Woke up this morning in a mood for some Ella. Here she is from 1963 singing “Georgia On My Mind.”
Political mood can be fickle, especially in a nation where the coverage is so overwhelmingly personality and ego driven these days in the media. (See this piece on Sally Quinn for starters.) But the underlying important issues at stake have continued to increase in importance the further away from the rule of law this nation gets.
You’d never know it if you only paid surface attention to the day to day coverage. Which is exactly what the Bush Administration and the GOP want to happen. Digby published an essay from a politically observant friend the other day that was spot on in terms of big picture honing in on what is at stake in the upcoming election. This was particularly on point:
So far, the GOP race has been the gift that keeps on giving to the Democrats. But George Bush must be made into the GOP nominees’ political brother. 2008 will be a “change the course” election and the electorate is clearly not thrilled with Washington DC priorities or institutional arrangements. So, the Democrats need to ride this tide both on the Presidential and Congressional levels.
Digby followed up with this point:
George Bush should be tied so tightly around the Republican candidates’ necks they can hardly breathe. Every quote of support, every vote, every word of worship should be thrown in their faces and there is a ton of it. He is the most unpopular president, for the longest sustained time, of any president in history. He is the modern Herbert Hoover, a man whose name should become an epithet.
Exactly. What is at stake in the next election cycle is enormous, and that cannot be said enough. Via Steve Benen writing at C&L, I found this CQ Politics article that deserves more discussion. Especially on this point:
…That’s because every traditional indicator of election forecasting — from public opinion polls and issue resonance to candidate recruitment and the “over/under” balance of seats in play — suggests that congressional Democrats have just as much going for them in 2008 as they had in 2006, if not more. They now have the power of incumbency to give them added advantages in raising money, attracting top-tier candidates, controlling the legislative agenda and capturing the political zeitgeist.
All this leads Democrats to profess clear confidence that they’ll retain majority control next fall. And not only that, but they may now harbor realistic visions of emerging with 55 to 58 seats in the Senate (pushing them within arm-twisting distance of the 60 votes needed to bust a filibuster) as well more than 240 seats in the House, a cushion that neither party has enjoyed since the end of the last Democratic era in the House, in 1994.
In fact, it’s now dawning on members of both parties that a Democratic sweep — with gains in Congress accompanied by a reclaiming of the White House — is the inescapable “morning line” assumption going into the 2008 campaign season. By early March at the latest, Democrats are likely to have a presumed presidential nominee who will enjoy consensus front-runner status going into the general election campaign. That will give them a titular leader for the first time in seven years and the opportunity to unite behind a single party message throughout the remainder of the year.
Republicans, meanwhile, appear destined for a yearlong internecine battle for the heart and soul of the party. Even if they manage to rally behind a single presidential candidate next spring, it is not at all clear that any of the leading candidates for the nomination can count on the loyal and enthusiastic support of evangelical Christians and other social conservatives who have formed the bedrock of the GOP “base” for more than a quarter-century.
But the media narrative continues to paint the Dems versus GOP influence and power question as a dead heat, nonetheless. The driving force for me this year, however, can be summed up thusly: the federal bench and local elections. You think the Bush years have been destructive to American political life? You ain’t seen nothing yet if we continue down the current road.
The damage that will be wrought from a stuffed Supreme Court should another Republican have the opportunity to cram another hardline, activist Federalist Society judge onto the bench would be nothing short of philosophical revolution. We’ve already seen what the Roberts Court can do in a short period of time. And, as the LATimes puts it, time isn’t exactly on our side over the long haul (H/T to reader WB):
Although Stevens has given no hint of retiring and shows no sign of slowing down — in the courtroom, he looks and sounds much as he did 20 years ago — the question of his tenure looms over the court and the 2008 presidential campaign.
If there is a tipping point in the Supreme Court’s future, it is likely to come with his departure. What kind of justice would replace him — and how strong the court’s slim conservative majority would be — may well depend on who is elected president.
There is a LOT at stake in the upcoming election. Including the restoration of the rule of law, and that starts with the ability to strongly impact federal judicial appointments. It also starts with governorships and state and local elections.
Over the next few months, I’m hoping to bring in a number of issues and some guests to discuss why this is so important for all of us. One only need to look at the recent precedent shattering decisions on pay equity to understand how this can impact day to day life across the board in this country, as those with less power have even less recourse to challenge those who have more. We have done a number of posts recently about the WGA strike, and why standing up for the writers is important for all of us. A recent article in Atlantic Monthly brings it home in stark terms:
…Lately economists have been using new data to look more closely within the top decile of American incomes. What they’ve found is startling. Here are some results from Ian Dew-Becker and Robert Gordon of Northwestern University. Between 1966 and 2001, median wage and salary income increased by just 11 percent, after inflation. Income at the 90th percentile (six minutes from the end of the hour-long parade) increased nearly six times as much—by 58 percent. At the 99th percentile (the last thirty-six seconds), the rise was 121 percent. At the 99.9th percentile (3.6 seconds before the end), it was 236 percent. And at the 99.99th percentile (0.36 seconds, representing the 13,000 highest-paid workers in the American economy), the rise was 617 percent.
That is worth repeating: Over thirty-five years, the rise in wages and salaries in the wide middle of the income distribution was 11 percent. The rise in wages and salaries at the top of the income distribution was 617 percent….
And because there are so many political problems from incumbant retirements and corruption scandals looming on the horizon for the GOP, they are increasingly turning to that 617 percent increase crowd for candidates. And where have they made those increases? Well, a whole lot of them are benefitting from the largesse of an ever-ravenous K Street and it’s useful GOP connections. Or at least, they were until the 2006 elections upset the golden applecart. George Bush and the GOP have made their choices and priorities crystal clear: as John Anderson said, it’s all about the benjamins, but only for themselves and their cronies, and the hell with everyone else.
What we can do is something very simple: make them own that publicly.
Every time I get disgusted or angry at the slow pace of change, I contemplate what the world must look like for Justice Stevens who, at age 87 and still as sharp as ever, must see an eyeful of history when he looks out at the mess things have become in the Beltway. And yet he picks up his briefcase every day and heads out to fight for what his idea of justice has always been, and for a reading of the laws and the precedents which includes, rather than excludes, much of America, not just her chosen few.
When I get to that age, I want to be able to say the same thing about myself — and I want my child to see the inclusive America in her lifetime. Have we reached a tipping point in American politics? I sure hope so. CQ seems to think we have — but it won’t get here without a helluva lot of work. And there is much to do between now and November 2008. So I ask you, what issues are motivating your actions this year? What gets you into the political fray to do the necessary work? Where do you want to see this nation go from here?
And, most importantly, what steps are you taking to make that happen?
Related posts:
- Has GOP Airlines Flight 188 Finally Reached Eau Claire?
- Memo to Jay Cost: Obama Won a Larger Percentage of the Popular Vote in 2008 than Reagan in 1980
- GOP Fearmongering Succeeds in Casting Doubt on Legitimacy of the Electoral Process
- Early Morning Swim: KO’s Special Comment on Blue Dogs
- Accountability Now Targets Jim Cooper for Primary Challenge





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Yes.
We have reached the tipping point.
Hey sunshine
“Have we reached the tipping point?”
Not if we re-elect the Clintons.
Good morning Christy!
Morning all. Where’s the coffee?
cc — Haven’t seen you an ages! What have you been up to lately?
The tipping point for me at least, is when America finally gets fed up with historical revision and decides to do something about it.
i’ll believe we’ve reached a tipping point when i see some change within the democratic party.
not there yet.
Must break thru the cultural amnesia/hypnosis and remind people what reality and facts are.
selise @ 8
That’s right.
What I’d like to know is what management decisions were taken to force TRex to leave and why, specifically.
congressional oversight.
last year was breaking the stranglehold the Rs had on congress. this year is accountability for the dems we worked to help get the majority.
I have coffee, hold out your cup, Redd… on my way to work, flip off the coffee machine and the lights when you’re done…
Good Morning.
We are at a tipping point. Just read Naomi Wolf. Randi Rhodes has been talking about this all week.
And Sieglemann in jail.
The thread at Kos is heartbreaking and so informative too. Read the comments. It sickens me to have him in jail if he is innocent. Cant he be released for a new trial?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/27/234036/74
Progress seems so slow but it is happening.
Seilse at 8 — I was thinking about that last night, actually. The internet organizing issue has really brought an ability to force incremental change to the fore in a way that we could not have done years ago. The Wellstone campaign was one of those watershed moments when a regular guy just catches fire and does well.
With the internet, we can help out more of those regular folks where we can find them — which is exactly one of the reasons that Howie started looking for them. The fact that a bunch of committed folks can band together and maybe get a few really good people elected each cycle still amazes me. But it’s happening.
And I was thinking about what that will mean in terms of overall change in the next ten years — and how ten years seems like a long time from here, but when you look back at it, it’s the blink of an eye, isn’t it?
ELLA is da bomb…..Ella sings Cole Porter IS my favorite album evah!
Catch-22. Would we want to elect someone who would want to take office & preside over this mess.
Not a tipping point. A roller coaster. Agree with the above that if we elect Clintons, you can expect lip service only for income distribution issues. They are in corp pockets, and even if they didn’t take money directly (which they do), they won’t do much to curb galloping corporate power. (Notice the use of “they” instead of “she”.)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 10
Or, more importantly, within the Democratic Presidential candidates — actions speak far louder (and win supporters’ loyalty) than words. Stop talking about doing something and actually do it!
Christy @ 15,
the Margaret Mead mantra…it was ever thus.
alank — He wasn’t forced out. Which he said a number of times yesterday — it was a mutual and amicable decision based on a whole host of factors, not the least of which that he needed to test his tiny forelimbs on his own a bit and see how they would grow. Feel free to e-mail Jane if you have questions, and I’m certain she’ll answer them. Or e-mail TRex.
Love him to death, and wish him all the best. And I’m sure we’ll still be talking at least once a week or so while he irons his shirts before he heads out to work. *G*
Tie them to the Bush — every single one of them. And since a picture is worth a thousand words, let’s bring on the photos . . .
Mitt and Bush
Rudy and Bush
McCain and Bush
We are ruled by political elites from both parties. The fix is in. When was the last time the presidential candidates worried about health care for their own kids? Or putting food on the table? Or how to make the next mortgage payment? Or the price of a gallon of gasoline or heating oil? Or went shopping? Or did the laundry? Or cooked supper? Or mopped the floors? Or carried out the trash? Or washed the dishes? And the list goes on and on and on.
Fishguy, one word: Edwards.
snowbird42 @ 14
Naomi Wolf was on democracynow this morning and on Brian Lehrer on wnyc yesterday. Accounts for my pessimism. Don’t want to don tinfoil hat too soon, & think it’s unwarranted given that Ds took Senate in 06, but I am thinking about how Rs are going to subvert 08 elections. They’re down, but they’re not out.
eCAHN at 24 — Hence the “still a LOT of work to be done” portion of the post. *g*
The polls i’ve seen show guiliani within a close enough margin that the repubs could, and will, easily steal the election. I’ve kind of lost hope.
Raising the age-old question of whether lip service is better than no service at all.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 25
Until we all get imprisoned with sensory deprivation.
Ugly In Pink — If you are referring to the Zogby online poll, you should read this first.
Good morning, I couldn’t sleep so I came in early.
1,
GW Bush’s name is already an epithet, has been.
2.
No T REX??!!
I was really busy yesterday and didn’t have any time to even lurk properly.
BEST OF LUCK TO YOU MAN!!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 15
nothing gives me more hope in the electoral process (about which i’m pretty cynical *g*) than the howie’s (and eveyone else who helps him) work on blue america. absolutely critical.
i was about to say “yes, 10 years is a blink of an eye”… but i think that may actually not be the case at this moment – because we’re at a tipping point in so many other things: the economy (especially with the hollowing out of the middle class, and the fed budget deficit and the trade deficit, deep recession has the potential for social unrest), peak oil and most importantly the global climate crisis.
we don’t have 10 years.
but we do what we can and hope for the rest.
Ugly In Pink @ 26
Not me—I intend to FIGHT BACK. I’m not going to sit around and let these criminals steal my beloved country.
We owe it to the next generation to give it our best try. We won’t win everything, but we have to go for what’s possible.
we ain’t seen nothing yet even if we turn around from the road
the amount of destruction is profound, our infrastructure is underfunded and hasn’t been maintained, the agencies that WERE in place to protect US are no in place to protecut industry
judges will decide in behalf of corporations for generations, law will be decided at the supreme court on behalf of corporations for generations
our grandchildren and their grandchildren will be paying the debt created by this administrations raiding of middle class assets
our industry has become international, most of our home grown corporations are now owned internationally
our debt is carried by communist china and saudi arabia
our armed forces have been depleted, our ability to recruit almost non existant
our international integrity is forever fallen, we can no longer guarantee good faith in treaties we sign, we can no longer inforce treaties other signatories sign
we can no longer point fingers to despots and call them despots, we are no longer the shining beacon of democracy
how to reclaim?
this is easier to do then anyone can realize but it’s harder to take the position that must be taken
we MUST hold these criminals before the bar of INTERNATIONAL justice
we must demonstrate to the entire planet that NO MAN is above the law and that we, the United States of America STAND BEHIND OUR CONSTITUTION AND THE RULE OP LAW and we stand AGAINST despots, ESPECIALLY our own
IF we bring these criminals to the bar of justice, just as the the nazi criminals were brought before the bar of justice, THEN we will reclaim our integrity and we will once again be able to claim;
WE ARE HONEST BROKERS OF INTERNATIONAL LAW
we stand against despots
we stand for the rule of law
we stand against torture, we stand with the geneva treaties
and we will once again stand proud among nations
I better quit now. I leave you with this. Any Democrat but the Clintons in ‘08.
Oh, and before I forget — we’ll hopefully have someone on tomorrow from the ACLU to update everyone on the FISA bill. I’ll post a reminder once I’ve firmed up details, but I wanted to give folks a heads up that it will likely be around 11:30 am ET tomorrow or so…
I’m afraid I disagree. George Bush isn’t running in 2008. All of the Republican contenders are distancing themselves, one way or the other, from Bush’s policies. Running against George Bush is a good way for the Democrats to look like they are 8 years behind the times.
What the Dems should do is articulate what they are going to do to help the country. Edwards has been making some eloquent pro-union speeches recently, for example. Agree or not, that’s something that people could vote on. I’m afraid I couldn’t tell you where Clinton or Obama stand on most things. Beating up on someone who isn’t running and refusing to say what you would do differently is a good way to lose.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 20
Okay. Thanks. Btw, I should’ve posted my pondering on the previous blog about the CEA chief resignation. Sorry for being off topic.
OKK at 34 — Wow, I never would have gotten that from you. *g*
Hope you had a good school break!
just keeping talking about Shrub’s third term
the Ghoul is happy to wear that mantel
Christy Hardin Smith @ 20 –
the way it was handled did not feel amicable – glad to hear i’m wrong about that…. not my call, but a link on the blogroll for trex would help.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 38
christy, your facebook link is now doing an ugly thing, I know we don’t do facebook anymore, maybe you can update your handle to fix that red x I get
Oklahoma kiddo @ 34
So, Bill is running. I — knew it!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 34
My sentiments, too, OKK. I cannot lightly blow off the historical memory of the Clintonista plan that factored in laying back and letting the BushCo rethugs take charge in 2000 because “it’s only eight years, how much damage can he do….”
Famous last words.
BlueMesa @ 36
Welesy Clark’s on wnyc right now. Sez W’s going to hold a victory parade in DC. Then all the Rs will be happy to tie him around their necks.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 35
thank you! i hate to miss the fisa posts *g*
BlueMesa at 36 — Completely agree with you on the “needs to articulate specifics on policy and how we move forward” from every Dem — absolutely. I wasn’t saying run against Bush to the exclusion of all else.
But, at the same time, every GOP candidate is trying to position themselves as the heir to the Bush agenda without ever having to say his name or answer questions as to why all their policies are just as bad or, in some cases, even worse for the country than Bush’s are. They should be made to own that every single time they open their mouths.
I read this, and thought of Alaska: Ted Stevens and his son, Don Young, VECO . . .
Ed*ard Teller’s been trying to keep up with all the political shenanegans in Alaska, as well as working for progressive candidates to replace the power-mad GOPers. It’s gotten so big that the Anchorage Daily News has a separate webpage to cover all the investigations.
In many ways, it is the local politicians that give the national leaders clout. Say what you will about the presidential race, and even bemoan the failings of the various candidates, but you can make a huge difference at the local level with a good campaign to support progressives politicians in your own home town.
Ugly In Pink @ 26
while we breath, there’s hope.
peris @ 33
Better than we hold these criminals before the bar of American justice.
No one is above the law. Not sports superstars. Not Martha. Not war profiteers. Not corrupt politicians. On either side of the aisle.
Accountability–it’s what’s cookin’.
Demand better. Be better.
selise at 40 — Good heavens, he only posted his good-bye last night. Give us more than a few hours, would ya? *g*
Christy Hardin Smith @ 46
what they’ve “learned” from rove is;
“mistakes?…we don’t do not stinking mistakes, everything is going according to plan and we must stay the course”
they know bush is the most hated president in our history yet they cannot admit they do mistakes
Prairie Sunshine @ 49
then we hold them before all bars of justice
we hold them before American justice and then if the international community demands it, before international justice
they have broken law national and international and if we are to regain the integrity of our nation they must be held to account for the crimes they’ve committed against this country, other countries and humanity
We will have reached the tipping point if after 2008 we move beyond the discourse of the 1960s and the Vietnam War, beyond the baby boom, if we move beyond the Bush-Clinton dynasty, and finally, if we recalibrate politics for a new generation.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 50
five days (although it seemed longer wondering what was going on)…. and it wasn’t a complaint – only a suggestion.
When the Left was pinned down and surrounded by Bushco following 9-11, these blogs were a necessary refuge. Here we licked our wounds, gained strength from one another and gathered ourselves for the battles ahead.
Now, the political landscape is very different. In this new terrain these blogs will need to change to remain relevant and vibrant.
Our old reactionary blog ghettos are going to have to come to grips with the responsibilities of leadership.
A lot of the people I know are sick of Bush and ready for a change. The big problem I see is that Hillary Clinton does not inspire the Democratic base, folks like the FDL community. Passion wins elections, and HRC just doesn’t fire me up, or many of the people here. I see a corporatist, and a bit of a left authoritarian in her. I will vote for the Democratic candidate, but my money is going to insurgent congressional candidates.
Christy – thanks, but actually I was talking about the Gallup poll too. Problem is, we can’t just win like in a fair election. It has to be a massive sweep or they’ll be able to fix the elections again. I’d say we need a margin of at least 8-10% to be safe. I’m not sure how that’s going to happen with the media spinning like mad to try and paint fascist Rudy as a moderate.
Something else I missed?
on a smaller scale, i’m hopeful that there may be a tipping point at TIME soon. here’s glenn’s latest.
Sad to say our situation now reminds me of Russia eleven years ago when I started over there. Observed that if their government would just stop doing so many obstructive, greedy, and downright stupid things, the country would blossom.
And so, now, for the United States.
Working on positive things like green energy, lifting people up out of poverty, addressing the backlog of mentally ill people seeking help, ameliorating mortgage foreclosures—I dream that we can turn our energies to these problems. But first we must reclaim our government.
Herzliya SpeechOklahoma kiddo @ 3
Or Edwards Herzliya Speech
Or Obama S.970
And Kucinich apparently thinks a Kucinich-Paul Independent Ticket is peachy!
If I vote I get a bunch of folks who are rotten…so why should I vote?
I’ve read enough here on FDL to make me disgusted with ALL the Democratic candidates.
Why should I vote for any of these hypocrites?
selise — Not to get nitpicky, but until he posted something that this really was how things were going to be for sure, jumping the gun would have been premature, neh? Sometimes, the behind the scenes feelings get to be taken into account, too…
Sally Quinn
president of the Liz Trotta DC Chapter of Bitter old women
Not disagreeing with you in principle, perris. Maybe in philosophy. I do think America owes accountability to the world, and the best way to show that is to clean our own house.
A truth and reconciliation commission has been mentioned in previous threads. I do believe we owe something like that to our children and the world.
And it can’t be pushed off as somebody else’s duty. Not “historians” or “world courts.”
The stain of the Bush years is on all our hands. Cleanup can take many forms, but vigilance should be a strong detergent…we cannot allow complacency to seep in again like black mold.
Bush will leave behind a diminished America. All of us must roll up our sleeves and restore its luster.
Demand better. Be better.
cinnamonape @ 61
i’ve asked myself the same thing…. and here’s the answer i come up with:
because even small changes in policy by the president of the usa has the power to affect, even destroy so many lives. and many of the people who would be affected have no vote or say of any kind in one of the biggest political decisions to affect their lives and world.
even if we can’t vote for our own sakes – we must vote for theirs.
Boyofboyofboy. The more I listen to Wesley Clark, the more I realize what a wingnut he is. Just like Hillary, who he endorses.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 46
Hi Christy! Some of that is smart politics on the Republican side: Bush’s approval ratings have actually been rising steadily since the summer, while the Congressional approval ratings have been falling. If you’re going to hitch yourself to an agenda, better to gain some momentum from it.
I’d love to hear a Democratic candidate say: the Republicans want to do X, Bush tried that and it doesn’t work, so I’m proposing to do Y instead. Kucinich, for example, speaks like that. Unfortunately, it seems the “front runner candidates” incessantly omit the X and the Y and just say “Bush is a failure”. I don’t know if they think this is smart sound-bite politics or if they just haven’t figured out what Y is. Either way I don’t think it’s going to pull any Republicans or Independents into the Democratic fold. You have to give those voters some reason to change their behavior.
Awesome job with the FISA reporting by the way!
Remembering the late, great Molly Ivins…
My friend John Henry Faulk always said the way to break a dog of that habit is to take one of the chickens the dog has killed and wire the thing around the dog’s neck, good and strong. And leave it there until that dead chicken stinks so bad the dog won’t be able to stand himself. You leave it on there until the last little bit of flesh rots and falls off, and that dog won’t kill chickens again.
The Bush Administration is going to be wired around the neck of the American people for four more years, long enough for the stench to sicken everybody. It should cure the country of electing Republicans.
Looking forward to welcoming y’all to Austin in July!
If dems control both houses of congress and the White House- we will begin to see a reversal of the gooper policies of the last seven years…Yep that’s a tipping point. We will also see the end of gooper judges who have proven that they put politics above justice..these are things to celebrate. I hope Edwards is in the White House- but ANY dem can keep the Supreme Court situation from becoming way worse…
“And at the 99.99th percentile (0.36 seconds, representing the 13,000 highest-paid workers in the American economy), the rise was 617 percent.”
Wow. Even the craziest wingnut welfare is a good investment if you are in that top percentile. You can support a slew of pajamasmedia/coulter/malkins and still turn a pretty profit.
alank @ 11
Trex covered why he left last night. Didn’t seem that there were any “management decisions” or that he was “forced to leave”.
Of course, maybe he just didn’t want his last column zapped. But I think TRex is not one to mince words and say something he doesn’t believe.
Very likely he knew he had caused a lot of trouble from OUTSIDERS and that others had to carry his water. So he decided that creating his own blog was a way to solve the problem.
That’s the way I saw it from his comments.
NEW BUSH IRAQ SPIN!
Today Karl Rove (no longer a “Bush official” – hah) claims that CONGRESS PUSHED BUSH prematurely into the un-winnable Iraq War! Rove tries to rewrite Iraq war history.
Meanwhile, the Big Dawg complicates things a little bit for his wifey:
War On War Off @ 68
I so miss Molly, she was such a powerful voice.
And she was so right on……I look forward to Austin, already have my reserv. etc.
cinnamonape @ 61
Because we don’t want another Republican nominating candidates for the Supreme Court.
All the Democratic candidates have flaws — I’ve decided I can live with Edwards’. Both Obama and Clinton have demonstrated too many hawkish tendencies for me to vote for them in the primaries.
But I will vote for my party’s nominee in the General Election.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 62
it was posted, here in the comments and at his new site, as a done deal on friday… and i don’t mind read, so i don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. that’s part of what felt so weird – the disconnect between what was happening on the front page and in the comments. felt like there was some family tensions that us kids weren’t supposed to talk about. not trying to give you a hard time, christy, would be happy to drop the subject and return to hoped for tipping points.
OT–
Anyone gonna watch the Repug debate tonight?
cinnamonape@71
Maybe “management”, can post something to allieviate ALL of the tensions surrounding the loss of TRex? That might help explain everything to those who still have questions.
I tend to stay out of family spats myself…*g*
Biodun @ 73
I guess I am among the few that does not equate “the right to go attack” with attacking prematurely
both clintons gave bush the right to attack if the inspectors said there were wmd’s, bush attacked without those wmd’s
congress NEVER gave bush the right to attack pall mall without evidence and bush never got the evidence and never got the ok from EITHER clinton
everyone knows I am no opologist for hilary but voting in good faith to give a president the options they request is not a bad thing for most presidents, just this president
Christy Hardin Smith @ 6
Christy: I’ve been very busy at work. A lot of layoffs. Trying to be good.
must earn, will see all later
Christy,
Thanks for the post.
Dems do need to stay on track with the issues and stop bashing each other. We had this dialogue in a thread last week and mentioned the need for some unity in policy perspectives, to assure that the Dem nomination can be trusted to take some sound policy into leadership. For example, mentioned that Gore should meet with all and Dems and organize one sound energy and environment policy.
There are many others I would suggest. Perhaps meet with Carter at the Carter Center and put together a poverty and human rights platform that all Dem candidates will be in agreement on.
I would also suggest a meeting with the Concord Coalition and Konigsberg to develop a balanced budget party platform.
There is a whole list of respected, honored forward thinking humanitarians who are highly informed about US and World policy and politics to help form a “foundational Dem platform” which hits clearly on big issues with sound direction forward while honoring the rule of law.
The voters want to stand up and support clear, positive, sound direction on issues. Not who is left standing after the bashfest.
FDL continues to grow and change.
Anyone who has been here as long as I have has seen the place grow almost exponentially,since back in the day when it was a solo effort by Jane.
Just like real life,adjustment and exploration are the things that must come.It is appropriate that FDL REPRESENTS change, we come for the bonds that we have forged and the promise of a new day.
And Ahmadinejad bellyaches:
We’ve tipped!
Karl Rove is blaming Congress for giving Bush the power to go to war with Iraq TOO EARLY, BEFORE THEY WERE REALLY READY and had everything in place.
See repeat of Obermann’s Countdown last night.
On the Huffington post. Arianna was on with Keith discussing it.
MS @ 72
Arianna Huffington had a great putsown of this on last night’s KO. Said wouldn’t work in YouTube environment.
Ah, the pains of growth and change…
First he tried to present his own math
and now we have Karl Rove’s history
of course he is probably cooking of a PU poll to show he is right. Or maybe he can just get Ward Connerly’s free pollster John Zogby to do it.
I wonder if this was a political raid? 2 tons of Ron Paul coins confiscated.
Liberty Dollar office raided
Staff report
Originally published 01:42 p.m., November 15, 2007
Updated 01:42 p.m., November 15, 2007
“The future of an Evansville-based company that produces a “private voluntary barter currency” known as the Liberty Dollar is in question after federal agents raided the facility this week, according to an e-mail sent by its founder.
Federal officials reportedly raided the group’s headquarters, located in a strip mall at 225 N. Stockwell Road, early Wednesday morning and seized documents and precious metals.”
…
“According to the e-mail, about a dozen agents arrived Wednesday morning and seized gold, silver, platinum and nearly two tons of recently delivered Ron Paul Dollars. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze the group’s bank accounts, the e-mail said.”
http://www.courierpress.com/ne…..ce-raided/
Biodun @ 88
…or shrinkage & regression.
I think this Enlightment idea that there’s progress in human society must be reexamined. The Enlightment is dead and we only have 200 years that we interpret as progress. A tiny period in the history of humankiind.
rwcole @ 69
My concern is WILL the dems do this if given a larger majority. We will still have the bush dogs, even if Bush is gone. Can the union survive long enough to give the Dems power, then weed out the problem dems, and elect better representatives to their positions?
Oh that Karl Rove. What a card. Wish I’d had my digital camera with me when I saw him sneaking out his boy-toys’s place a couple of years ago…
eCAHNomics @ 87
If that were true, Bush couldn’t have gotten away with lots of things. The media tend to ignore history and let Rove and the R’s spin it to suit them.
KLynn @ 83
Well said. Discussions like the Dodd-Clinton one on whether or not we should give driver’s licenses to undocumented aliens are the kinds of discussions we should have. Sideshows like Clinton threatening to leak embarrassing things about Obama’s past, followed by Obama confessing his drug use but saying he wouldn’t do it again, are what we don’t need.
OT, sorta kinda – and my apologies if someone’s already pointed this out.
From Rawstory:
Official Probing Rove Now Under Investigation
The federal official helming a probe into potentially illegal partisan political activities conducted by Karl Rove and other White House officials is himself the focus of a federal investigation.
Scott Bloch, the Bush-appointed head of the US Office of Special Counsel, is under investigation for the alleged improper deletion of emails on office computers, The Wall Street Journal’s John R. Wilke reports.
“Recently, investigators learned that Mr. Bloch erased all the files on his office personal computer late last year,” writes Wilke. “They are now trying to determine whether the deletions were improper or part of a cover-up, lawyers close to the case said.” The inspector general of the Office of Personnel Management is examining the case at the urging of the White House.
(snip)
***
He called the Geek Squad to have someone sent out to do a seven-level wipe of his hard drive. Coverup? Naaaaah – ya think??
The Enlightenment was a legacy from the French in the eighteenth century–progress, yes. The Founding Fathers grounded the US in that. The US came together through accidents and luck in fits and starts. If Touissant L’Ouverture hadn’t rebeled against Napoleon, then the French would have tried to reconsolidate its empire in America, and there wouldn’t have been the Louisiana Purchase, and there wouldn’t be the US as we know it…
KLynn @ 83
Thinking outside the box! This would be a good ongoing way to seize the bully pulpit on issues…show that policy and planning are a work in progress. That smash-n-grab outlawism, i.e. Bush govern by yer gut, is out and here’s what you have to look forward to [instead of hunkering down from] for a change.
Would love to see all the Dem candidates sign on to this idea and commit to stay with the process even if they drop out of the campaign. Will show thinking grownups will be back in charge.
gumby
I suspect that there will be MORE- not less- PROBLEM dems. As the fifty state strategy unfolds, we will end up with more dems from red states- and they will be much more conservative than we would like on some issues.
Then the issue becomes holding the group together. Gaining a large majority in 08 only to lose it again in 10 is not much of a victory.
Dems need to show middle america that they can improve their lives in tangible ways.
More Rove sleaze?
http://online.wsj.com/article/…..whats_news
rwcole @ 99
Are Ds from red states better or worse than Rs from red states from our POV?
Sometimes when I want to understand american politics, I go to my local Wal Mart and walk around for an hour looking at people. That’s who the voters are- what are they thinking- what do they expect from government? The party who gets their vote will win in the long term.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 34
I thought you used to say, to paraphrase “I support John Edwards, but will support the Democratic nominee in 2008″.
And you also have a list in which your Primary Nomnee would have to get all troops out of Iraq, support the establishment of a Palestinian nation and just peace in the Middle East, among other things.
But Edwards appears to be not all that different from Hillary, at least judging from his Herzliya Speech and an earlier speech to A*P*C*
To be fair, when he’s out of those forums he does say things quite a bit differently. He retreats from his hawkish stance. As in this tough Interview With Ezra Klein
His stance with Iran is quite a bit more diplomatic and nuanced. But he has also insisted on some preconditions (for example on his Campaign website) that would essentially preclude any negotiations with Iran.
It seems to me Edwards has to realize he can possibly get Iran (under it’s current government) to negotiate and assure that their nuclear reactors are for peaceful purposes. But to do that he can’t insist that Iran recognize Israel and not support Hamas and Hezbollah as PRECONDITIONS.
Biodun @ 97
Didn’t mean to provoke a discussion on how history would have been different without the Enlightenment, just to challenge whether one of it’s core assertions is accurate, i.e., that there’s progress in human history.
Holy George Constanza, shrinkage!
In re TRex’s last blog here, there was not so veiled acrimony in the language, as far as I could detect. The night owl shift, tho, is not a happy place. Maybe he was seeking morning or evening drive time without much progress.
Smgumby @ 92
Both FDR and LBJ managed to do much during their eras with similar unfriendly voting blocks. The problem is that HRC will cause yet another Republic to occupy the Whitehouse. That’s the thing that may not be survivable.
KestrelBrighteyes @ 96
IIRC, there has pretty much always been a contention that Bloch was only investigating Rover to cover his own a**.
Cahn
Oh much better I think. They are pro labor, are not in the pockets of polluters and sweat shop owners. They’ll vote for progressive taxation, etc.
They may not always please us, though, on defense and social issues.
We need to make the tent big enough to allow them in- or leave em to the goopers and get more GWs.
eCHAN:
There is progress in human history–in fits and statrts. Progress follows the laws of thermodynamics–until it reaches entropy.
New Thread.
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..t/#respond
Progress in human history? Great question. Have the arts and literature progressed? Has man’s ability to live together peacefully improved? I’m not so sure- but we DO have big TEEVEES and motor cars.
rwcole @ 102
While buying unsafe chinese products, they worry that the Democrats will force them into gay marriages so they want to vote for Republics.
Badwater
They don’t look like they’re worryin bout gay marriage. Many are hispanic and are worried about gettin enough food in the basket to feed the kids.
rwcole @ 99
You may want to look more closely at the individual races. In the Senate, the ones that are close now, depending on who you talk to, are Louisiana, Colorado, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Maine, Minnesota, and Oregon, none of them radical states either to the left or to the right. It’s a battle for the center, and I agree with your point that many people will make that decision based on who will affect their own lives in the most positive way, something the Democrats have been dismally poor at talking about.
Also, the most optimistic forecast I’ve seen is for 53 Democrats in the Senate (and that including Liebermann), hardly a big majority. If just a few of those states turn, we could see a tied Senate, and there’s still even an outside chance that the Republicans could pull out a majority if the Democrats choke royally.
Blue Texan’s upstairs…
perris @ 80
I reread the Joint Resolution last night and that is the way it looks to me..I also read the speech that Bill is getting nailed on and to say he was for war in Iraq is really a bit over the top.
He is a link to WJC’s Iraq war opinions..Are these cherry picked, probably, but it’s info.
link
Good Morning Christy and Pups.
Wonderful post, Christy. It’s still scary out there, but I can feel the hope, “useful” anger, and determination a-rising.
Besides more “normal” things, I’ve been dropping little hint-comments here and there & seeing who rises to the bait – then deciding how to proceed depending on the reactions.
I’ve been heartened at the anger and interest out there in the populace. My major fears are that people will get so-o-o angry and frustrated, that an abundance of negative emotion will tip them over into a feeling of hopelessness, and they will not bother to vote.
We MUST encourage, enable, badger, whatever-it-takes, get these angry people to vote!
Another worry: that the repubbles will be successful in their nasty little efforts to get people to think, “Everyone does it. Throw ALL the bums out.” I think that sort of feeling, if it spreads, is alarming and dangerous. We should nip it in the bud wherever we can, however we can, even if it’s just by talking one-on-one with the overly-wrought negative folk we encounter.
We MUST have as many GOOD incumbents as possible re-elected. Washington is going to need their experience to counteract the power of the K-Street machine. Translation: Would you rather Lott run the country from capitol hill or K St., or NOT. AT. ALL? We need to de-fuse &/or dilute influence like his.
Rahm aside, we need to stay within the Democratic Party, when and if at all possible.
Yes, OKK. I luvs ya dearly, but if it does come down to Hill. vs. a repubble, please please please admit you’ll hold yer nose & vote, or at least hush about her till the electin’s done.
[go ahead, OKK. SMACK me across the forehead now & get it over with. *cringes*]
We GET it, o.k. OKK? But what you’re saying can be picked up as ever-so-much more cannon fodder by the repubbles. Please please don’t give them that on a silver platter. Perfection ain’t in the cards in politics, EVER. We gotta go with the best we kin git, eh?! Yes, it’s that important to bend just a bit if we must, for the greater prize.
As for Rahm, and mebbe Chuckie Schu if he doesn’t behave, I kinda like War On War Off’s delightful vignette from dear Molly Ivins (#68), heh.
Disclaimer: all the above under my moniker are just random thots from an idgit. Ignore at will, or at yer peril – whatever. I shall keep marching anyway.
- born stubborn…. ;->
selise @ 65
Yes Christy, I had to go up and read your initial piece. And that means that I will vote for “the lesser of evils” both because SOME of their positions are going to be far better than anything the Republicans have to offer…but also because I recall what happened with the Progressive movement when Nader and the Greens failed to win.
I shall vote, especially for the Congressional candidates that really could make up a bloc of individuals that could influence the legislation that eventually makes its way up to the President to sign. The stronger that bloc is, the more likely that a Democratic President will have to work with them. They could even influence the Speakerships…both in body and decision.
But if a Republican gets in we can expect years of vetos, and more of the “66% solution”.
In personally think that there isn’t much of a difference between Clinton, Obama and Edwards on most issues, foreign or domestic. Putting “Strike Brigades” in Kuwait to fight in Iraq doesn’t really mean that “I’ll pull all combat troops out of Iraq”. It’s subterfuge. And what are those 5000 troops there to prevent attacks on diplomats or reconstruction teams gonna be doing if not “combat”?
Progressives will have to keep pushing the candidates and the office holders on these issues. Edwards, in particular, needs it NOW…since he thinks that he has the blind support of progressives. But all three have to be aware that no one should EXPECT our support in the primaries. It has to be earned.
My sense is that 2008 will see an enormous down turn in the economy and the republican economic vision completely repudiated and the way paved for an democratic landslide. People will be in despair and looking for the other side to get them out of the mess that supply side trickle down unfettered free market capitalism lead them into.
But will the dems be able to turn it around? The deeper the ecomoiny tanks the more likely the dems are to win big.
Iraq will almost be forgotten (sadly) as the doom and gloom economic stories lead the news cycle day after day.
Dems may win but can they save?
Franco @ 78
What questions weren’t answered last night? Did you actually visit his last nights post? Late Night FDL: The Graduation Bell by TRex
sunshine @ 90
Well one of Ron Paul’s positions is that privately issued currency in precious metals be allowed to be freely circulated as currency parallel to other currencies. Paul is very big on returning to a sort of “Gold Standard” and doing away with the Federal Reserve.
Now what’s most interesting is how he makes his money. Take a lkook at his Financial Disclosure FormYou’ll soon realize that Paul is actually quite into making his wealth from the precious metals commodity markets and gold and silver mines…which would benefit immensely if his legislation actually went through.
Where I come from this is what we call old-fashioned “Conflict of Interest”. But maybe the rules are different if you are a libertarian from South Texas?
1,672 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
“‘George Bush should be tied so tightly around the Republican candidates’ necks they can hardly breathe.’”
Well now, that statement has been shouted out around here with a slight Norwegian accent for three fuckin’ years!! It seems that folks out here in the boondocks and on the streets have figured it out long ago…so now even the new “blogpundit” class is gettin’ it. The problem, of course, has been that both political parties’ leadership get their marchin’ orders from the same bankin and finance company. But more’n that, we haven’t had ANY candidates in statewide or national races willin’ ta call a spade a shovel. There have, however, been many local elections that have turned incumbents out because of their close proximity to and contamination from the Chimpenfuherer…the St. Paul mayor race is a great example.
So now the next election cycle has started and instead of repeatin’ the chorus from the hymn that local and state candidates are singin’ all over the country, the Democratic Party leadership is waitin on the presidential nominee to set the tune…and if Mrs. Clinton or Barak O’Lieberman were to be nominated Bush might be asked ta be vice President!!
The Republican Party is comin apart at the seams so the fascists are simply buyin up the leadership of the “Democrat” Party. The battle for the future of democracy in America is bein’ fought in the congressional primaries and in the state nominating conventions this next Spring…y’all roll up yer sleeves and come on out, but be ready ta put it on the line!
KEEP THE FAITH AND HIT THE STREETS!!
cinnamonape @ 121
i don’t think so.;.. for a couple of reasons:
1) he doesn’t trust the fed or paper money – so he puts his money in gold. and he advocates for an economy where everyone does the same. i see his investments and the policies he advocates coming from the same place – his distrust of fiat currency.
2) he has no chance of implementing his policy (for precious metal alternative currency) implemented – so there is no chance he would benefit from his investments because of his policy.
if he get’s elected president and tries to change us over to a gold currency, then i’m with you – it’s a conflict of interest. (or even if congress should seriously consider the matter)
btw, these are the same ground i use to defend gore – he advocates for things that he invests in… but both the policies he advocates for and his investment decisions come from the same place – his vision of what is needed.
if gore gets elected president (in my dreams *g*) i’d say he should make some changes also to avoid the potential for conflict of interest.
but for now, neither paul nor gore are in a position of implementing the policies they advocate – so i see no reason they should not invest in the ways that are consistent with their visions for what is needed.
Christy @ 50
Well, as long as you’re doing thing s to the blog roll, you might want to update Larry Johnson’s addy too. He moved back in July.
And more relevantly: I returned a letter from the DCCC that I got last weekend. Told them I give Blue America, and was giving no money to Rahm and Steny. It felt really good ….
This is a great thread for those who might want to story-board the meme-forest of national recovery.
If even die-hard Cheney republicans are having dream-like aural epiphanies about how this country has to reclaim its government for the sake of generations to come… We are indeed at a tipping point. There will, of course, be more. Just as I hope there are more threads like this one!
Ella is one of the best, thanks Christy.
I seem to be able to think of only one thing politically and that is the Impeachment of this president and vice president.
It seems to me that all else follows that because if we permit them to continue unabated the political climate for the next president, assuming a democrat is elected, will be all the more beset with attacks and disinformation to the point that their viability as a functioning body will be so curtailed that they are essentially impotent. The swift boat mentality and worse will not quit.
My question may seem obtuse but I have to ask, why is this not happening, because it is bullshit that they don’t have numbers or votes.
In my world intent is a powerful force yet there is no one with the courage to step up and unrelentingly raise this issue no matter the political price.
This may be a little OT but goddamnit it needs to happen.
perris from 33:
“IF we bring these criminals to the bar of justice, just as the the nazi criminals were brought before the bar of justice, THEN we will reclaim our integrity and we will once again be able to claim;
WE ARE HONEST BROKERS OF INTERNATIONAL LAW
we stand against despots
we stand for the rule of law
we stand against torture, we stand with the geneva treaties
and we will once again stand proud among nations
“
We haven’t done that, in the main, in 100 years. It’s time the Disney version of U.S. history was overturned for the truth. We have backed 40 overthrows of other peoples’ governments in the last 100 years. It’s fine for us to say that we want our country to live up to our basic tenets of decency, but to say that we have in the past is a lie. A convenient lie for stirring rhetoric, but still a lie.
NorskeFlamethrower says:
November 28th, 2007 at 8:39 am
Plus one.
ok. the upcoming prez election is most likely the most important in the last 30 years. So how will the dems insure that all of those who are registered to vote, vote? As far as I can see, voting has been going down hill for the last 40 years, fewer people-who are registered-actually taking the time to vote. Granted, this was an off year election, but in my city-San Antonio, Tx(over 500k people registered to vote) fewer than 10% locally, and fewer than 12% statewide(there were several state constitution amendments, one was to eliminate property tax for disabled vets) in fact one school district in town wanted to close a HS if a tax increase didn’t pass. Fewer than 5% of voters in that district voted-of course now they are going to court to force the district to keep the HS open. My point, if you can’t get people interested enough to vote on matters that affect their pocketbooks, and since more than 50% of “adults” in the US think that they have no stake in govt. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET MORE PEOPLE TO VOTE????? here in Tx we have 10 days of early voting-fewer than 500 people voted here in SA in the nov election.(my wife and I vote by absentee ballot) As far as I am concerned, the only question that really matters in the 2008 prez election is-how do you get the people up off their asses, off the couch, and into the voting booth????? HOW????????
The Dems need to stay focused. The point: stay on the issues. Confirm for the voters that no matter whoends up the Dem candidiate, that there will be a “foundational policy for upholding the Constitution in terms of ‘xy and z’ issues from the Dems.”
The Dem candidates need to also hold a “reverse debate”. Here’s the concept: basically, a town meeting where citizens (not hand-picked and fed questions) but people who have real concerns about healthcare, security, deficit and the war are asked by the candidates to share their concerns and the candidates promise to come up with a unified platform any one of them will take into office, whomever the party nominates.
This move alone would put Bush around all the Rep candidates’ necks just by being proactive on issues and running like true public servants as opposed to public power-grabbers.
Sounds crazy. However, I think the country is watching and wanting a hope for our future in so many ways. Running the Dem primaries from the message of “solutions”, and not “who is raising the most $$$” would open the field for more voters, especially independents. It would also make any swiftboating out to be exactly what it is — cheap, unprincipled mudslinging.
The Dems need to be the party of Constitutional solutions for a safe and healthy United States. That may require the field of candidates to stand together on issues with creative solutions & perspectives… It’s soul-searching time…
I reached the “tipping point” on the use of the term “tipping point” a while back.
Gladwell is an interesting writer whose knack for catchy titles leads people to make erroneous conclusions. Tipping points are only one of many possible results in a complex system.
Unless it’s Hillary. In which case we will have a split party, another big sellout to the corporations, and a demoralized electorate that won’t bother to show up at the polls. I’ll show up at the polls, but I won’t be voting for the nominee, that’s for sure.
There is no tipping point. Diebold still controls the election machinery. Your votes in the blue column will never count.
Anyone mentioned the attempt (by Giulliani and Co.?) to steal a bunch of California’s electoral votes? This could be the biggest “tipping point” aspect to the 08 show. What are we going to do about it? Florida00/Ohio04/California08?
If this thing goes ahead on referendum (next March or June?) we have to press the state attorney general to throw the sucker out. Who has the latest on this?
Thanks.
Aaaaargh — You should comment under your own name – it would be more fun for everyone. Or was there a “Stir the Pot Day” memo that I missed somewhere?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 34
A comment from a Wisconsin resident @ dkos today says Russ is torn between his heart and Obama and his head and Clinton. Which will win out I wonder?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 15
Christy, I really appreciate your optimism and hope. In politics, that’s quite a feat. Reading this gave me a lift and I’m sure I’m not alone. As a long time observer of archetypal cyclical patterns, these suggest a growing power and influence of progressives, but the conservative movement will also be empowered, especially between 2008-2011. One of the ways I think this conservative/progressive polarity may manifest will be that the Roberts Court will be increasingly at odds with the more progressive leaning of the country in the years ahead (that is, the next decade 2010-2020).
Peterr @ 21
Geez, that McCain-Bush picture is embarrassing. Has that man no shame at all. I mean, sniffing Bush’s armpit in public. It’s disgusting.
Biodun @ 73
Please, a bit more respect for Hillary. She is a Democratic Senator after all.
I guess the Iowa crowds are a bit more anti-war than perhaps her campaign anticipated. Or, maybe he just slipped, as we all do at times.
In calling W “a modern Herbert Hoover,” I believe Digby does a great injustice to the memory of Mr Hoover. Let’s get a sense of proportion, please.
http://www.mikedash.com/extras_rulers.htm
cinnamonape @ 103
Edwards has campaigned a lot more about domestic issues. His foreign policy positions mostly, though not only, have been abstract. I think his general position there, as well as with Iraq, has been to maintain options.
I suspect we won’t know how he might deal with Iran until it happens.
But, if his rhetorical position of maintaining options is fundamental to how he sees foreign policy, then you would likely see him doing that in the micro-situation of negotiating with another country, such as Iran, one-on-one.
How that would play out specifically is hard to say. I suspect that if you asked former Secretarys of State how you negotiate with another country they would tell you it varies with the country. There may be some guiding principles, but like every human relationship there has to be an openness to relating to the other as they require and are able to relate.
Based on his 2004 campaign and his hawkish talk, in those rare instances when he’s said anything, you wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) expect anything less hard-nosed than a Kennedy or Clinton would do.
cinnamonape @ 118
Oh, I think all the candidates know it’s a real dogfight and nobody has it in their pocket.
On differences between the candidates: There are obviously fewer differences in their policy positions and tendencies than there is with any Republican. That’s only natural. Still, the broad plan Edwards puts forward to assist the middle-class and working poor is a more unified vision than the list of things other candidates offer (though there is some overlap). I like Edwards people-first position on all issues. That ought to lead to entertaining debates with the Republican nominee.
On Iraq: I think there is clearly a difference between the candidates, but it is a small one. The main thing is that all of them are saying we should get out, but that Hillary has also said we should maintain troops there. That isn’t so much an issue about foreign policy as it is about Hillary’s ability to stand everywhere on an issue.
On 5,000 troops: I think the idea of having troops out of the big metropolitan centers and out of the public view is quite a lot different than having units in the field for various combat purposes. Even having troops in public training Iraqi soldiers wouldn’t be quite the same as fighting. Personally, I’d prefer to skip the training units and keep our troops as far out of the public view as possible. It seems to have allowed a big reduction in violence when the Brits pulled out and we should do likewise. If we’re lucky the 5,000 will in fact be guarding the embassy and it’s employees and not doing combat. Isn’t that what some military do at all our embassies around the world?
Aaaargh @ 133
Not everywhere. There’s been a real war going on around the country and the electronic voting machines and Diebold are losing. Actually Diebold spun-off the evm division to be ‘free’ of it.
Ohio now has a Dem governor and SoS.
Florida’s Repub governor is against the evms.
California has a Dem Sos who has tossed ‘em out.
There are some other states where this is happening too. For more information go to http://www.bradblog.com where that is the issue they focus on most highly.