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I've spent all morning on the phone trying to figure out who the editor at Time Magazine was on Joe Klein's FISA column (the one Klein has now written about five times, fully admitting he never read the original bill). I finally confirmed that the editor was Priscilla Painton, and called her and identified myself. I asked her what the editing process was, and how a piece with so many errors made it into print.
"That assumes that there are errors," she said. And hung up on me.
Her number is 212-522-2022.
Her boss is Time's Managing Editor Rick Stengel. Tomorrow is the magazine's deadline to issue a correction in the print edition that will appear in two weeks (not that the damage hasn't already been done).
Meanwhile, the editor of Time.com is Josh Tyrangiel, the former music editor who is responsible for issuing an online correction to the piece -- which hasn't been done yet either.
I guess now we know why.
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zed!
dontcha hate it when they hang up on you?
Joe Klein is an ass.
wow…my first, and presumably last, zed, on a post THIS GOOD, too–nice work, Jane.
Even after Glenn Greenwald meticulously dismantled Joe KLein’s “journalistic ethics” this editor chooses to look the other way.
We should send her a link so she can read for herself what a train wreck this issue has become.
Hello, Jane…
Called and left a voice mail with Precilla
Are we allowed to use words like “ass”? That’s not too uncivil, is it?
I’ll call that freaking editor–and will be polite.
Well, we’ve wondered for a long time what Traditional Media’s editors were for, and now we know: hanging up the phone when bloggers call.
Time for a blogger ethics panel?
it will be REALLY interesting to see what Time does with something like this…what should come of it is a dialog as to how major American reportage has become so corrupted. what I suspect *will* happen is that Klein takes an early retirement.
Klein’s starting to remind me of Rumplestiltskin.
When is he going to stomp so hard on the floor that he splits in two?
been following this with only one eye.
Can you bullet-list the errors, so when we call we don’t have to recite our own ramblin’ thesis?
I’m all over the issue generally, just cannot put this piece by Klein under the analytical scalpel right now.
Thx
hmmm…seems Salon’s server has been firedogged.
She hung up on Jane? Damn, that is worthy of some phone dialing. As a standard poodle owner, I cannot tolerate this.
Should I cancel my subscription to TIME magazine?
OT/OnT Huffington has up (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/huffpolitics/) another piece on Mayor Bloomberg’s possible presidental run with “indep” Lieberman as a possible candidate. Why is this being circulated again. As with Joe Klein this is not about facts on the ground it is about influencing policy. I see this, as with the NYT connecting O’Hanlan with Clinton on the front page recently, as a “threat” to mount a 3rd party drive for the presidency if EITHER the Dems or the Rethugs opt for a candidate who is against continuing the current Mid East policy. In the Dems case they seem to be suggesting that if anyone other than Hillary gets the nod they will think about throwing a wrench in the works. Bloomberg in the mix would probably provide the same margin of difference as Nader did in the earlier election.
Frank33…jeebus, you still have one?! :)
annagranfors @ 17
My wife likes TIME (and NEWSWEEK).
Richmond @ 16
I think this is right on the money. Very perceptive.
from http://whoisioz.blogspot.com/
let’s keep thanking ted turner for his sellout. give the corporate greed the only real news outlet remaining, sell it so they can effectively kill the brand.
accident? horrible mistake in judgement? fix it.
Novak out with a strong anti Hucklebee column today….accusing him of heresy on tax cuts for the rich issues…The battle between the two major wings of the gooper party may be underway…Bon Appetite!
Well, her response pretty much answers your question doesn’t it?
Time Magazine is so lame.
Oh well, they actually banned me from their crappy little error-ridden blog. In fact they banned me with extreme prejudice — I’m not even allowed to access their webpage to read it.
get ready for the atriot flood!
What was that again about how the GOP/Media Complex is superior to all bloggers because they have editors and fact-checkers and there are consequences for effing up?
Maybe it’s “Say Goodnight, Time.”
I’ve told Firepups in the previous thread to migrate up here. That editor needs to get a few calls.
BTW, I called and got her voice mail. Left a message. She must be getting lotsa calls and has probably forwarded to voice mail or is screening.
I left a voice mail too.
Biodun @ 29
Or she left the building. ;-)
it’s hard for them to know what to print now that KKKarl is gone and there is no leadership at the gooper hq (who is chairman now?) so the message is confused and the editing sloppy.
That assumes that Time practices journalism.
Jokeline Sux @ 25
Ooooh! Good on you! They must be reading your IP address.
sdf (Stu) @ 23
Reminds me of the Bush/Cheney administration approach.
I left Priscilla a friendly voice message, on the matter.
Jim White @ 33
it doesn’t seem as if they’ve been practicing.
Oh, and just because I want to be the first to say it:
Time for another blogger ethics conference!
(/snark)
I left a message. What an idiot.
I called. I chuckled in the intro about how she was too afraid now to answer calls, and left a polite message letting her know that I saw she had hung up on a popular blogger, and that it would influence whether or not I purchased Time magazine in the future(which I do occassionally purchase), unless they chose to do the right thing and printed the corrction.
Elliott @ 37
Nope. But they’ve certainly been executing it.
Joe Klein, acclaimed writer and political columnist for Time magazine, spoke the evening of November 27 to a capacity crowd in Hooker Auditorium. Earlier in the day he had visited the journalism class taught by the magazine’s executive editor, Priscilla Painton ‘80. Introducing Klein, Painton described him as “a man who loves politics, politicians, and his country. He has an extraordinarily romantic view of what politics can be in this country. He always believes that the next election can surprise him.”
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/offic.....amp;full=1
Lets hope circling the wagons progresses into a circular firing squad.
Admitting that errors were made is a sign of weakness.
Sounds like its Time these folks went back to Journalism School! Or perhaps Ethics School.
Same as it ever was.
After 1953, the network was overseen by Allen W. Dulles, director of the Central Intelligence Agency. By this time Operation Mockingbird had a major influence over 25 newspapers and wire agencies. These organizations were run by people with well-known right-wing views such as William Paley (CBS), Henry Luce (Time Magazine and Life Magazine), Arthur Hays Sulzberger (New York Times), Alfred Friendly (managing editor of the Washington Post), Jerry O’Leary (Washington Star), Hal Hendrix (Miami News), Barry Bingham, Sr., (Louisville Courier-Journal), James Copley (Copley News Services) and Joseph Harrison (Christian Science Monitor).[5]
“He always believes that the next election can surprise him.”
I think his impending unemployment may surprise him too.
egregious @ 35
Indeed. A mistake only comes into being when it is admitted to having been one. Very postmodern of them.
re: aye’s Mt. Holyoke quote at 42:
ladies and gennulmen, I give you The Village!
Re: lotsa people leaving voice-mail messages. What did I say in my 29? If anyone actually reaches her, I’m curious how the conversation went.
Joe’s romantic view:
Republicans are manly and brave warrior he-men, Democrats are dirty fucking hippies who loathe the military and hate religion and want to give Osama Bin Laden the Nobel Prize.
-GSD
brendan @ 19
Thanks Brendon. The Huff piece if by someone named Sam Stein. I don’t recognize the name, but they cite various MSM as supportive of a Bloomberg candidacy among these NY Post and US News.
TheraP @ 45
Painton used to teach journalism. Check out the title of her course.
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/offic.....amp;full=1
What goes through a news editor’s mind when a story as explosive as Saddam Hussein’s capture breaks just before her publication is going to press? Is it possible to fact-check a photograph? How do you know when a science story is based on a genuine piece of research rather than commercial promotion? MHC students are pondering these questions and many others this semester in a course titled Can You Trust a Journalist? taught by visiting instructor Priscilla Painton ‘80, executive editor of Time magazine.
…c’mon, TIME. stand by yer man. I DARE ya…
The professional apology has come a long way:
Twenty-five years ago, Tylenol poisoning gave J&J a huge headache. What did its management do? They acknolwedged the problem, even though it wasn’t their doing; they recalled everything from the shelves and destroyed it (didn’t send it to Arkansas or China); they made the packaging more secure and relaunched the brand with an apology. It worked. Saved their reputation, saved their brand.
Since then, a new industry of “crisis managers” and “professional apology consultants” has sprouted and, er, changed the format.
They’ve borrowed a leaf from the books of Darth Cheney, Holocaust deniers and unrepentant alcoholics. They begin and end with denial. They pound the table or slam the phone down with, “What problem? No comment!?!”
Like Bush and Valerie, they imply a thorough investigation took place (note the passive voice), when, in fact, either one wasn’t conducted or its conclusions were spiked. As in Bushville, no heads roll (except whistleblowers). Like “spring water” bottlers from the outflow shores of New Jersey, they smack a new label on the same old shit and put it on the shelves.
Time’s problem, Newsweek’s too, is that there’s a lot more competition than in the days when Henry Luce did it and got away with it week after week.
I bought a subscription to Time my junior year of high school in 1972. I let my subscription lapse last year after having had more than enough right wing spin passed off as news. Unfortunately, I can only cancel my subscription once.
well there is certainly one good thing that’s come out of this entire episode;
we can rest assured it’s gonna be a while before joke line or any other major “journalist” publishes a hit piece untill they’ve done at least a little research
either that or they will shut their comments section down
Besides being hysterically funny, that captures the attitude of the MSM not only toward bloggers but their readers in general. Rather than admit fault, they deny and equivocate. They hide behind the dodge that they are professionals, unlike us, but their professionalism is contentless. At the same time they dismiss us, they feel threatened by us. What is really absurd about this is that if they were doing their jobs they would have no reason to feel threatened by us. Of course, there are some who say that dishing out this schlock is precisely what they are being so well paid to do and what they dislike is not so much doing it but being called on it.
Blue Texan’s upstairs… FDL posts are coming fast and furious this morning. My zed radar is off…*g*
well said, Hugh. another illustration of this bizarre social stratification that separates The Village from, well, humanity.
Richmond @ 16
this is what they would like for us to fear. the truth is they don’t know, and of course neither do we.
it’s a big poker game and it’s seven card stud. no more than three cards have been dealt. who’s to say that bloomberg wouldn’t draw more away from republican voters than democratic voters? he probably would draw more republican voters in states where he would be strong, like new york and connecticut, possibly california and florida.
Quality of journalism seems to be the topic of the morning. In that regard, in the past week, several outstanding commentators, Marcy, Christy, Jane, Glenzilla, and Krugman, have done some awsome (almost tag-team) takedowns of Thomas Friedman, Joe Klein, and Mark Halperin. (It has been truly delightful.) Ultimately, these takedowns are going to have an impact on these folks, because their colleagues have access to the Internet, and this sort of thing make great office gossip. And it looks like Priscilla is in a world of hurt.
BTW: Earlier this moring Glenn Greenwald wrote: “I now know who Klein’s editor for this piece was and I will have much more to say about all of this tomorrow.”
Painton’s reportedly due to leave Time by end of the year.
http://gawker.com/news/the-rev.....311565.php
Also, here’s one take on her from a while ago by Somersby (”Priscilla Painton will do and say anything”–second half of page)
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh041505.html
Christy is going to put a hold on the new thread so stay here.
I just caught Priscilla Painton on the phone! I read Jane’s piece to her, and followed up with this question: “How was the Time editing process able to permit a column with so many mistakes to be printed?” She said that she had told Jane that she “would be happy to comment after Time has published their reply in the print edition.” She also said that this is what she told Jane but that Jane didn’t post that because “she’s dishonest.”
I thanked her for her time (but not the magazine) and wished her a happy Tuesday.
Bitch.
…she what? COOL! :)
The next thread is NOT ready. Don’t even look. Or else.
Biodun @ 59
I’m getting 404′d when I try to get to the comments on that post.
I called and left a very polite message stating that I had read all 5 versions of the article and had yet to find ANYTHING in it that was actually correct.
wigwam @ 62
and don’t forget Matt Bai …..
Mike @ 69
The name of the author? Only Klein himself could really be *this* bad.
Hiya Christy:
Thanks for pulling that post. Now my radar’s back…*g*
egregious–naw. the spelling’s different. J-O-K-E L-I-N-E.
Talk About Alternative Party - In an Alternative Universe, Maybe: U.S. Representative and Democratic Presidential candidate Dennis J. Kucinich (D-OH) said that he was thinking about U.S. Representative Ronald E. “Ron” Paul (R-TX), who is seeking the Republican nomination, as a potential Vice Presidential running mate. The liberal / libertarian fusion ticket would unite two “gadflies” against their parties’ establishment.
DCs Political Report
I’m pretty sure Stengel is the guy who was running around the teevee channels about a year back, crowing about how Joe Klein was “an internet star” because of all the negative attention his idiocy was getting. Good luck with getting through to those jokers.
I am thinking, Joe Klein, Worst Person In The World.
racymind @ 14
Just another reason that proves that Time deserves to lose a lot of circulation. Isn’t there an old adage that refers to not insulting the person that buys ink by the barrel? Either Pricilla Painton was oblivious as to what Jane does or, more importantly, what her “circulation” or audience consists of, or Pricilla didn’t feel competent to discuss any errors in the article, but thought it was incumbent on her to defend it. It seems probable to me that Pricilla is so ignorant that she has a hard time distinguishing between fact and opinion. Perhaps that’s why she thought hanging up on someone with her own following in the tens of thousands per day was the smart thing to do.
fahrender @ 70
I was actually on video phone with Glenn in the background when I was on the telephone with Painton and she hung up on me.
I wish I could find that animated gif of the little guy typing faster and faster until he starts banging his head on the keyboard. That’s a picture of Glenn right now.
I can’t get into comments upstairs - get error message.
Glenn has a post up just now, saying he overheard the conversation with the Time editor… and he confirms Jane’s version of events!
I love how this is going!
From the Daily Howler link:
“PAINTON: Well, yes, she does. But that doesn’t mean that that isn’t influential. I mean, in the sense that when there’s a big debate, usually it’s her funny, amusing, outrageous quips that people walk around–
O’REILLY: Do you think people, Americans, listen to Ann Coulter? Do you think she has influence in public opinion?
PAINTON: I think so. I think the way she sort of summarizes issues and twists them with humor has a big impact. But I also think people read her books.”
Coulter is funny, amusing, outrageous!
But Jane’s dishonest…?
‘Scuse me while I go pound my head on the desk.
What everybody seems to forget is that TIME is not journalism, and by extension, neither are any of its writers. TIME is a product, designed for people who don’t have or make time to be well-read, who don’t read anything unless it has a narrative to keep their interest, and who want to delude themselves and their conversation partners they are current with the events of the week. As a product, it is successful.
As journalism, it sucks.
If Joe is forced to make a correction the next sound you hear will be the talk radio hosts, “Liberals eat their own!”
now that the MSM is starting to realize that Jane Hamsher and Glenn Greenwald and Digby and Driftglass are paying attention there is a real glimmer of hope.
like never before all us firepups need to send energy and love to those who lead us.
egregious @ 71
That’s wrong also: should be Joke Klein.
please tell me either Jane or Glenn captured audio on this…
FYI: Priscilla Painton also edited TIME’s Ann Coulter cover story.
I interviewed her a few months later, after some (more) nasty stuff about AC had come out.
I asked: “Would you change anything about the piece?”
Her reply: “Not a word.”
Glenn provides email address for managing editor:
Painton never believes there are any errors in Time articles.
Even when she admits errors, she retracts the admissions.
Knowingly permitting the commission of a mistake in the conduct of research, and causing the results of research based on false information to be published as true, and, further, not imposing sanctions of any sort on the perpetrators of such intellectual dishonesty, or remaining silent about it, are all separate unethical acts.
They violate key standards regarding research integrity that academic institutions and academic researchers are supposed to adhere to.
Joe Klein — if he were in any reputable university in the world — would have to account for his intellectual dishonesty, as would the institution that harbors him.
As a journalist, Joe Klein is a first responder to history, and should be held to the same intellectual standards regarding integrity and honesty as his academic counterparts. Why not?
So what makes Joe Klein believe that the power he has to (mis)inform millions of people should be held to any lesser standard of integrity? Isn’t there any ethical standard that’s articulated that he has to adhere to? He’s a professional. Aren’t there any professional norms published anywhere that apply to him. Does he just get to lie and misrepresent without being held accountable?
I’ve been reading widely published accounts excoriating him. They constitute a court of public opinion, a marketplace for ideas, true enough. So let the criticisms flourish, and his defenders too, if any.
But in situations like this, one sort of longs for a “Tribunal in the Sky” that could hear the evidence, listen to the arguments, and then confer a collective judgment about the intellectual integrity of the act that Joe Klein has committed. Some form of formal, professional, well-considered condemnation may be called for.
Of course, in an informal way, that’s sort of what’s happening, maybe. Anybody seen old Joe around town lately?
Good on Jane for holding Time magazine and Joe Klein’s feet to the fire. The fact that someone disrespectfully hung up on a phone call is a victory in itself. It is an admission that the Time people have no defense for Klein’s column.
It takes a self-confident man or woman to admit a mistake. Not admitting mistakes in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is a sign of personal and corporate weakness. Their reputations have already taken a big hit.
Time Magazine Circles The Wagons Around Joe Klein
Donner, Party of one?
annagranfors @ 73
I used Joe Klein’s web nickname as the joke line in a post I wrote last Sunday.
Jane,
Just left Ms. Paiton a very nice voicemail explaining that I was shocked by the inaccuracies in the Joe Klein article.
I also said that with a readership of about 4 million Time has a duty to print a correction.
Not holding my breath, but at least they are getting an earful.
TheraP @ 80
So now Priscilla Painton has now resorted to lying as well? Do these people have no shame? How can we believe journalists and their stories when they lie outright about little things like these? *g*
Kagro X @ 89
Aw, that’s an old one. “Once I was wrong: I thought I made a mistake, but it turns out I didn’t.”
Permit me to repeat myself: I spoke with Painton and she basically called Jane a liar. Quote: “That’s what I told that woman, but she’s dishonest.”
fwiw
I guess it should be said that more than likely all of Time’s e-mail addresses follow that template, ie. “joke_line@timemagazine.com”.
just kidding about the addressee’s name, there, though… :)
My impression is that Time, and a lot of the ‘mainstream media’, see their responsibility as to accurately report what important people are saying. Reporting on who is actually telling the objective truth can be sort of interesting, but is not really important because reality ‘is what people make it’ - talking about objective reality is sort of like talking about the ingredients of a good meal instead of enjoying the meal.
A nonsensical interpretation of the role of the press like what I describe in the previous paragraph enables someone like Joe Klein to write, and Priscilla Painton to edit, a column which is blatantly wrong and think that each of them has done their jobs - the column did accurately report what their Republican sources had said (and it even mentioned that Joe Klein had talked to Democratic sources!), therefore, in their view, it is an accurate column. I suspect that they do not really understand what people are upset about. Which, for me at least, explains a lot about why things are so very messed up.
Jane Hamsher @ 78
Jane, the work you, Glenn, Marcy, etc. are doing now is just awesome. God, it’s satisfying to see these bastards get sliced and diced.
From a DKos post, her email is priscilla_painton@timemagazine.com
“I stand by this man. I stand by this man because he stands for things. Not only for things, he stands on things. Things like aircraft carriers and rubble and recently flooded city squares. And that sends a strong message, that no matter what happens to America, she will always rebound—with the most powerfully staged photo ops in the world.”
Stephen Colbert, just a few feet away from George W. Bush, on Saturday, April 29, 2006, at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner in Washington, D.C.
Klein is not like Broder. He’s not oblivious to criticism, even from mere online commenters. He’ll be a shell when this is through.
Biodun @ 95
These people are used to running the show! And they call it journalism.
We should call them:
Well I called and left a message asking if she knew that Klein was bereft of facts when he wrote about FISA and , in fact, did it make any difference to her as editor and or did she know? I left my phone number and asked her to call me back.
I am not holding my breath.
common dedominator @ 97
See Jane’s comment @ #79 and TheraP’s @ #80. Jane has a witness.
Klein’s “work” on the FISA piece is utterly shameful. That he is given any platform at all from which to pretend to be someone worthy of opinionating on the topic is mind-boggling.
Good job, you guys. Good going.
In case it wasn’t clear Glenn Greenwald is the witness!
I have been a subscriber of Time since 1968. It has always been somewhat to the right on all issues, which is why I also subscribe to Newsweek, US News, The Economist, and read other international weekly news magazines online. It takes reading all of them-they all have a viewpoint that they push rather hard(and it takes several hours a week) to get to the bottom-and what the plain unvarnished truth is.I have stopped watching the network news programs(except for Countdown)because they spend so little time on actual news-I remember when the networks had only 15 min. programs every night, one got more news then then we get with a 30 min program- Instead I watch the BBC world news on BBC America, it helps to get a viewpoint from outside the insular realm of american “news” programs. It comes as no surprise to me that most americans pay no attion to either news programs or to newspapers, I have found both networks and the millionaire reporters from inside the beltway are very lazy, they seldom bother to check their facts before writing any stories-the public editor of my daily newspaper is well aware of who I am, I seem to be contacting him several times a week to correct stories that have glaring faults. Keep up the good work ,I read this blog(along with many others, like C & L) on a daily basis. Just keep in mind that you, along with all other sources of news, spin stories to fit your world view. I am not saying it is wrong(as long as the facts themselves are correct)but everyone spins, and getting to the bottom line can be very difficult sometimes.When the so called national news organs-like the NYT and the WaPO- leave out half the statement when quoting someone, then they are no longer newspapers, they become just one more propaganda outlet-like fns and the wsj- If not for the internet, our corporately owned MSM would be much worse than it already is.
My, my, some people can get quite cranky when they are criticized for not doing their job correctly. How many of us in our jobs can get away with being bitchy to customers?
Good job calling bullshit per your post a few days ago Jane.
“That assumes there are errors.” Jag-off. Klein himself admitted his original FISA story was bogus although this admission was, as I said the other day, very pussified. “Yeah, I was wrong. But this is really complex stuff and nobody really understands it and the important thing is my overarching point was right, even if the supporting facts are in the toilet.”
Wasn’t there a time when journalists thought it was their jobs to research and learn about the “really complex stuff” and then explain it to the peoples? That was reporting. No more, I guess. At least not enough. Now they want to be spoon-fed Gerber stories. So we get pureed FISA.
common dedominator @ 97
When you’ve reached “that woman” status, you’ve really arrived.
cleter @ 8