Look, I wish we’d just leave the Iraqi’s the fuck alone. I mean we owe ‘em some big time dollars for bombing the piss out of the ir country. But we should just get out and give it to ‘em. If they wanna kill each other, that’s their prerogative. I mean violence, civil wars are not uncommon and it’s happening even know while we’re there. And maybe they won’t. I mean Bush used to brag about how he just didn’t agree with people who said brown people couldn’t have democracy. So let ‘em.
I just remember that story i read a week or so ago which would be funny if not so crazy where the Iraqi’s were thanking Iran for improved security. Aparently they hadn’t gotten the “Iran is bad” memo.

my bold

the biggest democracy in the world is comprised of 1.2-1.5bn brown peoples of many religions, languages (21 of 38 recognised by the UN) and oh peopleS

and one of the really great things too would be the million new iraqui widows and 3-5 million iraqui orphans.
and all that depleted uranium ammo casing leaking into the marshes and waterways and soil.

oh man. victory is sweet.
wait. victory over what? for what?
oh hell who cares. we’re all marching to the walled city in our brains and we’re gonna tear it down brick by brick.

let’s chew somebody up on the way there.

The narrative in the msm is that despite all of the left’s gloom-and-doom Bush turns out to have been right and the surge is succeeding, witness the casualty statistics for the past few months. “The left was wrong, and it’s time for them to admit it.”

We know that this is not correct, but we need a consistent one-or-two line response.

After we found there were no WMDs every time we killed an Iraqi it was a war crime. Bush is a war criminal.

Since we discovered the evidence for Iraq possibly having WMD was forged fake documents our invasion was illegal. Bush is a war criminal.

Holding innocents in Abu Ghraib and torturing and killing them is a violation of American and international law. Bush is a war criminal.

We must leave Iraq.

siri @ 76

I hate the way the rethugs have redefined this whole issue to whether or not WE ARE WINNING. And I HATE the way the dems and others just fall into the bs hole!

I DON’T GIVE A RATS ASS if ANYONE says we are “winning” or not. Iraq was never ours to win. HELLO?

What about the little fact that WE NEVER SHOULD HAVE GONE THERE TO BEGIN WITH???????

AND WE NEED TO LEAVE! NOW!!!!!!

We need to get the hell out of Iraq. PERIOD. Let them work out the logistics of life after Saddam, and the US needs to be standing by, READY!, waiting for the go ahead and the security to return FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE of making reparations for the supreme blunder that was the US invasion. THAT’S THE ISSUE!

NOT whether or not we’ve “won anything”! It was never ours to win, we are fighting to stay, nothing much else, and NEED TO LEAVE!

I HATE this “redefinition” and false argument and “oh look! a SQUIRREL” k-wrap that the RETHUGS KEEP PLUGGING, and everyone KEEPS JUMPING INTO.

IT’S RIDICULOUS! And the Dems who we trusted and placed in power are so blind!

Could not SOMEONE keep an eye on the original ball here, PUHHHLEASE?

WE NEVER SHOULD HAVE GONE THERE TO BEGIN WITH, WE SHOULD HAVE LEFT THEM AND SADDAM ALONE! AND NOW WE NEED TO GET THE HELL OUT, AND STAND READY TO MAKE REPARATIONS AND ETERNAL APOLOGIES.

also, the FIRST MONEY spent there to rebuild??? SHOULD come directly out of Bush’s, Cheney’s, Rove’s, Rumsfeld’s, Rice’s, Wolfowitz & bud’s, AND ALL THE OTHER’s (”architect’s”) PERSONAL checking and savings accounts and any other listed asshole’s assets!

Goooood Gaaawwwwd!!!!
siri@legitgov.org
http://www.legitgov.org

bold mine.
great comment, siri.

unfortunately, the leading (D) candidates, most obviously Clinton, fully buy into the framework that led to the debacle in Iraq, they just wish it had been better managed.

it would seem that such candidates would be beyond the pale and unsupportable to folks who sincerely oppose the war and are grief stricken at the horrible human suffering it has caused.

many here however feel that we are obligated to support the Least Worst in national elections, even if they are saber-rattling their readiness to start an even worse war against another country that poses no threat to the USA.

I don’t support “least Worst” Clinton, but the top 3 Democrats are exponentially better than the tired old ridiculous Republican white men.

I hate the way the rethugs have redefined this whole issue to whether or not WE ARE WINNING. And I HATE the way the dems and others just fall into the bs hole!

I DON’T GIVE A RATS ASS if ANYONE says we are “winning” or not. Iraq was never ours to win. HELLO?

What about the little fact that WE NEVER SHOULD HAVE GONE THERE TO BEGIN WITH???????

AND WE NEED TO LEAVE! NOW!!!!!!

We need to get the hell out of Iraq. PERIOD. Let them work out the logistics of life after Saddam, and the US needs to be standing by, READY!, waiting for the go ahead and the security to return FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE of making reparations for the supreme blunder that was the US invasion. THAT’S THE ISSUE!

NOT whether or not we’ve “won anything”! It was never ours to win, we are fighting to stay, nothing much else, and NEED TO LEAVE!

I HATE this “redefinition” and false argument and “oh look! a SQUIRREL” k-wrap that the RETHUGS KEEP PLUGGING, and everyone KEEPS JUMPING INTO.

IT’S RIDICULOUS! And the Dems who we trusted and placed in power are so blind!

Could not SOMEONE keep an eye on the original ball here, PUHHHLEASE?

WE NEVER SHOULD HAVE GONE THERE TO BEGIN WITH, WE SHOULD HAVE LEFT THEM AND SADDAM ALONE! AND NOW WE NEED TO GET THE HELL OUT, AND STAND READY TO MAKE REPARATIONS AND ETERNAL APOLOGIES.

also, the FIRST MONEY spent there to rebuild??? SHOULD come directly out of Bush’s, Cheney’s, Rove’s, Rumsfeld’s, Rice’s, Wolfowitz & bud’s, AND ALL THE OTHER’s (”architect’s”) PERSONAL checking and savings accounts and any other listed asshole’s assets!

Goooood Gaaawwwwd!!!!
siri@legitgov.org
http://www.legitgov.org

bold mine.
great comment, siri.

unfortunately, the leading (D) candidates, most obviously Clinton, fully buy into the framework that led to the debacle in Iraq, they just wish it had been better managed.

it would seem that such candidates would be beyond the pale and unsupportable to folks who sincerely oppose the war and are grief stricken at the horrible human suffering it has caused.

many here however feel that we are obligated to support the Least Worst in national elections, even if they are saber-rattling their readiness to start an even worse war against another country that poses no threat to the USA.

If we were wrong, why have nearly 4,000 troops died in the “cakewalk”?

And why have about 30 died this month?

And why is it STILL costing us more than $2 billion dollars a week?

And why are there still 168,000 troops there?

(The 5,000 have not left yet, as I understand it.)

Shorter: If you assholes think that drawing down 5K troops from the 30,000 troop surge means that you were “right”, then you need a brain transplant.

These people are SO freaking desperate to try to get the voters to start drinking the koolaid again, that they will say anything.

Aint gonna happen.

Siun @ 24

Pete – “political gains” is a tricky term. The goals set are often not in the Iraqis interests … like “pass the oil bill” so lack of “progress” is understandable.

I saw a report somewhere today that we’re now going to “help the Iraqis spend the money in the new budget” that we want them to pass… argh

I take your points, Siun, and no doubt the US’s heavy hand is in every vote and the planning for them that the Iraqi parlaiment will be taking for years, but there does seem to be a good deal of intransigence in their decision making.

As I think we’ve all noted, many times when Iraq comes up on a thread, these shallow media feel good articles about the surge (that remind me of the press’ lameness in the buildup to Iraq) the refugee problem is huge with the number of displaced refugees who can’t get work in any middle eastern country and can’t get into the US growing exponentially every day.

The Bushies never mention the refugees nor do the Republican candidates for President. I didn’t hear one peep on it out of McCain this morning on ABC.

I wish I could get an accurate count of how many permanant mega bases and the near billion dollar embassy (before its over–$600 million was the last figure I saw) that reminds me of the Boston dig.

in case you missed this video/youtube The bases Are Loaded. IIRC, I think we have 21 mega bases in Iraq.