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"During our debate in Las Vegas on Thursday, we heard Senator Clinton rail against the politics of 'throwing mud.'
"At the very same time, in Washington, Robert Novak was publishing a column in which he reported the following: 'Agents of Sen. Hillary Clinton are spreading the word in Democratic circles that she has scandalous information about her principal opponent for the party's presidential nomination, Sen. Barack Obama...'
"The item did not identify these 'agents,' nor did it reveal the nature of the charge. It was devoid of facts, but heavy on innuendo and insinuation of the sort to which we've become all too accustomed in our politics these past two decades. If the purpose of this shameless item was to daunt or discourage me or supporters of our campaign from challenging and changing the politics of Washington, it will fail. In fact, it will only serve to steel our resolve.
"But in the interest of our party, and her own reputation, Senator Clinton should either make public any and all information referred to in the item, or concede the truth: that there is none.
Oh yeah, Robert Novak. I'll get right on that.
I didn't buy it last week when rumors were circulating that Obama was push polling against Clinton and Edwards in Iowa, either.
I smell a much bigger rat.
Update: Digby concurs:
Robert Novak was once a real journalist but after the events of the past few years, it's safe to say that he no longer can be considered anything but a Republican operative, specifically a Rove acolyte who basically works for him. He has more than proven his loyalty. This rumor, especially coming from him, should never have seen the light of day. MSNBC is running with the story like it's 9/11. It remains to be seen if it has any legs among the rest of the mainstream press. But I think it's fair to say that they will, at the very least, "store such incidents in [their] minds and then use them to interpret major incidents when they occur."
We don't know exactly what happened here, of course, but Democratic campaigns should know better that to ever use Robert Novak to try to score points either way. His item, (just like Rove's from earlier in the week) was a twofer, virtually designed to make both candidates look bad --- and, frankly, both of their responses only reaffirmed that impression.
(photo by Steve Schwartz)
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Zed?
I smell the Clintons, plain and simple. They stink.
Rattus rattus Rove
Jane!!!!!
Checked my bank account & left sprinkled some thanks yous & donations around. It’s getting to be that season.
Who gives a crap what Robert Novak says?
Now that’s an inspired sign in the photo.
Now back to Shock Doctrine.
I caught something about that on This Week this morning. The general consensus was disbelief that the dems were leaking to Novak.
After reading Rove’s bile in Newsweek, I can see him spreading his poison everywhere once again. He’s probably in a better position now than when he was in the White House. If the Democratic candidates fall for it…
I wish they would all agree to attackattackattack the Republican catastrophe overwhelming us. Whoever does it best gets to be our candidate. Instead, we’re playing Rove’s game. Disappointed in Obama for taking the bait.
all those crocodile tears when Rove left the White House
cleter @ 5
Unfortunately, it appears that Obama is idiotic enough to give a crap what the Novakula says. I guess he’s just too young and naive to have known that another name for the Novakula is “No Facts.”
Veritas78 @ 9
Although I agree with you, the MSM would have labeled him guilty for not fighting back.
left dc in 72 @ 2
So I can infer that you think Rovian tactics couldn’t be at play here… That’s pretty generous.
I mean, Novakula isn’t just some shill, right?
newtonusr @ 13
Won’t it be cute? The Clintons will play like the schmucks they are and blame it on Rove or whomever.
Veritas78 @ 9
The disastrous(for the gop)outcome of the 06 election has cost him a lot of credibility. Just keep reminding him to have his daddy check his math homework.
How about if Obama had attacked Novak, instead? “How dare you smear my opponent?” has a strong nuance to it.
I am not sure where Rove fits into the political scene. Is he still a player or did ‘06 relegate him to a Donna Brazile type position? His comment that Hillary is “tough and forgets nothing” should scare the shit out of the wingnuts.
I loved Hillary’s response.
Nothing Novak writes should be viewed as anything other than a shill job for some unstated Rovian agenda.
He’s a criminal, a liar, and has zero credibility.
Obama could gain a lot more traction by saying that, instead of being a dupe and using the opportunity to attack Clinton.
Loo Hoo. @ 17
Yeah really cute, blame it on Obama too. But still set the smut out there. No denial.
OT, but relevant to republican vileness, has anyone seen/read about the ballot fraud effort reported by Old Coastie?
Nothing on Calitics as of this AM.
I like to think we had a action going there and were protecting the Dems through it.
Sorry to be OT but I need something else to think about after this Novak thing.
HL
I must say — you bloggers have much more patience than I do. You know certain things, but can’t get frustrated with those who continue to buy into this type of BS.
(It’s bad enough for me to hear, “I hate Bush — why can’t we have REAGAN again?” I am not kidding — I have lost friends. At this point in my life, I figure, “Life’s too short to waste time on imbeciles.”)
Seems to me that Obama took the bait. If he felt the need to respond he didn’t have to attack Hilliary since he states
Just because a less then crediable shill fool for the right says it doesn’t mean it’s fact.
JPL @ 13
Ding! Dems cannot win by ‘assuming’ these are dirty tricks from the repukes and making that a reason to ignore them. Our collective experience tells us dems have to fight back, as Obama has done with dignity. And it wouldn’t hurt to say … “hmmm, just where does novakula *usually* get his scoops, anyway, just sayin’ y’all.” Which is exactly what Jane is saying.
If Hilary can’t stand the heat … well, that’s fine by me but I’m not a fan.
As long as we don’t believe Novak and Rove I don’t see this story hurting Obama. Its when the MSM picks up this story that worries me.
We need Democrats to confront Tweety and Wolf and say why do you repeat GOP talking points as topics of discussion?
Karl Rove likes to spread stories about Jon McCain having African American kids. Novak likes to out CIA agents. But the MSM still repeats everything they say. What the heck ever happened to fact checking!
As far as I’m concerned the GOP is scared of Obama and thats why Novak and Rove are trying to discredit him. The MSM discredits itself when they repeat this.
Sorry to go off topic …but EPU’d from downstairs and this is important for those of you in NC:
Today I am less concerned about judicial elections than I was yesterday. Judges are elected in NC and one of my best friends from college has chosen to run for the NC State Supreme Court.
Suzanne is a law professor at Wake Forest and the expert on family law in NC. There is currently no one serving on the state supreme court who has any expertise in this area.
Suzanne Reynolds for Supreme Court
Suzanne in her own words
That she has chosen to do this gives me newfound hope for our judicial possibilites. I cried from joy last night when I learned she’s running. She is simply the finest combination of intellect, character and kindness I have ever know in one person.
NC firepups — we need this woman on the bench.
BlueStateRedHead @ 20
Both Obama and Hillary could score points by attacking Novak and Rove. The future lies there, not in attacking each other.
My Friends,
It’s frigging “The” Math Karl Rove feeding this shit to Novakcula.
Novakcula motions his bony fingers over his word processor, producing objects that resemble words.
Novakcula transmits these objects, and we read them.
Sometimes we believe them.
But we don’t believe any of it. Because, Novakcula, you and Rove are BFF and we ain’t that stupid.
This is the Novak/Rove virus. Destroy it.
Just another gig Karl is going to have to give up after the 5 million white house emails are turned over by the NSA to the Congressional Investigatory Committee looking into the judicial attorney firings scandal.
Another Bush White House Lie: The E-mails
Glad it wasn’t Ann Coultergeist, seen enough of her smearings, at least Karl is a known divisive reicht-wingnut.
Congrats karl, enjoy it while it lasts…until the indictments and trials begin for obstruction of justice, conspiracy to defraud elections, not to mention illegal warrantless wiretapping, treason in outing covert CIA operations during a time of war, organizing the illegal ‘iraq war’ invasion and occupation, torture and war crimes and manipulating intelligence based on lies.
Loo Hoo. @ 17
Loo Hoo, did you read Rove’s News Week piece? His comment that she is not friendly and centrist like Bill is a good recommendation. The way that I read his opinion was that Hillary “is a radical lefty ball busting bitch and she forget nothing. We are in deep shit if she wins and need to lawyer up.”
I don’t think America is as bent out of shape about uh “indiscretions” as it used to be.
Let’s say someone has something on someone.
Big f’ing deal.
Big deal inside the Village, but out in the heartland: who’ll get me my health care, dammit?
left dc in 72 @ 15
Right. The evil ClintonSmearMachine, fully ramped up and churning out filth. Sounds about right, if you’re giving Rove and Co. a pass of being the destroyers on the political system. Preposterous.
Say, wasn’t it KKKarl Rove who was fired from Bush Sr.s campaign after a smeer campaign against his opponents had been leaked to Novak back in the late 80’s?
Exactly, Ferris. Rove is back, unhumbled. I’ll bet Hillary zaps back at Obama, and then Rove has done his job — to sow dissent among Dems.
Please, someone tell me that both candidates have enough sense not to fall for this crap. Nothing the Fat Rat would like better than to have them start trash talking each other. Makes it sooo much easier to promote one of the Repugs if all the dirty work has been done in the primaries.
utahgirl
Obama needs to counterattack hard on this. Rove and Novak have very low approval ratings with the 70%ers its a if they hate him then we like him kind of thing.
Its like running against Newt after Clinton’s impeachment trial.
Obama does have an oppertunity is he smart enough to use it.
At this point, Hillary should say “This is Novak’s Republican disinformation coming straight from Karl Rove, and I’m not going to be a part of it.”
Steve-AR — will you contact me so I can send you an email?
Veritas78 @ 36
That would get her painted as whiny. A simple “consider the source” should be sufficent.
As if we needed a reminder, Karl Rove’s raison d’etre is to destroy those who oppose the GOP and his clients. He is a functioning sociopath for whom no tactic or strategy is out of bounds. That he is no longer physically in the White House or nominally on the GOP payroll does not mean that he doesn’t continue in the same roll as before. He is just less visible, which, like Cheney, makes him more ominous.
Newsweek hiring Rove is like the Saturday Evening Post hiring Hieronymous Bosch instead of Norman Rockwell to paint its cover art.
FreedomOfInformationAct @ 29
That’s why I can’t believe Newsweek hired him. His article is piss poor too.
Did they deliberately Forget his being fired in 1992 from Pappy GHW Bushs campaign? I wonder, GOP scrubbing at work again?
Rove’s Political Obituary
http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin.....eline.html
1973 — Rove became chairman of the College Republicans. During his time in Washington, D.C., he became a special assistant to Republican National Committee Chairman George H.W. Bush and met George W. Bush. “A part in the Watergate saga, On August 10, 1973, as a protégé of Donald Segretti (later convicted as a Watergate conspirator)[6], in the midst of the Watergate scandal, Rove was the subject of a Washington Post article titled “Republican Party Probes Official as Teacher of Tricks.” The article, which was sourced to tape-recorded conversations, reported how the 22-year-old Rove and a colleague had been touring the country giving young Republicans “dirty tricks” training, complete with stories of derring-do such as the incident at the Dixon headquarters. At the request of then-Chairman of the Republican National Committee George H.W. Bush, Rove was questioned by the FBI. [7] Rove’s contemporary Lee Atwater signed an affidavit stating that the admissions caught on tape, including the Dixon incident, were made merely “in jest.” [8]”
1977 — Worked for a political action committee dedicated to making the elder Bush president in 1980.
1978 — Advised younger Bush during his unsuccessful Texas congressional campaign.
1980 — Assisted George H.W. Bush’s unsuccessful presidential campaign.
*1992 — Fired from the re-election campaign of the first President Bush on suspicion of leaking details of the campaign’s Texas operation to none other than Robert Novak.
1994 — Adviser for George W. Bush’s successful Texas gubernatorial campaign.
1998 — Adviser for Gov. Bush’s successful re-election campaign.
2000 — Chief strategist for Bush’s presidential campaign.
2004 — Chief strategist for re-election campaign.
2005 — Assistant to the President, Deputy Chief of Staff and Senior Adviser to President George W. Bush.
2007 — Resigned from White House to ’spend more time with his family in texas’.
Nov 2007 — Hired as a GOP hit columnist for Newsweak.
Novak was the only one Obama should have criticized. Dems, please, be smart about this. Don’t let hacks like Novak and Rove play you!
Much ado about Karl the Coward and Novakula. Much speculation.
Query: turn it around……has the D team cultivated a particular journalist thru which bullshit may be sewn against the R teamers? If not, why not?
Ghostman
Loo Hoo. @ 42
I am sorry, I don’t read fiction, so I cannot comment on the quality (or lack thereof) of karls rantings, though his past speaks for itself.
Steve-AR @ 30
You’re right. They are scared to death of a Hillary run, and are doing everything they can to get another democrat on the ticket. (Novak too!) He knows what the results of the debates between Hillary and any of the igits will be!
Curious in Central Texas @ 39
I will but I don’t know how to do that.
Steve-AR @ 49
Sorry — paulahatfield at yahoo.com
Karl Rove behind the Novak transmission?
In the words of Peggy “Dolphin” Noonan:
“Is it irresponsible to speculate? It’s irresponsible not to!”
Veritas78 @ 34
Response from the Clinton camp:
Statement from Howard Wolfson:
Once again Senator Obama is echoing Republican talking points, this time from Bob Novak.
This is how Republicans work.
A Republican-leaning journalist runs a blind item designed to set Democrats against one another. Experienced Democrats see this for what it is. Others get distracted and thrown off their games.
Voters should be concerned about the readiness of any Democrat inexperienced enough to fall for this.
There is a campaign in this race that has engaged in the very practice that Senator Obama is decrying, and it’s his.
We have no idea what Mr. Novak’s item is about and reject it totally. Instead of pointing fingers at us, Senator Obama should get back to the issues and focus on what this election is really about.
I wonder how Newsweek sleeps at night knowing they hired Rove a guy famous er sucspected of Swiftboating Jon Kerry, outing Valerie Wilson, claiming Jon McCain has an illegitimete African Amerian child.
Hey I just noticed a theme two American military guys and a girl spy were trashed by Rove a Draft Dodger to help a Draft Dodger President!
After all Just how did Bush get in the Texas Air National guard after scoring low on his test without daddy’s clout?
It’s discouraging that Obama recognized the smear, but hit out at the target his enemies wanted him to. Is he really that naive? It doesn’t say much for his judgement, and I’m afraid he’s falling on my list of possibles.
From Steve Benen at TPM: “A few observations. First, Novak’s column smeared both Clinton and Obama, and the two campaigns proceeded to make it worse by spending the entire day bickering over what was, as a practical matter, a dumb column devoid of any substance.”
And these are serious people, and I pound my head against the wall, ouch, please make it stop, ouch, ouch, ouch. The economy, health care, war…pointless for me to supply links just read today’s NYT for starters, selfish pricks, all of ‘em, left and right and center, can’t move to Japan, wonder if I can still get into Canada, I hear the Looney’s taken flight.
earlofhuntingdon @ 41
Hmm either then we lock him up or attack him so bad that he will look for weaker prey.
Animals attack on weakness, they push until someone pushes back.
Obama and Hilary have been getting most of the attacks.
If they want to lead us they have to show that at the very least can they can defend themselves.
Going Nuclear on Rove and Novak won’t hurt Obama or Hilary a bit in the polls since Rove and Novak’s popularity numbers are radioactve.
Just a reminder from your friendly mods that changing screen names may result in being banned from this site.
Thanks.
Veritas78 @ 17
It’s an unrealistic wish, I suppose, but I too would like to see more of this. They could have started with a certain $400 haircut story, as far as I’m concerned.
But no, this is being played as a zero-sum game by our Democratic PrezCandis.
And I smell Rove.
Reminder that Netroots Nation will be in Austin, and the price will go up $75. December 1. Steve AR and Curious, are you guys attending? Anyone else? I’ll be there!
Many people, not just Fox News viewers, don’t fully understand the need for impeachment of Cheney and then Bush.
I am writing a series of three articles that put forward the reality of that need in terms of world opinion, the crimes of this administration, and ultimately the danger of allowing this kind of behavior to continue unchecked.
This is the first.
http://willyloman.wordpress.co.....s-that-so/
” I smell a much bigger rat” Bigger than Novak, Bigger than Karl? Could the rat be the coordination and timing of Novak and Rove.
Could it be the MSM’s repeating of GOP rummors again without fact checking. Without realizing that yes these two men you reliy upon as sources for your story have worked lies together before?
For a bunch of investigative journalists the MSM sure gets taken lot…by amatuers!
I certainly hope Obama won’t rely on a traitor for details relevant to the campaign.
Netroots Nation.
being that Novak is a congenital serial liar and a treasonous scab, a sane person would NEVER give a shit or believe a thing Novak says. Any one reacting to Novak’s article is full of shit.
.
TeddySanFran @ 57
Bingo. I smell a Rove.
Jane
Difficult to understand what rat you smell. If Rove-Novak made up the smear, Hillary should make it clear she has no slander on Obama. Obama had no alternative but to respond otherwise he gets Swiftboated like Kerry.
Who do you think Rove-Novak wants to win the Democratic nomination? Obviously they want the weakest candidate. It would seem, assuming the story of Obama’s indiscretions is made up, they see Hilary as weakest and so seek to damage Obama and promote Hilary. Should give people who support Hilary something to think about.
Whoops quote out of cue. Sorry Veritas.
I said,
“I love the cut of that Jib. It kinda sorta feels like it keeps us looking less self-destructive and putting the missile in the proper target recepticle.
Bingo.
I smell a Rove.”
Loo Hoo. @ 59
Loo Hoo. @ 59
I was not aware of meeting. I’ll try to be there. Please share details via email given in comments here. Thanks.
Clinton is ominous for the GOP for any number of reasons. She is a smart, formidable, determined, machine politician, who nevertheless has access to progressive resources. She knows how both the Hill and the White House work, formally and informally. She is perhaps the candidate best poised to turn what she does find important (a list different from mine) into legislation and policy.
Tactically, she knows how to uncover past administration secrets - which could well put dozens of current top GOP hands in jail. And she has by far the greatest number of axes to grind on the GOP - personally and professionally.
In Bill, she has an electioneering and fundraising magician who would redefine what it means to be Washington’s First Man. Her election would be the GOP’s Twofer from Hell, no matter how much her candidacy would incite their mob. The GOP could not have a worse or more determined foe.
Here’s Digby’s take on the issue.
Someone said it upthread, but it bears repeating: Our side must fight back–strongly–against all the smears and mud and lies the right will fling at us.
During the 2004 campaign, I watched the GOP flinging mud and my dear Democratic party running wimpy ads in response. This after 20 years of watching NYC politics, with all the backstabbing and backroom dealing–oh, Rudy knows a thing or two about underhanded politicking, yes.
Hillary aside, are our other pols ready for it?
OT way OT, but here because Pups are part of the Facebook phenomenon.
Posted on Daily Kos Front Page as a link and the words “a bizzare internet relationship” and easily missable, the story of the use of facebook for sordid human behavior with deadly, yes, deadly results.
You are busy pups, I know, but anyone with a child on Facebook needs to read this story.
In fact anyone who works with adolescents.
Lawyers might want to ponder if criminal charges could have been brought.
http://suburbanjournals.stltod....._1.ii1.txt
LooHoo - did you see your hat tip?
Right on, earlofhuntington!
Hey oldcoastie, I sure did! Thanks. Really good that you got your info out there. I didn’t see it until this morning.
Rove is a pus filled boil that has been leaking his toxic waste on the American body politic thanks to Bush.
His latest foray into the print media is merely another parapet for him to catapult his dung at us all.
He’s a man that should be shunned and driven up into the windmill by the villagers.
Too bad the media is Stockholm Syndrome central.
-GSD
OldCoastie @ 73
Great job, Old Coastie on the Ballot Fraud. I was just asking after you up thread. Wish you could tell us that someone got caught redhanded. Red Repubican handed. Keep us posted because not everyone reads Kos and there is so much Kos to read if you do.
Away for the rest of day Pups. See you on late night
BSRH - haven’t heard anything yet… keep your fingers crossed.
ooo! I got frontpaged on Calitics!
I kinda like this…
der @ 55
Felt ust like you. I first felt sick then ‘progressed’ to head pounding.
I then took a little modest action on other fronts on these pages. For what’s worth.
now really gotta go.
OldCoastie @ 79
You keep it up Old Coastie and the store will close on me. Congrats.
Ferris @ 30
Did someone say the NoRo Virus ?!! *g*
Rove is a strapping example of superhuman Aryan masculinity.
My hands tremble at the thought of his literary and strategic brilliance adorning Newsweek.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 82
I’d like to hear Clinton or Obama say that out loud, on TV! lol!
Who benefits from the Novak column and the reaction to it?
Not Obama.
Not Clinton.
Republicans benefit. The Novak column causes problems for the two Democrats who are most likely to get their parties nomination based on the polls.
I don’t think this is that complicated. The Novak column is a Republican generated story.
YGBFKM:
*yougottabefuckinkiddinme
Karl Rove: ‘Honourary Mention in the Heinrich Himmler lookalike contest, tri-country mall, Oktoberfest, 1983.’
willyloman @ 60
Procuratio Frutex delenda est.
punaise @ 86
They’re sure doing a hatchet job on Obama … first the relevation that he and Cheney are cousins and now this … I wonder why …
left dc in 72 @ 15
None so blind …
punaise @ 86
I have officially heard everything now.”
A’57 @ 88
Bush43: Heh heh … if you keep speaking in Latin, Lou Dobbs is gonna make me deport ya to Latin America …
newtonusr @ 14
Nor should we be terribly surprised should this have some fingerprints of Rahm operatives - conjecture it pains me to suggest. :~(
punaise @ 86
AHAHAHAHA!
oh wait, you mean it’s not a joke?
Obama and Clinton should have issued a joint statement against the slimy, professional gossip column that Novak wrote instead of using it to bash each other.
I want the candidates to address policy differences and not gotchas. Biden, Dodd and Richardson are beginning to look better and better because they are not resorting to the ad hominem attacks at least to the same level of Clinton and Obama and to some extent Edwards.
punaise @ 85
Right :)
And Glenn’s take is, as always, valued, notwithstanding the obvious idiocy espoused.
marymccurnin @ 91
I was always hoping that These Cousins would win the White House … *g*
Todd Gitlin @ 148
I’m not a Nader supporter today, but I voted for him in 2000. I’d make the same vote if I had to do it all over again. My vote for Nader was a protest against the lack of principles in the Democratic Party. There was so much pressure on Naderites in the late 90’s from the editors of The Nation, the Eric Altermans, and so many other lesser-evil Democrats to crush the Nader rebellion. Fortunately, it didn’t work. Those same critics are whistling a different tune about principles now. The Naderite critique is still alive and guiding progressives. Today progressives are voting for Democrats with an eye on the quality and principles of their representatives as much as they do on voting based quantity. Indeed, principles have inspired the best Democratic representatives in congress today. The lazy political way for liberals has been to simply follow the knee-jerk, lesser-evil strategy and vote for any Democrat regardless. That’s what we got after the 2006 elections. And what do we see? Where are the progressives now? We’re focused on the primaries- where we should have been focused all along. Democrats weren’t thinking that way in the 90’s, however. The only option for voting against a broken and corrupt party was to vote Green and try to put some heat on and stand up for principle. Nobody was talking about primaries back then.
The Naderite critique of the Democrats is still applicable and it’s still with us. We’ve just had to wait around for the mainstream, lesser-evil progressives to figure it out. It has taken a long time for them to put two and two together. We’ve all watched mainstream progressives wring their hands in frustration as representatives like Feinstein, Pelosi, and Schumer screwed them over. The Naderite critique of the Democratic Party has played an important role in helping lesser-evil progressives make the conceptual leap to principles. Look how long it has taken mainstream progressives to call for impeachment! They had so much faith in their mainstream Democrat representatives that they actually went along with the impeachment is “off the table” rhetoric (only in the blogosphere it went like this, “impeachment is just not practical because the votes aren’t there . . .”) Impeachment wasn’t about principle with mainstream progressives back then because they still had faith in their mainstream Democrats. Now they’re screaming for impeachment, but it’s so late in the game now. Oh well, live and learn.
The faction in the Democratic electorate that supported Nader in 2000 was agitating for principle. I supported Nader in 2000 on principle. And I’m still stuck on principle. If that means that I have to vote for a third party, then so be it. The lesser-evil progressive faction and the Naderite faction of the Democratic Party do seem united today behind the principle of the rule of law. I’d argue that the Naderite faction has been instrumental in leading us to that position.
As far as Nader is concerned today, I think the criticism that he took for his candidacy broke him. I still respect the work he has done in his public life, but I think he should step away and serve the public as an advocate again. Anyway, none of us expected Cheney-Bush to implement a dictatorship, but once that became apparent the rationale for the rule of law became primary. The most efficient way of dealing with direct authoritarianism was through the only opposition that existed and that was the Democratic Party. That’s why I’m working to change the Democratic Party from within. Nevertheless, it’s still wrong that third party candidates are not given a hearing. If Nader had run as a Democrat, it would have been a completely different story. The Naderite green ideology is alive and well inside the Democratic Party and in many respects it’s leading the way.