It’s rather shocking to see how discombobulated Time Magazine has become over the whole Joe Klein/FISA debacle. Did they learn nothing from the Washington Post’s Deborah Howell episode? If they thought they could get away with jamming their fingers in their ears and singing “la la la I can’t hear you,” the Chicago Tribune just stuck it to them by printing a genuine correction to the Klein abomination:
CORRECTIONS AND CLARIFICATIONS
A Time magazine essay by Joe Klein that was excerpted on the editorial page Wednesday incorrectly stated that the House Democratic version of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act would require a court approval of individual foreign surveillance targets. It does not.
When I was calling around trying to find out what the editing process at Time was on the piece, I asked several people about how a column actually gets into print there. I’ll spare you the story of everyone sitting around the conference table pitching their ideas (”I think I’ll take the Democrats to task for being lax on national security this week…” “Oh, Joe! Such golden insights…that’s why we pay you the big money…”) and skip right to the part where everybody in the building is worried about the right wing beating them up for being too liberal.
This is a Very Serious Concern for the editorial class at Time Magazine. On the other hand, liberals such as ourselves calling out Klein for being wildly inaccurate and a dupe for Republican hacks (as well as his vanity-soaked editors, who won’t allow the magazine to acknowledge the mistake even after Klein did so himself) are considered a giant pain in the ass. It does, however, accommodate everyone’s desire to shrugs their shoulders, pat themselves on the back and conclude that if they’re being criticized by both sides they’re probably doing everything right. They then retreat to the bar and hope eventually everyone will just shut up and it will all blow over.
There is a systemic problem of perspective here. These critiques are not equal. When Greenwald called out Klein, it was based on his column’s demonstrable factual inaccuracy. Glenn is a noted First Amendment lawyer who has written two books addressing the subject of FISA law. You can’t just dismiss him by calling him a partisan and shrieking until he goes away. His analysis needs to be addressed on a point-by-point basis, and a failure to do so will get you Paul Lukasiak in your comment section.
The right wing, on the other hand, becomes incensed when someone does not subscribe to their narrative and dares to challenge (or even meaningfully question) those in authority. The Pravda-like cheerleading on behalf of the state that this encourages should be highly objectionable to every journalist interested in the perpetuation of a free press, especially since the wingnuts would like to see anyone who does not respond to that authority with basset-like obedience subjected to the annihilation of William Wallace.
Case in point. I’m on the RedState mailing list, and this is the email I got from them today:
Dear RedState Reader:
RedState is calling for CNN to fire Sam Feist, their political director; and David Bohrman, Senior Vice President and Executive Producer of the debate.
During last night’s debate, which CNN billed as “a Republican debate, and the goal was to let Republican voters see their candidates,” CNN either knowingly or incompetently allowed hardcore left wing activists to plant questions and Anderson Cooper willingly gave one of those activists a soapbox so he could harass the Republican candidates about military policy.
Simple googling would have revealed these left wing activists.
Had CNN done its homework, this would not have happened. They either willfully let it happen, or incompetently bungled it. Either way, heads should roll.
Likewise, we hope one or more of the GOP Presidential candidates will call for a do-over debate on substantive policy issues.
You can read our Directors post here.
All the best,
Erick Erickson
Editor, RedState.com
When the Democratic YouTube debates were broadcast, we were delighted by the fact that candidates were being asked honest and tough questions by real people, including right wing gun nuts. Nobody complained, we were happy that the questions weren’t being asked by media hogs who had their own agenda (see Russert, Tim). The fact that the Republicans could not stand up to that kind of discussion, which did not take place within their hermetically sealed world view, was something people predicted at the time. Last night’s embarrassment came not because of liberal questions, but rather because the GOP has an exceptionally poor lineup pandering to an extreme, delusional minority.
The Time Magazine folks can look to these bullies for their journalistic etiquette cues at their own peril. Stenography is certainly the path of least resistance these days, but the copious amounts of alcohol required to obliterate one’s professional pride in the process can be a bit hard on the internal organs.
(graphic by alysheba/millineryman)
Related posts:
- Late Night: DHS’s Right-Wing Extremism Report – Second Verse, Same as the First.
- Franken-Coleman Update: Equal Protection, My Foot!
- Right-Wing Bloggers Relieved to Find Shooting They Can Politicize
- Irrefutable Proof that Holocaust Museum Shooter Wasn’t One of DHS’s “Right-Wing Extremists”
- SCOTUS: Right Wing Objections to Sotomayor in a Nutshell





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Yikes!
RFK Jr. endorses Hillary!!!!
To read…
Jane!
Excellent post Jane. Rather a double standard going on.
I hope they give them a do over.
Paul is no lightweight, either.
Seems like a major move the the right direction to me. Instead of making fun of the guy for wanting gays in the military, they’re taking the blame Clinton/CNN tack. Isn’t that slight movement?
Many years ago in high school and college, I subscribed to “Time”. The other day while in the dentist’s office I picked up a recent edition of this once decent mag. It was more painful to see what Time has become than the actual dental work. It’s really a sad rag now.
katherine Graham Cracker @ 5
Yeah.
flaming brilliant
Oklahoma kiddo @ 8
I agree. Looked one over while waiting for the doc yesterday.
And the MSM print people wonders why they are losing readership?
Loo Hoo. @ 2
That is pretty huge actually.
From TP:
Buchanan Attacks Gay General For Not Having ‘The Courage’ To ‘Come Out’ While Still Serving
During last night’s Republican presidential debate, Retired Brig. Gen. Keith Kerr, an openly gay man, asked the candidates why they “think that American men and women in uniform are not professional enough to serve with gays and lesbians.” Soon after the debate, controversy erupted around Kerr’s question when it was revealed that the general is actually a co-chair of “Veterans and Military Retirees for Hillary Committee” and a steering member of “LGBT Americans for Hillary.”
TexBetsy @ 4
No poop, Betsy!
These are the same whiny a** t*tty babies that complain about how us mean ol fascist DFH FDL lefties want everyone to tow (sic) our line of political correctitude when we ask them to back up their assertions with actual FACTS. I mean, the NERVE of us people!
Honestly, the mental convolutions these folks go through…I’d call them “pretzels for brains” but that would be unfair to pretzels.
FunnyDiva
Yes, LS, and he’s working for her in Iowa. How’s the ‘ol keyboard these days?
i still don’t get it. everyone makes mistakes. what’s the big deal? when the mistake is pointed out (in this case passing on lies without either an attempt at verification – or a warning to the reader that it is unverified and from someone with a conflict of interest)… why not just own up to it and make the correction? why throw a hissy fit, as though the person pointing out the error has no right to do so?
The Time/Klein business is really not a big surprise, however, the WaPo hit piece on Obama was stenography from the most purulent right wing blogs. Have Donald and Fred gone insane?
Loo Hoo. @ 16
I gots a new one!!
I just saw this, and it is OT, but it shows that we are suffering from distraction, while Bushco’s thinkin’ about overthrowing Chavez…intercepted CIA memo:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…../18577/690
Oh, and another thing…
WTF is this??!!!
I thought these people were running for President of the _United States_. As in, Hello?! Not just Most Popular Republican in the United States. As in debates are for _The American People_ to see the candidates?
I hope that’s a mis-characterization by redstate and not CNN’s stated goal for the debate. Because if CNN thinks Republican Debate is the same as Republicans Only Debate, someone should be all over their assets because that’s the sort of blatant crap I expect from Faux News.
Raaaaaawrrrrrr!
FunnyDiva
“Their hermetically sealed world view”
That’s it exactly~
It is always breathtaking with these people. Being leftish in some way means one is not allowed to ask questions of Republicans. This is the logic. The logic of a self-congratulatory “more American than you” freeper? Stunning.
I suppose elections in the future are to involve no interaction at all. Just take your loyalty oath and vote the party. Please don’t speak to, listen to, or even look in the vicinity of the other party’s candidates. And good god, don’t let people of different political persuasions interact, that is totally commie.
The far right has been attacking and successfully intimidating the mainstream media as being too liberal since the mid 1970’s at least. Old hands in the MSM like Joe Klein have thrived in that kind of environment. People like Klein are incapable of changing. What you see is what they are. End of story.
LS @ 19
After ignoring a spew alert or opening a darkblack link?
I just don’t think Grover Norquist just spontaneously sent in a youtube question…and out of the 5000 it just happened to get picked
“so he could harass the Republican candidates about military policy.”
Deservedly so!!!!!!!!!!!
KO is leading with the same story as the post above….
Stock in the NYT hit a 52 week low yesterday.
God delivers messages in mysterious ways.
Keith says, if you can’t handle the democrats, how are you going to handle Al Qaida?
TexBetsy @ 25
OMG…I think it was the Rove’s dad one!!! Ewww….
It’s terrorism, isn’t it? Time is terrified that the White House and the Neoconservative propaganda machine (of which they are a part) will target THEM.
This is a justifiable terror. The authoritarian cult that has seized power wields mighty political and economic clout, and has demonstrated – whether through Max Cleland or John Kerry or Congressman Murtha or anyone you’d like to name – that there are penalties that you experience if you violate the Code.
This is terrorism. And it’s so deeply ingrained that the Time editors themselves can’t even extract themselves from their cultural quagmire to notice how they have capitulated to it.
We need to clearly understand that this is terrorism, and then we need to call for courage. It takes courage for Hollywood’s writers to walk off their jobs for better treatment – so too should Time’s editors walk of THEIR jobs if they understand that their editorial prerogative has been jettisoned out of fear.
It’s going to take individuals willing to sacrifice their careers to make enough of an impact for the culture to awaken to the fact that we’re being terrorized every day by the authoritarian, corporatist culture that has taken over.
Why Robert Kennedy Jr, why?
Bustednuckles @ 6
That’s why you only want him in your comment section if you’ve got your facts straight–to point out to the not-quite-trolls where their “thinking” has gone wrong. At least, that is my impression.
FunnyD
Still RAAWWWRRRRR
snowbird42 @ 32
because it’s all just a game to the privileged.
just a game.
Alvord @ 24
And what the HELL is that supposed to mean?! Just shut up, go away and quit pointing out to lower-information consumers of Time’s/MSMs “oh really, we’re all about news and REAL journalism” shtick?
FunnyDiva
snowbird42 @ 32
Perhaps because she can be counted on not to go too populist on the upper class, by doing things like changing tax codes etc.
Richmond @ 36
the charming eugene mccarthy (i loved the guy) once said, ‘people accuse me of wanting to soak the rich. i merely want to ‘dampen’ them somewhat.’
:-)
Joe Lies…When He Cries
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 37
*g*
McCarthy was the last politician I really liked.
rwcole @ 40
Carter was mine…
rwcole @ 40
Get Clean for Gene! :-)
remember that?
The options in the 2008 elections are vote for a Republican; vote for a Democrat (even if you don’t particularly like the nominee); or stay home. What will you do?
The Kennedy money is notsomuch in the RFK Jr. generation. Jackie O took care of her children in that department, but the rest of the cousins have had to make their own, I think.
Naomi Kline is coming on KO in a bit!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 43
is this an option:
attend the mansion party in the film Eyes Wide Shut and declare the entire affair ‘alienating’ and proceed to conduct ’sensitivity training?’
Oklahoma kiddo @ 8
During my freshman year at the University of Wisconsin, my English teacher had us get a copy of Time and Newsweek, and examine how each used adjectives to slant a story. As a neophyte, this was a major exercise in revelation to me. It is still a good exercise.
Bob in HI
Oklahoma kiddo @ 43
Vote Dem… I will NOT vote for Hill in the Primary… The General is another ball park…
Steve-AR @ 18
Uh oh. Did I miss a WaPo hit piece? I assume this is something other than Novak printing rumors in order to smear both the Clinton and Obama campaigns? Having seen Jane basically accused of writing a hit piece on Senator Obama earlier this week, I’d like to study what a real one looks like…
Thx
FunnyDiva
straight up, no Raaawrrr at you…
selise @ 17
Oh, Selise, Selise, Selise, there you go again. Thinking like a reasonable, thoughtful human being instead of a Good Little Gooper! What are we gonna do with you? /snark
FunnyD
Funnydiva2002 @ 35
Are you drunk?
[Mod Note; snark can be a difficult thing to interpret.]
i saw a bookmark once with a quote from a long time ago.
I ‘think’ it said, ‘the freedom of the press belongs to him who owns one’
MWS, I have one of those white daisy stickers with the blue center from the clean Gene campaign. . .
Loo Hoo. @ 45
For those of us without MSNBC, please keep us updated.
bobschacht @ 47
Bob did ya see the pixs of Kona’s flood yesterday?
http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 42
Remember it? I worked for it. … he was the true leader of the antiwar movement. RFK Sr. opportuned his way in after LBJ withdrew.
Give me Edwards for ‘08. He’s been the true leader this time around.
Demand better, be better.
bg @ 53
CVC
(cool, very cool) :-)
katherine Graham Cracker @ 26
You too? That’s exactly what I thought when someone commented “uh oh…that general is with Hill’s campaign.” As in, yeah? So what? Grover Norquist got his turn on CNN, why shouldn’t “Balance” work _against_ the GOP for a change…
FunnyDiva
Funnydiva2002 @ 49
WaPo0 hit piece on Obama
JPL @ 54
Edwards is on with KO now… Go Edwards…
Remember it? I worked for it. … he was the true leader of the antiwar movement. RFK Sr. opportuned his way in after LBJ withdrew.
Give me Edwards for ‘08. He’s been the true leader this time around.
Demand better, be better.
true. rfk screwed everything up.
I am still impressed with Edwards. Enjoying hearing him talk on KO. I just hope Obama & Clinton destroy each other and Edwards walks away with the nomination.
JoKe Lyin’, channeling Clifford Irving in “Hoax”
Carter was the last, I believe, honest resident of the WH. And may very well be the last honest president to occupy the Oval Office for decades to come.
mccarthy had the guts to take on a ’sitting president’ and when RFK saw it was ‘doable’ he jumped in.
Well, politics is politics I suppose and all is fair in love and blah blah blah but it showed
mccarthy as the truly principled voice.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 64
Unfortunately, you may be right.
That was the year the anti-war faction of the Democratic party took over the ward meetings and got themselves nominated to go to the convention in Chicago. My dad was about 45 then, and he went to Chicago. He was in the streets with the DFHs and got gassed, etc. When he came home, he said he would like to join the SDS. My friends thought my dad was Teh Cool.
Jane writes:
CNN was running an online poll asking if “Regular People” or “The Media” asked better questions.
People: 87%
Media: 13%
TexBetsy @ 62
i like that idea.
dennis is choice number 1 but…..
TexBetsy @ 62
Heh, I’m torn between voting for Edwards, or throwing my vote away and vote DK… ;-)
selise @ 17
I think I figured it out. Atheists think its no big deal to make a mistake, although perhaps regrettable, and fraught with consequences. Catholics know how to deal with mistakes: they just go to Confession, repent of their sins, say a few Hail Marys, and move on. But Evangelical Christians seem to have a problem with confession and forgiveness. Their idea of God seems to be that he(!) is a hard-a**ed SOB that will send you straight to the Bad Place for any mistakes. They need this to be true in order to vilify their enemies, but then it comes around and bites them on their own a**. So they *can’t* admit mistakes, because the consequences are too horrible to contemplate. Now, Joe Klein does not fit this picture by background, but perhaps he has been hanging around the Republican corruptosphere for long enough that he has adopted their attitude towards mistakes.
Bob in HI
bg @ 67
wow.cool dad!
JPL @ 54
Okay, will do.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 69
dennis is my #1 also
Loo Hoo. @ 29
Well, they are really hoping that Al Qaida never asks them any tricky questions…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 43
Vote for the Green Party candidate?
Bob in HI
bg @ 44
I don’t think for one minute that when Bobby was killed his remaining brother and the other people in that family walked away from Ethel without setting up trusts for the kids that made sure they’d be taken care of later in life.
I think the legal work they do is dedicated to higher ideals because they, unlike the Bush spawn, were taught about noblesse oblige and about the fact that we are all affected by what we do for, and to, others. The Bushes will learn this at some point in the future, hopefully within my lifetime.
love the power of positive thinking james
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 46
No. I’m going to have to put my foot down, Mabel. If you don’t vote, you have to stay home. I’m all for sensitivity, but that’s the way it is. ;0)
james @ 77
But, how do you explain Shriver’s marriage to Ahnuld…
In 1958 Edward Albee wrote a one act play called “the Zoo Story.” There was a line in it something to the effect
“Time magazine isn’t for blockheads” It was meant as snark. That was 1958. Nothing has changed.
Been missing you all. Work is taking up far too much of my life right now! How’s tricks?
Hey RevDeb. Great to see you.
CTuttle @ 70
A vote for DK is a vote for Hillary.
Hey RevDeb! Long time no see…! *g*
CTuttle @ 70
Or, maybe you won’t have to and it will be a Edwards/Kucinich ticket.
Texas primary is late enough that my vote probably doesn’t make a difference. Didn’t last time.
CTuttle @ 55
Nope; thanks. We had a good ripping thunderstorm here in Honolulu, with some flooding on the Windward side. I took the precaution of turning my home computer center off, including turning off the power strips.
Not too common to get that kind of rain in Honolulu.
Bob in HI
TexBetsy @ 82
Great to be here at least for the rest of the evening. Starting a new job sure takes a lot of time!
I think the Kennedy family did (does?) place a high value on public service. That service seems to continue.
I like RFK Jr., but I wonder why Hillary? Yes, he is a nice plum for her pudding.
bobschacht @ 76
That would work.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 79
:-)Well okay then!!! :-)
I cant vote anyway being ‘north of the border’ and all.
bobschacht @ 87
Nor, the Kona side for that matter…
TexBetsy @ 78
saw a dr who has written a book on the brain on tv.
maybe five minutes.
he says we can actually ‘will’ our brains to change physiologically by changing our thinking.
bobschacht @ 87
I’m thinking I saw some bits of lightning in the mountains of Oahu maybe five times max in the four years I was out there.
Hi Rev Deb!
I didn’t read blogs when John Kennedy Jr. was killed in the plane accident. Was there any funny business?
Alvord @ 51
I BEG your pardon?
No, I’m pissed only in the American sense, and I don’t recommend you get any closer to insulting me personally in a comment thread.
You need a translation of the above?
Gee, Alvord, I’m not sure exactly how that comment either illuminates or forwards the discussion, care to explain? What exactly is your point? That we should just shut up, go away, etc?
You wonder what set me off?
Alvord:
Yeah? Says who? And who are they?
Yes, I admit it, I intended to shoot a flame–but at the message. Which message, btw, I’ve read at least 100 times at Glenn’s blog an here in regards to this topic. It’s both irrelevant and beaten to death.
Capisce?
FunnyDiva
CTuttle @ 70
i greatly prefer dennis for president, but my best hope given the odds is for edwards. i seriously don’t trust obama and clinton. i highly recommend none of us throwing votes away this election. waaay too much at stake.
my 2 cents.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 89
No, it wouldn’t. Every vote will be important this time – for our future. This is not the time to have protest votes. IMO
I was in junior high when McCarthy ran. I will never forget that the Young Republicans’ contribution to political debate in our school was to take a McCarthy poster (one of those big B&W “Let Us Begin Anew” jobs) and decorate it with “boo” and “chicken” written in giant magic-markered letters. These people are in their fifties now, and they haven’t changed a bit.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 42
Loo Hoo. @ 95
There didn’t seem to be—at least nothing that I remember being reported.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 52
Post 9/11 correlary:
owns one and can stay out of indefinite detention long enough to use it.
FunnyDiva
i think Alvord just meant that guys like joe klein are beyond hope.
Naomi Klein up on KO.
CTuttle @ 70
I will allow enough self triangulation to vote for Edwards if he has a chance at all. (AR primary Feb 5th) Otherwise its all K man for this progressive. End the freaking wars!
dakine01 @ 59
Dakine01, you, well, you da #1 kine! Thanks.
Naomi Kline- Shock producing a profound change. Here, a private military.
Iraq is classic example, shock and awe.
Iraqis would be so shocked they would submit. Bremmer came in and said Iraq is open for business to big business.
Then Abu Garaib
Crisis
Economic
Torture
dakine01 @ 94
Well, there was 2 within about 5 minutes the other day, and I think a third one within a half hour of the others. And they seemed pretty close (i.e., nearby).
Bob in HI
Funnydiva2002 @ 49
The WaPo Bill/Hillary hit piece:
WaPo
Taylor Marshes opinion:
link
Good on the Trib for printing a correction. I emailed them yesterday about Klein’s errors and Holt’s piece on HuffPost.
The Trib’s editorial page is usually known to be pretty right wing, so it’s impressive they did a correction so promptly.
Naomi-U.S. armed corporate takeover of Iraq. Usually called looting.
“Freedom of the press belongs to the man who owns one”
This is a quote of AJ Liebling.
Naomi
It’s called looting. Iraqis responded accordingly.
Keith, the key to responding is knowing about this shock doctrine?
Naomi, yes, if we know how this happens, we can prepare. The next crisis could be economic.
We need to have our ideas lying around.
Over.
Naomi’s a pretty gal!
eCAHNomics @ 110
Heh, Bremer marched in with his Brooks Brothers band and set up shop… ;-0
Pat Robertson vs John McCain vs BillO for WPITW honors.
“The kind of night you wish there weren’t a loser.” KO
Naomi-(paraphrased) “the next shock may well be economic. There are things in the book to prepare us for it.”
Naomi Klein says on Olbermann (talking about Iraq) that people don’t want to turn their countries over to multi-national corporations. Imagine that! Obviously this woman is an atheist, a radical, or a communist or something.
eCAHNomics @ 110
I thought when it involves politics and armies it was called “colonialism.”
Bob in HI
Oklahoma kiddo @ 116
What do Americans want?
Hugh @ 111
thank you.
i googled the guy.
very interesting.
never heard of him before.
The economic shock may have already begun in this country. Forclosures, loss of jobs, fossil fuel inflation, etc.
So the bloggers are having an impact, at least there is some blowback towards MSM that adds up now. Baby steps.
Go Jane and Glenn!!
Loo Hoo. @ 112
check out her background and her husband’s background. very interesting people from interesitng families.
Thanks all for reporting on Naomi’s appearance on KO. We do need to be ready for the next Shock here.
Mabel, got links or info? I have her book, but just got started on it.
Pat Robertson the Bronze – “Yoga is evil”
John McCain the Silver – “Ron Paul type isolationism brought about Hitler”
BillO – WPITW
Interesting tidbit in the Glob:
james @ 77
IIRC, Ethel’s family is old Connecticut money as well, the Skakels. The inheritance probably got thinned out a bit with all the subsequent generations, but I don’t believe any of them are living paycheck to paycheck worrying about paying the house note.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 102
Oh. Oh. Capisce.
OK.
*hangs head, scuffs toe*
And I went off the deep end assuming that there was an unspoken “and therefore we just shouldn’t discuss this any more.”
Sigh. I hate it when I do sh*t like that.
I owe an apology. Sorry Alvord. Pax?
FunnyDiva
Twain @ 98
THIS is why the Greens and even Ralph Nader are looking better:
Bob in HI
It’s okay Funny Diva. Sometimes things don’t come across very well in writing. It’s easier verbally, because we hear intonations and see the facial expressions if we enjoy our gifts of sight and hearing.
Help for Spotlight. My local newspaper, claiming to be the best newspaper in Florida, is not on that list.
The St. Petersburg Times has been until recently, a more or less reliably progressive journal. Because it has such a wide distribution in the metastically growing west central area, it needs to be on the Spotlight list. It ain’t and I can’t see how to make it so.
TexBetsy @ 118
The polls tells us they want ‘change’. And what does that mean? Who knows? Not me. ;0)
bobschacht @ 128
With a Republican prez we have no chance to influence anything. They don’t respond very well to pressure from Dems. If you think the greens are so great, I ask you to take a look at 2000 – go Nader.
Hugh @ 111
Another Liebling gem:
new post upstairs
TheOtherWA @ 109
Good on you for emailing. By the time I read about the re-print, I figured “someone” would have contacted the Trib already. Glad that was the case. Glad one of the someones was a fellow citizen of my adopted home state.
So…at least one “pretty right wing” editorial page/editor doesn’t believe it’s the kiss of death to correct their facts. Interesting. Even if it’s simply because, well, none of _their_ columnists wrote it so they didn’t need to save face by defending it they still did the right thing.
Maybe Glenn et al changed the power equation? Made it clear that the short-term expedient thing to do was, in fact, also the right thing to do? At least in this case?
Interesting.
FunnyD
Democrats line up with Bush on torture
Seattle Post Intelligencer – By Amy Goodman – Nov. 29 (Opinion)
The Democrats had a chance to draw a line in the sand, to absolutely require Mukasey to denounce waterboarding before his elevation to attorney general…
NANCYMANIA!
HARRYMANIA!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 116
Is intellect the word you are searching? *g*
dakine01 @ 125
Let us see, Hitler? Thyssen, Prescott Bush, Herbert Walker and the Harriman’s also helped Adolph.
Naomi Wolf also says that Prescott Bush tried to institute a fascist coup in the United States.
Hypatia @ 131
I’ll send an e-mail to the guy who runs spotlight. I met him at YKos. Good guy.
Loo Hoo. @ 124
this is sort of interesting: http://www.commondreams.org/he…..029-08.htm
here’s some more interesting info on Naomi Klein’s ‘lineage:’
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Klein
Funnydiva2002 @ 128
exhibit A
this is an example of a class act.
please take note mr. joe klein.
madmommy @ 127
and with the homicide trial? BTW, I forget how that turned out.
Bob in HI
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 141
also from democracy now!:
amy goodman interviews naomi klein
naomi klein debates alan greenspan
eCAHNomics @ 83
Plus Kucinich’s friendship/association with Ron Paul is making me really twitchy.
I was looking at a billboard this afternoon
and realized it could be used a a pattern for a political billboard
In case anyone might be interested.
Fern @ 146
is this an ‘actual’ ‘real’ friendship/association?
I’ve heard something mentioned but nothing from ‘the horses mouth’ so to speak…
i dont know why everybody is surprised. time, like its sister cnn is aipac-obsessed and frantically trying to help hillary. duh.
TheOtherWA @ 109
I just emailed them and congratulated them on correcting the ONE error of the three they printed, and urging them to correct the others. We’ll see…
Frank33 @ 139
Naomi Wolf is one of those authors who stirs the coals on the top.
If she stirred the coals from the bottom, she wouldn’t make such ridiculous statements.
I know this is probably a dead thread but the comment from Albatross at 31 is very important and I think that it should be understood that the fear of being targeted is very real and it has also been internalized.
And say that you do stand up to the system.
What do you get? A reputation of being “a trouble maker” who doesn’t “get along” and who doesn’t “get the story” because they pissed off “the players”. Sometimes it’s not blatant, but believe me, the WH lets people know when they are displeased. See Eric Boehlet’s book Lapdogs if you don’t believe me. He documents the exact things that are done by the Rove/Huges White House team to punish or reward people for their questions or stories.
Funnydiva2002 @ 128
Not after the “are you drunk” question, if it were me. That was nasty.
And that is news because why? I wasn’t aware that one is required to be from the same party to ask a question at a debate. Never mind.
To the fainting couches everybody….NOW!! Oh the outrage!!
I read the post without noting who wrote it.
I loved it.
Then I wondered, who wrote it?
What a surprise.
Jane, I don’t know what exactly it is, but your prose gives me faint hope, and if I wasn’t so old, probably a boner.
LOL.
God bless you, keep up the fight, may your health be great, and may you find love and laughter in all you do.
I haven’t heard ‘boner’ in a while.
:-)
‘johnson’ seems to be the word most in use these days.
oh by the way, ever hear about the time ‘Johnson & Johnson met the Smith Brothers and how they got rid of that nasty cough?’
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 157
707!
“Boner” is a “Johnson” with enthusiasm.
Duh.
Get into the ’90’s, at least. :-)
I missed the middle bits. But, clearly, they’re acting quite like the current Congress. As with the latter, they use this excuse to hide their alliance with the Bush/Cheney agenda and thereby fob off the American majority who want to see regime change, stat.
My idea of a refreshing after dinner drink is nice tall draught of FDL Smackdown.
Tonight, it is a stein of ShillKlein!
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 156
in Ohio it’s still used ……..
TBogg would disagree with jour characterization of bassets as “obedient, Jane.
Otherwise, spot on, y glad to read it.
so.
FDL, with Generals Hamsher and Smith have, with Glenn Greenwald, definitely found the strategy to cause great pain and consternation to the real American traitors.
Hannah Arendt’s banality of evil applies to those, like Joe Klein and his editor who try to misdirect the American public about the true nature of what the Bush Administration is up to. Klein and his editor are functionaries, they are accomplices, who well deserve to be called out for what they have been doing.
I know Bassets, I love Bassets, and you, sir, are no Basset or Basset-lover if you are talking about Bassets’ obedience. They don’t care what you say.
Basset’s have their own agenda, and obedience, save for food, will not make them deviate.
But I love all dogs, including Bassets.
I am, in fact, a dog-whisperer. They know I love them, and I fear no dog, either.
One of these days, this attitude is going to get me eaten.
If the dog can take me, which in most cases I will take my chances. Generally, we’ll work it out in advance.
Gee, reading in Jane’s post that they had all those “lefties” being able to ask questions in last night’s debate. And I didn’t even get to ask MY question. I wanted to ask Rudy Giuliani if as president he would support legislation to prevent harrassment of Republican congressmen by making it legal for Republicans to suck c***s in public restrooms. That would make life so much less stressful for them, not having to worry about being arrested and all.
Jane,
I got that pissy little RedState email also. Funny thing, I don’t recall the wingnuts over there getting all upset when gay hooker Jeff Gannon got caught throwing softball questions at Presidential press conferences…
That RedState email is a hoot!!! I think this should really point out just why “bipartisan” anything is impossible. I really wish the dem candies would NOT mention that word anymore. Screw that crap. People did NOT elect Dems in the midterms to be playing bipartisan patty cakes.
When these RedStater people have been spewing the “My way, or the highway” choice for so long, they really should either keep offa the highway or at least not scream about getting run over from all the new highway traffic!
Good for the Chicago Tribune!!! That’s what I want to see! Set it straight!
spocko @ 152
Thanks for your kind comments, Spocko. As an aside, this strikes me as inherent flaw in this discussion structure – the give-and-take of ideas lasts only as long as the latest post.
As to what one gets for fighting back, that’s why it takes courage. It’s the same courage it takes to be the point man in a squad in Fallujah: you stand a strong chance of taking one for the team.
But if Time loses editor after editor, if magazine after magazine devolve into transparent propaganda tools of the State (like Fox News), in the end the culture will recognize Tass and Pravda for what they are. The inherited air of legitimacy of Time actually enables the present authoritarian cult in the White House.
The problem right now is that we are all in severe denial. We all want to pretend that the party isn’t over, that everything can just go on day to day “like it always has.” That’s why strikes and protests annoy the mainstream – they are clear indications that the party may be over, that the status quo isn’t any more.
The courage to do what’s right – to strike, to protest, to resign a job that has been gutted of integrity – comes from a populace with enough ethical, moral, and historical education to realize that none of this is new. Corrupt authoritarian regimes happen time and time again, and their solutions are always the same in execution, if not in scope and scale. Somehow they fall apart. Sometimes they collapse of their own weight (think Soviet Union), sometimes by Czech-style velvet revolution, and sometimes by Thomas Paine style bloody ones.
Dumbing down and degenerating the educational system helps control the population by robbing them of the knowledge of how these things proceed, and by preventing them from learning the value of the courageous actions they might take. We celebrate Rosa Parks now, but we don’t realize the abuse she took for her refusal to comply with the system. If we understood history better, we might realize that necessary actions often do not return rewards within the lifetimes of the actors.
If our culture were not deliberately kept ignorant, some of us might have the courage to place our faith in our posterity and take the necessary actions.
Fun with the RedState email:
“Had”
CNNBUSHCO done its homework, this would not have happened. They either willfully let it happen, or incompetently bungled it. Either way, heads should roll.”And he calls himself an editor….. gack.
Fun with the RedState email:
“Had
CNNBUSHCO done its homework, this would not have happened. They either willfully let it happen, or incompetently bungled it. Either way, heads should roll.”And he calls himself an editor….. gack.
sorry for the double…. could you dump 170? :-)
katherine Graham Cracker @ 26
I’m sorry I missed that. But, I can imagine him asking them which has the strongest hands with which to strangle the government while holding it under water. I wonder which one he supports.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 37
That kind of dry humor didn’t make him president either.
Eureka Springs @ 104
Thank you!
Albatross @ 169
Albatross and spocko,
Above all, communities such as FDL need to be kept alive and continually educated by those who post and comment. This interactive print medium is ideal for the the exchange of ideas which can be fact-checked immediately.
The news industry has, indeed, been terrorized and infiltrated by those who despise true journalism. Working to support those who are researching and presenting real news is what a community like this can do.
Becoming an educated community which has eyes and ears tuned for nuance is as important as being the ones out front. It will take all of us.
The work being done to foster civics educations for communities such as this one is absolutely vital for the well being of the United States. Our children are on the line.
Bustednuckles @ 1
If they can’t stand up to “hardcore left wing activists,” how will they stand up to Al Qaeda?