Boy, last night’s GOP “You Tube” debate was low brow. By now we all know that following in the codpiece of their party’s last standard bearer, three or four of these stiffs style themselves as the new Jesus. To which I say, I had no idea that the Lord would return as such a diva. You have Romney, “Business Class Jesus“; Tancredo, “Jesus hatin’ Jesus“; Thompson, oh I’m sorry, “Sleepy” was a dwarf, not the messiah.
And then there’s Rudy Giuliani, “Broomstick Jesus“. And what a boatload a miracles this guy has become. Just yesterday we find out Rudy cuddled up to buddies of Bin Laden right AFTER 9/11, all for the mighty dollar. I’m sure he did it because of 9/11 it’s why he does everything, even before 9/11.
Which naturally explains his billing of all manner “security” expenses to various New York City government agencies so he could head up to Judy Nathan’s place in the Hamptons where only the tiara never came off and the safety word was, “Louima!” now of course it’s “9/11″?
Rudy’s explanation for these expenses is as follows:
“I had 24-hour security for the eight years that I was mayor. They followed me everyplace I went. It was because there were, you know, threats, threats that I don’t generally talk about. Some have become public recently; most of them haven’t.”
I guess Rudy didn’t really know the depths to which Donna Hannover would go. The nerve of her.
(I dedicate this post to the late Dick Wilson.)
Related posts:
Spotlight
Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search
G’morning, Attaturk.
Attaturk, his name was Dick Wilson according to the AP article you linked to.
Good morning.
I only watched a little of the debate. The republicans freak me out.
Suzanne @ 2
D’oh! I’ll fix it.
Jack Benny made me do it.
g’morning cassie.
Attaturk are you new? Do you just do the early early mornings? I am usually on at night.
hiya suzanne!
SnarKassandra @ 6
Yes, new…well new here. I’ve been bloviating on the internets on my own blog for about 3 and a half years (obviously famously).
Jane asked me if I would do the early early morning shift.
Cool. I have had a blog for a year and a half.
He had to do that.
There were “threats”.
And anyway… …9/11!
Go Rudy.
I am going to go back to sleep. G’nite.
Good morning Everybody,
Hi Attaturk – you got the Imus shift. Should get interesting.
Welcome.
I’m about outta gas so I’m gonna say g’nite all.
Sweet dreams Suzanne.
Nice to touch base with you.
Same to you, boston, its been a long time since we’ve been on a thread together.
1,673 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Attaturk and any Early Mornin’ Firepup Freedom Fighters:
After watchin about 5 minutes of what passed fer a debate last night, I went screamin’ outta my den and when my wife asked what was wrong I told ‘er my head was gunna explode and I had ta go ta work in a couple of hours. JeeeeZUS…our politics has become some thin out of a bad Salvador Dali nightmare in full color!! The fascisti have succeeded in makin’ our national politics somethin outta ESPN with folks screamin bullshit accross the room at some poor sot who is too dumb ta duck.
My God this can’t be happenin’!!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE FUCKIN’ AMMUNITION AND DON’T LET THE BASTARDS INTO YER YARD!!
One good thing is these guys will start to wind down their campaigns or self destruct pretty soon.
They are a self righteous embarrassment to our country and last night’s debate exposed what bible touting idjits most of them are.
Hmm! Threats? I thought he was out golfing with his son? That’s what he was supposed to be doing on those days when he was absent from Gracie Mansion? You mean he was shtuppin’ in the hamptons?
I’m SHOCKED!
I’m sure his son is also…after all…he was the “cover”.
And what’s a few hundred thousand dollars shuttled from the budgets of those indigents who need Defense Lawyers, or the handicapped, or to assure lofts aren’t firetraps? After all Rudy needs to be pleasured, and he doesn’t want to get someone known to kill pet dogs (and I don’t mean Michael Vick) angry.
Good morning, Attaturk and early morning firepups. I also missed the debate last night for reasons similar to NorskeFlamethrower’s. It seems I become too upset by watching most MSM and other thuglican pontification so I am forbidden by Mrs Bilbo to watch these things. Gotta watch out for the ole blood pressure, dontcha know?
Good morning, pups. It’s TOMC and Roger Cohen in the NYT today. TOMC watched the Republicans and says that in last night’s debate, the Republican candidates who seemed to speak from the heart did best, even though their hearts occasionally seemed to be nutty. Mr. Cohen looks at Venezuela and says Hugo Chávez’s grab for soci*list-emperor status is grotesque, dangerous and a terrible example for a region that has been consolidating democracy.
http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/
The coffee, tea and hot chocolate are ready, and the biscuits are out of the oven.
Bilbo, I’ve found having a basket of rolled up socks all ready to throw at the TV during exercises like last night’s helps. Makes you feel better, and doesn’t hurt the TV. Just make sure you have enough socks…
[Mod: edited to clear filters]
Well, I’ve got a comment that vanished into nothingness somewhere… I wonder if this will get through…
Good morning pups!
Let’s try this again. It’s TOMC and Cohen in the Times. TOMC watched the Republicans and says that in last night’s debate, the Republican candidates who seemed to speak from the heart did best, even though their hearts occasionally seemed to be nutty. Mr. Cohen looks at Venezuela and says Hugo Chávez’s grab for socialist-emperor status is grotesque, dangerous and a terrible example for a region that has been consolidating democracy.
http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/
All the morning beverages are ready, and the biscuits are out of the oven.
Bilbo, I’ve found it helpful to have a basket of rolled up socks handy to throw at the TV during exercises like last night’s debate. Makes you feel better, and doesn’t hurt the TV. Just make sure you have enough socks…
Bilbo @ 19
Good mornin’, dear hobbit -
Cheapest blood pressure med in the world…..off button on the idjit box. *g*
Anybody seen MR. Bill lately?
Hi Marion, I’ll leave out the coffee, toast with butter and jam, or there’s egg salad in the fridge.
Good Morning!
ON WASHINGTON JOURNAL
Thursday, November 29
7am – Newspaper Articles & Viewer Calls
7:30am – Adam Smith, St. Petersburg Times, Political Editor
8:30am – Susan Ferrechio, Washington Examiner, Congressional Correspondent
8:45pm – Gary Kalman, U.S. Public Interest Research Group, Federal Legislative Director
9:15pm – Melanie Sloan, Citizens for Responsibility & Ethics, Executive Director [CREW]
I saw MR. Bill over at TRex’s place. Not now, however. I was just checking it out.
Well, I’ve tried twice. If it ever shows up I slogged through TOMC… [gack] And Cohen. Here — have a biscuit, hot out of the oven.
If “9/11″ is their safety word, they must not get to have much fun.
He says it so often that it’s over before it starts.
Good morning firepups.
50 new blog posts and news stories on the Reality Based News Feed in the past 24 hrs.
Marion, I see your comment, have you refreshed yourself lately? *g*
mornin’ TexB!
Elliott -
Ohhh, Sloan! S/b interesting to see what CREW’s got up its sleeve these days.
What was that muckery with C-Span in the last few days wrt running radio programs in the a.m.? I’ve been on the road a lot recently the last week and haven’t heard any explanation of why they would do something so stoopid; if I want to listen to radio, I know where to find it. :-(
Boston -
Thanks for the sighting.
morning elliott!
Elliott, now I see it/them. I mashed F5 before after the first one and still got nothing… Go figure.
Intelligence Goes Local- Fusion Centers Go After Local Crime
Apparently we know don’t simply have to worry about the Feds using the databases conjured up from the phone and internet records of US Citizens. Local law enforcement “centers” are using this intelligence now for non-terrorist related law enforcement.
Part of the expansion to other areas of investigation is because they have no real “terrorism” related cases to investigate. But they have access to the databases so they are using them for everything from Alimony to Z*l*ft prescription abuse cases. Betcha that they’ll be checking up on people involved in embezzlement, tax avoidance, bigamy, child support avoidance, credit fraud, business fraud, and not paying traffic fines in another state….good luck all you fine Republicans and Libertarians!
But all of this is to good purpose…after all criminal activities are likely to lead to terrorism. It’s a gateway drug sort of thing!
Good Morning Firepups,
It’s cool and overcast this morning in central Jersey, with some light showers on the way [I’ll try to send them south, where they are needed].
Mr. NJP and I stopped watching television after 9/11 [we never had cable, and reception got much worse after the transmission antenna on top of WTC North Tower was lost]. It’s much more fun to read the living blogging that several good web sites were doing. I am grateful for all those liberals who have the fortitude to watch the Republicans and report back to the rest of us with weaker stomachs.
I’ve got a big pot of coffee, some hot water for tea, and a cranberry-walnut loaf. Pour yourself a cup and cut yourself a slice.
Work for peace, every day.
the current gooper flavor of the day is Hucksterbee –the only gooper with less experience than the codpiece..
Waccamaw @ 23
Lotsa amateur MR Bill on Google videos.
Cold and wet here in the forests of the Pacific NW. Just a few degrees over freezing, the promised snow never came. Just rain so cold it doesn’t seem possible to be a liquid.
Low of 45, going up to 70, cloudy, here in central Texas.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 16
As Jefferson stated, the second amendment exist as a matter of last resort, for the governed to protect themselves from tyranny in government.
Fascists threaten Americans everyday taking freedom and liberty in increments, till none exist.
Hi, njprogressive! I think I’ll take a slice of that cranberry walnut loaf to work to have with my coffee. Sounds yummy!
Has anybody here started reading Molly Ivins’ last book, The Bill of Wrongs? I’m about halfway through, and the stories she tells of how people’s rights have been abrogated are truly terrifying. I’m just finishing the chapter about the Mayfields in Oregon, whose home was searched because they are Muslims, and rank FBI incompetence.
Bilbo -
Can’t watch vids b/c of dial-up. Assume this is not the Lake’s MR. Bill?
njprogressive @ 45
not yet, but it’s on my list.
Attaturk @ 8
Snarkassandra’s still too young for the OTHER OTHER blog, Attaturk. ;-)
Marion, along with the cranberry-walnut loaf, I’m trying to send the rain your way. We’ve had plenty, and I know you need it. What’s the update on the drought in Atlanta? Are the forecasts still as dire as I read recently [running out of water in less than 120 days]?
Thanks watertiger!
Marion in Savannah @ 20
The filters here at FDL are truly a mystery to me. The offending word (which must not be repeated) is still present in the post, yet the post made it through. It’s pretty sad when you can’t even mention the political persuasion of Eugene Debs because of some pharmaceutical company’s performance enhancing drug name.
Marion in Savannah, Mrs. Bilbo enjoyed your sock idea. Thanks.
Waccamaw @ 45
My bad. I did not realize we were referring to a persona here at the lake. In the immortal words of Emily Litella, “never mind”.
Morning all! NJ the water supply is certainly dire. I live in Fulton Cty and they recently initiated another 10% cut in water usage on a voluntary basis. If that doesn’t work they will have fines. 10% might not seem like much but I have already cut back significantly.
for those so inclined, the Repub debate is running on CSPAN 2
egregious @ 22
Ring Ring 7 AM
Move yourself to go again!
P.S. Broomstick Jesus? Attaturk, you’re a genius!
mornin’ all
Here the homeowners are under restriction from time to time. But not businesses, office parks, apt complexes, etc.
Elliott @ 54
No! Not again! My brain might explode.
Tex Betsy, you’re up early. Are you okay?
Gotta run, pups!
Help yourselves, and have a day filled with kindness!
I didn’t watch the debate but after reviewing the comments last night, I obviously missed a good party!
On CBS news wee early am, they basically focused on the exchange about immigration between Rudy and Mitt
JPL @ 59
Having some pain. And a snoring teen on my floor. I’ll sleep later.
Thanks for asking.
TexBetsy @ 57
Usually one of the Lake conductors will summarize the low points of these events. It’s far less stressful and time-consuming to read their summary.
Bilbo I watched it once. Second hour.
I saw portions of the train wreck R debate. I don’t know which was more creepy-crawly, the candidates, the utube questions or the audience reactions. Terrifying.
Did health care questions come up at all?
Not while I was watching ironranger.
This isn’t getting enough attention. This was Romney’s reaction to a question from an African-American man who had his son with him.
The question was about crime in the inner cities, but Romney had to first acknowledge his surprise that an African-American man was actually a loving father. Lucky kid.
solai @ 67
To answer the question, Romney would first need to know something about black-on-black crime, which is how the kid expressed his question.
No healthcare. No presidential powers. No shredding the constitution. All the issues that matter to repubs. Immigration, guns and gays.
don’t forget abortion and death penalty solai
James Joyce @ 43
Actually I can’t find Jefferson saying any such thing about the Second Amendment enabling citizens from rising up against the Constitutionally established government. Anyone who reads the complete text of the Second Amendment and then Reads Article 1 and 2 of the sae US Constitution will see that the purpose of the regulated militias was not insurrection…but the SUPPRESSION of insurrection.
In fact Jefferson pointed out that the Amendment was to be used against INVADERS when there was no standing army…and AGAINST INSURRECTIONISTS when used internally. So unless one believes in the total dismantling of the Military, and a shifting to universal conscription into a “well regulated militia”, then one has to accept that the militias have been “regulated” into a standing army and the respective state National Guards.
In addition, it’s hard to see how Jefferson was an absolutist in this. He clearly accepted Congressional authority to regulate what the form of the militia would be. He accepted some forms of permanent military forces, particularly naval forces and a special force of Marines.
But Jefferson was quite specific that, in his vision, almost everyone would be compelled to be eligible for service in the militia, but that the militia would be subject to the regulation, training and discipline established by Congress. There would be NO UNREGULATED MILITIA.
And even in the times that the Framers lived not everyone served, or was allowed to bear arms. Officials were excused, as were those with pacifist religious convictions. Felons and the mentally ill were not mustered. Nor were those who participated in the Shay’s Rebellion allowed to bear arms for several years. Several were executed for participating in disrupting the Vermont legislature, establishing their own version, and attacking the Federal Courts and its officers.
Jeffersons view of militias (and the Constitutional one under Article 1) would mean that every individual eligible for the militia would be placed under the command of officers established by the States. They would be registered, as would their arms. The arms would be for military purposes, likely maintained in an armory (in fact, where most weapons were stored in Jefferson’s day), or if in service carefully controlled by those on duty.
Jefferson remarked after the Shay’s and Whisky Rebellions that threatened the United States from what many felt were undisciplined tax-avoiding rabble that the calling up of such militias and the deaths of those that served in them might be a necessary component of a post-Revolutionary United States.
“The tree of liberty must be from time to time refreshed with the blood of patriots and of tyrants. It is its natural manure.”
I’m beginning to loathe Romney. Personally. Whatever happened to the push-polls about Mormonism? Did he do that to himself?
You got it all wrong. Rudy was meeting and doing business with associates of bin Laden because he was using his God Given American initiative and know-how on a counter intelligence operation. Can you really find fault with that?
And, as far as billing various government agencies for his extra-marital work, he needed to provide cover for his black op activities. The secret communications command center was in a cave below Judy Nathan in the Hamptons.
Think of it this way, Mr. T and the A Team didn’t always work on official government “sanctioned” operations. But, they got the job done didn’t they?
just this second on CNN, Roberts the tool fed Rudy his spin–”is it a hit job, coming 2 hours before the debate?”
unbelievable.
And apparently WaPo didn’t even cover it today–in favor of another Obama rumor story on their front page.
amberglow @ 74
ah, the state of media today!
Every time I begin to despair, they have a gooper debate. This is a pathetic group. When a looney hillbilly creationist comes across with the most gravitas, I begin to believe the election is “democrat” proof.
Good Morning
With the country failing and the people worried the Repugs spoke only of who the would torture and kill and how they would strip rights from women. It was puerile and disgusting and no, I didnt watch it all.
did you see any of the post debate? I especially liked the woman in the “undecideds” who said if the Democrats nominate Edwards she would vote for him….there has been no additional reporting on that..
so for undecided republicans the only mind that was changed by the debate is to vote for a Democrat
moondancer @ 76
As someone who has watched their football team come up with more and more innovative ways to give away a football game they seemed to be winning, I don’t believe any election can be “democrat” proof.
katherine Graham Cracker @ 78
Crooks & Liars has it:
Post-Debate: Undecided GOP Voter Leaning Towards Edwards
…have John Edwards, I’d vote for John Edwards.” … “I had thought about Giuliani, I had thought about Mitt Romney, also Fred Thompson. I don’t care for his TV shows but you know, I thought maybe him being an actor that was just a persona and it’s not.” I’ll take a wild guess that wasn’t exactly the answer any of the GOP contenders wanted to have …
This morning Salon has two articles about the last night’s debate:
The god-awful GOP debate (Walter Shapiro)
What you missed while watching “Chad Vader” (Michael Scherer)
Haven’t read them yet, but will most likely do so a little later on.
katherine Graham Cracker @ 78
He’s really the only one in either party with a populist message. I am amazed he’s getting so little traction w/ the economy spiraling.
moondancer @ 82
Hmm… wonder if there’s a reason the MSM is given him little to no coverage?
cinnamonape @ 37
And I thought it was the CIA that liked to fund things through drug trafficking. Silly me.
TexBetsy @ 58
Abolish the IRS. Free men unable to defend rights and liberties protected by law and won by blood are not free when tyranny in government deprives people the tools to defend those rights and liberties. Ask anY “German Jew” still alive who recollects the laws passed in germany, depriving Jews the ability to defend themselves from the tyranny of the NAZI Regime!!!!!!
moondancer @ 82
Did you see Romney trash Edwards for his ‘2 Americas’ theme. Romney (paraphrased) “How dare he say that there are 2 Americas. This is one country, united, and we don’t need such divisive remarks” Very Rove-like.
i’ll see y’all later today. have a good Thursday my friends
TexBetsy @ 80
If I was a dem strategist, I’d be very pleased with last night. The theme seemed to be: we are fringe elements, and we are incompetent.
solai @ 72
The National Review suggested as much, but the Romney camapign denies it…sort of. They said that they have never used a “push-poll” that would harm their candidate, and they pointed out that the Polling Group supposedly used actually had several other candidates associated with it.
So let’s parse.
1) Romney’s campaign never denied that they used “push polls”.
2) They never denied that they obtained a “push poll” from this polling group.
3) While they denied that they would use a “push poll” that would harm their candidate, it’s clear that this was a subterfuge that, if revealed, would NOT harm their candidate. In fact it would gain sympathy and could be used to spread accusations against OTHER campaigns. So it wouldn’t hurt Romney at all. It would help.
Get rid politicos and science comes back in the door. From the Raw Story
AZ Matt @ 90
Now if they can give similar protections to minority voters….
I only watched the briefest of portions of the GOP debate, and even that small segment had my blood boiling. So I switched back to MSNBC and waited for Olbermann’s show to return from its commercial break.
Yes, I’d rather watch annoying advertisements than listen to the GOP hopefuls try to out-conservative each other.
I remember when the most dangerous part of Republicanism was trickle -down economics. Now, in case you didn’t notice, immigrants are to blame for everything from 9/11 to unemployment to everything else.
Osama is being equated with immigrants.
Here’s something I don’t quite get. Republicans are quite happy to let companies move their operations overseas and avoid paying taxes, but immigrants in this country are illegal and should be herded up and shipped out because they’re responsible for ruining our economy?
A co-worker of my spouse tells the health care cost story of his wife’s cancer illness & death. The total cost was about $1.2 million. Insurance did pay for most but there was $30,000 left for him to pay, final bill. The hospital had a lock put on his savings account, He said to them, let’s get down to the nittygritty here, adjust crap like the $9 for one t&len0l pill, etc, take the lock off my savings account & get this done. The person he dealt with said give me about 3 hours to go through it. He ended up paying $22,000.
What a nightmare for millions of us & no questions on health care costs in that pathetic debate? What kind of idiots would vote for ANY republican?
Yes, 9/11 made Rudy-G commit high infidelity. As for the woman scorned, you pays yer money and you takes yer choice, but hell has no fury, yada-yada. I think Rudy-G said that.
James Joyce @ 85
Ah…someone from the Church of Pope Ron Paul, I presume.
The Jews of Germany were first decitizenized. Kind of like those kids that Ron Paul wants to take away citizenship from.
Then the gun laws which were fairly restrictive during the democratic Weimar Republic, were EXPANDED for German Citizens. Germans were, in fact, broadly brought into militia like movements. Almost every healthy adult German was armed, as were many young individuals toward the end of the war. Non-Citizens and criminals” (read S*c*alists, Communists, Unionists, Anarchists, and enemies of the state) were the ones who were not allowed weapons.
And the idea that if the Jews only had guns they would have been able to avoid the Holocaust ignores the widespread level of anti-Semitism and methods the Nazis used to keep the Jews culturally isolated. Even in Poland the anti-Semitism of many in the resistance led to the Jews lacking weapons.
And by your argument, in situations where there are widespread availability of guns, there should be freedom. Lebanon, Baghdad after the US invasion, much of Central Africa, Somalia, and innumerable other places where guns are readily purchased on the black market and supplied to even children belies the idea that the “more guns” the more liberty”.
i saw chunks of the debate, and gotta say that regardless what you think of his positions, huckabee came off very well.
when rudy was asked about running on 9/11, he denied that he was, then used “september 11, 2001″ at least four times in his answer.
what was THAT all about — why was he using the year, like we’d forgotten? really annoying.
AZ Matt @ 90
…because she had pressured them to change the designation of a species found on her land. Sometimes she did not pressure. She just changed that statistics in the report.
And don’f forget her sharing internal documents with her on-line friend she met in a chat room who turned out to be…
no, not a terrorist.
just a twelve year old.
More seriously,
IANAL but can AL tell us if we can bring taxpayers suits to recover the costs for abuse of taxpaid services, federal (typed feral first) or municipal=, i.e. can NY recoup its costs for Rudy’s
ruttingrunning around security in tow?Republicans didn’t want to let Hitler reappear in the guise of Sadaam, but they’re quite happy to use the techniques of Hitler in scapegoating the Jews for all of Germany’s problems, blaming the immigrants for everything.
Ironranger:
“What kind of idiots would vote for ANY republican?”
Idiots who put the price of gasoline, before the constitutions. Selfish individuals intellectualy inept and morally compromised. Dysfuntional losers who in the daily constructs of business do not pratice what they preach. People wishing to commit suicide by means of a slow death painful death???? Just like ROME!!!!
‘morning, all…. coffee is ready – hold out your cups…
Why do Bubbas vote for ‘divas?’
What I have never understood is how red state Bubbas, both those with guns and pickup trucks and their metaphorical kin, the socially angry anti gay working folks, could have voted into office a guy who participated in the manly arena of organized sports as a cheerleader.
Rah, rah,”Give me an A”, all neatly gussied up in matching outfits. Come on guys, give me a break.
Now we have Rudi who all Bubbas know is the epitome of water-boarding, bring-em-on toughness. His 911 machismo has been sold and shouted and dramatized from sea to shining sea. Given that he adores and glitters amidst drama and pathos, it is of course consistent that as an opening act of this fearsome charismatic leader he would form and lead an opera club as his great social engagement in high school.
Consistently, perhaps, he disclosed to the world that he was seeking to divorce his wife (she hadn’t been informed, oops) while the enticing cameras and microphones captured his news. Consistently, perhaps, he withdrew from the potentially world changing opportunity to serve his nation on the Iraq Study Commission to lined his pockets while delighting audiences eager to hear the dramatic hero speak.
I mean guys, enough with the performances.
And I’m not saying that belting out librettos with large women in clanking armor is not particularly manly but it does set my dog a howlin.
today is the day the “steal CA’s electoral votes” initiative petition must be turned in…
gonna be interesting.
cognitiorex – I read thru lgf’s live blogging thread last night and I don’t think they are buying Rudy’s tough guy act…
OldCoastie @ 103
I was just going to ask you if you had an update for us.
and thanks to you, it will be interesting!
all I can say is these guys are mobilizing their base
is their base enough?
we’ll find out…whoever wins will run an anti hillary campaign or an anti edwards anti socialism campaign
they will also use the phrase “entitlement” program
we MUST counter whenever they use the word “entitlement” with INFRASTRUCTURE
that’s the key to winning that discussion, turn every program they claim is “entitlement” to an infrastructure program
THEN
when they talk about “tax breaks” or “tax reductions” WE call THAT “entitlement programs” and WE CHALLENGE them with;
“why would you destroy our infrastructure?…to satisfy your campaign contributers?”
and then the followup;
“you and me can work together on real tax incentives, we will give have tax “investments” for struggling industry and for industry we need to develope like getting this country off of it’s petroleum addiction”
man, they will drop their jaws
and we will go on;
“you and I can work together getting tax incentives back to the middle class, the working class, too much of their assets have been given to the peeople that will never re invest back into AMERICA”
MAN, the republicans heads would explode if we started using THEIR terms to PROVE it’s the democrats that are for all they make believe they are for
The Anchorage Assembly rejected a proposed city ordinance on Tuesday night that would have required people pulled over for any reason, or questioned by police for any reason to show proof of citizenship. The vote was 8 to 3. The MSM didn’t cover it until today, but I wrote about it yesterday, throwing firedoglake’s love for Ann Coulter (snark advisory) into the mix.
Elliott – I have not seen a single petitioner for over a week now…
aha, perris used a few words that triggered the filter at 108…could a mod release please?
thanx in advance and off to work
OldCoastie @ 107
Hmm I wonder why that is ;)
it’s like you singlehandledly thwarted them
Ed*ard Teller @ 107
Good work and great to see you, but isnt it like 4.30 in the morning there?
did rudy put pepper spray on mitt’s dress
http://www.sfgate.com/columnists/asmussen/
Elliott @ 109
HA! that’d be fun, but I think all the attention they drew may have had an effect on their methods… I also think their workforce may not have been all that enthusiastic about working thanksgiving weekend.
egregious @ 111
ET probably only gets 4 hours of sunshine now. *g* It was a good post.
AZ Matt @ 90
Here’s a link for that story EPA Reverses “Flawed” Endangered Species Designation Cancellations
Among the decisions to be revised is the agency’s 2006 determination to scale back critical habitat for California red-legged frogs from more than 4 million acres to about 450,000 acres.
The other species were the red-legged frogs, Arroyo toads, Canada lynx, Hawaiian picture-wing flies and Preble’s meadow jumping mouse, white-tailed prairie dogs, and the Delta splittail. The latter showed MacDonald was “extensively and intimately” involved in the final editing process and e-mailed officials that “concerns with it are monumental.” She made more than 500 changes to the document, adding language that made a stronger case for delisting the fish.
The delisting would have affected the value of an 80-acre farm that she and her husband owned in the Sacramento Delta wetlands. According to financial disclosure reports filed by MacDonald, the farm she bought with her husband, Charles, in 1990 is now worth more than $1 million and the family received $100,000 to $1 million in income from it last year.
Findings of these conflicts of interest, as well as delistings affecting the business interests of friends and colleagues were presented to the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, who declined to prosecute. Because MacDonald has resigned, and the USAG has declined to prosecute, the inspector general said no further action is expected.
“The IG report shows that Julie MacDonald came to her job with an axe to grind, that she failed to recuse herself from critical decisions in which she had clear conflicts of interest, and that she escaped punishment for those hidden conflicts by sneaking out the back door. To this day, not one of her supervisors in the Administration has been held accountable for her misconduct.” said Rep. George Miller of Martinez.
The Center for Biological Diversity filed six lawsuits earlier this month and intends to file another dozen through December. They expect to contest a total of 55 delistings total. This “scandal goes beyond the seven or eight species),” said CBD director, Kieran Suckling. “This is just damage control. Their intent is not to deal with what MacDonald was doing. Their intent is to limit the scope of the damage….This is not some rogue agent. These are people whose job was to squash science.”
egregious @ 111
I’m up early to write an exam, grade some essays and write an article about the new poll showing Diane Benson creaming Don Young.
ET and OC rock!
Ed*ard Teller @ 116
Ok, that’s a happy reason to be awake! Blue Alaska, Blue Virginia…etc etc
cinnamonape @ 115
Oooops! Why Did I put “Flawed” into Quotes…IT WAS FLAWED. No quotation marks required.
ACCCKKK! Didn’t I just point out the use of “quotation marks” indicating snark about a week ago? Then I go misuse them!
Duh!
James Joyce@100:
Oh yes, those are the ones with most of their soul missing. However, it’s the people I know who have consciences & are pretty normal caring people who can’t seem to comprehend or refuse to believe they have been conned. Or they can’t let go of their hero worship. Or they are in complete denial. Or they are too scared to find out. Or they are too lazy & would rather let fox tell them what to believe.
On turkey day my husband said the wealthy republicans are just fine with everything so why would they care about health care costs & everything else that is wrong. My republican brother-in-law didn’t say a word.
cinnamonape @ 119
Welcome to the human race. If you never make any mistakes, it means you’re not trying enough new stuff.
She DID! They have withdrawn the Initiative!!!!
http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_j.htm
WHooooooHoooooo! OldCoastie RULES!!!!!
BOOYAH Old Coastie!!!!
[We borrowed some of CTuttle’s exclamation marks for the occasion]
OldCoastie @ 103
ironranger @ 120
Was this a change in behavior for him? Guess what I’m tryin’ to say is, in the past would this b-i-l have defended them?
cinnamonape @ 121
YEA! Yea! YEAAAAA!
Go OldCoastie. Fabulous outcome!
The CA news is the best of the day – SO FAR!
attack, Attack, ATTACK, ATTAACCCKKKK!!!!!
eCAHNomics @ 126
well, that was an awful good one to turn back…
Ed*ard Teller @ 106
And precisely HOW will they prove citizenship? social security card? Carry birth certificates everywhere?
Didn’t read the entire thread, but here’s my Q on last night’s debate. It seems to me, on reflection, that the ‘librul’ CNN went out of its way to choose Qs to make the Rs seem like “gun fetishists, flat worlders, Mars Explorers, Confederate flag lovers and zombie-eyed-Bible-wavers” to quote KDrum. Agree? Disagree?
OldCoastie @ 126
Snoopy Dance for Old Coastie!
Doing my Snoopy Dance!
Also the “Elimination of Domestic Partnerships” failed to get enough signatures! Wonder if the same people were collecting for both and the bird-dogging got people to start looking at what they were signing under the rubber band.
OldCoastie said they were asking for FOUR Signatures so there must have been other initiatives that they were trying to “stealth through”. They’d put the Child’s Healthcare one on top and three nasty ones underneath.
Wonder what the third one was?
eCAHNomics @ 130
the lgf thread seemed to think Hillary chose all the questions… hard for me to tell… I thought they asked a lot of questions about stuff the R’s had been campaigning on…
“elimination of domestic partnerships” was not one of the 3 stealthy ones on the clipboards that I saw… I don’t think they had the money for that.
Toby Wollin @ 130
Don’t all Alaskans carry passports? How do they get into America? (Snark, snark, snark!)
But maybe they are wanting proof of Alaskan citizenship? I heard they actually get paid by the government up there…no taxes. So you can see that they would want to keep the “Lower 48′ers” out.
As a former NYPD captain I can state categorically that Rudy’s security detail consisted of supervisors and detectives from the NYPD Intelligence Division which falls under the Police Commissioner’s Office on the org chart. Their overtime requests were processed through the NYPD’s Payroll Management System coded for the PD.
Any other charges to other agencies were improper and were specifically designed to avoid shedding light on his extramarital affair.
Good Job by all who worked to put an end to the vote grab in Caifornia. I noticed the signature gatherers gone from most of the usual areas up here once the fraud campaign had been announced…..
(here is Western Sonoma County)
OldCoastie @ 134
That’s the alternative explanation. That the Qs they selected were representative of the Qs they received. Still, the Qs seemed pretty wingnut to me. Hard to believe that they didn’t get more middle of the road ones. Of course, there’s a self-selection process going on. The ones who cared enough to prepare a video would obviously be more on the fringe.
Which would make for another interesting distinction between the Rs and the Ds. The D YouTube debate Qs were much saner. If they, too, came from the ‘fringe,’ it would mean the D-fringe is middle of the road, while R-fringe is lunatic. I believe that would support the consensus here at FDL.
james @ 137
Send an email to talk at talkingpointsmemo dot com. Josh is trying to dig into the way the payments were hidden.
howdy james!
it’s great to get the straight inside info, thanks.
eCAHNomics @ 131
Went out of it’s way? Maybe the other submissions were actually WORSE!
But it might be good to challenge CNN on this point so they have to post a bunch of the others on line to show that they actually were “representative” ;-)
But on the flip side…I doubt that Grover Dorquist sent in 4000 submissions so that his one just happened to be randomly drawn!
Y’all want to see something hilarious? Here is our gubmint, issuing RFP’s (requests for proposal) for “Cultural and Human Environmental Analysis” in order to understand why brown peoples dislike our bombing the shit out of them so much.
SCOPE
GENERAL
The contractor shall perform research and analysis on Arabic and Islamic culture and other environmental factors that influence and/or foster terrorism in the US Central Command Area of Responsibility (AOR). The AOR countries include; Afghanistan, Bahrain, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lebanon, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Seychelles, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, and Yemen, as well as transnational issues.
REQUIREMENTS
Topics of Analysis and Studies
Jihad Support Networks
Foreign Fighter/ Suicide Bomber Problem Set
Islamic and Arabic Culture and Religion
Sharia, Hanabali, Hanafi, Maliki and Shafii schools of law
Islamic religious philosophies including Salafism and Wahabism.
Islamic and Arab society culture and decision-making methodologies within ethnic and leadership groups
Assessments of key Islamic leaders, scholars, clerics, facilities (including mosques, madrassas, and universities) tribes, sub-tribes, clans and their relationships to each other and other external entities inside and outside the host nation. This would include preferences, biases, leanings, and tendencies toward extremism.
Likely Bidders
ARINC, DRS Technologies, Lockheed Martin Corporation (LMCO), URS (w/EG&G Tech Services and LSI)
Estimated Value: $3,400,000
cinnamonape @ 136
LOL for the first part. For the second part, we’ve paid over $7K in in-state taxes and “user fees” this year. As to the PFD – permanent fund dividend – would you rather, like local libertarians and big oil advocates – that money got to Houston, Oklahoma City, and London oil company coffers?
The Rethugs are scr*wed in California now! OC didn’t abandon the ship and the rats had to run!
Not sure how many here are familiar with BBSpot–which bills itself as a “geek humor” site. I check it every day when I can remember. They have a “daily links” feature where they link to external pages that are funny, bizarre or cool, and they also have some original content. Usually parody pieces.
Since one of today’s pieces is about Facebook, I thought I’d share it here…
Facebook Sending Apology Gifts to Users Over Privacy Concerns
Ed*ard Teller @ 115
I know this has probably occurred to others before me, but while reading your piece, it struck me strongly that the situation with journalism is sort of like the whole discussion about early mammels taking over niches while the dinosaurs were dying off. Those of us who actively blog, and put stuff together, and make the connections, and get the information, and use our local contacts and actually put the information OUT THERE – that’s the real genuine journalism now.
I was at Newhouse School of Public Communications in the mid-70s and on the journalism side, there was all of this discussion about “people who end up in PR being schills and that is a lower form of life”. Now, this was in the midst of the Watergate situation and there were a lot of young people (ahem) who were all fired up to be “real journalists” – some of them are still out there, I’m sure, but a lot of them have become the people they despised 30 years ago.
Oh goodie. I’m going to apply. Here’s my analysis: You bomb me, shoot me, I no like you. You provide schools, shelter, food, other services (e.g., Hizballah), I like you. $3.4 million in my bank account.
Never have understood why people find foreign policy so complicated.
Yesterday after hearing Jonathan Turley on Randi Rhodes, I thought all day about our own Dems selling us and the Nation out.
Here is Turleys quote from Raw Story
Regarding the question selection by CNN:
If those were some of the more centrist questions they could find, what the hell did they have to throw out?
Also, several topics were conspicuously missing; the mortgage meltdown comes to mind immediately.
cinnamonape @ 121
CITIZEN ACTION AT ITS FINEST! OC Delivers.
Hucksterbee’s humor is not funny!
hucksterbee humor –did he tell the same joke to Terri’s family?
Today on the way up here Matt Mayberry [Dover City Councilor] was driving us. He was telling us about a lady here that had hosted her uncle who had come into New Hampshire for a visit. Kind of a tragic story. He came to visit his niece and while there had a heart attack, and they had to take him to the hospital. They got him to the hospital and after a few minutes the doctor came out and says well ma’am I need to tell you that here’s the situation with your uncle. His brain is dead, but his heart’s still beating. The niece grabbed her cheek and said oh my we’ve never had a Democrat in the family before. [laughter]. I could only get away telling that out of state at a Republican gathering. [applause].
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/200…..05spt.html
Ed*ard Teller @ 144
hell no.
although, i suppose i’d actually like to see it go to building infrastructure to support the local economy for when there is no more PFD. (things like education, communication, etc).
but as we all know, that would be subject to a “tax cut” and the money would end up in big oil’s hands. given that political reality, i do think that the PFD is the best way to make sure that the people of alaska benefit – because it creates it’s own base of policy support (everyone who gets a check).
waccanmaw@125:
No change really. Sis & bro in law are both repub & have made remarks in the past but quickly change the subject when rebutted. In his 1st election he could vote, he voted for Nixon & boy did he get get heckled by the family (most dems). Bro’s dem 89 yr old dad doesn’t hesitate to talk politics to him but bro just stays very quiet when dad is ranting. I don’t think either bro or sis see or believe the depth of depravity of the R party or think dems are worse. Koolaid is so insidious.
Thunderbird @ 150
Good catch on the mortgage issue. There were some Qs on the economy, but somehow they weren’t memorable.
snowbird42 @ 149
Don’t you love how our Democratic leaders like to shirk their constitutional obligations? Oh, it is so much easier to let the country go down the tubes because, you know, we can’t be looking “petty” bringing impeachment up before our big 2008 elections. It is enough to make you puke. Now, if they were bringing impeachment up over lying about a BJ I would agree that would be petty. But ignoring the possibility of committing federal crimes?????? Who are the brilliant strategist advising our Dem leaders?
james @ 137
Thanks james! What are the odds that someone from within the Department will blow this wide open in the next few days. It would seem to me that these folks couldn’t have done this financial juggling internally via the Department. Yet the blame seems to be directed that way. But that’s ridiculous. The NYPD accountants couldn’t have shifted the accounts without an order from above.
Only the security detail, his drivers, or Guiliani’s inner staff would have known what Rudy was doing here. That means the ones to shift the accounts had to be done by the Mayor’s Office.
I expect someone in the NYPD to come out on this. The signatures of the security team are likely there on the credit card transactions for gas and hotels. Requests for reimbursements. And their duty logs on the days of the weekend trysts. And we’ll find out what that trip down to Florida was all about, as well.
Rudy better get his “Omerta” team up to NYC right away with lots of flash!
Toby Wollin @ 152
This is such good news for CA, & I needed some this morning. Your tenacity & leg work paid off, Old Coastie. Congrats :-)
Never have understood why people find foreign policy so complicated.
Oh, it’s simple. So war profiteers such as Lockheed Martin and URS can keep raking in the cash.
IrishJim @ 156
But it is their duty to bring hearings. And not finding the crime doesnt work for me!
He said that they have a deal with the White House. A deal?!!!!
Sounds like a Larry Flynt investigation.
snowbird42 @ 149
and here i was thinking that the dem leadership was trying to protect the telcos…. when they are actually trying to protect bushco.
just shoot me in the face. (*)
[Mod: let’s not go there, please?]
* dear mods, the reference to violence is not meant literally (see atrios)
james @ 136
thank you.
I would love to have Turley on FDL. He was amazing on Randis show.
james @ 137
Thank you James!
Henry Hyde has died. Didn’t know he was sick.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/n…..lert_6.php
On a completely different note, Dick Wilson, whose pic is featured above, was a neighbor of mine once upon a time. Used to see him @ the pharmacy & we struck up a conversation over Toronto, a city we both loved. Among other topics we discussed vaudeville, in which he was part of an acrobatic act back in the day.
What a nice guy. RIP Mr. Whipple.
snowbird42 @ 164
i just checked the the randi rhodes podcast on green 960 and the most recent show is from the 26th. will try to give turley a listen when it becomes available… do recall which “hour” he was in?
snowbird42 @ 160
If what he is saying is true, then it appears our Dem leaders are involved in a conspiracy to obstruct justice. Wouldn’t you agree? I know that I also heard that Conyers was threatened by Pelosi to be removed from his committee chair position if he pursued impeachment hearings. This is sounding more and more like a conspiracy to me.
War On War Off @ 143
How the hell do any of those bidders have the capacity to undertake such research? ARINC is a Transportation and Telecommunication Technology Group. Lockheed Martin??? DRS Technologies make airborne weapons sensory platforms?
This would have been something that the Rand Corporation might have done BEFORE the war. They actually might have obtained generalized (anonymous) information about causation of terrorism from University Islamic studies and Anthropology programs. The literature is probably out there. But do they really want to hear and understand it? The CIA has already told the Bush Administration that they created conditions that FOSTER terrorism.
I’m sure the CIA has analysts doing just this sort of work. But I don’t see any way that Lockheed Martin would be qualified to do this. It would be more money down the rat-hole.
IrishJim @ 169
yes.
eCAHNomics @ 166
I looked him up on Wikipedia, and he was 83 years old. Could’ve been natural causes.
cinnamonape @ 156
I’m a reformed accountant (went through the 12-step program – I don’t shake when I have to use a calculator anymore)and I’ve worked both government side and private side. I can tell you that in order to have gotten those charges assigned to other departments, someone in a supervising capacity had to have signed the chit and written right on the thing which department or account codes these charges would be assigned TO. For “separation” purposes, that usually means this process: the person who made the charges personally (in this case, Giuliani) would staple all the back up to the expense report and it would go to an Accounts Payable person (or there might be someone in another dept. who would assign the account code and then it would go to the AP person) and that AP clerk would put it in the system for reimbursement or whatever. In order for this to go to the wrong department means that either a) Giuliani subverted his own governmental accounting agency by assigning his own account codes, in which case, he purpetrated a fraud on the system – but he still would have had to have had the collusion of other people lower down the food chain – the AP clerk for example, and perhaps also the internal auditors if they saw this mis-assignment and went along with it), or b) Giuliani did not do it himself, but had pre-arranged for this sort of thing to happen, in which case, again, he had to have had the collusion of others and perhaps money was changing hands and so on.
In either case, there are multiple layers of people who will be able to testify as to the process, conversations, direct orders to assign accounts and who those orders came from..they will be able to follow the money all the way to Rudy.
New York City is NOT a Mom and Pop Grocery Store – unless someone has been erasing or corrupting financial records (and forensics accountants will be able to find that), the whole breadcrumb trail will be there.
Mornin’ All
This is OT and I don’t know why I find it so funny, but there’s an article over at HuffPo with the title, “Joe ‘Patsy’ Klein”…maybe it’s just me. :)
cinnamonape @ 170
hahaha. turns out they weren’t. robert pape (u of chicago) found that out when he did his initial research.
Cinnamonape,
$400,000 for the actual research, $3,000,000 profit for well-connected beltway bandits.
It’s an old story. I mean, who could object to such important research during A Time Of War?
Thunderbird @ 172
Time flies. Didn’t realize he was so old. Thanks.
selise @ 168
The first hour. She has a great rapport with him and he has much to say. But this was amazing.
TW @ 173
You should also send an email to talk at talkingpointsmemo dot com to help Josh & his crew dig into this.
Marie Roget @ 167
I read somewhere that he was a pilot in the RAF during WWII. Also, trying to explain “Mr. Whipple’s” cultural signifigance to my 14-year old made me feel like my dad must’ve felt explaining Sinatra to me at the same age.
Toby,
Thanks for the input on the article. You’re right about the combination of evolutionary and revolutionary environment.
selise,
And you’re right about the AK PFD creating a constituency environment. That’s the worst thing about it. The fund comes out to be about as much per capita as is the Norwegian version of the PFD.
I dont know what to make of this and Im surprised.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. endorses Clinton
Thunderbird @ 172
Chi Sun Times:
More on Turley’s Randi Rhodes appearance from Arthur Silber:
http://powerofnarrative.blogsp…..ou-so.html
snowbird42 @ 178
thanks! will try to remember to keep an eye out for it. sounds like something i should give a listen to.
on the “to listen to” list today is wes clark (brian lehrer show)- based on eCAHNomics comments yesterday.
I think my favorite quote so far is from New York Rep. Peter King via Faux News:
Cheating on your spouse isn’t improper? Must be more of that famous GOP morality.
off and running – have a good one!
Ed*ard Teller @ 181
my bold.
why is that bad?
OT:
The culture of corruption continues inside the GOP circle: Lott’s Brother-in-law and Nephew indicted for Bribery
Was it just co-incidental that Lott announced his retirement on Monday and on Tuesday his brother-in-law and nephew are indicted by the Feds? Repub’s will go to any length to get their hands on some money, huh?
Whining going on upstairs:
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..uts-whine/
RickinSF @ 180
Don’t know about the RAF, Rick, we mostly talked showbiz. Explaining who Mr. Whipple is to my 24 yr. old will probably be just as problematic unless she’s seen him on VH1’s I Love the 60s,70s,80s etc. shows…
Blue Texan’s upstairs.
Republicans Debate, Wingnuts Whine
IrishJim @ 189
Another story this a.m. that made LOL. Read the indictment. What a hoot!
selise @ 188
Because candidates are compared on who will best “protect the fund.” I’m glad it is there, but its existence throws the use of any large revenues the state pulls in from oil exrtraction fees into a strange twilight zone. Hard to explain, but whenever the “future of the fund” comes up, the wingnuts have been able to control the course of the debate in the past.
Ed*ard Teller @ 144
Ahh!I was wrong about “no taxes”…that’s just a common meme down here in the lower 48. Maybe the Alaskans I meet say “no State income Tax, we get money back!”
But did you REALLY think that I meant that Anchorage was actually considering checking into State Citizenship? It was a joke! I didn’t realize that the whole PFD thing was such a sensitive issue that Alaskans get their hackles up to defend it.
It was like how Northern Californians want to secede from the Southern Californians, and Oregonians wants immigration posts set up to issue everyone from California tourist visas. And Washingtonians wants to do the same to everyone South of their borders, preferably limited to 5-Days and a 500 meter zone around the Pike Street Market!
But even if I was taken seriously I’m not sure how my comments would be suggesting that the money go to Houston, OK City or London? I was specifically referring to the idea that Anchorage might be checking to see if INDIVIDUALS might be from such tropical areas as Spokane, Reno, or Yreka. Don’t know how that would create the flow of PDF money to those other places you speaketh of.
Ed*ard Teller @ 194
ahh… yes, i see how that’s a problem.
i was just thinking that absent the fund, the potential state revenues from oil extraction would all go to big oil.
snowbird42 @ 182
Cinton-Kennedy 2008? It has a certain ring…
egregious @ 176
Agreed, it smells as if it’s simply a way of giving money away to corporate cronies. Absolutely no oversight. And no examination of qualifications. I don’t think any of those groups have the capacity to do the even do the actual research.
And I hate to say it…the USG wants identities of these possible terrorists and their “facilitators”. The problem is that this would take a lot more than $3.4million as it would require actual on-site intel from within the organization. It would be very dangerous to authentic informants. And it would be subject to being used to pinpoint personal enemies by charlatans…or just giving the contractor “what they want to hear” for cash. There would be no way to doublecheck for a single-sourced set of information. And yet the USGH wants to investigate scores of groups, sects, and legal systems of Islam, etc. The scope is immense in terms of countrys and cultures.
You’ll get nothing for $3.4 million.
selise @ 175
I know they weren’t before the invasion. Bush simply said he wasn’t interested in the internal complexities of Iraqi politics…it was just a bunch of opinions with people disagreeing, according to him.
But I think the CIA started doing something like this afterwards (when it was really too late). Recall the infamous leaked National Intelligence Estimate of last year that excoriated those who “planned” the invasion for actually fostering conditions for at least the next ten years conducive to the expansion of terrorism.
I’ll look up Pape’s study though, sound’s interesting.
Realist @ 186
He should tell THAT to his own wife. “Don’t worry, Joan. I’m just like Rudy…I won’t do anything improper!”
Marie Roget @ 191
Here’s Wiki on Dickie!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Wilson
Yes, Royal (Canadian) Air Force…during WW2. Shot down Stukas, apparently!
cinnamonape @ 157
For the love of Judy. And none of the department heads where the expenses were shifted ever asked, ” Hey mayor what is this?” Just not believable. At least we know RudyCo is ready to take over for BushCo, with the same level of competence
solai @ 86
I guess he would rather not look at the racial divide, the economic divide, voters v. non-voters or any other division in America. Maybe where he just doesn’t get it.
egregious @ 118
Fantastic!
eCAHNomics @ 131
I didn’t see all of the debate, but I don’t understand why Repubs would be upset with this. Aren’t those people their base? Aren’t these the special interest groups they’ve been courting forever?
The only people left out were the uber-Rich and they wouldn’t appear in a debate like that anyway.
egregious @ 176
Once you get hooked on the fear they’re selling, then you’ll pay them anything to make it go away.
Damn the pusherman!