I had originally intended to write a rather cynical Thanksgiving weekend post – pointing out that the Indian tribes who helped the pilgrims in that first thanksgiving feast made a big mistake by helping Europeans figure out how to live and prosper in the new world. Their reward, ultimately, was slavery, scalp bounties, smallpox (sometimes deliberately spread) and, in the end, genocide. But it turns out the story has an interesting twist:
The Puritans were religious radicals being driven into exile out of England. Since their story is well known, I will not repeat it here. They settled and built a colony which they called the “Plymouth Plantation”, near the ruins of a former Native village of the Pawtuxet Nation. Only one Pawtuxet had survived, a man named Squanto, who had spent time as a slave to the English. Since he understood the language and customs of the Puritans, he taught them to use the corn growing wild from the abandoned fields of the village, taught them to fish, and about the foods, herbs and fruits of this land. Squanto also negotiated a peace treaty between the Puritans and the Wampanoag Nation, a very large Native nation which totally surrounded the new Plymouth Plantation. Because of Squanto’s efforts, the Puritans enjoyed almost 15 years of peaceful harmony with the surrounding Natives, and they prospered.
At the end of their first year, the Puritans held a great feast following the harvest of their new farming efforts. The feast honored Squanto and their friends, the Wampanoags. The feast was followed by 3 days of “thanksgiving” celebrating their good fortune. This feast produced the image of the first Thanksgiving that we all grew up with as children. However, things were doomed to change.
Until approximately 1629, there were only about 300 Puritans living in widely scattered settlements around New England. As word leaked back to England about their peaceful and prosperous life, more Puritans arrived by the boatloads. As the numbers of Puritans grew, the question of ownership of the land became a major issue. The Puritans came from the belief of individual needs and prosperity, and had no concept of tribal living, or group sharing. It was clear that these heathen savages had no claim on the land because it had never been subdued, cultivated and farmed in the European manner, and there were no fences or other boundaries marked.
The land was clearly “public domain”, and there for the taking. This attitude met with great resistance from the original Puritans who held their Native benefactors in high regard. These first Puritan settlers were summarily excommunicated and expelled from the church.
I had assumed that those who had been saved, had been helped, by the natives, had turned against them. It seems that wasn’t the case.
Later on different types of Thanksgiving days occurred:
In 1641, the Dutch governor of Manhattan offered the first scalp bounty; a common practice in many European countries. This was broadened by the Puritans to include a bounty for Natives fit to be sold for slavery. The Dutch and Puritans joined forces to exterminate all Natives from New England, and village after village fell. Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches of Manhattan announced a day of “thanksgiving” to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. This was the 2nd Thanksgiving. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets of Manhattan like soccer balls.
The killing took on a frenzy, with days of thanksgiving being held after each successful massacre. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape. Their chief was beheaded, and his head placed on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts — where it remained for 24 years. Each town held thanksgiving days to celebrate their own victories over the Natives until it became clear that there needed to be an order to these special occasions. It was George Washington who finally brought a system and a schedule to thanksgiving when he declared one day to be celebrated across the nation as Thanksgiving Day.
Pleasant, no?
I don’t generally dwell on the fact that the US and Canada are countries based on the destruction of the original inhabitants of the land. Genocide, for all that we act as if it were suddenly invented in the 20th century by the Nazis, or perhaps by the Turks, is nearly as ancient as recorded history. The Roman destruction of Carthage, perhaps the most famous genocide of ancient history, was hardly the first. Nor is modern weaponry necessary, as both Genghis Khan, who had entire cities slaughtered, and the Hutus, with their slaughter of half a million to a million Tutsis, primarily with machetes, could attest. Sharp objects don’t run out of bullets, after all.
Yet, no question, the natives would have been wiser to have never helped Europeans learn how to survive the new world, even if one can argue that in the end, the result probably would have been the same.
Still, I come back to this, the Puritans who were helped by the Indians resisted to the point of excommunication the destruction of their benefactors. Such a penalty, at the time, was the equivalent of being ostracized from their communities, other puritans were forbidden to have any civil comunication with them whatsoever, including eating with them.
This is the point in an essay where I’d normally draw a lesson, but I don’t know that I have one. What I do know, from my own personal experience is that many people aren’t even as thankful as those pilgrims – helping someone often creates resentment. And certainly one should never expect thankfulness to extend to those not directly helped, even if they indirectly benefit. But the effect of gratitude runs both ways. As a child one of the first full novels I ever read was Ernest Thomas Seton’s “Rolf In the Woods” about a white teenager effectively adopted by an Indian in early 19th century America. The Indian helps him, and then, as Seton notes, feels both kindly towards him and a sense of responsbility for the young man’s continued wellbeing.
We tend to look well upon those we’ve helped, especially if they respond with gratitude and make good use of what we’ve given, be it knowledge or material goods. Helping people makes us feel better about ourselves. Empathy, the ability to feel another’s pain, is as naturally human as is callousness, let alone the actual enjoyment of the pain of others, empathy’s dark twin. Feeling another’s pain we either wish to relieve it, or we close ourselves off to the other person. To do so requires making that person, or those people, into something other than ourselves. It’s much easier not to feel for those who aren’t like you, who are lesser, who are, indeed, nothing but uncivilized beasts or savages, little more than animals.
The Puritans who had personally been helped by, feasted with, and befriended by the Indians couldn’t do this. And the natives who had befriended the Puritans couldn’t do it either. They had been made aware that both sides were like them, were human. The Puritans felt grateful, the Indians, benevolent.
But those who came afterwards, those who benefitted from the knowledge the Indians had given, but never dealt with them as humans, they could feel superior. They could know, not that they had needed the Indians help and that it had been given, and that in exchange they were able to help the Indians by giving or trading them steel and iron goods and other advanced European items, but that the Indians were nothing but animals, who didn’t own the land and were savages fit for death.
There was no room for empathy, or for a bond of thankfulness to occur. For the reciprocity of favors and affection that leads to friendship.
And so those Indian tribes were virtually destroyed. And yet we still pretend we are thankful for what they gave, when the record shows that the only people who were thankful were a few hundred Puritans who were rewarded for their faithfulness by excommunication.
Every Thanksgiving I’ve thought of those who died, a sour smile on my face. But in Thanksgivings to come I’ll think also of those who didn’t break faith. A bitter silver lining perhaps, but I find in such things the true gold of the human spirit, untarnished even in failure.
Related posts:
- Late Night: Limbaugh is a Turkey – Claims Thanksgiving Hijacked by Obama’s State Dinner
- Pres. Clinton: Your legacy on gay issues is about the future, not the past
- “Silver Bullet” in the Head for the Public Option
- Breuer’s Claims about Future Investigations Undermined by Cheney’s Claims about the Past
- Is Obama Whistling Past the Graveyard on Afghanistan?





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Zed!
Ian!
Ian!
What the heck? I’m being civil… What’s prompting my being moderated on every comment?
Ian, have you seen the charts of Citigroup, Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac? Are we in a recession and nobody told me?
Sandman @ 5
We’re in the middle of a financial crisis which will lead to a recession, and maybe a depression.
The forclosure rate went from about 1% to about 2% and yet the stocks just tanked.
Ian – thanks so for this post. I had not read about the excommunications either and that’s a powerful little piece of hope.
Ian, the Puritans migrated to Hawaii in the early 1800’s and devastated the Hawaiian nation! They squelched the language, culture and traditions! It wasn’t until the 1960’s and beyond that they were able to revitalize the culture and language!
Sandman @ 5
Are U.S. Investors Still in Denial?
Insert FAIR AND BALANCED BS…
Wow Ian, that is a moving post…
The earliest recorded order for Genocide?
16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy [a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you.
Good post, Ian. One minor quibble, however. Those tribes are not gone. They are still there. The Pequots (despite the Puritans best genocidal efforts in the Pequot war of the 1600s) now operate the largest and most successful Indian casino in the country. The Narragansetts are also still there and the last native speaker of their language only died in the 1930s. The Delaware (of New Jersey and eastern New York) now live in Oklahoma (some just north of where I grew up). Indeed most of the New England and Middle Atlantic tribes are still around, including the Powhattans, whom the Virginia colonists also tried to exterminate in the 1670s. Their numbers are greatly reduced, they have heavily intermarried with anglo- and afro-Americans, and have lost much of their culture, but they are still there and they still retain their identities, despite almost 400 years of efforts to destroy them.
Help, Mods. I seem to be in moderation limbo here.
DrDick @ 14
Hard-refresh, Dr…
Dr DIck – there have been very serious questions raised at least about the Pequots and whether those running the casino are actually descended from the tribe. I don’t know the answer but there’s been a lot of shady stuff behind some of those deals or so I’ve read.
Fine essay, Ian. On Bill Moyer’s Journal last night, his guest was Dr. James Cone, talking about “the cross and the hanging tree.” A principal theme was the need for Americans to let go of the illusion of innocence, to understand what had been done, often in the name of Christianity. The topic related to black slavery, but could well have been about the relationship between early European settlers and those already here.
The Lurking Mod @ 15
Got it, thanks.
The Lurking Mod @ 15
The filters are touchy today, eh? 8-)
How does one deliberately spread smallpox, and to what end? Given that there was a high mortality rate and no effective vaccine at the time, I’m having trouble understanding how this could be anything but a bizarre “urban” legend. Got some backup for this?
One thing to keep in mind about helping, is that some who help expect obeisance from the helped. And there is a strong tendency to mistake disinclination to obeisance for ungratefulness. They are very different things.
burnspbesq @ 20
The Anglo-Canadians distributed blankets that were used by smallpox patients amongst the natives… I’m not sure where I can find a definitive link, but, I’ve read scholarly tomes about it…
burnspbesq @ 20
Maybe the people doing the spreading had already had the disease. Wouldn’t that make them immune?
I guess they used blankets that were infected.
Sorry to go OT, but is it just me, or is Agonist off-line today?
PhysioProf @ 24
They seem to be off-line.
DrDick @ 13
Thanks Doc. Corrected.
burnspbesq @ 20
Sending bedding and clothing from epidemic areas to Native Americans. Urban legend? I will look for refs.
PhysioProf @ 24
It is, yes. Having some trouble with our servers.
marymccurnin @ 23
http://www.somsd.k12.nj.us/~ch…..allpox.htm
damn,your a good author Ian.
tw3k @ 30
Digg, tw3k!
My favoritest comickal book of all time has gotta be Love & Rockets. I first read it during the various wars that the US was sponsoring in Central America. It wasn’t political, but I appreciated it because it opened up a whole new side of Latin Americans that I hadn’t seen from my vantage point as a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant American. It added a crucial depth of humanity to the news and introduced a sympathy I might have found anyway, but which I found very worthwhile.
Wasn’t it the PILGRIMS? The puritans as I understand it was another much larger group who retained membership in the Church of England-
burnspbesq @ 19
Actually, the process is quite simple (owing to the ability of the smallpox virus to go into a dormant state when it does not have a host). All you have to do to become infected is to come in contact with items with which the sick person has been in sustained contact. Blankets, bedding, and clothing generally are the most infectious.
The stories refer to deliberately distributing smallpox infested blankets to the Indians. this is in fact something of an urban myth (at least that it was anything like common). There are only two historically documented cases, both in the colonial period. The first involved the Dutch at Ft. Orange (modern Albany, NY) and the Mohicans (also still living in eastern New York) in the early 1600s. The second involves a dispatch by Gen. William Amherst, British commander in the northern colonies, authorizing the distribution of small pox blankets to the Indians in the Midwest (can’t remember off the top of my head whether it was Ft. Pitt or Ft. Detroit) during the French and Indian War of the 1750s. In the latter case, there is no documentation that this was ever actually carried out.
In general the Europeans and Americans did not need to engage in such direct biological warfare, since inadvertent infection was so effective. It is important to remember that the colonists were a pretty disease ridden and pestilential group. Indeed, most of the early colonies either were completely or largely destroyed by the very same diseases which would decimate the Indian populations. Population reductions (mostly from inadvertently introduced diseases) in the eastern US are currently estimated at about 90-95% in the first century and a half after contact (1539-1700). The Indian populations never fully recovered from that blow. By 1900, the Indian population in the US had dropped from an estimated precontact population of 5-7 million to 250,000. They have rebounded significantly since then.
Mahalo, LS! Here’s an excellent snippet…
Trent’s entry for May 24, 1763, includes the following statement:
… we gave them two Blankets and an Handkerchief out of the Small Pox Hospital. I hope it will have the desired effect.
Scarecrow @ 17
I wonder about that…I was listening to some physics story the other day and realized that my education was hopelessly out of date, that science has advanced many decades since I’ve really studied it, and I’m curious about how history is taught these days. We sort of learned “patriotism” until we got a rather weak brand of history in civics class — not much true “history” until college. Is it still the same today? With people fighting about “prayer in the classroom” I can’t imagine it’s advanced much.
To rwcole at 32: Yes, the Pilgrims were Puritans. One and the same group, but the Pilgrims left England and settled in the New World.
newtonusr @ 31
my digg login is on my other rig :’(
I’ll digg it l8r ;)
Exquisite post. Too beautiful even for comment.
Jane Hamsher @ 35
As someone who has been engaged in this battle for more than 20 years, I can tell you that it is still hard to get more than cursory mention of non-whites in US history classes and Indians still generally only rate a few pages high school textbooks. To give you an example, the University of Montana, in a state with the fifth largest percentage of Indians, has no one in the history department who specializes in Indian history.
Rich @ 37
The biggest “joke” with the Puritans is that they were victims of religious intolerance.
rwcole @ 33
Actually, they were never accepted by the Church of England, similarly, they left Holland(where it was started) to go to England, then, after being persecuted there, they headed to America… The principal cause for the persecution was their strict adherence to their views…
Wow. Beautiful post. I’d add more to the discussion, but that’s all I got at the moment. . . Wow.
Black Elk – Oglala Sioux
But then…
Black Elk – Oglala Sioux
Our continuous demands choke our spirits. Our system of knowing is corrupt. The gift of life has been squandered and the tears of the world will drown us. If there is to be a future, it must be discontinuous from the past.
Fat chance.
neokneme @ 43
Hate to tell you, but “Black Elk Speaks”, which I have used in classes before, is a highly romanticized account and Neihart made up that passage (something he admitted in later life). Black Elk actually remained a powerful and optimistic man until his death. He actually converted to Catholocism in about 1905 and spent much of his later life as a lay catechist and prominent figure on the reservation and in the church there. He was also a successful rancher.
Jane Hamsher @ 36
Elementary textbooks are still very one-sided and present Americans as heroes and always on the side of right. Much depends upon the teacher. When I was teaching 5th grade social studies, I spent the entire first quarter on pre-Columbian civilizations in North America. My neighbor teacher skipped those standards and just talked about the native people as the explorers came into contact with them. Thankfully, she has since retired.
DrDick @ 40
Can’t speak to US history. In my youth (things may have changed) I got a full year (grade 5, I believe) of Indian history and culture. It was fairly watered down in terms of what really happened to them, but you could tell. I also made myself some pemican by getting my Dad, a hunter, to give me some venison and fat. In general Canada was kinder to the western tribes that the US (don’t kill your customers, the Quebecois were pretty decent to the local Indians (comparatively, and same thing, they were needed for the fur trade), but the east coast indians were treated horribly.
I would never want to be a Puritan. I am glad I am not! But I can still be thankful for other stuff and spend part of the weekend with friends and eating good food.
Kinda, sorta on topic
The lesson
Gotta run, see ya
I like that John in Sac!
Good evening dear friends.
SnarKassandra @ 48
Heh, you’d be stifled by their intolerant views, you should read Hawthorne’s ‘Scarlet Letter’ for a primer on Puritanical mannerisms…
TexBetsy @ 51
howdy, Ma’am! How’re ya feeling today?
Could it be that the puritans were the fundies of the past?
Ian Welsh @ 46
The Canadian federal government was overall more humane than the US gevernment, but provinvial governments, particularly in the western provinces (Saskatchewan, Alberta, and British Columbia), were every bit as bloody minded and racist as their US counterparts, though not as many Indian wars (mostly owing to the nature of the tribes).
Not good CT. Major pain for the past several days. But at least I got some sleep last night.
Black Elk actually remained a powerful and optimistic man until his death. He actually converted to Catholocism in about 1905 and spent much of his later life as a lay catechist and prominent figure on the reservation and in the church there. He was also a successful rancher.
Glad to hear that his experience was more than the fodder for a fascinating book. His memories of the horrific slaughters of his people by the US ARMY were no doubt painful. Were the ruthless massacres by Gatling gun also apocryphal?
marymccurnin @ 54
That’s what they said on the radio on Wednesday. But I don’t remember which show.
TexBetsy @ 55
I’m sorry to hear that. Have you met with the surgeon yet and did he have any encouraging news?
TexBetsy @ 56
Sorry to hear that Ma’am! 8-(
DrDick @ 59
I have a mtg Weds with the doc who’s doing the discogram. See the surgeon on Dec 4.
neokneme @ 56
That one probably refers to the very real ncident at Wounded Knee (which is recounted in the book) in the 1890s, sort of the My Lai of the Sioux Wars.
TexBetsy @ 61
In the meantime you have to grin and bear it, eh? 8-(
TexBetsy @ 60
Well, best wishes for encouraging news.
I am taking more meds than I like and just trying to be comfortable.
DrDick @ 62
The Arapaho also suffered a similar massacre… Sand Creek, I believe…
I saw a documentary about a power company (I think) that took over part of a reservation, installing barbed wire fences, separating families, etc. I think it ended up in a big lawsuit…the company started with a “P”, like Piedmont, or Piermont, I think. Anyone know what I’m blabbing about??? Anyway, it was in the 1960’s IIRC…not sure. Just an awful story.
We mostly learned about the tribes that lived in Texas, Mexico & Louisiana.
TexBetsy @ 65
Ouch!! I sure hope the meds help and you feel better.
CTuttle @ 66
Image what would be done in the name of Christianity in this country if others weren’t standing in the way. Democracy would be gone. Gays would be closeted. Women wouldn’t be able to get a mortgage. Look how far they did get. No stem cell research. No money for schools. A woman’s right to choose rendered useless by lack of services. etc. Gawd, I am scaring myself.
Could you see if you could get the link to the source article up and running? There are some things in it that don’t make sense but I would like to see the whole thing.
Also, there were important differences between the Pilgrims at Plymouth and the larger Puritan migration who settled at Massachusetts Bay. But they were both congregationalists so I am not sure that excommunication makes sense in either case.
ian, I am ashamed to say I didn’t know a stitch of this history and my heart is heavy
I will now forever morn on thanksgiving.
thanks for the lesson
Are Pilgrims and Puritans the same sect?
CTuttle @ 66
Actually it was the Cheyenne (may have been some Arapaho there as well, as the tribes were allies). Specifically, it was Black Kettle’s band, one of the most friendly toward the US. They were attacked again four years later by troops under a Col. Custer at the “Battle” of the Washita in sw Oklahoma. Both there and at the Sand Creek Massacre (Colorado State Militia under Col. Chivington), the camp consisted mostly of old men, women, and children.
There are plenty of genocidal episodes like this in US history, though actual genocide was never explicit, official US policy. They just weren’t too particular what happened to the Indians.
Call me Ishmael @ 71
Fixed it. The original site seems to have gone down, but I found someone else who had posted the entire article.
DrDick @ 62
I believe they were also used at Batoche.
LS @ 67
Are you refering to the Peabody Coal Company’s operations on the Navajo Nation? They have several open pit mine there and there has been some controversy over them on the reservation in recent years.
DrDick @ 74
and so we see as the saying goes, history is written by the victors…custer is regarded as some kind of hero after all
does this mean that bush will be regarded with the same fictional characterization?
there is very little justice
http://texbetsy.headonradionet…..nksgiving/
November 22, 2007 in Thanksgiving. 0 Comments Edit
Why We Shouldn’t Celebrate Thanksgiving
Sure Europeans beat up on Indians, African slaves, and each other. Today lenders beat up on sub prime borrowers, evict them from their homes. Why do we push and shove, seek to prove ourselves better than the rest, climb the social hierarchy by hook or by crook when all of us die? The suffering we inflict on our fellows is not only painful, it is pointless.
Call me Ishmael @ 71
Important differences? Plymouth is in the Mass. Bay area, basically, if there are differences it would be attributed to the Pastors differences, rather than fundamental differences. Say, Cotton Mather’s Hail and Brimstone sermons versus another Pastor’s preaching…
And there;s this:
Florida teacher chips away at Plymouth Rock Thanksgiving myth
SnarKassandra @ 48
I’ve eaten my fair sure of turkey’s on thanksgiving and enjoyed it as well.
urgh the reflext ’s
marymccurnin @ 54
Absolutely. Literally. One example: the anti-Catholicism of such Protestant fundamentalist organizations as Bob Jones University can be traced back to Puritan roots. A great resource, in my opinion, is The Reformation. It’s also highly readable.
SnarKassandra @ 68
Did they tell you that one of the primary reasons the Texas Rangers were formed was to drive out the Indians and suppress the Mexicans? Did a pretty good job at both. Only a couple of Indian groups left in Texas, both immigrants from elsewhere in the US. Alabama-Coushatta in the east and the Pueblo group on the Rio Grande in far southwest Texas.
DrDick @ 86
Yep. And also about pushing the comanches west and trying to kill all the apaches.
We don’t firebomb Tokyo(WWII) and we don’t hang African Americans and women got the right to vote. We made some progress.
Sandman @ 88
Uh, Dresden, Bremen…
SnarKassandra @ 87
Comanches and some of the Apaches wound up in Oklahoma, as did the Caddo (including the Original Tejas), Tonkawas, and the Wichita. Kiowa also had territory in Texas, as well as sw Oklahoma.
OT…
Another piece of the police state being fitted into place…
GREENPORT, N.Y.
…As the details of the Sept. 27 raid spread through this village, where about 17 percent of residents are Hispanic, some citizens began to protest the very premise of the operation — and the participation of local officers.
(snip)
Digby:
This was a raid to catch alleged gang members, but instead caught long term residents with no criminal history whatsoever. Look for more of this as the immigration debate ramps up. And keep your fingers crossed that the INS doesn’t accidentally decide that illegal immigrants are living in your house because they don’t need no stinking warrants.
link
Black Mesa and Peabody, etc., Hopi and Navajo:
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com…..ayed/print
The trail of tears ended in Oklahoma, and, prior to statehood it was simply noted on maps as Indian Territory…
LS @ 67
I think you’re talking about the Tuscaroras
this is the legal opinion, couldn’t find a recap of the sorry tale
Sandman @ 88
We don’t hang African Americans we just put them in prisons. Women can vote but is there a real candidate out there? Look what we are doing to the Iraqis. Is the United States really a life affirming place? Is the United States a moral place? Do we torture? I could go on but can’t stand it.
Elliott @ 94
Thanks. Actually, it is the Peabody/Hopi/Navajo story, that I just linked above. There exists a documentary about it.
Cassie -
There’s a pretty good book you might enjoy. It is about Chief Bowles and the Texas Cherokees (I think that is the title). He was a dissident Cherokee chief who moved to east Texas (at Sam Houston’s invitation) when the other Cherokees moved to Oklahoma. He was friends with Houston from when they both lived in Tennessee and supported the Texans during their revolution. His reward for being a good friend and ally? He and his people were run out of Texas right after they won the revolution.
DrDick @ 97
‘Moved’?
Dr Dick — how come it was so different in Mexico? Why did they marry the Indians instead of pushing them away?
“The most disgusting injustice perpetrated by Peabody came in 1974 when its desire for even more coal led to the forced relocation of over 12,000 Navajo Indians and roughly one hundred Hopi. In the early 1970s the Bechtel Corporation began building two major electrical plants in the Southwest. The coal to power the plants would be provided by Peabody, namely its two mines located on Black Mesa. The operation would make Black Mesa the largest strip mine in the U.S, something that Peabody’s voracious elites could not let slip through their fingers. For this nightmare to come true the people living near the strip mining operations would have to move. In order to pull off such a shady endeavor, Peabody and other players fabricated a Hopi and Navajo land dispute. John Boyden, a coal company lackey, went to Congress and introduced legislation to divide Black Mesa, giving 900,000 acres to residents on mostly Hopi territory. The legislation included the removal of individuals who had been displaced by the new agreement. Thus, 12,000 Navajos and roughly one hundred Hopis were forcefully relocated to Sanders, Arizona, which is home to the worst radioactive waste spill in North America. Since the relocation the displaced indigenous people have suffered from extremely high rates of suicide, poverty, cancer and birth defects. The United Nations in the late 1980s even described it as “the most flagrant violation of indigenous peoples’ rights in this hemisphere�?. It is sad to say that this act is all but surprising. It is yet another example of a racist, classist, and ecologically damaging corporate and government partnership to remove those who stand in the way of profit.”
http://www.stlimc.org/newswire…../index.php
Steve-AR @ 91
I have been spreading the shock doctrine youtube around as much as possible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..hp?t=92241
funny, when people see it the information seems intuitive
I point out that I am only inoculating them against an event that might happen in the near future
I am not comfortable the people in power will give that power back when the time comes
I think we need to inoculate as many as possible and spreading that youtube does the trick
marymccurnin @ 94
I am just saying we made some progress and we have to work hard to make more progress.
LS that is horrible! Can they leave?
Steve-AR @ 91
I have been spreading the shock doctrine youtube around as much as possible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..hp?t=92241
funny, when people see it the information seems intuitive
I point out that I am only inoculating them against an event that might happen in the near future
I am not comfortable the people in power will give that power back when the time comes
I think we need to inoculate as many as possible and spreading that youtube does the trick
Say goodbye 4th; hello police state:
WASHINGTON: Firefighters in major U.S. cities are being trained to take on a new role as lookouts for terrorism, raising concerns of eroding their standing as trusted American icons and infringing on people’s privacy.
Unlike police, firefighters and emergency medical personnel need no warrants to enter hundreds of thousands of homes and buildings each year, which puts them in position to spot behavior that could indicate terror activity or planning.
(snip)
When going to private residences, for example, they are told to be alert for a person who is hostile, uncooperative or expressing hate or discontent with the United States;
(snip)
“So we see things and observe things that may be useful to law enforcement,” he said. “We can walk into your house. We don’t need a search warrant.” If an ambulance team should show up at a house and see detailed maps of the district’s public transit system on the wall, that is something the EMS provider would pass along, he said.
(snip)
IHT
Say goodbye 4th; hello police state:
WASHINGTON: Firefighters in major U.S. cities are being trained to take on a new role as lookouts for terrorism, raising concerns of eroding their standing as trusted American icons and infringing on people’s privacy.
Unlike police, firefighters and emergency medical personnel need no warrants to enter hundreds of thousands of homes and buildings each year, which puts them in position to spot behavior that could indicate terror activity or planning.
(snip)
When going to private residences, for example, they are told to be alert for a person who is hostile, uncooperative or expressing hate or discontent with the United States;
(snip)
“So we see things and observe things that may be useful to law enforcement,” he said. “We can walk into your house. We don’t need a search warrant.” If an ambulance team should show up at a house and see detailed maps of the district’s public transit system on the wall, that is something the EMS provider would pass along, he said.
(snip)
IHT
SnarKassandra @ 102
I don’t know what’s going on with them now…:(
Steve AR, there is a county lady who comes to our house once a month and looks around to see if I have a bed and is there food in the fridge and toilet paper and enough clothes. Do you think she’s looking for bombs too?
Which is why it’s so disturbing to see an ad showing the people of Iran as scurrying insects. First dehumanize them, then the emotional obstacles to killing them are greatly diminished.
I know this is the history of the human race, but I also hope we are capable of evolving into something higher.
CTuttle @ 98
Actually several thousand did “voluntarily” move from about 1819-1830 (including Sequoia, inventor of the Cherokee syllabary). The vast majority were forcibly removed (at gun point) in the 1830s. About 1/4 of the Cherokees About 4,000 people) died in the process. The Cherokees are still pissed about it. The call Andrew Jackson Jikisini diwahli (devil Jackson). For what it’s worth, my son is Cherokee and his maternal grandparents were native speakers of the language (as are about 13,000 others in Oklahoma).
THE PURITANS
The most obvious difference between the Pilgrims and the Puritans is that the Puritans had no intention of breaking with the Anglican church. The Puritans were nonconformists as were the Pilgrims, both of which refusing to accept an authority beyond that of the revealed word. But where with the Pilgrims this had translated into something closer to an egalitarian mode, the “Puritans considered religion a very complex, subtle, and highly intellectual affair,” and its leaders thus were highly trained scholars, whose education tended to translate into positions that were often authoritarian. There was a built-in hierarchism in this sense, but one which mostly reflected the age: “Very few Englishmen had yet broached the notion that a lackey was as good as a lord, or that any Tom, Dick, or Harry…could understand the Sermon on the Mount as well as a Master of Arts from Oxford, Cambridge, or Harvard” (Miller, I: 4, 14). Of course, while the Puritan emphasis on scholarship did foster such class distinction, it nevertheless encouraged education among the whole of its group, and in fact demanded a level of learning and understanding in terms of salvation. Thomas Hooker stated in The Application of Redemption, “Its with an ignorant sinner in the midst of all means as with a sick man remaining in the Apothecaries shop, ful of choycest Medicines in the darkest night: …because he cannot see what he takes, and how to use them, he may kill himself or encrease his distempers, but never cure any disease” (qtd. in Miller, I: 13).
WIKI
OMG…this is from April, 2007:
http://www.ohchr.org/english/i…..People.pdf
perris @ 101
The next 11.5 months is going to be hellacious. Or maybe they think they have completed the job having gutted the country already.
wow, they are really using hitler’s play book
I really don’t think they intend on releasing tthe power they’ve amassed
spread to whoever you know
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..hp?t=92241
SnarKassandra @ 108
No..I think she is just making sure you haven’t done any bodily harm to you cousin. *g* I have an older sister and they can be really mean to younger males in the house.
egregious @ 109
That is what the Nazis did by portraying the Jewish people as rodents…sick, sick, sick…
marymccurnin @ 113
One more thing. Mary. The worlds biggest note-burning party.
perris @ 114
The only one they will “willingly” release from power is W, and they want to install Giuliani or better yet Thompson (easier to control)….
I hope I am just really paranoid….really. At least Australia ousted Howard, and he was a dick like W.
a must read, which c and l is linking to now
http://harpers.org/archive/2007/11/hbc-90001726
“the star chamber”…here’s a snippet…read beginning to end
how so close have we come to this…how so close?
Rwcole, “…the Puritans had no intention of breaking with the Anglican church.” True, they were persecuted into leaving…
LS @ 118
they cannot possibly win the popular election
and they know it
something is planned and it’s not the popular vote
they are planning an event to suspend elections or they know they can fix the count…imho
SnarKassandra @ 99
It really reflects differences in colonial policies between Spain and Britain, not any moral differences. Both groups could be and were frightfully bloody minded (and handed) when they wanted to be. The British were primarily interested in two things: cheap raw materials for the growing industrial revolution (cotton, indigo, tobacco, sugar, etc.) and a place to dump its growing surplus population (itself an artifact of the enclosure laws, which dispossessed thousands of peasant farmers so the feudal landlords could run sheep to supply the woolen mills). Indians were superfluous and a hindrance to both plans. The Spanish in contrast established a system which depended on the exploitation of Indian labor to make the colonists (and the Spanish monarch) rich. They needed the Indians (or else they would have had to actually work themselves). There is also the fact that there were almost no Spanish women in the Americas for the first century after colonization. Spanish colonial law, however, explicitly prohibited intermarriage, so it was less “intermarried”, than interbred. Some of the Spanish fathers were at least somewhat concerned with their mixed-race children (though not enough to get them made legally Spanish), to take care of them and to pass laws granting Mestizos special privileges not available to Indians.
SnarKassandra @ 108
Likely not, but that is a very interesting question. Certainly, if the powers-that-be wanted to, the potential is there.
perris @ 122
I hear you.
LS @ 100
The largest open pit uranium mine in the US is on Indian land (Laguna IIRC) and there are several of those on the Navajo Reservation as well. Kerr-McGee, which operated most of these mine, willfully and knowingly exposed the largely Navajo miners to dangerously high levels of radiation in the mines and was negligent in their treatment of mine tailings, contaminating ground water and streams. That area of the reservation has one of the highest rates for birth defects and cancer in the world.
SnarKassandra @ 108
Illegal aliens probably. Too many suspicious brown skinned folks living there, you know.
DrDick @ 128
It is so heartbreaking.
DrDick @ 127
Re: Uranium
Lets elect a President who puts some money in the SuperFund.
What the hell is wrong with these people!!! It is so endless…
LS @ 130
It is so American.
Dr D, that’s not nice!
There exists pure, unadulterated evil in the human race.
It is “mindblogging”..
LS @ 132
I hate to say it, but it is inherent in the system. Any system, like capitalism, which is grounded in greed is inherently evil. Such evil consequences are ultimately unavoidable so long as the primary concern and motivation is personal profit.
SnarKassandra @ 135
Sounded like snark to me.
SnarKassandra @ 134
Another feeble attempt at humor, I am afraid. Just riffing on the Republican obsession with brown people. I for one like them and get really pissed off about this stuff. Remember, my son is one.
Sandman @ 132
Independent Lens had an excellent expose on Pickr Oklahoma, and the fact they’ve been a Superfund site for twenty plus years and very little progress has been achieved… The Skat piles still are there and people are still dying from exotic cancers…
SnarKassandra @ 132
Cassie – I am certain you know what was intended.
:-)
OK, I won’t be offended.
DrDick @ 139
Like I said yesterday, something to this effect…and all of the wives of the perpetrators of the racism, spend time in tanning booths to resemble those they love to hate…
LS @ 143
Melanoma, anyone? ;-)
CTuttle @ 139
That is the Tar Creek site (the town is Picher BTW) and it is also Indian country (mostly Quapaw, aka Arkansaw). remnants of lead and zinc mines that were all over ne Oklahoma when I was growing up. Lots of super nasty heavy metals there.
egregious @ 109
Yes, what you’re referring to is scapegoating and it is unfortunately universal. An incisive study of scapegoating within families “black sheep” and within the collective is Jungian analyst, Sylvia Brinton Perera’s “The Scapegoat Complex.”
When I think of Iran I think of Hafiz, a favorite poet, and Shams of Tabriz, the spiritual master of Rumi.
Jane is upstairs.
The prejudice also arises from the invocation of fear…not only greed. Propaganda. Subtle and not so subtle. Lately, it is becoming not so subtle…perhaps that is a good thing in the long run…perhaps it is a desensitization…I’m guessing it is the latter in the minds of those spreading the fear…but I think it is the first, in the really infinite picture of the advancement of consciousness. There are a lot more loving people on earth, than there are haters…I believe that, because I think that is our natural state. The hatred is learned.
new thread:
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..f-torture/
DrDick @ 34
It was Ft. Pitt, which was under siege by Chief Pontiac in 1763, during the French-Indian Wars. The discussion as to whether this should occur was between Col. Bouquet and British General Amherst. These are, curiously, only in footnotes to the actual letters (perhaps so they could be excised without they body of the letter appearing suspicious?)
There is historical documentation that Fort Pitt was beset by smallpox, and had established a smallpox quarantine ward. As to whether it was done we have the May 24, 1763 Journal of Major Trent, head of Ft. Pitt’s militia, who states
“… we gave them two Blankets and an Handkerchief out of the Small Pox Hospital. I hope it will have the desired effect.”
There was subsequent reports that smallpox, had, in fact, spread widely in the Native populations surrounding Fort Pitt. Whether this was due to the actual use of the blankets, or due to other factors, is not clear. But there can be little doubt that there was the intent and actual program to infect the native population with smallpox.
Here is a site with links to the actual letters.
http://www.nativeweb.org/pages….._jeff.html
Some have doubted that there was the knowledge of how smallpox was transmitted in 1763. But by that time it was widely known amongst educated individuals that “inoculation” or contact with disease carrying individuals or clothing was a vector in disease transmission. In fact, knowledge of vaccination was already in it’s fundamental stages, with experiments taking smallpox from the pustule of an ill individual in small doses being used in Europe and America. Cotton Mather was actually involved in promoting such methods, although he, and the doctor who implemented it (on his own children) were nearly was driven from Boston as warlocks for doing so.
LS @ 133
Forgive me for self advertising, but on my website I suggest a theory I call “Collective Image Psychology”. It extrapolates “Self Image Psychology” to explain national behaviors. It sees our perception of “human nature” as the collective image. It boils down to a claim we become the species we think we are. Our entrepreneurs (Ayn Rand types) are true haters of humanity. In the process of raising themselves up, they bring everyone down, including themselves. Polluters pollute the world they live in, a truly insane undertaking. It is a utopian theory which holds that like individuals who reinvent themselves, we, collectively, can reinvent the species, but it means rejecting history, a fairly neat trick. If any of this interests you, click on my name and visit the site.
That’s a problem with utopia. One asshole screws it up for everyone.
We’ve got two right now. Bush and Cheney!
hard not to be bitter about what happened between us. my relatives helped lewis and clark when they attempted to explore the northwest, but as usual, it was an ill-conceived mission by the new worlders and they would have starved to death if it were not for my great great great great-grandmother helping to keep them alive and sending them on their way, never knowing and i’m sure never concerned that her act of kindness ensured our destruction. we were taught to giveaway, those new worlders were taught to take, what else could have happened?
TexBetsy @ 65
Take care, Betsy. Harvey sends his best.
Rich @ 37
Actually Pilgrims were Puritans (but only in the broad terminology of being separatists), but not all Puritans were Pilgrims. Both groups settled in the New World. The original group “the Pilgrims” at Plymouth. The later, more theological and ideologically centered Puritans created the Massachusetts Bay Colony at Boston.
A good primer of the differences and similarities can be found here.
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~ca…..rmain.html
Essentially neither the Pilgrims nor colonizing Puritans were not Anglicans, since, at that time, the church was hard in the hands of King James IV and his son Charles I. One Pilgrim group escaped James’ religious persecutions by establishing themselves at Leiden, in Holland…where they actually had complete religious freedom but had difficulties finding employment for many in their congregation. In addition, some members were straying to other Calvinist denominations, and the fact that the Pilgrim’s, with poor Dutch language skills and similar sects in competition, were unable to successfully prosleytize, posed problems.
So essentially, they left the Netherlands, not due to religious prosecution, but because they were economic refugees and feared cultural assimilation with the Dutch churches.
The Pilgrims never actually asserted independence from the King, acknowledging his sovereignity over them. The Mayflower Compact meant only to provide them with a vehicle for self-governance (and to exclude from power “strangers” who also had sailed with them). It also was a rebuff to any efforts by the investors to regain control over their affairs (as they had accidently established themselves beyond the Virginia Colony).
Most of the Puritans were the product of religious persecution. Unlike the Pilgrims, who had to flee surrepticiously from England, most of the Puritans were encouraged to depart by Charles. Early on he allowed them local self-government, but later asserted control by establishing a Governor. The Puritans in England soon shifted from being Separatists to actually becoming the dominant religious faction in England after Charles I recalled Parliment in 1641, after it had been suspended for 11 years. The Puritans actually gained control of the Anglican church with the rise of Charles Cromwell to power in the 1640’s. For a time they actually controlled England through the use of the Roundhead “New Model Army”.
Puritan immigration to the Massuchusetts colony fell off during this phase.
http://enrichmentjournal.ag.or…..nsides.cfm
CTuttle @ 42
Actually the Pilgrims were non-Conformists in England and found refuge in Holland. They didn’t “start” there. They struggled in Holland, both economically and in terms of being able to maintain and spread their particular faith amongst the already well established Dutch Calvinist and Lutheran churches. So they sought a new place to isolate temselves from such outside influences.
They returned to England only to pick up members that had failed to escape to Holland.
Holland allowed them religious freedom, but they weren’t able to compete in that “free-market” environment…especially in Leiden where Theology and Scientific intellectualism was strong.
Ironically the Puritans showed just how much they beieved in “religious freedom” when Cromwell took over England, and of course, they were not averse to expelling and even executing those whose religious views were at variance with their own.
pre-amerikkkan @ 150
On the other hand Lewis and Clark brought large stocks of smallpox vaccine and inoculated those tribal groups they encountered. It turns out that these areas were some of the few in the US that were not beset by the epidemic scourge of smallpox in the immediate periods that followed.
cinnamonape @ 154
kindness was the reason that the old lady prevented her people from outright killing them. once a white man was kind to her and she remembered it and spared the lives of those “hairy ghosts” aka lewis and clark. they left a child as well. so there is redemption, eh?
we’ll see what happens – another possibility is that Hillary’s MICFiC (military-industrial-congressional-financial complex) credentials are strong enough that she will be allowed to become President – she is a member in good standing of the War Party, and although she now says she wants to “bring our troops home”, she has already explained that she really means “bring our COMBAT troops home” which really means “continue the occupation indefinitely”
I guess it would be better to go through the motions and “elect” Hillary, rather than have the election cancelled – but I wonder if it’s not like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic – it has no effect on the ship’s speed or direction
But at least we aren’t locked in our cabins yet – there’s still hope that we might do something that matters, if we can just think of what that might be
LS @ 124
Ernest Thomas Setton = Ernest Thompson Seton
DrDick @ 126
One more good reason to change our immigration policy…to prevent them from having an excuse for violating our privacy.
CTuttle @ 42
Absolutely correct. They also ended up in Western Michigan via the Netherlands. Erik Prince of Blackwater and Dick DeVos of Amway are current inheritors of the faith. Dutch Reform. Their combined conservative/religious movement is much more sophisticated and insidious than the Pat Robertson/Jerry Falwell variety. Convicted felon Chuck Colson(sp?) and his prison ministry is tied in with these hombres too.
Gosh, the part of my blood that is from Europeans feels guilt and revulsion. The part that is Native American just wishes white people would stop using Native Americans as a whip to flog themselves.
GG @ 160
Hello GG.
EPU territory, well and truly.
I’d read about the genocide in Tasmania and ended up there in 1974. Finding a Tasmanian Aboriginal Union and thinking, Eh?
It only took 60some years to discover I had some Native American background myself.
A too broad brush tars the innocent as well as the guilty. Nothing exists save ME. A murderer kills someone the suicide kills everything. Be happy when I die and all will be happy.
This is late catch-up, so perhaps no one will see this. An otherwise excellent top post is ruined, for me, by an initial confusion in Ian’s top post between the Pilgrims and the Puritans. The Pilgrims of the Mayflower were a historically different group than the Puritans. Per Wiki,
But you’re in good company. Nathaniel Philbrick in his otherwise excellent book on the Mayflower makes the same mistake.
Bob in HI
CTuttle @ 81
Actually, they were separate colonies originally and they had a different view of the English Church. Cottton Mather wasn’t till much later in the 17th century and the whole religious culture had changed in important ways by then. Pilgrims wanted to separate entirely from the English Church, Puritans wanted to start an internal reformation. I know that this may not be important for the particular issues of Thanksgiving but it was a very important point for them.
On the original post I would be really interested in hearing about the “excommunication” aspects that the post talks about. One thing that the Puritans were quite concerned with was that church and state be institutionally separate so I am not sure how someone would be excommunicated for attitudes towards either Native societies or property, Excommunication would be for heresy (and probably would not have been called excommunication anyway)
taters @ 159
Although the Pilgrims went to Holland they were English originally. I think that Dutch reformed is a different genealogy.