This is their idea of a correction?
In the original version of this story, Joe Klein wrote that the House Democratic version of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) would allow a court review of individual foreign surveillance targets. Republicans believe the bill can be interpreted that way, but Democrats don't.
I guess nobody troubled themselves to actually read the bill itself, which appears to be written in English.
Rush Holt, one of the authors of the bill:
In his original column, Mr. Klein incorrectly wrote, "Unfortunately, Speaker Nancy Pelosi quashed the House Intelligence Committee's bipartisan effort and supported a Democratic bill that - Limbaugh is salivating - would require the surveillance of every foreign-terrorist target's calls to be approved by the FISA court, an institution founded to protect the rights of U.S. citizens only." It contains no such provision.
(Also, as someone closely involved in trying to produce a good bill, I cannot figure out what bipartisan House Intelligence Committee effort Speaker Pelosi "quashed" that Mr. Klein could possibly be talking about. Several Republicans proposed something close to last August's Protect America Act, but that never got anywhere.)
Let me repeat: our bill gives the intelligence community the tools and flexibility it needs to listen to the conversations between those who wish to do us harm. This bill provides exactly what the Director of National Intelligence asked for earlier this year: it explicitly states that no court order is required to listen to the conversations of foreigners that happen to pass through the U.S. telecommunications system. It does not grant Constitutional rights to foreign terrorists.
Time Magazine is in Deborah Howell territory here.
In this twisted view, that is called "balance" -- writing down what each side says. As in: "Hey - Bush officials say that there is WMD in Iraq and things are going great with the war (and a few people say otherwise). It's not for us to decide. It's not our fault if what we wrote down is a lie. We just wrote down exactly what they said." At best, they write down what each side says and then go home. That's what they're for.
That our typical establishment "journalist" conceives of this petty clerical task as their only role is not news. But it is striking to see the nation's "leading news magazine" so starkly describe how they perceive their role.
In reality, they don't even usually fulfill this clerical role fairly or well. After all, Klein's entire column presented only the lies from the Republicans about this bill as fact, and didn't even mention that there was another side (just as Time presented only the Bush view to its readers about WMD and didn't bother to mention that there was another side).
Good for Rush Holt for battling this toxic swill back, but where's Nancy Pelosi? She got smeared worse than anyone, and it is part of her job to uphold the Democratic brand. Silence in the face of these kinds of false accusations lead low information-types to believe that this stuff is true -- and it plainly isn't.
(graphic by alysheba/millineryman)
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Jane!
I know the graphic should say “Time Magazine” but I had to resurrect it from the Deb Days.
Jane!!Jane!!
Jane Hamsher @ 2
“Time Magazine is in Deborah Howell territory here” brought it all together!
Here’s the email I sent richard_stengel@timemagazine.com, under the subject: I guess you’re determined to bury Time over Klein
Pelosi’s silence in the face of these kinds of false accusations leads me to believe she’s complicit.
no, wait, that was “impeachment is off the table” that did that. ha ha. silly me.
JANE!
There you go again! Attacking people for “things they said”! /snark
Now to read the post. /irony
FunnyDiva
juicy quote found at http://whoisioz.blogspot.com/
my favorite is the wingnut post on this that Memeorandum lists, which, if I quoted as “Grenewald is a stinky stink! and so are all teh monebats who like him!!1!”, would be charitable.
It’s clear that Time has the same attitude towards its readers that Time, Inc., had
towards its shareholders when it “merged” with AOL:
drop dead, suckers.
Keep up the good work, Jane.
sporkovat @ 8
Glenn Greenwald does us an invaluable service because he wades through this manure which means the rest of us don’t have to. And of course, he does it so well.
On the issue of fighting this to the bitter end, I view it as a first skirmish in intimidating the MSM from the left the way that W et al have intimidated them from the right. As Hillary sez, you’ve got to “clock ‘em.”
Would it be considered a form of civil disobedience to remove issues of Time magazine in doctors’ offices (while visiting for legitimate reasons)?
I don’t think the air in this country has ever being so stagnant.
annagranfors @ 6
Nancy Pelosi rose to her level of incompetence on her chops as a fundraiser, not a legislator. I think her silence is less complicity than cluelessness.
TIME should run the entire Rush Holt piece. I hope he’s asked them to. It’s the least they can do. Priscilla??
And where is Pelosi, anyway? Does she expect Glennzilla and Hamsher to fight her battles just because of a inordinately nice Book Salon review of Christine’s book last Saturday?
Congresswoman, you have been slandered by Joe Klein. Stand up and fight, please!
Anna Belle @ 13
Go for it. Speaking of personal acts of rebellion, just watched a wonderful film: The Edukators. Gives me hope.
Damn, Jane. You go right to the heart of the issues. Thank you for not beating around the bush - er, sorry about that!!! I mean, thank you for beating the Bush - always!
jesus. that’s the problem…we don’t have to just impeach Bush/Cheney, we have to impeach the entire friggin’ status quo.
the good thing is that I’ll bet it’s a house of cards. maybe if we just push this…one…here…
Hello again, Jane. I missed reading your thoughtful words.
But there is hope. Even “low information types” don’t bother to read.*snicker*
carolyn urban @ 17
And if just one person stole Time magazines from doctors’ offices, they may think she’s well, and they won’t take her. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony… :D
Anna Belle @ 13
It’s the same as asking that the channel be changed from FOX Noise.
Jane, you are one of the very best bloggers out there! Another great piece, complete with snark and an appropriate illustration!
Sorry to be OT so early, but must watch Keith. EPU’ing from last thread:
GordonM @ 97
Anna Belle @ 13
Brilliant. I will do from now on.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 14
yeah, it’s getting Harder to Breathe
um, no offense, but even though I’m down with removing Time from doctor’s offices and even turning it upside down in the checkout line, I think protests at the Time offices (or, short of that, a continued barrage of phone calls and e-mails) would be even better.
Steve Kelso @ 25
True Confessions: I do this with evangelical religious pamphlets in my doctor’s waiting room, at the clinic, laboratory waiting room, etc. Have you noticed how political evangelical pamphlets are?
annagranfors @ 27
richard_stengel@timemagazine.com
Just one big beltway reality show… ugh!
Way past time for the Dem leadership to change the script and insist on real retractions or just shut the offenders out completely.
On Olbermann’s Countdown - Time’s Jonathan Alter is not bad. Newsweek’s Richard Wolffe is God-awful. Both magazines represent right-wing warmongering viewpoints. Thanks for calling them out, Jane. You and Christy must fill the shoes of Kurt Vonnegut, Molly Ivans, Hunter Thompson and many others whom have left us. Thanks for your good work.
I heard some of NPR this morning, and they were talking about Grand Bushatolla’s “Piece Summit.” This post is so timely because I was thinking about this excuse the lazy media types use of presenting “both sides.” There was no “…but Democrats say Boosh’s statement is not true.” How often do we ever hear that during stories about Bush, Cheney or other Republicans activities? Not much. It’s a given during any report about something Democrats are trying to do. In fact, the Republican opposition is usually portrayed in a better light than those darn irresponsible Democrats.
I used to work full time in Conglomerate Media, and occasionally still do as a freelancer, and this drives me crazy! You hear this all the time.
I always point out that there are many more than just two sides, and often with a little scrutiny, one of these “sides” starts to seem much closer to some sort of truth than any others. That’s what we’re supposed to do, isn’t it? Find the truth to the best of our ability?
That’s why I’ve always liked the “stenographer” theme that’s used around here. That’s literally what much of the Conglomerate Press thinks their jobs are.
The “both sides” excuse is not only lazy, it’s just not true.
RickinSF @ 15
Don’t make me choose, for clearly both are in play with her.
hackworth @ 31
Speaking of which, Ariana smacked down KKKarl’s BS from Rose’s show…
Or perhaps just mark the copy with GOVERNMENT PROPAGANDA in black marker on the cover.
Steve Kelso @ 25
No-no-no. No theft of property, please. Either write in the margins something like “False. Not based on fact,” or “Read the act–it says no such thing,” or the like, or bring post-its to do same.
CTuttle @ 34
Sorry I missed it. Always good to get some good news, Thanks for that. Ariana is a great woman.
Anna Belle @ 13
Maybe print out a few copies of Glenn’s column, highlight the good parts, and slip them inside the magazines, right next to Joe Klein’s piece.
Ding!
Hypatia @ 36
A B.S. rubber stamp with red ink would do nicely.
bonkers @ 32
Well.. at least some MSM headlines on the same subject are, well, funny:
AP: “Bush: ‘Worth it to try’ on Mideast peace”
um.. yeah.. Despite their complicity they still can’t make him sound presidential.
Hypatia @ 36
So I guess setting them on fire is right out.
Nancy Pelosi on FISA, 11/15/2007
Joke Line = Joe Klein. He is a kind of fake liberal that makes real liberals look bad. IOW, he’s not a liberal at all. He’s a right winger posing as a liberal so as to make liberals look as stupid as he is. Donna Brazille and Alan Colmes also come to mind.
I’m still trying to wrap my head around that “correction”. It’s like a bratty little kid being forced to apologize, and issuing forth the most robotic, unconvincing “I’m sorry I set your waiting room on fire” imaginable.
heh heh. Not as far as I’m concerned, though fire fighters probably wouldn’t like it.
How about taking the copy of TIME into the loo and using it to, well, you know, wipe up crap?
Blub @ 41
Worth It To Try. What a god-forsaken mess of semantics. Worth It to elect an idiot.
hackworth @ 44
My question is, how much of the Democratic caucus is also in this category?
And does Shrum count, or is his contribution limited to securing electoral losses?
TIME will tell…
…lies
Eli @ 45
No, wait, my bad. It’s more like the ever-popular “I’m sorry you’re ugly” apology.
Eli @ 45
Hey, it matches their idea of “reporting” and “fact-checking.”
Peterr @ 51
“The Democrats told us we were wrong, but the Republicans told us we were totally okay, so we’re just going to print this to make ourselves look like responsible journalists while continuing to steadfastly ignore the plainly obvious truth.”
Eli @ 48
Count Shrum among the fakers. He might as well be working for the Republicans directly. Shrum and Brazille are two peas in a pod. Alan Colmes is only slightly worse. At least Colme’s role is totally obvious to anyone with a functioning frontal lobe.
Eli @ 52
Pretty much.
(spit)
FunnyDiva
Hi, Punaise!
Atrios chimes in: “Democrats believe that Rick Stengel (richard_stengel@timemagazine.com) and Mickey Kaus have regular threesomes with a goat, while Republicans believe Mickey has a strictly monogamous relationship with his goat.”
He also links to Glenn.
Gee, do you think I could get a job editing at Time?
howza, FunnyD…
Eli @ 52
By George, I think he’s got it.
Kagro X brings up an interesting point:
Just gets the head spinning…
Peterr @ 58
Yes, but I want ‘em to take it back and give me a refund!
FunnyDiva
Joss Whedon knows those reporters are stenographers and not real writers. Had a nice little dissection on Nov 7 of a NYT piece on the strike. Heh.
Hugh @ 56
That the FISA bill in its original form from 1978 does everything needed to tap anyone’s phone lines as long as a court knows about it later, is not presented to the public in any way. This is a travesty.
Not all news is bad news and not all news is cynical. There are some surprising developments among characters I associate with ill repute. Recently, the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) released a report on Smart Power. This approach calls for a revitalization of non-military tools to address threats and challenges to U.S. national security. These recommendations are a step in the right direction. If adopted, the Smart Power proposal could help the U.S. move towards a foreign policy that works to prevent deadly conflict by addressing root causes and stave off violence before it materializes. http://www.csis.org/smartpower
Sniffing out another potential Lott scandal. From http://www.harpers.org/archive.....c-90001782
((((((QUAKER GIRL)))))
Where have you been, girl?!
So, do you think Howie Kurtz will take this up at the WaPo? Editor and Publisher? Newsweek? Poynter? PressThink?
Perhaps a little spotlighting is in order . . .
eCAHNomics @ 64
And, prosecuted Big Tobacco…
Very, Big Tobacco.
Loo Hoo. @ 65
Good to hear from you Loo Hoo. I missed you. I needed to tend my garden, bake, listen to classical music, meditate and rethink a few things out so I could wrap my head and heart around matters. You know, clear out cobwebs and replenish the spirit.
Loo Hoo did you see eriposte’s latest?
The Special Interests of Obama and Clinton
link
It’s quite good..but I am a sucker for data and references rather than one line zingers.
Steve-AR @ 69
So, Steve-AR, does that make you a DataHead instead of a DittoHead?
FunnyDiva
So many blogs, so little time
hackworth @ 62
Spotlight looseheadprop’s post
Peterr @ 66
Markos might very well take it up. But now that “the person that will make your head explode” is blaming congress for starting the war too early, well…what do you say?
newtonusr @ 67
Scruggs sounds like a character in a southern novel by an Oxford author.
Loo Hoo. @ 72
I just splutter with incoherent amazement and indignation, which is pretty much the desired reaction.
I’m hoping to turn that into coherent amazement and indignation at some point tonight…
QuakerGirl @ 63
The co-chairs for the report are Richard Armitage and Joseph Nye. I heard them discuss this on a Charlie Rose show. I would have to read the whole report but I am wary.
QuakerGirl @ 73
So does Trent Lott for that matter. And they are characters. They should be cartoon characters.
Another very good post by Scott Horotn-Elections as Art
http://www.harpers.org/archive.....c-90001769
Loo Hoo. @ 72
Yup. And we lost in Southeast Asia because we left Vietnam __too soon, right?
The blinding speed of the Revisionist Wing of the Wingnut Wurlitzer is, well, blinding. It’d be breathtaking if it didn’t knock the wind outta me every time!
FunnyDiva
1,671 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Great posts tanight, sister Jane, but we here shouldn’t be all that surprised at the extent of corruption of the corporate media…after all, they been lyin’ to the public for decades and have been speakin’ in code to each other in the beltway. What has made them dangerous and powerful is that the common folks out here have never had an alternative to the lies…and now they do. Jest as there is a movement of progressive politicians willin’ ta put themselves out there and give the common folks real choices, so too we have alternative voices in the “free” media of the internet who offer the masses a choice and , VOIALA the common folks aren’t stupid and they’re eatin’ it up.
It’s time to start advancin’ the idea that corporate capitalism is not the only date available…indeed, with this new progressive politics growin’ from the bottom up (which I like ta call “democrazy”) we should be pushin forward a view of a new relationship between democratic politics and free economics that makes corporations and the mercantilism of money obsolete.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T BE AFRAID THAT CALL A SPADE A SHOVEL!!
Another one bites the dust. I guess I am doomed to have “progressives” slash their throats again and again.
Norske
Our
an opposed to their demockracy.
Hugh @ 75
Hugh, so am I. I have so much distrust of these players. I intend to observe carefully while not dismissing them out-of-hand. I am focusing on the purpose and mission statement because players tend to retire, get replaced, get a new job. I intend to keep my eyes wide open.
Funnydiva2002 @ 70
Maybe..but my starting point is that the top three Dems are politically the same and if dogmatic statements are made, I like to have at least a link so I can check for myself. Outside of policy, I think Obama is different because of experience and judgment.
upstairs for Eli
Steve-AR @ 83
Oops. Forgot to add a little wink-y emoticon. Just trying to do a Punaise and falling flat.
And I have no problem with your fact-based approach!
FunnyD
Republicans believe the most clearly written laws are subject to wildly different interpretations so their point is well taken. Bush could decide to interpret this law in that way. Bush also could decide to move to Pakistan and become Ossama’s fourth wife.
All kidding aside, if the law is passed and signed Bush will ignore it. This law, any law that doesn’t involve appropriations and dispersement now is without meaning.
1,671 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen eCAHNomics and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
I came up with the term “democrazy” because democracy is really a very old and crazy idea whose time has come…in addition, I reached back into the great heroic past to the “YIPPEE” politics of the 60’s and 70’s to try and create a political vocabulary of hope and opposition to advance the revolutionary vision of those Enlightenment giants of the late 18th century America.
“Democrazy” also contains within it the old idea of ECONOMIC democracy…an idea whose day has certainly arrived.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE GOD DAMNED AMMUNITION I AIN’T GUNNA STAND HERE ALL BY MY SELF!!
Funnydiva2002 @ 85
I knew it was a *g*, I just used it for a rant about zingers without support..”we” are better than that.
OT
I’m going to Dan Lungren’s town hall meeting tomorrow night. Any questions you guys want me to ask him?
marymccurnin @ 89
Did your momma have any children who aren’t wolverines?
If they are gonna make this ridiculous claim, they should at least get some republican on the record saying that Black is White.
To say “some Republicans” say that Black is White is pretty frickin’ feeble.
damn. i’m sorry i missed this thread (was researching obama and the kyl-lieberman amendment for the previous thread)….
i’ll just add one thing - the thomas link for the text of the restore act is broken (in jane’s post at - “I guess nobody troubled themselves to actually read the bill itself, which appears to be written in English.”).
here’s a permanent link for h.r.3773.eh (thomas is a pain in the ass with the temporary links)…. just in case joe klein stops by and when reading jane’s post decides to click on the link and take a look at it… *g*
marymccurnin @ 89
Yeah, ask him when Democrats are gonna start calling people like Joe Klein out on his BS. And why do they cower in fear of a guy who has approval ratings that are in Nixonian levels.
The link to the text of the bill expired as do all Thomas search results. Here are permanent links to HR 3773:
1. xml (which can be opened in firefox and opera for mac, safari, tho, there are character conversion issues, and perhaps some windows user agents)
2. pdf
Jane, being as they can’t read and all…. well, perhaps they thought you meant they should issue a “concoction”. They seem pretty adept at that. Its the only explanation for what they’ve done there.
“Bless their hearts” :-|
I read Glenn earlier today and just laughed. Jane and Glenn shredding Time. Enjoy enjoy.
I remembered a month or two ago I was reading the letters to the editor in Time and there was a letter of ‘correction’ from Senator Brownback’s wife protesting Time’s description of her. She detailed her degree(s) and work history etc because Time had evidently completely misrepresented her history. I remember when I read it, I thought that it was typical of today’s journamalism- they can’t seem to bother with fact checking: they just repeat propaganda. Evidently no one’s computer at TIME has a search button.
Other email addresses at Time, Inc
rick_stengel@timemagazine.com
josh_tyrangiel@timemazine.com
prisilla_painton@timemagazine.com
joe_klein@timemagazine.com
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 93
Lungren tain’t a Democrat…so he’ll likely say that the Dems won’t call Klein out because it’s not BS…that the Dems got caught out on requiring warrants on furrin’ terrorists overseas. And that the Dems fear Bush ‘coz he’s close to God.
That’s what Lungren might say.
I’d ask him about why the surge has failed…after a year there has been no evidence that the political reconciliation between Sunnis, Kurds and Shi’s can really be found. In fact, the surge has actually turned into a system of turning over areas to local Sheiks are warlords rather than the Iraqi NATIONAL Gaurd. In the South the British are no confined to the Basra Airport, handing the area over to militias. In the Sunni Triangle and Anwar it’s turned over to Sunni militias. In Kurdistan they have started making their own deals with private oil companies because no National Oil Program can be agreed upon in Baghdad.
Even Republican Senators agree that there has been little or no progress politically and are threatening to cut off funds.
So if the “surge” has worked best in those areas where the US troops have actually pulled out, and there has been no progress politically, how can we say the “surge” has suceeded? And shouldn’t we simply realize that the “last best chance” has actually failed…and let the raqi’s sort it out for themselves and withdraw?
sporkovat @ 8
This person’s point-of-view could not be more wrong. I don’t even believe this writer could have been sincere, because to use words like “schtick” and “terrifying” to describe Greewald’s steadfastly patriotic insistence on disseminating the truth in an era when that simply isn’t done could only be — from any half-intelligent adult — a childish tantrum and is patently absurd. Even with this extraordinary an example of utter sham journalism by our country’s “premier newsweekly”, there’s been absolutely no outcry (”Hello? Speaker Pelosi??”), no wave of national concern or attention paid to match what we would witness tomorrow, courtesy of 24-hour-a-day coverage on every “liberal” cable news outlet, if any B-list celebrity were caught with his pants down. Until the so-called sleeping giant wakes — if it ever does — the very greatest praise and gratitude should go to those who expose the rampant corruption which is sadly at the heart of our once-respected mainstream press.
You seem happy to characterise this as the GOP disagreeing with Democrats over interpretation of the bill. Greenwald seems happy to do that 728 times over a dozen updates to 4 posts.
Is anyone going to mention the disagreement that Klein cites?
Namely that those who use FISA also disagree with Democrats?
That would seem to be a little more relevant no?
As for the “it’s written in plain english, anyone can interpret it” claim, you might want to read this…
http://balkin.blogspot.com/200.....posed.html
…and realise Joe Klein actually comes off ahead of you, Greenwald and everyone else in the responsible comments stakes for stating he doesn’t have the necessary legal background to interpret FISA definitions.
Like you just found out you don’t.
Forthcoming retractions? Corrections? Apologies?
Yeah, let’s hold our breath.
Um… are you sure it’s the “surge” you wanted to ask him about?
What does the situation you describe have to do with the insertion of 30,000 extra troops, let alone constitute a measurable assessment of it?
Where’s Pelosi?
On the floor, wrestling to keep Impeachment down as it tries to climb back on to the table.