"We used to love America…. But why isn’t the U.S. standing up for Pakistan when we need it most? Is America even listening to us? We are calling them Busharraf now. They are the same man."
They’ve got a point. If America’s democratic institutions were as fragile as Pakistan’s, does anyone really think Dubya wouldn’t find a trumped-up reason to declare a "state of emergency" so he could suspend the Constitution and stay in power? Hell, I’m not entirely convinced he won’t do it anyway. All that separates the dictator and the wannabe is opportunity.
Amazingly enough, the crackdown on civil rights isn’t slowing the Scary Islamofascists down at all. Kinda like how all of Bush’s warrantless wiretapping, torture, shock, awe and surges have had minimal impact on al Qaeda. Why, if one didn’t know better, one might almost think that Bushie and Mushie were both just grabbing power for power’s sake, with no intention of actually using it for its stated purpose.
What really frustrates me is that BushCo. just sat back and let Pakistan fall apart. They took the same half-assed, talk-a-good-game-but-don’t-follow-up-or-hold-anyone-accountable approach that they used with Katrina and everything else… and applied it to a nuclear-armed country with a very unpopular dictator. Only now, when it’s a globally visible crisis, are they making lame attempts at damage control.
The Bush administration has given Pakistan $10 billion in aid – $7 billion of it military – since Musharraf pledged his "unstinting" support in the war on terror, and for what? Musharraf still hasn’t moved towards democracy, he pardoned A.Q. Khan for selling nuclear secrets to Libya, Iran and North Korea (while our State Department shrugged), and he’s used almost none of his aid money to actually fight terrorism:
[R]ather than use the more than $7 billion in U.S. military aid to bolster its counter-terrorism capabilities, Pakistan has spent the bulk of it on heavy arms, aircraft and equipment that U.S. officials say are far more suited for conventional warfare with India, its regional rival.
That has left fighters with the paramilitary force, known as the Frontier Corps, equipped often with little more than "sandals and bolt-action rifles," said a senior Western military official in Islamabad, even as they face Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters equipped with assault rifles and grenade launchers.The arms imbalance has contributed to Al Qaeda’s ability to regroup in the border region….
So what did that $10 billion buy us, exactly? Well, given the combination of autocratic rule and lukewarm counterterrorism, there’s a good chance that it’ll buy us an anti-American Islamist theocracy… with nukes. IANAD (I am not a diplomat), but could it really have made the situation any worse if Dubya called his old pal Pervy up every once in a while and threatened to divert all of that aid money to India if Pakistan didn’t start making progress on al Qaeda and free elections?
Of course, such an approach would imply a belief in terrorism and democracy as something more than just the words he uses to intimidate and inspire.
(Photo credit: Helene C. Stikkel/DOD via pingnews)
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HI ELI!
Zed!!!!
Hi Eli.
Evening Eli!
Laura Doty @ 1
Well if I had to lose the zed to someone, it’s my pleasure that’s it’s you Laura.
Eli!
Hi Eli. Evening all.
Hi guys!!!
Millineryman @ 4
Hi MM! Happy weekend all.
Eli, I’m always running out when you start your Fri. post…will catch it when I get back, and thanks in advance.
Laura Doty @ 8
Probably just as well – I might be out of my element here…
Thank you, thank you, thank you…I saw that today…it is priceless, and I hope it sticks.
Busharraf!!!
This whole debacle is another Busharraf failure of “intelligence”…his intelligence.
Shitteth hitteth the fan, once again. Seems to be a daily occurrence.
Eli, NICE POST!!!
I however am convinced pakistan was a trial balloon set sail by darth cheney
that is my belief, they are watching the pitfalls and preparing for when they do it
Hi Eli
Busharaff indeed, how did we get here?
*asking rhetorically in a most dejected fashion*
perris @ 11
A trial balloon for declaring martial law? I’m not sure Pakistan is a very realistic test case, but reality’s never been a deterrent before…
Eli @ 9
how so?
We give them 10 billion of ourt tax dollars and they turn around and spend in with our MIC and buy weapons. Voila… corporate welfare for the defense industry. In stead of the USA purchasing the weapons from our MIC for US they do it for Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Israel, Columbia and so on.
How about some NON military aid?
Elliott @ 12
Neither of them was ever held accountable.
We’ve given $10.58 billion to Pakistan since 9/11, largely in untraceable cash transfers.
TexBetsy @ 14
Oh, I’m usually more comfortable with the media/politics/corruption stuff. But this whole Pakistan clusterfuck is just too epic.
Jane Hamsher @ 17
Did other administrations do this much in the way of cash transfer aid?
TexBetsy @ 19
I’m pretty sure that when it’s untraceable, it’s more bribery than aid.
I need some aid. Of the bribery sort or any sort really.
Unfortunately, Eli, this is all too true; “All that separates the dictator and the wannabe is opportunity.” With the COG legislation and the repeal of ‘Posse Comitatus’ it is a very real threat… 8-(
If Bush tries to pull the dictator card and suspends what’s left of the Constitution, do you think the military would support him after he basically broke it?
TexBetsy @ 21
Just make my aid out to “Cash”…
Millineryman @ 23
Maybe he’s breaking it so it won’t have enough strength to stop him…
Eli @ 24
Alms would even be nice… 8-)
We got here, because nobody in the mainstream media or blogs will look at what went down on 9/11; which has been the entire justification for everything that has happened since. That is the truth, like it or not. There are way too many inconsistencies and lies throughout the whole scenario that have been ignored, ridiculed, redacted, and written off as taboo. That is why we are where we are today, and until people start looking into this seriously, nothing will change. We keep slipping down the rabbit hole, daily. That is my opinion, and I am not a kook. So there!!! That is what I think.
CTuttle @ 22
I think we’re still a long ways away, but the Republicans will keep chipping away until someone stops them.
Eli @ 25
and Bush does have his Blackwaterian Guard
I think if Bush convinces them that he must declare marshal law for “national security purposes” they might go along with him for a while. But how do we get back our country when the congress has been sent home?
Eli @ 28
Actually, if you parse the language, it’s a lot closer than you think…!
Elliott @ 29
That’s true. He doesn’t have to disable the military; just make its homeland presence weaker than Blackwater et al.
That’s actually too tinfoil-hatty for me, to be honest – I think they’re more likely to just stick with the drowning-the-Constitution-in-a-bathtub strategy.
Eli @ 13
cheney is a moron, he doesn’t know there’s a differance between pakistan and America, he is an utte fool
we know cheney’s hand is in all decisions made by the the pakistan government, this has been reported.
cheney tried to use Iraq as a trial balloon for the federalist economic model as well
they think they can figure out how to apply what went wrong suspending the constitution in pakistan to how they will approach those pitfalls if they try it in the states
this is my belief, Musharraf used terms he could have only gotten from cheney
things like “activist judges”…where the HELL did he come up with THAT phrase?
only one place
and using Lincoln as his precidence for suspending the constitution…puhleeze
this is cheney’s work I am sure of it
perris @ 33
Addington at Cheney’s bidding.
If you have done research you can see that the 911 commission report was a pack of lies and non conclusive. 911 was most probably an “inside” job by some rogue elements in the intelligence services or ex members with ties to the military.
Whether the admin was in on it, or was able to use it for THEIR agenda matters not.
Cui bono?
TexBetsy @ 19
I think for any admin but Busharraf and the Yellow Elephants, it has been other than cash. Something about special reporting requirements when more than $10K cash involved.
Eli @ 32
and they have the water running there, for sure
(did I just say “for sure”?)
Cheney, huh?
Impeach Cheney now, just like Kucinich said.
Do it!!!
Eli- great that you put some of the details of this out there in this post.
And for the sake of clarification, when you said:
“So what did that $10 billion buy us, exactly? Well, given the combination of autocratic rule and lukewarm counterterrorism, there’s a good chance that it’ll buy us an anti-American Islamist theocracy… with nukes.”
Were you meaning Pakistan, or the US? Or both, maybe?
Elliott @ 29
correct, they have deliberately broken our armed forces, they have deliberately brought state malitia resources overseas, they have deliberately left us without our pants
balckwater is setting up shop in outposts throughout our country…I saw a blackwayer add where they were saying things like “providing security and rebuilding infrastructure”
frightening stuff there
then the other day I saw a car that looked like a wanna be security car, yet it had sprawed BIGGER then I had ever seen on ANY police car
POLICE
HUGE
and on the front fender was in script this ominous saying;
“PROVIDING HOMELAND SECURITY”
that’s right, they were using nazi terminolgy sprawled all over what looked like it was NOT a police car
I am pretty certain this was a blackwater vehicle, here in lawn guy land new york
these are ominous signs let me tell you Eli
SanderO @ 35
We’re all gonna die, we’re all gonna die. Help help.
dakine01 @ 36
That actually pales in comparison to the largest single transfer of cash, the $13 billion airlifted into Baghdad, with only $1 billion accounted for since…
Valley Girl @ 40
Well, of course it applies to both countries, but it’s a lot more likely to produce an Islamist theocracy in Pakistan.
BTW…My guess is that Musharraf has the goods on the whole deal, and Negroponte is over there to tell him…you breathe one word about what you know and….
Evil, evil, people.
raven @ 42
Heh, a country boy will survive… ;-)
Millineryman @ 23
Hell, he’s got Blackwater. Now Blackwater International. I suppose that has certain tax advantages. And if Blackwater brought other nationals into our country, they wouldn’t have any problem killing Americans.
Just my paranoid tendencies emerging here.
Valley Girl @ 40
Hush money.
CTuttle @ 46
I can skin a buck and run a trot line.
Yea we are gonna die sooner or later, but that has nothing to do with the conspiracy of 911 and the criminality of those involved.
help help the sky is falling
LS @ 45
I sure don’t think he’s there to lay down the law. At most, he might tell Mushie that Bushie is terribly displeased, but I’m not taking any BushCo actions seriously until they start yanking aid.
SanderO @ 35
this president was given PRECISE intel telling him EXACTLY what would happen
he was told where, by who, when, what weapons, how the attack would be implimented
it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to get more presice intel then what this president was briefed
our intelligence community was more concerned then any time before, “EVERYONE WAS RUNNING AROUND WITH THEIR HAIR ON FIRE”
THIS PRESIDENT TOOK VACATION, and stood down
norad watched commercial airliners do you turns in the sky and did nothing
the president was informed we were under attack,
YET REMAINED AT THE ARENA HIS PUBLIC AGENDA CALLED FOR
that’s right, he was NOT removed from his publicly known place of appearance for something like 45 friggin minutes
he KNEW that place would NOT be one of the targets of attack
of course he was “in on it”
SanderO @ 50
You’re gonna give yourself an ulcer.
raven @ 49
As long as the post-apocalyptic wasteland has wifi, I’m sure I’ll be fine.
LS @ 27
But, more and more respected Americans are speaking up every day too. Who would have ever thought we’d have John Dean, Howard Fine, and even to an extent, Pat Buchanan speaking out?
Eli @ 25
Good point.
Armed citizens don’t bode well for dictators. I think one legion that wouldn’t take too kindly to Bush trying to impose a dictatorship would be gun owners. And if Blackwater tried to take their guns, I’m sure there would be a fight to the finish.
Eli @ 51
Negroponte is a tool, and he has never been associated with anything innocent.
Mushie and Bushie…I like that!!!
Good night pups. Tomorrow’s another day.
or
Good night Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are.
raven @ 49
I have some nifty tricks I learned along the way, in defense of our country… ;-)
So who’s tushie?
Busharraf? I don’t know. O’le Pervez isn’t optimal, and it is certainly time for him to be gone; but Musharref appears a bit intelligent, efficient and competent to be conjoined with the sad sack of dung known as Bush.
Millineryman @ 56
All Dubya would have to tell the Kool-Aid 25-percenters is that he needed extraordinary powers to keep the liberals from ruining the country, and they’d be besides themselves with glee.
SanderO @ 58
me too, g’night sanderO and g’night all you firedogs, see tomorrow
perris @ 63
g’nite
Eli @ 24
Shrink wrapping wll do just fine.
CTuttle @ 43
Billions Over Baghdad
bmaz @ 61
Well, there has to be *some* slack in the comparison. Dictators as dumb as Dubya don’t exactly grow on trees.
eCAHNomics @ 65
I only need a couple pallets
from common dreams
No Easy Answers to Pakistan Crisis
by Jim Lobe
WASHINGTON – Amid growing polarisation between President Gen. Pervez Musharraf and Pakistan’s civilian opposition forces, U.S. hopes of salvaging a power-sharing accord that would marry the military dictator to former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto are fading fast.
Indeed, Bhutto’s public break with the military dictator — enunciated, among other places, in a Washington Post column Wednesday that called on Musharraf to resign as both president and as army chief — will make it much harder to patch together the deal that Washington had tried so hard to work out over the last several months, according to most analysts here.
That deal called for Musharraf to retain his disputed presidency on condition that he first permit Bhutto to return from exile and then hold elections that would give her a third premiership in exchange for his resignation as chief of the army, presumably in favour of his number two, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, a Washington favourite.
Aloha, SanderO and Perris!
SanderO @ 58
My mother thanks you, my father thanks you. . .and I thank you.
TexBetsy @ 69
DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!!!
Eli @ 51
Eli, doesn’t Congress have anything to say about money it allocates? Biden sounded like he knew all about Pakistan last night.
Loo Hoo. @ 73
If it’s under their authority, they sure as hell haven’t been doing anything about it. Wouldn’t want to cut off our good friend and ally in the War On Terror, now would we.
Millineryman @ 56
As I’ve said before, the National Rifle Association had some good points that escaped me for most of my life. Maybe we should all join and take over the club.
Loo Hoo. @ 66
Not to disparage that report, but, I’d read credible sources putting it at 13 not 12, but, what’s a billion here or there amongst friends? ;-)
TexBetsy @ 60
Where’s Alfred when we need his reassurances?
Eli @ 54
Eli, that one’s a classic.
Tithonia @ 78
Mad WiMax.
Perhaps Biden did how what they know, and for how long did they know it.
perris @ 63
Good night, both of you guys.
Loo Hoo. @ 55
Right you are. It is so obvious.
Their M.O. is to discredit everyone, and I believe everyone should stand up to these people now. We can, and we should.
There are only two reasons that the whole world takes George W. Bush seriously: he appears to be unstable (irrational). And he has the capability to launch nuclear weapons.
Loo Hoo. @ 73
Biden nor Hillary, nor Edwards, nor Obama, nor Dodd (til quite lately) have demonstrated any kind of leadership on Pakistan or anything else. The only Presidential Candidate who has shown any real outspoken leadership of any kind counts Shirley McClaine among his best friends.
Elliott @ 68
Gives “Make me a pallet on your floor” a whole new meaning.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 83
Speaking of which, Amy’s interview with Craig Unger today was outstanding.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 83
Crazy guys with big guns and itchy trigger fingers are *always* taken seriously. Not necessarily respected, but definitely taken very seriously.
I enjoy backtalk.
OldCoastie @ 88
So, um, would you like me to sass you?
OldCoastie @ 88
I hate you and I don’t care what you think!
Oh sorry. Not teen backtalk then?
I work near a gun shop. People are buying lots of guns. Bad guns – military style with laser sights and worse. These people are not like us. They are Republican gun nuts.
Margot @ 85
I’d be quite content with one stack on one of the pallets…
Hunter Thompson once said there were grounds for a mutual alliance between hippies and gun freaks-what you would get is a culture of beautiful, st*ned flower children who would never hurt a fly but would be perfectly capable of shooting the sh*t out of anyone who f*cked with them.
The other problem is, if Bush were to tell the NRA that they were the unorganized militia and they could keep their guns if they were loyal, they’d be on his side.
Good night everyone, and as always Eli, I enjoy your posts.
TexBetsy @ 38
Cheney owns the Pakistan Desk. No one else will take it because if they do, Cheney will pester them to death, and send Addington over to
nipbite at their heels. Cheney considers himself an expert on Pakistan. Like he considers himself an expert on Iran and Iraq. Doesn’t that make you feel safe and secure?Just like Cheney drove Negroponte out of the Intelligence office by holding up the Iran NIE for a year because Negroponte wouldn’t bend the facts to suit Cheney’s delusions. But you’ve heard this song before.
Bob in HI
hackworth @ 91
If there’s a Republican coup, they won’t be resisting, they’ll be signing up.
Night, MM – thanks!
Margot @ 85
indeed! :)
Perhaps this is the reason Bush wanted control over the world banks. Nobody can transfer money to the “wrong” person-Bhutto-just to stop the madness.
Eli @ 96
The NRA would love to have that kind of power and I would never trust them.
bobschacht @ 95
Even DNI McConnell is giving Cheney flack about the Iran NIE…
Millineryman @ 94
good night MM!
Noting that pix at the top. I don’t know that it’s always good luck to have your picture taken with Rummy. Remember the chummy photo of Rumsfeld taken with Saddam not so awfully long ago?
And don’t believe that either side is really all that concerned over extremists. Both Bush and Mush can, chamaleon-like, shift from making a group “enemies” into being their “friends”.
Consider how fast Petraeus jumped the broom with the former Baathist Sunnis, giving the weapons and military supplies. Well get this action from the s-called “enemies” of Musharraf
Islamic Radicals Capture Imran Khan at Student Protest in Pakistan
IMRAN Khan, one of the last remaining independent political voices at liberty in Pakistan, was attacked by hardline Islamic students yesterday and handed over to police.
With the former prime minister Benazir Bhutto under house arrest and thousands of activists and lawyers in prison, the only political force left free in the country is the religious Right. General Pervez Musharraf’s regime has not moved concertedly against the mullahs, who have always been close to the army.
Mr Khan made his first public appearance yesterday since going into hiding when the emergency was declared on 3 November. Police had sealed off all entrances to Punjab University in Lahore, where he had announced that he would address students.
Somehow he made it through the cordon, appearing suddenly just after midday, where hundreds of students had gathered, chanting slogans against the regime. He was immediately hoisted on to people’s shoulders, raising his fist in the air, amid scenes of jubilation.
But events turned nasty very quickly as the “beards” – students belonging to the feared Islami Jamiat Talba – moved in. The crowd was pushed towards a nearby building. Mr Khan was bundled inside and the gates were locked. Some claimed that he was punched repeatedly. The entrance was guarded by Jamiat students.
An hour later, a van drove up and Mr Khan was shoved inside and driven off at high speed. At the exit from the campus, he was handed over to police, who put him in a van and sped off. Rashid Mahmood Bhullar, 25, a Jamiat student, said: “Imran Khan came here and he interfered. We do not like interference from any politician.”
Soloni Bokhari, an official with Mr Khan’s Tehreek-e-Insaaf party, speaking just as he was taken by police, said: “I feel this is the last nail in the coffin [for the government]. You will see how the youth will come out.”
Talat Naqvi, the information secretary of Tehreek-e-Insaaf, said last night: “We’re trying to find out where [Mr Khan] is. We want to be there before he is taken away.” She feared that Mr Khan would be taken to Adiala Jail, a notorious prison, near the capital Islamabad, used for holding political figures.
In an interview with The Scotsman this week, Mr Khan warned that Gen Musharraf’s crushing of democratic forces left room only for extremists.
It’s widely recognized that Musharraf’s so-called opposition with the Islamists is superficial. Unlike the Democracy Movement, Socialists, Labor Activists, and anti-Feudalists…which have all been brutally suppressed by the police and Army, the Islamists have beeen coddled and cultivated. They have taken over the political discourse in universities as a result of Gen. Zia al-Haq forcibly banning socialists and other political organisations on campuses.
This left the Islami Jamiat Talba, ostensibly a “religious organization” with unparalled control of student, and eventually faculty, life on campuses. The 25,000-strong Punjab University is known as a Jamiat hotbed. Islami Jamiat Talba is the student cadre of Jamaat-e-Islami, one of the two large Islanist parties in Pakistan. Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam, known as the JUI, is the other, and dominant at other Universities . Although both are superficially in opposition to the Musharraf government, the JUI are nothing more than a “friendly opposition”, supporting Musharaf at pivotal times.
“It’s very simple: they [the Jamiat] have guns, goons and they have blood. They have been terrorising faculty and students for the last 30 years,” stated Rasul Bakhsh Rais, professor of politics at the private Lahore University of Management Sciences.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 103
Gettin’ chummy wit’ Rummy = shark bait.
CTuttle @ 22
Yeah, I say we want Posse Comitatus reinstated and the National Guard brought back! And a law passed that makes private security companies like Blackwater illegal to operate within the continental United States or Hawaii or Alaska, or any US possession like Puerto Rico.
Hi Elliot, CT, Betsy, everyone!
Betsy, remember when “Talk to the hand” was popular? Grrrr. But I had to laugh when a little girl said, Talk to the hand, leave a message after the beep!
Eli @ 20
Anybody else ever wonder if the pesky economic accounting is in order for all the casual cash coming off the presses?
Ann in AZ @ 105
Any US possession? Like, say, Iraq?
Margot @ 107
I saw the star of Torchwood (Dr. Who spinoff) on a BBC gameshow saying, “Talk to the hand, because the wrist is pissed!”
TexBetsy @ 90
Heh. Having fun on the home front, are we?
Bob in HI
SunnyNobility @ 107
What size tinfoil hat you wearing these days?
SunnyNobility @ 107
Wasn’t there an article (probably TPM) that the company hired to account for the money sent to Iraq had exactly 0 (zero) accountants on staff?
bobschacht @ 110
Nah, everything’s fine. They’re watching stupid TV shows, but I am pulling the cord shortly if the dinner dishes are still on the table.
SunnyNobility @ 107
Heh, didn’t the Feds just inject the largest transfusion of cash into the system, yesterday, since 9/11?
CTuttle @ 114
Again? Soon, a penny will be worth more than a dollar.
TexBetsy @ 113
Crack the whip!
Margot @ 107
and leave it right here
GordonM @ 116
Awesome! I have *loads* of pennies!
Why does James Carville dress like this? Scroll down.
Eli @ 110
LOL!
“Busharraf”…
I smell royalties, Eli! Residuals!
Have your people call my people! :o)
Oh, and Mush: No more nice F-16 squadrons for YOU!
(Under the table: How’s about a tankerful of mace, some rubber truncheons, and a few thousand cattle prods? :o) )
GordonM @ 115
Hmmm… Copper versus paper… ;-)
Loo Hoo. @ 119
More to the point, why does James Carville?
Tanbark @ 122
Hey, I just got it from the Pakistanis – not entirely sure how the royalties would work.
You’re here early…
Loo Hoo. @ 120
He thinks he’s Steve Jobs.
GordonM @ 124
Here’s one theory.
Eli @ 89
Old Coastie, you also like crosstalk, across the blogs. Good to see you on D-Kos, and happy to have been the one who got you connected to you fellow CAians. Good luck tmr. but keep your cool. We need you here.
That’s it for me tonight, cause it’s a big day in the BlueState. Emptywheeler is coming to town and the next hurrahnicks are meeting up.
Info from me downstairs and on EW’s blog from Phred.
newtonusr @ 126
He’s an iPublican.
Twain @ 100
I have a friend in the country who I let hunt on my property. He has about 2 dozen guns (and votes D). I’ve already arranged that when the time comes, I can take refuge with him. It’s better than having your own gun.
Loo Hoo. @ 119
It’s a diving suit for Mer de Matlin?
Elliott @ 121
John Barrowman? *grins Cool, and he’s so flamboyant in real life no wonder he can play Jack Harkness with flair. XD (my favorite show last year and i’m agitating for series 2, which starts next year!)
aliasofwestgate @ 132
Yes; this was a few seconds before he challenged the host to a “gay-off”.
*gigglesnorts*
Eli @ 133
Ah, here it is…
Jeez, punaise isn’t here to explain that that’s “merde Matlin”.
Millineryman @ 56
Armed citizens actually have been repeatedly used by Dictators to both rise to power, and to bully their oponents. It’s a common myth that Hitler disarmed the population. He only disarmed the OPPOSITION. Weapons were widely available in Germany when the population was “purged” of the enemies of the State.
Gun regulation was imposed on the Democratic Weimar Republic by the Treaty of Versailles, although this was loosened in 1928 to allow the licensed ownership of firearms.
The Nazi 1938 German Weapons Law still required a permit to carry a firearm and a separate permit to acquire a firearm. Firearms were restricted to “…persons whose trustworthiness is not in question and who can show a need for a (gun) permit.” regulation of rifles, shotguns and ammunition was ended. Many groups were exempt from holding permits. Licensed hunters, Miltia members, State workers, and Nazi party members were no longer subject to gun ownership restrictions. The age at which persons could own guns was lowered from 20 to 18. The firearms carry permit was valid for three years instead of one year.
Jews and other “suspect persons” were banned from the manufacturing or ownership of firearms and ammo.
Thus in some ways, for “loyal” Germans, guns were rather easy to obtain. But for others, those who might be expected to rbe a potential threat against the government they were banned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Weapons_Law
Eli @ 135
OMG *laughs* Now i’m missing British TV all over again. (no cable and that show isn’t even on BBC America, although Torchwood DID make it over onto that one.)
aliasofwestgate @ 138
British TV is all over YouTube, believe me.
“You’re here early…”
They call me “ground floor tanbark”. I know a good thing when I spew Dos Equis on the monitor laughing at it. :o)
Seriously, the surreal quality of going from just watching the exquisiteness of Gwyneth Paltrow in “Possession” to reading about george bush (ostensibly) trying to play international Abe Lincoln, is dizzying.
Mush has committed the cardinal sin of becoming one MORE hole in the dike, when junior and the petros are down to hole-plugging with their tongues.
CAN goatboy dump him, just by “withdrawing support”? And will the factions fall in behind Bhutto to form a new government? Which is to ask; will the army LET that happen?
This is gonna cost us a lot more “aid”, methinks.
WhomEVER the next president is, he’s gonna have to put three balls over the white house portico, bush has passed out so many chits to avoid dealing with the “reality that they’re creating as they go.”
Tanbark @ 140
I think this is one of those situations where the time to fix it is past, and now the best we can hope for is to eke out a non-worst-case option.
And we have the worst possible team in charge to manage that.
RonD @ 93
Exactly! Even if the National Guard (the real militia), a much tighter professionally trained outfit failed to support Bush in a coup, these NRA types would begin acting like they do on the Mexican-USA border. Think of all the chaos the Posse Comitatus, Aryan Brotherhood, and Identity Movement churches could cause.
Or “she”, of course. :o)
cinnamonape @ 142
“You call them white separatist madmen; I call ‘em my base!”
Eli @ 129
… more like he’s an iDiot !!!
Evenin’ all !
yikes Eli.
hit the nail on the head there.
um, sorry if this is a silly question but I’m new to this. Were the people up there really saying that George Bush knew what was going to happen on 9/11?
xanthippe @ 147
I’m afraid so.
xanthippe @ 146
probably a rough plan
Eli @ 127
Works for me!
Eli @ 140
Nah, I knew we had that when front pages all over the country had Nancy Reagan sitting on Mr. T’s lap. We’re now well past the Omega Team, but Murdoch has censored all the photos of Laura on Eric Cartman’s lap.
Petrocelli @ 145
I’m just an effiing straight-man tonight! Evening petro!
“…now the best we can hope for is to try to eke out a non-worst-case option.”
You’re on FIRE, Eli! There’s ANOTHER sentence that we need to get copywrited. :o)
GordonM @ 151
The world would be a much better place if we had elected Mr. T in 2000.
cinnamonape @ 141
Actually, you’ve got about half those guys wrong.
Tanbark @ 153
Hey, if you dig tortured syntax, I got a million of ‘em.
CTuttle @ 123
Pennies haven’t been made of copper since about ‘81 or ‘82.
However, dimes and quarters HAVE been made mainly of copper since ‘65.
newtonusr @ 152
LOL !!! Hey newtonusr … I’d love you just the same if you were not an effing straight man … *g*
Eli @ 156
I love it
how about just one?
If you missed cinnamonape’s comment at 104, you may want to go back and read it. Excellent. I missed it last sweep, it may have been under moderation for the length.
Petrocelli @ 157
How do you know he’s straight? Just cause we haven’t met a MRS Newton …..
Eli @ 155
Hope you’re rich. I was proposing to sin tax torture.
dakine01 @ 156
True! But, you get my point… :P
Elliott @ 159
I kinda have to be in just the right kind of tortured-syntax-having mood to properly slay the language dragon.
TexBetsy @ 161
Don’t tempt me, Ms. Betsy :)
Eli @ 164
well I’ll just keep watch ;)
newtonusr @ 164
What am I tempting you with?
Loo Hoo. @ 160
Thanks Loo Hoo … Mush had better not hurt Imran Khan … he is as close to a God in Pakistan as you’ll find …
Loo Hoo. @ 160
Oh jeez, that’s depressing. But not at all surprising. And, well, another parallel, really.
dakine01 @ 157
up on copper creek she printed me
if i had a dime she spent me
no wait i have The Band’s lyrics all wrong
TexBetsy @ 167
You’ll meet Mrs. newtonusr just as soon as he’s done blowing her up …
… tee hee hee … I might have hit the Highland Park a bit much tonight …
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 170
you crippled that quote
Mushie & Bushie: The Perv Twins
SanderO @ 30
Is there any provision in the Constitution for declaring “martial law”? Where does it say that the President can shut down Congress (the one place might be where it says that if there is dispute between the two House on when to recess he can establish a compromise date. But he can’t do this unilaterally.
He Constitutionally can only suspend Habeas Corpus when the country is invaded or undergoing civil war. And actually, the Supreme Court said Lincoln acted Unconstitutionally in denying several Cnfederate supporters habeas corpus…because there were operable Courts in the Union side that could have heard the cases and issued warrants and judgements.
TeddySanFran @ 173
((( TSF )))
How’s it goin’, eh ?
Petrocelli @ 171
Busted!
Petrocelli @ 171
Or, the Leffe’s a bit much…
GordonM @ 155
I would think that most NRA members are there because they’ve been brainwashed about the second amendment. Who is in charge of the NRA right now? Anyone know? Is it a real American?
newtonusr @ 176
Oh dear … did you overinflate ?!! *g*
you crippled that quote
Elliott
heh…
CTuttle @ 177
Hey Buddy … a bit too chilly for Leffe … a fine single Malt really warmed up this cool evening …
Petrocelli @ 179
Anyone with “knowledge” would know the result of “over-inflation”…
blowout, petro
when Busharaff is hungry
Busharaff needs Beefaroni
I saw it in a Bertolucci film
newtonusr @ 182
LOL !
Loo Hoo. @ 178
The leadership of the NRA is a completely different story from the rank and file of the NRA. I’m rural, surrounded by hunters and NRA lifetime members. They make me feel more secure, not less.
cinnamonape @ 174
Have you read any of the COG protocols or EO’s on it? It is spooky! Your 104 is an awesome comment!
Petrocelli @ 181
I prefer a Rye over a Scotch any day! ;-)
GordonM @ 185
Good. I’m thinking the NRA folks would be with Americans if there were an “emergency”. Tell me I’m right, please, and that they would not side with Blackwater.
GordonM @ 185
Only know 2 NRA members in the country-hunters-perfectly nice guys.
CTuttle @ 187
Spoken like a true Canuck … *g* … I got hooked on single Malts a while back, although Crown Royal will do on cold nights like tonight …
GordonM @ 185
Wayne LaPierre, doesn’t strike me as a country boy…
Hiya Mr Eli!
Hiya, Ms. Kassie!
CTuttle @ 191
Sacre Bleu … zee French control the NRA ?!! *g*
Does anyone in the govt now actually know how to be a diplomat?
Petrocelli @ 194
Well, it isn’t Moses any longer…
SnarKassandra @ 195
Dubya thinks diplomacy is just something you have to do while you’re waiting to blow people up.
SnarKassandra @ 195
The Canadian Govt.? Yes !
The American Govt.? No !
Eli @ 197
uh oh.
CTuttle @ 196
Did they pry the leadership away from his cold, dead
brainhands ?Petrocelli @ 200
Ahh, rob me of the punch line, eh? :P
Eli @ 197
Dubya thinks diplomacy is the mark he got from Princeton (Diploma C) *g*
Loo Hoo. @ 188
One of the NRA gun-nuts I knew (reasonably well) in SF was scary, the other was not. Here, they’re all hunters, and not at all fond of what is going on.
I spent an hour in a blue-collar bar last week. Kucinich reading his impeachment resolution into the record was on the news. Everyone in the bar was in favor – even the lobstermen (who in their ignorant libertarian-inspired way usually take the most right wing position available on any issue).
you’ll have to pry this poutine from my cold dead hands!!!
CTuttle @ 201
… twasn’t me … twas the drink … *g*
GordonM @ 203
Lobstertarians?
SnarKassandra @ 195
The ones who did retired by 2005.
GordonM @ 203
well, it’s all in the claws, eh?
Therapods have claws too.
SnarKassandra @ 209
and tails
SnarKassandra @ 208
And large tails that go “thwack”.
and tales.
hiya suzanne!!!!
Eli @ 206
About right. They’re great guys – just don’t talk politics with them.
Loo Hoo. @ 212
LOL !!!
Cheers, Loo Hoo !
SnarKassandra @ 195
Oh yeah, but if they are a diplomat, they are being forced to serve in Iraq by the State Department. Force, somehow, conflicts with diplomacy though.
LS @ 215
They canceled that order actually.
I think Condi should lead by example.
LS @ 216
If they’re a good diplomat, you never (ever) know what they’re really thinking.
Loo Hoo. @ 217
Go shoe-shopping with the leaders of other nations?
TexBetsy @ 112
Not particularly large. However, changes in money reporting stats, coupled with huge foreign hard cash transfers, do tend to raise questions about who is keeping track and how. At least in my mind. I doubt it’s a casual matter to order up a few billion shrink-wrapped on pallets. It’s not like I’m questioning whether the gold is actually at Ft Knox *g*
TRex upstairs
TexBetsy @ 217
My question is, the ones that were ordered before they belayed the order, will they still have to serve…?
SunnyNobility @ 221
You never know what’s in an unmarked warehouse in NJ.
SunnyNobility @ 221
why isn’t there a tin foil hat day?
TexBetsy @ 220
Go to Iraq and show them how it’s done.
Whatever happened to that Dupont guy who was sentenced for killing someone. Don’t know why I thought of him today. He was doing prison time…
Loo Hoo. @ 226
Here.
And Schultz was a friend and client of mine. Awful thing.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 225
Why not indeed! *g*
Eli@156: It’s not the tortured syntax; it’s how much in demand things like:
“Now the best we can hope for is to try to eke out a non-worst-case option.”…are becoming.
:o)
Shitfire! With all the “missions” that these wizards are “accomplishing”, those words are way too valuable to be in the public domain.
:o)
We need to corner the market on ALL the different ways to describe the clusterfuck(s) and their denouement(s).
Dammit, there’s some serious money to made here. :o)
Hi Eli,
Gee, I’m not worried. David Brooks told us tonight the US is taking a “principled stand” for democracy.
He explained how little influence we have from the outside and that we will take a Principled Stand, he musta said it three or four times so we all know it’s true.
If only we could take this same principled stand in regards to Iraq. Hmm.
I believe those weapons are not “for conventional warfare with India” they are for conventional warfare with US troops in the region.
g.d., I hope I am wrong this time…..
GordonM @ 185
I’m urban…the ones around me like to fiddle with their guns on their front porches and complain about the N’s moving into the neighborhoods. I don’t enquire about their affiliation with the NRA, but they do have the decals on their trucks.
Millineryman @ 23
I’m thinking that’s why Bush refuses to even discuss bringing back any troops from Iraq. He wants and needs them out of the country so his Blackwater Storm Troopers can take out what’s left of the military if they cause problems when martial law is declared.
If Bush/Cheney is actually thinking about this power play look for Iraq troop surges late in 2008 or putting troops on the ground in Iran. Either scenario would further lessen the resistance our military could mount to Blackwater.
If martial law scenario does happen, what happens if our military does try to come home in an effort to put down in what is in essence a coup? Blackwater vs. Military or Blackwater/Bush Military Supporters vs. Military opposition?
Strange to be thinking of such things when I was raised to think that I lived in “The Land of the Free” and not a banana republic.
The only reason I think Bush will in fact go is his obvious physical deterioration on the job.
I say bring on the nuclear holocaust. After all, nuclear proliferation is a snowball rolling downhill, and neither the U.S., Britain, Russia, China, France, India, Pakistan, nor Israel (can we be sure? Snark) will EVER give up their militarily dominant positions, and so the development of true WMD goes on and on. My generation’s greed via consumerism has bled the planet nearly dry, and all signs are that ‘dry’ is not a metaphor, but a reality that future H. sapiens will have to endure.
So Bring It On! and let’s give the rest of the life on Planet Earth a fighting chance. IMHO a nuclear nightmare is inevitable anyway.