After several weeks of “it’s getting better news” the spinmeisters are making even bigger claims.
We’ve got “troops coming home from Iraq!” (of course it’s only 5,000 and that leaves over 162,000 not counting mercenaries.) And “refugees are heading home!” – but you have to look hard to find the UNCHR report that:
According to a survey done by our staff in Syria, there are many reasons for returns to Iraq other than considerations of improved security. Of some 110 Iraqi families UNHCR spoke with in Syria the majority said they are returning because they are running out of money and/or resources, face difficult living conditions, or because their visas have expired. As a result of recent visa restrictions, a number of Iraqis have been unable to shuttle back and forth between Iraq and Syria to get additional resources, make some money or collect food distributions or pensions. The incentives offered by the Iraqi government of some $700-$800 to return home, as well as free bus and plane rides, have also played a role in returns. The survey also highlighted that this is the first time in recent years that Iraqi refugees are actually discussing return, which was not the case a few months ago.
UNHCR staff also did quick interviews with returnees in Baghdad, who cited economic difficulties caused by their long displacement as a major reason for going home. Many had run out of or nearly depleted their savings. Some returned as it was the last chance to get their children back into Iraqi schools before the end of the first term. Some were indeed encouraged by the reports regarding improvement of security, but many expressed concern about longer-term security, citing the fact that militias are still around and many areas remain insecure. People have mainly been returning to areas where they feel that local security forces are working properly and are maintaining control.
Still, conservative editorials tout all this success!
Something remarkable is happening in Iraq. A war that America and its allies seemed in danger of losing just a year ago now appears to offer a far more hopeful prospect. The reasons for this dramatic turnaround are varied but, taken together, they provide realistic hope that the U.S. mission in Iraq can yet succeed.
(snip)
The U.S. commander in Iraq, Gen. David Petraeus, and his deputies are properly cautious about all this, warning there is still a long way to go. But it’s just as clear that recent months have seen stunning progress.
The UK’s Gordon Brown is upbeat:
“I think, in Iraq, that – while there have been huge difficulties in previous years and it is undoubtedly the case that this has divided public opinion right across the world, whether in Australia, Britain or America – people are now seeing Iraq in a different position from where it was even a few months ago,” he added.
Even a leading Democratic advisor is singing this song in the New York Times article “As Democrats See Security Gains in Iraq, Tone Shifts.” One of Hilary Clinton’s foreign policy advisors – our old friend Michael O’Hanlon says:
“The politics of Iraq are going to change dramatically in the general election, assuming Iraq continues to show some hopefulness,” said Michael E. O’Hanlon, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution who is a supporter of Mrs. Clinton’s and a proponent of the military buildup. “If Iraq looks at least partly salvageable, it will be important to explain as a candidate how you would salvage it — how you would get our troops out and not lose the war. The Democrats need to be very careful with what they say and not hem themselves in.
All this good news of course ignores some key facts:
During an Oct. 30 House Appropriations Committee hearing regarding a recent Government Accountability Office study that found that overall attacks in Iraq have declined, director of international affairs and trade, Joseph A. Christoff told the committee that the GAO’s figures do “not tak[e] into consideration the fact that there might be fewer attacks [on civilians] because you have ethnically cleansed neighbourhoods.”
Or as David Swanson says more strongly at After Downing Street:
If you kill and exile and segregate and imprison enough Iraqis and then fudge the reporting on the violence, what will happen? The New York Times will claim success…
Perhaps the comment by Mohammad Sammy, an aid worker for the Iraqi Red Crescent, to Ali al-Fadhily, Dahr Jamail’s Iraq based colleague about currrent conditions in Fallujah sums it up best:
“You, people of the media, say things in Fallujah are good. Then why don’t you come and live in this paradise with us? It is so easy to say things for you, isn’t it?”
Photo: Taken by the GorillasGuides team, the photo above – “Scenes From An Iraki Childhood – Waiting for food charity Basrah” shows a recent food distribution in Basrah. The team notes that the recipients line up as follows: Children who are orphaned, then widows with children, then widows. Follow the link to see the tiny amount of food they receive when their turn comes. Perhaps a few of the surge cheerleaders would like to subsist on the equivalent for a week or so – it might help sharpen their understanding of all this “improvement.”
PS: Two videos worth checking out:
Howie passed this around in email last week – Art of Mental Warfare
and Amnesty International’s new Unsubscribe campaign.
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Sad. And mission accomplished for the cabal.
No one talks about why we were ever there in the first place, which then follows why should we be listening to the same people who started this madness. Also, they’ve successfully linked al-Queda to Iraq as well, simply by repeating it ad nauseum.
Wake up America!
Of course, since things are going so well, it seems like a great time to leave.
Hugh – I’m with you! Declare victory and leave!
of course, the better it gets, they say the more reason to stay – and the definition of better is so wrong
“the U.S. mission in Iraq can yet succeed”
“not lose the war”
What do these phrases even mean!?
I commented on this in the last thread. The media are as usual buying the White House narrative on Iraq just like they have for the last 5 years. Having bought into the most recent spin, they can’t understand why there is no political settlement. Everything is going like gangbusters on the battlefield but somehow the Iraqis just don’t move on even the most basic political issues. Just inexplicable. The idea that the White House narrative on Iraq is wrong has not entered their darkest dreams. Their attitude is that after being wrong for the last 5 years Bush couldn’t be wrong again, right? I mean what are the odds?
PhysioProf @ 4
I think they mean the quagmire will continue.
You should note that those women in the third photograph are risking their lives.
Hugh @ 5
The MSM is in the tank with the Republicans. GE, Murdoch, Disney, Viacom, et al. They are in on the game – pretending that all is well save for a few dead-enders and the lazy Iraqi government. Were the MSM independent, it would be calling for impeachment.
Erdla @ 7
The guides photo link in the post doesn’t work for me.
I guess they are bailin’ cause Howard lost his behind.
There is only one word left to describe what we are witnessing….
Power and the abuse thereof!!
Eureka Springs – direct link to post:
Scenes From An Iraki Childhood – Waiting for food charity Basrah
Iraq and Afghanistan are really very simple even though the very brightest [cough] of US political analysts don’t seam capable of understanding the fundamental situation: while the US political idiocracy keeps kicking the can 6 months down the road looking for their ponies so everyone can finally go home, the fighting factions in the area actually LIVE THERE – THEY ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE.
The local fight goes on in spite of the US presence, which really has no affect other than as distraction. The local factions all know – ALL KNEW LONG AGO what the idiocracy apparently never realized – that all the locals ever had to do was wait out the occupation – THAT THE OCCUPATION IS UNSUSTAINABLE and before long the US will be gone and they can have at each other.
The ONLY THING THAT HAS CHANGED in 6 years with hundreds of thousands dead and massive destruction everywhere is that Hussein is no longer in a position to oppress the Shia.
.
LS @ 10
At least there’s that good news. The Right Winger Howard is out. Canada didn’t go well, nor did France. Spain did well. Now the Aussies are wising up. Any others?
Erdla, That worked, thank you. Can you tell me more about the women?
hackworth @ 12
Poland, and the French are all on strike…they’re not buying Sarkozy…I’m thinkin’ our “2000″…but that’s just me…
Hi Erdla!
Fixed the link so folks should refresh their pages.
They are volunteers for a charity in Basrah Eurkea spring if you look at the posting:
http://gorillasguides.com/2007…..ty-basrah/
You will see tags. Try clicking on the Basrah (City) tag and scroll down a bit. You will very quickly see the threat they live under.
Hmmmm…things are breakin’ loose:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…../#comments
The world is sick and tired of this transparent tyranny.
Hugh @ 5
I posit that there’s nothing different about how the mega-Media has operated in the last 5 years, as it has in the last 20-30 years. And they know damn well exactly what they’re doing.
Unions bad. Regulation bad. Carter Bad. Liberals are tax and spenders. Just the mere term “Pro-Life” being allowed to take hold in our national discourse.
Raygun good. Iran-Contra and following pardons….oh, nevermind about that. Republicans are the responsible ones who are concerned about “family values” and on and on…
This has been a long road for the neocons to construct these dominant narratives, but they have succeeded. My entire life has been ruled by these false statements.
How the mega-Media has handled and continues to handle our Iraq Occupation is nothing new. Bringing the quest for truth back into journalism is perhaps the main battle we need to fight IMHO. If we succeed, then the chances of future neocons winning elections is greatly diminished.
There are less attacks not only because of so many ethnically cleansed neighborhoods, but because some of the neighborhoods in some towns are abandoned–nobody’s there.
The NYTimes has hopped on the bandwaggon this week:
U.S. Starts First Major Pullout From Iraq
As Democrats See Security Gains in Iraq, Tone Shifts
There have been no political gains whatsoever in Iraq with the Maliki puppet government which is par for the Condi-Bush course.
Poland, and the French are all on strike…they’re not buying Sarkozy…I’m thinkin’ our “2000″…but that’s just me…
It ain’t just you. Sarkozy won in a squeaker did he not? I forgot to mention Mexico. Their populist progressive presidential candidate was edged out by a US backed right-winger. The Mexicans protested for months – they may still be protesting – but one has to seek out such information. I haven’t checked lately. The right wing Harper in Canada had big US support via clandestine US operatives – religious types - raising hell in the streets against abortion and gays.
Nicaragua elected US pariah Daniel Ortega, in spite of heavy US involvement – big money backing a whore for the US.
Unfortunately for Costa Ricans, Costa Rica’s Arias seems to pander to the US – while Chavez in Venezuela and some others in South America are becoming more oriented to serving the needs of their own people.
siun.. excellent topic. yep, whenever they start talking in unison it’s pretty clear the think tanks are behind the talking pts.
here’s how i see it, the ’surge’ was another name for the ’soft’ partition. the ptb don’t like to talk about their REAL goals becasue people don’t like them, hence we got treated to a little ‘divide iraq’ talk directly before congress talked about it but not alot since.
now the ’surge’ is starting to show effects. in other words, what we have in baghdad is ‘lets jail the neighborhoods’ and not that they are prepared, come back!
al-fadhily isn’t the only one saying that. read this post by iraqi blogger 24 steps appropriately called..
Why don’t you go then?
i recommend the entire post.
moving along, one more thing i thought i would mention, is these propaganda artists are not wasting any time. just yesterday i read in nyt the ‘unity’ idea is off for now wrt iraq, they are going to focus on regioal election, governors. iow more separation.
Pete – “political gains” is a tricky term. The goals set are often not in the Iraqis interests … like “pass the oil bill” so lack of “progress” is understandable.
I saw a report somewhere today that we’re now going to “help the Iraqis spend the money in the new budget” that we want them to pass… argh
PhysioProf @ 4
it is to make monkey boy look less imbecilac imo
annie! great info – thank you so much!
sorry for those typos, that was supposed to say, noW that the neighborhoods are jailed, come home. like voluntary imprisonment. baghdad is a conglomeration of little palestines.
also, another gufaw.. i meant we heard about the divide slightly surrounding the congressional vote.
Followed quite well annie – and today was my day to have mangled links and such so I sympathize!
Folks should definitely check the AI Unsubscribe campaign – very very powerful.
sadly yes @ 25
One day, when it is no longer important, the monkey will admit that he don’t know nuthin’. Never did, never will.
Look, I wish we’d just leave the Iraqi’s the fuck alone. I mean we owe ‘em some big time dollars for bombing the piss out of the ir country. But we should just get out and give it to ‘em. If they wanna kill each other, that’s their prerogative. I mean violence, civil wars are not uncommona nd it’s happening even know while we’re there. And maybe they won’t. I mean Bush used to brag about how he just didn’t agree with people who said brown people couldn’t have democracy. So let ‘em.
I just remember that story i read a week or so ago which would be funny if not so crazy where the Iraqi’s were thanking Iran for improved security. Aparently they hadn’t gotten the “Iran is bad” memo.
However Monkey Boy looks, it seems the powers that be plan to get what they want – control of Iraqi oil and a long term outpost with all those lovely big bases (which of course, we’ll only use for fighting terrists doncha know)
Amazingly enough the Irakis agree with you. I don’t have the link to hand but the last opinion poll on just this topic in Irak. 90% of Irakis wanted the invaders out. If you go through the GAO reports, and the various reports the pentagon put out you’ll see that 90% of all attacks in Irak are on the invading forces and their allies.
Erdla @ 32
Right. Exactly. It’s just that sometimes, for all the talk about policy and this bill or that bill this seems so obvious and I just get pissed that if nothing has been done by now to end this war………
hackworth @ 28
That is his alibi….he knew. He knew…he knew …he knew. He knows.
Why else would they hide everything?
Why is everything executive privilege…why, why, why????
Why is the Constitution being constantly violated??? Why? Why?
Why did they not want an investigation of 9/11? Why? Why?
Why is the new AG the same AG that was the person involved in the first WTC attack. Why?
Why did the Bin Laden family get flown out of the USA, immediately following 9/11??? Why?
Why can’t we talk about these things????
Why can’t we get to the information about the RNC emails…why? Why?
Why did W commute Libby’s sentence? Why? Why??
Why? Why? Why?
Why can’t Sibel Edmonds testify to Congress? Why? Why?
Beerfart Liberal @ 33
Its all Kabuki. The democracy issue is crap. The neocons do not want Iraq to have a democracy if it means that the US and its corporate interests are cut out of Oil deals. There can be no sovereign Iraq. There can be no independence. Through Bushco, the US intends to call all the shots.
BTW, I only wrote “9/11″ two times in my comment.
W uses it numerous times in all of his speeches, as does Giuliani, so don’t get on my case about it.
Okay? :)
So 90 percent want us out, all the way out, and we have yet to strong-arm our way into oil deals.
And Bushco says things are looking up.
LS @ 34
That’s so….Shatner-ish.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OGpNjf6mDPM
LS – noted!
The one thing that concerns me with your list is that I don’t see this all as a W initiated situation. We were doing awful things to Iraq under Clinton and Bush 1 etc … our current occupation is like the culmination of years not simply a W scheme. And if we don’t look at that history, we risk missing the real changes we need to make.
bonkers @ 37
Bwahahahahahhaha!!!!
Siun @ 38
Yes!!!! Don’t even get me goin’ on that….believe me…;>
I think bi-partisanship is the answer.
LS: All great questions that should and could be answered if we had more and better Democrats in charge at the moment.
so true! this is the long term pnac plan. that is why they are holding so tight to the plan. it is for a permenant US presence in the ME. the only problem is the population? why can’t they just be happy being occupied and controlled?
Let’s get this into perspective.
Michael O’Hanlon is a foreign policy advisor to Hillary Clinton, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, an affilliate member of the Saban Center on Middle East Policy, a signatory of PNAC’s Second Statement On Postwar Iraq, published March 28, 2003, i.e., two weeks after the invasion of Iraq.
A few months ago, O’Hanlon traveled to Iraq on a DoD junket along with Kenneth Pollack, resarch director of the Saban Center, and author of The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq, published in 2002, some months before the invasion. Upon their return, their return they wrote a NYT op-ed entitled: “A war we just might win” touting the progress of the surge. Subsequently they appeared in many TV interviews touted as “liberal war skeptics.”
The Saban Center is funded by Haim Saban, an Israeli multibillionaire and a fund-raiser for Hillary Clinton. He is quoted as saying, “I’m a one-issue guy, and my issue is Israel.”
Martin Indyk is the Director of the Saban Center and is listed and another of Hillary’s foreign policy advisors.
Frank33 @ 42
Seems to be an affliction that’s worked it’s way throughout the entire Pelosi family.
lol, how about tri partisanship? frankly as long as we have neocon lobbiest controlling both sides, they will unite against us.
This is not W-initiated…he is just a part of a huge movement (maybe not so huge)….they want us to believe it is huge, and it is powerful, I concede that…but…
to quote KKKarl…”fundamentally flawed”….
Unless….unless…they pull off an attack on Iran. That is the key…if they fail, they fail entirely..if they succeed…well..we’ve got a real “monkey” on our hands…a real monkey….not a “chimp”….which is it?????
I say…take no chances…work toward peace…impeach, now…tie them up in “proceedings”…JMHO
wigwam – encouraging, eh?
Seeing his comment made me steam … and why is he the appointed NPR foreign policy interview – I don’t listen to NPR hardly ever but everytime I seem to hear him pontificating some more.
Frank33 @ 42
Obama agrees with you:
The Ideology to Bipartisanship Ratio
Open Left
Siun @ 49
This guy is a fucking piece of work.
Glenn Greenwald did one of his Glenzilla numbers on O’Hanlon and Pollack after they published their NYT editorial say five months ago. Ripped him to shreds. The guy is a pathetic charlatan. And, per the Wikipedia entry on his buddy Kenneth Pollack:
I tend to think that this Saban Center does not hold the welfare of the United States as its highest value.
re: recent book salons at FDL.
that guy today, Anderson, wow. just incisive and right on the ‘money’ (sounds like a bad pun but it wasn’t meant to be).
ms. pelosi yesterday with exhortations to make political involvement in democracy ‘wholesome’…
uh, *cough*
I was sorry to miss the salon today … heard it was great!
wigwam @ 45
yeah sure but hey code pin should still be tasered right??????????????????????
Yay Victory!
siun, haifa zangana was interviewed on cbc radio a couple days ago.
she said there are a million iraqui widows now courtesy of the invasion.
that doesn’t sound too much like ‘progress’ does it?
Hugh @ 2
LOL.
pay people to line up at the ‘goodbye parade’ with flowers in their arms!
Mabel’s … precisely.
The attempt to make us all forget the reality and now go “well, that was bad” (what did Gordon Brown say …”difficulties”) “but phew, that’s in the past and now we can move on”
Then there’s this …
American-backed killer militias strut across Iraq
Here’s a link to the Haifa Zangana interview which Mabel’s mentioned above:
CBC interview – see part 2
Siun @ 56
There is only ever, Now.
hackworth @ 22
I’m not too sure about the operatives in the streets of canada part raising hell against the gays and abortion.
after all, homosexual marriage in canada is legal.
So let my get this straight we are winning because the militia’s and the criminal gangs have killed or intimidated large segments of Iraq’s population. Bankrupting both the US and Iraq, and setting the stage for even more horror in the middle east and central Asia (if I understand the snips above). Well what ever these folks are smoking or drinking, must be very powerful to get that delusional. How anyone could take so much pleasure for so much suffering is beyond my imagination, to feel so justified, well I’ll stop here.
What we all fail to realize is that the surge has been a success: http://www.military.com/opinio…..80,00.html
So, of course, now the troops can come home. Okay?
What? What’s this long-hard-slog shit, Ambassador Crocker? We’ve won. Mission accomplished. Right?
the “long hard slog” of Crocker – more wishful thinking, eh? can’t let it look too good or folks in congress might actually cut off funding!
DId anyone else see the new CNN tearjerker profile of one of the Haditha guys? We’re rewriting history really really fast.
Siun @ 24
Hi Siun,
Good post and I like your responses to coments.
My two cents: this kind of propaganda PR dynamic is not unexpected. What normal person who can find their way to the store and back home again could not see it coming? I am barely in that category and I could see it coming. I think any problems corporate Dems have with this is because they are scared to think and talk big picture.
I believe that if Dems have guts to talk big picture they win, because even with violence down to current levels, very few are willing to see just 1 or 1.5 troops lost per day, and billions wasted on any conceivable strategy Cheney-Bush could articulate. For most voters, that kind of cost for a vicious buccaneer goal of using violence to control oil market and to try to dictate political and strategic posture of ME regimes wrt US is just unacceptable.
But to target that particular Cheney-Bush problem, you have to have a vision and guts to articulate it. Unfortunately corporate Dem establishment, and front runners have neither. Maybe if Richardson or Dodd were in top tier it might be different.
But when I get depressed about it, I focus on what can make a real difference in 2008, and that is lots of new and better Dems in House and Senate. Save your bucks for contributions.
Economy will suck next year. I also think that it is lose lose for Cheney Bush policies in Iraq. Suppose that violence stays down (and I hope it does), voters will begin to notice that Cheney-Bush will still be incapable of formulating and stating coherent goals, strategy, or tactics for achieving either. I believe that will be because Cheney-Bush know it will be political suicide to state their real goals plainly, since those are immoral, patently stupid and counter-productive. At least I think they are to a normal person. Well, to a normal person not in the grip of unreasongin fear. So I guess they will try fear mongering again.
wigwam @ 64
Great, finally we can have our party to celebrate. We would have had the Victory Party last year except for the defeatocratic dirty freaking hippies. Thank you taxpayers for the $20 million dollar party!
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/…..LHPGN1.DTL
If every fucking syllable of the “good news” were true (and we all know it isn’t) the question that the warpimps cannot, will not, answer is this:
What makes you think that without keeping enough troops to sustain Baghdad and the rest of the hotbeds of factional violence in the status of rabbit-warrens of concrete barriers and checkpoints, that the “stability” can be preserved?
Or, do you assholes plan on keeping a large, permanent occupation force there?…and if you do, we’ll remind the voters of that, in OUR talking points.
and 150 soldiers that have returned from Iraq are committing suicide. (from Codepink)
thanks wesgpc … guess one of our jobs it keeping people mindful of reality?
and Frank – I had never seen that party fund info … argh!
Yeah, that’ll work.
They can lie all they want; but they cannot make reality in Iraq. That will out, over the next year, and when it does, the bullshit will stink that much worse.
The narrative in the msm is that despite all of the left’s gloom-and-doom Bush turns out to have been right and the surge is succeeding, witness the casualty statistics for the past few months. “The left was wrong, and it’s time for them to admit it.”
We know that this is not correct, but we need a consistent one-or-two line response.
EvilDrPuma @ 72
I will wager (loser pays Blue America PAC) 100.00 that Bush throws that party before he leaves office.
I hate the way the rethugs have redefined this whole issue to whether or not WE ARE WINNING. And I HATE the way the dems and others just fall into the bs hole!
I DON’T GIVE A RATS ASS if ANYONE says we are “winning” or not. Iraq was never ours to win. HELLO?
What about the little fact that WE NEVER SHOULD HAVE GONE THERE TO BEGIN WITH???????
AND WE NEED TO LEAVE! NOW!!!!!!
We need to get the hell out of Iraq. PERIOD. Let them work out the logistics of life after Saddam, and the US needs to be standing by, READY!, waiting for the go ahead and the security to return FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE of making reparations for the supreme blunder that was the US invasion. THAT’S THE ISSUE!
NOT whether or not we’ve “won anything”! It was never ours to win, we are fighting to stay, nothing much else, and NEED TO LEAVE!
I HATE this “redefinition” and false argument and “oh look! a SQUIRREL” k-wrap that the RETHUGS KEEP PLUGGING, and everyone KEEPS JUMPING INTO.
IT’S RIDICULOUS! And the Dems who we trusted and placed in power are so blind!
Could not SOMEONE keep an eye on the original ball here, PUHHHLEASE?
WE NEVER SHOULD HAVE GONE THERE TO BEGIN WITH, WE SHOULD HAVE LEFT THEM AND SADDAM ALONE! AND NOW WE NEED TO GET THE HELL OUT, AND STAND READY TO MAKE REPARATIONS AND ETERNAL APOLOGIES.
also, the FIRST MONEY spent there to rebuild??? SHOULD come directly out of Bush’s, Cheney’s, Rove’s, Rumsfeld’s, Rice’s, Wolfowitz & bud’s, AND ALL THE OTHER’s (”architect’s”) PERSONAL checking and savings accounts and any other listed asshole’s assets!
Goooood Gaaawwwwd!!!!
siri@legitgov.org
http://www.legitgov.org
$20m for Mission Accomplished Day. Seems appropriate what I want to know is how much of that money will go to the photoshoppers and video editors ……
Teddy’s upstairs talkin’ ’bout Harry Reid!
Erdla – good question!
Erdla @ 77
we have always celebrated victory in iraq and afghanistan….
Siun @ 24
I take your points, Siun, and no doubt the US’s heavy hand is in every vote and the planning for them that the Iraqi parlaiment will be taking for years, but there does seem to be a good deal of intransigence in their decision making.
As I think we’ve all noted, many times when Iraq comes up on a thread, these shallow media feel good articles about the surge (that remind me of the press’ lameness in the buildup to Iraq) the refugee problem is huge with the number of displaced refugees who can’t get work in any middle eastern country and can’t get into the US growing exponentially every day.
The Bushies never mention the refugees nor do the Republican candidates for President. I didn’t hear one peep on it out of McCain this morning on ABC.
I wish I could get an accurate count of how many permanant mega bases and the near billion dollar embassy (before its over–$600 million was the last figure I saw) that reminds me of the Boston dig.
*poof*
Pete Pierce @ 81
in case you missed this video/youtube The bases Are Loaded. IIRC, I think we have 21 mega bases in Iraq.
What Siri said. In spades.
Wigwam; here’s my response:
If we were wrong, why have nearly 4,000 troops died in the “cakewalk”?
And why have about 30 died this month?
And why is it STILL costing us more than $2 billion dollars a week?
And why are there still 168,000 troops there?
(The 5,000 have not left yet, as I understand it.)
Shorter: If you assholes think that drawing down 5K troops from the 30,000 troop surge means that you were “right”, then you need a brain transplant.
These people are SO freaking desperate to try to get the voters to start drinking the koolaid again, that they will say anything.
Aint gonna happen.
siri @ 76
bold mine.
great comment, siri.
unfortunately, the leading (D) candidates, most obviously Clinton, fully buy into the framework that led to the debacle in Iraq, they just wish it had been better managed.
it would seem that such candidates would be beyond the pale and unsupportable to folks who sincerely oppose the war and are grief stricken at the horrible human suffering it has caused.
many here however feel that we are obligated to support the Least Worst in national elections, even if they are saber-rattling their readiness to start an even worse war against another country that poses no threat to the USA.
a href=”#comment-1116272″>sporkovat @ 86
I don’t support “least Worst” Clinton, but the top 3 Democrats are exponentially better than the tired old ridiculous Republican white men.
wigwam @ 74
After we found there were no WMDs every time we killed an Iraqi it was a war crime. Bush is a war criminal.
Since we discovered the evidence for Iraq possibly having WMD was forged fake documents our invasion was illegal. Bush is a war criminal.
Holding innocents in Abu Ghraib and torturing and killing them is a violation of American and international law. Bush is a war criminal.
We must leave Iraq.
The narrative in the msm is that despite all of the left’s gloom-and-doom Bush turns out to have been right and the surge is succeeding, witness the casualty statistics for the past few months. “The left was wrong, and it’s time for them to admit it.” —wigwam @ 74.
and one of the really great things too would be the million new iraqui widows and 3-5 million iraqui orphans.
and all that depleted uranium ammo casing leaking into the marshes and waterways and soil.
oh man. victory is sweet.
wait. victory over what? for what?
oh hell who cares. we’re all marching to the walled city in our brains and we’re gonna tear it down brick by brick.
let’s chew somebody up on the way there.
what have we done and however can we atone for all this
Beerfart Liberal @ 30
my bold
the biggest democracy in the world is comprised of 1.2-1.5bn brown peoples of many religions, languages (21 of 38 recognised by the UN) and oh peopleS