OK Someone posted this link downthread to the Edwards blog, accusing FDL of making Hillary the poster girl. I dont’ think this poster gets the subtlety of the positions here.

Someone in the comments asserts that Jane threatened to “boot” anyone that “piled on” Hillary.

Apparently there are some inveterate liars over n the Edwards blog.

Pete, I thought Whitehouse effectively smacked down Kyl on Fourth Amendment protections for US citizens abroad. Whitehouse is sharp. And yes, I also found this hearing riveting.

Prof. Foland — Yes, calling Reid’s office in support of the SJC bill is a good idea. Can’t hurt to keep the pressure on with that…

Am still trying to get time to read through the RESTORE Act to see if it is worth pushing as well, but I just have not had time as yet between the research and the phone calls.

Christy, thank you for all your good work. Just called Reid’s office, DiFI, and Boxer to support SJC version of the FISA bill.

Biodun at 10 — Why is there a need to blame anyone? This is arcane Senate procedure that will get sorted out via the parliamentarians and Sen. Byrd’s office, most likely, along with Sen. Reid’s office. Because it was an unusual situation, there aren’t ready answers.

But, in this case, the system of slow things down and really consider the implications that the Senate was designed to do worked perfectly. They slowed a very bad bill until enough back pressure had built up to correct it’s major flaws — and that is very good news for all of us.

Yes, I am struck by the gravitas and the drama of the moment, that the FISA bill is focussing debate on constitutional issues that reflect on our roots as well as affects the kind of country we want to be moving into the future.

perris @ 92elecom immunity is not a distraction, it is core.

reported in the new york times no less, republicans bolting from the party

all due to dick cheney;

have a look

Hey! Praedor Atrebates @ 85

Oh so WRONG! The civil lawsuits are the ONLY way we will ever get the required information on how extensive and illegal was the spying on Americans that Bush approved. It is the ONLY way we will force Telecoms and the Executive to obey the law or face the consequences. There must be consequences.

I want to know exactly what was collected, on whom, and what has been done with that illegally collected information. Further, I then want all the illegally-collected information to be absolutely purged by law. No records, not database, containing illegally-obtained information. There must be NO benefit to the Executive for their illegal activities.

T It helps support the absolute requirement that the 4th Amendment be strictly adhered to. No exceptions.

Yes I am a little excited by the possibilities myself. Imagine if Plame’s lawsuit was able to get off the ground as well.

1-anything less =Bupkes

Also a huge wildcard is going to be the inevitable Conference Committee completely done in secret with no public access and limited access depending on what leaks out to the rest of the House and Senate.

I just noticed that C-Span 3 was televising the SJC markup this morning, and I hope they repeat it tonight or over the weekend, but it’s not on their schedule now.

Cspan Schedule Friday, November 16, 2007

I strongly recommend everyone try to watch it. Maybe C-Span or some Senate site will put a feed up. If anyone knows a feed, I’d appreciate it, so I can watch all of it.

Most committee meetings are so full of specious posturing, a playing to the cameras with language better suited to Jane Austen’s novels, and often they are frankly boring.

This one is in some places riveting, particularly the extent to which Republicans are ready to put your Constiution and your 4th Amendment rights in the incinerator, not to mention all their colorful positions in bed with the major Teco companies. It also gives you an appreciation that Leahy, Feingold, and Dick Durban know precisely how much is at stake for this country and they seem to be fighting for it.

Cbolt has had some precient comments on drama and facade orchestrated in these committees to look one way to the voters when the outcome may be long ago decided on a previous thread. I sure hope what seems to be a good effort by SJC has a decent outcome. Jane Hamsher has a wonderful, healthy sense of consistent optimism and I admire it. I just wish I could share it here.

Dick Durban may not get in the news frequently, but he’s not missing anything as to the Republican manuevering and what’s at stake here and he’s always worth listening to. Durban’s comments on Senate Judiciary being held at arm’s length in questioning the government because the government uses the cloak of secrecy is very important. It’s a manuever that has been used in an unprecedented way during the Bush administration to classify information and prevent oversight questioning on topics that as Durban says, have no business being classified.

Additionally, the Telcos and White House still have in this bill unbridled wiretapping of any American if they trvel abroad not to mention people in other countries without any substantive reason whatsoever to target them.
I have to say, I would never trust Diane Feinstein ever after her performance as to this bill, and Jon Kyle gets my vote as one of the top 10 worst people and least intelligent people in the Senate.

The extent to which Feinstein and Specter wanted to rely on an en banc FISA court to actually stop a collection of data or wiretapping is truly naieve, wanting a presumption that the government is always right and there would need to be an appeal to an en banc FISA court to correct a government mistake. Unbelievable. Who would make the appeal on behalf of the target??? Who on earth?

There is also now language in this bill for some wiretaps to be conducted for 45 days before a warrant has to be procured. Also it’s amazing but hardly suprising to me to hear Orin Hatch argue for ongoing wiretapping and collection of information while a hypothetical “appeal process to an en banc FISA court” however that could possibly work on this planet, would take place.

This is a court that has almost never questioned a wire-tap warrent:

It is also rare for FISA warrant requests to be turned down by the court. Through the end of 2004, 18,761 warrants were granted, while just five were rejected (many sources say four). Fewer than 200 requests had to be modified before being accepted, almost all of them in 2003 and 2004. The four known rejected requests were all from 2003, and all four were partially granted after being resubmitted for reconsideration by the government. Of the requests that had to be modified, few if any were before the year 2000. In subsequent years, according to journalist Joshua Micah Marshall, the breakdown was as follows:[3]

Year Modified requests
2000 1 request modified
2001 2 requests modified
2002 2 requests modified (both modifications later reversed)
2003 79 requests modified (out of 1724 granted)
2004 94 requests modified (out of 1758)

On May 17, 2002, the court rebuffed then-Attorney General John Ashcroft, releasing an opinion that alleged that FBI and Justice Department officials had “supplied erroneous information to the court in more than 75 applications for search warrants and wiretaps, including one signed by then-FBI Director Louis J. Freeh”.[4] Whether this rebuke is related to the court starting to require modification of drastically more requests in 2003 is unknown.

On December 16, 2005, the New York Times reported that the Bush administration had been conducting surveillance against U.S. citizens without the knowledge of the FISC since 2002.[5] On December 20, 2005, Judge James Robertson resigned his position with the FISC, apparently in protest of the secret surveillance.[6] The government’s apparent circumvention of the FISC may also be related to the increase in court-ordered modifications to warrant requests.

Arlen Specter IMHO is never ever going to be your friend when it comes to civil liberties. He has done a considerable amount to take away your basic 4th Amendment rights already, and really hurt you with his advocacy of now sitting federal judges including those on the Supreme Court who ultimately support a Unitary Executive approach.

He wins my hot air facade award and he consistently does this with every important civil liberties issue or judicial confirmation.

msmolly @ 43

I’ve only been visiting the Lake for a few months, and I’ve learned more about current events than I ever knew in my entire life, and I’m nearly 65. My adult kids are very impressed!

Thanks to Jane, Christy, and all of the front pagers and thoughtful commenters for educating me (and sometimes amusing me). I just wish I had more intelligent comments of my own to contribute to the discussions.

Oops, this part is mine and shouldn’t have been in the quotes.

I had a thought last night that one good thing, quite possibly the only good thing to come out of the screaming horror that is the Bush administration, is us: a generation of educated, aware, civic activists.

note to self…preview

phred @ 36

Thanks go especially to you Christy and all the other fine people who post here and elsewhere in the blogosphere for keeping us up-to-date on what is going on in Congress. I cannot thank you enough for all that you do.

I had a thought last night that one good thing, quite possibly the only good thing to come out of the screaming horror that is the Bush administration, is us: a generation of educated, aware, civic activists.

I’ve only been visiting the Lake for a few months, and I’ve learned more about current events than I ever knew in my entire life, and I’m nearly 65. My adult kids are very impressed!

Thanks to Jane, Christy, and all of the front pagers and thoughtful commenters for educating me (and sometimes amusing me). I just wish I had more intelligent comments of my own to contribute to the discussions.