Some days, it feels like we are all stuck on the Island of Misfit Press. (No one wants an interview with a Charlie In the Box!) To wit, when presidential spokesperson Dana Perino says something like this:
White House press secretary Dana Perino said it wasn’t clear what McClellan meant in the excerpt. “The president has not and would not ask his spokespeople to pass on false information,” she said.
Well, you’d think there would be some follow-up questions along the lines of:
– Dana, that was a well-parsed dodge of an answer. Did the President stand by and allow others in the Administration to ask his spokesperson to pass on false information?
– Did the President knowingly allow members of the administration to feed false information to his spokesperson so that it would be passed to the public? And, a quick follow-up, if not, is the president always so unaware of what members of his staff are doing?
– Was the false information passed on by Karl Rove? And, if so, when did the President ascertain that Mr. Rove was passing on outright lies to the American public through the presidential spokesperson? What affirmative steps did the president take to be certain that the lies were corrected publicly, if any? Why did Mr. Rove then continue to work for the Bush Administration for _______ months — that whole “we’re going to restore character to the White House” thing was really just a slogan, wasn’t it, Dana?
– Did the lies fed to the American public through the presidential spokesperson come from the Vice President’s office? If so, did the president know about them running his press strategy? Is that how things are usually done in the Bush Administration with regard to crisis management — Dick Cheney’s office takes over the reins and drives the strategy? When did the President learn that his Vice President was directing lies to the American public through his official spokesperson? What did he do about it, if anything?
– When and how and from whom did the President learn of the lies being told to the American public by his official spokesperson? Did he disclose that information to the special prosecutor?
– Can you tell us anything about the shouting match that occurred between Patrick Fitzgerald and Dick Cheney during the Vice President’s interview with the Special Prosecutor? (Okay, that isn’t really a logical follow-up, but dammit I want someone with access to chase that rumor down….)
– Were there meetings between the Vice President, Mr. Libby, Mr. Rove, Mr. Card, President Bush and other members of the WHIG during which a media strategy was assembled for dealing with the questions raised in Mr. Wilson’s op-ed? If so, how many meetings? Who was present at each? What was discussed? Who was the point person in that pushback? When was this decided? How closely was the President following this public pushback?
– And, finally Dana, since the president’s prior spokesperson has admitted to deceiving the American public from that podium based on information told to him by others in the Bush Adminsitration, why should we believe anything you say?
See, that’s not so hard. Not exactly holding my breath for any of these to be asked, but still, it felt good to type them all out. Did the press learn nothing from Cathie Martin’s testimony on how easily they have been played by Bush Administration tactics and spin?
Oh, hell. Just go read TBogg. (spew warning — put down all liquid before clicking thru this link)
(Photo via Jill – Glossy Veneer.)
Related posts:
- Iran: Don’t Lead, Don’t Follow, and Instead Get Out of the Way
- Late Night: Vertebrates on Parade
- Cheney’s Lawyer Already Leaked the Content of Cheney’s “Privileged” Interview
- Sheldon Whitehouse: “No Further Actionable Intelligence Was Obtained” from Abu Zubaydah by Waterboarding
- Bush Approved Torture… in 2003?





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Good morning Christy!
Do I win?
Shuster laid down the challenge to the WH press stenos this morning. Gregory? Who da man? You or my man David?
Now now, they can’t ask nasty, pointed questions like that. If they did, they wouldn’t be invited to the special White House Christmas party!
Follow up question- Dana, do you feel you the that the president is giving you full and complete information now?
Subpoena Scotty’s fat ass and get him under oath.
And while they’re at it, enforce the other subpoenas.
Prairie Sunshine @ 3
Fixed.
Sorry, guys, not on my game. Frazzled and flyin’ for holiday. Now let’s get those turkeys outa there.
Hit_escape @ 5
No scheiss.
Good morning Christy!
While we’re parsing every word, don’t forget to ask:
“Did the President ask a third party to instruct the press secretary to tell lies?”
See, he didn’t ask a spokesperson to lie. He would never, ever do that! ;)
You mean Bush lied? No way!
Come on. This doesn’t surprise anyone here, does it?
OT driveby (but on the theme of obvious followups and actual reporting):
Seems like the turkey talk propaganda is coming out. Actually caught BBC and they seem to take reporting fairly seriously (at least in this case).
The big theme of life is great and cafe lunches in Iraq is on the table to Thanksgiving. Also the story of 1000 people returning to Iraq every day (so all 2 million should be “home” 6 years) but some survey people talked to them and here are the top reasons:
1. Visa is expired
2. Out of Money
3? It is safer (12 – 15%)
And how are they going to re-claim their home that someone moved into? Well no worry the government says just give them a call and you will get your house back – see problem solved.
This and seeing the Frontline on genocide I threwup in my mouth. God can we pray for peace and an end to Genocide before stuffing food & drink.
Really OT:
Tweety actually seems to catch on that he needed a hardball at-bat yesterday and when off on the admin. “This Admin. These guys are selling amnesia every day”. But he does yell at the Plame deal and the Scotty nugget hit yesterday – so much for a week without scandel.
epu’d. What do you think is Scotty’s reason for revealing this? Did he not get any hush money or a mega-bucks job? I don’t think he’s truly amgry that he was asked to lie….puhleeze. He lied every day. Will he point out every lie or misleading statement that passed his lips? So, why this revelation? If he’s truly angry then I think it must be for expectations not realized. Did he get screwed after he left?
Gregory was too busy dancing with Rove to ask the right questions or develop the right sources.
good morning, Christy. Thanks for the really good post. We are still up to our knees in lies. And TBOGG is very funny. Started my day off just right.
Thank you for the warning, Christy — it was much appreciated. :)
I can’t believe that this was either unscripted, unplanned, or unanticipated. While I regard this Administration with scorn, I admire their message discipline. Could the Scotty disclosure be a bright shiny object to distract from another issue?
solai @ 13
Or does it have something to do with his mom’s run for governor or brother not getting Thompsons job at HHS? His family is up (or is that down?) to their collective necks in Bush’s rear.
On the Today Show this morning, Dame Meredith Vieira said the Plame affair is a “scandal that won’t go away.”
It shouldn’t.
Biodun @ 18
Wrong framing. Again. It is a crime, a conspiracy, and should be prosecuted as such. The Dems should have their backsides kicked for not being all over this in the MSM. They frustrate the hell out of me.
scory @ 16
Could be. Or more hopefully, it could be that some are sensing a change in the wind and are moving to get on the right side of future indictments.
OT MSNBC is now reporting that the pentagon is threatening that soldiers in Iraq will suffer if Congress doesn’t give them the money they want. They will only be able to provide ‘basic security and food’. This along with yesterday’s threat to lay-off 150,000 workers a week before Christmas.
So fucking shameful it makes me want to scream. No good, dirty bastards.
Oh – and NPR is slipping big-time.
From the Hillary – Obama only stories, to the everything is going great in the war, to the lack of discussion of fillabuster & how/why a 53-45 vote is a loss), to the Econ is doing pretty good, to we need illegal immigrants to sell fruit tree’s.
I force myself to watch Fox and the like and think we are all pretty trained up now to wiff slant from a mile off.
–
Speaking of slant I know some have sworn off talking candidates but I am not so sure that is a good idea. I think a full open discussion about candidates & positions is a great and needed thing (if in general we can avoid being petty which can be hard without patience).
Always the perennial questions: “What did the President know, and when did he know it?” But also:
– Whom did he ask?
– When did he ask them?
– What did they say?
I suspect he didn’t ask anyone, because like Nixon he was in it up to his elbows from the very beginning.
forgive the OT
but CSPAN 1 is showing the FISA markup committee meeting from the 15th
And WH talking point in response to McClellan’s disclosure: “The President was as misled about this as was McClellan.”
Well: Who misled the President?
Aside from Helen Thomas, the White House press corps has surrendered their role as honest brokers of the 4th Estate in exchange for access and priviledge. They are nothing more than pampered clowns.
Thank you for that link which foretells the future.
Honestly, I’m beginning to feel that the only way we can possibly survive the next 14 months is do exactly that. To write up events that will happen. A fictional foretelling of the future… either the future as feared (See Deanie Mills blog at tpm cafe – for a great post on that) or the “future perfect” – so to speak – the future as we’d like to foresee it.
One example of that, for me, is the Monument we’ll need for the bushbashing we’ve all received. And my vision of that Monument is a glassed-in defendant’s chamber in the Hague… done in granite or could be plastic, I don’t care. But I want that Memorial… of the real events… I want to foresee. Add cells if you like.
Or give your own version of the Monument we’ll need.
Biodun @ 25
Maybe we are missing the mark here. Maybe we should begin protests aimed at the WH press corps. Demanding that they ask these questions. Put them under the kleig lights for a change.
Biodun @ 25
And why would a misled president pardon the jerk who misled him?
Biodun @ 25
You know what I love? The president’s statement that ‘if anyone is found to have revealed classified info that he will take care of them’. He did.
Good Morning Christy…..
so without checking this means that Scottie did NOT testify at the Libby trail right? WHY not?
Can this case be reopened with new evidence?
solai @ 21
The Bush Pentagon is holding U.S. troops hostage!
Just as I expected. Those White House press corp members that took umbrage to Martha Raddatz’s off the cuff remark about their “coverage” –
– remained true to their trade.
Somebody please ask inadequate douchebag substitute Howie Kurtz for the official stenographer response.
The press let Bushco get away with the old two-step.
First, we can’t comment because this matter is in the judicial system.
Second, after the judicial systems work was completed [neutered by the pardon], its over and as a nation we need to move on.
And, so it goes.
solai @ 21
And so disingenuous too. They just got $469 billion (2008 Pentagon budget). You think maybe there are a few toys in there that they don’t really need?
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bi…..i/67/24537
solai @ 30
That is one of the things that I find so frightening and chilling about Bush. When he truthfully said that he thought that being a dictator was the easiest way to govern he thought that we would think he was joking. He was not. He lies so reflexively that when he tells the truth he thinks we will take it as a joke. Yes, he knew exactly what he planned to do to ‘take care of’ whoever knowing leaked Plame’s identity. He thought it was his little joke on his idiot subjects. This man is a psychopath. He and his puppetmaster need to be removed from office by whatever means the Constitution provides, and that means impeachment.
oops sorry,
Good Morning Christy!
and thanks for the spew alert, you saved my keyboard. a classic! (
(and I digg it *g*)
“The United States doesn’t torture” either.
The Bush administration has lost its credibility a long time ago.
wigwam @ 32
And that is exactly what the Dems should be saying and demonstrating every hour of the day. Where the hell are they? Our troops are being held hostage by this administration. They are being used as human shields by Bush and Cheney et al.
If Bush’s defense is that Rove and Libby lied to him- we should accept that answer and then proceed to ask:
So these guys lied to their boss, the president of the US- bald faced lies- and he didn’t fire EITHER OF THEM.
Piss poor dictator.
Troops: ” being used as human shields by Bush and Cheney et al.”
Oh, I love that! It’s perfect! Totally fits.
Troops. Their families. And anyone they let into those “lovefests” with bush… (yech!)
And John Dean said on Countdown last night that Fitz never formally closed the investigation.
(Is that true?)
He then said Fitz might want to revisit the case.
(Can Fitz do that?)
rwcole @ 40
Not only did he not fire them, he commuted the sentence of one of them.
sad to say, we are now the only remnants of the fourth estate
and we won’t be long lived when the internets begin to ration bandwidth to their corporate marketing machine
we need some non corporatists
HEY, WAIT A MINUTE
“non corporatist”
that could be the name of the third party we are gonna need if we are to keep our country in tact with her constitution
via @ 39
I think this is going to backfire. It’s going to reveal them to be the SOB’s that they are. Of course, they probably don’t care. They’ll make the civilians and troops suffer to win this battle.
Woohoo…. headline at Huffpo – ALL THE PRESIDENT’S LIARS
Then all their pictures
Too bad they are not mug shots ;)
JF @ 43
And Newsweek hired the other.
… and the market’s down 144 pts.
rwcole @ 40
solai @ 48
And oil is closing in on $100, again.
via @ 39
Absolutely. They could point out that they voted more money than Bush asked for six months ago, with the understanding that it would pay for operations into 2008. They could demand an accounting of where that money went. They could say, fine, we’ll vote more money for the troops, but we’re zero-funding Blackwater. They could say a thousand other things. But what do they say? NOTHING. Why is Mr. or Ms. independent voter going to vote for the Democrats when they can’t even get off their duffs to reply to the Republicans?
via @ 39
me likey, allow me to add as well;
Our troops are being held hostage by this administration. They are being used as human shields by Bush and Cheney .
they are being deliberately incapacitated and our assets are being given to their friends running rogue mercenary armies lying in wait till we are weakest
I told a freeper acquaintance that Bush would bring this country to it’s knees by the time he left. But, not even I imagined the damage he would do.
Further to my 42:
I remember Fitz saying that his investigation is now closed, and that everyone was going back to their old jobs, which in his case is AUSA in Chicago. (He went back to his his next case: prosecuting that crook Conrad Black.)
redx @ 22
If we can keep our eyes on the voting machines, we could probably run Al Sharpton against anything the Gopers throw at us and still win in a landslide.
perris @ 52
me likey x2. I know Murtha and Obey were on TV yesterday and I liked what Murtha said, but that is just a tiny, tiny fraction of what we should be seeing and hearing every damn day!
solai @ 53
problem is, the freeper will not agree that bush did any damage at all
he is just getting blamed for what clinton did don’tcha know
Last time I looked, it (unfortunately) wasn’t a crime to lie to the American people or for underlings to lie to Bush, so I think Fitz reopening the case is just wishful thinking. However, I can’t understand why the Dem candidates for President aren’t saying something along the lines of, “If Bush is so clueless his own people can lie to him with impunity, how on earth is he qualified to deal with foreign leaders like Putin and Musharraf?
Great post, Christy. May have even surpassed your usually high standards. I totally agree with your view.
The truth is if the President didn’t know, it’s because he didn’t want to know. Apparently he thought it more important to maintain plausible deniability, and conveyed that sentiment to Scottie. The proof is in what has happened since Libby got himself convicted.
Someone should ask Dana if she really means to say that the President was lied to by his own chief of staff, Andy Card, and by the VP and by Rove and Libby, but he kept Card and Rove in his employment and maintained a close relationship with the VP anyway. Not only that, he commuted the sentence of the court for Libby. This all makes him complicit, contrary to what he implied when he told the American people that if anyone in his administration was involved in outing Valerie Plame’s identity, he’d like to know and that person would be dealt with accordingly. The President did nothing about the lies that now he gets to share in the taint.
IMO, these are high crimes and misdemeanors if there ever were any, and yet we’re being told that we are basically impotent. If we are, it’s because Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid castrated us. Taking Impeachment off the table is not a matter of principle, it is a matter of another kind of inconvenient truth. They don’t want to waste a perfectly good political issue on consideration of the impeachment of the President. Takes too much time and energy, and might interfere with their smooth running of an election to keep incumbents in office and add to their power base. So they, too, are frauds! In that way, they also get a share in the taint.
Biodun @ 42
My understanding is yes to both.
Thanks Christy for an as per usual great post.
CNN interviewed Joe Wilson in Utah this am. Joe asked the press to ask Bush and Cheney to release the transcripts of their
shouting matchesconversations with Fitz.Joe also mentioned that Congress can subpoena various people including McLellan. Scottie McMuffin opened a lot of doors. IMVHO, this has legs now because oil is near $100/barrel.
wigwam @ 29
He couldn’t, because Vice-President Cheney was never charged…
TheraP @ 27
Funny you should ask, I’ve done some thinking about an appropriate monument to the Bush Administration, and their neocon and corporofascist enablers.
Somewhere in one of the plains states, there would be a large depression in the earth, probably several hundred feet in diameter, surrounded by a thick earthen berm in which leaded glass windows have been set at various locations. Set in the earth on the floor of the depression are a number of randomly arrayed jagged black forms. These are the bodies of deceased traitors entombed in, or perhaps mixed with, glassified high-level nuclear waste. Their names would be listed at the viewing stations, but not on the monoliths themselves. Nothing would grow there. Nothing would live there. Not for a million years.
Note that I’m not suggesting that we harm anyone (I’m against the death penalty), but at the end of their lives, the bodies of the appropriate people should go here (ideally straight from the prison morgue) as an object lesson for future millenia (if we last that long).
These are the headlines from abcnews.com
Hmmm…part of the problem?
The Euro is around 1.84/dollar now.
hey Boo @60
I really think we need to shine the light on the press corps. They public needs to be shown that they are not doing their jobs. I want to see them like bugs under a microscope, but other than the blogs, who will do this so that subjects, oops, citizens, will see this?
so, who here does not think pakistan suspending the constitution isn’t a trial balloon?
who?
cause it is, this the lead at think progress, go watch the video
we are in tons of trouble, our national guard is not here to defend us, the president has them, our assets are squandered, our generals have retired
we are in tons of trouble
The transcripts of McClellan’s testimony before the grand jury should also be released.
Here’s my favorite of your questions, Christy:
Love it! And I think it is a good and logical follow-up, or maybe it’s just that I want someone to explain that incident, too!
perris @ 66
And Bush’s praetorian guard, Blackwater, is hiring lobbyists.
bg @ 64
And they’re supposed to be at parity. This will not be the American Century.
solai @ 63
It’s still featured on MSNBC.com and CNN.com. It’s even on Foxnews.com and Drudge.
via @ 28
YES!!!
Biodun @ 54
As I remember it, Fitz said it was closed but could be reopened if more information came forward.
So when does the Smear Scottie campaign start??
Biodun @ 70
you are gonna be amazed at my discovery, watch the amount of times and context “century” is used by the man who claims to have invented the word fascism
the pnac took this play book of this I am certain
bg where did you get that rate?
I check the rate frequently due to travel and this is the latest quote from two conversion sites
OT, about Fitz, iirc, John Dean mentioned last night on Olbermann that all Fitz would have to do is empanel a new GJ.
One non-political story that I do feel bad about is Dennis Quaid’s twins. Hope they pull through.
JPL @ 74
I wonder if he (SM) has some more goods in reserve. The WH response has been rather tepid so far.
The problem is, Scottie almost certainly wasn’t privy to the discussions about Plame and thus could only testify about what he was told to say, not what the truth actually was. I’d bet that was the extent of his testimony before the GJ. The firewall in Plamegate was Libby. He was the only guy who could have fingered Cheney and Bush and (what a surprise) his sentence has been commuted. Unless Scoots has a sudden attack of conscience or pique at be the only convicted felon in the crowd, Fitz still has no witness and no new information.
dalloway @ 80
scotty knows he was lied to, I actually believe when he went out to say rove had nothing to do with vallery he believed it
he knows he was lied to and he can tell us how he knows and what he knows is true now
via @ 65
I don’t know.
Markets segment which is why newspapers and the evening news continue to lose subscribers and advertisers. I think more and more people are catching onto the depravity of large swaths of the traditional media. I just keep trying to save more so I can contribute more to FDL.
Apparently, we just can’t prove the necessary intent without Libby spilling. I guess the fact that the admin breaks huddle and all run to phones to start outing an agent is still just circumstantial. Spontaneous inadvertant treason.
dalloway @ 80
As I recall, those millions of ‘missing’ WH emails started going missing about the time that Joe Wilson wrote his OpEd.
Really, folks… who believes anything this administration or the repukes say? Really, they continually lie, obfuscate, dodge, shade the truth.
Isn’t this settled “law”? I don’t think it’s even news except that the rats are abandoning the sinking ship to salvage something as the tide turns against them… deal cutting time… anyone?
Did the press learn nothing from Cathie Martin’s testimony on how easily they have been played by Bush Administration tactics and spin?
I think one of the major contributing factors to the netroots’ failure to enact significant change in America’s “mainstream” media environment is the incorrect assumption that somehow the US media was/is not knowingly (and probably eagerly) complicit in spreading the lies and propaganda of America’s newly authoritarian system of government. And, consequently, the belief that by dunning them on how they “were played” will appeal to anyone in old media’s ego or conscience.
Biodun @ 67
Agree. Let’s see how Snottie’s galleys compare with what he told Fitz.
katymine @ 76
I think you are right..the last thing that I read was that 1.50 was the line at which the European central banks would start taking action.
SteveInNC @ 79
That makes a lot of sense because normally the attacks would have already started. Who was the other Texan that left and spoke of the administration negatively. They immediately came out and discussed his mental acuity.
Unka Willbur @ 86
I don’t care if the press cares that they are being dunned. I want John Q Public to be so royally pissed about what they have done that he kicks them squarely in the pocketbook until they see the light.
via @ 84
Can’t Fitz or Leahy do something about this? There is a goldmine of information being allowed to be covered up by a criminal enterprise operating out of OUR White House. I can’t believe that Bush has been allowed, again, to lie and claim that a non-existant consultant allowed millions of emails to be ‘deleted’. Isn’t there something fundamentally wrong with this picture?
My European guests gave me the rate (1.84) yesterday, perhaps they reversed the number? I should have checked it, even at trade rates, that would be high.
Steve-AR @ 88
This is bad enough, when Bush took office the EURO v Dollar was 0.98 to $1.00. At the above rate our dollar has been devalued 50% in 7 years to the EURO.
My buying power has dropped 50% in 7 years. In other countries this would be a crisis.
I have a friend who is in the trucking business bringing goods from Long Beach CA to Phoenix. He used to have immediate turn around loads at the dock as soon as the truck was full. NOW he sits there days waiting for a load to the 5th largest city in the USA. Very interesting especially right before Christmas.
bg @ 92
147804 as of 11AM
Dow: -180.70
Here’s Chimpy telling ABC’s Charles Gibson how hard it is to be President of the US (in an interview to be broadcast today):
JPL @ 89
Was it O’Neill, the former Treasury Sec? I’m not certain that he’s Texan, but he was certainly attacked after leaving and criticizing the regime.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories…..2330.shtml
Steve, If memory serves me he was a Dem who changed parties because of his admiration of Bush.
OT..More on Facebook:
SAN FRANCISCO — Liberal advocacy group MoveOn.org launched a campaign Tuesday on Facebook against Facebook, raising privacy concerns for users of the fast-growing social network.
At issue is Facebook’s new advertising program that lets its members notify friends about movies they rent, items they auction and movie tickets they buy at partner sites elsewhere on the Web.
Facebook allows its members to opt out of the ad system, called Beacon. But MoveOn.org contends the program violates users’ privacy by requiring them to opt out rather than voluntarily opt in. “The sole reason for this new feature is to serve corporate advertisers and make it easier for them to micro-target Facebook users with ads,” MoveOn .org spokesman Adam Green said. “Breaching privacy is against the type of community Facebook should be striving for.”
(snip)
LaTimes
solai @ 21
I certainly hope that the Congress answers that they have provided the money. The President just doesn’t like the strings that they’ve attached at the request of the American people, who want the troops back home. That statistic is still up around 70%, is it not?
Can’t Fitz or Leahy do something about this? There is a goldmine of information being allowed to be covered up by a criminal enterprise operating out of OUR White House. I can’t believe that Bush has been allowed, again, to lie and claim that a non-existant consultant allowed millions of emails to be ‘deleted’. Isn’t there something fundamentally wrong with this picture?
John Dean suggested last night that either Conyers or Leahy could subpoena Scotty (probably would go nowhere, imo, because Scotty would probably honor a WH exertion of exec privilege). Dean also noted, however, that his book could be subpoenaed and reviewed prior to its official release.
He also noted that ‘criminal conspiracy to commit fraud upon the government’ could be charged.
Fitz?
Biodun @ 96
Grandpa Charlie givin’ Bush the ol’ Monica?
Had to be said.
I want John Q Public to be so royally pissed about what they have done that he kicks them squarely in the pocketbook until they see the light.
But John and Jane Lunchbucket aren’t going to hear any of it. Certainly not from old-media. So, the question arises, how best to bypass them. Sure, 5 years has taught them to mistrust this administration, but can our Republic to remain ignorant in the face of the fast moving machinations of the authoritarians’ (and I include Clinton, Obama and much of congress in that category) in power, when they remain ignorant of the full extent of the evil perpetrated by the authoritarian faction in power?
The problem isn’t that we need the public to become untrusting of the government/media alliance, but that we need them to become educated about their fast-moving plans.
I don’t honestly have any answers as to tactics, but it seems we aren’t succeeding in truly educating the public with our current tactics, just exposing enough doubt to engender mistrust.
Mistrust is not enough, as we’ve seen, to truly motivate people, it takes a knowledge of the facts to do that and, by all measures, we aren’t accomplishing that with enough success to stop this authoritarian steamroller.
Biodun @ 96:
OMG excuse me while I barf.
You know, I am increasing disturbed by the repeated use of the word ‘homeland’. And ‘warrior’.
JPL @ 98
IIRC you’re thinking of Matthew Dowd.
And here’s Chimpy on Mama:
Ah, those klieg lights…
(Same link as my 96.)
Price of a good hotel room in a European city now at $300 per night….Dinner with wine? Must be $75 bucks…
A week in Paris just got too expensive for most travelers.
The truth is not in George Bush.
And via’s comment about Bush and Chee-knee using our troops as human shields to cover their lies and corruption is absolutely golden.
As a Catholic who believes in the power of prayer, let me just say that this sort of bull makes me barf.
OT from the last thread
wigwam says:
November 21st, 2007 at 6:01 am
George Simian @ 36
Lou Dobbs is one of the liars responsible for stirring up immigration hatred.
[…]
So was Caesar Chavez, who referred to illegal immigrant farm workers as “scabs” and turned them in to the Immigration Service.
Chavez reported illegal immigrants and their employers that were being used as “scabs” in efforts to break the UFW. He also opposed some LEGAL immigration that was intended to do the same thing. He strongly opposed the BRACERO Program for that reason.
I can’t conceive that Chavez was a “nativist”…his sole goal was to prevent the manipulation of individuals to the detriment of those in his union.. whose members were made up of immigrant residents, Chicano citizens from the time of the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, and naturalized US Citizens. There may have been a few illegal immigrants in the UFW ranks as well using false papers.
If the illegal immigrants used by the growers and the “Braceros” could have been unionized and offered the same benefits and wages as citizens who were unionized it would have been a different matter. But Chavez wasn’t going to allow the destruction of his union.
“I’ll tell you one thing that’ll surprise ‘em if they’ve got an open heart, is that the prayers of the people will affect ‘em in a positive way. That has been one of the most surprising aspects of the presidency for me. “
Most of us have been prayin for his lyin ass to be impeached—–feel the LOVE Clusterfuck you outrageous piece of shit!
Unka Willbur @ 103
You have reached the heart of the dilemma. Bravo. I’d welcome your and others’ ideas of how we cross this chasm. It is the key, I am convinced.
katymine @ 93
European manufactures must be in a panic..the have to be “eating” a lot of the spread; if they passed on the whole rise in the Euro, they couldn’t sell anything in the US. To use Jane’s luxury metric, the Birkin handbag, @ 1.48EU, the Birkin Blue Croc Diamond would sell for $223,700.*g*
dakine01 @ 105
Yup, Steve’s comment about the lack of a response could indicate that Scottie knows lots of interesting tidbits.
For a reporter to get an interview with the most despised president in US history and throw him one softball after another shows that the whole profession has totally lost their way and forgotten what the fuck their job is.
jayt @ 101
Nice catch.
Here’s a link to the criminal conspiracy statute:
923 18 U.S.C. § 371 — Conspiracy to Defraud the United States
“[…] Although this language is very broad, cases rely heavily on the definition of “defraud” provided by the Supreme Court in two early cases, Hass v. Henkel, 216 U.S. 462 (1910), and Hammerschmidt v. United States, 265 U.S. 182 (1924). In Hass the Court stated:
The statute is broad enough in its terms to include any conspiracy for the purpose of impairing, obstructing or defeating the lawful function of any department of government . . . (A)ny conspiracy which is calculated to obstruct or impair its efficiency and destroy the value of its operation and reports as fair, impartial and reasonably accurate, would be to defraud the United States by depriving it of its lawful right and duty of promulgating or diffusing the information so officially acquired in the way and at the time required by law or departmental regulation.
Hass, 216 U.S. at 479-480. In Hammerschmidt, Chief Justice Taft, defined “defraud” as follows:
To conspire to defraud the United States means primarily to cheat the Government out of property or money, but it also means to interfere with or obstruct one of its lawful governmental functions by deceit, craft or trickery, or at least by means that are dishonest. It is not necessary that the Government shall be subjected to property or pecuniary loss by the fraud, but only that its legitimate official action and purpose shall be defeated by misrepresentation, chicane or the overreaching of those charged with carrying out the governmental intention.[…] “
“It’s hard work Charlie- but I got my firm principles that keep me on track- like never spend more than an hour a day on US business.”
rwcole @ 115
That’s why Gibson got the interview, not Shuster.
Yup, Steve’s comment about the lack of a response could indicate that Scottie knows lots of interesting tidbits.
So why do I have this sneaking suspicion that the only remotely controversial thing in the whole book has already been released?
I, for one, am not anticipating a whole heck of a lot of anything but love for Georgie, and the collective brilliance of his entire administration.
Unka Willbur @ 103
I think oil at $100/barrel is creating some momentum.
rwcole @ 107
Did you see “Sicko”? Canadians are afraid to come to the U.S. for fear they’ll need medical care that will bankrupt them. A couple told of a friend who went to Hawaii and ended up with a $600,000 med bill. Now, that couple won’t venture across the border. Wait till that idea hits everyone in Europe. We can’t afford to go there, and they’ll be afraid to come here.
“Mr. President- do you feel better now that the success of the surge has vindicated your presidumbcy? Do you wear boxers or briefs? What does Laura wear under her uniform?”
And here’s Laura (helped along by Chimpy) on her own expertise on Burma and international affairs in general:
Mr. Interrupter. (And thanks, Mr. President, for contributing a few monikers to the English language.)
(Same link as above.)
Laura building her own presidential library- this one to actually have BOOKS in it. She says that she has been responsible for all the policies that WORKED!
Boo Radley @ 120
Maybe, but relying on the deus-ex machina of rising oil-prices seems like a bad bet given the recent history of americans’ fiscal behavior. i.e. People are just “absorbing” the added costs with little more than a whimper.
Do you feel better or worse knowing that it’s really a Midland librarian who’s running the country?
Contrast Laura Bush with Elizabeth Kucinich. And Elizabeth was interviewed recently and asked only about her tongue ring. As some one said above, we are in tons of trouble.
Astral Technician @ 73
I believe the word used was “inactive”.
IMHO, YMMV,
-S
Laura’s willingness to grab credit for anything done by this administration shows a deadness in the brain that extends to her toes.
solai @ 121
I just read a few days ago that foreign travel has spiked up, do to falling dollar. After 9/11, foreign visitors have been treated like trash by US officials; I guess @ 1.48$/EU people will put up a lot.
On October 7th, 2003, President Bush famously declared of the outing of covert CIA operative Valerie Plame, “I don’t know if we’re going to find out the senior administration official.” Now we have more insight as to Bush’s misplaced confidence that the truth would remain hidden. In his new tell-all book, former White House press secretary Scott McClellan claims President Bush himself played an instrumental role in the failed cover up.
For the details, see:
“McClellan Book Confirms Bush’s October 2003 Plamegate Lie.”
So who is going to ask clusterfuck WHO lied to him about Rove/Libby? WHO? And who is going to ask him why he didn’t fire someone’s ass for doin the lyin? Who?
These reporters don’t need to be rocket scientists to see that there’s an important question there.
rwcole @ 131
Don’t lose sleep waiting for that to happen. The Homo Simian’s handlers will never let a true investigative reporter within shouting range of Bush.
Good Morning, Happy nearly Turkey Day :)
So OT, but the very first thing that came to my mind was, ‘Hmmm, I wonder what he was currently working on/involved and was some-one trying to keep him quiet?’…How bad is that?
SoCal lawmaker’s grandchildren missing
Southern California Congressman’s 3 Grandchildren Reported Missing, Sheriff’s Officials Say
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/n…..ildren.php
Will be interesting if Huchabee starts closin in on Rudy Doody. Wall Street will cringe!
And here’s Laura basically saying that Hillary’s years as FLOTUS gives her the experience she needs to be POTUS (and on how time flies!):
(Same link as others.)
nomolos @ 94
If they are German, we say the second decimal point (eight in this case) first and then the first: we say “eight and fourty”, instead of ‘fourty eight’. That may have been the misunderstanding.
Biodun @ 25
Follow Up: And why pardon one and allow the other to remain as your top political advisor with a Security Clearance if the lied to you? Why didn’t you fire both of them?
OT:
I was at an Edwards rally last night where Bonnie Rait and Jackson Brown performed. Yeah!
Edwards mentioned in his speech that this administration is actually sending bills to Service members who have been injured/disabled in the war, demanding re-payment of their enlistment bonus because they did not fulfill their obligations. Has anyone seen coverage of this?
And here’s Laura basically saying that Hillary’s years as FLOTUS gives her the experience she needs to be POTUS (and on how time flies!):
Interesting how the Bushes seem to be *dying* that it be Hillary the Repub’s run against, isn’t it?…
jackie @ 134
Most likely explanation is the current custody battle between the parents. [Saving my tinfoil hat for a better use]
havent read any white house press conferences since tony snowman died____er left
but todays will probably be interesting
via @ 112
Unfortunately my only ideas, taking back the Democratic party as the local organizational level and large, regular demonstrations by people who most people can identify with (read: no “anarchists” or jester-hat wearing “socialist butterflies” are ones that can act as quickly or effectively as I believe we need to.
I don’t fault us for doing what we can, but I think we must do more, faster. Because, while 8 years of poli-sci has taught me to recognize the signs of our (now nearly unstoppable) decline into authoritarianism even special studies in “Democracies and Revolution” (the primary theme of my thesis) has not given me any remotely sure answers on how to stop such a decline.
And let me add though, that I commend the efforts the netroots has made so far. Doing something with the proper intentions/goals is most often better than doing nothing
jackie @ 134
My understanding is that Gary Miller is part of the corrupt group of SoCal congressman that includes Doolittle and Jerry Lewis amongst others.
A custody dispute can be extremely divisive as this appears to be. Not all bad things that happen are conspiracies against the US population.
rwcole @ 129
Laura’s willingness to grab credit for anything done by this administration shows a deadness in the brain that extends to her toes.
don’t like to brag – but *I* have brilliant toes…
$469 billion and you can’t find money for the troops? What are your priorities, then, if not the troops?
rwcole @ 107
Have you seen New York hotel prices lately? Those old dumps of the three star kind, at 400 and up?
I wonder how many folks in-country think it seems like just yesterday we decided to invade Iraq?
And here’s Glenn Greenwald today, smacking down Joe Klein:
solai @ 109
I wonder if Cheney’s got Charlton Heston in the oval office attic, talking through the HVAC vent.
musicsleuth @ 145
$469 billion and you can’t find money for the troops? What are your priorities, then, if not the troops?
As far as money goes, it’s a “private” party – they get paid first, ya know…
BlueMesa @ 51
Well, I don’t think that is really true. I watched a press conference yesterday with David Obey and John Murtha, and the two said plenty. Called the Pentagon on the scare tactics that they are using. Said there would be no more money without strings attached. Said that they have provided the money, but the President doesn’t like the timetable attached. Here’s a link to a news article about the press conference. You’ll have to look for the press conference on youtube or maybe one of the TPM pages is where I saw the clip.
OT:
More on the Bush Adminstration sending collection notices to wounded soldiers to recover their enlistment bonuses: Link
Sure, the GOP supports our troops!!!
SteveInNC @ 35
Yes! The should haul Gates in to Congress and ask pointedly and repeatedly “You don’t think that suspending the production of “X” for a year is more something that could be done to counter furloughs of the employees and provide adequate materials for the troops in their basic mission?
They should go through each and every aspect of the Pentagon program and ask the question over and over and over…having Gates say each and every time. “X” is more important than the furloughed employees. “Y” is more important than the basic provisioning of our troops.
Then Congressmen could then ask…”If maintaining the troops in Iraq are such a low priority to the Bush Administration then why are we there? Perhaps we should begin withdrawing them?”
Taylor Marsh reminded me of an appropriate quote for these times:
link
New thread from Christy:
Put Your Pencils To Work For Writers
California Democrats have tried to censure Bush Dog Feinstein. Democratic Party hack, Muholland calls them “worse than Bush”. See Crooksand Liars for a lively thread.
Christy’s upstairs…
dalloway @ 58
1) While lying to the American people or even to Bush is not illegal, lying to Fitz would be. Although I, too, think the chance of Fitz reopening the case for prosecution is slim to none, if there is any incident that Fitz feels proves he was lied to by someone other than Libby, he might pursue it. However, the way I see it, the only way he would pursue it is if he could name Bush an unindicted co-conspirator, because otherwise Bush would just pardon or commute the sentences, amounting to a huge waste of our tax dollars.
2)I’ve been hoping we could figure out that Bush is not running and stop trying to run against him. I’m pretty sure that once general election candidates are chosen, the Rethugs will take Rove’s advice and move away from the President as fast as they can. It’s very tempting, but just keep repeating, “Bush is not running. Bush is not running.”
jayt @ 101
Or fraud against the public. If Scotty is just contriving a way to get people to buy his book by the most excruciating “leading the witness” sort of stylistics, then it would be sweet irony if he was hauled before Congress and forced to say:
“This was all written so that people would buy my stupid book, which no one would actually be interested in if I simply told what I actually know about what went on in the Whitehouse or the world. In reality I’m just an unflushed stool floating in the toilet bowl, a Knucklehead Smith that will parrot whatever lie is passed to me from my boss.
I never actually analyze or ask for details as it would prevent me from having the necessary belief in the lies. I might trip up if I knew even a glimmering of the truth. Truth leads to compromise and dangerous mental contortions. Knowledge of the actual facts might result in revealing something.”
Ann in AZ @ 152
I saw the conference, too, but this needs to happening daily. The dems have more than enough ammunition. They must do whatever it takes to hold press conferences, tv appearances, anything and everything to deliver this message. Daily. Hourly. It needs to be unrelenting and nonstop.
Biodun @ 106
Bush’s favorite Broadway play “Springtime for Hitler”
(not, mind you, “The Producers”)
How can you tell if you’re listening to a professional liar? Just ask one simple question — Are you a loyal Bushie? If they don’t answer at all — that’s a sure giveaway.
The other way is to see if they stick to their same old rhetoric — as in repeating the lie often enough so that you are tempted to accept it as being true.
Paulson on Housing
They just want you to believe. That’s all — just believe. And if you don’t believe then make-believe.
After all, it’s what they do for a living…
solai @ 109
I’m not sure what the American people are praying for, but if results of the praying are reflected in his approval rating…well..I’m not so sure they’re praying “for” him…maybe they’re praying for the day he leaves office.
Steve-AR @ 113
But American producers must be gleeful at how well they are doing in Europe…all those American wines suddenly cheap as the domestiques , cheaper cigarettes, and cars that competitive with Japanese and Korean models (well if you ignore the cost of petrol).
Ann in AZ @ 152
Agree on Obey and Murtha, more power to ‘em. I meant to criticize the House and Senate leaders for their silence, along with the sorry crop of Democrats running for national office.
How about: Did the President order, tell or otherwise instruct his spokesperson to pass on false information?
It’s not as if georgie ever asks anyone to do anything. He tells them to it.
Notice the fine nuance there. Dana couldn’t have been lying either.
George Simian @ 11
Anybody who works in the Bush administration knows their primary job is to lie to the public about screwing the public and about stealing everything that isn’t nailed down and about using government to gain political advantage.
It’s their job description. Things like ‘press secretary’ or ‘Secretary of State’ are purely secondary appendages of no major importance.
Anybody else holding their breath waiting for Russert to ask Matalin these questions Sunday morning?
Biodun @ 25
‘as misled’ meaning, neither was especially misled at all
Bush up to elbows in it…
solai @ 78
Is it true that Thompson’s twins had an overdose of silicone, but that they’re looking better now?
solai @ 109
Well, there must be a few kind souls out there praying for him, else he would’ve already burst into flames and disappeared from this mortal coil — en route to his final destination of eternal flames and brimstone.
BTW, just what is brimstone?
MarkH @ 171
MarkH,
I think this attempt at humor is failing. I’ll pray for your children down the road given this failure.
solai @ 121
dakine01 @ 173
Oh woe is me. I was just trying to get in my monthly snark to keep up with the foul-mouthed fem blog requirements.
My parents thank you, my children thank you, all my posterity thank you.
No one will ask Perino the tough followups because they won’t be asked to come back. I saw Charles Gibson puff interview last night on ABC and wanted to throw up at all the softballs he was tossing. When is someone going to do a piece on W’s and Laura’s fake laughter like they did Hillary?
Impeach, all else follows, it is imperative.
If conspiracy and treason for outing a covert CIA agent is’nt grounds for impeachment, what is?
“The president has not and would not ask his spokespeople to pass on false information,” she said.”
Nope, he wouldn’t ask, he would order because he is the Deciderer and Orderer…
President Bush said he would fire anyone involved in the leak. Will he now fire Vice President Cheney and resign?
rwcole @ 129
rw – if you’re still here:
Speaking of “deadness in the brain”…or something, have you seen Fran Townsend’s letter to W:
” In 1937, the playwright Maxwell Anderson wrote of President George Washington: There are some men who lift the age they inhabit, til all men walk on higher ground in their lifetime.
Mr. President, you are such a man.”
Ohh, I wasn’t really thinking that something ‘tin foilly’ was happening, but boy am I getting cynical…:)
egregious @ 141
“– And, finally Dana, since the president’s prior spokesperson has admitted to deceiving the American public from that podium based on information told to him by others in the Bush Adminsitration, why should we believe anything you say?”
This is your most pertinent point I believe. Of the 15 peoplel I asked at work today if they’d heard of this revelation, not a single one had. I’m disgusted.
pma @ 83
An admirably concise and well-aimed summary! “Spontaneous inadvertent treason,” indeed!