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	<title>Comments on: Beg your pardon, Mr. President?</title>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1122026</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1122026</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1120429&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Smgumby @ 150&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Wouldn’t Dodd/Richardson be a beautiful ticket for America?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Richardson is absolutely terrible at the most basic politicians skill of presenting himself and speaking clearly.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’d prefer Edwards-Dodd because they both have really nice haircuts.  :-)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1120429"><em>Smgumby @ 150</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Wouldn’t Dodd/Richardson be a beautiful ticket for America?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Richardson is absolutely terrible at the most basic politicians skill of presenting himself and speaking clearly.</p>
<p>I’d prefer Edwards-Dodd because they both have really nice haircuts.  :-)</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1122012</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:45:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1122012</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1120361&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;perris @ 86&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
…&lt;br /&gt;
I guess I am among the few that does not equate “the right to go attack” with attacking prematurely&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;both clintons gave bush the right to attack if the inspectors said there were wmd’s, bush attacked without those wmd’s&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;congress NEVER gave bush the right to attack pall mall without evidence and bush never got the evidence and never got the OK from EITHER Clinton&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Technically you’re right. That most senators didn’t read the intelligence reports tell us they didn’t want to know the details. Most all of them voted based on political considerations. Of course, that was the position Rove intentionally put them in. Apparently there was no other real purpose to that legislation since Bush ignored it in the end.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Consider this though, if that authorization didn’t give Bush the right to go to war without UN support and yet he still went, then what signal does the Kyl-Lieberman amendment vote, which also doesn’t authorize war, send to Bush?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We don’t need any unclear shades of gray discussion of war or evidence for war where Bush is concerned. Hillary didn’t seem to understand that (same for the other Dems who voted for it).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;BTW, someone posted earlier that Obama had legislation which said essentially the same as Kyl-Lieberman, but it never came up for a vote. What could’ve been on his mind?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1120361"><em>perris @ 86</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>
…<br />
I guess I am among the few that does not equate “the right to go attack” with attacking prematurely</p>
<p>both clintons gave bush the right to attack if the inspectors said there were wmd’s, bush attacked without those wmd’s</p>
<p>congress NEVER gave bush the right to attack pall mall without evidence and bush never got the evidence and never got the OK from EITHER Clinton</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Technically you’re right. That most senators didn’t read the intelligence reports tell us they didn’t want to know the details. Most all of them voted based on political considerations. Of course, that was the position Rove intentionally put them in. Apparently there was no other real purpose to that legislation since Bush ignored it in the end.</p>
<p>Consider this though, if that authorization didn’t give Bush the right to go to war without UN support and yet he still went, then what signal does the Kyl-Lieberman amendment vote, which also doesn’t authorize war, send to Bush?</p>
<p>We don’t need any unclear shades of gray discussion of war or evidence for war where Bush is concerned. Hillary didn’t seem to understand that (same for the other Dems who voted for it).</p>
<p>BTW, someone posted earlier that Obama had legislation which said essentially the same as Kyl-Lieberman, but it never came up for a vote. What could’ve been on his mind?</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1121976</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1121976</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1120286&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Veritas78 @ 23&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The more I think about this, the more it pisses me off. The Republicans suck up to their base in the most shameless manner, but does any Democrat pay even lip service to us, the most passionate, involved segment of our party? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;More and more, I’m inclined to vote for Dennis Kucinich. He may never be President, but at least he talks the talk.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Trouble is, that vote doesn’t actually get us a non-Republican non-Hillary Dem president.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Please vote for either Edwards, Dodd, Biden or Obama!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1120286"><em>Veritas78 @ 23</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>The more I think about this, the more it pisses me off. The Republicans suck up to their base in the most shameless manner, but does any Democrat pay even lip service to us, the most passionate, involved segment of our party? </p>
<p>More and more, I’m inclined to vote for Dennis Kucinich. He may never be President, but at least he talks the talk.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Trouble is, that vote doesn’t actually get us a non-Republican non-Hillary Dem president.</p>
<p>Please vote for either Edwards, Dodd, Biden or Obama!</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1121962</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1121962</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1120272&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Veritas78 @ 12&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Oh, and how thoughtful of him to defend Bush against “the left.” Like we’ve had any power since  FDR, and we need to be defended against. Screw off, Clintons.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s probably the most damning thing about what he said. Why would he think he should defend Bush?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1120272"><em>Veritas78 @ 12</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Oh, and how thoughtful of him to defend Bush against “the left.” Like we’ve had any power since  FDR, and we need to be defended against. Screw off, Clintons.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That’s probably the most damning thing about what he said. Why would he think he should defend Bush?</p>
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		<title>By: k</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1121294</link>
		<dc:creator>k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 01:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1121294</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The campaign is producing a whole lot of revisionism:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-Clinton claims he was against war but did not say so at the time&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-Rove says congress rushed the AUMF vote in Oct 2002  and wanted war not Bush&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-NPR said this evening that ” The US military underestimated the number of troops needed for Iraq war” - so it wasn’t BushCheneyRumsfeld that fired Shinseki for wanting 300to 500 thousand and kissed Tommy Franks for agreeing to 150,000.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I guess they really do think we are all stupid and cannot bring up their own records and words to throw in their faces- after all it is the blogs that will do it– not the press&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The campaign is producing a whole lot of revisionism:</p>
<p>-Clinton claims he was against war but did not say so at the time</p>
<p>-Rove says congress rushed the AUMF vote in Oct 2002  and wanted war not Bush</p>
<p>-NPR said this evening that ” The US military underestimated the number of troops needed for Iraq war” &#8211; so it wasn’t BushCheneyRumsfeld that fired Shinseki for wanting 300to 500 thousand and kissed Tommy Franks for agreeing to 150,000.</p>
<p>I guess they really do think we are all stupid and cannot bring up their own records and words to throw in their faces- after all it is the blogs that will do it– not the press</p>
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		<title>By: Tanbark</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1120880</link>
		<dc:creator>Tanbark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1120880</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;mailto:SteveAR@104;&quot;&gt;SteveAR@104;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;George BUSH went to Yale.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And Harvard.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="mailto:SteveAR@104;">SteveAR@104;</a></p>
<p>George BUSH went to Yale.  </p>
<p>And Harvard.</p>
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		<title>By: Tanbark</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1120874</link>
		<dc:creator>Tanbark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1120874</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Tex; overall, we have to thank Perot for having Bill for 8 years.   And he was damn sure better than DaddyBush would have been, but whenever we start talking about HIS smarts (forget Hillary’s; she’s fucking up by the numbers…) we need to keep in mind that when the GOP was frantically looking for a stick to beat him with, he was too glandular to keep his hands off the hired help, and thusly handed them a nail-embedded club.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tex; overall, we have to thank Perot for having Bill for 8 years.   And he was damn sure better than DaddyBush would have been, but whenever we start talking about HIS smarts (forget Hillary’s; she’s fucking up by the numbers…) we need to keep in mind that when the GOP was frantically looking for a stick to beat him with, he was too glandular to keep his hands off the hired help, and thusly handed them a nail-embedded club.</p>
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		<title>By: Citizen J</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1120658</link>
		<dc:creator>Citizen J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1120658</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;And yet I’m told I *must* vote for HRC?  Nope, I decline, thanks.  Won’t vote for her.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We don’t need yet another triangulating liar in the WH, and HRC might be worse than Bubba there.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And yet I’m told I *must* vote for HRC?  Nope, I decline, thanks.  Won’t vote for her.</p>
<p>We don’t need yet another triangulating liar in the WH, and HRC might be worse than Bubba there.</p>
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		<title>By: Left DC in 72</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1120652</link>
		<dc:creator>Left DC in 72</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:38:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1120652</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1120635&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;redx @ 180&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Waited for what - if inspections had completed there would never have been a war first of all. That is some stupid Clinton advise - oh do it but make sure you jump through more hoops next time with the dog and pony show.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Gimme a break. The Clintons knew Bush was on go and tacitly supported him through their inaction. Do you really think there would not have been a war based on the outcome of the inspections Where does that hypothesis come from? Powell, utlilizing  the incompetence of Tenet, ignored the inspections, all of them and relied on evidence not derived from the inspections but from Tenet’s slam dunk evidence and analysis. Bush would never have waited for the inspections to have been completed as that “fact” would have been a factor Bush would have had to “dispute”. Clinton saw this and picked a red herring. In no way did the Clintons show any leadership or do anything to stop the Iraq War. Now the MSM should ask Hillary whether “Bill” disagreed or disagrees now with her Iraq vote having not read the NIE. Hopefully, opposition to HRC can push the Clintons out of the race on this latest wordsmithing from “Bill” Clinton. Is that his real name?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1120635"><em>redx @ 180</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Waited for what &#8211; if inspections had completed there would never have been a war first of all. That is some stupid Clinton advise &#8211; oh do it but make sure you jump through more hoops next time with the dog and pony show.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Gimme a break. The Clintons knew Bush was on go and tacitly supported him through their inaction. Do you really think there would not have been a war based on the outcome of the inspections Where does that hypothesis come from? Powell, utlilizing  the incompetence of Tenet, ignored the inspections, all of them and relied on evidence not derived from the inspections but from Tenet’s slam dunk evidence and analysis. Bush would never have waited for the inspections to have been completed as that “fact” would have been a factor Bush would have had to “dispute”. Clinton saw this and picked a red herring. In no way did the Clintons show any leadership or do anything to stop the Iraq War. Now the MSM should ask Hillary whether “Bill” disagreed or disagrees now with her Iraq vote having not read the NIE. Hopefully, opposition to HRC can push the Clintons out of the race on this latest wordsmithing from “Bill” Clinton. Is that his real name?</p>
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		<title>By: NorskeFlamethrower</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1120642</link>
		<dc:creator>NorskeFlamethrower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/28/beg-your-pardon-mr-president/#comment-1120642</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;1,672 dayz and the killin’ goez on and on and..&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Citizen waka waka:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If ya think that an Obama administration would be any different from the one we got now ya need ta take another toke a whatever it is yer smokin’ and then go ask Bobby Rush.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;KEEP THE FAITH BUT DON’T BE STUPID ABOUT IT!!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1,672 dayz and the killin’ goez on and on and..</p>
<p>Citizen waka waka:</p>
<p>If ya think that an Obama administration would be any different from the one we got now ya need ta take another toke a whatever it is yer smokin’ and then go ask Bobby Rush.</p>
<p>KEEP THE FAITH BUT DON’T BE STUPID ABOUT IT!!</p>
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