The US military in Iraq has invested a lot of media effort trying to convince not only Americans but also Iraqis to believe we’re making so much progress in reducing violence that displaced Iraqis can begin returning home. It’s a strategy apparently based on the bootstrap theory that if you can convince enough people that things are better, people will actually start to behave as though things really are better.
So it is with some irony that the New York Times’ Michael Gordon co-authors this story reporting the US military’s frustration with the problem of returning refugees, something both the US and the Iraqi authorities are pointing to as a sign of progress. But when bus loads of Iraqi refugees recently returned from Syria — an event probably staged for the media given the mainstream coverage — the returning refugees often had no where to go.
Many of the refugees left Iraq because they were forced from their homes by terrorist ethnic cleansing campaigns from one or another sectarian militias. Gordon’s article acknowledges that the success of ethnic cleansing may account for part of the drop in violence:
Many neighborhoods in Baghdad have become largely Shiite or Sunni, as one group drove the other out in calculated sectarian cleansing. Sunnis have moved into Shiite homes, and Shiites into Sunni ones. This segregation has contributed to the decline in violence. But what would happen if the original residents insisted on moving back into their homes?
So once a neighborhood was “cleansed” of members of the offending sect, the abandoned homes were quickly turned over to other displaced persons from the opposite sect. Coming “home” is not possible for the returning refugees without forcing a dangerous reverse chain reaction, creating new displaced persons and risking a return of the sectarian strife that led to the displacement and refugee conditions in the first place.
I assume the military’s main purpose in planting these articles is to portray US military officials as both sympathetic to the problem and frustrated at the absence of any effective plans by the al Maliki government for solving it. But aside from the fact that a substantial number of those who fled are Sunnis for whom the Shia government, already suspicious of the US pro-Sunni efforts, may be less than sympathetic, it’s not clear how much the government can really do. How does a government force tens of thousands of once displaced people out of their dwellings and back on the streets for the purpose of reintegrating neighborhoods that were recently segregated through violence? Perhaps that’s why al Maliki has given the job of figuring it out to Ahmad Chalibi, the man who was also tasked to resolve the oil revenue distribution issue.
The Times article suggests the problem might be mitigated if Iraq can just build new housing and communities to handle the returnees, but how realistic is that? Various estimates place the number of Iraq refugees in neighboring countries in excess of 2 million, and the number of “internally displaced persons” within Iraq at 1 to 1.5 million.
Even under the best of conditions, which don’t exist, it’s unrealistic to believe even a strong, efficient and unbiased central government — and there isn’t one — could deal effectively with a problem of this size, complexity and potential for violence. Building whole new neighborhoods seems beyond a government that is struggling just to deal with a growing cholera outbreak that has now spread into Baghdad because of the deteriorating condition of water and sewage treatment facilities. And it’s not as though the US could easily solve this by pouring additional billions into Iraq and sending in the Army Corp of Engineers. Remember Katrina.
When George Bush announced his plan for an “enduring relationship” with Iraq last Monday, complete with promises for US forces to ensure Iraq’s internal security, he didn’t mention that the most likely security issues could arise in dealing with Sunni/Shia interactions. Solving the refugee/displaced persons dilemma implicates that security responsibility, which is perhaps why Michael Gordon is suggesting it’s now the US military’s problem.
Our military commanders are no doubt recalling that when President Bush was asked whether Palestinian refugees could return to their homes in Israel, his answer was no.
Photo: Street near Baladiyat refugee camp, by aliveinbaghdad
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mornin’!!
someones up early
Good morning Scarecrow.
Wonder what the Friday news dump will be? It’s always excitinging on Fridays with this criminal regime.
Going home with no place to go.Katrina in Iraq?
Goodmorning scarecrow!
2? Scarecrow you are right on the mark with this. What the neo-con Gordon (and NYT editorial cronies) is up to here is to attempt to build a case so that claims of “winning the war” don’t mean bringing the troops home, as they did when Sen. Aiken addressed this in the Vietnam war, but rather stay there to serve as a key component of the administration.
Also, there seem to be major problems with the 2 NYT maps of Baghdad (before and after). What evidence is the 2nd map based on. And in terms of returning populations, how have the numbers been ascertained on the ground? I haven’t seen much visual evidence in the press that massive numbers are at the borders rushing back in. Have these folks been interviewed?
Ah but I understand that Palestinians are terrerrissits.
Please excuse the early OT, but JoeScar just informed me that “Iran is one of the largest planets on earth”
I didn’t know that – bet y’all didn’t either, and it’s always good to learn at least one new thing per day, methinks.
caw CAW!
Good Morning Scarecrow!
It is so way beyond my life experience, that I just .can.not. fathom what these people are going through. And before this happened to them, I’m sure they felt the same way.
Is Bush paying Syria and the other Arab contries to return these people home wether they want to or not? Is Bush paying thr terroists to stand down until he is out of office to make the SURGE look good?
Has there been a promise of aid to these countries?
jayt @ 7
He attended the Quayle skool of lurning
Things Come Undone @ 9
No, other countries have more than had their fill, with millions of refugees to support.
Yes, Sunni groups considered “terrorists” at one time are now being paid off by us.
The refugees echo the SHOCK that was Katrina. This all works very well for disaster capitalists to grab what they will, to keep a population dispersed, disorganized and powerless to assert what is in their best interest.
Chaos is what they want and they plan to make it last for long enough to destroy the people and their will for national identity.
When they are pacified, the vultures can prey.
awesome post. that even bushco could focus on their
liespropagandapr campaign in the face of so much suffering is mind boggling.Bush is trying to make Iraq look like good news and trying to blame Democrats for sabotaging that success. It’s all lies.
Scarecrow where is Raven? I don’t want to attack Petreaus until he is here but the time is coming to judge the SURGE. I need your and his help!
We need a coordinatded assualt and I’m just a bit player with a talent for anger and Sun Tze. Fine I’m a BA in Philosophy
No miliary experience besides seeing my friends suffer and be ignored!
But Nobody treats my friends bad!
But I know I can’t help them unless the VETs here add their voice!
Elliott @ 8
Yep. One of the largest humanitarian crisis in history.
What I find interesting is that it’s the US military giving this story to the media’s Pentagon correspondents, rather than the State Department, or USAID tallking to their media contacts. Is this being portrayed as the military’s problem, not State’s? Or is this Petaeus’ way of taking a shot at Rice?
Good morning everyone.
Scarecrow @ 16
Good point vis-a-vis who this is reported to. I think it is part of the same story to keep the troops there for the long duree to address this (It also means Blackwater stays longer, hence more money into Rethug companies).
George Simian @ 14
i’d cheer him and throw confetti at his victory parade myself if that would bring our troops (including mercenaries) home.
Things Come Undone @ 9
The Syrians and Jordanians have both started to refuse long-term visas to Iraqi refugees. This essentially compels them to return to Iraq when their short-term entry passes expire, since the US and European countries have not increased their quotas for Iraqis.
As far as paying off “terrorists”…if you mean the insurgents, then certainly they have been granted local autonomy without interference in addition to money and weapons.
The whole deal that the US would temporarily clear a zone, and then turn it over to the Iraqi government troops was abandoned about 2 months into the “surge”. Essentially Petraeus went with the “Warlord strategy” rather than a “Iraqi Army strategy”. That’s because the US needed to lower casualties to deceive the US public that was measuring progress by US military mortality. Temporarily Iraqi casualties went up, due to ethnic cleansing. Minority sects recognized that once the warlords took over they were finished…especially after the killings.
But once an area was “homogenized” of rivals then killings went down. And foreign fighters were simply an impediment to the local Sheykhs, so al-Qaida was also attacked. At least unless they have surrepticiously fashioned agreements with the local warlords. But since the locals no longer needed an alliance with al-Qaida to fight the Americans, they were the new threat to consolidating power.
Good Morning
Great to see you,Scarecrow.
It may also be an advance storyexcuse on why the violence returns when the surge troop involvement numbers come down (our troop increases resume their former pre-surge levels). In other words it is not that the surge was a blip caused by the short increase in troop numbers, but because the situation itself has changed because of the throngs rushing back in.
this really is digg-worthy pups!
and Spotlight it too!
Richmond @ 17
If I weren’t such a trusting person, I would predict there will be untold billions handed out in contracts to private US contractors to build new homes in Iraq — at exactly the same time Americans are being foreclosed in record numbers and the US economy is tanking from our own housing credit crisis.
If you wanted to imagine FUBAR scenarios, it would be hard to beat reality.
i’d cheer him and throw confetti at his victory parade myself if that would bring our troops (including mercenaries) home.
I’d promise to not throw *anything* at him, but that’s as far as I’m willing to go on that one…
I love my house and I own the house and the land it sits on.
Is it the same in Iraq? Do these people own their homes, or at least some of them. I cant even begin to imagine how sad it must be.
Scarecrow @ 23
And, as with Katrina, in order for this deep pocket-lining to happen, you have to keep at bay all viable agencies who could do this instead of privateers (in this case the state department). Note also we will need to remove lots of rubble and build lots of new roads around all the newly built up separation walls. And, all those hospitals and schools the last US privateers built are unworkable, so those will need to be constructed as well.
Elliott @ 22
thanks for the reminder. i keep forgetting to digg.
Damm Pelosi’s Daughter Hispanics don’t vote in a block.
My Mom pale as snow Castelian (sp?) as her Grandma got hassled at Catholic Church doing the reading like she has for tweenty years.
Some chick from Chicago home of how many immigrants said she couldn’t understand her accent!
If the brown (of which thanks to Dad I am ask, Funny Diva) are getting lynched and the pale (white) are getting hassled for not speaking english after betting a Masters degree!
Then ya we are a voting block cause who amoung us are not affected then!
I wish I thought about this when Pelosi’s daughter was at the book club!
Scarecrow -
Thanks for the cholera link; that’s the most recent article I’ve seen on status of the problem. Says something to the effect that only one in three children have access to safe water; surprising that the difference isn’t even more pronounced.
My thoughts exactly about turning the contractors loose on building housing over there…and I’m sure they’ll do as good a job of that as they have of the new embassy. :-(
A n interesting article from Robert Fisk here http://news.independent.co.uk/…..204054.ece
If the Palestinians are continually denied their “right of return” there will be no peace in the ME. Israel must cease their occupation of Palestine, must return all land and water resources to Syria and Palestine and allow Palestinians to return to their villages and farms before there will be any peace in the region. The same applies to the american occupation of Iraq.
cinnamonape @ 19
Ok maybe the payment is not directly in cash that we can prove now. Although all the guns unaccounted for given to the the Iraqi police might be construed as a payment.
Can I get an Amen that I was right!
Richmond @ 21
Well, Selise and I have this running conversation about how to explain what’s happening in any given situation. Being somewhat naive and trusting, I start with the assumption that people are acting in good faith until they prove otherwise. They are genuinely surprised when things others predicted would fail actually fail. My friend remembers these things and starts from a different place on the gullibility -> cynicism spectrum. I always start over.
So I assume the military takes its mission seriously, that its mission is to pacify the country as an occupier, and that returning refugees pose a serious problem if the interactions are not handled fairly. And there’s no obvious way to do that.
That’s aside from all the irony of asking the military to solve a problem they contributed to by unleashing violence in the first place.
So if Syria and Jordan close their borders how many Iraqis are going home because they have no other place to go?
We need numbers from Petraeus! Plus we need Dems willing to challengr those numbers!
g’morning all…. cofffee is ready.
what’s that wet stuff failing from the sky? Rain? in So Cal?
Things Come Undone @ 31
I think the last account I read said we now have at least 60,000 Sunnis in these neighborhood watch units, and we’re paying them about $300/mo each to be on our side. And the al Maliki govt says it’s they’re responsibility, so they’re willing to take over the payments (so they can control who gets paid).
Scarecrow @ 32
My only quibbles are 1) There is not ONE U.S. military, but several. Gen. Betrayus is part of the political unit (selling the war to Congress and the American people). Troops on the ground are involved in on-the-ground strategically. There are many contexts when the two are not the same. 2) From experience we know that the Pentagon has gone out of their way to keep the State Dept out of the mix of what historically they have addressed. Remember State was NOT permitted to put out a plan for Iraq stability post invasion. Clearly the issue of promoting privateers in the “clean-up” was an issue from the outset.
Scarecrow @ 32
Sounds like a Hillary position to me. ” I trust that Bush will not lie and invade Iran as he did Iraq therefore I am going to vote for condemning Iran.” That is beyond gullible that is damn stupid
OldCoastie @ 34
Hopefully it’s not jet fuel…
nomolos @ 37
I’ll make an exception here and remember this.
Scarecrow @ 32 -
lol. no one here could guess it in a million years i’m sure, but i have a life long reputation for being gullible. sadly, not kidding.
and while i think being trusting in personal relationships is mostly a good thing… in politics, not so much. been burned so many times, i started paying attention when prof. foland said i needed to “release my inner cynic”
but cynicism’s not right either. so my latest approach is trying to apply the skepticism of a scientist – which requires asking lots of questions: is there supporting evidence? is there contradictory evidence?….
but it’s hard for me to maintain that level of inquiring. much easier to fall into what is, imo, unwarranted trust or unwarranted cynicism.
obviously, ymmv. *g*
geez, twolf! I hope not either because there is a LOT of it!
;-)
Petraeus says we can win in what ten years? Following his plan?
What moronic general sends his troops to a war where we are not threatened (no al Quieda in Iraq till we got there, no WMD etc).
Where we CAN’T afford to stay for ten years or more incase he is wrong?
Ask Petreaus where will the money come from? Ask him if staying in Iraq means higher taxes.
Ask Petreaus if we should tax oil companies for this war!
Ask Petraeus if states that get more money from the federal government than they pay should cut back their spending!
Either he lies and then we can attack him, or he makes the cost of war real to the Red States!
nomolos @ 37
way, way not fair.
selise @ 43
You do not think that the Hillary vote and explanation were stupid? Maybe moronic, imbecilic, what?
cinnamonape @ 19
Cinnamonape that was an incredibly clear and well thought out description of the “surge” and Petraeus’ “successful” strategy.
Thanks.
nomolos @ 44
i think senator clinton’s explanation was dishonest (i don’t thing she regrets the invasion and occupation of iraq – just the incompetency with which they were carried out). so it irked me because i don’t think anyone here is dishonest… or stupid.
Scarecrow can we still go off off topic like we used to when Trex was the Late Late night person? I don’t have anything today I’m just wondering?
haven’t read the comments, read scarecrow’s insightful post and came down to comment;
it is bizarre, isn’t it?
first they created the environment that caused ethnic cleansing and displacement
once that cleansing took place the violence obviously subsided
then those that weren’t “cleansed by death” instead cleansed by displacement are forced back to the place they were cleansed FROM
and this is some kind of success?
can you say pertetual war?
hmmm
Things Come Undone @ 42
Good morning, all.
I’m not defending the war. or the General, but al of these questions are mis-addressed. The General is a policy-implementer, not a policy maker. All of these questions should be addressed to your Representatives, Senators, and of course the Commander Guy. The General has the same mission as the rest of them-trying to do the best he can with what he has.
selise @ 46
Its a question of morality would any of us really care if Bush were winning?
Or is the cost of the war in people and taxes scaring the middle class?
Because we know that Bush will not let his elite base pay?
Things Come Undone @ 47
I’m never offended by folks going OT. I do it all the time. This early a.m. thread is also a chance to bring the morning’s stories to everyone’s attention. I don’t want to do a news summary, so bringing other stories in is fine, and other contributors pick up the links and write about them later.
That said, I promise to delete any comment that annoys me. :)
I guess what I’m saying is, Petraeus is not the problem, not really. Bush/Cheney is the problem.
RonD @ 49
“with what he has” If the general attacks where he does not have to Iraq, when Ossama is in Pakistan.
With money we don’t have the question of how long can we barrow the money and who will pay becomes relevant.
RonD @ 52
but bushco is using petraeus as a credibility shield… and petraeus is willing to be used in that way (which is not a military function).
that makes it important to tell the story of what petraeus is doing – because he now is part of the problem. and if we don’t, then we enable bushco’s ability to hide behind petraeus’ medals.
Just checking Scarecrow cause you know I do get way weird and off topic :)
RonD @ 52
Yes. But we can’t lose sight of the fact that in this “war” the brass and those on the ground are not always on the same track. This is intentionally the case, it seems to me, because of the large roles of both the National Guard (non-professional soldiers) and Blackwater forces. Like so many companies now, this war was largely out-sourced, and the military elite have assumed the role of CEO – top elites watching out for the company profits (here Halleburtan, GE etc.) and the politics of the engagement at home (Bush, AIP*C, Rethugs etc.).
Maybe people have seen this already, but if not, here it is:
Card Rejects Rove’s Claim That Congress Pushed Bush To War: ‘His Mouth Gets Ahead Of His Brain’
In case some of you missed it,
Old Coastie Is A Hero – A Famous One!
3 cheers for the morning coffee coastie!
well, hmpf! A New Push to Roll Back ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”
listening to the debate the other night I decided this is the dumbest damn law ever…
‘morning, Demi…!
twolf1 @ 57
you really have to watch that clip, Scarborough is literally laughing at Karl’s claim in essence calling him a flat out liar
rove is already a laughing stock
this is good stuff
selise @ 54
Point well taken-but Petraeus’ only REAL power in the situation is his resignation. Petraeus had to either take the mission-or retire, knowing that whoever went in his stead was likely to be even worse. Like I said, I’m not defending him…but I think attacking him wastes resources and is counterproductive, as it plays into the “attacking the troops” meme.
JMHO.
jayt @ 7
Joe is increasingly demonstrating his GOP bias. He has Andy Card on this morning, spewing RNC and WH talking points verbatim. If he is going to do that, he at least needs to have a Dem to counter-balance. I know Joe is a GOP hack but as a MSM figure, I believe he should have to demonstrate some semblance of independence.
Yes! Three cheers and a big Irish coffee for Old Coastie!
‘morning, Demi.
Things Come Undone @ 55
I didn’t say anything about way weird.
Bonjour OC and RonD.
Hey, it’s raining in LA too.
Yay. And, double yay.
(sorry for the OTs, but wanted to say hi afore I take off outta here.)
perris @ 61
Anyone with a pulse at the time would know that Karl Rove is lying about the Dems pushing Bush to invade Iraq. Rove was part of the White House Iraq Group (WHIG) which was formed before 9/11 as was seeking ways to justify an invasion of Iraq. There is no way Card or anyone could defend Rove’s statement and still maintain any credibility whatsoever.
RonD @ 62
this isn’t true, he had the only real option;
take the job and report what he knew, that the job cannot be compleated as advertised…and he was obligated to report that the mission is flawed and success could not be expected
that was the ONLY option
he is the very person that wrote the field manual telling us the occupation had to fail, it was under manned with no assets
so he needed to do his job and he has lost any credibility he might have enjoyed before he bowed down to king george
he is under obligation to testify to the truth as he knows it, not the truth as the king tells him
ot – good for senator biden:
From Springsteen’s “Magic”:
I got a shiny saw blade
All I need’s a volunteer
I’ll cut you in half
While you’re grinning ear to ear
And the freedom that you sought’s
Driftin’ like a ghost amongst the trees
This is what will be, this is what will be
Now there’s a fire down below
But it’s comin’ up here
So leave everything you know
And carry only what you fear
On the road the sun is sinkin’ low
There’s bodies hangin’ in the trees
This is what will be, this is what will be.
demi @ 58
Oldcostie You Rock!
By other incentivtives I assume they meant the GOP plan to award Californa electoral votes between GOP and DEM?
Unless they had more evil incetinvies for people to sign on that we don’t know about yet!
Is there any legal penalty going on these jerks?
Off to see the Wizard. See everyone later.
selise @ 69
Raising again the age-old question of whether lip service is better than no service at all.
I think I need new wiper blades… I got one of those dessicated ones on the passenger side…
all right – time for work…
thanks for the party last night, you guys!
;-)
Scarecrow @ 65
You know how weird I can be if I’m wrong stone me don’t erase me! :)
you really have to watch that clip, Scarborough is literally laughing at Karl’s claim in essence calling him a flat out liar
I watched it, and what the transcript can’t show is that Card himself almost laughed, and that before he actually answered the question “Is that how it happened?”, Card paused for a moment before he said, “ummm…No.”
Hope C&L picks up the clip.
I think I need new wiper blades… I got one of those dessicated ones on the passenger side…
How poetic.
Maybe we need to send new wiper blades to congress, so they can better see the truth.
Now Edwards has gone & done something really STUPID. He’s gonna have the I.R.S. enforce his health care mandate. Oh god, why did he open his mouth on that?
http://www.washingtonmonthly.c…..012605.php
eCAHNomics @ 79
I all ready have a big brother
eCAHNomics @ 79
Krugman has a very good column on this matter in the NYT this AM.
The Edwards plan makes a lot of sense actually.
eCAHNomics @ 79
Who has the best healthcare plan so far do you think?
I still think its early enough make all the DEMS change their minds and make them support one good plan.
eCAHNomics @ 79
It will be interesting to see how that plays. Here’s another take from Ezra Klein.
The debate might actually be helpful, because I think the logic will drive people to realize that a fair way to enforce a “mandate” is to have the costs of coverage paid via taxes, just like social security — the analogy to garnishment of wages, but not as offensive sounding. If that logic takes hold, then instead of thinking of health care as a “mandate” with penalties for those who don’t obey, we think of it as a program we all have to pay for via taxes.
Hello everyone. Thank you for this post Scarecrow. I’m only dashing through, leaving this link to donate to the Red Cross, Red Crescent. You can designate your donation to be used for the internally displaced in Iraq (they’re helping with the cholera problem, too). I know I’m the broken record with this…just think of me as a sort of Scarlet P for the Red Crescent!
IrishJim @ 67
Anyone with a pulse and a half a brain knows that Karl Rove is lying whenever he opens his mouth.
Things Come Undone @ 15
Assessing the surge should be based on the original goals of the surge. We have to remember that the purpose of theb troop increase was to open a window so that political reconciliation could occur, and so that troops at the Federal (not local) level could be trained to assume the countries own security.
(i) Forming a Constitutional Review Committee and then completing the constitutional review to resolve outstanding issues concerning: (i)Presidential powers, (ii)the powers of the regions vs. the central government, and (iii)the status of Kirkuk.
*They are still arguing about this. Not any of these points have been agreed upon since the “surge” began.
(ii) Enacting and implementing legislation on de-Ba’athification.
* Iraq still hasn’t made progress toward enacting and implementing legislation on de-Ba’athification reform. If anything, the recent arrests of members of the poltical leadership in Parliament that is intercedes on the behalf of former Ba’ath members indicates a hardening against reconciliation. The US Military establishing autonomous zones controlled by Sheikhs or militias are also antagonistic to achieving this benchmark
(iii) Enacting and implementing legislation to ensure the equitable distribution of hydrocarbon resources to the people of Iraq without regard to the sect or ethnicity of recipients, and enacting and implementing legislation to ensure that the energy resources of Iraq benefit Sunni Arabs, Shi’a Arabs, Kurds, and other Iraqi citizens in an equitable manner.
*Not only has the Central Gov’t failed to reach agreement on this, but the Kurds have struck off on an independant course. They are selling contracts to foreign firms autonomously.
(v) Enacting and implementing legislation establishing an Independent High Electoral Commission, provincial elections law, provincial council authorities, and a date for provincial elections.
Elections Law: Iraq hasn’t established provincial elections laws.
Provincial Council Authorities: Iraq hasn’t made satisfactory progress toward establishing provincial council authority.
Provincial Elections Date: Iraq hasn’t establishing a date for provincial elections.
(vi) There is little progress establishing amnesty for those who fought against the government since 2003 or who committed crimes in the name of the Iraqi Government.
(vii) Establishing a strong militia disarmament program to ensure that such security forces are accountable only to the central government and loyal to the constitution of Iraq.
*This has been a total failure, and, in fact, the US Military has been acting counter to the benchmark’s success.
(ix) Providing three trained and ready Iraqi brigades to support Baghdad operations.
*The Iraqis have only superficially established Iraqi Army/Guard presence throughout Baghdad, but these groups have been highly infiltrated by local militias and militia presence is widely thought to be the ones in actual control of the necessities of life.
(x) Providing Iraqi commanders with all authorities to execute this plan and to make tactical and operational decisions in consultation with U.S. Commanders without political intervention to include the authority to pursue all extremists including Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias.*
Iraq has not made satisfactory progress toward providing Iraqi commanders with authority to pursue all extremists including Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias. Iraqi and coalition forces have been given authorities to go after insurgents and militias, but there remains a negative political influence at a variety of levels with evidence of sectarian behavior.
(xi) Ensuring that Iraqi Security Forces are providing even-handed enforcement of the law.
Left on their own, many ISF units still tend to gravitate to old habits of sectarianism when applying the law….Sunni residents of Baghdad continue to believe that Shi’a-dominated National Police units and, to a lesser degree, Iraqi Army units are biased against them.
(xii) Ensuring that, as Prime Minister Maliki was quoted by President Bush as saying, “the Baghdad Security Plan will not provide a safe haven for any outlaws, regardless of [their] sectarian or political affiliation.” Despite some contentious operations against the Mahdi Army, the Iraqi Government has been still relunctant to damage relationships with Sadr or with the military leaders of SCIRI.
(xiii) Reducing the level of sectarian violence in Iraq and eliminating militia control of local security.
Militia presence is still strong and reaches into the security services of a number of ministries. Militias remain the dominant force in Basrah, and many provinces in Iraq ‑ largely as a result of intentional acts by the Coalition to cede control TO THEM!
(xv) Increasing the number of Iraqi security forces units capable of operating independently. Despite the rosy assessment of this in August (and earlier by the Administration) the fact is that desertions and unsuccessful training has been the pattern rather than the rule.
(xvi) Ensuring that the rights of minority political parties in the Iraqi legislature are protected. Minority parties remain marginalized, being excluded from top leadership positions. The major Sunni party has recently had dozens in their top leadership arrested.
(xvii) Allocating and spending $10 billion in Iraqi revenues for reconstruction projects, including delivery of essential services, on an equitable basis. Most contracts remain unfilled, or have been filled, under pressure, with US-based corporations with little or no experience in the field of interest. Embezzlement, to the tune of billions, has been a result of poor auditting practices.
(xviii) Ensuring that Iraq’s political authorities are not undermining or making false accusations against members of the ISF.
The members of the Iraqi Government continue to make these charges, but there is no strong evidence that they are false. Accusations that undermine the independence and non-sectarianism of the ISF occur.
Here are additional goals for the surge that were to be met in late 2007 and into 2008.
Defeat al-Qaida and its supporters and ensure that no terrorist safe haven exists in Iraq. Note that this was decreed to be a CONTINUING RESPONSIBILITY OF the US Military.
Support Iraqi efforts to quell sectarian violence in Baghdad and regain control over the capital.
* This has only occurred by allowing forcible sectarian/ethnic “cleansing” of many areas
Ensure the territorial integrity of Iraq and counter/limit destructive Iranian and Syrian activity in Iraq.
*Although the USM asserts a recent reduction and “Iranian” supported attacks (IED’s), these actually increased for the first 6 months of the surge.
Help safeguard democracy in Iraq by encouraging strong democratic institutions impartially serving all Iraqis and preventing the return of the forces of tyranny. * Buzzwords, not benchmarks
Foster the conditions for Iraqi national reconciliation but with the Iraqi Government clearly in the lead.
* No progress (see above)…a fact recognized by a recent Republican delegation to Iraq.
Continue to strengthen Iraqi Security Forces (ISF) and accelerate the transition of security responsibility to the Iraqi Government.
* No further progress
Encourage an expanding Iraqi economy, including by helping Iraq maintain and expand its export of oil to support Iraqi development.
* No progress, especially on the oil front
Promote support for Iraq from its neighbors, the region, and the international community.
* No progress. No regional conferences or actions by the Saudis in stopping the entry of foreign fighters into Iraq.
Note that there is no discussion of benchmarks in myriad other areas…such as the construction and staffing of hospitals. The security of schools and universities, and the prevention of sectarian attacks on students and faculty. General improvement in health conditions (a typhus epidemic has broken out during the surge). An improvement in infrastructure such as electrical supplies in Baghdad, clean water, and food and other commodity transport. There is no discussion of any effort to assure the rehabilitation of the Tikrit Dam whose foundations are slipping so that almost 2 million residents downstream could be drowned or made homeless.
nomolos @ 81
Link to Krugman column
Scarecrow @ 83
I think this will play into the hands of the no-tax people, and will set up antagonism against those with various illnesses. In Europe, as I recall, this is kept in a separate “file.” Social Security, for example, could do it even more effectively.
dakine01 @ 85
Amen to that. That is a given.
Scarecrow @ 83
from your keyboard to dog’s ear.
nomolos @ 81
In this case, Krugman is being a jerk. The politics of having the I.R.S. enforce anything other than despised mandatory taxes are catastrophic.
That’s the problem of not being able to suggest a universal government (i.e. tax) paid medical plan. Enforcement is simply impossible. I’m not an expert of Romney’s Massacusetts plan, so MA commenters can let me know if they think the enforecment mechanism there will work.
Glad you brought attention to this.
This – from the people who brought you Katrina!
Wish KKKarl had been there in person so that they could have laughed in his face.
Richmond @ 88
While still living in Europe I had a very small piece of my pay deducted every week (no pay no deduction) about 3%. For this I could go to any doctor anywhere, any hospital anywhere in England and get good and immediate , well maybe had to wait for an hour or so, (Having just spent over an hour waiting for the doctor yesterday for him to sign an insurance form an hour for actual treatment does not seem so bad) health care.
We have a system already in place in this country, medicare, another social security, as Scarecrow points out, that could administer the health care system. Incidentally the administration of health care, by insurance comapnies, in this country is about 6 times that in England.
eCAHNomics @ 91
no enforcement yet. mandatory coverage begins, i think, at the end of the year. this is from wikipedia:
eCAHNomics @ 91
The IRS currently collects Social Security Tax (premiums) and it seems to work fine. I don’t see the difference. So far as I know, that’s the way things work in the rest of the developed world. What’s so different here?
Cinnamonape @86 Have we accomplised anything important with the SURGE by way of benchmarks Bush agreed too?
Have we accomplised anything Bush could really brag about?
I wanted Raven and Scarecrow to compare this to Vietnam which they could do with credibilty I lack.
Your points are the ones I wanted to cherrypick after we establish a Vietnam link of failure to this war.
After all Ron Paul is not getting more political contributions from the army than the other GOPers because they think his antwar stance is wrong.
Vietnam means failure and mistakes by our government.
nomolos @ 94
It’s like the twelve steps of Vietnam. We’re probably around step 6.
eCAHNomics @ 91
The MA plan hasn’t solved the problem of penalties:
The penalty is so small, it makes sense to avoid the mandate.
wigwam @ 96
Out and out greed
wigwam @ 96
Social Security was passed long before Grover Norquist arrived on the scene.
Selise, thanks for the wiki. It sounds a lot like what Edwards is proposing. Two things, though. (1) It hasn’t begun yet. (2) It’s a blue state. Wait until the wingnuts start demonizing Edwards.
Another thing about this. Social security taxes fall heavily on the poor, so wingnuts don’t care that much about them.
Lots of folks signing up for the MA plan — growing pains follow.
Of course one outcome of national health insurance is that home foreclosures would drop by more than half.
eCAHNomics @ 103
Not true. SS tax (premiums) fall heavily on the Middle Class, and the wingnuts care about them. And while the IRS collects the SS tax, there is a critical 1 degree of separation, so that for most people, they don’t see SS as a tax.
selise @ 40
A person who is trustworthy realizes that there are unpredictable eventualities that even they can’t control. So they must show trust on the other side. It’s like asking someone for an ID or a deposit when they “borrow” something. That prevents a person from forgetting to return the item if they get caught up in events of the day.
Another two things that one can do while having a “trusting” attitude is to make sure that you don’t get into a position that you have no other options. Thus if the other person is unable to pay or follow through with a”promise” for whatever reason you have other recourses.
The second thing is to make a contract of MUTUAL TRUST. You ARE exhibiting trust by giving someone an item, an action, or power. At the same time that person must show trusts by giving YOU an item, action, or power over them. Thus both are exhibiting trust. If they don’t trust YOU to return the items (or act responsibly) why should you trust THEM?
People who insist on one way trust- “gimme that without security” or building up a pattern of prior committments establishing trust, usually are not to be trusted.
In addition one can see how they deal with others in their relationships (that’s the Scientific way). If the individual is constantly breaking treaties, pledges, changing rationales, making excuses, asking for delays, being selective in terms of who they benefit, lie, pander, make grandiose promises, exhibit hypocrisy, associate with other distrustworthy characters..in other words, act like Bush….don’t trust.
nomolos @ 105
I am pretty darned surprised bussinesses aren’t in favor of national health plans
cuts their expense, makes all jobs more attractive, keeps their work force healthy and happy
this is really a no brainer
the only industry that shouldn’t be for this is the health care industry
Scarecrow @ 104
A vivid illustration as to how serious the problem of no health care is. And lets face it $147 million is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of murdering thousand upon thousands of people in Iraq $1 trillion and counting
The pressure on refugees to return or relocate due to the strain on their temporary host locales is mounting today. Syria had an open door policy until last month when the visa requirement was instated to curb the flow of refugees now creating a huge strain on the basic needs of their their own population .
This is a huge story, literally and figuratively, yet we hear so little about it by comparison.
blue texan with a rudy post up yonder
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..-times-up/
Blue Texan has a new Rudy thread ready.
perris @ 108
It is like Gas milage. Congress runs the system. They get gezillions from Big Auto NOT to put standards in place. On health care. Yes it would make logical sense to both businesses over all -and American citizens -but Big Insurance AND Indie Doctors – push the card that such systems are bad. And, more importantly pour gezillions into Congress to oppose them. Remember the bankrucy bill? I would be curious if Biden (from the land of big Insurance) has been asked about his health care plans. No one that I know has been willing to pull Insurance and Big Pharma mogols out of our health care system. And, that is where the waste, the headache, the big money, and some of the medical problems come from. (Where is the suit by women against Big Pharma on the estrogen tragedy (huge percentage increase in breast cancers for an unproven heavily pushed drug).
selise @ 46
Maybe disingenuous.
Just as Edwards mea culpa though.
Edwards also voted for the authorization. He also claimed that he was lied to by Bush. He also served on the Senate Intelligence Committee with Clinton. He also had access to the NIE…that both assert that they didn’t read…trusting to what they heard by Administration officials in hearings.
As, I, and others have repeatedly pointed out…there was lots of evidence that the assertions of WMD’s were dubious, if not outright fabrications. But both Clinton and Edwards supported the AUMF on Iraq.
Edwards and Clinton both fall back on the “We had to trust the President” argument. C’mon! Hillary was a target of the “right wing conspiracy”, while Edwards has taken on the corporate liars who supported the likes of Bush as a trial lawyer…he knew Bush was a fraud. If he didn’t Edwards was born in a cabbage patch.
The reason they voted for the AUMF was simple…there was the smell of blood in the air…and Americans (and a lot of other nationalities) pretty much get irrational and militaristic when the tub is thumped. Neither Hillary nor Edwards were about to risk their political futures by taking an ethical or moral position that would place their ships upon the coral of a political reef. They had to follow the tide of public opinion.
cinnamonape @ 114
And, there was/is AIP*C
cinnamonape @ 114
i think this may work for edwards – but not for clinton, i think she really did think the invasion was a good idea. not because of wmd, but because she bought into the goal regime change. i’m not sure how much thought edwards gave to his vote at the time – wasn’t paying attention to him. was paying attention to kerry, though, i think this explanation works perfectly for him.
perris @ 61
IOW Card is saying hat Rove let a “strategy option”…blaming the Democrats out of his lips BEFORE he had created the environment for which it would be credible. To do that he would have needed some document or such from the Clinton era secretly leaked…showing that Bush was “misled” as to the degree of threat. OR he would have to do a little careful editing of those private meetings with Congressional leaders like Biden and Levin…leaving out the “Nots” when they said “We do not think you should attack Iraq without obtaining a UN Resolution”.
iraquis should just learn to luvvv those painted schools without plumbing or bulletproof walls and get used to the plastic wrist restraints applied by american war ‘heroes’
eCAHNomics @ 73
Maybe you have a different definition of “lip service” than I do. IMHO “lip service” is when you say I’ll do this…but the event is never gonna happen. So it’s easy to say.
I’d give Bush attacking Iran about even odds. Not “lip service”.
alank @ 99
i accepted that i was powerless over the uranium/agent orange in the jungle/marsh and turned my fears over to a higher power.
no wait. that’s 7
demi @ 58
fantastic story! way to go!
epu’d – but very nice job with a huge problem that no one is talking about, Scarecrow.
nomolos @ 81
No it doesn’t…not politically and not administratively. The better system is to pay for basic coverage and check-ups through general revenue, including covering those who don’t need to submit the 1040: and then offer tax incentives for those with individual health care plans (with the health care plan submitting information to the IRS). Poor get covered (and out of the emergency rooms for deferred illnesses that go untreated), middle and upper class select the programs they want to supplement their basic coverage and get refunds (scaled to income level) for aspects of their plans. If they don’t get a plan they get the basic…but will pay proportionately more in taxes. Thus they are “encouraged” to get an “appropriate plan”. Certain “luxuries” would not be subject to tax breaks…but could still pay off for the individual if they had the need for it.
No one would be “dunned”. The only way to escape would be to be a tax avoider. That would make them subject to criminal penalties for THAT. But cheaters would only get basic coverage plans…everyone would receive a basic medical card.
Poor and lower middle class could also get a specialized plan and a rebate. They’d still have to pay something for the better plans if they paid no taxes.
The evaluation of plans and income levels could be set by an outside commission. The role of the IRS would be merely to see the income, the plan, and issue the rebates.
I’m surprised more people haven’t discussed this in terms of the change Syria made in Visa requirements for Iraqi refugees. I don’t have an easy URL at hand, but my impression was that Syria imposed a new cannot-stay-indefinitely rule partly in retaliation for the bombing of their building, aka Israeli airstrike on suspected Syrian nuclear facility. At the time Syria imposed the new rules, I thought this was really going to hurt US spinmeisters because Iraq cannot reabsorb its mass of refugees. I should have guessed this “Now I can go to Disneyland” spin would be the first attempt. But this will get a lot worse week-by-week because of the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who escaped to Syria but will not be allowed to remain there (I think, for more than 90 days).
PHIL :)
Things Come Undone @ 97
Bush (or should I say the Iraqis) has FULLY (as defined by the Pentagon and State Department) accomplished two or three of the benchmarks that were supposed to be reached in August. That was part of the report to Congress mandated before the August vote on the supplemental. The remainder were not attained, or Bush simply said the benchmark wasn’t important. The ones not attained were covered in my list. Of the 21 benchmarks that were supposed to be reached 17 were not attained, and some of these NO PROGRESS had occurred, even with the greatest effort of the Bush Administration to
make the turd look like diamond.
Vietnam is some ways similar, some ways different. The similarities are a war against a foe that really didn’t pose a real threat to American interests, based on a false “incident” or “threat”. A corrupt government established by the US who tried to throw money at the problem, much of which ended up in the pockets of corrupt US contractors. There are other similarities as well…the high civilian casualties, the belief that air power could “win” the war, for example.
But there are immense differences, IMO. Vietnam didn’t have the diversity of ethnic factions, the strong religious differences that tended toward a sectarian war. It wasn’t predominantly an urban conflict, with the use of car and suicide bombs being used to both attack the occupiers, but also civilians. It was in the padis and jungles and deltas. Disease and boredom were as much elements in that war causing casualties.
As well, I think the lack of understanding the cultural element actually is much greater in Iraq. You would never here Americans angry about Buddhists during Vietnam…compare that to the anti-Islamic fervor today. GI’s in Vietnam actually interacted with the Vietnamese as friends, lovers, and colleagues. I doubt that occurs in Iraq to the same degree. There was a the end of the War a sincere concern for the Vietnamese who had become refugees. No one talked of any of them being potential terrorists. I suspect that there will not be that same concern about an influx of Iraqi refugees. Especially from those folks who assert we are making Iraq a Democracy, and that the Iraqis actually want us there.
Vietnam eventually was hard to escape from in the psyche of most Americans. Young men were being drafted from every Senior class from every High School…and coming back in boxes on a weekly basis. There were only 4 TV channels (3 major) and so news was impossible to escape from. Today one can watch the Cartoon Channel or ESPN all day long, or get ones news from the “Pro-War” Fox. The shift in American opinion on Vietnam came only through massive protests, mainly led by the generation being taken off to the war.
Today there has been a vast shift in the support for the Iraq war without that. It will be interesting for historians to assess how that shift occurred in the absence of MSM criticism and analysis. Can it simply be attributed to fatigue for the lack of success so apparent from the early assertions of success? I tend to think that it was the result of an alternative form of rapid communication that stepped outside the MSM that eventually reached enough people that they could convey that information to others in their social group.
Richmond @ 106
Also there is an employer matching system…so that the worker actually gets more back than they would ever put in. The wingnuts hate Social Security mainly because they have to pay the matching tax for their workers. THAT’s why they hate it!
In all those Bush “privatization plans” they never included the Employer “match” thus offering a massive secret tax cut to businesses.
If businesses had to pay something to support the health care plans of their workers it would also take the pain off the payment. Maybe they could also get a tax break for offering better plans than the basic.
selise @ 116
Well one could support getting rid of Saddam without supporting an invasion. But doing that successfully would have required supporting not just exiled factions that dressed in pinstripe suits, but groups both inside the country and in Iran. And we would have had to have acted to try to get these groups together for them to succeed…maybe even agree in ADVANCE to what they wanted the nation to look like. But none of these groups were any more willing to talk with one another than the parliament of Iraq is today.
But IF they had hashed out their differences, and realized that was necessary to a successful revolution, there would have been a consensus government in place almost from the get go, with a framework for a Constitution.
I don’t recall any such meeting like that- where different factions and ethnicities got together in Kurdistan, for example. Instead the right-wing built up Ahmed Chalabi as the next Nelson Mandela.
But as in all revolutions sometimes political unity is only found through blood shed in common cause. Doing that in a united fashion builds trust. That’s very difference that having someone come in a tell you…”WE made you free, what are you complaining about when we give you these really good leaders and tell you how to be free.”.
Let’s get this “Who believed in WMD” thing out of the way, and don’t be too hard on those who were convinced. I always thought the war was wrong, but after watching, live, the UK Parliamentary Debate, I did think there were WMD’s. I just didn’t believe a case had been made to go get them from Saddam. This was partly because of some of the people, who I still think were and are not idiots, who appeared to have seen things which convinced them.
Since there were no WMDs, the things they saw were clearly lies.
I do not believe I have ever heard a truly complete explanation as to what these lies actually were, who put them there, and who originated them, though of course my guess would tend towards the OVP.
Philip Merrill @ 124
Timing is wrong ASFAIK
Israel bombed that Syrian facility (whatever it was…I don’t think it was a nuke facility…maybe SCUD missiles) in September. The Syrians started denying Iraqi refugees much earlier this year. I simply think that they couldn’t handle any more and they had to do something to slow the tsunami.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00788.html
I don’t know much about the health care plans of each candidate. If someone thinks Edwards enforcement mechanism isn’t very good, then the first thing I want to know is how the other plans do it. Has some other candidate got a better mechanism?