Late Late Sunday: John Edwards With the WGABy: Teddy Partridge Sunday November 18, 2007 10:02 pm |
Just because I’ve made my choice for President doesn’t mean I should ignore requests to play specific YouTubes, right?
I wonder if the folks who had the big tiff over Hollywood executives will show up to march with the WGA?
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 Sunday, November 22, 2009 5:00pm Eastern Chat with Barbara Ehrenreich about her new book. |  Monday, November 23, 2009 8:00pm Eastern Chat with Andy Abrahams Wilson, Producer/Director, about his new film. Hosted by Lisa Derrick. |
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1?
3?
excellent!
quatro
Nice going, Betsy!
FunnyD
nicely done with the zed and downstairs notification tex
OT..TexBetsy..I read that NetRoots will be in Austin in July…Where to stay at or close to the action.
Steve-AR @ 7
First they need to announce where they’re holding it. But my couch is already spoken for.
Boy, everyone went to bed at once!
Saw this video today, Teddy. Powerful.
Hiya Teddy,
That was a furious thread you had there last…
Steve-AR @ 7
Netroots Nation.
Price goes up $75. after November 30th.
loohoo, they seem to do that on sunday nites around this time.
Loo Hoo. @ 9
He is speaking truth to power more and more. (I hope it’s not just because he sees the nomination slipping out of reach.) The media seems quite intent on their determined outcome, but I think Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina may hold surprises. It’s my only hope.
Christine Edmonson @ 10
Lotsa seriousness today at the Late, all good. But I’m glad Michael Grbich had some lightness for us today.
And don’t you think Michael’s last name sounds like what Old Lord McCain says when he sees Hillary Clinton’s picture?
heavy emphasis on the rrrrr when he does it teddy
TeddySanFran @ 14
Hah !
McCain has dropped into irrelevancy faster than a celibacy vow at the Playboy mansion (no, I’ve never been there, why do you ask?) *g*
The bribes, I mean the surge is working!
Thousands of new Sunni volunteers have made common cause with the Americans. About 72,000 such civilians have joined the effort, American officials said, and 45,000 each receive a $300 a month stipend from the Americans to help with the effort.
More lies…..
-GSD
The Austin Hilton is where a block of rooms will be reserved. $132. per night for a standard room, plus tax.
OT…
With several private companies launching businesses to provide customers with unprecedented access to their genomes’ secrets, legislation protecting people from genetic discrimination is more timely than ever. But Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Oklahama) is single-handedly stalling federal legislation to do just that.
The Senate passed earlier versions of the bill twice before, but they were blocked from coming up for House floor votes. This year, the House passed it by a bipartisan landslide, but Coburn has held up the legislation in the Senate, saying it could place too much strain on businesses.
wired
Harry Reid honors piece of crap
tom Coburn’s hold on this bill but blows off Dodd’s hold on FISA..Jeebus
TeddySanFran @ 13
John Edwards has been walking picket lines for some time now … Iowa & New Hampshire will vote for him in a landslide !(prediction from a Canuck)
GSD @ 17
45,000 x 300/month will buy a lot of weapons and ammo that will end up being used against us.
GSD @ 17
We know where the SCHIP money is going at least.
-GSD
Loo Hoo. @ 18
Not the greatest part of downtown, but should be just fine. Any of the downtown hotels should be fine.
Petrocelli @ 20
Darling, I hope that you are right.
GSD @ 17
Betcha they start demanding payment in Euros soon …
TexBetsy @ 8
It’s at the Convention Center is what the Democracy for Texas folks told me. There’s lots of hotels nearby. It probably makes sense to wait to reserve til you see if they get some block rates for one or more of the hotels.
The key thing to know is that the rate to register for the event is $175 til Nov 30, then it goes up to $250 and keeps going up in increments as time goes by.
http://www.netrootsnation.org
Petrocelli @ 25
707
Christine Edmonson @ 24
I still hope that I wake up to hear that Gore has thrown his hat in the ring … he’d be the only person Edwards would be VP for, IMO …
Christine Edmonson @ 10
It was fun, wasn’t it? But not so much fury. Nice friendly conversation.
(((((TSF)))))
You rawk!
FunnyD
Steve-AR @ 7
Streets in that area are numbered. The hotel is 5 blocks east of congress ave on 4th street, so if you know the address of any other hotel, it’s pretty easy to calculate distances.
Petrocelli @ 25
or Venezuelan Bolivars
epu’d — check this out.
I went to this fantastic event this afternoon. Very cool!
http://www.aaimaustin.org/thanksgiving.html
Canucks can attend Netroots Nation, Petro! Hasn’t your wife been dying to go to Austin? And haven’t the girls wanted to be cowgirls just forever?
Loo Hoo. @ 18
Thanks..next to the convention center..looks good.
When I decided I would like to go to Chicago..the cheapest room was $500/night..I didn’t want to go that badly.
Loo Hoo. @ 33
Forget them … *g* … I grew up on Louis L’Amour novels and would love to spend some time on a Ranch …
Petrocelli @ 35
At least 20 miles from the hotel till you get to a ranch.
greenwarrior @ 26
oops! looks like i was caught echoing!
TexBetsy @ 36
Crawford’s not all that far. Just saying.
putting a quarter in the jukebox
Feeling like an idiot. I THINK I put a video in the first post here. I see a box the size of a youtube video, but no actual video content. Anyone else see it? Anyone know how to correct this?
Suzanne @ 39
Do you have a string on that quarter, too, Suz?
FunnyD
Breaking news:
Chuck Norris and Mike Huckabee are coming out!
tsf bold
greenwarrior @ 38
Lawd ah- mighty … I want to watch Cowboys punch Cows, not harvest Brush ! *g*
punch? petro!
Petrocelli @ 16
But like a cadaverous zombie he keeps rising from the crypt. The MSM can’t get enough of him!
There was the McCain Mom Moment (not as fatal as the Macaca Moment) but still, then the non-response to the “How do we stop the b*tch” Q&A; and his subsequent “I respect Hillary but hate her”, to todays “It’s healthy to make people angry”…probably sung on the same McCain’s Greatest Hits CD as “Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran”.
Now the Son of Cane has propounded that he’s “ Anti-War?“.
Didn’t know that? Well, it’s really nuanced. Apparently it’s because he felt that Rumsfeld didn’t send enough troops in at some point in the dark depths of time…before he bega sucking up to the Bush Administration, Jerry Falwell, Oral Roberts, and just about anyone he thought essential to move him on his last chance to occupy the Oval Office throne.
Except McCain did Support The War Strategy. His critique of the War Strategy was “fleeting” and limited to actually insisting on MORE TROOPS being sent in. He amazingly says that the current surge isn’t “his strategy” though, so it’s hard to know what the heck is flying though his mind.
TeddySanFran @ 42
spew.. oh teddy, that just begs to be picked up and ran with
Funnydiva2002 @ 41
nope, only the one for the swear jar
greenwarrior @ 38
We could give a hearty shoutout to the schrub! I just made reservations at the Hilton, and they do have the group rate on record. 512-482-8000. Doesn’t look like that large a hotel.
Teddy, you and Patrick are going, right?
forget it. i got it. don’t copy the v= part. duh!
TexBetsy @ 44
Hmmm ? Louis L’Amour used the term …
tex, let me know when you are ready for me to check it again
The MSM is slapping the cadaver of John McCain screaming ‘breathe, breathe’!
They’ll bring him back to life yet, creepy American Gothic moment with his even more cadaverous mammy nothwithstanding.
-GSD
Suzanne @ 51
i think it is ok now
GSD @ 52
Truly sad to see what he’s reduced himself to …
GSD @ 52
That had to have been designed to make McCain look youthful…
Loo Hoo. @ 33
Quickly…The gates!
;>)
How far is the Hilton from the Bats??
GSD @ 52
big business wants him because they know they can control him – he is, after all, a bushbot who sold his soul
TeddySanFran @ 42
But then there are the True Believers who apparently wouldn’t accept that Huckabee has found a “new man” since losing 200 pounds. They simply won’t accept that he and Chuck have come out.
“It probably doesn’t convince anybody,” he acknowledged.
Steve-AR @ 57
6 blocks
Here’s my $0.21 for the jukebox ! *g*
G’ nite all … gotta get back to my goal(s) …
Love & Hugs !!!
P.
TexBetsy @ 60
What is the Bats?
Petrocelli @ 50
cow punchers,
cowpokes,
cowboys
Petrocelli @ 61
Hugs, Petrocelli. Next week it will only be 19 cents.
TexBetsy @ 53
yeap – now that didn’t hurt too much did it (laughing) glad you launched video
we have a million bats that summer under a bridge in central austin. they fly out at dusk to look for food and fly back at sunrise. many people watch.
TexBetsy @ 60
Excellent!!!
darkblack @ 56
that is funny
TexBetsy @ 66
Cool!
Steve-AR @ 57
easy walking distance. they live under the congress street bridge. which is just south and west of the convention center. and they come swarming and swarming and swarming out at dusk. it’s worth seeing.
Average salary of Hollywood writers is $200,000. Average salary of American family is $48000.
They are not hurting…
Loo Hoo. @ 69
and they eat like a kajillion tons of mosquitoes every night
AP @ 71
gotta link to go with that assertion?
cinnamonape @ 59
I am waiting for someone to look closer at Huckabee’s weight loss. He go a lot of attention for diet and exercise. I have heard that he may also have had some, after usual working hours, surgical help.
TexBetsy @ 66
Is that the bridge to the 15th century that leads to the Cheney Castle perchance?
-GSD
Loo Hoo. @ 48
Unlikely — for a number of reasons. I have no use for Texas (yes, I know Austin isn’t in Texas) although my stonemason great-grandfather’s initials can be seen in some blocks used to make the Capitol Building. I suppose I’ll go there sometime, but I hope I didn’t miss my chance during the Ann Richards administration.
Otherwise, though, it’s a non-union facility, which I think bodes ill for the nominee of our party appearing. I think the Netroots Nation bought themselves a stupid pre-DNC headline: Nominee Snubs Bloggers Over Non-Union Venue.
After all the work this particular blog has done to build bridges to the labor movement: by welcoming a labor blogger (Tula Connell) aboard; by supporting the nurses in New England; by marching with the writers in Hollywood; by organizing with immigrants’ activists in Illinois against Rahm — it seems pretty foolish to attend a convention in a non-union venue. Especially after the excuses for McCormick Place’s badness were supposed to be forgiven because the YearlyKos organizers “had to pick a union venue.”
But mostly it’s because I imagine my interests will be quite divergent from Netroots Nation’s next year. I’ve little interest in supporting the organization and little interest in watching the organizers suck up to TradMed and TradPol again like I watched this year.
ymmv
greenwarrior @ 70
looks like tonight’s my night to echo.
GSD @ 52
I sure wish the clip Jon Stewart played from Maria Shriver’s Potential First Ladies’ Get-Together would get more air time. Something Mrs Romney said to Mrs McCain about their both being blonde and their husbands getting them confused — the look on Michelle Obama’s face was priceless! Stewart made a key party joke.
Before and after Mike Huckabee.
WOW Loo Hoo! Quite a transformation.
AP @ 71
Half of WGA members make less than $5000 a year.
It’s not whether they are hurting, it’s whether they are being paid for their work. Which they are not. Having been told twenty years ago that the digital era was too new to set their royalties (”we’ll be bankrupt” screamed the owners) now they are told the royalties were set twenty years ago and be happy with it.
No one is paid royalties for web-isodes, since they are “promotions” even though ads are sold alongside them.
Please do some homework instead of reading right-wing talking points, AP. You’ll learn the difference between “average” and “median” right off the bat.
Suzanne @ 73
Of course it’s the mean, median and distribution of income. It’s the old, there are five people living on my street..their average income is $220,000 per year. I make a million they make 25k each.
yellowdog jim @ 68
It’s no laughing matter. Before you know it, those wily ‘Canooks’ will be singing, dancing, performing standup comedy, directing feature films, displacing good American talent, corrupting the purity of network entertainment and putting the Homeland at risk.
Laugh now, cry later
;>)
Bummer, Teddy.
Loo Hoo. @ 79
From Buford T. Justice to Barney Fife……he’s a real Aweshucklebee.
-GSD
Loo Hoo. @ 79
bookmarked for later use, thanks!
TeddySanFran @ 76
I wasn’t there Teddy. What were they doing with TradMed/Pol?
darkblack @ 83
And spending their freaking Canadian dollars and getting half again as much for their money. It’s just paper…
Watch it Darkblack.
That term Canuck can make grown men cry.
-GSD
TeddySanFran @ 76
I’m not sure that you mean by TradMed and TradPol, but from context I suspect I agree.
“Average salary of Hollywood writers is $200,000.”
that so?
see http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/naics4_515100.htm
more like $50,130 mean annual.
Having Matt Bai of the New York Times co-moderate the PrezCandi debate was one example of the attentiveness given to TradMedia; their appearance on many, many panels was another. In my view, Netroots Nation has a top-down aspect that is surprisingly apposite from what you’d expect from an organization centered around, well, the netroots.
TeddySanFran @ 92
I noticed this as well.
Loo Hoo. @ 88
The nerve! After years of wafting about their gaily colored tickets with a bunch of fops heads on it, and expecting good American legal tender back during their cross-border looting.
GSD @ 89
Alright. Snowback, then.
;>)
darkblack @ 83
dang.
should a built a wall
or something
Suzanne @ 73
Sorry I was wrong about top 500 writers who are also on strike. They make about average 5 million a year.
The title of article is “At 200 k a year would you strike?
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertai…..amp;page=1
i did not go to ykos 1 or 2 but picked this up from those who did attend those events:
ykos1 was small, kinda trashy, held in vegas and was much more freewheeling, and reflective of the media seeking US out.
ykos2 was big, flashy, shiny, in a corporate convention town and center – and reflective of the netroots seeking out the media.
TeddySanFran @ 92
that is really weird. we see MSM on TV hosting debates and what a travesty that is. we don’t need it at netroots nation, which is, by definition, not that. weird. damn.
AP @ 96
have you seen the responses between the time i asked and your return to the thread with the link?
yellowdog jim @ 95
A big honkin’ wall, with some of their heads on pikes mounted into it…As encouragement to seek more welcoming climes.
;>)
Suzanne @ 99
Whats your point? Respond to my link
Maybe this Matt Bahai fella is a prophet?
-GSD
AP @ 101
As moderator of this thread, I will – when I get time – and I repeat, did you read the comments by other commentors regarding your original assertation?
darkblack @ 100
well, okay.
suppose the heads should be smiling
darkblack @ 100
I’m keeping this for a future time when we of the Commonwealth are trawling through the long, long, lines of Merkin refugees, deciding who to take.
AP, we usually encourage posters to hang their asshats at the door before entering.
-GSD
Pakistan to Bush.
Bite my schmeckle.
-GSD
GSD @ 106
Suzanne @ 103
Fine I have no use for such a forum anyway. You will never see me here again.
AP @ 96
The article you linked to states: ‘Some of the so-called A-list writers make more than $5 million a year, $400,000 a week for a rewrite of a film in trouble,’
And continues:
‘…but for every Paul Haggis and for every Tina Fey there are thousands of writers you will never hear of.’
Nowhere is the word ‘average’ used, nor is it implied that all or ‘most’ of the top 500 writers in the WGA make that amount.
What was your assertion again?
sorry you have problems dealing with the truth ap
persiflage @ 105
Commonwealth? Isn’t that like socialism?
;>)
Suzanne @ 110
S/He can’t handle the truth!
now now… remember, attack the message, not the messenger.. lets not turn this into an ap feeding frenzy
TeddySanFran @ 78
note to me: must find video.
i had a completely different impression.
i thought it was all between michelle and the other spouse, to the tune of “taking the wrong husband home” as if by accident (?) and michelle did a “what if?” take, which was great …
night all
pain free sleep wishes tex
thanks suzanne
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) – Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Sunday that OPEC’s members have expressed interest in converting their cash reserves into a currency other than the depreciating U.S. dollar, which he called a “worthless piece of paper.”
Iran’s Ahmadinejad and Bush have something in common, one thinks the US dollar is a worthless piece of paper, the other thinks that way about the US constitution.
-GSD
blissful rest to you, betsy
‘night, betsy. sleeep well.
GSD @ 118
‘I Am Wedgened‘
;>)
good one db hehehehe
Suzanne @ 113
That is a nice sentiment.but there are a lot of messengers that I would like to see doing hard time.
yellow dawg,
are you going to netroots naation here in austin?
GSD @ 102
Bahai gardens here,
here,
and here.
Steve-AR @ 122
me too but boosh and the dark cheeney do not comment here so that rule don’t apply in those circumstances
GSD @ 107
What’s a bully to do?
Was that a nanny, nanny, nanny at 108?
i wonder if pakistan’s suspension of their constitution and ‘detainment’ (arrest) of thousands was the shiny bright thong (h/t LHP) that distracted media attention away from burma and its arrests, beatings and killing of monks non-violently protesting their regime.
Loo Hoo. @ 127
Well, they seemed awfully concerned that writers might not be up to the task of walking a picket line while pushing a wheelbarrow full of loot.
;>)
OT: I’m somewhat shocked by this from Jack Balkin, one of my heros:
Fine, Jack. If you believe that, let’s make suicide bombing a capital offense, and see how well it works.
Hey, darkblack? What’s keeping you from expressing yourself?
Loo Hoo. @ 131
The long commute.
;>)
wigwam, it is my experience that the only reduction of violence provided by the death penalty is that that particular offender will no longer be repeating the offences.
i’m not so sure anyone stops and thinks “if i do this, i could get lethal injection” before doing a drive-by gangland shooting or before knocking off a cheating spouse caught in the act
ok pups, time for me to drag my tired and sore body to bed… i spent way too much time on my feet this weekend but it was most definately worth it
g’nite all
Most capital offenses are not crimes of calculation, i.e., economic crimes. They’re mostly crimes of passion, and crimes of crazy. And the prevalence of such crimes is lower in nations and states that don’t have the death penalty.
Some time ago a sociology professor told me that once upon a time Britain had public hangings for pickpockets, but had to discontinue them because too many of the public were getting their pockets picked at such events. It was a great story, but now I wonder whether he made that up.
Night, Suz. And give Token a hug!
G’nite, Suzanne.
AP @ 101
ABC is the masters’ voice in this strike. It’s like getting your news from the Gazette-Bulletin of Owners.
I wonder, wigwam.
AP @ 108
Yay!
(hugging token as i exit – stage left)
Suzanne @ 129
Laura on pearls and diamonds:
greenwarrior @ 123
i guess so.
the thought overwhelms me actually.
uh,
yes.
i’m going.
i feel the critique about the tradmed versus the bloggers, “netroots” was well reported in the blogs about chicago.
i can hope that word was heard and the sucking up to the corporatist media will desist.
they are the owned slaves to cheneybu$hco’s best friends.
i wish our city’s convention center was a union shop. nothing i can do about that now.
but, i’ll get to see the (almost?) whole cast of FDL?
with zero transportation nor lodging costs, i have no choice. i’m there.
should we volunteer?
Suzanne @ 142
g’nite Suzanne & Token (clditw;9#c)
Paul Krugman on Republicans and Race.
Now, about the Philadelphia story: in December 1979 the Republican national committeeman from Mississippi wrote a letter urging that the party’s nominee speak at the Neshoba Country Fair, just outside the town where three civil rights workers had been murdered in 1964. It would, he wrote, help win over “George Wallace inclined voters.”
Sure enough, Reagan appeared, and declared his support for states’ rights — which everyone took to be a coded declaration of support for segregationist sentiments.
yellowdog jim @ 144
it makes me crazy: here they are coming to austin and i’m scheduled to be in california at healing school thru july 19th. i could attend sunday (which ends at 2pm), but naturally i don’t want to pay for 3 1/2 days when i attend 1/2 day. normally, i would have volunteered and i probably still will in some way. i’m hoping there’s some way i can just come sunday.
reading the remarks about MSM, if they do the same thing again, it might be better for me not to be there, given my low level of tolerance for going over to the dark side.
unless, of course, it’s the darkblack side.
TeddySanFran @ 78
note to me: must find video.
found
it’s 51 minutes.
… ooookay.
greenwarrior, I’m sure you could just come on Sunday without paying. It’s just kind of a good bye breakfast and not a big deal, if it’s the same as last year. Lots of people are leaving, so the crowd is not big. Too bad you’re in California when the big event is in your area.
Loo Hoo. @ 149
{{thanks, loohoo.}} i’m going to see what i can do to get there.
all right. my bed’s been calling to me for some time now. g’nite still-awake pups.
yellowdog jim @ 148
it’ happens at about 5:30 minutes in.
they don’t seem to include the shot of Michelle’s face that i recall.
But, TSF was right: the exchange is between the blonds.
Loo Hoo. @ 140
Speaking of wondering, any idea what happened to KLSD? Here’s what the Wikipedia says about possible replacement:
I critise Hilary and Obama the most because they are the front runners.
I think that they might win therefore I try to change their minds the most, however much my one voice in the comments can change things.
I am not a GOPer who swallows and repeats the entire party line no matter my personal doubts.
I will support the eventual nominee when there picked but even then I’m not going to stop trying to change their minds.
I know its hard to listen to criticism of your choice but your choice is better served if they address the complaints now.
But hey feel free to disagree with me argument sharpens both our minds. We need to practice addressing the criticism we know will be coming from the MSM nomatter who we choose.
yellowdog jim @ 148
Shorter
sorry i’m late to the party tonite, but here’s the account of skippy walking the wga picket line at nbc, where he saw the top of john edwards’ head.
Things Come Undone @ 154
Very well said.
And on that note, I’m out. Thanks for a wonderful evening, folks. Got goals?
wigwam @ 153
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KLSD
This war we are fighting for the Soul of America is one of indivduals with a 1,000 voices, minds and opinions united only by the idea that we want a better world and we are willing to sacrifice a little to get it.
The GOP on the other hand is one mind Karl’s, one voice, repeating all the same talking points on all the channels.
If you don’t believe me tell me the difference between Tweety, Scarbrough, Glen Beck, Pat Buchannon, David Brooks etc.
They all talk about the same thing, on the same day, and somehow they all have the same EXACT talking points.
TeddySanFran @ 155
excellent.
and much funnier.
thanks.
i needed that.
i tried to watch the plain version.
what is maria shriver’s problem anyway?
wigwam @ 153
I don’t know what happened to Air America. I haven’t been able to find it anywhere. I know that it was announced that the sports crew would take over, and that there was a rally at the station that included Francine Busby. Obviously, it didn’t do any good. Couldn’t have Air America this close to the election I guess.
TeddySanFran @ 157
Thanks Ted I’m trying to be peaceful, cause I feel guilty about all the bombs I throw. I want people to understand that I want my voice to be heard. I want to make things better.
Sometimes I even try my hand at constructive solutions. But I feel nothing will change unless we admit that there are problems and try and address them.
Loo Hoo. @ 161
our air america station (KOKE 1600AM) went to all spanish format last month.
still listen online.
Things Come Undone @ 159
You’re absolutely right. These right wing folks are even invited to the White House for little get-togethers. Hope they enjoy it, cuz times running out.
yellowdog jim @ 163
Yes, but we’re not the people who NEED it. We get our news online, most people just hear the junk. That’s what bothers me so much.
Today, two of my favorite bloggers took Thomas Friedman to task for his editorial in Sunday’s NYT: Glennzilla and hilzoy.
Apparently, they have problems with Friedman’s suggestion that Obama accept Cheney as a running mate to give himself some Tony Soprano credibility. They argue that Cheney is a horrible person, but that’s exactly Friedman’s point, Friedman’s talking “intimidation,” the horribler the better.
The problem with Friedman’s thesis is that Tony Soprano types have no credibility in the hood. And the problem is that going along with them and playing their game gets you killed. Just ask Saddam Hussein. He did everything the Cheney gang asked. He fought the Iranians and held them at bay. He got rid of his WMDs. Contrary to popular opinion he ultimately opened his doors to inspections, much as he didn’t want his opponents to know that he had gone along with us and gotten rid of them. Ultimately, he did everything that was asked of him. And look what it got him.
Meantime Musharraf has built nukes, run madrassas, set up the Taliban, and now hosts Osama Bin Laden, and the U.S. keeps sending him more aid and military training, etc. With that record behind him, there is no way that Cheney can intimidate anybody out of building nuclear weapons.
Gosh, got here late and missed the rich writer *ssholes flap. AP, most writers don’t make a “salary” at all. They manage to seel a script now and again, and get what they can bargain for, be that WGA minimum or $5 million.
If I sold a script once for $350,000 ten years ago, what would you say my annual “salary” was? Sorry you aren’t here to read this AP (good riddance) but you don’t know what you are talking about.
yellowdog jim @ 160
Well, one problem she has is her husband.
Loo Hoo. @ 165
Over the past two or three years I’ve gotten a lot of information from Air America stations. In fact, that’s where I found out about FDL.
I particularly like Thom Hartman. But a number of their folks are quite good. It’s something to listen to going to and from work. (But way too many commercials.)
wigwam @ 153
sorry my previous comment wasn’t helpful.
this looked interesting though:
“The progressive talk site is at AM1360KLSD“
yellowdog jim @ 170
Used to be, now it’s sports. I enjoyed it too, Wigwam. Randi Rhodes, Ring of Fire, Stephanie, Rachel…
Loo Hoo. @ 165Yes, but we’re not the people who NEED it. We get our news online, most people just hear the junk. That’s what bothers me so much.
point taken.
feel the same here.
kevin martin is working at the fcc to make it even worse.
yellowdog jim @ 170
Not any more. They’ve gone over to an all-sports format. Per the Wikipedia entry on KLSD, there’s a chance of some replacement Air America outlet in the SD area:
Oops. It’s that time. G’nite all.
goodnight, AK, wherever you are:
*POOF*
What is HD radio? Night wigwam.
yellowdog jim @ 175
Hello, AK!
The GOP group mind does not believe that man can be Altruistic they read Ayn Rand in college rather than Mencius.
Why because they were selfish people looking for a philosophy that would justify their own lack of morality. If the only way man has left to evolve is morally then there are still Neanderthals walking in the cities of man!
They gather in groups trying to fit in and be the same, laughing at others for being differnt.
Only instead of acting as and for the group the higher ones act in their own interest secretly believing that their Patrican selves are more equal than their plebe followers.
They think they follow the Realpoltic of Bismarck yet their real choices are always convenient and without any self sacrifice for themselves.
Unlike Bismarck there true rolemodel is Kaiser Willhelm who lost WW 1.
They think that they are Nietzschen Super Men above morality.
Just because they have no morality.
Never mind the True SuperMen chooses what he/she will believe by being informed of the options.
Conforming to what the Group says, what the Bible says, what other people say the Bible says is the exact opposite of being a Super Man.
Pretending to have morals when you have none just makes you a clever predator, who must be brought down.
Loo Hoo. @ 164
I’m sure Tweety has an RNC Blackberry so he could get the latest Karl Rove talking points direct. God I so want the White House emails, especially the ones to the press and Judy Miller.
” In various publications, Ben Stein has been flogging the meme that because the sub-prime mortgages are such a relatively small percentage of the total US economy, it’s really not all that problematic.
It’s a rather foolish, overly simplistic analysis that ignores far too many other elements of the sub-prime slime. The pyramid of Derivatives built on top of them, for instance. It reminds me of an argument you might get into with a child: “But daddy, the economy is so big and sub-prime is so small…”
I never bothered to respond to that meme, other than to get annoyed enough to note that malignant tumors are small relative to a person’s body weight.”
“In contrast, most owners of mortgages are highly leveraged, including banks, savings and loans, broker-dealers and government-sponsored enterprises such as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, according to Fed data, which don’t count hedge funds.
This distinction makes a huge difference. If, say, these leveraged players account for $200 billion of mortgage-related credit losses, and they lever up 10 times, that hit results in a $2 trillion reduction in credit, Hatzius theorizes. “
” This would be a shock equal to 7% of total debt. Such a credit contraction could produce a large recession, if it happened in a short period such as a year, or a long period of sluggish growth — say, over two to four years, he adds. “
http://seekingalpha.com/articl…..dit-losses
The important thing is that government data does not count Hedgefund losses. The next most important thing is that the supposed wisemen of the business world like Ben Stein are ignoring the problem.
Watching Business *cough* News is like watching a Prozac commercial everything will be fine just take the pill and drink the cool aid!
The UN says 77 killed 100 wounded many were school kids 2/3 were killed by Afghan lawmakers bodyguards firing after a bomb attack.
My question is were these bodyguards Blackwater Mercs?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200….._aftermath
Good to see that up on the front page here TSF! :D
Great thread to all, btw. Especially, the nn08 “top down” observations. I noticed that in general but nice to see some other views on it as well. Austin is a wonderful city, I just don’t want to ever ever set foot in texas again. I have some family there too :D
I was so glad to see John Edwards out in support of the writers. I don’t even like or watch most all of the shows (except Lost), but I sure as hell support their cause!
I expect Gore to endorse John Edwards before Iowa. Gore will not run and the least he can do is come out and explain the detrimental cost of writing him in. I’m loving the place that he’s in. He’ll be far more effective where he is in transitioning our economy from arms/war/oil based to businesses involved in constructive endeavors. He’s right where we need him to be and he needs to come out and endorse a candidate very soon. That should be John Edwards so we can move forward to a new period in our history, not continue to relive the past.
G’nite :-)
Petrocelli @ 20
I think so too!!! :D
morning!
Musharraf’s new Supreme Court just said that he could run again. Petitions challenging this ruling were withdrawn because the lawyers who filled them were not in Court.
Perhaps because they are in jail? Musharraf has been jailing lawyers in order to regain stability in his country.
Yet Musharraf much like Bush is afraid to send his army after Ossama, who I at least thought was the threat to stabilty in Pakistan.
When Bush talks about the enemies of freedom being on the march do you think he means our’s and Pakistan’s army?
When Bush leaves office the first thing the history books will say is he let Ossama go because he wanted Iraqi oil more than he wanted Justice or even Revenge for 9/11.
How can we keep letting Bush ignore our dead! Bush has been given years to do something about Ossama but he has done nothing! Since Bush won’t avenge our dead then lets go home! I would love to see any GOPer defend Bush’s war for oil after we point out that nothing has been done about 9/11 and Ossama.
“Chief Justice Abdul Hameed Dogar dismissed three opposition petitions challenging Musharraf’s victory in last month’s presidential election, saying they had been “withdrawn” because opposition lawyers were not present in court.
Dogar turned down a request from one of the petitioners to postpone the hearings.
Opposition figures had said they expected little from the reconstituted court, which is loaded with justices chosen by Musharraf.
Many believe the general imposed the clampdown and purged the former Supreme Court because it was likely just days away from invalidating his continued rule. Musharraf has long said he would resign as head of the armed forces, but stay on as a civilian head of state.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..s/pakistan
Morning Selise!
Morning! selise, did you ever get an answer as to the arrogance issue with the Saturday Book Salon author?
Dear heavens. Could be 10,000 dead in Bangladesh.
Loo Hoo. @ 185
no. but my question really wasn’t about saturday’s book salon.
Why do we support Pakistan who sells nuclear technolgy to Libya and North Korea?
Why do we support Saudia Arabia when Al Quieda fights to spread their Wahhabist religon all over the world and funds their Wahhabist schools in places like Pakistan?
15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi. The price of oil is sky high and the Saudi’s have the most oil in the world.
If there is any one country that could pump more oil it would be them. But we protect them as they rob us blind. Bush acts like a battered wife bailing her husband out of jail after he beat her.
Just what kind of drugs are the Neocons on nothing they do makes sense.
Iran wants nuclear power we think they want a bomb so we want to invade.
But Pakistan actualy has sold Nuke tech to North Korea and Libya but they get a pass?
Pakistan won’t let us go after Ossama but we give them money! Ossama is trying to take over Pakistan but still Musharraf protects them.
Children this is your foreign policy on drugs. To see the economy on drugs turn the page and look at Alan Greenspan mumble some “Greenspeak ” incoherently. Notice drug ussers like to read Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman and (Nietzsche upside down).
i don’t think the saudis can pump more oil. welcome to peak oil.
Maybe Pach meant this. In the sixties and early seventies, people were divided, as we are now. The hippies (us) were involved in lots of counter-culture issues/beliefs which the other half were not. Even though we went about our lives, we never had a crisis to bring us together again until now.
Perhaps Pach is suggesting that now there are people of our generation who were never hippies, never owned that special “take me to the river” sense, but are now turning left as a matter of going with the political flow rather than with conviction and passion. And that in the process, they are attempting to belittle the purists only to elevate their own self-worth. In other words, maybe they never got it, they’re trying to get it, but they can’t forget that they never really got it when it counted. And by god, they’ve got it now!
Loo Hoo. @ 190 -
i don’t know – that’s why i asked…. but i think that pach is the only one who can answer. it really isn’t that important – was just curious to know what he meant.
Bush is still doubting Global Warming http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes……ef=science
I wonder if Bush is aware that the insurance companies are raising rates on homeowners because of Global Warming?
“Insurance companies faced with record claims after recent active hurricane seasons and predictions of more destructive storms ahead are reducing their risks by walking away from hurricane-prone areas in states along the Southeast coast and Gulf of Mexico or dramatically raising premiums, Environmental Defense found.”
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap…..94977.html
” Homeowners’ insurance rates have climbed between 20 percent and 100 percent since Katrina two years ago, the report said, citing Robert Hartwig, senior vice president and chief economist of the Insurance Information Institute. Increases on the lower end are in relatively low-risk coastal areas like coastal New Hampshire, and the highest increases are in high-risk areas like coastal Mississippi, Florida, and Louisiana. “
Hey if Bush says he doubts Global Warming then how come he is letting the insaurence companies raise rates?
Any FirePups in Louisana or Florida want to file a lawsuit demanding that either Bush acknowledge Global Warming exists or he should stop the insaurence companies from charging Homeowners so much.
selise @ 189
The Saudis were saying recently that if needed they could pump more oil.
Either they were lying or they were playing us. I agree Selise Peak Oil theory would suggest they were playing us.
Good Morning! This is quite an interesting discussion. Since OPEC is discussing replacing the value of oil with the euro, do you think that the Saudi’s have enough control to prevent this?
If you borrow $200 billion how much money, stocks, realestate etc of other collateral must you have to cover a bad loan before the bank pulls the loan?
Granted the Banks don’t want to reposses these loans because then they would be stuck with this declining in value Mortgage paper. In a market where home foreclosures are already driving down the price of homes.
Meaning sure the banks own your house but they are unlikly to sell your home for the same price they sold the loan to you for. This would mean they would have a loss appear on their balence sheet.
The Hedges bought your mortgage from the bank at lets say at 10 to 1 meaning for every $1 in assets they bought $10 worth of loans which because the foreclosure rate is going up the value of your mortgage is going down. If the banks take back the Paper from the Hedges they own your home again and they don’t want that.
Are the Hedges going to be able to make payments on their loans? No bank wants to use Mortgage paper as colletral at face value for some Hedge fund corporate takeover deal.
Plus the value of the dollar is declining so foreign takeovers are now even more expensive as foreign banks want even more colleteral as protection against further drops in the value of the dollar.
So Hedges can’t do the deals that make them money ussing Mortgage paper as collteral at the value they originaly intended. The Hedges need to make a certain amount in order to make payments on their 10 to 1 leveraged loans.
Once one hedge can’t make payments the Banks will panic and demand payment from all the Hedges they have been carrying. Or Bush will bail them out.
JPL @ 195
Well, Marcy has the take on it that is realistic.
Loo Hoo, Thanks. When do you sleep?
I’m on vacation! Maybe I’m nocturnal.
OT: delurk: David Shuster on Morning Joe this am rather than Joe Scarborough.
Love FDL, thanks
JPL @ 195
Yes but thats OPEC the Saudis can’t stop Kuwait who has already stopped pegging their money to the Dollar, or the United Arab Emirates which is thinking about it.
I think another Arab country or two might have dropped their dollar peg.
Good morning, pups. It’s Cohen and Krugman in the NYT today. Roger Cohen says he would like to invest hope in the Annapolis Middle East peace conference. Really, he would. Mr. Krugman addresses the issue of Republicans and race and says we shouldn’t avert our gaze at the issue of race because we’re unwilling to tarnish Ronald Reagan’s image.
http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/
5 will get you 10 that some time this week (or next, he may have to have a mid-life crisis reminiscence about Thanksgivings gone by) Bobo will don his armor and ride to the rescue of his favorite icon. They seem to be having a hair-pulling match over at the Times about St. Ronnie.
The coffee, tea and hot chocolate are ready, and the biscuits are out of the oven. If you’re hungry at lunchtime come on over and have a bowl of the beef stew I made yesterday. I’ll be at work, but I’ll leave the key under the mat. Have a good Monday.
Thanks Marion. Krugman could have painted Bobo into a corner with his comment that the issue isn’t whether or not Ronnie was racist but that he used a racist political strategy to win.
jang @ 202
i hope the delurking bug has bit and that we will be seeing more comments from you!
jang @ 200
Hi Jang. It’s a wonderful community. Welcome!
JPL @ 205
Well, that might work if Bobo weren’t a true believer. They don’t let prickly things like facts get in the way. It’s the political version of religious fundamentalism. Facts? Facts? We don’t need no stinkin’ facts…
JPL @ 197
no. even if they want too. i think maybe they could have when they were capable of big swings in output production. but, that doesn’t seem to be the case any more.
disclaimer – that’s what i think, but i’m really out of my depth here. hope eCAHNomics will show up to explain it all.
Lots of Google news/rummors about countries selling their dollars China, Korea, Russia.
Or are thinking of delinking their cash to the dollar like Kuwait already has, Saudia Arabia, Sudan, Quatar, United Arab Emirates. Lots of rummors but I’m positive I linked about some other arab countries that quit their dollar peg already on an Ian post.
But now I can’t find the article it was a Britsh publication I think.
The thing is all these articles are new something has spooked the markets maybe it will blow over or maybe not. We should at the very least watch this story.
China is the one country that could tank our economy. I sure miss the good old days when Europe owned our debt.
AP @ 96
And do the math…if the top 500 writers (folks like Steven King, Michael Crichton, the Charles brothers) make $5 million a year…and the average is about $50K…that means there has to a huge number that are making well under 50K. In fact it suggests that there are thousands making $15,000/year or less. Poverty level wages in Los Angeles or New York City. It means that a lot of these people are unable to survive without taking on second or third jobs.
And many are likely not “working writers”…those that are active at the current time. If they were receiving residuals they actually might be making enough to pull them off unemployment. And pulling unemployment, although it is definitely money they have contributed toward, is best not utilized when they could be getting money that they justly deserve for their own artistic creations.
JPL @ 211
If OPEC starts pricing their oil in Euros and the dollar keeps dropping then the rise in gas prices could destroy us. But on the plus side this would make at least 10% of the 30%ers switch sides.
“There are many other examples of Reagan’s tacit race-baiting in the historical record. My colleague Bob Herbert described some of these examples in a recent column. Here’s one he didn’t mention: During the 1976 campaign Reagan often talked about how upset workers must be to see an able-bodied man using food stamps at the grocery store. In the South — but not in the North — the food-stamp user became a “strapping young buck” buying T-bone steaks. ” Krugman has Bobo up against a wall:)
Good Morning!
ON WASHINGTON JOURNAL
Monday, November 19
7am – Newspaper Articles & Viewer Calls
7:45am – Jennifer Rubin, Human Events, Online Columnist
8:30am – Newspaper Articles & Viewer Calls
9am – John Hughes, Bloomberg News, Transportation Reporter
9:30am – Zanny Minton Beddoes, The Economist, U.S. Economics Editor
‘Morning everyone. I watched ‘Sicko’ last night. We are a nation of fools. We are being gouged, cheated, ripped-off and bankrupted. And yet, this corrupt system remains. And too many Americans still fear ’socialized’ medicine.
Things Come Undone @ 195
Business-related insurance has gone through huge increases since 2001. My railroad crossings (for fiber optic cable, either on poles or plowed under the right of way) are literally out in the middle of no place. Just to find them is difficult. We are required to have insurance by the railroad companies — in 2001, the bill for those each, was about $200 a year. After 9/11 — $2000 a year each and going up.
The insurance companies did not care WHERE the crossings were – or even if a reasonable person could figure out that if our operations guys could not find them, the chances of a terrorist finding them was in the “none and none” range – 9/11 seemed to give them the license to make all policy holders pay the freight for the losses they incured in on 9/11.
solai @ 216
Morning, Solai – I’m in total agreement with you there.
On a weather note – how did you guys do up there? We got 3 inches of heavy wet snow down in the Southern Tier.
TeddySanFran @ 13
He’s been speaking truth to power for quite some time now. You’re just seeing it more often.
A friend of mine is a writer. He rec’d an emmy once (as a group).We all celebrated. Last time I saw him he said he was pretty much broke. May have recovered by now. Currently writing movies so he has the potential for a big payoff if a script is purchased. It’s a very ‘iffy’ profession. Rich today, broke tomorrow. I keep looking for him on the picket lines. Wishing him the best.
Toby Wollin @ 218
No snow here. Potential for freezing rain tomorrow morning, then turning to rain.
Toby Wollin @ 217
Are these railroad crossings in Florida or any state affected by Global Warming? Or are they in states like New York where you might expect terroism?
I beileve you but railroad crossings? Al Quieda is big time planes flying into buildings attacking railroad crossings seems beneath them.
Besides how much do railway crossings cost at $2,000 a year wouldn’t it be cheaper to risk it think of the savings in ten years if insurance wasn’t required.
solai @ 216
Any Democratic Presidential candidates with a Mike Moore approved healthcare plan? Ending the War and Healthcare are my 2 big issues.
AP @ 96
You do realize, don’t you, that ABC is one of the entities against whom the writers are striking.
Elliott @ 215
just want to say thanks for giving us the morning line up….
wigwam @ 136
Actually it’s true. and Dickens
http://aler.oxfordjournals.org…..ct/4/2/295
And noted in both Shakespeare’s play The Winter’s Tale , where the cutpurse Autolycus observes,
… every lane’s end, every shop, church, session,hanging, yields a careful man work
as well as
Dicken’s
Time to sign off but have a good day all!
JulieWaters @ 224
I saw that headline at abcnews.com. I was furious. They also had a headline when some auto workers were on strike that said ‘Striking to protect $60/hr wages’. Unbelievable slant.
aw gee thanks selise, not exactly the comprehensive hearing list from Congress ;)
Elliott @ 229 -
i hope it’s not a competition *g*
p.s. i have this week off – congress is in recess!
Back to ‘Sicko’: If you haven’t seen it yet, you must get a copy. People have mentioned before that there’s a fear of getting more depressed by reading/seeing more scary news. This isn’t that kind of movie. You will be glad you saw it. If we can get a healthcare system (like most industrialized nations) things will improve dramatically.
selise @ 230
When does Congress come back?
solai @ 229
I’ve always loved this post by Scarecrow on Sicko-
Sicko: Ask the Right Question First
Things Come Undone @ 222
These crossings are in the middle of no place in Upstate New York. As for “risking it” – we don’t have a choice – to have that insurance and provide a certificate of same to the railroad companies is a requirement of the crossing agreement. They would not allow us to even BE there without it.
Mornin’ all!
Tweety on Mornin’ Gab pontificating: we gotta look more seriously at these second tier candidates instead of givin’ ‘em a pass…cites Huckabee’s surging in Iowa and Huck’s blase redbait attitude on second amendment. What about gangs of kids killin’ kids in Philly?
Word to Tweety: how about looking more seriously at all the candidates, instead of “power rankings” and diamonds or pearls, or it’s a Hillary-Obama horserace, and pollings of whichever poll it suits you to talk about.
Sees ‘68 all over again. That we can agree on.
TeddySanFran @ 143
Not really very many diamonds or pearls from Myanmar…mainly Rubies and Sapphires.
Well the Bush’s have to start to look vaguely that they are on the right side of something…and a “voluntary” ban on “blood rubies” finally gives them a chance to sound that they care. But for years they didn’t do a damn thing about Myanmar. And they haven’t really pressured ASEAN in any way.
To add a little historical depth to this issue…Papa Bush did nothing about the trade in “blood diamonds” that supported the wars in Liberia and Angola, nor the apartheid regime in South Africa…and Laura’s husband did nothing about the “blood diamonds” during the war in Sierra Leone. Well at least he didn’t care until he learned that bin Laden was possibly obtaining cheap blood diamonds and selling them at a profit abroad. Then he finally decided to act….but by then the war was almost over.
solai @ 232
i think the house of representatives will be back in session a week from tomorrow (tues, dec 4). the senate is scheduled to have a pro forma session tomorrow, but i don’t know when they will be back to work.
this is from checking the daily digest (scroll to the bottom)
Morning Gab discussing Novakula’s column now. And how process, process, process.
Hey, Novakula — put up or shut up. Today.
And where’s Scar? Job-hunting already?
Good morning everyone. New thread upstairs!
We have snow on the ground here!
brrr
Things Come Undone @ 154
Bravo. But I think all the front-runners, including Edwards, deserve criticism on issues like Iraq, Iran and Israeli-Palestinian policy issues.
Edwards, for example, wants to pull out all combat troops but leave a substantial number in Kuwait…to attack Al Qaida over the border and to prevent ethnic cleansing and sectarian violence.
I hate to say that this actually means that Edwards is going to keep combat troops in Iraq. Because there is no way that any practical operations can go on that would effectively deal with al Qaida without establishing forward bases in Iraq. This isn’t the sort of thing where troops can “commute in” every morning and punch out at 5PM. He may not call where they stay “bases”, though. Maybe he’ll call them forward operating staging areas.
And to deal with ethnic cleansing or secular conflicts would require a lot of boots on the ground for extended amounts of time.
So in reality, there is not gonna be much distinction between Edwards and Hillary’s and Obama’s plans. If they really want all US troops out hey have to stop holding the Iraqi militaries hand and simply say…”it’s now your game”.
And both Edwards and Hillary have repeatedly used sabre-rattling against Iran, and Edwards indicates that he will do nothing to pressure Israel to negotiate with the Palestinians, Lebanon, Syria, or anyone else.
Prairie Sunshine @ 236
I really hope the ‘68 reprise is not so. That was the year that one of the most liberal candidates ever, Hubert Humphrey, lost to Richard Nixon due to Democratic Party schisms.
selise @ 189
I read that Book salon thread and only saw the issue become contentious when someone raised Todd Gitlin’s comments in a video about Nader’s impact on the 2000 election.The commentator said that Nader’s campaign was directed exclusively at non-voters who would not have voted either for Democrats or Republicans. Gitlin said that the analysis referred to was flawed.
I never picked up that Gitlin was being particularly arrogant toward bloggers, progessives, netizens, etc. Nor did I see him say anything about that particular group, as a whole, lacking historical reference. And I don’t think he was patronizing. He didn’t pander to what people wanted to hear. His book would be expected to step on the toes of many on the left because it details what he believes (as a former President of the SDS) were the strategic and tactical errors that led to the rise of the neo-Conservatives and the Blue-Dog control of the party.
He directed his comment toward one commentator, not those commenting in general. I could see that those who supported Nader, and feel very strongly that Nader was right about “there isn’t any difference between the Republicans and Democrats” and “Vote your dreams, not your fears” might be upset at his comments.
But I would agree with Gitlin that Nader’s very use of such slogans was designed to draw away voters from the Democrats. He wasn’t after all saying, “Yes, there are differences between the Democrats and Republicans…but neither choice satisfies that great mass of people ourt that who aren’t voting”. Or “The Greens offer a third, better, option!”
I’m not saying that Nader, and even more so the Greens at large, weren’t also trying to register non-voters and discouraged voters. The Democrats were also making a major effort to do this as well. But I do think that there was also a deliberate effort to appeal to Democrats by making their candidate appear unpalatable, unelectable, and indistinguishable from George Bush.
cinnamonape@ 242 Leaving any troops behind in Iraq is for me the same as keeping the war going I’ll try attacking this point more in the future.
Toby Wollin @234 Its the little injustices that we loose sight of when everybody goes big picture we need people like you to hammer these points repeatedly.
Where is Bush when business is getting screwed?
From your personal experience we can build a bigger web of shared experience.
We just need to research and keep brining up this point and hope the Talent or the MSM listens. At the very least Late Late Night regulars will learn something.
TeddySanFran @ 81
Thanks for the post Teddy. And thanks for correcting the misinformation out there.
As we all know when candidates go anywhere they bring media with them. John Edwards knows this and chose to bring the media to the WGA strike. The WGA needs as much publicity as possible so it saddens me that the other candidates have desserted them. I hope they step up to the plate and show that they too will back American workers in the fight against corporate greed. As a Democrat I want to see all of our candidates walking the picket line so that the WGA strike gets the coverage it deserves. I know they are busy with their campaigns but standing up for workers is important. Where are they?
Sometime in mid-December, or sooner, God, would I love to see Al Gore give a passionate speech endorsing John Edwards.
It would be the biggest kick in the ‘nads to george bush and the GOP that anyone could deliver. :o)
This year, of all years, a third-party push will be a godsend to the GOP.
In fact, I suspect that Lou Dobbs knows this, and if he jumps in, he could pull enough pissed-off independents and angry democrats, plus some hate-mongering conservatives who like his racist immigration rants, to throw the election to Giuliani.
I just read an interesting piece about the election on Znet (not familiar with this site) that you guys might want to read.
Establishment Politics in “Rebel’s Clothing:” Corporate Power, Populist Pandering, and the Ironies of Identity in the Democratic Presidential Race
2008 Campaign Report
by Paul Street
It was very thought provoking
Things Come Undone @ 245
What about in Kuwait?
Here’s some little known caveats in Edwards plan.
We must show the Iraqis that we are serious about leaving by actually starting to leave, with an immediate withdrawal of 40,000-50,000 troops and a complete withdrawal within nine to ten months. We should leave behind in Iraq only a brigade of 3,500 to 5,000 troops to protect the embassy and possibly a few hundred troops to guard humanitarian workers.
Withdraw Combat Troops within Nine to Ten Months
Edwards believes we should completely withdraw all combat troops from Iraq within nine to ten months and prohibit permanent U.S. military bases in Iraq. After withdrawal, we should retain sufficient forces in Quick Reaction Forces located outside Iraq, in friendly countries like Kuwait, to prevent an Al Qaeda safe haven, a genocide, or regional spillover of a civil war.
Take Additional Steps to Stabilize Iraq
Edwards believes we should intensify U.S. efforts to train the Iraqi security forces.
http://johnedwards.com/issues/iraq/
So a brigade in the country- up to 5000 troops…to protect the embassy and “humanitarian” missions (reconstruction).
A rapid-strike force just across the border in Kuwait with sufficient forces to “to prevent an Al Qaeda safe haven, a genocide, or regional spillover of a civil war”. If the embassy requires 5000 men imagine how large this force would be.
And then there will also be an unstated number of military “trainers”…apparently an increase in those to speed up the training of the police and Iraqi Defense Forces.
CinnamonApe, I fault Edwards, JUST like the rest of them, for not speaking the simple truth that no good ending for us is possible in Iraq.
But the problem is, people don’t get elected doing that, and I don’t give a shit WHO you are.
They get elected by saying, or implying, or just aurally emanating the idea(*g*) to the voters:
“I can fix this.” and then, convincing them of it.
To his credit, Edwards isn’t claiming THAT. Like the other democrats, he understands that making Iraq safe for the Fortune 500, is off the table; but I think and hope that this year, there is a yearning in americans to have SOMEONE speak the truth, even if it’s unpleasant.
That, to me, would be leadership. Let’s see if anyone has the courage to do it.
BTW, what’s your choice for a plan to get us out? And I’m not asking that with a big dose of snark attached to it; I’m just looking to see if anyone has an idea that will work to reduce the likelihood of even bloodier chaos than we see now, when we do start to bring the troops home.
Because, IF Edwards, or anyone else, pulls 50,000 troops out, it will mean that most of the rest of the coalition of the rented, especially, the Brits, the Poles, and the Aussies, will not let the door hit THEM in the ass as they hustle through it.
It will also mean that the lid will be at least partially off in Mosul, Fallujah, or Ramadi, and some other “pacified” places, and when that happens, I don’t see any indication whatsoever that the “gains” can be sustained.
Seriously, what do you think?
Al Gore goes to the White House soon as the Nobel Prize winner where little boots has to congratulate him. LOLOLOLOLOL
Now THAT will be a good photo-op. :o)
cinnamonape @ 242
Not necessarily. Your statement indicates you KNOW what’s going to happen. You don’t.
It has yet to be seen, despite your feeling of certainty, that al Qaeda types would stay in Iraq once US troops pull out. If they’re there to fight us, then they’ll leave too. If they’re there to try and take over Iraq, then the locals would likely take care of them.
You’re assuming too much, IMO.
I guess if you make assumptions the right way, then all the differences can be taken out of the picture, then everything is the same. Black is the same as White if you just pronounce them in French as blanc and noir (both mean ‘no color’) — all the same.
That’s pretty much what Edwards and all the REAL anti-war crowd want to do. It’s not entirely clear what Hillary wants because she does her triangulation waffling thing and leaves everybody confused.
What sabre did Edwards rattle? All I recall him saying is that Iran supports terrorists, is a destabilizing force in the Middle East and must be dealt and not ignored.
Do you mean to say he hasn’t indictated he would do those things?
There’s a big difference between saying someone has indicated something and saying someone hasn’t indicated he wouldn’t do something.
cinnamonape @ 251
Um, 5,000 probably.
It’s a big embassy. Our biggest in the world.
BTW, would you specifically argue we should remove every single troop from the area of Iraq and all bordering countries?
How responsible would that be?