Here’s the Sunday talking head line-up for this morning.
C-SPAN’s Washington Journal — 7:30am – Ron Brownstein, Atlantic Media, Political Director; 9am – Stephen Morrison, Center for Strategic & International Studies, Director of the Africa Program; 9:30am – Dan Blumenthal, U.S.-China Economic & Security Review Commission, Vice Chair | Report.
ABC’s This Week — Former Sen. Fred Thompson (R-TN); David Brooks, Donna Brazile, Jake Tapper and George Will; plus, Kayce Freed Jennings discusses her new biography about the life and legacy of Peter Jennings.
CBS’ Face the Nation — Former Sen. John Edwards (D-NC); Jeanne Cummings, The Politico.
NBC’s Meet the Press — With 46 days to the Iowa caucuses, a political discussion on the race for the White House with Ron Brownstein, E.J. Dionne, Gwen Ifill, Chuck Todd and Byron York; and a 60-year anniversary retrospective of the show.
CNN’s Late Edition — Former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto; Japanese Prime Minister Yasuo Fukuda; former Sen. John Edwards (D-NC).
Fox News Sunday — Former Gov. Mike Huckabee (R-AR); Billy Martin, attorney for Sen. Larry Craig (R-ID), and NFL quarterback Michael Vick.
Chris Matthews Show: Dan Rather, Katty Kay, Michele Norris, and Howard Fineman.
60 Minutes: Pieces on the Innocence Project; on the Omar Khadr case; and American overconsumption of calories.
Let’s play spot the Democrats: I see Sen. John Edwards. Donna Brazile. And…erm…anyone else?
Today’s photo is another great one from Julie at Julie’s Magic Light Show. She caught a purple finch, a house finch and three goldfinches on her hopper feeder.
(Photo used with express permission, so please don’t copy it without askng Julie first. Thanks!)
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I hope Brazile is wearing a flak jacket, given the other folks on that panel!
top of the mornin’!
Does Larry Craig really think having his name [via the appearance of his attorney] appear on the same panel as Michael Vick will improve his image?
Good morning CHS.
g’ morning – I’m up WAY too early, but the coffee is ready – hold out your cups.
Mauimom @ 3
Hey, don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. (Does anyone know what that cliche means? Maybe google or wike will reveal all.)
I’m not entirely sure they jury’s fully in on Donna Brazile’s Democrat-ness…
Good Morning Christy!
Don’t look …
Means if someone gives you a horse, don’t check out its age by opening its mouth & looking at its teeth.
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/117000.html
jayt @ 7
Agree. If not fully a Vichy Dem then she’s a Beltway Dem and totally ineffective.
good morning!
the birds should thank christy and julie for reminding me – all the bird feeders look empty… off to fill them now.
Fireworks about to erupt on WJ. Reading article on Lou Dobbs considering entering prez race. Already had a caller favoring that.
Morning everybody. i gotta run and go make coffe but I’ll be back. This is one of the most atrocious Sunday a.m. lineups I’ve ever seen. Michael Vick? Even if he wasn’t old news, he never was news. Bum.
I agree w/ jayt about Brazile. Even if she is a Dem., she’s an inarticulate, incompetent fool and she must share lotsa responsibility (blame?) for Gore losing (”losing”). She has nothing to say. Beltway loser. So what am I down to? Am I gonna watch Edwards twice saying the same damn thing no matter what question he’s asked? This lineup sucks.
eCAHNomics @ 12
Good morning all. I personally hope he does and that Ron Paul runs a third party campaign. I don’t mind splitting conservative votes nine different ways.
eCAHNomics @ 12
Blitzer for VP! [/snark]
pma @ 14
zactly. Even if just one of them ran……. But I don’t think either will.
twolf1 @ 15
A Lou Dobbs cabinet…….. My mind just recoils at the thought. BOING!
pma @ 14
You forgot to mention the evangelicals. Yep. Would be nice to see them eating their own.
Mike Vick on fox? Hmmmm lessee here…the republican constituencies are now going to be made up of the corporate oligarchs, theocons, neocons, and just the plain old cons. I like it.
Mauimom @ 3
In comparison…yes. Toe-tapper vs. dog-killer. Larry comes out looking like a saint.
eCAHNomics @ 18
Yeah, I’ve been trying to think up ways we could embarrass them all into standing up for their “principles” (don’t know how to do the line through thing or would use prejudices) and starting breakaway campaings.
eCAHNomics @ 6
The adage comes from the fact that old or diseased horses, as well as those that had fed on gritty forage would have bad or heavily worn teeth. Purchasers of horses were always advised to examine the teeth of a horse…but if it was FREE…well don’t get all snooty about it.
At least Hucksterbee is in appropriate company on Fox News. It looks like Fux is promoting the Huckster to bring down Romney…
I hope drunk pundit Lou Dobbs does run. It will get him off tv.
I’d like to make an important point as it relates to something thers posted last night concerning “the federalist party”
when we talk about the federalist party and use in the same sentence “strict constitutionalists” we are defeating our own purpose.
even if we then go on to explain that they are not, we have set the parameter of defense against their claims
this is a war of words not ideas and we have to set the correct tone whenever we discuss this kind of marketing
rather then “the federalists who claim they are strict constitutionalists” we need to start with the premise that they are thief’s, like so;
“the robber barons in the federalist fraternity who try to convince everyone of constitutional interpretations only a child would accept as valid”
I know that’s verbose but it’s important to set the tone before we even mention the “society”.
it’s a war of words not a war of ideas, progressives have the ideas that move America forward, these fascists have the language that convinces people to vote against themselves and their children and we need to use every tool we can to win back America and her constitution
here’s an example from thers below
My second favorite story of the day is how Musharraf played W. Well worth the read. Money grafs:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11…..?ref=world
Good morning from L.A. What a great pic of those finches chowing down.
Up early this Sun. like many of you. The early rising is in a good cause, though- driving up to Lompoc to have breakfast w/old friends who are retired Air Force from Vandenberg AFB.
Great guys. They’re funny, smart, & Democrats. The perfect companions for breakfast & a hike this a.m.
Here’s a photo of a snowy egret taking off. The area near Lompoc called Surf is full of many looking just like this. Hope to get over there on the hike today to check them out:
Snowy Egret Taking Off
Marie
gorgeous picture!
perris@24
Quibble: it’s both wars.
I agree with most of your points, and to illustrate, who in their right minds would talk about medical care for poor kids as “SCHIP”?
katherine Graham Cracker @ 23
I think Fox is giving Huckabee easy targets to differentiate himself from.
by the way, G’MORNING EVERYONE
can’t stay too long
Good morning Christy!
Late night adventure story, bottom of the last thread.
Elliott @ 27
I love the way they kind of jump into the air like that sometimes…
KGC
Does he have a drinking problem? Doesn’t manifest any symptoms on air that I’ve been able to spot.
eCAHNomics @ 25
and remember when he didn’t know where Pakistan was? I mean didn’t know who was running the country? /s
eCAHNomics @ 28
I wish there was some way we could educate the public to understand Federalist Society in the same way people understood John Birch Society in the 60’s. Maybe we could have a second folk song revival.
eCAHNomics @ 28
the reason I say it’s not a war of ideas is the fact that once we make the progressive case an inteligent person usually agrees with our ideas
the problem we have is with the marketing of those ideas
here’s the point;
WE are the concervatives NOT the republicans, WE want to concerve our envirnment, our economy, our armed forces, our infrastructure
WE are the party of strong military with support for our soldiers
WE are the party of international integrity
WE are the party of small government
WE are the party of lower taxes for the vast majority of Americans
we are the party of keeping the government out of our friggin private lives
WE are the party of the rule of law, WE ARE THE PARTY OF THE CONSITUTION
WE are the party of NON activist judges
yet the republicans are able to convince people that THEY are that party
that’s my point, we WIN the war of ideas but the republicans win the war of words
we have to use the type of marketing strategy that they use and we need to use it better, we are better at most things, what we are not better at is describing to the masses what we stand for
I hope Dan Rather talks about his law suit
on Bush’s Texas National Guard Service cover up…
Yummy
not sure donna brazile counts as a democrat most days.
eCAHNomics @ 28
True
It should have been named the
“Keep Kids Healthy and Reduce the Tax Burden Act”
No acronym – just a straight message.
And it would be truthful in that affordable preventitive care saves money in the long run.
mack @ 39
Using Republican tactics, it should have been “Healthy Kids for a Strict Interpretation Act.” Name it what soem people want to hear, regardless of what it really does.
eCAHNomics @ 33
At times he appears drunk to me and this one example of someone else thinking it as well
http://www.topix.com/forum/new…..A608DLRUFL
if you google Lou Dobbs and drunk there are a number of folks who have noticed something going on. I think he is running because he is going to be fired.
mack @ 39
to steal a little o’reilly
THAT’S what I’m talking about, the republicans do that EVERY time and we NEVER do it
to wit;
“the patriot act” which was anti american
“the clean air act” which allows corporations to dump their crap in my kids water and air
“the energy act” which leaves us without national energy
the list goes on ad infinitum and we MUST do what the republicans do with this war of words
when the republicans name a bill we need to REname it for what it really is
when WE name a bill, no acronyms, a discriptive bill that will make it hard to vote against
nice post eCAHNomics
Apparently the California Democratic Executive Board have killed theDianne Feinstein Censure Resolution.
It’s clear that the party leadership is intent on killing any progressive resolutions before they get to the floor where the “rank and file” would have an opportunity to make a real statement.
Art Torres argues that the resolution would “split the party”…ignoring that this is precisely what Feinstein DID DO! I pointed out in earlier comments that those who rallied to support DiFi are exposing themselves to the wrath of those that she is immune from.
John Hanna seems to be the main hit-man in all of this. He’s blocked procedurally or surrepticiously resolutions on Net Neutrality (after meeting privately with AT&T), Opposing Blackwater West, and Favoring the Impeachment of Bush and Cheney. He refers to activists as “the Black Helicopter crew”. Now his sign ripping escapade.
Hanna was even stripped of his leadership posts, and as a representative to the State Convention, by the Orange County Democratic Party. This was after he endorsed Republican Congressman Ed Royce (R- 40th District Orange County) in 2004.
But Art Torres, overruling the local party, reinstated Hanna.
Clearly the party leadership needs a complete turnover in California to one that at the very least allows the average Democrat to renounce those that stray from Party ideals.
cinnamonape @ 20
Folks, folks folks, Larry Craig’s attorney is Michael Vick’s attorney. Same man. The names are already linked for all time.
Perris
Don’t forget the classic
“No Child Left Behind”
WHich lied and sent a coded message to Evangelifacists as well.
Nice picture. Some Sunday morning triviata. the eastern goldfinch is the state bird of new jersey. Christy, you just went and made me homesick! Not really, I can deal with blue skies and 78 degrees here in the City Beautiful. But I do miss Jersey in so many, many ways.
luntzian language
I even have my doubts about Ifil at times, Christy. I think I would add Donna Brazille though. I gues it’s all in peoples perception.
Beerfart Liberal @ 46
Noty least of which is not having to be in a district specifically gerrymandered for a Republican blockhead — who took a term limit pledge but then decided he was doing such a great job, well, he’d let the voters decide if we couldn’t just forget about that. they did. Schmucks.
egregious @ 31
Went back and read about your adventure, eg. That’s quite a welcome to Menlo Park! After the false fire alarm etc. I hope it’s all smooth sailing for the rest of your day.
Elliott @ 47
referring to Frank Luntz who teaches leh art of propaganda via linguistics
so to explain…good 2 c u Elliott
perris @ 51
thank you and same here
Marie Roget @ 50
That’s not Menlo Park in New Jersey, is it? Man, everybody’s making me homesick this morning.
Larry Craig and Michael Vick… …bottom of the barrel anyone?
So. I get my coffee and sit down to watch the talking heads and my son has decided to watch SpongeBob in the family room where I was going to watch TV. With this morning’s lineup, I’m gonna let him. Could somebody please let me know if anybody says anything? I’m gonna go watch SpongeBob and do some belt loops with a cub scout. (Doesn’t the Plankton characyer make you think of Cheney?)
perris @ 24
Perris- When I see words in “quotation marks” I think of Dr. Evil in Austin Powers. It means…take these words as meaning just the opposite or as deceptive code-words for something completely different. Words in quotation marks are placed there for reasons that mean they aren’t to be read as actually meaning what they appear to say. That’s absolutely standard.
I have a question? You seem to be really interested in the issue of others “misstating” things that you think that they should say in a completely different way. A lot of your posts are about telling people what how they should write. Are you an editor or a semiologist, or something?
Should we not use the term “Democratic Party”…because they aren’t? Or the “Republicans” but that label…as they aren’t really abiding by the principles of representative government?
I don’t think that when someone places a word that the Federalists use to label themselves in quotation marks…and then completely deconstructs why they AREN’T “Constitutionalists” at all is doing something that is “defeating our own purpose”.
In fact, it strips the facade right off the rotten edifice.
Not politics, but justice topic. Wapo has story “FBI Forensic Test Full of Holes.” Money grafs:
My guilty pleasure, among others, is CSI. As I’ve been watching them over the years, I’ve become more & more skeptical about the “science.” The lead matching problem is one that, as the article points out, has been discredited for years. Hair matching is another flakey one.
Lots of work for the Innocence Project.
Beerfart Liberal @ 55
Lol. Now you’re making me nostalgic. Mine all grown.
cinnamonape @ 56
I thought perris added the quatation marks, so I’m really not sure you guys disagree, do you? Aren’t yopu both saying the people who call themselves strict constructionists really aren’t and we should call ‘em on it?
BTW, I’m back. Hate to say, but SpongeBob sucks almost as bad as today’s talking head lineup.
pma @ 35
Don’t call them the Federalist Society!
Because they aren’t Federalists…They are Feudalists. And they hate Society.
In fact, the Federalists want to reduce the power of the Federal Government to defend the Bill of Rights and Individual Liberties. With the exception of Executive diktat, they want to shrink the role of the other branches to being handmaidens in support of the War President.
Call them the Feudalist Society…even if nobody else knows what you are talking about.
cinnamonape @ 61
Why don’t we just call ‘em “assholes.” then people will know what we’re talking about.
Today’s WaPo0 editorial from FFFH
Title on the actual editorial, “Iraq’s Narrow Window.”
Title on web front page tease for editorial, “Don’t let the surge fail.”
pma @ 35
I’m in for the folk song revival. Somebody could do “Talking John Birch Society Blues” on Letterman like Dylan was supposed to do on Ed Sullivan (in the veruy same theater) but they wouldn’t let him.
Beerfart Liberal @ 53
California girl here. Does that make the homesickness any better?
pma @ 58
Jeez, me too. My only child writing her dissertation & getting married this spring. No Cub Scouts, but lots of fond memories of Girl Guide Sparks up in Toronto when we lived there…
BTW, I think it’s Menlo Park CA for egregious, but she’d have to confirm that, Bf Liberal. And I now notice you just did, eg :-)
Driving up to Lompoc now, & a foggy drive it will be this a.m.
Read you all later.
cinnamonape @ 61
I’m not sure it works that way. Republicans were able to turn respected names/words, like liberal and Democrat into unpopular concepts. They didn’t change the words, but repeated unpopular concepts like “welfare queens” ad nauseum. So, if someone saw a flashcard saying liberal, they automatically saw, give your money to undeserving lazy people. I’m not sure the word change thing is as effective. In fact, constructions like “islamofacist” are laughable and largly unpronouncable to the target audience.
egregious @ 65
No, just the mention of Menlo Park…… There’s one in NJ and I used to live in a town called Edison – near the Menlo Mall. I think it’s just the holidays making me honmesick, really. But that was quite a late night adventure. I think we have a Sand Lake Road where I am now. It’s weird.
Good morning everyone! What a great day to sleep in.
Beerfart Liberal @ 59
I thought perris added the quatation marks, so I’m really not sure you guys disagree, do you? Aren’t yopu both saying the people who call themselves strict constructionists really aren’t and we should call ‘em on it?
Nope. It was in Thers original…which quite vividly stripped away their credibility…with a lot of snark.
jayt @ 7
The jury is in as far as I’m concerned: thumbs down.
egregious @ 65
Let’s try tjhis again. I spliced into your post I was quoting. Jeez I’m so computer challenged. And just what is this “diggs” stuff anyway? Better not tell me. I’ve been working on getting facebook going for about a month and counting.
No, just the mention of Menlo Park…… There’s one in NJ and I used to live in a town called Edison – near the Menlo Mall. I think it’s just the holidays making me honmesick, really. But that was quite a late night adventure. I think we have a Sand Lake Road where I am now. It’s weird.
cinnamonape @ 70
OK. My bad.
For those out ‘there’ who might be hurting, as we head into the holiday season, please know there are folks, like Lahoma, who care about you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMXSTiCNnss
I get a perverse pleasure out of watching the Fox News All Stars.
but today my favorite clown isn’t here tho, Charles Krauthammer is subbing for the Bloody Kristol.
It’s the only Fox I see all week.
Interesting facts coming out of the housing bubble:
18% of repeat buyers financed the entire purchase; meaning the proceeds from the sale of the previous home went into their pocket, not into the new purchase of the new home.
1 in 3 buyers put no money down; they financed the purchase 100%.
1 in 2 new buyers put no money down.
Really interesting segment on WJ about China’s tech & what they’ve done to U.S. with it, like showing they can shoot down space satellites.
Elliott @ 75
Which is that much more Faux Noise than I will see.
dakine01 @ 78
Can Krauthammer come out during the daytime?
pma @ 79
hmm,
perhaps they taped the show before the sun came up
eCAHNomics @ 57
Indeed. But the technique might work IF they actually had the appropriate data and MassSpectroscopy Devices to analyze the trace-elements within the lead. Batches would have to be consistant (which requires large sampling to assure this is true). Then there would have to be variation between batches established. And there would have to be assurance that there was mirroring in between batches…producing false positives. Lastly, one would have to be sure that firing the bullet didn’t alter the composition through the loss of gases through super-heating.
The testing of he batches and the bullets would have to be quite accurate…with very expensive Positron MassSpec devices.
UNLESS, one could get the NRA to retreat from their program of preventing bullets from having identifying markers on (in) them. One could require manufacturers to add a certain unique mix of trace elements into the bullets that were resistant to “burn off” and it might actually work. But I suspect that the actual efforts to this point didn’t simply because the statistical and scientific footwork wasn’t done.
The NRA wouldn’t agree to this, just as they blocked the Clinton-era efforts to put unique tracers in explosives after the first World Trade Center attacks, an effort that they also got the Republicans in Congress to block after Tim McVeigh (under the argument that McVeih didn’t use explosives that could have been traced…so it wasn’t necessary).
Of course, none of this makes sense that the NRA would be doing this to protect “Hunters Rights”. The only Hunters that I know that would fear traceable bullets would be poachers or those that take pot shots at rival hunters or domestic animals. And since when do hunters use TNT and plastic explosives? It’s seems to me that the NRA were doing this to allow future right-wing terrorists to wreak havoc against the “Black Helicopters” of the UN Blue Helmets and Clintonistas who were taking over the country. What do they have to fear if they aren’t intending to use explosives or weapons to commit a crime, after all?
Nonetheless, the current approach is such that some people may have been convicted wrongfully. But even worse. Think of how many people may have been exonerated when their bullets didn’t match up with the lead from those found on the scene?
Many people, not just Fox News viewers, don’t fully understand the need for impeachment of Cheney and then Bush.
I am writing a series of three articles that put forward the reality of that need in terms of world opinion, the crimes of this administration, and ultimately the danger of allowing this kind of behavior to continue unchecked.
This is the first.
http://willyloman.wordpress.co…..s-that-so/
Elliott @ 80
In any case, you might want to wear a little bag of garlic.
cinnamonape @ 56
you know, you’ve made excellant points
when we are discussing among like minds the quotation marks serve the purpose that you are talking about, and when we deconstruct a particular point among like minds then the tools you’re talking about work perfectly
however then we go and try these tools of deconstruction with people that believe the oposite that we believe…then the tools fail
you do make great points though I must admit
cinnamonape@81
Your description of what would be required to fix the “science” of analysis in lead in bullets sounds like a non-starter. Far too complicated to be done by law enforcement. After all, it took until the 90s for NYPD to do what they could have done with maps & push pins a century earlier.
As for bullet markers & NRA, you got that right. My hunter friends would not object.
eCAHNomics
I just ran into another classic example of what I was talking about yesterday under Ian’s post.
Thanks for the insight BTW.
all righty – I just published my first diary over on DKos on the CA ballot initiative fraud.
I’d sure like to see what’s happening with others…
OldCoastie @ 87
I’ve been reading about your exploits at Target. Way to go, woman! You are standing up for your principals and taking action and I am So Proud of you.
Twenty Gold Stars!
he will flee
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0610/S00308.htm
OldCoastie @ 5
Dang! Thought I was an early riser, but looks like I’ve slept in…
OldCoastie @ 87
Way to go! I’m not a kossack so I can’t recommend, however it’s great to see you do this.
I never published a diary over at the Big Orange but if I hadn’t read Vikingkingq’s, I probably wouldn’t have known to even look at what they were doing.
getting the word out seems to be the right thing to do.
OldCoastie @ 87
wow, that is a great diary!
comprehensive.
Go OC!
OldCoastie @ 87
I’m certainly keeping my eyes open!
cahuenga @ 86
Not sure exactly the point you wanted to connect that post to. On its substence, in July 06, anyone could have known that U.S. job growth in this economic expansion has been subpar, and that other determinants of consumer spending, like real wages, were a negative. Thus, the only support was rising home prices which could be borrowed against. I don’t remember the state of knowledge of subprimes at that date; think we didn’t know much about the problems back then. But sketicism, not enthusiasm, would have been the appropriate forecast.
These folks are talking about regional economies, and my comments relate to the national economy, so there could be some difference there.
sadly yes @ 89
The sooner the better.
Is this near the tri-border area of drug smuggling & SA AQ strongholds?
Beerfart Liberal @ 64
There were actually four recorded versions of “Talkin’ John Birch (Society) Paranoid Blues”.
It could easily be revised into one talking about Bush looking around for WMD’s (instead of commies)…and terrorists instead of communists. Wonder who would replace John Rockwell, though? Giuliani? Cheney?
“Well, i was feelin’ sad an’ kinda blue
I didn’t know what i was gonna do
The communists was comin’ around
They was in the air
They was on the ground
They was all over.
So i ran down most hurriedly
An’ joined the John Birch society
Got me a secret membership card
Went back home thru the yard
Started lookin’ on the sidewalk
Under the hedges….
[snip]
Well i quit my job so i could work alone
Got a magnifying glass like Sherlock Holmes
Following some clues from my detective bag
I discovered red stripes in the American flag
Betsy Ross!
Now Eisenhower is a Russian spy
Lincoln, Jefferson an’ that Roosevelt guy
To my knowledge there is just one man
That’s really a truly American
That’s George Lincoln Rockwell
I know for a fact he hates commies
‘Cause he picketed the movie Exodus.
I finally started thinkin’ straight
When i ran outa things to investigate
I couldn’t imagine nothin’ else
An’ now i’m home investigatin’ myself
Hope i don’t find out too much
Good god! “
[CHS notes: I’ve snipped this in the middle. Please don’t post entire poems and/or lyrics due to copyright considerations. Just post a snippet and a link to the original. Thanks.]
Here’s a Kagan/O’Hanlon op-ed in today’s NYT: Pakistan’s Collapse, Our Problem that suggests the neocons are going to need a much bigger military quite soon. I liked the part about securing Pakistan’s nukes in New Mexico.
OldCoastie @ 87
fabulous diary – recommended!!!
… one request from a fan (the fan would be me!) – would you include the story of your encounter (if it hasn’t already be written up somewhere besides in the comments here)? i loved it – made me cheer you out loud. don’t know if i’m the only one, but i love, love personal stories of people standing up and making a stink… especially in these days where too many people walk on because they don’t want to get “involved”.
Veritas78 @ 98
Words fail me. These guys are really completely f*cking crazy.
selise – uh… no, its not anywhere else. After all, I’m among friends here! If I need to, I’ll write more up on Kos, just to keep the issue on top.
Folks — for copyright reasons, please don’t post entire lyrics to songs and/or poems or other written pieces. And please do attribution as well.
Popping in to say howdy. Sick Peanut still, and momma’s a bit busy this morning. Hope everyone is having a good Sunday.
eCAHNomics @ 96
yes and the larget water supply in SA
he must be stopped like Eichman
OT, but I tried Christie’s Baked Apples and Gilliard’s Bread Pudding yesterday and both cooked, smelled and tasted AS ADVERTISED. Whoot! And they complemented each other as dessert.
Thanks Christie (and I miss reading Gilly, too).
(Holding out cup) MMMM, coffee?
PB and OC, can’t believe you guys are up already. OC, I’m not a cossak but dayum it’s a good one. Thanks, I’m stopping at my Target on the way home today.
Christy, hope Peanut is butter soon. Mama is good medicine. Take care.
OldCoastie @ 101
fair enough. just wanted to let you know how much i enjoyed (and was inspired by) what you did. you rock!
Whose not for a strict adherence to the constitution? Isn’t that what we have been screaming about for the last 7 years? Gimme some constitution Now!
As far as the word frame thing. The right with the help of such evils pricks as Frank Luntz figured out that the bait and switch of catch phrases and tag lines. Who bothers to read the meat… it’s the tag lines that mad ave get us salivating over. Healthy forests, clear skies all of them are exactly opposite of what they are doing.
Marshall McLuhan laid it all out in his books in the 60s and the entire push to control the message and the media began. By the 80s we got a second rate actor who was a racists and dolt and his shining city rubbish full of welfare queens in shiny Caddy’s.
Thank dog the likes of Naomi Wolfe who is really calling it for what it is… fascism disguised by a fig leaf democracy. And her namesake Naomi Klein who explains exactly how they do it.
But Americans don’t read. They watch tee vee, go to nascar, pop concerts, football and diddle with the cell phones and Ipods. It’s the good life to have an empty mind filled with 21st century distractions.
Were pretty much a nation of feudal serfs now in debt to the company store.
Help!
eCAHNomics @ 95Not sure exactly the point you wanted to connect that post to.
My point was that here we have two extremely well educated economists, Thornberg and Husing, looking at the exact same data yet developing diametrically opposing forecasts. It just makes it hard to know what to believe when you see this kind of spread.
The Neocons want empire and will stop at nothing less. This means we need to do up the military and walk right in and sit right down wherever we want around the world. It’s the neocon’s oyster and they will not stop until they have it all and it’s big stick all the way Jose.
cahuenga @ 108
Gotcha. Without doing any research my suspicions would be that the optimist has a hidden agenda, like a conservative think tank connection or something.
I knew nothing about foreign policy on 9/11. Being retired, I was able to study it in some detail afterwords. It didn’t take me a lot of work to figure out the ideological fault lines & have suspicions about some of the things I read.
Economics these days is also an ideological issue (though it didn’t have to happen), so you need to develop your antennae about that aspect of what you read.
Mauimom @ 1
Donna Brazile’s job is to be a willing punching bag for the republicans. She will not disappoint (the Republicans). She’ll ponder the rethug points and faithfully cede her position to them. Donna’s role is much like Allan Colmes’ role vis a vis Hannity.
She needs to go. She does more harm than good. (But that’s the idea).
hackworth @ 111
It’s the same role played by Alan Colmes on Hannity and Colmes. Ineffectual alleged liberal.
Our economic growth seems to be based entirely on available credit, whether it was the mortgage thing which bubbled the housing market or consumer credit in the form of plastic which everyone seems to be drowning in.
Credit is a house of cards/ponzi scheme and we can’t stop or it falls apart, like all pyramid schemes.
The sub prime and the larger mortgage game drove real estate up so fast, like the hi tech bubble it was like people printing money and then spending it on anything, and things which ultimately didn’t hold their value.
The only real value added comes from the application of labor and creativity, interest is a bogus way of creating wealth and it is doomed to ultimately fail… and will be witnessing it in the coming years.
The banks/feds are printing money now and trying to shore up the bad paper and inject cash into the economy to keep consumer spending. haha. But with no assurances that there will will a job to pay for the debt, consumers are going to be scaling back and that will also increase the collapse.
They are sweating up at the Ponza board rooms trying to keep the gamblers at the tables.
It’s going to get ugly.
SanderO @ 109
this is why they are trying to break the our armed forces, they are making sure they develope a force with our assets that answers to them and not America
we’re in tons of trouble
hackworth @ 111
To steal from Dororthy Parker:
If all the dumb Ds were laid end to end, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised.*
*Original is: If all the girls at Vasser were laid end to end, I wouldn’t be a bit surpised.
eCAHNomics @ 85
The FBI has used many other methods like this without adequate research data bases. One of the more notorious was “bite-mark analysis”. And many people don’t realize that fingerprint analysis was initiated with very low actual field testing and sampling. They were fortunate that the method actually does have low heritability and isn’t fraught with false positives from some people having identical patterns (though there have been criticisms about the use of the limited number of markers used to establish “identity”).
Fortunately DNA analysis actually had about a decade of use in anthropology before coming on board as a forensic tool. In addition, there were some odd cases where large samples were collected when it was initially used…the most famous being the incidents of rape-murder in England where almost all men in a particular community allowed themselves to have their DNA analyzed, with one exception. And then when he did provide it…it turned out he had submitted someone elses sample. His own sample, eventually collected under court order, was an identical match.
And DNA analysis has exonerated almost as many individuals convicted of some crime, based purely on witness identification, than have been convicted by it. Ironically, Barry Scheck, the defense lawyer who declaimed all the errors of DNA analysis at the OJ Trial, has used the SAME method to exonerate scores of wrongfully convicted.
Does anybody know when the Chris Matthews Show is actually on? I’ve tried to find it on MSNBC on DirecTV and all I’m seeing is crime scene retreads. Why can’t they put it on against the weird breather on CNN?
i’m with those who question how reliably dem donna brazile has become.
this is edwards’s chance to bust through — no other dem candidate riding the sunday carousel.
btw, the brownstein book is a waste of time. he perpetuates the false equivalence of moneyed republicans in power with the grass rootsism of the progressive blogosphere.
Elliott @ 93
I musta done something right – I’ve already got a provocateur telling me I’m wasting my time!
should the BUSHS control the majority of SA s water?
http://words-of-power.blogspot…..tance.html
Prairie Sunshine @ 117
check your local NBC channel schedule
cinnamonape@116
I’ve been wondering about fingerprints, so if you have a reference I’d appreciate it.
I did some fingerprint analysis in the 1960s when I was working in a cytogenetics lab. It was a side project related to our major work on gross chromosome anomolies. Turns out Downs Syndrome have much simpler fingerprint patterns than the population as a whole (arches rather than whorls & loops). Thinking back on what we were doing, we assumed an awful lot about what the rest of the population fingerprints were like. Now I was very young and it didn’t occur to me to ask for documentation behind the assumptions. It may have been there. But I’d like to see it now.
I suspect the rain makers are going to have to emerge from behind the curtain if they can’t get the damn government to lay over for their hegemonic agenda.
If the people get to express their will and the pols are not bought it may be time to stage a real coup and not a silent coup as some have alleged.
This government has proven that teflon is a quaint concept, it’s wizard of oz all the way now. Black is white, laws are just words on a paper except when you need to lock away the people. Oversight is like clear skies it means looking up and skyward.
It’s pretty amazing when you realize that almost this whole nation has been hypnotized by their tag lines and their need to be numero uno in the world.
We live the same thing the Germans did in the 30s. It can’t happen here… but my friends.. it has.
selise @ 99
i’m sure most here have seen sicko — which continues to be the best film of my year.
the great, simple point made about 2/3s of the way through: in europe, people don’t fear their governments. here, we do (and for good cause). we know how this happened. i just wonder if we can fix it.
Elliott @ 121
It’s on NBC? Thanks, I’ll look for it.
OldCoastie @ 119
Ha! Go, you ;-)
Some OT;
We all know that campaign red-meat rhetoric is de riguer, but that and their track record (ahem! Sen. Clinton) are about all we have to go on.
I cordially invite the supporters of Sen. Clinton to put up a clip of her smoking right-wing and corporate ass like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4rqysXGj0o
New thread! There But For The Grace…
Seems like a lot of the evidence used to convict is pretty gauzy at best. But the largest percentage in the prisons are black and it’s racism with the fig leaf of American justice stuck over it.
I think we have 2.4mm people in prison. And to think that 50 in this administration should be there and aren’t shows how blind justice really is. Don’t it?
Oh.
This candidate is incredibly electable.
How is Giuliani going to swiftboat him; by accusing him of making a lot of money by shredding corporate ass in personal-injury lawsuits? :o)
How much money do Republicans pay Donna Brazile to represent the Democratic viewpoint (throw the fight – Brazile, you’re to lay down in the fifth and you are not to get up – got that?) on these gasbag shows week after week?
OldCoastie @ 87
Old Coastie…did you get my email about the similarities between the signature collectors talking up a storm about “eminent domain” to you…and another up in Willamette, Oregon who used the same spiel about “imminent domain” to get people to sign Initiative petitions there.
The petitions had nothing to do with “imminent domain” in Oregon, either. And it was the same company, Arno Political Consultants, who they were working for!
http://wweek.com/editorial/3017/4853
http://www.ouroregon.org/cgi-b…..ARNOManual
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms…..-page.html
cinnamonape @ 132
Christy,
O/T Thank you so much for yesterday’s Pull Up A Chair post. It’s my birthday today and I did not get to read it yesterday due to the OSU VS. MICH game. (Sorry EW, I figured that’s why you left town, you knew the outcome…) So, I’m catching up this AM and have tears streaming down my cheeks from all the hilarious links. Love the Back Dorm Boys!
Was surprised many did not pick up on Bluestate’s link from Kos about impeachment. Found the link compelling and worth addressing but I am also concerned the timing is a distraction from FISA. However, I think we are all up for the multitasking on both concerns.
Thanks again for the laughs. Like Mr. Reddhedd’s left of France perspective! Glad he’s a geography wiz! Rudy obviously is not. No big surprise there. Besides, far, far left of France is New York! Hmmm…
well, I goofed that up, cinamonape – look for my response just before your links…
cinnamonape @ 97
Ooopsy! Here’s the link to the four different Dylan versions of Talkin’ John Birch Paranoid Blues
“Oh.
This candidate is incredibly electable.
How is Giuliani going to swiftboat him; by accusing him of making a lot of money by shredding corporate ass in personal-injury lawsuits? :o)”
Yep. Matter of fact, George “Ethics” Will is on it already: http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01756.html
eCAHNomics @ 122
As I understand it, the issue is not that fingerprints are very likely to be “unique” (or at least statistically so). It’s the fact that they have abbreviated down that uniqueness to 8-12 “markers”. In the hands of an unskilled analyst that might mean that the database could produce several false positives.
Unfortunately, I’m travelling abroad and can’t access my references on this…but I’m sure Googling around will find you the article. It was something within the last year that summarized the research that I read. Maybe in the New Scientist?
eCAHNomics @ 100
I guess they figure that Gov. Bill Richardson is the only reliable leader to keep them out of the hands of terrorists.
OldCoastie @ 119
Yeah! I saw that and immediate thought “concern troll”.
Which means a) you are being monitored, perhaps by Issa, APC, or the laddies who you tagged
and b) they are scared
~ both because of the legal issues that might block the initiative from obtaining enough signatures, but also because this shows the Republicans are just generally oily and untrustworthy.
Don’t stop publicizing this! It basically raises awareness about the true meaning of the Initiative, and makes people wary of signing initiatives without reading and assessing them first.
And the person that says you should spend more time working on local and state campaigns to “get people elected”? What campaigns are going on in California right now? I don’t know of any…even the Presidential primary campaigns are quite a ways off.
OldCoastie @ 135
Sent it to the mail address you gave. I also sent to the boatz email that you gave via yahoo…but it bounced back as undeliverable. Hopefully you’ll get this one. BTW it might be smart if people send “strategy” and “tactics” related posts via email when we want to avoid being surveilled by the Republicans and right wing.
“Don’t forget the classic
‘No Child Left Behind’
Which lied and sent a coded message to Evangelifacists as well.”
What was the coded message?
I predict this the is last appearance of John Edwards on Sunday talk show. In couple of months there will be Iowa primary. He will lose big time there. HRC or Obama will win and John will live happily thereafter in his 25000 sq ft home. You will never hear from him on poverty and health care and all the other issues that he pretends to care so much. In addition, he cannot run and win as senator because he knows he will lose in his home state. John Edwards is a phony. If you don’t believe me just look at his voting records when he was in senate.
Xanthippe@#137;
good link. Thanks for digging it up and posting it. Let’s look at EVERYTHING. :o)
but, to me, that’s pretty thin stuff, with which to tar Edwards.
I mean; having The Fortune 500 zillionaires shreiking about some trial lawyer’s corruption is nothing new. It’s THEIR ox that’s being gored. :o)
If the lawyers’ doing the goring broke the law, then they should pay, and according to Will, they’ve been indicted…with one (1) who was a fundraiser for John Edwards, having pled guilty.
Not good, but not a campaign wrecker, either, I don’t think.
Here’s George:
“The problem is not that democrats are “bought” by trial lawyers; the problem is that democrats, who see victims everywhere, are actually disposed to believe the narrative of pandemic victimization of investors.”
I’m sure the rank and file at Enron, just to mention the most glaring case, would be interested to hear that they are just part of a “narrative”.
I think most of us would agree that the “problem” (GEORGE!) is that the federal government, far from being a good watchdog over corporate honesty, has been spayed and nuetered (mostly, but not entirely, by the GOP) to the point that about the only check on these polluting, corner-cutting corporations, is dragging them in front of a jury, for their bullshit.
That’s why these fatcats are so eager to put caps on the settlements which juries can award defendants who win IN A COURT OF LAW.
George Will is toting the hod for these assholes.
I yawn; and I think that most american voters will yawn, too.
Call your next case. :o)
Sorry, AP: I think he may very well win Iowa, and if he does, then look OUT!
Because the boat is gonna be rocked, big time! “o)
And, coming from someone whom, it sounds like, may be a Clinton supporter (which supporters have been pounding on anyone who only insists in looking at the FACTS of HER track record on Iraq and some other issues, for their using “republican talking points”) is nothing loathe to point out the scintillating issue of John Edwards living in a large house.
This is not rocket science, AP. :o)
Corporate america; that is, the people who were instrumental in putting george bush in the white house, and whom have profited so very, very, handsomely from doing it, and whom are desperate to see the clusterfuck sustained for at least one more year, to ensure that the denouement of the misery falls happens on a democratic watch, will start shitting green nickels if Edwards wins Iowa.
If Clinton wins it, and really, even Obama (they like Hillary’s user-friendliness to big money, and I don’t think they’re terribly afraid of Obama’s) then, these fatcats, republicans or democrats, will light up a high-priced stogie, put their feet on the desk, and say:
“Aint democracy great?”
I invited the Clinton supporters to put up a clip of her getting after our corporate lords.
Got one for us?
Hey! I’ll settle for Sen. Clinton mentioning the WORD “Blackwater”.
(Now’s your chance; they’ve been getting a lot of negative pub lately, and just like pre-mid-term with the splurge, she might have discovered that they aren’t really part of accomplishing the mission that she’s never apologized for helping authorize.)
Tanbark @ 145
You are so naive in thinking that Edwards is not in the pockets of corporate America. He claims that he doesn’t take money from lobbyist but he takes money from people who hire lobbyist such as Hedge funds. Just find out who is the biggest recipient of hedge fund money…
I am happy that he lives in a big house and he has made lot of money for himself but my issue is he pretends that he knows so much about poverty and peoples issues. He always brings up that he was son of a mill worker and what not. So we are supposed to believe that he is cares so much about poverty. I never hear such a talk from HRC or Obama. I believe that HRC and Obama are much more genuine than Edwards.
In my world people like Gandhi or Mother Teresa have right to claim about knowing poverty and people’s issues. Even rich folks like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett can claim that they understand people’s issues because they have given so much to charity.
I support democratic party and whoever gets nominated even if it is Edwards I will support him unlike Edwards who took two weeks to decide on whether he will support HRC or not if she is a democratic nominee..
Hey Tanbark,
Check this link about titled “Is Hillary a corporate democrat? I encourage you to read all three parts.
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php
Did you watch the clip, AP?
He’s a mill-worker’s son, from small-town South Carolina.
His family NEVER had much money.
HE never had much money, until he won some court cases, and got large fees for winning even larger settlements for victims of corporations whom he had convinced juries that the corporations were responsible for some pretty terrible injuries to the people he represented.
When he, running as a political nobody, beat Lauch Faircloth in that N.C. senate race, he kept a Jesse Helms protege out of the United States Senate.
He’s not perfect, but I sat 15 feet from him a couple of months ago, while he spoke and then took UNPLANTED questions for 45 minutes, in Georgetown, S.C. and i think that when he’s expresses his outrage, that he means it.
What is Hillary expressing outrage about?
And can you post a clip of it, so we can see her do it, and decide which candidate is the most accurate in their outrage…which candiate has most accurately nailed the problems we face, and who’s to blame for them?
It would be nice if you could do that before this thread moves off the front page here. :o)
BTW, IF we’re stupid enough to nominate Clinton, I am certain that John Edwards will still support her.
AP, I’ll be delighted to talk about Clinton’s voting record, and I freely admit, that on most issues, she will vote on the progressive side.
But there is a vote that (and the years-long support for that vote) for me, and for a lot of progressives, cancels out all of the records you linked to.
This is not an election where funding the arts and humanities is going to win for us.
The issue on which the GOP is most vulnerable is not environment.
It is not “fair taxation”.
Is is not “health care.”
It is the war in Iraq.
That’s what we need to use, to win the white house and get lockdown control of the Senate and House.
And the supporters of Clinton want us to nominate someone who has NEVER apologized for her years-long support of the clusterfuck.
You would have us choose a candidate who would be going into a barroom brawl (which is EXACTLY what it needs to be!) with one hand tied behind her.
Not only does she not want to pick up the Iraq stick and beat them senseless with it, she wants to stay as far away from the stick as she possibly can.
NONE of Hillary Clinton’s votes mean anything to american conservatives. Not the “for” vote for the invasion.
Not the support for the surge.
Not her playing poodle and giving george bush the same kind of koolaid-boost to start a mid-east war with Iran, when she voted to name the Iranian Republican Guards a “terrrist” organization.
Independent and even conservative democrats will hang us out to dry, if we nominate her.
Is there any question in your mind of how republicans feel about her?
Take another look at that clip of the woman asking John McCain “How do we beat the bitch?”
THAT is the face of the GOP regarding Clinton, and there is not anything; never HAS been, anything, that she can do to change it. And the stupidity that she and her staff have shown as they tap-danced over to those people, who are, politically speaking, her blood enemies, and her stupidity in thinking that there would be political gains from doing it, is reason enough to laugh at the descriptions of her “political smarts”.
For me, that, along with her support for Joe Lieberman, and for her lending her presence and the dignity of her office to that FauxNews birthday bash, and for schmoozing and letting Rupert Murdoch hold a fundraiser for her, are howling good reasons to diss her, and to support someone else.
And here’s the capper, AP.
On the candidate poll on here a few weeks ago; out of 2309 votes cast on one of the best of the progressive blogs, Hillary Clinton got 236 votes.
John Edwards trounced her, and everyone else in the poll, with 998 votes—43%.
On the Democracy For America poll (the grass-roots progressive organization founded by Howard Dean) Dennis Kucinich won handily, with 32%, leading Al Gore, with about 25% and Edwards, who got slightly less than 16%.
Hillary Clinton got 4.2 percent…of nearly 120,000 votes.
That should tell you a little something about her “progressive” credentials.
dakine01 @ 44
In best Emily Latella voice: “never mind.”
TanBark,
I don’t think I need to provide any clip or write long essays to prove my point. For the last time all I would say that if HRC or Obama is nomimated as democratic candidate would you and John Edwards and all other Hillary haters that reside here and on dailykos would vote for. If not then we certainly deserve next president as Giuliani or some other rethuglican who will probably be George Bush on steroids…
AP; If your point is that Clinton has the political courage, and the intelligence, and the progressive convictions of John Edwards, then I would say that you DO need to put something up, long OR short, to indicate why you think that.
Because you certainly haven’t done it so far.
I don’t hate Clinton. As with most people of a liberal political persuasion, I used to be an admirer and a supporter of hers.
And if she’d had the honesty and courage to frankly and unequivocally apologize for her vote to help enable the bloody misery of Iraq (as John Edwards has done numerous times) and if she had shown the smarts to respect her natural progressive base, instead of slapping them in the face by pandering to the right wing, then I would probably still be a supporter of hers.
And so would a lot more of the progressives who, as those polls I talked about so unspinnably show, are clearly turning their backs on her.
xanthippe @ 137
Yer going to stand on that? By the WaPo? Please.
Futhermore, what’s Hillary going to say? Why do you suppose she suddenly dropped the “Rodham” from her name she made such a stink about when HER HUSBAND was the President? She’s got no “Hope, Arkansas” speeches to make because she’s a Republican and led that very privileged life. Please.
I won’t vote for her under any circumstances, I’m a Democrat.
Myrtle June @ 154
I’m very sorry Myrtle June. But your level of hatred for this pair is bordering on blood-hate. So Rudy or Huck or Mitt or Dog-help-us McCain is your choice.
Fine. You don’t like the Clintons. Keep emulating Rove in expressing yourself. That’ll show’em.
Tanbark @ 153
You still won’t commit to supporting a democratic nominee whoever that might be. Spoken like a true Edwards supporter…
I beg your pardon, AP. I’ve done that a couple of times. You just happened to miss the thread. :o)
Now, let me ask you a little question:
I think the decision to invade and try to occupy Iraq was a wretched, bloody, mistake, in which hundreds of thousands of people have needlessly died who were no threat to us or our troops, until we attacked their country based on a pack of lies and bullshit.
Do you agree with that?
Also, AP; as I’ve said, if Clinton wins the nomination I will vote for her, knowing that I’m casting a ballot for a republican lite candidate.
That leaves you with 2072 other firehounds who didn’t vote for her in the poll we had here, to check out. I can’t speak for them. You might want to get started soon. :o)
Sorry I missed everyone today– was out at Plum Island getting pictures of a Cattle Egret, a new life bird for me. Will post them once I’m done going through the 1700 pics I took today :)
AP @ 156
I support Edwards. A “true Edwards supporter” and I’ll support Hillary if she’s the nominee.
Simple.
I hope Edward’s starts a 3rd party
Tanbark,
Thank you for your support to whoever is the democratic nominee. I myself worked hard in 2004 to get Kerry and Edwards elected even though I strongly supported Howard Dean. I will as hard or more than 2004 for whoever is the democratic nominee. We are on the same team. There is no need to fight among ourselves. Once the primary is over we combine all our resources to get our person elected.