I’m trying to figure out the process here. Somebody calls up Joe Klein and tells him the storyline that the administration is floating about the FISA bill — completely and utterly wrong, but somehow in those whispered tones of hush-hush top-secret information confidentially imparted, Klein thinks it’s all true. Remember the Klein comment that not long ago won the FDL contest for the stupidest thing he ever said (a heated competition if ever there was one):
“People like me who favor this [NSA wiretapping] program don’t yet know enough about it yet. Those opposed to it know even less — and certainly less than I do.”
Which loosely translated seems to mean — I only know what I’m told, which isn’t much, but it’s more than you know, so just trust me. I don’t now how a thinking person would trust someone so openly credulous — Klein is possessed of a charmless naivite which led to the almost painful yet oh-so-delightful-to-watch shredding he got from Glenn Greenwald today. He should, however, be barred from ever writing about FISA again. (I spoke with Glenn earlier, and we agreed that Joe would only make it worse by responding, which he did, in a “Glenn who?” piece that’s as compulsive as it is hapless).
I can only conclude that people like Klein got along for so very long by churning out nonsense that nobody challenged and now they can’t come to terms with the fact that they are being fed bullshit by people with an agenda, even when they’re called on it. The twisted logic and rationalizations he has to indulge in to justify his position are almost sad.
Wired’s Ryan Singel:
Klein can’t even figure out that the House bill that passed last week IS the House Intelligence Committee’s bill, not some Democratic substitute masterminded by Pelosi.
What the Administration wants (and which Congress gave them this summer) is the power to order Hotmail or Verizon to turn over ALL communications that involve one person outside the United States, without ever seeing a judge.
The whole debate is about how the NSA wiretaps INSIDE the United States, but Klein can’t grasp that simple concept. That makes it impossible for him to also understand that there are good reasons to be wary of giving intelligence agencies free access to the nation’s communication infrastructure.
It was Charles P. Pierce who wrote the canonical Joe Klein piece not long ago. It’s worth resurrecting now, if only for his own good:
Joe Klein and the rest of the cats ‘n kittens in the political press corps, are more charming in their delightful naïveté. George Bush is a cowboy! Condi Rice is a genius! Dick Cheney has a soul to search!
Why aren’t any of these people ever at my poker table?
For the love of God stop him, Time Magazine. Before he writes again.
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Jane!
Hiya Jane!
Evening Jane.
Hail, Muse jane!
Stop picking on me!!!!!!!
;-)
Andy Warhol: A celebrity is someone who’s famous for being famous.
Time: A columnist is someone who’s published because he’s published.
” I only know what I’m told, which isn’t much, but it’s more than you know, so just trust me.” Isn’t that the MSM’s rationale and/or MO, period?
But at least TIME didn’t want karl rove.
Jane!!!!
I want to know how Klein’s came down with such a case of the stupids. Is he really dumber than the mouth breathers at Red State? Is he suffering a severe case of Stockholm Syndrome?
SnarKassandra @ 8
Considering that Time still has Bill “William the Bloody” Kristol, that’s not saying much. Time has become like a cancerous growth that needs to be taken care of.
Would I be correct in saying that Jokeline got tagged as being a Democrat because he was a fan of Bill Clinton and his particular brand of centrism? And that, ever since, he’s somehow been regarded as being a Democrat?
I’ll forgo, for now, any question as to how or why he became the teevee and MSM token Democratic spokesperson.
Embarrassing.
Thwack! Bam ! Biff! Powee!
No really Jane, you shouldn’t hold back like that. Tell us what you REALLY think.
*g*
I noticed that Joke was noticably absent in response to all the posts at his blog where absolutely no one could find any sympathy for his inept and ludicrous re-write of his original malapropisms.
Great fun was had by all. Such a maroon. LOL!
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 10
Gawd…I used to like Time…about 35 years ago…’tis so sad and maddening.
Reidgnation of HUD Secy the Wednesday before Thanksgiving.
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004760.php
Fortunately for us, for all of the swill merchants such as Joe Klein, we have people like:
link..
Alabama’s R power couple, the Canarys, get more scrutiny.
http://www.harpers.org/archive…..c-90001711
Jane writes:
Who trusts him? Use him to spread propaganda or a particular meme but trust? Not happenin’.
But you already know this.
jayt @ 11
Or that he was next in line after Monica.
Bye y’all! I will see you on Friday or Saturday.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Help hungry people if you have more than you need.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 10
SnarKassandra @ 21
Safe travel and Happy Thanksgiving.
“People like me who favor this [NSA wiretapping] program don’t yet know enough about it yet. Those opposed to it know even less — and certainly less than I do.” ~ Joe Klein
Bah hahahahahahahaha!
*continued screaming laughter*
Bah hahahahahahahaha!
*choking*
*cough*
*chest heaving from massive air intake*
Bah hahahahahahahaha!
Okay. I need some water now.
eCAHNomics @ 16
Another one bites the dust…geez…these people have no values or ethics at all. It is astounding.
Mr Klein is just another corporate whore for the Bush traitors who is now finally twisting slowing in the recent light breezes of some truth and honesty…
Do you think wonkette played him like a two dollar fiddle? *s*
Steve-AR @ 17
Jane,
You’re right, as usual, but you’re failing to grasp one thing: Joe Klein has name recognition, and to the MSM, name recognition is pure gold.
Of course, name recognition can go sour, as happened to Dan Quayle after Lloyd Bentson’s take-down (Dan-o helped his skid into oblivion with several other high profile demonstrations of haplessness.) But somehow or other, being caught saying stupid things in public doesn’t do as much damage to pundits as it does to politicians (Ed Muskie and Howard Dean come to mind). Perhaps we’ve come to expect stupid things from pundits, while we keep on hoping for better things from our politicians.
I’m having some difficulty remembering the name of any pundit who suffered from foot in mouth disease. Maybe others can remind me, so that I can have some hope regarding Joe Klein.
Bob in HI
I skimmed this Klein’s post and article) – I’m supposed to be getting up from the computer and doing things to get ready for T’giving. I don’t understand his reasoning (?), but don’t really want to read it carefully enough to try.
But can someone point me to where the “Glenn who” response is? Must have missed in my haste to get away (from Swampland).
Evening Jane.
Is there any way to know how much a person has money invested in the military industries that profit from this fiasco of a war???
What I’d give to have accurate numbers on how much operatives, like Klein and Novak and Limbaugh, have got stashed away there.
Quebecois @ 31
And DiFi!
Heh. KO showed Romney shaking hands from behind a barbed wire fence….great image.
BTW, I watched that police taser incident on Digby…Jeebus…these local guys think that the Patriot Act has given them carte blanche…oh, yeah, some of them train with Blackwater.
Boneheads.
What happenened to compassion and humanity????
Quebecois @ 31
Not unless they release their tax returns or other financial records as would be the case sometimes with public office holders.
Private citizens? Not gonna see ‘em.
hey guys, go and read the comments on joke lines article, man, inteligent, insightfull and totally embarrassing to joe
too good to miss
http://www.time-blog.com/swamp…..mn_22.html
LS @ 33
This has been going on waaaaaaaay before the Patriot Act. We just didn’t have videos and youtube as documentation..
OT..The Taliban is alive and well in Texas.
(snip)
The androgynous masculinization of the modern woman, through the donning of pants, suits, uncovered shoulders and unveiled hair, has in a sense led to the slow whorification of ladyhood. In discarding feminine dress, women seem to have symbolically discarded femininity and modesty (the virtues of women) in favor of sexual virility, promiscuity and immodesty (the vices of men). The ideal form of a true lady is a constant, immutable aspect of humanity, and this strange new development can only represent a bizarre aberration of a perverse and ignoble culture. Dresses are an essential part of any true lady’s attire, and they should be worn.
link
I think this is a serious offer. You can get paid money to Blog for Hillary. It seems creepy to me.
http://voteforhillaryonline.bl…..ments.html
SnarKassandra @ 8
Good point. I guess everyone has limits.
Frank33 @ 38
A dollar per positive comment? The price of shilling has just been devalued, I guess.
Hillary is the best junior senator from New York who’s related to a former president to run for president since Robert Kennedy!
Where’s my dollar?
TIME was I saw EMIT
cleter @ 41
You hit all the notes there…
I believe I may have just found the name for my next album.
T Boone Pickens WPITW for reneging on his offer of $1M to anyone who could prove just one piece of the Swift Boats cr*p wrong then putting all the extra conditions on Kerry after being called out.
Steve-AR @ 37
AH! My knight in shining armour, I have just the thingie
for you. (Warming! Nasty and Graphic!)
Steve-AR @ 37
Link doesn’t work.
Jane Hamsher @ 39
And the Court Jester position was already taken.
Frank33 @ 38
Hil. Astroturfing. How utterly repugnant.
Mad Dogs @ 48
does roves columns allow for comments?
oh man that would be incredible, I doubt he’d allow it
but then again, he fancies himself quite the intellect, unlike cheney who knows he’s a moron and won’t be seen near a debate, rove actually believes he has some brains so I wouldn’t be surprised if he gives comments a go
does he?
Mad Dogs @ 34.
Thanks.
perris @ 35
Damn! Joe gets lambasted… Rightly so…
Eureka Springs @ 47
linl
Try this..While I was cleaning the kitchen, I was thinking about the above piece..there is a seriously disturbed man on the UT campus.
Mad Dogs @ 14
OMG … Joke Line is being sledged over there … the only way it could get worse is if bmaz shows up …
I guess I will sell out for my dollar also.
CTuttle @ 52
Hey Dood !
Steve at 37, bum link.
Dammit, dammit, dammit.
I just finished writing my Late Nite post on this very topic. Back to the drawing board!
D’oh! Jane Digby’d me.
Petrocelli @ 56
Aloha! I’m having serious computer issues today… :-(
Loo Hoo. @ 57
Try @ 53
TRex @ 58
Awwwwww
CTuttle @ 59
Didja get one o’ them there Vy- russes ?!! *g*
dakine01 @ 45
Link?
I take it someone, such as the man in question himself, accomplished the challenge?
There will be a circle in Hell especially reserved for the main stream media personalities of the past 15 years.
Frank33 @ 38
New post upstairs
dakine01 @ 45
So PIckens is not just a jerk who makes things up about men who have served their country but he is a liar, too.
Ooh ooh, here’s my favorite part:
Yes, I know my own personal experience supports those selfsame immutable truths, because I know it was The Sweetie’s passivity and domesticity that most attracted me. Of course she has that pesky will, and that troublesome genius intellect… but then again nobody’s perfect.
TRex @ 58
Just like a Thanksgiving dinner, there’s always more room for comedy.
tejanarusa @ 63
This from today’s Boston Globe pretty much covers all the back and forth with Picken’s adding more conditions and changing the rules from the initial challenge he laid out.
And one day, someone from HUD will have to explain some of the racism/corruption that have played out in the ravages of New Orleans and its public housing since the disasters brought on by the Corps of Engineers. (No, Katrina did not wreck NO)
OK, now I am really steamed. First you cruelly say that you got to talk to Glenn, who I would just be happy to be in the same room with hoping to hear the vocalization of his razor sharp intellect, and then you say that Joe Klein wrote a negative piece about him.
Has anybody seen Joe Klein? He is almost as disgusting looking as am I. Where Glenn is a stunning package for his probing and articulate logic. I have a copy of the delightful caricature of his on my bed-stand.
I am sorry, I am going to have to lay down for a while. This is all just too much. You get to talk to Glenn? Just imagine – I certainly will.
LS @ 25
Just plain chicken-shit. Now that it’s seriously hitting the fan, who’re they going to bring in? And who are they going to blame?
What could possibly go wrong with educating folks to think house equity is a perfect substitute for savings and re-fis are how to tap it if you need to consume more and your credit card is maxed..
Probably still pissed the old folks were obstinate and didn’t let em have a fair shot at the ss money too. That would have taken care of *all* the non-elite assets. Got thrown off-schedule on that one, but not for lack of trying.
The Framing of Bilal Hussein
This story shows how the US Military is suppressing the Press in its coverage of events in Iraq by jailing reporters and photographers on contrived charges…well actually no charges at all…since they fail to apply habeas corpus.
Accusations against an Associated Press photographer Bilal Hussein took part in insurgent activities or bomb-making are false or meaningless, according to an intensive AP investigation of the case made public Wednesday. Hussein has been detained for 19 months in Iraq by the US Military. The AP Internal investigation by former Federal Prosecutor Paul Gardephe was given to the military in June.
Some highlights of the AP Investigation:
~ Hussein was last interrogated in May 2006 (18 months ago), but new claims added and others dropped.
~ Despite military interrogators claims that Husseins photographs show close collusion and access to insurgents the actual body of evidence shows otherwise. “There is no evidence — in nearly a thousand photographs taken over the 20-month period — that his activities ever strayed from those of a legitimate journalist.”
The Pentagon has variously claimed Hussein offered to provide false identification to a sniper seeking to evade U.S.-led forces, that Hussain had bomb-making materials, and took photos synchronized with insurgent attacks.
The report shows the overwhelming majority of Hussein’s photographs were of events readily visible to any passers-by: bombed-out structures, injured Iraqi civilians and funerals. Gardephe reviewed nearly 1,000 photo images submitted to AP during his 20-month career. Only 420 were ever distributed. Fewer than 10 percent show either known or possible insurgents, and none of those are indicative of any special access.
~ Not a single photographs showed synchronization with a bombing or other attack, instead showing the aftermath of attacks in areas he was covering.
~ No photos indicate Hussein was ever informed of insurgent acts beforehand.
~ His only series of photographs of insurgents in combat were taken from a concealed position inside a nearby furniture store. The insurgents do not show any indication that they were aware of Hussein. There is no “posing” or hand signals toward him. Outtakes indicate that Hussein was making an effort to remain concealed to them. These photos were taken in Fallujah on Nov. 8, 2004, at the peak of some of the most intense fighting. Many photographers and reporters were in the same area. The photos were part of a Pulitzer Prize-winning submission by the AP.
~ Claims that Hussein was supportive of the insurgents are belied by his submission of photos of
– the bodies of 19 fisherman murdered by insurgents
-a Red Crescent ambulance struck by insurgent mortars
-a family weeping over the body of an Iraqi soldier killed by insurgents
– civilians injured by suicide car bomb attacks.
~Gardephe found no evidence that Hussein provided false identification and discovered false IDs are readily available from numerous sources, which are widely used to conceal Iraqi’s religious affiliation from militias.
~ Rather than being involved in the kidnap of two Arab journalists in March 2006, Hussein brought the two men to safety, and only then at the request of another journalist called him about their release. Both journalists “emphatically stated that Hussein was not involved in their kidnapping and that he in fact brought them to safety.” Neither had been contacted by the U.S. military.
~The military asserted explosive residue was on Hussein at the time of his arrest. But given that Hussein had been walking back from a bakery at the time of a nearby explosion this would not be unusual. In addition, Hussein’s work clothing likely contained much residue from his coverage of areas where bombs had exploded.
~One of Hussein’s brothers has been “arrested” three times but quickly released each time. The U.S. military asserts another brother is involved in an insurgent group outside of Iraq. In fact, he fled Iraq after threats by insurgents after he joined a pro-coalition police force.
~The report contains evidence that the military manufactured false evidence. Hussein, after being arrested was then taken to a locked and abandoned electrician’s shop on the ground floor, the military kicked the doors open, and Hussein was photographed next to equipment and broken appliances. This appears to be the evidence that Hussein possessed bomb-making equipment.
Interrogators repeatedly alluded to macabre photos taken shortly before his arrest showing Iraqi children playing with the dismembered leg of an injured U.S. or Iraqi soldier. The interrogator told Hussein “Do you know what would happen if these photos were shown in the U.S.? There would be huge demonstrations and we would have to leave Iraq. … Your photos present a threat to us.” None of those photographs were ever published by the AP.
Steve-AR @ 37
Next they’ll be asking for female circumcision because no lady was meant to enjoy sex. (Female circumcision is reported to be still practiced in some parts of the middle east–I believe Sudan and maybe Saudi Arabia.)
LS @ 25
Do you mean by “ethics” the fact that they are violating Mr. Presidents “if you don’t resign by September 1st, you have to stay on until the bitter end” statement? Where’s the blind loyalty he expects of his minions and myrmidons?
Ann in AZ-
It’s much more widespread than that, although there has been some progress in legally banning it in the last 2 decades. Nonetheless, tradition dies hard in village and rural cultures, and the practice continues in many African countries. It was common in Egypt in our lifetime; not sure about today.
The worst part? There are some immigrant communities in this very country where it is practiced, very much under the radar. It has occasionally come to light if a mother or prospective victim protests. No links, all off the top of my head, but can surely find some if you like.
Steve-AR @ 53
I wonder if it was parody? A sort of Robert Sokal take down of misogyny? I noticed that it was written in a very “feminine” almost homosexual style. Graceful in a sort of 1920’s “Advice to Young Girls” manner. It had all the logical underpinnings of a Norman Bates explaining why modern women were just so much of a problem.
SnarKassandra @ 8
Maybe because they have Joe Klein!
cinnamonape @ 78
It’s gotta be snark. His first point:
“Dresses allow us to differentiate between the silhouettes of men and women on restroom signs.”
A. Pedant writes:
Please change
to either
or
Sincerely,
Anwaya Pedant
Shorter Joe Klein:
“I Know I’m stupid, but what am I?”
Back to the serious issue addressed so delightfully in Jane’s post.
FISA is prolly the most important offensive (in every way) of this administration.
It’s incrementalism. They normalize the unthinkable. Straight out of negotiation textbooks.
Joe is not an accidental idiot. Frightening he hasn’t been snickered out of town.
It’s really very simple. Joke Line isn’t a bad pundit, he is a very clever PR flack.
about the only thing imaginable worse than a craven dolt like bush is a hapless stooge such as klein that faithfully believes and repeats everything the bushes of the world spit out to them.
.
Alice @ 84
So it appears. But if that’s clever, it will require excavation to find the bar.
I know! I know! How about emailing Glenn’s column to every Dem Congresscritter and Senator and especially the Dem candidates. They need to know how we really really feel.
k @ 87
They already know and could care less. As far as they’re concerned, and they are no doubt familiar with Mr. Klein’s work, he’s doing a bang up job. After all, the busier we are banging our heads against Old Media’s wall, the less time we have to organize a truly effective resistance to their course of action.
Joe Klein reviewed a biography of Hunter S. Thompson in last Sunday’s Times Book Review and pompously asserted that “by 1974 Thompson had written his best stuff” or “his best stuff was behind him.” Or something to that effect.
I believe, in the psychiatric profession, they call this kind of statement “projecting.”
I only wish that the weasel-like Klein would have waited to make such a statement while Thompson was alive.
But then Klein has always been a coward. Wrote a book as “Anonymous” to save himself nasty questions about his motives.
FISA is indeed important, but the real concern is how do we protect our rights and way of life when our economy colapses? The two ominous events I have been awaiting for the last-year-and-half or longer are at hand. If China begin to sell dollars and OPEC moves to the Euro, intrusion into our personal lives by wiretapping is going to be the least of our worries. Our entire economy is based upon an illusion of wealth.
We do have all the resources and means to go it alone and rebuild a healthy economy but we have mothballed our production capitalism for the illusion of financial Capitalism. Other countries finance us so we will buy their goods. When they decide that propping up our tin soldier President and Government is not worth our consumption, our credit cards will be canceled.
Making money from the manipulation of money only creates money that looses its “value”, IT is a fools game. America is Disneyland and our treasury is a huge Casino. Real life is just around the corner. If you thought the willingness to throw our civil liberties out the window were bad after 911, you ain’t seen nothing yet.
To be prepared we have to envision and accept it. I see nothing that indicates that anyone has any idea what it will be like. Most people today do not understand that what Musharraf did in Pakistan is already planned here. Even to telling the Churches who cooperate (religious Right) to calm the people. They (the owners of what used to be the means of production) are ready, are you?
“You may be right I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you are looking for.”
I am having a hard time figuring out why people debate with Mr. Klein. After a while you would think everyone would figure out he is a propagandist and as such the truth is not in his job title. Do you really think he is trying to inform people truthfully? Do you think Time does not have the resources to check out what he writes? PARTICULARLY on a subject of this importance?
His job is to deceive or you would see a retraction, an apology and he would go get a job selling cars. No one. I repeat, NO ONE is this stupid. If you can prove he is this stupid and is not doing this intentionally then it is Time that should be taken to task for using him.