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1. Joe Klein uses Republican committee staffers as his sources;
2. Joe Klein accepts the word of said Republican staffers without question;
3. Joe Klein doesn't bother to contact Democrats before writing about their proposals;
4. Joe Klein doesn't bother to actually read the bill he's writing about;
5. When challenged on abject factual inaccuracies in his column, Joe Klein only compounds the misery and makes things worse;
6. Time Magazine includes only said inaccuracies in their print edition, no correction.
7. This is the only thing Time Magazine's 4 million subscribers are going to read:
Speaker Nancy Pelosi quashed the House Intelligence Committee's bipartisan effort and supported a Democratic bill that — Limbaugh is salivating — would require the surveillance of every foreign-terrorist target's calls to be approved by the FISA court, an institution founded to protect the rights of U.S. citizens only. In the lethal shorthand of political advertising, it would give terrorists the same legal protections as Americans. That is well beyond stupid.
8. ...none of which, except for the "Limbaugh is drooling" part, is true.
Considering that one of the Democratic Presidential hopefuls is eventually going to emerge from the pack and have to start fending off the Republicans instead of each other, it seems like now might be a good time for them all to start fighting back about how easily Republican propaganda makes its way into the headlines -- much to their detriment. They are the ones who are ultimately going to have to push back against the "Democrats Soft On Terror" meme, and really, there are more practical ways than voting for a bellicose amendment put forward by Joe Lieberman with the transparent agenda of launching a war against Iran.
We don't have a "left wing attack machine," we've got a few bloggers, a couple of radio personalities, a handful of authors and journalists and some candidates who have the spotlight at the moment.
I mean, come on. "It would give terrorists the same legal protections as Americans?" Some Republican spinmeister fed that to him whole. Klein just managed to swallow it. Why is Time Magazine letting the guy who said this write about FISA anyway:
People like me who favor this [NSA wiretapping] program don’t yet know enough about it yet. Those opposed to it know even less — and certainly less than I do.
The moment is ripe for someone to call "bullshit."
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Dump Joe Klein!
Jane!
While the whole thing is teeth grindingly annoying, I have say I laughed at this one:
It’s always true, isn’t it?
Jane!! I’m with you.
It’s Bullshit.
Bushit!
maybe they actually support
and that’s why they voted for it.
how about them apples?
I’m afraid the moment is ripe for someone(s) to call “bullshit”. and again. and AGAIN. (just a little bit louder now) AND AGAIN.
calling bullshit just the once makes us feel good for a little while, and then it gets swept under the Village carpet, and then it may as well have never happened.
“And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
Jane, just a comment on your appearance on C-Span. You really know your stuff, and have the perfect demeanor for dealing with extreme right-wingers. You are a truly impressive speaker. My own public speaking style is similar to yours–casual yet precise–and I know how difficult it is to do well.
And Klein really is an idiot. It’s so annoying to have to constantly deal with right-wingers I know throwing out “Well, even your liberal pundits say blah, blah, blah…” after they read garbage like that.
Jane,
Perfect timing. I’m starting to write an essay about a wingnut welfare column in today’s Anchorage Daily News. The column asserts “Several studies, even a recent one by Harvard, document a strong left-leaning media bias” in the media.
I’ve been looking for information on a recent Harvard study, but can’t find any. Anybody reading out there know about a Harvard study that claims the media is biased to the left?
Well, I’ll call.
Me: Dial, dial, dial.
Joke Line: Hullo…?
Me: Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit!
Joke Line: Ma, is that you?
I don’t understand why politicians can’t just come right out and call someone a liar. Do people make honest mistakes? Occasionally, yes. But the hallmark of an honest mistake is that you try to fix it as soon as you realize you were wrong. If you don’t, you’re either a liar or a moron. So go ahead and call Joe Klein a liar. If it turns out that he’s made a series of honest mistakes and subsequently makes a serious effort to correct them (e.g. “Special Time Supplement: Joe Klein’s Innacuracies, ‘Primary Colors’ to Present”), then you’ve made an honest mistake. And you should atone for it by saying, “I’m deeply sorry that I called Joe Klein a liar. He is not a liar. He’s a moron. I regret the error.”
Uh, BULLSHIT! Why JokeLine even gets air time is beyond me. He and Dangerstein represent a greater threat to our Republic than the Terrarists™ because they get media exposure virtually at-will and can say any damn thing they want unchallenged or with no fact-checking at all.
If the American Free Press were actually (1) Free and (2) “the Press” we might be getting a different story than we are. To paraphrase a disreputable public official… “you go into an election cycle with the press you have…” which is a real fucking shame.
Jane, I think you just did! In fact, I think this blog and several others have several times already. It’s kinda like, if you say it long enough, and loud enough, sooner or later, it will become accepted fact! Think that’s how the Rethugs do it!
Hey Joke Line!
BULLSHIT
And ya ain’t even a good bullshitter at that. It’s way too easy to catch you out in your lies then watch you squirm and try to finesse ‘em. As someone said the other day, you need to go back to being “Anonymous.”
Great post Jane. Joke is also taken down a huge notch by Glenn Greenwald. Damn fact-checking, intelligent, non-beltway villagers.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/index.html
Ed*ard Teller @ 9
Center releases new report with Project for Excellence in Journalism.?
cited from Harvard study is an indictment of the media.
Why is Time Magazine letting the guy who said this write about FISA anyway:
Because it suits their purposes that he do so.
Something must be wrong at Time-Warner to employ people like Joe Klein and Glenn Beck.
Joke Line. ‘Nuff said.
“We thought, because we had power, we had wisdom.”
Stephen Vincent Benet “Litany For Dictatorships” 1935
Gosh, yet another instance when I wish I had a subscription to Time-so that I could write them that I was cancellng it.
tw3k @ 16
Bush graduated from Harvard and Yale. That ranks these two institutions just below my local Community College. Harvard study. Heh.
The moment is ripe for someone to call “bullshit.”
How? Clearly, Time doesn’t care what we think, or they would have fired Klein a long time ago. I already don’t subscribe or even read that piece of trash (unless I’m stuck in a dentist’s office and the People magazines are even older).
As the article Alice referred to explains, Klein’s a useful idiot. He’s not going anywhere unless we can make Time, Inc., suffer for having him.
tw3k @ 16
Yeah, I’ll bet that’s what the guy is referring to. Interesting information:
Most of that difference in tone, however, can be attributed to the friendly
coverage of Obama (47% positive) and the critical coverage of McCain (just 12%
positive.) When those two candidates are removed from the field, the tone of
coverage for the two parties is virtually identical.
I have located the new headshot for this hacky, rightwing clown that we call Joke Line.
-GSD
Ed*ard Teller @ 23
The “news” covers someone who’s camera-friendly and charismatic more positively than someone who’s foul tempered and not very popular in his own party, and that’s a liberal bias? Yes, that’s probably it - and pretty typical of the sort of analysis one sees in op-eds these days. You have to wonder if there’s anyone left in those places who understands the rules of logic.
Marcus Aurelius @ 21
lol.
Here is pew’s side of the joint study.
whatevr happened to Deans’ rapid response idea? Another dem idea that good old rham killed! And remember, we are only in the “Primary” period! Can you just imagine what is going to happen once the election campaign starts?
Marcus Aurelius @ 21
Additional Harvard Grads:
Alberto Gonzales
Cookie Krongard with honors!
JokeLine’s lament; it should top every column, blogpost, and book he writes. In fact, it should be engraved upon his tombstone.
It is utterly JokeLine.
Hi
I have some friends that swear that everything Joe and Tommy write is the truth for they are the Liberal Media. Scary.
jo6pac
More media skullfuckery.
Syria has announced plans to attend the Annapolis summit. This is reportedly a ‘victory’ for George W. Bush.
How long ago was it that Speaker Pelosi was vilified for speaking to the Syrians?
Now that Daddy George says speaking with Syria is not akin to negotiating with evil the media breaks out the fluffing lips.
-GSD
Ed*ard Teller @ 23
OMG! extreme lefty bias! Commies guna take over.
From Bill Moyers.
When I read this I had to ask myself: what has changed?
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20071210/moyers
i ‘ve been thinking about this a lot because i don’t think liar or moron covers all the possibilities - it’s just happens too frequently for me not to want to understand if there’s not something in human nature that makes us all susceptible to repeating something a trusted source (maybe even a friend) tells us - and when that “info” is show to be inaccurate we get defensive instead of stepping back evaluating what is real and what is not.
i think his dismissive comment about the inaccuracies not being all that important is telling because i see this a lot. when the inaccuracy itself can no longer be defended, the last defense is: well, it’s not important anyway.
so, i wonder… is it perhaps human nature to respond as klein did - as an ineffective attempt not to defend himself, but out of loyalty to whoever fed him the inaccurate info? personally, i think it’s much easier to admit i screwed up and harder to say i trusted someone i shouldn’t when i know that person/friend would be hurt.
grasping at straws here… and not so much trying to explain klein but the larger cultural phenomena. why do we see this happen so frequently?
This cartoon (Mother Goose & Grim) from today’s funnies seems remarkably apropos.
And here I am grappling with understanding the two-thirds rule in the House, and actually looking for reliable sources.
Fuck that - I’ll just ask the cat…..
That’s a nice thought, Jane, but you know perfectly well it’s not going to happen. Ol’ Joke Line is one them: a member in good standing of the Beltway Insider/Cocktail Crowd, and the Dem “leadership” view this kind of abusive lying shit as being a legitimate part of the price of admission. They shrug it off, and why not? It’s well understood that the lies aren’t about them so much as they’re about us. And policing the rabble - that is, the Democratic base - is the real job of the Democratic “leadership”.
eCAHNomics @ 20
I got to enjoy that experience over their Ann Coulter cover a few years ago…
Because in the Village, its the narrative that matters, and the facts will be shoehorned to fit the narrative.
What Klein is really saying is “Even if I knew the facts, I would have written the same column, because I can’t think outside the ‘Republicans strong on nat’l security, Democrats weak’ framework.”
***********
The people who should be raising hell are Pelosi, Conyers, and Reyes, since they are the ones responsible for this bill’s passage. The GOP was bound and determined to get telecom immunity into this bill (it was the only substantive amendment offered by the GOP in either the Judiciary or Intelligence Commitees), and the Democrats were just as determined to keep it out. Klein’s assertion that a bi-partisan bill was possible is simply false. (And lets not forget how the White House turned its back on the McConnell compromise a couple of months ago. )
excellant point jane, time democrats to start calling the media right wing with a corporate agenda
and we can make it stick too
when the republicans started spouting the rubbish about the “liberal media” the media went soft on republicans so they wouldn’t look “liberal”
however, facts happen to be liberal in most case when it comes to politics
this is because liberals are people driven not agenda driven, we look at the facts, the likely results and we form our opinion
republicans fabricate an opinion that will suit profit
therefore, facts are almost always liberal like it or not
for instance, if there are government documents which demonstrate the president is lying us into war it is NOT “ballanced” to deny the existence of the document, that is lying
so we need to start at every wake and call to call the media what it is
a corporate owned, right wing media complex that spins politics toward their agenda of profit and control
get a load of this from raw strory;
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/....._1125.html
thompson is finally taking some viagra and using some long lost testosterine, he’s taking it straight to fox for their unending support of rudy
perris @ 40
shorter perris;
democrats form their opinion around the facts
republicans gather facts to support their opinion
things i didn’t know yesterday:
Nearly two-thirds of Americans think it is possible that some federal officials had specific warnings of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, but chose to ignore those warnings, according to a Scripps Howard News Service/Ohio University poll.
too bad norman mailer doesn’t have another book left in him.
he could ‘debunk’ this nonsense and pin it all on oswald.
What I didn’t know yesterday?
Well I didn’t know that Ron Paul had huge holdings in Gold and Silver Commodities and Mines.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pfd.....6_Pres.pdf
And that Congressman Ron Paul has repeatedly advanced legislation calling for an end to taxes on transactions in gold and other precious metals!
And that Paul has called on the Federal government to allow private firms to issue gold and silver legal currency.
He has introduced the bills to abolish the Federal Reserve Board so “America can return to the type of monetary system envisioned by our Nation’s founders: one where the value of money is consistent because it is tied to a commodity such as gold.
He proposes legalizing gold and silver as legal tender and parallel currencies, such as gold-backed notes issued from private markets and digital gold currencies.
All of this is very interesting given his heavy investment in gold and other precious metal mines and commodities
Also fascinating is the recent raid on a firm that sells Ron Paul Gold $20 Denominated Coins that are supposed to be ideal for trade when the US government of economy collapses.
Jane–I agree with you. The Democratic candidates, or rather all Democratic Representatives, need to start calling b.s. when they see it perpetrated on the media.
That’s two reasons why I am currently not supporting either Hilary or Obama. They have the spotlight on them They could call out the b.s. but they don’t. They could implement the policies right now–even if they got vetoed. But they don’t. They could sit at the mic on CNN and say, “Stop lying to the American people…” but instead they say one thing, then they don’t show up to vote or they vote the opposite.
And it’s another reason why Kucinich is looking better and better. He has the right policies and he has the balls to call them out on their b.s.
In my opinion, the stronger we can make Kucinich as a competitor, the more we can force Obama and Hilary to lose their own b.s.
Jane (or moderators_ for readers who are seeing this column in the far future (like Monday, for instance, it’s probably better to use the permalink to Greenwald’s article, rather than the link you used in the first point.
p.lukasiak @ 39
thanks paul. the reason i think it’s important to consider why this happens is that if it is human nature (and i think it is) to be unconsciously susceptible to doing the same thing - i want to work on being aware of the possibility so i can try to prevent myself from falling into the same trap.
cinnamonape @ 42
How about Ron Paul’s neonazi connections? Here’s one link but you’l find a who bunch if you google it.
http://wizbangblog.com/content.....is-etc.php
cinnamonape @ 43
And this is the guy the Kucinich would consider running with? (at least according to his wife).
By now Joe Klein and his editors have to know that people are looking over Klein’s shoulder and will call him out on shoddy reporting.
The fact that even now Klein isn’t more careful to at least get the basic facts right, or Klein’s editors still don’t fact check his reporting, is very revealing.
The Village is a strange place.
hey everyone, faiz has a very nice post up at think progress right now and I have to post one of the best, most sustinct quotes I have seen to date regarding “9/11 conspiracies”
of course before the quote faiz links to the facts which of course show unequivically that the warnings were ignored
a great quote
ron paul seems rather………….ominous
Wordsmith @ 36
Do you mean for the Veto? That’s in Article I Section 7.
Every bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a law, be presented to the President of the United States; if he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the objections at large on their journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the bill, it shall be sent, together with the objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a law. But in all such cases the votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, and the names of the persons voting for and against the bill shall be entered on the journal of each House respectively.
And this is the guy the Kucinich would consider running with? (at least according to his wife).
someone better get some info to dennis’s wife!!!
I don’t usually sports blog at fdl, but…..
One good reason not to watch football on TV in Alaska - the power went out for a minute with the clock stopped and the ball on the one-foot line in the Rams-Seahawks game. By the time the satellite signal was re-acquired, the game was way over.
Fern@47 & cinnmonape@43
Ron Paul’s a real nutcase-much nuttier than the wingnuts. He’s popular because he’s anti-war and I’d guess that 99.9% of his supporters haven’t a clue about his other positions. Short version: died in the wool libertarian, including wanting to disband the I.R.S. Only role of govt is to protect the country., etc.
I haven’t paid much attention because he won’t get the nomination, but I was sure surprised when Kucinich’s wife said they could be running mates. There’s no excuse for her not to have done her homework before making such a stupid statement. Should make all Kucinich supporters rethink about 100 times.
president ron paul today issued a new silver dollar coin bearing the likeness of vp kuchinich’s lovely and talented wife although many americans are confusing the image with heather mills of ‘dancing with the stars’ blooper tape’ fame.
It seems to me that this whole politician-media whoring thing is quite bipartisan.
“In Iowa, Clinton Is Pressed on Murdoch”
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.....ex.html?hp
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 51
ron paul is a federalist, he thinks the government has no bussiness doing roads, water works, shools, parks, bridges
he wants everything privatized
ron paul is a federalist, he thinks the government has no bussiness doing roads, water works, shools, parks, bridges
he wants everything privatized
Acme Land Mines Inc. interstate highway 66.
eCAHNomics @ 55
I’m very curious about where Kucinich supporters will go after he is eliminated from the primaries.
perris @ 40
You say that like it’s a bad thing …
OK, I keed. But seriously, the only way the media changes is if people change its economic incentives. If a media outlet is serving you poorly, drop it and/or boycott its advertisers, and let both the outlet and the advertisers know why you’re doing it. If a media outlet is serving you well, patronize it and its advertisers and let both the outlet and the advertisers know why you’re doing it.
Both the media and advertisers spend mind-boggling amounts of money on audience research. They want to know what people want, and they want to deliver it, because that’s what drives ratings/readership/clicks, and ratings/readership/clicks drive advertising, and advertising drives profitability. Tell them! Early and often!
The profit motive is a powerful incentive, and it’s here to stay. Use it — don’t shy away from it as though it were somehow unclean and unholy (even if you believe that it is).
selise @ 46
It is damn hard to facts, policy study, out side those produced by think tanks. Even the so-called liberal think tanks are, in my view, center right. That lock on the intelectual foundations makes it difficult to break out of that narative.
cinnamonape @ 43 -
i don’t think it’s uncommon for people who don’t like or trust the fed to buy gold. it may just be that his political views are driving his investments - not the other way around.
p.s. distrust and dislike of the fed is not limited to neonazis (no disrespect meant to eCAHNomics)
I’m very curious about where Kucinich supporters will go after he is eliminated from the primaries.
glumly vote for a corporatist?
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 51
lol, sounds like he took buffets advice to buy gold seriously.
selise @ 62
I didn’t mean my addition to link neonazis & dislike of Fed. I was just adding another, independent, reason for disliking Ron Paul.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 64
Joe Biden?
way way way OT:
Grey Cup day today in Canada.
The ‘Super Bowl’ of the Canadian Football League featuring the Winnipeg Blue Bombers and the Saskatchewan Roughriders.
The Prarie Bowl
in Toronto.
eCAHNomics @ 55
when paul was asked who (besides himself) he would support for president he said hagel and kucinich. i suspect paul and kucinich have some mutual respect for having gone against their own parties on the issue of war (which paul says is his most important issue).
the really sad thing is that of all the candidates (and i include the dems in this) paul makes the most sense when talking about the dangers and causes of terrorism.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 56
I have to say I pretty much agree with Ron Paul’s view of getting out of Iraq. And I read somewhere that he said the other day he will not vote Republican because the GOP is too war-like. And of course I really like Kucinich.
burnspbesq @ 61
the profit model of media has changed though burnspbesq
they are now sponsored by those that buy law, they really don’t care anymore about how many people buy products they advertise
how many adds do you hear on the radio or see on tv of companies that don’t sell anything?
they are buying opinion not selling products…there is nothing to boycott
of course, WE don’t have to “listen” or “watch” to the broadcast but the majority of people have no other source of information and WE have to battle the propaganda that these people believe
it’s not a product driven marketing model anymore as far as media is concerned
the only anser is we have to break up ownership, we have to localize the industry…that’s the only real solution
selise@68
The trouble is, you have to vote for the whole candidate. People are packages of goods & bads. You have to try to figure out how they balance out.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 68
What time does this thing start. Normally I pay absolutely no attention to sports, but as a Winnipeger, I do have an opinion on this matter!
intersting history project:
was joe klein always this much in the pocket of the republican party?
if so, why has it taken til now to come out?
if not, what changed that put him in the tank?
cinnamonape @ 52
Yeah. But it was 2/3 of those present and voting.
I’m going to write something on Bill Sali, who is (sighing very, very heavily) our rep. He voted against overriding the veto when Mike Simpson (the other fucking Republican rep) voted ‘yes’ to override the veto.
Within that bill was funding for the 2009 Special Olympics to be held in Boise. Our hospital has a number of volunteers and we were discussing it earlier in the week.
tw3k @ 62
yes, but as we create our own narratives, i don’t want to fall into the trap of sticking with my narrative instead of the facts. in a strange way we’ve had it easy since we haven’t had a dominant narrative to temp us. but that could change as we become successful at creating shared narratives.
Of course if we find ourselves in a world war as a result of more misguided foreign policies, especially in the Mideast, we won’t need to worry about building more roads, and water projects, etc.
What time does this thing start. Normally I pay absolutely no attention to sports, but as a Winnipeger, I do have an opinion on this matter!
Fern
hey I’m guessing 6:00 pm because the cbc is running a pregame show now.
Are you in ‘the Peg’ now?
eCAHNomics @ 72
yeah, i know.
i’m just doing some whining about it first *g*.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 78
Yup.
eCAHNomics @ 55
Why? Because she made some comment about being a running mate with her husband, politically. Not knowing the context and knowing what they’re both about, I would take it to mean, they’re compatible politically. I’m sure she’s quite aware she’s a British citizen and the restrictions for her because of that in relation to voting, etc.
hey eCAHNomics, I know you told me you enjoyed “american gangstah”
[Mod Note; Edited by mod at the request of author.]
Oklahoma kiddo @ 77
i’ve never paid so much attention to presidential candidates, nor had such a hard time figuring out who to support…. makes me have some sympathy for the folks who throw up their hands and say “i don’t know and i’m not going to vote without having a clue”
oh man, my magic white font didn’t work on post 82 and I can’t edit
could a mod go in and try to figure out why my white tag didn’t hold, it worked in priview
Howdy folks! Hopefully everyone had a good holiday. I wanted to take this opportunity to remind everyone that changing screen names and sockpuppeting is frowned upon here at firedoglake.com and can be grounds for banning. Thank you and carry on!
Well, I guess you all feel good now that you got a little name calling out of your system. Bullshit is not an augment. It does not refute erroneous statements. It is they say - we say.
As long as we are acting like children why not just go ahead and call Mr. Klien Poop-Head. That will show them.
What may I ask is wrong with giving the mythical terrorist the same rights as citizens have. If there is probable cause, there is a mechanism to allow the needed spying. If the only way to stop the terrorist is to violate rights we, according to documents of origin, believe all men are endowed with.
Second, if the bill proposed by Pelosi does not in fact give out these rights, how do you document that fact.
I am not going to believe that the bill “would require the surveillance of every foreign-terrorist target’s calls to be approved by the FISA court, an institution founded to protect the rights of U.S. citizens only.” just because Time says it.
In fact this quote has one word that raises a red flag for me immediately. “Founded”. Our Country was founded. Our country was Founded by Declaring Independence from England. The FISC was created by law in 1978, and is subject to change by the same mechanism by which it was created. So If Nancy Pelosi wants to pass a law that says the court can only convene only on odd numbered days when it does not rain and that there must be clowns, then that is her prerogative if she thinks it is right and she can get the votes. It will not alter or diminish the foundations of our Government.
On the other hand, just because Firedoglake says it isn’t so, will not sway me unless there is documentation and a plausible argument made. Liberals do not need an attack machine they need a fact machine.
Assessing information takes a lot of time and thought. Most people do not have that time. Do the Republicans succeed, like others before them, wuth the big lie. It is easy to be swayed by propaganda.
The Democrats do not want to use that method, and they are right, but there is a defense. Facts and predigested information. Every lie and distortion needs to be answered by facts arranged in an easily format.
Wordsmith @ 81
She was not talking about herself as her husband’s running mate - she was talking about Ron Paul
The Lurking Mod @ 85
hey lurking mod, I need your help, could you go and fix my magic white font on 82?
would appreciate it
here’s a youtube clip of ron paul talking about dennis kucinich.
selise @ 76
maybe, hard to say specifically.
Keyword: spotlight.
I mean, SPOTLIGHT.
You know what to do, folks — call bullshit.
Very loudly.
Wonder what Mr. Klein would say to the US being dissed by: LINK
Dirty British Traitor Bush would say! God knows what Cheney is going to do!
Ron Paul 1981 and he hasn’t changed:
link
Rayne @ 91
and digg it too
tw3k @ 90
see confirmation bias.
AZ Matt @ 91
Now Chimpy really is left with just Laura and Barney.
perris @ 81
Yeah. Thanks again for the recommendation.
Roy E Pearson @ 86
Hello? You did read points 1 through 8 in this diary, yes? Each point a recitation of the facts about Joe Klein and his gross misrepresentation of the facts, a refutation of his misleading work?
One of the BIG problems with the American public is that they don’t take the time to read carefully. Here are a series of easily digested facts in a neat format, and look at the results…it’s difficult for some people to catch the clue-by-four that says CALL THEM ON THEIR LIES OUT LOUD.
Fern @ 87
What?! Oh - now….that’s just STOOPID! :-))
eCAHNomics @ 97
For a based on the life of..movie….The Denzel character was quite close to the real Frank Lucas…
It might be a lot less time consuming to make a list of those in the media who are not “owned” by the GOP, than the other way around. What always gets me is how the Republican party has convinced an awful lot of people that the media is “liberal”.
Odd, really. I came here from Crooks & Liars, where I left a comment for a post about David Brooks. Seems like the rabid right pundits have a lot in common. Because I think this works for Klein, too:
“He’s been so wrong for so long that I don’t even bother to read him anymore. If he says anything at all interesting, it will show up in a blog somewhere. But mostly, I ignore him, as I ignore all the other Bushie apologists. Nothing they say will change my mind, because nothing they say is based in facts (what we liberals call reality). And while the neocons are creating their own reality (yeah, I read the original Sunday Times Magazine piece), those of us who actually live in reality can sit back and enjoy the schadenfreude when the “real” reality bites them in their “created reality”’s ass.”
I meant Brooks when I wrote it; but doesn’t it work for Klein as well?
It’s the same old story.
perris @ 71
Wow … that’s a really odd, and in my opinion untenable, view of why companies invest in image advertising. I happen to be married to a marketing professional, and I know from hearing it from marketing and advertising professionals over an extended period of time that image advertising is viewed as complementing product-specific advertising by creating an overall positive image of the company and the brand. The notion that companies “really don’t care anymore about how many people buy products they advertise” is just not reflective of reality. As is the notion that “there is nothing to boycott.” Companies that run image ads still have products to sell. If you’re in a mood to boycott, boycott everything that a particular advertiser sells — for example, if you write to Nestle USA and tell them you’re not buying any more Crunch bars until they clean up the way they market baby formula in less developed countries, the message does get back to corporate headquarters in Switzerland.
And your notion that companies use media advertising to (as you so quaintly put it) “buy law” seems equally untenable. Why spend that money there when it can be spent more efficiently and with a more reliable payoff on K Street?
selise @ 94
what is an example
About Mrs Kucinich.. The youtube is available for viewing at openleft.
FYI, Book Salon is available upstairs.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 42
It’s odd that the Scripps writer actually misstated the impact of the survey. The comment that people think it’s “possible” waters down what the survey showed people believed.
They don’t think that it’s “possible” they think it is LIKELY!
Here is the actual survey question and results:
http://www.newspolls.org/quest.....ion_id=918
The new survey didn’t ask questions about whether the public believed that the Pentagon was struck by a cruise missile, nor did it ask if people thought the WTC were destroyed by planted explosives. That was in the older survey. So no comparisons are available on whether opinions have changed on that.
But what is most interesting is that the number of people who believe the government is withholding information about UFO’s or the Kennedy assassination is down about 10% from last year, while the belief that the government ignored warnings about 9/11 is significantly up BY 20%.
So where is the “wingnuttia” on the left or the public???
It seems that the public is actually MORE skeptical and yet more critical about the Bush Administration in regard to 9/11.
Fern @ 80
drove past once long ago as in ‘long ago.’
spent a summer in b.c. and couldn’t believe I came back here.
this city is like a power vac.
hard to get out after a certain point.
Well, not to many people will read this now that Book Salon is upstairs, but I wanted to say about Ron Paul.
He is concerned about the value of the dollar and it has fallen.
He is concerned that the US does not report the M3 Money Supply under the Bush Administration.
I believe he is concerned that the US under reports inflation. Anyone who buys anything except computers would have to agree with that.
His concerns seem right on to me.
Wordsmith @ 75
That’s almost the way I read it. It’s counted by Yeas and Nays and these are recorded. If the proportion of those reach 2/3rds the veto is overridden in that House. I say almost since the latter seems to suggest that abstentions and ABSENTEES are not counted to the ratio. Only AYES vs. NAYS.
There is also some debate about the issue of counting impeachment votes. This is more complicated since it is a protracted trial. I’ve argued that it entails 2/3rd’s of those present at the vote on each article, less abstentions. Others have suggested that it is 2/3rd’s of those in Session (i.e. the Complete Senate).
The latter is definitely not true as Articles of Impeachment have passed the House by less than a full majority of the members (due to absentees) and the votes for actual impeachment (on judges) have been attained with less than 2/3rds of the entire Senate doing so.
The ratio numbers have always been held to mean those who are present and voting less abstentions.
Sandman @ 110
So? Are you sure that the other candidates would not support disclosing the M3 Money Supply? Thats eems just good transparency to me. Or that they are not concerned about under-reporting inflation? I’m sure the Democratic candidates would support measures of actual inflation to average consumers, whether that included volatile elemnts like gas/energy/and food or not.
And any candidate should be concerned over the falling value of the dollar and what that means economically, and diplomatically. It might help the balance of trade, but that would only be true up until other countries shifted to pricing in Euros and insisted on payment in the latter.
cinnamonape @ 111
It took me a minute or two to figure it out. One thing I found is that 15 members didn’t vote: 8 Reps & 7 Dems…3 of the Dems caught my attn = Kucinich, Stark (D-CA), & Van Hollen (D-MD) plus 4 others. And interestingly Ron Paul didn’t cast a vote either.
How about some ‘lethal shorthand’ for the Democrats? Tragically, we know that smacking this guy down on the facts isn’t enough.
I accuse Bush Republicans of “tampering with the blueprints of a superpower” (the Constitution). On the theory that Americans will give up liberty for security, but they won’t give up American power for security. Just try suggesting that we change our expansionist policies in the Middle East to calm down the terrorists–and see what Rush says.
Anway, instead of just yelling bullshit, I suggest people devote their creativity to building our own ‘lethal shorthand’ — one that sells in the mainstream and not just on the blogosphere.
Time is actually thrilled by all this back and forth–it’s why they put jokers like Klein online. To generate hits and eyeballs. They don’t care whether what he says is accurate or not at all. (see the Rove/Kos nonsense at Newsweek for the same principle in action)
They don’t care as long as it gets hits and generates “buzz”. It’s disgusting.
All right, I watched the video. She was specifically asked about her husband running with Ron Paul - as a hypothetical. I don’t see this as some kind of gotcha moment. And the bullshit with Dennis and the UFO. Big flippin’ deal. Some folks believe in ghosts, others believe in god.
Hi all. Quick drive-by with an OT thought I posted in EPU-land at Next Hurrah:
Reading the Times BAE story this morning, a thought occured to me. Is there any chance that the EO authorizing confiscation of assets of anyone threatening the Lebanese government is actually targeted at the Saudi (and maybe secondarily the Chinese) investments in the US? That might be a way of neutralizing Saudi (and Chinese) leverage over the US (and helping to right the national balance sheet to boot). I.e. if the Saudis do move OPEC oil off the USD, then the USG discloses (possibly fabricated, possibly real) evidence of Saudi (or Chinese) support for Syria, Hezbollah, or what have you — and then on that basis nationalizes in one fell swoop all Saudi assets in the US. (Pretty rich stuff there, what with the longstanding Bush family ties to the Sauds — “Take that, Daddy!”). Balance of economic terror. So to avoid triggering all that, the Sauds see to it that OPEC remains on the dollar, at least for the time being. And the House of Saud makes all pally with every USG-connected player it can.
Of course even in the highly unlikely event that this scenario were valid, that power dynamic wouldn’t be a permanent fix, it would at best only buy time — once onto the game, the Saudis (and Chinese) could slowly move enough investment out of the US, eventually reaching the point where they’re no longer at enough risk to be controlled any longer by the confiscation threat.
I’m nuts, aren’t I? Please tell me I’m nuts with this?
GSD @ 31
Will Condi wear a burka?
How about George?
I love callin’ bullshit on people.
BULLSHIT, KLIEN!!!!!!
But Klien sirta called bullshit on himself, albeit in a most pussified way:
http://time-blog.com/swampland/
Nah. That don’t even count.
BULLSHIT, KLIEN!!!
Stephen Glass and Dan Rather lost their jobs for lesser journalistic offenses than totally misrepresenting, whether for malice or lack of due dilligence, the content of a congressional bill and calling its authors stupid. Joe Klein needs to be fired.
Rayne says:
Yes, I read the points about Mr. Klein and Time. I do not care about those points. That you do care is part of why the Republicans get by with what they do.
Personal attacks are not the solution. If all of those points are true, the best way to deal with that is to provide easily digesrable documentation. In item one, the documentation requires reading an entire posting to find the documentation. Glenn Greewalrd is always a good read for me, but if I want documentation to accept I am not going to read the whole article, so you loose your audience.
Rather than dealing in personality just refute the misinformation and allow your audience to reach the conclusion that Joe Klein is at best a sloppy journalist and probably a liar as well. You keep your liberal ethics in tact and expose the misinformation.
Bill Clinton Won the Presidency by addressing with facts each each attack, personal or otherwise.
Did I read the points? Silly Wabbit.