Jane!

me me me?

2

Zed!

Psych! Evening, Jane!

almost!

Of course in the US, there will be retroactive immunity, but only if it is outlawed here first.

It is torture! Did you see that somebody died from it? And they’re using tasers on people that won’t show their driver license to the cops.

SnarKassandra @ 2

me me me?

(whistling innocently)…

jayt @ 9

SnarKassandra @ 2

me me me?

(whistling innocently)…

hahaha!

Tasers-IOKIYAR, and a cop.

I remember when cops were pigs. But then I learned that pigs were smart, so I decided that was an insult to pigs.

I got out of a federal trial jury by proclaiming in open court that I thought cops were “routinely and gratuitously brutal.”

Jane, good to see you on the video clip from yesterday. Any chance other media will think they need someone articulate?

Silly me.

eCAHNomics @ 11

Tasers-IOKIYAR, and a cop.

I remember when cops were pigs. But then I learned that pigs were smart, so I decided that was an insult to pigs.

I got out of a federal trial jury by proclaiming in open court that I thought cops were “routinely and gratuitously brutal.”

I have to remember to use that one.

SnarKassandra @ 8

It is torture! Did you see that somebody died from it? And they’re using tasers on people that won’t show their driver license to the cops.

It does seem to me that, aound here anyway, police are getting taser-happy. I’ve got a meeting Monday with a mother who called 9-11 because she feared her son was suicidal – cop tasered him on the couch – and then arrested everybody in the room.

I so want that case.

Shorter Junya: “A lil’ buzz never hurt no one. Ah should know.”

The Homeland condones torture. See, Bush wasn’t lyin’, ’cause he said “America doesn’t torture”, but since the country has recently been renamed (probably by secret Executive Order /s)…he can lie and tell the truth at the same time…

Ain’t it just graaaaaand!!!

9/11 – Heil on baby….

Why doesn’t the United Nations get up on their hind legs and stop it here then? I’m tired of nations condemning us, electing non-Bush-worshippers, and then continuing to let our rogue government get away with these things.

USA: Torture Nation

It’s got to stop, and the next thirteen months may be the worst of it. Can’t someone please intervene?

Watch for more U.N. bashing.

SnarKassandra @ 8

It is torture! Did you see that somebody died from it? And they’re using tasers on people that won’t show their driver license to the cops.

I think they said 300 people have died from it. Three in the past week.

Don’t taz me bro!!!

SnarKassandra @ 8

It is torture! Did you see that somebody died from it? And they’re using tasers on people that won’t show their driver license to the cops.

Several people have died in the US alone. There is a certain bitter irony here. Police largely moved to increasing use of tasers because of excessive excessive force issues surrounding the use of police batons. Tasers were supposed to allow officers subdue violent suspects without undue injury (or costly lawsuits). Now they have become just as big a problem as the night sticks were. US policing simply places far too much emphasis on use of force. In England and elsewhere, police training emphasizes nonviolent (though often more time consuming) methods of defusing situations.

TeddySanFran @ 17

Why doesn’t the United Nations get up on their hind legs and stop it here then? I’m tired of nations condemning us, electing non-Bush-worshippers, and then continuing to let our rogue government get away with these things.

USA: Torture Nation

It’s got to stop, and the next thirteen months may be the worst of it. Can’t someone please intervene?

It does seem odd that they’d pick tasering to call torture – have they taken a stand on waterboarding?

Jane,

Don’t tell TRex…

TeddySanFran @ 17

Why doesn’t the United Nations get up on their hind legs and stop it here then? I’m tired of nations condemning us, electing non-Bush-worshippers, and then continuing to let our rogue government get away with these things.

USA: Torture Nation

It’s got to stop, and the next thirteen months may be the worst of it. Can’t someone please intervene?

Ummmmm…..Congress??? Oops, sorry…I overstepped myself…that seems to be out of their league…D’Oh….

It does seem odd that they’d pick tasering to call torture – have they taken a stand on waterboarding?

Think that’s what’s called settled law, except IYAR, in which case there is no law.

jayt @ 21

TeddySanFran @ 17

Why doesn’t the United Nations get up on their hind legs and stop it here then? I’m tired of nations condemning us, electing non-Bush-worshippers, and then continuing to let our rogue government get away with these things.

USA: Torture Nation

It’s got to stop, and the next thirteen months may be the worst of it. Can’t someone please intervene?

It does seem odd that they’d pick tasering to call torture – have they taken a stand on waterboarding?

I think it is a smart move, because tasaring happens to ordinary people, not invisible, extraordinarily rendered, terrrrrists… This resonates with every woman/man.

DrDick @ 20

SnarKassandra @ 8

It is torture! Did you see that somebody died from it? And they’re using tasers on people that won’t show their driver license to the cops.

Several people have died in the US alone. There is a certain bitter irony here. Police largely moved to increasing use of tasers because of excessive excessive force issues surrounding the use of police batons. Tasers were supposed to allow officers subdue violent suspects without undue injury (or costly lawsuits). Now they have become just as big a problem as the night sticks were. US policing simply places far too much emphasis on use of force. In England and elsewhere, police training emphasizes nonviolent (though often more time consuming) methods of defusing situations.

American police are the precusor to road rage.

And don’t tell me I shouldn’t talk that way cause I might need a police person someday. I have and they didn’t.

This whole business with Tasers is another example of the “fish rots from the head”. When the President has no respect for the Constitution for the rule of law..why should we expect more from local cops. It is amazing how fast the rot can spread through society.

SnarKassandra @ 8

It is torture! Did you see that somebody died from it? And they’re using tasers on people that won’t show their driver license to the cops.

Yes! I watched both youtubes of the events you mentioned.. I almost got physically ill after watching the airport police kill that disturbed Polish man..

Every circumstance I have seen … there was no need and or plenty of alternatives to the use of a gun, taser or otherwise.

It’s way past time to permanently remove stun guns from the public safety arsenal.

That insane trooper that pulled over the guy in Utah and tasered the guy for speeding, hit MSM today, and the guy who got tasered got air time. That is a good thing.

jayt @ 21

TeddySanFran @ 17

Why doesn’t the United Nations get up on their hind legs and stop it here then? I’m tired of nations condemning us, electing non-Bush-worshippers, and then continuing to let our rogue government get away with these things.

USA: Torture Nation

It’s got to stop, and the next thirteen months may be the worst of it. Can’t someone please intervene?

It does seem odd that they’d pick tasering to call torture – have they taken a stand on waterboarding?

I think that it has been established that waterboarding is torture and illegal already.

And don’t tell me I shouldn’t talk that way cause I might need a police person someday. I have and they didn’t.

Crime mainly occurs to the poor and disenfranchised. The probablity that anyone on this blog has the need of cops is small.

In concept the taser is a great idea – replace the use of guns with a less lethal alternative.
In the several years since their deployment tasers are being used in situations where drawing a gun would never be appropriate. Tasers are used in addition to guns and not as a replacement for guns.

eCAHNomics @ 24

It does seem odd that they’d pick tasering to call torture – have they taken a stand on waterboarding?

Think that’s what’s called settled law, except IYAR, in which case there is no law.

For the time being, however, the spate of deaths arising from this Non-lethal method should raise eyebrows within the judicial system…

Steve-AR @ 27

This whole business with Tasers is another example of the “fish rots from the head”. When the President has no respect for the Constitution for the rule of law..why should we expect more from local cops. It is amazing how fast the rot can spread through society.

And how quickly the good Authoritarians recognize what’s approved behavior, expected even, without Dear Leader actually spelling it out.

No one in that video at digby’s place, except of course the victim and his family, would ever call what happened “torture.” They, too, can say in all honesty, “We don’t torture.” Because in their own minds, they don’t.

marymccurnin @ 30

jayt @ 21

TeddySanFran @ 17

It does seem odd that they’d pick tasering to call torture – have they taken a stand on waterboarding?

I think that it has been established that waterboarding is torture and illegal already.

At the end of WW II to be exact when several Japanese officers were convicted and (I believe) executed for just that.

eCAHNomics @ 31

And don’t tell me I shouldn’t talk that way cause I might need a police person someday. I have and they didn’t.

Crime mainly occurs to the poor and disenfranchised. The probablity that anyone on this blog has the need of cops is small.

No. Crime can happen to anyone.

eCAHNomics @ 31

And don’t tell me I shouldn’t talk that way cause I might need a police person someday. I have and they didn’t.

Crime mainly occurs to the poor and disenfranchised. The probablity that anyone on this blog has the need of cops is small.

I live in the murder capital neighborhood of a city whose murder rate has gone up more than 40% over last year. I may need a cop at any moment.

Maybe the Dems are all scared they will be tasered in mass. Delay, Frist, and Allen are all waiting in the wings with their little thingies ready to zap the big bad liberal democrats in both the house and senate. DiFi isn’t too worried though.

eCAHNomics @ 31

And don’t tell me I shouldn’t talk that way cause I might need a police person someday. I have and they didn’t.

Crime mainly occurs to the poor and disenfranchised. The probablity that anyone on this blog has the need of cops is small.

I have needed the cops several times and I’m not poor or disenfranchised. Out of the several experiences, I encountered one jerk. Just curious, does your high esteem of the police extend to the military as well?

marymccurnin @ 30

jayt @ 21

TeddySanFran @ 17

It does seem odd that they’d pick tasering to call torture – have they taken a stand on waterboarding?

I think that it has been established that waterboarding is torture and illegal already.

I’ve heard that there have been prosecutions for waterboarding as a war crime. But I’m damn near certain that the Geneva Conventions speak in more general terms, and that there is no specific mention of waterboarding, or any other specific procedure.

I don’t think it’s black-letter law anywhere – that needs to be rectified. So long as it’s open to interpretation, as seems to be the case presently, it can continue. It continues today – because, in spite of some precedent in earlier prosecutions, it is *not* specifically outlawed anywhere of which I’m aware.

Did you all know that tasers can be purchased privately? Imagine being attacked by someone who can zap you with 30,000 volts! (A lower voltage than the police typically use). These things should be outlawed.

smapdi @ 32

In concept the taser is a great idea – replace the use of guns with a less lethal alternative.
In the several years since their deployment tasers are being used in situations where drawing a gun would never be appropriate. Tasers are used in addition to guns and not as a replacement for guns.

Again, it is not just the tasers…it is the police state mentality that is the problem…some law enforcement people are all hyped up because of the Patriot Act…they don’t even bother with Miranda anymore…I’ve seen it with my own two eyes…and that type of person will not listen to the person they are arresting, or to witnesses either, and the judges do nothing. Some communities are so revenue-driven that they just haul ‘em in and collect.

SnarKassandra @ 36

eCAHNomics @ 31

Crime mainly occurs to the poor and disenfranchised. The probablity that anyone on this blog has the need of cops is small.

No. Crime can happen to anyone.

Not statistically. that’s the whole point beind NYC’s comstat. Finally they decided to deploy cops to where crime was, which was in poor neighborhoods, as opposed to prior rule which was to deploy them to where taxpayers were, but crime wasn’t. I live in midtown Manhattan, a rich neighborhood, and have never had the slighest bush with anything resembling crime.

TeddySanFran @ 37

eCAHNomics @ 31

Crime mainly occurs to the poor and disenfranchised. The probablity that anyone on this blog has the need of cops is small.

I live in the murder capital neighborhood of a city whose murder rate has gone up more than 40% over last year. I may need a cop at any moment.

I don’t know Teddy. I think under the Republicans you qualify as disenfranchised. On the other hand, while crime statistically happens far more frequently to the poor and minorities, it can happen to anyone, especially if you live in an urban area (as Teddy does).

TeddySanFran @ 34

Steve-AR @ 27

This whole business with Tasers is another example of the “fish rots from the head”. When the President has no respect for the Constitution for the rule of law..why should we expect more from local cops. It is amazing how fast the rot can spread through society.

And how quickly the good Authoritarians recognize what’s approved behavior, expected even, without Dear Leader actually spelling it out.

No one in that video at digby’s place, except of course the victim and his family, would ever call what happened “torture.” They, too, can say in all honesty, “We don’t torture.” Because in their own minds, they don’t.

Just like the jackass on FOX who said protesters should be Tasered.

Laura Doty @ 41

Did you all know that tasers can be purchased privately? Imagine being attacked by someone who can zap you with 30,000 volts! (A lower voltage than the police typically use). These things should be outlawed.

They sell guns too.

Laura Doty @ 41

Did you all know that tasers can be purchased privately? Imagine being attacked by someone who can zap you with 30,000 volts! (A lower voltage than the police typically use). These things should be outlawed.

Would these things be less likely to be deadly if they dialed down the voltage? Can they dial down the voltage?

DrDick @ 20

SnarKassandra @ 8

It is torture! Did you see that somebody died from it? And they’re using tasers on people that won’t show their driver license to the cops.

Several people have died in the US alone. There is a certain bitter irony here. Police largely moved to increasing use of tasers because of excessive excessive force issues surrounding the use of police batons. Tasers were supposed to allow officers subdue violent suspects without undue injury (or costly lawsuits). Now they have become just as big a problem as the night sticks were. US policing simply places far too much emphasis on use of force. In England and elsewhere, police training emphasizes nonviolent (though often more time consuming) methods of defusing situations.

That’s because the taser has become a first resort rather than last resort. The cop gets super lazy and rather than attempt to defuse any type of situation with words and keep it from escalating, the taser puts an end to whatever the “problem” is and the cop sits back thinking he’s accomplished something positive.

Dru@39

Just curious, does your high esteem of the police extend to the military as well?

You betcha. Military is a necessary evil, but an evil nonetheless.

dakine01 @ 48

DrDick @ 20

That’s because the taser has become a first resort rather than last resort. The cop gets super lazy and rather than attempt to defuse any type of situation with words and keep it from escalating, the taser puts an end to whatever the “problem” is and the cop sits back thinking he’s accomplished something positive.

Which is basically my point here.

Laura Doty @ 41

Did you all know that tasers can be purchased privately? Imagine being attacked by someone who can zap you with 30,000 volts! (A lower voltage than the police typically use). These things should be outlawed.

Then only outlaws will have tasers.
/s

The taser is a lethal weapon, just like a gun…all gun shots do not kill. It is just…less lethal, but lethal nonetheless.

Isn’t shooting someone actually torture too???? No one talks about that….Or how about billy clubbing someone…

Where can one really draw the line????

Steve-AR @ 45

TeddySanFran @ 34

And how quickly the good Authoritarians recognize what’s approved behavior, expected even, without Dear Leader actually spelling it out.

No one in that video at digby’s place, except of course the victim and his family, would ever call what happened “torture.” They, too, can say in all honesty, “We don’t torture.” Because in their own minds, they don’t.

Just like the jackass on FOX who said protesters should be Tasered.

Code Pink, no less…

SnarKassandra @ 36

eCAHNomics @ 31

Crime mainly occurs to the poor and disenfranchised. The probablity that anyone on this blog has the need of cops is small.

No. Crime can happen to anyone.

I am sorry but you are wrong, ecahnomics. I have needed the police several times while living in San Francisco. They either didn’t show or made light of a very dangerous situation. One setting was in the museum of art. Not exactly your poorer neighborhood. And I worked in security at Mt. Zion Hospital and saw abuse via the police force then. I am sure there are good cops but many have crappy attitudes. There is more obvious crime in poorer neighborhoods and you tend to hear about it. And you tend to hear about blue collar crime and not the kind of violent crap that the corporate world pulls. /rant.

DrDick @ 35

marymccurnin @ 30

I think that it has been established that waterboarding is torture and illegal already.

At the end of WW II to be exact when several Japanese officers were convicted and (I believe) executed for just that.

don’t think we executed for the torture but IIRC my readings, it was 8 years hard labor as punishment (assuming that was the only torture inflicted).

DrDick @ 44

TeddySanFran @ 37

I live in the murder capital neighborhood of a city whose murder rate has gone up more than 40% over last year. I may need a cop at any moment.

I don’t know Teddy. I think under the Republicans you qualify as disenfranchised. On the other hand, while crime statistically happens far more frequently to the poor and minorities, it can happen to anyone, especially if you live in an urban area (as Teddy does).

Well, yes, I am poor and disenfranchised. I was pointing out that the poor and disenfranchised are here on this blog.

bg @ 12

Jane, good to see you on the video clip from yesterday. Any chance other media will think they need someone articulate?

Silly me.

CSPan should have Jane on regularly and I am looking oh so forward to her sitting down for a conversation with CSpan founder Brian Lamb who will be quite dazzled, without doubt. When the new CSUMonterey Bay first opened Lamb was one of the first guests for an informal public speaking evening for the general public one evening at the new library. A friend of Lamb was on faculty and we local CSpan fans filled the event. Most of us were horrified and embarrassed that the former dense republican east coast Peter Smith, and first president of the new campus clearly did not seem to have a clue who Brian Lamb was and hastily turned the podium over to an library official to introduce Lamb as Smith promptly vamoosed, leaving the building. I was embarrassed for Smith and Leon Panetta whose Leon & Sylvia’s Panetta Institute also based on the new university campus.

CTuttle @ 53

Steve-AR @ 45

Just like the jackass on FOX who said protesters should be Tasered.

Code Pink, no less…

Now there’s a bunch of dangerous terrorists for you. Why they might blind you with their pink T-shirts. Actually have been known to send Rethug politicians into convulsions and paroxysms.

Dru @ 39

eCAHNomics @ 31

Crime mainly occurs to the poor and disenfranchised. The probablity that anyone on this blog has the need of cops is small.

I have needed the cops several times and I’m not poor or disenfranchised. Out of the several experiences, I encountered one jerk. Just curious, does your high esteem of the police extend to the military as well?

I have to agree with you. I have met a lot of really great cops in my day. Most of them are brave and good people. The problem, just as in war, is that there are power freaks in there too, and they are armed, and take advantage of their perceived power.

TeddySanFran @ 56

DrDick @ 44

I don’t know Teddy. I think under the Republicans you qualify as disenfranchised. On the other hand, while crime statistically happens far more frequently to the poor and minorities, it can happen to anyone, especially if you live in an urban area (as Teddy does).

Well, yes, I am poor and disenfranchised. I was pointing out that the poor and disenfranchised are here on this blog.

me too. but Teddy, can you vote?

disenfranchised

adjective
deprived of the rights of citizenship especially the right to vote; “labor was voiceless”; “disenfrenchised masses took to the streets” [ant: enfranchised]

I have needed the police several times while living in San Francisco. They either didn’t show or made light of a very dangerous situation. One setting was in the museum of art. Not exactly your poorer neighborhood. And I worked in security at Mt. Zion Hospital and saw abuse via the police force then.

OK. Assuming the stats I realy on are wrong, why with your experience would you ever think cops are a good thing?

TeddySanFran @ 56

DrDick @ 44

I don’t know Teddy. I think under the Republicans you qualify as disenfranchised. On the other hand, while crime statistically happens far more frequently to the poor and minorities, it can happen to anyone, especially if you live in an urban area (as Teddy does).

Well, yes, I am poor and disenfranchised. I was pointing out that the poor and disenfranchised are here on this blog.

Chalk me up in that category…

eCahn @43: have never had the slighest bush with anything resembling crime.

I on the other hand find that whatever the Slightest Bush does is likely a crime.

DrDick @ 58

CTuttle @ 53

Code Pink, no less…

Now there’s a bunch of dangerous terrorists for you. Why they might blind you with their pink T-shirts. Actually have been known to send Rethug politicians into convulsions and paroxysms.

… and some Dems, too! (Pelosi & Feinstein at their homes…)

SnarKassandra @ 60

TeddySanFran @ 56

Well, yes, I am poor and disenfranchised. I was pointing out that the poor and disenfranchised are here on this blog.

me too. but Teddy, can you vote?

disenfranchised

adjective
deprived of the rights of citizenship especially the right to vote; “labor was voiceless”; “disenfrenchised masses took to the streets” [ant: enfranchised]

Yes I can vote, but I am currently not represented in the House. My representative seldom votes and does not represent the interests of her constituents, so I consider myself disenfranchised.

I am looking oh so forward to her sitting down for a conversation with CSpan founder Brian Lamb

I get the impression, despite HUGE efforts to hide it, that Brian Lamb is a closet wingnut. Am I paranoid? Hopefully a personal conversation could unearth the truth?

me too. but Teddy, can you vote?

disenfranchised

adjective
deprived of the rights of citizenship especially the right to vote; “labor was voiceless”; “disenfrenchised masses took to the streets” [ant: enfranchised]

Good Job!!!! On the fly research..

back later

DrDick @ 58

CTuttle @ 53

Code Pink, no less…

Now there’s a bunch of dangerous terrorists for you. Why they might blind you with their pink T-shirts. Actually have been known to send Rethug politicians into convulsions and paroxysms.

And they are rude, too. That brings sobs and hiccuping from the repugs. “They (hiccup,sob) called me a baaaddddd (snotty sob) name and hurt my wittle feelings.”

Steve-AR @ 67

me too. but Teddy, can you vote?

disenfranchised

adjective
deprived of the rights of citizenship especially the right to vote; “labor was voiceless”; “disenfrenchised masses took to the streets” [ant: enfranchised]

Good Job!!!! On the fly research..

Teddy gets mad if I ask a question on the thread where I could find the answer in dictionary.com or the encyclopedia or wiki.

Laura Doty @ 63

eCahn @43: have never had the slighest bush with anything resembling crime.

I on the other hand find that whatever the Slightest Bush does is likely a crime.

Of course, that shour have been bRush, but after I hit submit & found the error, I decided it might be appropriate, so I didn’t try to edit.

SnarKassandra @ 68

back later

Ta ta, Cassie…

SnarKassandra @ 36

eCAHNomics @ 31

Crime mainly occurs to the poor and disenfranchised. The probablity that anyone on this blog has the need of cops is small.

No. Crime can happen to anyone.

That’s right, just ask Reagan and the former Pope. (They were both shot, but lived)

TeddySanFran @ 65

SnarKassandra @ 60

me too. but Teddy, can you vote?

Yes I can vote, but I am currently not represented in the House. My representative seldom votes and does not represent the interests of her constituents, so I consider myself disenfranchised.

Actually, in the broader sense it is being used here, disenfranchisement refers to a lack of political power or ability to affect meaningful change in your life. I think that applies to many of us, regardless of our economic or social situation. Did for me until Schweitzer won the governorship and Tester the junior senator’s post. Now if we can just do something about that useless Bushevik corporate tool we have in the House.

SnarKassandra @ 68

back later

See ya then.

Sandman @ 73

SnarKassandra @ 36

No. Crime can happen to anyone.

That’s right, just ask Reagan and the former Pope. (They were both shot, but lived)

And spousal abuse that happens inside some cops’ homes. If they are tasing inappropriately on the outside think of how they treat their families.

eCAHNomics @ 66

I am looking oh so forward to her sitting down for a conversation with CSpan founder Brian Lamb

I get the impression, despite HUGE efforts to hide it, that Brian Lamb is a closet wingnut. Am I paranoid? Hopefully a personal conversation could unearth the truth?

I don’t get that impression really…I watch it all the time..If he were truly a wing-nut, he would suppress things, and I think they do a really good job of letting all sides speak. The show is almost like a blog…they read the news, and withhold personal comment in general, but they allow everyone their comment, and sometimes it is pretty dramatic on all sides. They only cut you off if you repeat yourself, if you are profane, and if you get really racist or bring up A***C or something inflammatory. JMHO

SnarKassandra @ 70

Steve-AR @ 67

me too. but Teddy, can you vote?

disenfranchised

adjective
deprived of the rights of citizenship especially the right to vote; “labor was voiceless”; “disenfrenchised masses took to the streets” [ant: enfranchised]

Good Job!!!! On the fly research..

Teddy gets mad if I ask a question on the thread where I could find the answer in dictionary.com or the encyclopedia or wiki.

Just helping to keep your look-it-up skills in tune….

marymccurnin @ 76

Sandman @ 73

That’s right, just ask Reagan and the former Pope. (They were both shot, but lived)

And spousal abuse that happens inside some cops’ homes. If they are tasing inappropriately on the outside think of how they treat their families.

You have a point of course, but it really is a bit more complicated. I have known quite a few police over the years (and have read some research on them as well). Many of them demonstrate an amazing ability to compartmentalize their lives, much like soldiers. There is one set of rules “on the job” and another at home/off duty. Even still they often seem more inclined to the use of force than many people.

And spousal abuse that happens inside some cops’ homes. If they are tasing inappropriately on the outside think of how they treat their families.

Of the 500 (record low) murders in NYC this year, only 35 are by strangers. Spousal/family abuse is a major problem, cops & others, and so far there have been no good solutions.

The claim that “The use of these weapons [Tasers] causes acute pain, constituting a form of torture,” is every bit as silly as David Rivkin’s claim that the use of waterboarding in torture-resistance training constitutes torture. Per the U.N. Convention Against Torture:

For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.

Anybody find Lacy Peterson and Stacey Peterson…a little er..um… strange…

I think we’ve been to that rodeo before…

eCAHNomics @ 31

And don’t tell me I shouldn’t talk that way cause I might need a police person someday. I have and they didn’t.

Crime mainly occurs to the poor and disenfranchised. The probablity that anyone on this blog has the need of cops is small.

i wonder if that is really true? what about “white collar” crime? corporate crime?

and sorta related… was just reading at tpm that in nyc by far the most murders are committed by someone the victim knows (but the murder rate is low)…

when i took in victims of domestic violence (it was a 30 day safe home program run out of the local domestic violence shelter), i was very glad to know there were police near by if need be.

now-a-days though, i prefer to stay as far from the police as i can – in the last few years my interactions with the police has included being pepper sprayed, tear gassed (and i’ve witnessed far worse being done to others)… and the chief of police in a city hall meeting told us that anyone who would participate in a legal, silent peace vigil (including your’s truely) was a potential threat to society and therefore the police were justified in taking head photos of each of us for identification purposes (so that they would know who we were and who we associated with).

better than being tasered, though.

… and to be fair, i have met some very cool cops in nyc (who seemed more sympathetic to us protesters than to city or fed gov).

jayt @ 14

SnarKassandra @ 8

It is torture! Did you see that somebody died from it? And they’re using tasers on people that won’t show their driver license to the cops.

It does seem to me that, aound here anyway, police are getting taser-happy. I’ve got a meeting Monday with a mother who called 9-11 because she feared her son was suicidal – cop tasered him on the couch – and then arrested everybody in the room.

I so want that case.

Since when did police start tasering people at risk of hurting themselves?
I hope you get that case, JayT.

eCAHNomics @ 49

Dru@39

Just curious, does your high esteem of the police extend to the military as well?

You betcha. Military is a necessary evil, but an evil nonetheless.

Have to disagree with you on that one (respectfully, of course). A military establishment, in and of itself, is morally neutral. It can be used for good or evil, and the civilian leadership who give the orders can and should be held accountable if military force is used inappropriately. If members of the armed forces behave in ways that contravene the laws of war, they can and should be held accountable. But carrying out a lawful order in a lawful way cannot be held to be evil. Down that road is chaos.

Since the bar has been set (drowning, with just-in-time asset management) – tasering seems a bit tame. Yoo? Whats your call? Isn’t it the only evaluation that matters?

Jane… when do we get in the streets?

eCAHNomics @ 80

And spousal abuse that happens inside some cops’ homes. If they are tasing inappropriately on the outside think of how they treat their families.

Of the 500 (record low) murders in NYC this year, only 35 are by strangers. Spousal/family abuse is a major problem, cops & others, and so far there have been no good solutions.

Have to say my experience living in Chicago for 12 years was rather different. It is true that overall you stand a better chance of being hurt or killed by friends and family, the rates for murders by strangers was far higher there than what you are describing. Much of that was gang violence, but there are also robberies and other violent crimes, often staged in areas which draw large crowds of the relatively affluent.

selise@83

i wonder if that is really true? what about “white collar” crime? corporate crime?

That would be an excellent point if corporate crime were ever prosecuted by the Rs or the Ds who receive contributions from the criminals.

As for your next point, see me@80.

eCAHNomics @ 66

I am looking oh so forward to her sitting down for a conversation with CSpan founder Brian Lamb

I get the impression, despite HUGE efforts to hide it, that Brian Lamb is a closet wingnut. Am I paranoid? Hopefully a personal conversation could unearth the truth?

Actually, IIRC, Lamb appeared to be surprisingly self-effacing during his talk at CSUMB mentioned above. Right out of the gate he spoke of his lackluster modest college/university education with little interest in reading much less authors and books until he was in his mid to late 40’s and much more focused on the creation of television innovations that culminated in the founding of the CSpan networks. He was actually quite self effacting and admitted he has only learned to cherish reading contemporary books and meeting authors in his forties as the CSPAN networks embraced their present book talk with authors that has proven so successful. My take was he was a progressive independent politically.

When the Founding Fathers looked for a model that reflected the abuses they objected to—in short what they intended to forbid by their new Constitution and Bill of Rights—they turned to an English institution, the Court of Star Chamber. It was a state security court with ancient roots which flourished under the Tudor and Stuart monarchs. The Star Chamber court operated in secrecy, was not bothered by the picky evidentiary rules that emerged in other courts, and did not believe that those appearing before it on state security charges had many rights—certainly not the right to counsel, nor even the right to conduct a defense. It relied very heavily on torture to extract the evidence it sought to convict, usually a confession—though rarely, of course, a confession with any validity, since the application of the rack would quickly get the subject to say whatever was desired, truthful or not.
(snip)
Reports have begun to circulate that the Administration has put together a group of scholars headed by a right-wing activist judge to craft legislation to introduce a new court of Star Chamber, perhaps to be floated in the coming year. As we see in the public pronouncements of the Bush Administration, accusations leveled at detainees in the war on terror are leveled for political effect, and often to parallel partisan political campaigns. If those accusations are rejected by a court, it therefore undermines confidence in the Administration and the Party. Which is why, in the Bush view of justice, a failure to convict is unacceptable. And which is why the Bush view of justice is no justice at all.
(snip)

harpers

“and the chief of police in a city hall meeting told us that anyone who would participate in a legal, silent peace vigil (including your’s truely) was a potential threat to society and therefore the police were justified in taking head photos of each of us for identification purposes”
They want all of us to know this so we will behave. Authoritarian fuckery.

burnspspeq@85

A military establishment, in and of itself, is morally neutral.

So what are the stats? How many times have military been used for moral vs. immoral purposes?

I rest my case.

There are no words….

Wednesday, November 21, 2007
Taser in ER is at issue
Payments by Medicare to center at risk

By Monte Mitchell
JOURNAL REPORTER

NORTH WILKESBORO

The federal agency that oversees Medicare says it will stop payments to Wilkes Regional Medical Center on Dec. 1 after law-enforcement officers in two separate instances used a Taser to subdue a patient in the emergency room.

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services found that the hospital violated Medicare’s rules of participation.

Hospital officials say they have filed a plan to resolve the issue and don’t expect any disruption in payments.

Link

eCAHNomics @ 88

selise@83

i wonder if that is really true? what about “white collar” crime? corporate crime?

That would be an excellent point if corporate crime were ever prosecuted by the Rs or the Ds who receive contributions from the criminals.

As for your next point, see me@80.

White collar crime costs society far more than blue collar crimes. It is a travesty that white collar crimes are rarely prosecuted…

marymccurnin @ 91

“and the chief of police in a city hall meeting told us that anyone who would participate in a legal, silent peace vigil (including your’s truely) was a potential threat to society and therefore the police were justified in taking head photos of each of us for identification purposes”
They want all of us to know this so we will behave. Authoritarian fuckery.

We know the FBI had files on Martin L King, and John Lennon, so your in good company.

Living under Bush, and worrying about whether the Demlandians are going to stop the Homelandians from attacking Iran… must fit the definition of torture on some level…

burnspbesq @ 85

eCAHNomics @ 49

Dru@39
You betcha. Military is a necessary evil, but an evil nonetheless.

Have to disagree with you on that one (respectfully, of course). A military establishment, in and of itself, is morally neutral. It can be used for good or evil, and the civilian leadership who give the orders can and should be held accountable if military force is used inappropriately. If members of the armed forces behave in ways that contravene the laws of war, they can and should be held accountable. But carrying out a lawful order in a lawful way cannot be held to be evil. Down that road is chaos.

I’m with burns on this one. Both police and military are subject to abuses, but that is a reflection of the leadership and what society allows. A well regulated military and police are necessary parts of civilized life and it is up to the citizenry to ensure that they do not abuse the power we give them (same goes for presidents).

DrDick @ 79

marymccurnin @ 76

And spousal abuse that happens inside some cops’ homes. If they are tasing inappropriately on the outside think of how they treat their families.

You have a point of course, but it really is a bit more complicated. I have known quite a few police over the years (and have read some research on them as well). Many of them demonstrate an amazing ability to compartmentalize their lives, much like soldiers. There is one set of rules “on the job” and another at home/off duty. Even still they often seem more inclined to the use of force than many people.

iirc (got this from zimbardo of standford prison experiment fame) wearing a uniform while “on the job” helps with the compartmentalization – while wearing the uniform (which acts as a means of diminishing individual accountability) behavior is permitted that would be considered anti-social if done as a civilian (without the uniform).

don’t know how important a factor this is compared to other things that may influence behavior. would be interested in your take on this…

I’ve must give more context to my remarks tonight. Courtesy of perris, I saw American Ganster this afternoon. Somethig like half (or more) of NYC Special Drug Force was convicted.

This country has lost its moral god damn compass.

Sorry for the bad language.

marymccurnin @ 76

Sandman @ 73

That’s right, just ask Reagan and the former Pope. (They were both shot, but lived)

And spousal abuse that happens inside some cops’ homes. If they are tasing inappropriately on the outside think of how they treat their families.

Can`t remember where I learned this – but relatively high rates of spousal and child abuse in the families of police officers, prison guards, and soldiers.

Sandman @ 95

marymccurnin @ 91

“and the chief of police in a city hall meeting told us that anyone who would participate in a legal, silent peace vigil (including your’s truely) was a potential threat to society and therefore the police were justified in taking head photos of each of us for identification purposes”
They want all of us to know this so we will behave. Authoritarian fuckery.

We know the FBI had files on Martin L King, and John Lennon, so your in good company.

I have one of those floating around in the back vaults somewhere as well. Not sure how up to date it is, though I suspect sending an email to the president informing him the Jesus said he was going to hell (complete with chapter and verse) may have perked up their interest again.

Can`t remember where I learned this – but relatively high rates of spousal and child abuse in the families of police officers, prison guards, and soldiers.

As already mentioned, Stanford experiments. Power corrupts.

Margot @ 84

jayt @ 14

SnarKassandra @ 8

It does seem to me that, aound here anyway, police are getting taser-happy. I’ve got a meeting Monday with a mother who called 9-11 because she feared her son was suicidal – cop tasered him on the couch – and then arrested everybody in the room.

I so want that case.

Since when did police start tasering people at risk of hurting themselves?
I hope you get that case, JayT.

and then arresting him and his family. Absolutely inexplicable.

burnspbesq @ 85

eCAHNomics @ 49

Dru@39
You betcha. Military is a necessary evil, but an evil nonetheless.

Have to disagree with you on that one (respectfully, of course). A military establishment, in and of itself, is morally neutral. It can be used for good or evil, and the civilian leadership who give the orders can and should be held accountable if military force is used inappropriately. If members of the armed forces behave in ways that contravene the laws of war, they can and should be held accountable. But carrying out a lawful order in a lawful way cannot be held to be evil. Down that road is chaos.

Isn’t it the duty of the military to refuse to follow illegal orders?

selise @ 98

DrDick @ 79

You have a point of course, but it really is a bit more complicated. I have known quite a few police over the years (and have read some research on them as well). Many of them demonstrate an amazing ability to compartmentalize their lives, much like soldiers. There is one set of rules “on the job” and another at home/off duty. Even still they often seem more inclined to the use of force than many people.

iirc (got this from zimbardo of standford prison experiment fame) wearing a uniform while “on the job” helps with the compartmentalization – while wearing the uniform (which acts as a means of diminishing individual accountability) behavior is permitted that would be considered anti-social if done as a civilian (without the uniform).

don’t know how important a factor this is compared to other things that may influence behavior. would be interested in your take on this…

It would certainly be helpful in that regard, though we are moving more into the realm of the psychiatrists and psychologists than we humble anthros.

eCAHNomics @ 99

I’ve must give more context to my remarks tonight. Courtesy of perris, I saw American Ganster this afternoon. Somethig like half (or more) of NYC Special Drug Force was convicted.

wow.

marymccurnin @ 100

This country has lost its moral god damn compass.

Sorry for the bad language.

Must you be so un-civil?
/s

eCAHNomics @ 103

Can`t remember where I learned this – but relatively high rates of spousal and child abuse in the families of police officers, prison guards, and soldiers.

As already mentioned, Stanford experiments. Power corrupts.

Police Officers, Prison Guards and Soldiers are all high stress jobs, I think that is a huge factor.

eCAHNomics @ 103

Can`t remember where I learned this – but relatively high rates of spousal and child abuse in the families of police officers, prison guards, and soldiers.

As already mentioned, Stanford experiments. Power corrupts.

Also people with authority issues tend to select occupations where they can exercise authority.

Isn’t it the duty of the military to refuse to follow illegal orders?

That’s how Watada got off, so far. But military is still prosecuting persecuting him.

tryggth @ 86

Jane… when do we get in the streets?

Impeachment: If not now, when?

Impeachment is squarely on the table, and momentum is building. A year ago, almost no elected official breathed the word impeachment. Now impeachment has hit the House floor, and our electeds have gone on record. Millions of Americans are demanding an end to executive abuse of power.

Fight the power…

If Congress were serious about oversight, there already would be dozens of bills and resolutions calling for impeachment of Bush and Cheney. The “Unitary Executive Theory” violates the principle of balance of power in the Constitution. The president cites this “unitary” power in hundreds of signing statements that say he can ignore laws passed by Congress.

The time is NOW!

Congress has failed to call the president and vice president to account, so citizens must turn up the heat. Members of Congress who fail to demand investigations are covering for criminals. Every elected official has sworn an oath to “support and protect the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.” Anything less than impeachment and a full repudiation of the Bush administration’s crimes and violations of the law is a dereliction of duty and a betrayal of the public trust.

If we want our democracy back, we need to roll up our sleeves and get to work to clean out the House.

The economy is in the tank.
The Administration is in the tank. BusChen must go.

Fern @ 101

marymccurnin @ 76

And spousal abuse that happens inside some cops’ homes. If they are tasing inappropriately on the outside think of how they treat their families.

Can`t remember where I learned this – but relatively high rates of spousal and child abuse in the families of police officers, prison guards, and soldiers.

The sad thing is that abusers were usually abused. Just look into GW’s poor heart and you will see an abused person. Neglected at best. On the previous thread someone spoke of not hating these people. Sympathy with containment (if possible) is the way to go. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t take to the streets.

eCAHNomics @ 99

I’ve must give more context to my remarks tonight. Courtesy of perris, I saw American Ganster this afternoon. Somethig like half (or more) of NYC Special Drug Force was convicted.

You have my sympathy there. I am well aware of the reputation and historical tendency for corruption and abuse in the NYPD. Saw some of that in Chicago as well and LA has certainly had more than its share of bad news that way. I think there is something about the organizational dynamic in big city police departments which feeds this kind of thing. Unfortunately I am not a criminologist and do not have the background to sort it all out.

More context. I’m a 63-year-old white woman living in a rich neighborhood. I’m constanting aware that I am postively profiled. Meaning that people not like me are constantly negatively profiled.

TeddySanFran @ 108

marymccurnin @ 100

This country has lost its moral god damn compass.

Sorry for the bad language.

Must you be so un-civil?
/s

Not everybody.

SunnyNobility @ 93

There are no words….

Wednesday, November 21, 2007
Taser in ER is at issue
Payments by Medicare to center at risk

By Monte Mitchell
JOURNAL REPORTER

NORTH WILKESBORO

The federal agency that oversees Medicare says it will stop payments to Wilkes Regional Medical Center on Dec. 1 after law-enforcement officers in two separate instances used a Taser to subdue a patient in the emergency room.

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services found that the hospital violated Medicare’s rules of participation.

Hospital officials say they have filed a plan to resolve the issue and don’t expect any disruption in payments.

Link

Sounds like it might have been a necessary use. I have seen hospital personnel injured by very large, very drunk men in the ER.

Barbara Bush’s abusive martini-laden golf days are to blame for the current world condition, but I don’t excuse her son either. Her child-rearing skills have left the world in the lurch, but it’s still really W’s fault. Others have escaped similar circumstances as whole people, without his soul-crushing sociopathy.

eCAHNomics @ 92

burnspspeq@85

A military establishment, in and of itself, is morally neutral.

So what are the stats? How many times have military been used for moral vs. immoral purposes?

I rest my case.

What case? That’s not a case, it’s an ill-defined straw man. I’m not playing semantic Calvinball with you.

marymccurnin @ 100

This country has lost its moral god damn compass.

Sorry for the bad language.

Yes, I believe it should more properly be goddamned (one word).

/bad language police…

DrDick @ 106

selise @ 98

iirc (got this from zimbardo of standford prison experiment fame) wearing a uniform while “on the job” helps with the compartmentalization – while wearing the uniform (which acts as a means of diminishing individual accountability) behavior is permitted that would be considered anti-social if done as a civilian (without the uniform).

don’t know how important a factor this is compared to other things that may influence behavior. would be interested in your take on this…

It would certainly be helpful in that regard, though we are moving more into the realm of the psychiatrists and psychologists than we humble anthros.

here’s an anthro for you:

People’s aggression can also increase when they feel anonymous–for example if they wear a uniform, hood or mask, Zimbardo said.

“You minimize social responsibility,” he explained. “Nobody knows who you are, so therefore you are not individually liable. There’s also a group effect when all of you are masked. It provides a fear in other people because they can’t see you, and you lose your humanity.”

For example, an experiment in 1974 by Harvard anthropologist John Watson evaluated 23 cultures to determine whether warriors who changed their appearance–such as with war paint or masks–treated their victims differently. As it turned out, 80 percent of warriors in these cultures were found to be more destructive–for example, killing, torturing or mutilating their victims–than unpainted or unmasked warriors.

One last Brian Lamb with this insightful Washington Post link much more telling then my previous pro-Lamb comment. ;~)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..ge=printer

eCAHNomics @ 115

More context. I’m a 63-year-old white woman living in a rich neighborhood. I’m constanting aware that I am postively profiled. Meaning that people not like me are constantly negatively profiled.

Great freaking comment…I had to read it twice!!! Bless you!!

TeddySanFran @ 118

Barbara Bush’s abusive martini-laden golf days are to blame for the current world condition, but I don’t excuse her son either. Her child-rearing skills have left the world in the lurch, but it’s still really W’s fault. Others have escaped similar circumstances as whole people, without his soul-crushing sociopathy.

He was handed the opportunity. He is doing the job he was born to. Finally, he is momma’s best boy.

Fern @ 110

eCAHNomics @ 103

As already mentioned, Stanford experiments. Power corrupts.

Also people with authority issues tend to select occupations where they can exercise authority.

I call it the “God Complex”.

Steve-AR @ 117

Sounds like it might have been a necessary use. I have seen hospital personnel injured by very large, very drunk men in the ER.

Definitely would not want to be in the ER when the polie brought in someone high on PCP or at the end of a really bad meth binge. Those guys are absolutely psycho and impervious to pain.

jayt @ 120

marymccurnin @ 100

This country has lost its moral god damn compass.

Sorry for the bad language.

Yes, I believe it should more properly be goddamned (one word).

/bad language police…

goddamned language police.

I think Frank Herbert said something about a standing army without a war to fight consumes the civil society.

burnspbesq @ 119

eCAHNomics @ 92

burnspspeq@85
So what are the stats? How many times have military been used for moral vs. immoral purposes?

I rest my case.

What case? That’s not a case, it’s an ill-defined straw man. I’m not playing semantic Calvinball with you.

707!

Hey Teddy. What’s Calvinball?

TeddySanFran @ 118

Barbara Bush’s abusive martini-laden golf days are to blame for the current world condition, but I don’t excuse her son either. Her child-rearing skills have left the world in the lurch, but it’s still really W’s fault. Others have escaped similar circumstances as whole people, without his soul-crushing sociopathy.

It’s the lesson of the pop beads…one fits into the next, and the next one fits into the next one, and the next one fits into the next one….

You have to break the chain….didn’t Fleetwood Mac sing something about that…break the chain…of cheating, of abuse of all kinds, of torture, of bad parenting…just sayin’.

LS @ 131

TeddySanFran @ 118

Barbara Bush’s abusive martini-laden golf days are to blame for the current world condition, but I don’t excuse her son either. Her child-rearing skills have left the world in the lurch, but it’s still really W’s fault. Others have escaped similar circumstances as whole people, without his soul-crushing sociopathy.

It’s the lesson of the pop beads…one fits into the next, and the next one fits into the next one, and the next one fits into the next one….

You have to break the chain….didn’t Fleetwood Mac sing something about that…break the chain…of cheating, of abuse of all kinds, of torture, of bad parenting…just sayin’.

Just think what Bab’s parents must have been like for her to turn out the way she did. I have nothing but comtempt for all of the Bush family.

LS@123
Recent experience. 3 days ago I bought a one-way airline ticket & borded the plane without any photo ID (courtesy of a family fight, when I took off for the airport, leaving my pocketbook at niece’s house). How many people would have been able to do that without my ‘profile’?

DrDick @ 126

Steve-AR @ 117

Sounds like it might have been a necessary use. I have seen hospital personnel injured by very large, very drunk men in the ER.

Definitely would not want to be in the ER when the polie brought in someone high on PCP or at the end of a really bad meth binge. Those guys are absolutely psycho and impervious to pain.

The interesting thing was that these big, tough, drugged and drunk guys would be brought in after a bar fight..and then would go crazy when they saw a “needle”.

burnspbesq @ 119

eCAHNomics @ 92

burnspspeq@85
So what are the stats? How many times have military been used for moral vs. immoral purposes?

I rest my case.

What case? That’s not a case, it’s an ill-defined straw man. I’m not playing semantic Calvinball with you.

i’m not so sure…(about the moral neutrality). if genuinely needed for self defense – then positive (not neutral). but, if not needed for self defense (or if way too large for legitimate self defense) – then i think it is a negative (again not neutral). one must weigh the damage done to people when they are taught to kill and also the opportunity costs for the labor and all the arms manufacturing.

DrDick @ 20

SnarKassandra @ 8

It is torture! Did you see that somebody died from it? And they’re using tasers on people that won’t show their driver license to the cops.

Several people have died in the US alone. There is a certain bitter irony here. Police largely moved to increasing use of tasers because of excessive excessive force issues surrounding the use of police batons. Tasers were supposed to allow officers subdue violent suspects without undue injury (or costly lawsuits). Now they have become just as big a problem as the night sticks were. US policing simply places far too much emphasis on use of force. In England and elsewhere, police training emphasizes nonviolent (though often more time consuming) methods of defusing situations.

I’m with Dr. Dick, but I firmly believe that Tasers are putting a number of the people that die into vfib and vtach and there’s zip to show on an autopsy for it as for a high percentage of acute cardiac events. That makes it next to impossible to prove the taser caused death and “law enforcement” will always claim a drug combo/and or alcohol caused the death which is rarely the case.

The people who are making big bucks from taser sales that are increasing exponentially will fight tooth and nail to protect them and the killing will continue.

Tasers are pandemic in the US because the good ole boys view them as a means of superiority and they are abused.

They should be taken out of circulation completely and permanantly, but because many people are consummately stupid they will continue to become pandemic among police and are now being sold commercially in pastel colors like razor phones and Iphones.

selise @ 121

DrDick @ 106

It would certainly be helpful in that regard, though we are moving more into the realm of the psychiatrists and psychologists than we humble anthros.

here’s an anthro for you:

People’s aggression can also increase when they feel anonymous–for example if they wear a uniform, hood or mask, Zimbardo said.

“You minimize social responsibility,” he explained. “Nobody knows who you are, so therefore you are not individually liable. There’s also a group effect when all of you are masked. It provides a fear in other people because they can’t see you, and you lose your humanity.”

For example, an experiment in 1974 by Harvard anthropologist John Watson evaluated 23 cultures to determine whether warriors who changed their appearance–such as with war paint or masks–treated their victims differently. As it turned out, 80 percent of warriors in these cultures were found to be more destructive–for example, killing, torturing or mutilating their victims–than unpainted or unmasked warriors.

As I said it would be useful in the process. Many cultures use ritual to demarcate behavioral boundaries. The Southeastern Indians I work with historically considered returning warriors as polluted and put them into seclusion and ritually purified them for four days before they were turned back into society.

As to the study in question, that is a terribly small sample of the thousands of documented cultures in the world and I would want to know a lot more about the sampling procedures before evaluating the validity of the findings.

Fern @ 104

Margot @ 84

Since when did police start tasering people at risk of hurting themselves?
I hope you get that case, JayT.

and then arresting him and his family. Absolutely inexplicable.

Mother made the mistake of asking the officer for his name and badge number after the cop tasered her son. Guaranteed arrest for her after that.

I’m not playing semantic Calvinball with you.

You don’t have to bother. I think other readers have understood my point.

eCAHNomics @ 133

LS@123
Recent experience. 3 days ago I bought a one-way airline ticket & borded the plane without any photo ID (courtesy of a family fight, when I took off for the airport, leaving my pocketbook at niece’s house). How many people would have been able to do that without my ‘profile’?

i’m surprised that even you were. i’m quite sure i would not.

p.s. very sorry about the family fight. they are the worst (imo).

jayt @ 138

Fern @ 104

and then arresting him and his family. Absolutely inexplicable.

Mother made the mistake of asking the officer for his name and badge number after the cop tasered her son. Guaranteed arrest for her after that.

Where did this happen?

DrDick @ 137

As I said it would be useful in the process. Many cultures use ritual to demarcate behavioral boundaries. The Southeastern Indians I work with historically considered returning warriors as polluted and put them into seclusion and ritually purified them for four days before they were turned back into society.

As to the study in question, that is a terribly small sample of the thousands of documented cultures in the world and I would want to know a lot more about the sampling procedures before evaluating the validity of the findings.

thank you… that is just the kind of helpful comment i was hoping for *g* (it helps this layperson put into better perspective something i’d read but didn’t know how to evaluate.).

selise@140
No one was more surprised than I. Great insight into Homeland Security. I have often said that if you wanted a successful terrorist attack, you needed to look just like me. Thankfully very few no? terrorists do.

Does not excuse negative profiling.

marymccurnin @ 141

jayt @ 138

Mother made the mistake of asking the officer for his name and badge number after the cop tasered her son. Guaranteed arrest for her after that.

Where did this happen?

Here in Indianapolis. I pretty much knew before she told me, when she said she’d done that, what she’d been charged with. I ticked them off, and she said – “yeah – how’d you know?”

Standard procedure.

selise @ 140

eCAHNomics @ 133

LS@123
Recent experience. 3 days ago I bought a one-way airline ticket & borded the plane without any photo ID (courtesy of a family fight, when I took off for the airport, leaving my pocketbook at niece’s house). How many people would have been able to do that without my ‘profile’?

i’m surprised that even you were. i’m quite sure i would not.

p.s. very sorry about the family fight. they are the worst (imo).

I have managed the same trick myself – before I got a passport I had no photo id – and did manage to get onto flights a number of times. It helped that I am a short, round, white woman in advanced middle age.

jayt @ 144

marymccurnin @ 141

Where did this happen?

Here in Indianapolis. I pretty much knew before she told me, when she said she’d done that, what she’d been charged with. I ticked them off, and she said – “yeah – how’d you know?”

Standard procedure.

What was she charged with.

OT..The GF sent me this:

How does Sears treat its employees who are called up for military duty? By law, they are required to hold their jobs open and available, but nothing more. Usually, people take a big pay cut and lose benefits as a result of being called up.

Sears is voluntarily paying the difference in salaries and maintaining all benefits, including medical insurance and bonus programs, for all called up reservist employees for up to two years.

I submit that Sears is an exemplary corporate citizen and should be recognized for its contribution. I suggest we all shop at Sears, and be sure to find a manager to tell them why we are there so the company gets the positive reinforcement it well deserves.

Interesting , if true.

Hey, Fern. Welcome to the my world!

Fern @ 145

It helped that I am a short, round, white woman in advanced middle age.

Nobody ever suspects the Pillsbury Dough People. 8~)

eCAHNomics @ 66

I am looking oh so forward to her sitting down for a conversation with CSpan founder Brian Lamb

I get the impression, despite HUGE efforts to
hide it, that Brian Lamb is a closet wingnut. Am I paranoid? Hopefully a personal conversation could unearth the truth?

I’ve seen Brian address this issue on air. He said that many there are deeply interested in politics and have their own personal views, which constant watchers could probably discern.

Went on to say that they all go to pains to keep their personal views from affecting their work.

Judging from a couple of interactions of his I’ve seen, I’m quite sure he’s no DFH, but I do admire what he has done with C-SPAN enormously and think he’s one of the best interviewers around. I, too, would love to see him interact with Jane. Nice thing about his interviews is he doesn’t overly rely on telephoners nor does he tolerate fools (of any stripe) for long.

DrDick @ 149

Fern @ 145

It helped that I am a short, round, white woman in advanced middle age.

Nobody ever suspects the Pillsbury Dough People. 8~)

LOL

Fern @ 145

selise @ 140

i’m surprised that even you were. i’m quite sure i would not.

p.s. very sorry about the family fight. they are the worst (imo).

I have managed the same trick myself – before I got a passport I had no photo id – and did manage to get onto flights a number of times. It helped that I am a short, round, white woman in advanced middle age.

What is advanced middle age? I think I might have that.

DrDick @ 149

Fern @ 145

It helped that I am a short, round, white woman in advanced middle age.

Nobody ever suspects the Pillsbury Dough People. 8~)

Plus I look extremely sincere. Especially when I make an effort to do so.

eCAHNomics @ 133

LS@123
Recent experience. 3 days ago I bought a one-way airline ticket & borded the plane without any photo ID (courtesy of a family fight, when I took off for the airport, leaving my pocketbook at niece’s house). How many people would have been able to do that without my ‘profile’?

I hear you. Interestingly, my ex comes from a pretty hot country, from a pretty hot family (the good side from my point-of-view)..in the Caribbean…his Mom died about 6 weeks ago…he flew to D.C. to update his passport, flew to the funeral…and came back..no problem. Hmmm…I flew to France a couple of years ago, and was pulled out of line (pre-blogging), and the biatch TSA told me that there was a number on my “ticket” that said I should be scanned…I was pulled aside and wanded..etc., in front of everyone in line, and, of course, I had nothing to hide, because the only thing I had, I guess…was my opinions…or the fact that my parents were in the Foreign Service many years ago..of an ally….I don’t know why it was on my ticket. Go figure!!???

That TSA lady was nasty biatch, too BTW.

marymccurnin @ 130

Hey Teddy. What’s Calvinball?

grrr
Calvinball
*g*

Fern @ 146

jayt @ 144

Here in Indianapolis. I pretty much knew before she told me, when she said she’d done that, what she’d been charged with. I ticked them off, and she said – “yeah – how’d you know?”

Standard procedure.

What was she charged with.

Resisting and battery on an officer.

hmmm, people who live in rich neighborhoods are usually……..rich!

just in case anyone forgot.

eCAHNomics @ 92

burnspspeq@85

A military establishment, in and of itself, is morally neutral.

So what are the stats? How many times have military been used for moral vs. immoral purposes?

I rest my case.

Umm… After Hurricane Iniki we assisted in evacuating tourists, providing ice, generators, food, security… Hmmm… Certainly a moral purpose…

TeddySanFran @ 155

marymccurnin @ 130

Hey Teddy. What’s Calvinball?

grrr
Calvinball

*g*

I love you Teddy.

CTuttle @ 157

eCAHNomics @ 92

burnspspeq@85
So what are the stats? How many times have military been used for moral vs. immoral purposes?

I rest my case.

Umm… After Hurricane Iniki we assisted in evacuating tourists, providing ice, generators, food, security… Hmmm… Certainly a moral purpose…

Seem to remember something at the Little Rock High School a while back as well.

jayt @ 156

Fern @ 146

What was she charged with.

Resisting and battery on an officer.

Sounds like the only ‘battery’ involved was the one that shot the 50,000 volts into her son.

jayt @ 156

Fern @ 146

What was she charged with.

Resisting and battery on an officer.

I believe this falls into the category of unfuckingbelievable.

Go get `em.

marymccurnin @ 152

Fern @ 145

I have managed the same trick myself – before I got a passport I had no photo id – and did manage to get onto flights a number of times. It helped that I am a short, round, white woman in advanced middle age.

What is advanced middle age? I think I might have that.

Is it contagious?
Is there a vaccine?

LS @ 154

eCAHNomics @ 133

LS@123
Recent experience. 3 days ago I bought a one-way airline ticket & borded the plane without any photo ID (courtesy of a family fight, when I took off for the airport, leaving my pocketbook at niece’s house). How many people would have been able to do that without my ‘profile’?

I hear you. Interestingly, my ex comes from a pretty hot country, from a pretty hot family (the good side from my point-of-view)..in the Caribbean…his Mom died about 6 weeks ago…he flew to D.C. to update his passport, flew to the funeral…and came back..no problem. Hmmm…I flew to France a couple of years ago, and was pulled out of line (pre-blogging), and the biatch TSA told me that there was a number on my “ticket” that said I should be scanned…I was pulled aside and wanded..etc., in front of everyone in line, and, of course, I had nothing to hide, because the only thing I had, I guess…was my opinions…or the fact that my parents were in the Foreign Service many years ago..of an ally….I don’t know why it was on my ticket. Go figure!!???

That TSA lady was nasty biatch, too BTW.

The airlines, when they did the screening, “randomly” tagged tickets for special treatment. I was always the “random” selection.

TeddySanFran @ 162

marymccurnin @ 152

What is advanced middle age? I think I might have that.

Is it contagious?
Is there a vaccine?

Not contagious, but it is progressive, I hear.

TeddySanFran @ 162

marymccurnin @ 152

What is advanced middle age? I think I might have that.

Is it contagious?
Is there a vaccine?

It is not contagious, but it is progressive and incurable.

SunnyNobility@150

Went on to say that they all go to pains to keep their personal views from affecting their work.

I agree. And I admire C-SPAN for trying. Which is why I question whether I am paranoid about Brian Lamb.

Even so, after watching for nearly 8 years, I think I discern biases. No way that people who are as interested in politics as he is can be neutral. I’d almost prefer that he (and the other hosts of WJ) drop the pretense & declare their political biases. Truthiness, dontcha know.

Fern @ 161

jayt @ 156

Resisting and battery on an officer.

I believe this falls into the category of unfuckingbelievable.

Go get `em.

Suicidal son and his girlfriend caught the same charges, plus felony neglect of a dependent since there was a baby present…

TeddySanFran @ 162

marymccurnin @ 152

What is advanced middle age? I think I might have that.

Is it contagious?
Is there a vaccine?

I know what the ultimate cure is.

marymccurnin @ 168

TeddySanFran @ 162

Is it contagious?
Is there a vaccine?

I know what the ultimate cure is.

Death? ;-)

the shock doctrine

powerfull youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kieyjfZDUIc

you must show that to everyone you know, the knowledge of the technique itself is inoculation

important stuff, the adminsitration is now having people report others who are “discontent” with the government

scary scary scary

jayt @ 167

Fern @ 161

I believe this falls into the category of unfuckingbelievable.

Go get `em.

Suicidal son and his girlfriend caught the same charges, plus felony neglect of a dependent since there was a baby present…

I`m speechless.

DrDick @ 166

TeddySanFran @ 162

Is it contagious?
Is there a vaccine?

It is not contagious, but it is progressive and incurable.

sometimes leading to old age.

TeddySanFran @ 162

marymccurnin @ 152

What is advanced middle age? I think I might have that.

Is it contagious?
Is there a vaccine?

it’s inevitably terminal and terminally inevitable

I know that I’m late to the party but have you heard about this?
Tasers replace Tupperware at local women’s parties

They removed the one way tickets from the “Targeted items” because they were tagging all the TeeVee guys going from city to city during the playoffs. Fits the profiles, single male …one way tickets purchased just a few days before travel. Just make those 1K travelers life more fun.

DrDick @ 160

CTuttle @ 157

Umm… After Hurricane Iniki we assisted in evacuating tourists, providing ice, generators, food, security… Hmmm… Certainly a moral purpose…

Seem to remember something at the Little Rock High School a while back as well.

This is the 50th anniversary of the 101 Airborne in Little Rock.

TexBetsy @ 172

DrDick @ 166

It is not contagious, but it is progressive and incurable.

sometimes leading to old age.

Uh huh. I`m starting to deal with the falling-apart-parent thing.

Seem to remember something at the Little Rock High School a while back as well.

Didn’t say there was NEVER any good wrought by military. Just proferred that the stats might show that they do FAR more harm than good, just like U.S. foreign policy. Don’t suppose the miltary has actually kept any stats (kill/cure ratio?). I wonder why.

& Little Rock was National Guard. Not exactly the same as foreign adventurism.

not a knee jerker @ 157

hmmm, people who live in rich neighborhoods are usually……..rich!

just in case anyone forgot.

???????????

perris @ 170

the shock doctrine

powerfull youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kieyjfZDUIc

Send it via email to all you know. Start burning cd’s of it and handing them out at random. Go to Walmart and Target, stand next to the guy trying to get signatures to crash the presidential election (in Cali) and give them to everyone.

TeddySanFran @ 163

marymccurnin @ 152

What is advanced middle age? I think I might have that.

Is it contagious?
Is there a vaccine?

No vaccine, but there’s a pill.

Steve-AR @ 179

not a knee jerker @ 157

hmmm, people who live in rich neighborhoods are usually……..rich!

just in case anyone forgot.

???????????

I think I get it. Well protected by cops?

Steve-AR @ 175

DrDick @ 160

Seem to remember something at the Little Rock High School a while back as well.

This is the 50th anniversary of the 101 Airborne in Little Rock.

They have been up in the sky that long?

eCAHNomics @ 177

Seem to remember something at the Little Rock High School a while back as well.

Didn’t say there was NEVER any good wrought by military. Just proferred that the stats might show that they do FAR more harm than good, just like U.S. foreign policy. Don’t suppose the miltary has actually kept any stats (kill/cure ratio?). I wonder why.

& Little Rock was National Guard. Not exactly the same as foreign adventurism.

Negative! Ike had to send in Federal troops, the NG was standing by the Guv trying to stop it…

eCAHNomics @ 177

Seem to remember something at the Little Rock High School a while back as well.

Didn’t say there was NEVER any good wrought by military. Just proferred that the stats might show that they do FAR more harm than good, just like U.S. foreign policy. Don’t suppose the miltary has actually kept any stats (kill/cure ratio?). I wonder why.

& Little Rock was National Guard. Not exactly the same as foreign adventurism.

I have not been able to find this again – but someone had a blog that listed every military adventure the American army had ever been involved in. There was not one single year without something. It was not cheerful reading.

i hope we can take our country back soon

eCAHNomics @ 178

Seem to remember something at the Little Rock High School a while back as well.

Didn’t say there was NEVER any good wrought by military. Just proferred that the stats might show that they do FAR more harm than good, just like U.S. foreign policy. Don’t suppose the miltary has actually kept any stats (kill/cure ratio?). I wonder why.

& Little Rock was National Guard. Not exactly the same as foreign adventurism.

Little Rock Central were portions of the 101 Airborne Division. Specifically the 1st Airborne Battle Group, 327th Infantry (bearing the lineage of the old Company A, 327th Glider Infantry Regiment).

Hey perris. Just noticed that you showed up. Saw American Gangster this afternoon. Loved it. Thanks for the recommendation.

selise @ 121

DrDick @ 106

It would certainly be helpful in that regard, though we are moving more into the realm of the psychiatrists and psychologists than we humble anthros.

here’s an anthro for you:

People’s aggression can also increase when they feel anonymous–for example if they wear a uniform, hood or mask, Zimbardo said.

“You minimize social responsibility,” he explained. “Nobody knows who you are, so therefore you are not individually liable. There’s also a group effect when all of you are masked. It provides a fear in other people because they can’t see you, and you lose your humanity.”

For example, an experiment in 1974 by Harvard anthropologist John Watson evaluated 23 cultures to determine whether warriors who changed their appearance–such as with war paint or masks–treated their victims differently. As it turned out, 80 percent of warriors in these cultures were found to be more destructive–for example, killing, torturing or mutilating their victims–than unpainted or unmasked warriors.

I had a friend who was involved in handing of large primates, chimps and orangatans both for research and for the movies. He told me that the most dangerous place to be is outside the cage but within their amazingly long reach. When you’re on the outside, and they’re inside, they feel that you can’t get at them.

Similarly, I know of teachers who make it a point to learn everyone’s name and to make it known that they know everyone’s name during the first week of classes. Again the rationale is the same: a sense of anonymity breeds an inappropriate sense of security.

Negative! Ike had to send in Federal troops, the NG was standing by the Guv trying to stop it…

I stand corrected. Still, it wasn’t foreinng adventurism.

eCAHNomics @ 182

Steve-AR @ 179

???????????

I think I get it. Well protected by cops?

I though maybe “means testing” had been implemented for commenter’s.

Steve-AR @ 163

LS @ 154

I hear you. Interestingly, my ex comes from a pretty hot country, from a pretty hot family (the good side from my point-of-view)..in the Caribbean…his Mom died about 6 weeks ago…he flew to D.C. to update his passport, flew to the funeral…and came back..no problem. Hmmm…I flew to France a couple of years ago, and was pulled out of line (pre-blogging), and the biatch TSA told me that there was a number on my “ticket” that said I should be scanned…I was pulled aside and wanded..etc., in front of everyone in line, and, of course, I had nothing to hide, because the only thing I had, I guess…was my opinions…or the fact that my parents were in the Foreign Service many years ago..of an ally….I don’t know why it was on my ticket. Go figure!!???

That TSA lady was nasty biatch, too BTW.

The airlines, when they did the screening, “randomly” tagged tickets for special treatment. I was always the “random” selection.

They lie. They told me it was a code/number on my ticket.

Fern @ 185

eCAHNomics @ 177

Didn’t say there was NEVER any good wrought by military. Just proferred that the stats might show that they do FAR more harm than good, just like U.S. foreign policy. Don’t suppose the miltary has actually kept any stats (kill/cure ratio?). I wonder why.

& Little Rock was National Guard. Not exactly the same as foreign adventurism.

I have not been able to find this again – but someone had a blog that listed every military adventure the American army had ever been involved in. There was not one single year without something. It was not cheerful reading.

here are some.

I though maybe “means testing” had been implemented for commenter’s

.

Cops are well aware of who has means & who doesn’t. It’s easy to figure out.

eCAHNomics @ 188

Hey perris. Just noticed that you showed up. Saw American Gangster this afternoon. Loved it. Thanks for the recommendation.

Denzel is amazing as an actor.

wigwam- I always make it a point to learn my students’ names for several reasons. We have a draconian system for teaching evaluations, including the question “how interested was the teacher in you” (or something like that). Of course I know their names! ;)

Steve-AR @ 195

eCAHNomics @ 188

Hey perris. Just noticed that you showed up. Saw American Gangster this afternoon. Loved it. Thanks for the recommendation.

Denzel is amazing as an actor.

Going this week.
No spoilers please :)

eCAHNomics @ 194

I though maybe “means testing” had been implemented for commenter’s

.

Cops are well aware of who has means & who doesn’t. It’s easy to figure out.

yes – and typically it’s not just clothes and accessories. hair cut, nails and general bearing.

selise @ 198

eCAHNomics @ 194

.

Cops are well aware of who has means & who doesn’t. It’s easy to figure out.

yes – and typically it’s not just clothes and accessories. hair cut, nails and general bearing.

and address, furnishings, etc

selise @ 193

Fern @ 185

I have not been able to find this again – but someone had a blog that listed every military adventure the American army had ever been involved in. There was not one single year without something. It was not cheerful reading.

here are some.

That was quick!

Not the one I was thinking of, but similar.

selise @ 192

Fern @ 185

I have not been able to find this again – but someone had a blog that listed every military adventure the American army had ever been involved in. There was not one single year without something. It was not cheerful reading.

here are some.

US Military interventions in Latin America in the 20th century:
Honduras 1903
Dominican Republic 1903-04
Cuba 1906-09
Nicaragua 1907
Honduras 1907
Panama 1908
Nicaragua 1910
Honduras 1911
Cuba 1912
Panama 1912
Honduras 1912
Nicaragua 1912-33
Mexico 1913
Dominican Republic 1914
Mexico 1914-18
Haiti 1914-34
Dominican Republic 1916-24
Panama 1918-20
Honduras 1919
Guatemala 1920
Costa Rica 1921
Panama 1921
Honduras 1924-25
Panama 1925
El Salvador 1932
Uruguay 1947
Panama 1958
Panama 1964
Dominican Republic 1965-66
Honduras 1982-90
Grenada 1983-84
Bolivia 1987
Panama 1989
Haiti 1994

Hey Steve.
They lie.
The van my husband had when we met (5 years ago) has a license plate that reads theylie.
Ha.
It makes a great back-up vehicle for when, ya know, somebody needs one.
One time, when I was driving it, a guy asked me why I hate guys so much. huh? he thought it meant guys. I told him Who It Meant.
I’ve been lurking, but, that comment brought me back to reality.

Fern @ 200

selise @ 193

here are some.

That was quick!

Not the one I was thinking of, but similar.

read his book when i was going through my world view change on america’s place and history in the world. it made an impression.

selise @ 198

eCAHNomics @ 194

.

Cops are well aware of who has means & who doesn’t. It’s easy to figure out.

yes – and typically it’s not just clothes and accessories. hair cut, nails and general bearing.

Once in Sonoma I made a California rolling stop thru a stop sign at 3 in the morning. I was pulled over by two cops. I rolled down my window and with my best southern belle accent asked them whatever did they want? Combined with that demeanor and my address they let me go. Chumps.

marymccurnin @ 203

Once in Sonoma I made a California rolling stop thru a stop sign at 3 in the morning. I was pulled over by two cops. I rolled down my window and with my best southern belle accent asked them whatever did they want? Combined with that demeanor and my address they let me go. Chumps.

This is exactly why I NEVER mess with southern belles

demi @ 201

Hey Steve.
They lie.
The van my husband had when we met (5 years ago) has a license plate that reads theylie.
Ha.
It makes a great back-up vehicle for when, ya know, somebody needs one.
One time, when I was driving it, a guy asked me why I hate guys so much. huh? he thought it meant guys. I told him Who It Meant.
I’ve been lurking, but, that comment brought me back to reality.

Is there any question as to whether they lie????

Noooooooo.

They lied, they lie, they are gonna lie, and….parallel universe…they’re surely lyin’ there too!!

DrDick @ 205

marymccurnin @ 203

Once in Sonoma I made a California rolling stop thru a stop sign at 3 in the morning. I was pulled over by two cops. I rolled down my window and with my best southern belle accent asked them whatever did they want? Combined with that demeanor and my address they let me go. Chumps.

This is exactly why I NEVER mess with southern belles

Cause we ahr sweet and mean.

Steve-AR @ 117

SunnyNobility @ 93

(snip)
Link

Sounds like it might have been a necessary use. I have seen hospital personnel injured by very large, very drunk men in the ER.

Perhaps, but would be more compelling if it were just one instance. A properly staffed emergency room should be generally equipped to handle drunk/psychotic patients. Two instances this close together carries the whiff of shortcut over-reliance/understaffing.

Possibly tasering should be treated like gun shots – w/after action reviews.

selise @ 203

Fern @ 200

That was quick!

Not the one I was thinking of, but similar.

read his book when i was going through my world view change on america’s place and history in the world. it made an impression.

That it would. When people say – as they often do – that they want their country back, I think – sorry, this is your country. All they have lost is their illusions.

Steve-AR @ 195

eCAHNomics @ 188

Hey perris. Just noticed that you showed up. Saw American Gangster this afternoon. Loved it. Thanks for the recommendation.

Denzel is amazing as an actor.

one of the top five movie lines of all times;

edit, removed quote so as not to spoil however if you saw the quote it’s not ruined by knowing it

marymccurnin @ 207

DrDick @ 205

This is exactly why I NEVER mess with southern belles

Cause we ahr sweet and mean.

Kiss like an angel and kick like a mule.

Tasering six yr olds!

newtonusr @ 211

marymccurnin @ 207

Cause we ahr sweet and mean.

Kiss like an angel and kick like a mule.

bless your little heart

I call it theyliemobile.
:)
The funkiest van ever.
Bought to haul around the B-3.

SunnyNobility @ 208

Steve-AR @ 117

Sounds like it might have been a necessary use. I have seen hospital personnel injured by very large, very drunk men in the ER.

Perhaps, but would be more compelling if it were just one instance. A properly staffed emergency room should be generally equipped to handle drunk/psychotic patients. Two instances this close together carries the whiff of shortcut over-reliance/understaffing.

Possibly tasering should be treated like gun shots – w/after action reviews.

It is health care today. Gotta save money but not lives. Sucks from top to bottom. (my first husband was an er doc.)

SunnyNobility @ 207

Steve-AR @ 117

Sounds like it might have been a necessary use. I have seen hospital personnel injured by very large, very drunk men in the ER.

Perhaps, but would be more compelling if it were just one instance. A properly staffed emergency room should be generally equipped to handle drunk/psychotic patients. Two instances this close together carries the whiff of shortcut over-reliance/understaffing.

Possibly tasering should be treated like gun shots – w/after action reviews.

I think that might be useful in all “use of force” situations, especially those involving weapons of any sort (night sticks, tasers, mace, etc.)

newtonusr @ 210

marymccurnin @ 207

Cause we ahr sweet and mean.

Kiss like an angel and kick like a mule.

The razor steel fist in the velvet glove.

Suzanne @ 213

newtonusr @ 211

Kiss like an angel and kick like a mule.

bless your little heart

Evening, Ma Cheri! Ya might not want to read this thread…

Suzanne @ 213

newtonusr @ 211

Kiss like an angel and kick like a mule.

bless your little heart

Suzanne!
and
Demi!

SunnyNobility @ 208

Steve-AR @ 117

Sounds like it might have been a necessary use. I have seen hospital personnel injured by very large, very drunk men in the ER.

Perhaps, but would be more compelling if it were just one instance. A properly staffed emergency room should be generally equipped to handle drunk/psychotic patients. Two instances this close together carries the whiff of shortcut over-reliance/understaffing.

Possibly tasering should be treated like gun shots – w/after action reviews.

So how did hospitals handle these situations before they had tasers.

New thread up above.

Fern @ 209

selise @ 203

read his book when i was going through my world view change on america’s place and history in the world. it made an impression.

That it would. When people say – as they often do – that they want their country back, I think – sorry, this is your country. All they have lost is their illusions.

the illusion i hate to loose is the one where americans have to be lied to because they would otherwise never support aggressive war,regime change, torture, secret prisons and gov. spying. the one where americans valiantly fight for all that is good and just – not the one where we don’t give a shit.

hanging out with you-all reminds me that it is not always illusion.

marymccurnin @ 204

selise @ 198

yes – and typically it’s not just clothes and accessories. hair cut, nails and general bearing.

Once in Sonoma I made a California rolling stop thru a stop sign at 3 in the morning. I was pulled over by two cops. I rolled down my window and with my best southern belle accent asked them whatever did they want? Combined with that demeanor and my address they let me go. Chumps.

Did the same thing in New Jersey. Was speeding & got pulled over but claimed I never saw the lowered speed limit in construction zone signs as I travelled the same route every Sunday night for years. Cop saw my sleeping 10-year-old & let me go. Another unfair positive-prfiling story. A friend toal me his ex-wife cried every time she got pulled over & got away with it every time.

Now I think we gals ought to shut up. Pretty soon the guys are going to get really upset with how many privledges we have.

The day they announce that government has come to a halt…such as in Pakistan….will cause a great Shock and Awe, once again, in our society…Please……., there are great minds out there that see this almost upon us….

Don’t play chicken….be the fox, be the bull, be the stallion. Don’t put up with this…

Just Stop it Now!

US Military interventions in Latin America in the 20th century:

Honduras 1903
Dominican Republic 1903-04
Cuba 1906-09
Nicaragua 1907
Honduras 1907
Panama 1908
Nicaragua 1910
Honduras 1911
Cuba 1912
Panama 1912
Honduras 1912
Nicaragua 1912-33
Mexico 1913
Dominican Republic 1914
Mexico 1914-18
Haiti 1914-34
Dominican Republic 1916-24
Panama 1918-20
Honduras 1919
Guatemala 1920
Costa Rica 1921
Panama 1921
Honduras 1924-25
Panama 1925
El Salvador 1932
Uruguay 1947
Panama 1958
Panama 1964
Dominican Republic 1965-66
Honduras 1982-90
Grenada 1983-84
Bolivia 1987
Panama 1989
Haiti 1994

More importantly, thanks to American hegemony all of these nations (except Cuba) are more peaceful, free, prosperous, and stable than at any time in their violent and despotic past.

Source: Freedom House, 2007.

I also posted a response that was censored, I will re-post:

While the many lament holding suspected terrorists underwater or the use of the tazer on stupid, impaired, and potentially dangerous malcontents; many on this blog support or disregard the annual murder and torture of tens of thousands of our most vulnerable and innocent (without anesthesia) — babies in the third trimester.

We need to be reminded that these 6-9 month old innocents have (1) self-awareness, (2) feel pain, and (3) understand the horror associated with their murders. These innocents are brutalized by a forced hollow metal rod injected into the babies skull and the brains sucked out.

In summary, hypocrisy, barbarism, (and censorship) appear to be the cornerstone of Progressive “thought”.

“If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all.” ~Noam Chomsky

“Censorship of anything, at any time, in any place, on whatever pretense, has always been and always be the last resort of the boob and the bigot.”Eugene Gladstone O’Neill, American playwright

Why can’t they use a non-violent way to immobilize – such as laughing gas.
Laughter is good for you.