to members of the campign (paid or volunteer) pretending to be just plain voters and putting in a question.
It make a total mockery of the cncept
demi @ 48
Try reading the Positions Available ads in the Economist sometime. Interesting. Speaking of which, I got a really interesting one in my inbox the other day looking for a sr. engineer to work on “advanced UAV concepts” (Unmanned Aerial Vehicle). Serious pay too. One can only imagine what delightful surveillance technology that might be and how it would be misused. I don’t have a copy here or I’d post it.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 116
For fuck’s sake, possibly people have free will. God doesn’t punish the many because of the few. Do any of these people read the damn book with the red words.
LS @ 121
Colbert sockpuppeting in our little neck of the blogosphere? What a flattering notion!
demi @ 48
Nice thing about that job listing is they don’t take any taxes out of your pay. Sweet.
eCAHNomics @ 105
He gets if right at one point:
SteveInNC @ 123
was it FDL or where? I can’t recall.
the French have an aerial taser almost ready to go. looks like a flying saucer.
Biodun @ 75
I got directly to Glenn Greenwald’s blog OK
Bob in HI
Selise
I’d love for the Rs to do a do-over. It would show, for all to see, just how craven then are. Remember that we’re always trying to figure out a way for the MSM media to pick up on that. Then tie that to the class in fiction writing where you were advised to “show, not tell.”
Steve-AR @ 126
What I find unjust is peeps like Popey living in palatial opulence on the backs of the poor.
eCAHNomics @ 130
agreed!
tbsa @ 123
Ah!! For the good old days whe he was “forced” to join the Hitler Jungen.
eCAHNomics @ 130
gov. romney you may rebut:
“thank you tim. I’ve brought an illegal here tonight to demonstrate just how easy it would be to taser him and stuff him in a truck headed for the border.”
Speaking of religious intolerance, I just heard on the news that there are now mobs in Sudan calling for the execution of the school teacher who named the teddy bear Mohammad.
ccmask @ 125
another “you’re an independent contractor” deal.
Yeah, the poor who paid for the settlements of the abuser priests.
eCAHNomics @ 134
True and the X-tians here are working toward the same goal. “Say bad things about the Jeebus; get the needle”
BobbyG @ 132
And, supporting the priests under them (Cardinal Law for example) who promoted child abuse by those in the church.
eCAHNomics @ 135
mobs of the pious.
Steve-AR @ 137
Hey, I cuddle up with my jeebuz teddy bear every night.
Richmond
I got there first. Great minds.
“thank you tim. I’ve brought an illegal here tonight to demonstrate just how easy it would be to taser him and stuff him in a truck headed for the border.”
Mabel…
But, wouldn’t he do the taser and then put him in a cage on the roof of his car?
(sorry, couldn’t help myself.)
We’re probably going to know within weeks who the respective candidates are for the general election- and we’re gonna have to stare at em for months before the nominating conventions officially kick of the election season.
Whoever gets elected- we’re gonna be sick of em before they take the oath of office.
What this person is really guilty of is “conspicuous stupidity in a public place.”
But, wouldn’t he do the taser and then put him in a cage on the roof of his car?
(sorry, couldn’t help myself.)
demi
heh. you’re a ‘natural’ for a transportation authority!!! :-)
The “Northern Alliance Radio Network” (NARN for short), a group of local and nationally-syndicated right-wing radio hosts and bloggers, had been waiting for the GOP’s YouTube debate with bated breath.
The morning after, most of the NARN were talking about the debate viewing party the night before.
Oddly enough, none of the actual hosts have blogged about who won the straw poll (Mitch Berg claims he left before the results were announced)
Well, here they are: Ron Paul, at 48%
No wonder they aren’t talking.
Results are from their buddies at http://northernalliancewannabe…..enty.html.* If you want to avoid giving clicks to a righty blog, check out The UpTake’s video report: http://theuptake.org/?p=395.
As the UpTake video shows, the popularity of Ron Paul among Republicans – and the fear this inspires in the GOP brass – is astounding. Not even waving around the President Hillary scare object could herd the Paulistas away from urging their guy to a third-party run. The righty blogger noticed this too, but tried to console himself and his readers by essentially saying “well, these liberal Paulistas aren’t really Republicans anyway, so they’ll siphon more from the Dems than us”. Oh, really? As David Neiwert has noted repeatedly, RP’s hardcore support comes not just from the right wing, but from the ultra-right-wing, as in the Stormfront crowd. This has been the case for years now.
Steve-AR @ 139
I missed that. Who said it? Got a story link?
So Liberty Lee is actually a funny man? Cool!
I thought he was one o’them whudduyacallit, “trolls”. Good snark just goes right over my head sometimes.
RonD @ 145
i saw her photo. she looked jolly and cheerful and probably dedicated to doing good for suffering children.
but yes. you are correct.
RonD @ 144
Aha, a R, or the British equivalent thereof.
The Paulists seem VERY well organized–see em already here in socal.
Steve-AR @ 95
Agreed, they are still pikers compared to the Catholic church.
I heard it on the 1pm EDT NPR news summary.
Wonder what would happen to a teacher in Alabama who named a per skunk “Jesus”?
rwcole @ 151
I’m sure their slogan is “any wingnut is better than a Dem” – they must be way over the edge.
Many of the goopers in the west have a libertarian bent- Paul may get a lot of votes in the mountain states.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 116
Not to mention the genocides that took place in this hemisphere in its efforts to Christianize the New World.
The surge is workin- Bush was right on stem cell research!!!The economy is great and americans have never been so free.
Nice ta be a gooper- lots of happy talk.
rwcole @ 155
By their stripes ye shall know them!
looseheadprop @ 14
Well the wingnuts have found that there were pro-Edwards (the labor activist who asked about Chinese toys) and pro-Obama folks as well. There was a former intern with Jane Harmon. There was Grover on the Republican side, and a couple of Republican Party Officials got through as well.
I don’t think that CNN should only allow undecided voters (which is an issue on the honor system anyways), and only Republicans to ask questions at a debate. These debates are for the American PEOPLE…they aren’t the domain of some private club, or at least they shouldn’t be.
I personally thought the question asked by the General was legitimate, and wasn’t particularly one that would torpedo any of the candidates in terms of their base. They all got to espouse their anti-gay views. It only hurts them with the larger electorate. And we SHOULD know about such issues. If one had undecided Republicans asking question it would likely sound like those questions from “Stars and Bars” or “Do You Believe In THIS!”
The Generals question was 1000% more relevant than the baseball question, or pearls or diamonds?
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 141
The Neocon radio jock Savage is calling for the deaths of Moslems most every day and his show is still on. Both sides are at fault!
Re: Liberty Lee:
Is his/her gender clear? Christy would know for sure. They’ve exchanged emails… But Christy’s on a well-deserved vacation.
eCAHNomics @ 152
I don’t believe anyone anywhere should ever be punished in any way for free speech or thought, but to make her stand in Sudan on this issue…I don’t think was wise. Hope she is released safely, and soon.
an “R”? I don’t understand.
LibertyLee @ 92
LL,
What are you so afraid of?
Are you this afraid when you get in a car? You’re far more likely to be killed in a car accident.
Were you this afraid when you were growing up and the Soviets had missiles pointed at us? The Soviets during the Cold War were far more intent and capable of killing us.
Why are you so fearful of people with no technology and no means of really harming our way of life?
Do you not believe the Constitution and our history offer the mechanisms to overcome even the most vile aspects of our beliefs (such as slavery)?
Are you so scared that our society will fall victim to the Sharia Laws just by allowing folks to worship and believe as they wish?
The Neocon radio jock Savage is calling for the deaths of Moslems most every day and his show is still on. Both sides are at fault!
the mobs AND the teddy bears?
*just joshin’*
Re: teacher in Sudan and teddy bear Mohammed and calls for her life:
This has been on cable and network news for a coupla days…
Has there been a good post here yet on Clusterfuck’s plans to bind the US to permanent bases in Iraq without congressional approval? Would love to read something good on the legality of such a scheme.
the number one question I have is what they will do to protect against Bushfascism.
rwcole @ 167
Another question is what have the Dems said about it. I haven’t seen a single word.
R=Reublican, a group conspicuous for saying stupid things in public places.
The number one question I have of all the candidates, Dem and Republican is what would they do to keep the Nation safe from Islamo-Fascism?
More cowbells!
rwcole @ 170
Bushshitfascism.
dakine01 @ 166
As Jon Stewart characterized them, dudes havin’ trouble gettin’ across the monkey bars.
Twain- me neither. Did see that Biden’s gonna impeach the clusterfucker if he bombs Iran- (Bomb bomb bomb- bomb bomb Iran) but Biden forgot what house of Congress he’s in.
Mob:
1: a large or disorderly crowd; especially one bent on riotous or destructive action
2: the lower classes of a community : masses, rabble
3: chiefly Australian : a flock, drove, or herd of animals.
I think all groups, religious or otherwise have sub-groups which are Cwazy.
I could be wrong, tho.
eCAHNomics @ 172
Whew! You scared me. I almost thought you were calling me an R.
I was going to have to take exception with that. :)
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 34
How’d you keep them from hogging the conversation? Certain amount of time, then cut their microphone?
Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date: 1921
1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
Biodun @ 164
I am a proud heterosexual male.
RonD @ 165
I heard on the radio that she let the students, 7 year olds pick and then vote on the name. She might have been busy with some other task and didn’t fully think through the ramifications. I also heard that she was sentenced to a coupla weeks, maybe 10 days, in jail and then was being deported…
Some religious people flay their skin, cut themselves, blind themselves, cut off appendages, or stick fishooks into their flesh- then there are some really crazy religious people too.
Biden said as chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee he would call for Bush’s and Cheney’s impeachment if they bomb Iran without congressional approval.
rwcole @ 182
Let Us Prey.
RonD @ 176
Sorry. My eighth grade English teacher was always criticizing me for my carelessness on antecedants. Never did get it right.
I am appalled by the British schoolteacher story….but I wonder why the children themselves didn’t know better than to name the bear after their Prophet Mohammed. Little fundies of all creeds are generally taught the fundamentals of their fundie-dom from a pretty early age.
BobbyG @ 175
If it hadn’t been for Harry Truman, Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Reagan and GHWBush, Soviet Communism might have taken over this country. However we fought a 50 year battle against Soviet and Communist Imperialism. Hopefully, we will continue George W Bush’s fight against Islamo-Fascism until we achieve victory.
It was quite flattering to the bear.
SteveInNC @ 35
Any documents on a government computer are NOT PERSONAL, or at least SHOULDN’T BE. He should know about the White House Records Act and realize that destroying government documents, including email, is a felony.
This is the guy who was in charge of ETHICS????
newspaperbrat @ 93
Joe Klein strikes again.
(kidding, kidding…)
rwcole @ 180
Someone here mentioned the other day that some Catholics in the Philippines have themselves crucified during Holy Week. Don’t recall whether it was symbolic, or to the death.
I don’t know. A debate where only Republicans asked questions of Republicans might be interesting.
How high would you build a wall between this country and Mexico to keep out the demonic evil illegal alien spawn of S*tan?
What is the best way to kill all the Islamofascists? Would you just nuke all the Moslem countries or would you send in the Marines to shoot some of them?
What three countries do you think we should invade next? And would you do this at one year intervals, every six weeks, or tomorrow?
How many prisons would you build to jail all the liberals and other traitors and Godless abortionists in the country?
How would you promote Christian values like the death penalty in this country?
OTOH maybe it wouldn’t be such a good idea.
Yep. R ethics.
Fiscal responsibility used to be a strong point with the GOP faithful. Now that the Enron administration has brought its opaque accounting methodology to all things American, our country faces an economic crisis beyond scale. The dilemma is unfolding in ways which underlie the rhetorical conundrum: do we shit or go blind?
“Chain gang” Charlie Crist (h/t dakine) has such a dilemma. His state has shut off withdrawls from the investment pool from whence local payables were made. This has frozen the flow of public monies and has created a cascading series of defaults which threatens liquidity at all levels of state government:
Florida Schools Struggle to Pay Teachers as Investments Frozen
What a disaster!
Hey… “trust us” used to work…
Lets just hope our vaunted financial experts can work a solution…
Or maybe we should declare the economy “robust” and point to the huge investments in commercial real-estate and merger activity!
[Greed & Fear] On the end of securitisation and the looming sell-off
Oops… more shoes to drop…
rwcole @ 167
I wondered the same thing..I don’t have the ref handy but “stationing of forces” doesn’t require Senate approval. The House could shut off the money, however.
LibertyLee @ 185
Please define victory.
rwcole @ 175
In Watergate, it was a SENATE Select committee that really got the ball rolling. Remember SENATOR Sam Ervin?
Bob in HI
“Yep. R ethics.”
there ya go, oxymoroning again….
My version: So many enemies, so little time. How do you prioritize?
LibertyLee @ 187
Yeah, the way they took over Afghanistan. All of them being 50 feet tall and shit. 707!!
Twain @ 197
Victory: where our side wins and the other side collapses or is no longer able to threaten us.
rwcole @ 180
I’ve seen this too. Although, I own a mid ’70’s Civics textbook that clearly states, “There are 3 economic systems:
Capitalism-means of production are privately owned.
Socialism-means of production are owned by the State.
Fascism-means of production are privately held, but controlled by the State.”
Fascism is an economic system.
As Mussolini said, “Fascism should be called corporatism, since it represents a merger of corporate and State power.”
Clusterfuck’s got them Islamofascist guys ON THE RUN. They’re in their death throes- there’s light at the end of the tunnel- we’re winnin the war on terror- the surge is workin- mission accomplished- etc.
Bullshit Central
Commies damn near took over eh? Must’ve missed that one. Where did they invade?
xanthippe @ 185
Probably 1/4 of the kids in the class are named Mohammed..why not the bear?
Blue Texan is upstairs!
There’s a Bear named Jane upstairs with a new link (oops, I lost it, but still..)
LibertyLee @ 202
But you always feel threatened, don’t you? So there is no victory for you, just endless wars.
Blue Texan’s upstairs…
Sorry, so sorry.
It’s BlueTexan and here’s the link.
rwcole @ 205
Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia (attempted Thailand); good pieces of Africa, Cuba, etc. (invasions assisted by 5th column, similar to how the Islamo-Fascists function day.)…
rwcole @ 205
They’re here, in secret cells, Comrade. Waiting to sap our Precious Vital National Fluids.
Hugh @ 193
heh. :-)
And finally:
what would you do about the liberals criticizing FREE TRADE which has obviously benefitted our people so very much. Just think, Nixon ‘opened’ China. What liberal can claim that?’
(sound of parents all over the country checking toy boxes for concealed carcinogenics labelling)
dakine01 @ 73
I hate on-line polls since they are so easily astroturfed.
Here’s another poll after the debate
John McCain 13 3.8%
Mitt Romeny 7 2%
Tom Tancredo 0
Ron Paul 254 75.14%
Rudy Giuliani 6 1.7%
Fred Thompson 4 1.2%
Mike Huckabee 51 15%
Duncan Hunter 3 0.9%
Total Votes: 338
http://forthardknox.com/2007/1…..be-debate/
rwcole @ 205
the skeletons are in the tunnels under the mexican borders……….
on a serious note:
let’s consider the film ‘13 Days’ and Kennedy’s nerve-wracking adroit handling of the Cuban missile crisis with generals braying in his ears to invade or even attack Russia
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 141
Better than this though…
http://crookedtimber.org/2007/…..ban-youth/
LibertyLee @ 212
the right-wing death squad fascist regimes of central and south america did a damned good job of stopping those commies.
thank god.
Better than this though…
http://crookedtimber.org/2007/…..ban-youth/
bill in turkey
LOL
Hugh @ 209
No, we won the Cold War; but Bill Clinton blew it by not keeping up the Armed Forces and allowing the Bin Ladens and jihadis to grow into unspeakable terrorists. The seeds of the current war starts with Clinton.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 218
Thanks to Ollie North, Admiral Pointdexter and Bill Casey and the funding of the contras.
LibertyLee @ 220
It’s cold here today. Probably Clinton’s fault as well.
Econo-fascism, part deux…
US commercial property leaders see tough ‘08 ahead
Calling all credit cards…
Eenie meenie, chilie-beanie, the spirts are about to speak!
Are they friendly spirits?
Sure they are… if you’re rich!
LibertyLee @ 220
Yeah, Clinton really blew it by trying to kill bin Laden while everyone mocked him and accused him of a “wag the dog” act and trying to distract from the Lewinsky situation.
Clinton recognized that conventional warfare, i.e., tanks and B52s and such, were basically worthless against a counter-insurgency action like bin Laden runs. It’s a lesson that Bush never learned as he has managed to break the conventional forces running an occupation after the invasion of the country that did not provide any of the hi-jackers for 9/11.
dakine01 @ 224
Time to say Don’t Feed The Troll.
dakine01 @ 73
I hate on-line polls since they are so easily astroturfed. And here’s the “official” CNN Post-Debate On-Line Poll
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/pre…..ube-debate
Ron Paul 47% Mike Huckabee 23%
And here’s another:
1. Ron Paul 60% 15325 votes
2. Rudy Giuliani 11% 2880 votes
3. John McCain 11% 2780 votes
4. Mitt Romney 9% 2380 votes
5. Mike Huckabee 4% 1008 votes
6. Tom Tancredo 2% 393 votes
7. Sam Brownback 1% 251 votes
8. Duncan Hunter 1% 226 votes
9. Jim Gilmore 0% 102 votes
10. Tommy Thompson 0% 100 votes
[Note the last four weren’t even participating in the debate. And according to this poll Huckabee did barely better than those who didn’t even say a word ;-) ]
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6f8_1196398724
Now does anyone really believe that Ron Paul won that debate???
dakine01 @ 224
We know Saddam had WMDs he hid in Syria. They were just as much a threat as bin Laden’s folks. The success of the surge (even acknowledged by Murtha) shows that we can successfully fight conventional and insurgent tactics.
RonD @ 165
She didn’t “make a stand” — she was a teacher in a classroom and she asked HER STUDENTS to come up with a name for the teddy bear. THE STUDENTS chose the name “Mohammed.”
While the teacher can be considered to be the instigator, don’t the students ‘bear’ a share of the guilt?
LibertyLee @ 227
Don’t forget the ones he hid under your bed. Better check the closet too.
Steve-AR @ 94
Notice he didn’t say most…just some. Which means the majority of those acts of cruelty and violations of justice were committed by God Fearin’ believers.
eCAHNomics @ 107
But you have to kill ‘em to save ‘em. That’s what they did to confessed witches who repented.
cinnamonape @ 231
looseheadprop @ 123
Well I agree that he should not have done this. But he asserts that he didn’t actually speak with anyone in the campaign.
http://www.dallasnews.com/shar…..e9493.html
And he really is pretty innocuous in such a large campaign, in suspect…the LGBT committee is pretty immense.
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/…..w/?id=2196
Ironically CNN stated that they checked the Federal Financial Disclosure records and found that he hadn’t donated to a campaign. Apparently the vetted by whether people donated to candidates. That would take out a vast number of politically active Americans, even those that have no relationship with a campaign.
And why do I suspect that Grover Norquist and several others (the Republican County Officials) have given money and supported some of these candidates.
LibertyLee @ 212
Invasions? Cambodia granted…the Communist Vietnamese invaded to stop the genocides of the Communist Khmer Rouge. But most of those others weren’t invasions. Cuba wasn’t INVADED…it was a Civil War, ditto those African states, and Vietnam and Korea were also civil wars at their inception. Vietnam had no “invasion” to expel the French…yet another civil war.
Your claim that these were invasions is tantamount to saying the American Revolution was an “invasion”.
Here’s what I’m talking about…
As Lenders Tighten Flow of Credit, Growth at Risk
Gee, a hundred billion a month? Kinda makes the war seem cheap!
But our president said…
What’s an American mother to do?
Where’s the punchbowl when we need it”
The Kool-Aid just ain’t flowing like it used to…
Uh, oh. This isn’t good…
So what exactly is a recession?
Any questions? Any answers? Any guesses? Any hope?
RonD @ 146
Actually her Islamic students named the bear. If she is guilty of anything it is being “publicly conspicuous in a stupid place”
Steve-AR @ 196
It would certainly go beyond the 2001 AUMF, but so does the use of troops in sectarian conflict. Judging from the wording of the AUMF we should have started withdrawing once we had defeated Sadaam and the Army.
Next Debates NPR ,Des Moines Reg.: Energy Indepedence,Immigration,Freedom from Oil/Neocon Lobby’s and http://laptop.org/ for all
The Debates the next weeks at a) NPR and b) Des Moines Register are very important to focus on real issues: Health care,immigration, energy independence and new jobs,Constitutional Rule Of Law in our daily lives and getting the USA Taxpayers out of the Contractors-Oil Iraq War which is going to bankrupt the country, let’s hope the neocon controlled NPR does not do another CNN-Klein insulting absurdity,waisting everybody’s time with private bedroom preference issues over and over again,shame !
here are some issues were we need truth and clarity from the next president of the USA :
in the W.Post,November,28,07 : “Kurdish Ministers woo U.S.oil firms” we learn that the Oil lobby in DC ( with Lobby firm Barbour,Griffiths and Rogers) is using Richard Perle and Scooter Libby to make deals with Kurdish politicians against Baghdad Central Gov. plans to keep all deals constitutional and all profits evenly divided among all Iraqis, why do the White House let this bunch of neocon gangsters do their own side deals and wreck the work of the US Military and the Iraq Parliament by distabilazing the Iraq Oil Laws ? who are the real insurgents here ? what kind of racket are they setting up in Iraq? who will pay for the corruption later ? the USA Taxpayers ?
next month in Paris,let’s hope Sec.Rice really pushes the israelis and palestinians to make a permanent deal,already is clear that the usual orthodox israeli community and the extreme palestinians dont want to give up one inch,and the israeli orthodox are demanding another 10 billion dollars from the USA to continue to block any deals,while palestinians are going to burn another 500 million or more without showing work intentions,the Europeans and Russia must insist that Saudi Arabia pays the ticket,they made hundreds of billions in oil over -prizes due to the paranoia and tensions,so they must be on the down side too ! Palestine needs jobs and a harbor/airport as well as peace from its young militia,and Israel must stop building luxury homes on arab land with USA money and using USA weapons to kill palestinians that complain, enough from these two !!!
Africa ,Asia and Latin America need education and internet, if the White House has any links to the real world, the President would suggest to Sec.Rice,Gutierrez,Gates and Spellings to launch a massive distribution plan of
http://laptop.org/ all over the world, to really show Americas face : Love and Trade,Commerce,Education,
Peace and Growth, but knowing that Joshua Bolten and his neocons run the White House with Rahm Emanuel,Schumer,Feinstein ,Lieberman ,Bloomberg, Chertoff,Bodman and now with King Mukasey I as enforcer outside the USA Constitution,what will the President do ? will he do what’s best for America ? or will he do what the neocons want ?
the candidates must clearly tell what steps they will take in the first 6 months about Energy alternatives: will they install solar panels and concentrators everywhere ? turbines? ethanol/biodiesel/methane/plug-in in most gas stations ? hydrogen fuelcells for cars and trucks and in gas stations hydrogen delivery ? water desalination and water re-distribution ? a smart guest worker program that let us grow most or all our fruits and vegetables inside the USA ? above all,training in all these issues from energy to organic foods, will the candidates go forward ? or back to the same old nonsense?
the Debates must give precise answers about these and other vital questions, for me is Edwards-Huckabee-Obama-Paul-Richardson the only way to break free from the Neocon and Oil Lobby’s and set America on a new course, these candidates must consider running as a team , most of the rest of the candidates are loaded with the same old neocons and incompetents that got us where we are today , we need new leaders and no more Oil and Neocons in power, let’s give them a long vacation !
mc @ 66
Me too. The only thing to avoid is the obviously snark-ridden idiotic questions. But, aside from that everyone should be asking questions.
rwcole @ 97
The fundamental difference is that an individual should receive more protection and help from his or her government than some financial entity (corp., bank, s&l, etc.). Financial entities are by nature investment risks. A person isn’t risking investment capital. A person is the foundation of our country and should be respected that way.
EvilDrPuma @ 115
It’ll be like the Trilla in Manila, LibertyLee vs. Colbert…winner take nothing!
LOL
eCAHNomics @ 136
Has the idea of simply ejecting her from their Muslim country never occurred to them?
Why did Mohammad’s religion inspire so many people to do so many nasty things? Same for Christianity, I suppose?
Were people always cruel and violent and capable of using absolutely anything as a pretext for continuing it? Perhaps Mohammad and Jesus should’ve whispered or something.
Twain @ 171
Yeah, I guess all the Dem candidate speeches calling for immediate withdrawal from Iraq just aren’t specific enough. Ha!
Hugh @ 193
It could become a bidding war of sorts. Who pledges to build the wall the highest, kill the most Muslims the fastest, etc.?
LibertyLee @ 202
Any living person could ‘threaten’ us with words. Nobody in the whole world who doesn’t have a large number of deliverable nukes can in any way defeat America — save ourselves.
So, I guess, in those terms, we’ve already won!
Okay, next issue.
LibertyLee @ 220
We spend how many billions on our war machine and how many airplanes were called to stop the airplanes of 9/11? Seems it’s not the size that counts, but how it’s used. Bush is further proving that by wasting our military on Iraq.